WGBH Radio; The Emily Rooney Show

From VH in Boston this is the Emily Rooney show. It's Tuesday rock Tober 4th 2011. I'm Steve Allman in for Emily Rooney. Five years ago the Boston band of the hills kidnapped my stereo with their majestic brand of high energy low five. Today we've got their fearless leader Ryan Walsh in studio with his guitar. Plus a new story collection men in the making is a searing examination of masculinity in the new millennium. We'll talk with its acclaimed author whose small heart. But first the Constitution has become a veritable fetish object in today's political discourse. But what's actually in the nation's most famous founding document law professor and author Jay Wexler promises it's a lot weirder than you think. Rocking writing and reexamining the constitution today on the Emily Rooney show right after the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying the Federal Reserve

chairman is on Capitol Hill urging lawmakers to be careful how much spending cuts they impose at a fear it will further weaken the U.S. economy. But Ben Bernanke he also told the joint economic committee today that eventually the country will have to reduce deficits by more than one and a half trillion dollars. That's a goal before a special bipartisan panel the Fed chief says the economy just isn't growing as quickly as the central bank had expected. Consumer behavior has both reflected and contributed to the slow pace of recovery. Households have been very cautious in their spending decisions as declines in house prices and in the value of financial assets have reduced household wealth and many families continue to struggle with high debt burdens or reduced access to credit. This is Fannie Mae is accused of knowing about a string of alleged foreclosure abuses but did nothing about it NPR's Jim Hawke reports on a government report out today that raises some serious questions about Fannie Mae's role in the country's

massive foreclosure crisis. The inspector general's report concludes that Fannie Mae knew about improper foreclosure practices by law firms as far back as 2003 but did not act to stop them. The report is the second in two weeks in which the inspector general has found lapses at both the Federal Housing Finance Agency and the companies that oversees Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The agency has acted as conservator for the two mortgage giants since they were taken over by the government in 2008. The inspector general's report says the Federal Housing Finance Agency binds to change its oversight policies by the end of next year. Jim Hawke NPR News Washington. Beijing is blasting a move by the U.S. Senate to make it easier to slap duties on Chinese exports. As NPR's Frank Langfitt tells us the long running debate on the value of China's currency is heating up again. China's foreign ministry said it firmly opposed the bill. The People's Bank of China said it viewed the legislation with quote deep regret. The Senate voted Monday to open debate on the measure which

is designed to punish China for not letting the value of its currency rise faster. Many economists say China keeps its currency artificially low. That makes Chinese exports cheaper and more competitive. And some U.S. politicians argue has ultimately cost American jobs. Beijing noted that it is already allowed its currency the renminbi to rise seven percent since June of last year. The Chinese government says the bill is driven by election year politics and won't solve problems such as America's low savings rate and high unemployment. Frank Langfitt NPR News Shanghai. A tentative contract reached between Ford and the United Auto Workers Union this morning calls for more than 50 700 new jobs at the automaker and nearly five billion dollars in vacs factory investment. At last check on Wall Street the Dow is down 80 points at ten thousand five seventy five This is NPR. It's not every day you want a Nobel Prize but today it's happened to astronomer Adam Riess. OH MY GOD I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. Just shocked.

He and two other American scientists Brian Schmidt and Saul Perlmutter are this year's winner of the Nobel Prize for Physics for discovering an accelerating universe. The Nobel committee says the team's work transformed our view of the world and of how it may end. Just another hour or so before smartphone users get to see the next generation of the iPhone. Daniel Carson reports Apple is expected to unveil its newest product at its offices in Silicon Valley. Company officials are tight lipped about today's news conference but in the hyper competitive industry of high tech consumer gadgets no one's taking any bets that Apple will unveil the fifth incarnation of its iPhone. The rumor mill is buzzing with speculation about what it will look like. It could have a larger touchscreen and faster processor than its predecessor. But one analyst says there's not a lot of room for game changing innovations. The event could be a milestone of another sort if CEO Tim Cook makes the announcement without Steve Jobs who resigned in August.

But no one is ruling out that the former CEO could make a cameo appearance. For NPR News I'm Danielle Karson in Washington. Eighteen days and counting for anti Wall Street demonstrators who have been camped out in cities across the country. They're accusing corporations of profiting at the expense of average Americans millions of whom are out of work. Demonstrators are marching on Federal Reserve banks and they're expected to take to the streets for the rest of the week and bolster support online through streaming video. I'm Lakshmi Singh NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from CIT for less selling all callers of the Herman Miller air on chair on line including sit for a last true black on line at sit for last. Dot com. It's live and it's local. Coming up next two hours of local talk the Emily Rooney show and the callee Crossley Show only on WGBH. Good afternoon you're listening to the Emily Rooney show I'm Steve Almond in for Emily Rooney.

The Constitution of the United States has become a kind of holy talisman to modern politicians and political movements. So much so that our current Congress embraced as its first official duty reading every word of the document into the record. Our next guest Jay Wexler was one of the few people who probably watched that entire stunt on C-SPAN. Wexler is a law professor at Boston University and the author of a fascinating new book The odd clauses understanding the Constitution through ten of its most curious provisions and it examines the Constitution what he calls the Constitution's benchwarmers understudies unsung heroes and crazy uncles it is I promise you a way funnier and more compelling than any book about the Constitution has a right to be Che Wexler welcome. Thanks for having at least. So I assume you were you had the big bowl of popcorn and we're just camped out watching John Boehner and the rest of them read the Constitution. It was it was glorious. I cheered I cried. You know I love it. You know you say in your introduction to this book though I studied a good deal of

constitutional law during my three years in law school I graduated without knowing anything about most of our founding document. How could that be. That's right because most of the time in law school that you that you study constitutional law you're studying a couple key clauses like the equal protection clause the First Amendment about free speech the due process clause the stuff that gives rise to the right to privacy in Roe versus Wade. All very important things obviously. But that's not all that's in the Constitution so you learn a lot about those few things. And then there's a whole bunch of stuff you don't even know is in there. Yes so how did you become interested in these more esoteric parts of the Constitution. What happened was after law school ended up a couple years after law school working at the Justice Department in an office called the Office of Legal Counsel it's a small little office. It's the office that long long after I left issued the torture memo. Yes I was nowhere near the office at the time. And what we did at that in that office was we looked at legislation to see if there were constitutional problems we

made recommendations to executive branch offices about constitutional issues. And it turns out that there are a lot of parts of the Constitution that the executive branch deals with that never make it to any court and so they were there for me never make it to law school but are nonetheless an extremely important so I was there in that office and talking I'm working about. These cause all the time and I thought one day it would be great to write a book about clothes that no one's ever heard of and don't know the people don't know anything about. So give us an example of an odd clause or not clause with the first clause in my book is called the in compatability clause and it says that if you're a member of Congress you can also be an executive officer. So that's why there's nobody who's in the Senate and is also secretary of agriculture for example. I mean there are some people like for example maybe the senator from Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown is a senator is also in the National Guard as an as a JAG officer and that's a little questionable perhaps. But but for the most part you don't see members of Congress also serving in the executive branch and it's a very important separation of powers

provision that I don't think people know about except for when people are opponents of separation of powers and there are opponents of separation of powers because after all separation of powers is sort of a drag. You know it's hard. If you could start to get stuff through when there are so many separate of the powers are all over the place and so. So we learn it every single day here in America right. Exactly and so if somebody doesn't like separation of powers the first thing they attack is the in compatibility clause. But so far it's made it and still there it still usually works. All right what about pirates. It's been on my mind since I read your book. Talk me through Pirates. Well people love pirates in America. You know we say our a lot. And the other day I think was National Talk Like A Pirate Day and there's that this Facebook pirate setting. Yes. I don't really know but we used to fight pirates through with privateers in the United States back in the 18th century. The Congress or maybe the executive branch would give something called a letter of marque or reprisal to a private boat to go

out and fight pirates and then bring the money back and the pirates if they're alive back to the to the United States and then they would divide up the money. That's the way we fought pirates back then because we didn't have a standing navy. We haven't issued a letter of marque since the War of 1812 but now in recent years we have this new Somalian pirate problem as we know and it wasn't that long ago that Ron Paul suggested maybe we ought to bring back letters of marque. And so instead of sending our own navy boats and our Navy SEALs out there and spending millions of dollars as a Navy we we just we authorized some private sort of Rambo type to go out and fight the Somali pirates themselves. Well you think about how the wars have been conducted. In fact there's been a tremendous amount of private industry I mean that's really essentially who's who's who's supplying the troops you know making sure they're fed they have all the American amenities over there and oftentimes even providing security. Those are of a sort a kind of you know they're contracted by the United States but

they're essentially analogous to what a Letter of Marque would be they just don't involve the pirate. That's right and that's makes all the difference really. You put it on the Seasteading and somehow it becomes exotic. There's a parrot. So I'm also interested you talk in the book about the symposium that was held some years ago in which legal scholars were sort of asked to name the most absurd clause in the Constitution and sort of the hottest of the odd and I since I read that do you have a nomination I mean you talk about some very odd esoteric stuff all throughout this I've heard obviously of none of these things. What's the oddest of the odd clauses for you. I think the artist has to be the third amendment. But but the famous third of many and everybody at home already knows the 30 minute but just for fresh air. Let the well you know I misquoted or what I want to be careful because even I sometimes forget what it is but it's the thing about how the Army. I love it the thing about you know you know that thing that after the second before the war so the soldiers can't be can't quarter themselves army

soldiers can't quarter themselves in people's houses during peace time without consent basically with the third and I love it it's great. There was a guy Jon Stewart called Bear rallied a little while ago who is who is dressed as a Third Amendment supporter. I don't I actually don't remember what happened but there was a drone is a funny picture about somebody he's like bring back the Third Amendment. I love it you can imagine but of course one of the points you make in the book is that a lot of these things the you know marque and reprisal clause that you mention about Pires these are all sort of vestigal they speak to what the real politic in the geopolitics were. In you know the 17th century in the 18th century not what we think of as sort of modern governance but that stuff was all had to be very carefully considered and you know the fascinating question for me as you look at the sort of fetishization of the the the Constitution you look at kind of the political landscape and how people say oh the Constitution it's this vital thing it's really almost become like a brand or a badge of

legitimacy. What do you make of that knowing that there's so much in the Constitution that really just isn't at the moment anyway really relevant to you know modern governance and how complicated the country has become. Yeah it's strange how the Constitution is used in public discourse and the whole read the Constitution on the floor in the Tea Party taking back the Constitution kind of thing. When I wrote what I realized when I was writing this book is that somehow knowing the Constitution and focusing on the Constitution and its text and its words and its language is somehow now for some reason a conservative thing like it's the thing that you've got to do if you're conservative as though liberals don't care about the Constitution or don't think about the Constitution or don't find the constitution important I don't honestly understand what why that is. I'm no social you know observer of any acuteness or anything so I don't really know why that is but but it is the case and so one of the reasons I wanted to write this book and I'm very very clearly you know liberal throughout the book.

And I wanted to take back these weird clauses take back the text of the Constitution and say this is not just a conservative thing it's something that everybody should care about and something that we should talk about as a society generally I think. If you're just joining us I'm Steve Allman I'm joined by Professor Jay Wexler was the author of the odd clauses in examination some of the most curious provisions in the Constitution and you are of course listening to WGBH Radio online at WGBH dot org. Jay would you read just to give us a little sample of maybe a juicy little tidbit from the book. I'll read one paragraph here. There's been a lot of prohibition is big these days because of the Ken Burns special that just went on. And one of my chapters is about the 21st Amendment which repealed the prohibition prohibition was from the 18th Amendment the 21st Amendment has two sections or two important sections the first section is the one that everybody knows that repealed prohibition but there's also Section 2 and that's what my chapter is about so here's a paragraph. Section 1 of the 21st Amendment is clear as a bell but what about section two. The transportation or importation

into any state territory or possession of the United States for delivery or use they're in of intoxicating liquors in violation of the laws thereof is hereby prohibited. Probably the oddest thing about the section is that it directly regulates the behavior of private parties rather than the government. Every other provision in the Constitution except for one tells the government what it can or must or cannot do. If you haven't thought about this before you might want to find the constitution on line and skim through it. We thought about reprinting it as an appendix at the end of the book but that would have added one dollar to the price of the book. Your welcome notice how just about never does the Constitution place any limit on individuals or other private actors like associations or corporations or religious groups or anyone else. The only two exceptions are Section Two of the twenty first amendment and Section 1 of the 13th Amendment which prohibits slavery. This unique feature of the 21st Amendment led Harvard professor Laurence Tribe probably the preeminent scholar in the U.S. Constitution to nominate Section 2 as the Constitution's stupidest clause. So so why is he saying it so stupid though because it would deign to regulate

you know the behavior of citizens as opposed to government functions. Yeah I think what he's saying is that the Constitution is about limiting. It's about constituting and limiting the government not about in private individuals. And the one time that makes an exception for that is for the most important thing there is right to stop slavery. Oh and then there's also the thing about bringing some beer over state lines in violation of state law there's also that thing there's the antislavery in that don't party to hard laws of the Constitution. Exactly. Well you know the another chapter that really struck me as especially odd was the title of nobility clauses where you take us through that a little bit. Right. The the the framers of the Constitution really hated this idea that they would be hereditary titles. Looking at it England and such and they thought it was a very anti equality kind of practice and so they made it very clear that the government of the United States would not give out titles of nobility and that government officers will not accept titles of nobility from foreign

countries because they wanted it was. It was an equality provision I think in it. You know we don't have dukes in the United States and that was very important and we still have those provisions today in fact that was the provision when I was working at the Justice Department that first got me to think of first trigger this idea of the book. Clinton was in Africa and there was some question about whether he could accept the tribal something or something. And there was one of my colleagues was like well can you accept this thing it wasn't the titles in the closet nobody knew and I didn't even know it was in there. And I thought wow this is becoming kind of cool thing to write about. And in essence you know Norman Schwarzkopf acted unconstitutionally by being knighted by the Queen of England could it's quite possible I mean we have a lot of knights but the officers who have become knights but they've all been like military officers but they have all been retired when they accept the knighthood from from from the queen. Schwarzkopf was not retired he was in active service at the time he got the knight knighthood from the queen and so this is a pretty significant question about whether that was constitutional.

Right so you know again I don't know a lot of people who'd like to actually go up to Norman Schwarzkopf and be like hey dude sorry you know that I'm going to take away your scepter but. You know what I love about the book and this is true of your first book Holy hullabaloo which was about sort of the church church state division one as it pertained to religious controversies is that you're able to take these very esoteric legal concepts and as we just heard right about them in a way that is totally approachable and colloquial and what I love about that is that rather than viewing the constitution or other legal documents as these kind of arcane matters that only legal eggheads should be thinking about in their daily lives. You really argue that they're relevant to essentially they're not only relevant to our lives but really teach us where we came from and who we were as a country when the Constitution was written and as you were talking about whether the Constitution is liberal or conservative the way has been championed by conservatives. I can only think about the originalists on the Supreme Court and the way in which that has seemed to you know Scalia and Thomas and the other strict originalists who are saying almost like a religious person to say the Bible is the text it tells you everything. They're essentially looking at the Constitution in that

way. Are you an originalist do you consider yourself. I don't consider myself an originalist I think that's a really good analogy that. The way we read the Constitution and the way we read the Bible or other fundamental religious documents is quite quite. We have the same kinds of arguments about both and we have people who are originalist and textualist to look at the language and try to understand what that language meant and 17 whatever or you know 300 or whatever and then there are other people who believe these documents are living documents that they evolve over time that we have to have people who are to use judgment in law it's judges who can interpret these provisions and make them make sense to our current situation and I think I'm with in that camp. And I'd like to do my little part to try to explain what I think of the interesting parts of the Constitution to people who would otherwise not you know learn about it because they don't want to open a giant. Legal to deny That's right. You have just described me and I probably most of our listeners the book is the odd clauses

understanding the Constitution through ten of its most curious provisions. And my guest has been Jay Wexler the famous law professor and part time pirate as I understand once in a while once in a while on weekends thank you for coming in. Constitutional scholars lawyers historians readers of history we'd love to get your take on this one of the parts of the Constitution that strike you as odd. E-mail us at Emily Rooney show at WGBH dot org and let us know or visit us on the web at WGBH dot org slash Emily Rooney where you can link to our Facebook and Twitter pages. We're going to take a short break and when we continue a new collection of stories that explores masculinity and its Discontents if you've ever wondered what makes men tick and sometimes go boom. Stick around you might just find out. I'm Steve Allman and you're listening to the Emily Rooney show. Stay with us. WGBH programs exist because of you. And the Museum of Science where you can experience the new exhibit a day in Pompei open now the Museum of Science is

proud to support the Nova Radio minute weekday mornings here on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. And Boston Private Bank and Trust Company Boston private bank provides private and commercial banking and investment management and trust services to individuals and businesses. You can learn more by visiting Boston private bank dot com. And Ken Burns prohibition tonight's conclusions he's the good intentions of the ban on alcohol backfire and the era draws to a close watch. A nation of hypocrites on prohibition. Tonight at 8:00 on WGBH to. Go the next FRESH AIR we talk with Michael Lewis about his new book Boomerang Travels in the New Third World. It's about how several European countries got to the verge of default. Included in this new third world he writes about is the state he lives in California. Lewis is also the author of Moneyball in Liar's Poker. Join us. This afternoon at two on eighty nine point seven of a new TV age.

In honor of Ken Burns new PBS series prohibition. Eighty nine point seven would like to propose a toast Here's to the thousands of donkeys each to stand to support this stage. Rough year by making gifts in monthly installments it automatically renews. Thanks to you. This program is being broadcast on eighty nine point seven fundraiser for free. If you'd like to join the 8 8 8 8 9 7 9 4 2 4 to securely online WGBH dot org insights ideas and opinions about issues we did here in Boston who is now the park manager at the Cape Cod Canal says trails were under construction bicycles horses and off road vehicles. Local issues local talk Boston Public Radio. Welcome back you're listening to the Emily Rooney show I'm Steve Allman last year blues marred its debut novel the wake of forgiveness won rave reviews. And last month it was named a finalist for the

pen USA literary prize. His follow up a suite of stories called Men in the making is already well in readers and critics. Esquire has listed the collection among its Best Books recommendations for Fall 2011. I picked up the book One evening a few months ago and didn't put it down again until I had read all 10 stories. My heart's characters are not the happy go lucky type they're generally hardworking guys who find themselves. Overwhelmed by the demands of modern masculinity he renders them in prose that is both plain spoken and lyric and best of all whatever trouble he gets his leading men into. He never allows them to dodge from the truth of who they are we are just delighted to have Bruce smart with us this afternoon. Welcome Bruce. Thanks for having me Steve. Absolutely now I just want folks to hear the voices of these stories so would you start just by reading the opening of the first story where you began. Sure. Sad to say but dogs get killed sometimes. Take a city like Houston for a million people and all those cars. Sometimes it's bound to happen. But if you're like I used to be it doesn't

bother you so much. Anyway before this is over there's one less dog in the world. So in case you're not like I was fair warning. But if you're like I used to be when your fiance of five months gets home from a day of slaving for that lawyer downtown the guy who cuts her a check twice a month for the privilege of telling her what to do and watching her cleavage go red with splotches the way it does sometimes when she's flustered when she makes it through the door and finds you scribbling Your latest on a legal pad. Still in your boxers with the newspaper untouched on the porch and it's plastic wrap. The classified still tucked inside without a single job listing circled and went a few minutes later she comes half naked and frowning into the hallway as red faced an eager for evening shower as would be a farm wife after bleeding the hawg. You know your history. Yes. What I love about your writing in general and your stories in particular is that you're writing about a

population that isn't represented doesn't seem to be represented a whole lot of fictions represented a ton in the popular culture. You know we get the you know Joe six pack you know a kind of version of. Underemployed or underpaid or even out of work humiliated working class guy with with money problems and woman problems and spiritual problems but they are really flattened out in popular culture and what I love about your stories is you really kind of burrow into what's happening inside them and it's very complex and very sad. Yeah well I think I think for some reasons that's why I write you know trying to write stories about these kinds of guises for one I was surrounded with them my whole life in a blue collar kid worked my way through school and visited a lot of lumber mills and chemical plants and refineries and and whatnot and just ran into all of these wonderful sort of big hearted men who are out there. But once in public whether at work until you get to know them a little bit there's just this

veneer this veneer of sort of hard edged masculinity and maybe the myth those of masculinity is just as and AMOLED as the myth those of being a Texan and when you put the two together you know God help us. So I think that's why I started investigating these guys because on a one on one level just a human level they seem so much like me. But then when two of them are in a room together you get the same thing that you get on the commercials on television these days where the guy is the oaf the guy is sort of the insensitive the guy's sort of impervious to his own emotions or vulnerabilities. Right. Interesting I mean essentially these stories. Like a good short story should really capture these guys at these crucial moments you could hear it in that opening. I mean this guy is Dunn his fiance is done with him. And I think that's really what I admire so much the reason I read this story so quickly was because there was no sense of a day in the life.

This is just a slice of life this was the particular moments in these guys lives where everything seems to pivot or change right it's not it's not so much for me the the slice of life as it is I think Flannery O'Connor are probably I may be mis attributing this but I think Flannery O'Connor said that stories are about the day that is different not any slice of life but the most important the pivotal. I like to I like stories that risk melodrama for the sake of drama and stories that hinge on some of the pivotal moments in a life not necessarily just one interesting moment. I want to as wrenching as it is one of my favorite stories in the book and I should mention that there's a story in their monuments which is which is very delicate beautiful story in its own way. Hopefull I want to make people believe that this is just a grim book. I found that story in the stories in general very I felt more alive after reading them but. But they're tough stuff. You're not shying away from it and I wanted to hear just a little bit of what you're walking around without the story what you're walking around with that and then I want to talk

about where that story came from because it is so striking. In the last 10 years if you've lived within 100 miles of Houston along the southwest corridor of Highway 59. And in that time you've had a breast removed or both or you've had a hysterectomy or a lumpectomy or a swollen purple mole dug from your skin. Then this is true. Whatever your surgeon cut out of you spend some time with Dean Kovan in his car. Yeah. If you're just joining us you're listening to Radio online at WGBH that organ Steve Almond and I'm joined by author Bruce my heart we're talking about his latest book of stories men in the making. And that haunting passage was from the story what you're walking around with out which is about this fellow whose job it is to pick up body parts as a medical courier I guess is the term is the technical term. Where did that story come from.

Well I mean I wait for two ideas to kind of converge I think all good stories have two stories sort of. Intersecting it in some way and when I was very young man working my way through undergraduate school I worked I worked on an oil rig for a while a drilling rig not a production rig. The drilling rig guys tend to think they're earthier and more more blue collar than the production guys who are just checking you know gauges and turning valves but there was this strange moment where we were asked to go down into what are called these void tanks which are basically just these empty tanks filled with air that keep the thing afloat when they jacked the rig down and it was terrifying just scared the bejesus out of me to be down there in the sort of labyrinth of darkness and because of the very term in fact the verb Jack is terrified of the whole thing I test would be how you know for you exactly. So I was sort of waiting like where am I going to and I know Im going to use this story and know Im going to use this personal experience and and I just never found it just nothing ever resonated with it very well

for me so years later after graduate school to make a little extra money I took a job that just. The only benefit of it was that I could smoke while I did it. It was a heavy smoker at the time so I was driving around in my car and it and the hours were right and what it was was a medical courier route and so what I would do is just wait for the dispatcher to tell me where to go. Usually a rural environment a rural hospital rural clinic pick up biopsy samples blood and urine specimens these kinds of things and then take it back to the major hospitals or the laboratories in Columbus Ohio where I happen to be living at the time I set the story in Texas because I know that best but. But then there was just this one awful day when I got this job that they sent just a few words over the pager and it said dedicated which meant it's a dedicated job. It pays really well because you're not stopping anywhere else along the way. And then it said fetal demise and it took me a while to figure out what exactly it was and to realize that my

cargo was going to be. You know the body of the stillborn child and it changes the way you do the job there was no smoking on the way back with that. You know what that little body in the back of my Toyota. Yeah and I mean it it's interesting you showed the patients I guess I admire the patience you showed I mean I I assume it took some years to kind of process both of those experiences because I should explain that. Dean COLVIN The protagonist of that story is is a medical courier because he's had an accident on a rig right. Yeah. So a great deal of my process if you want to call it a process sort of the void tank of processes I guess but I'm just waiting for two things to kind of connect with me to resonate. I've always got lots of story ideas. I'm just waiting for the two to find each other. Right. And you write a lot. Also this is a collection that's full of stories that are really are about work or work is in trickle to them. And that's interesting because we we don't see a lot of work stories in the literary landscape. Probably because

most of us as writers are essentially lazy and sit around in our underwear a lot of times like what work what's that right. But but but this is men in the making the making part of it is no mistake these are guys who are generally speaking either at work or just done with work. Right. I think you know. I used to read these stories like you read a story by fantastic moving powerful story but you know something by a master like Henry James and at the end of it you're just like. What these guys do right. Why is everybody have so much time on his hands. To me that was not my life it was not my world and for the vast majority of us that's not our lives. So it's important to me to show you know what these men do when they're at work but also what the work requires of them and how manhood in some ways and I don't I'm not terribly activated in terms of my sort of gender politics. I didn't write these stories thinking I'm going to have something to say about what it means to be a man. I think I wrote the stories because I was full of questions about what it means to be a man and that's that's sort

of why I write part of that is what why are we you know why are men so different when they're surrounded by other men at work doing this sort of you know especially sort of rough work manual work work that you know sort of manly in nature. And then we go home and you know we sort of baby talk our wives baby talk our children. I'm interested in those all of those different manifestations right that's what you're interested in not allowing men to become sealed off essentially. And the stories really expose some of think about the way in which so many of the characters are haunted in these stories. Among the living amidst the trees is the story that is really haunted by this. Murder of James Byrd several years ago in Jasper Texas can you talk a little bit about that story. Ever wrote that story right. Right after those murders occurred and I just kept I kept hearing on the radio especially in Texas where I got a lot of local coverage as well as the big national coverage that I commenced in the weeks after that murder of how just vilified the whole town seemed to be and I think we've seen some of the same things going on

here lately in the news with certain places but it's just I've been to Jasper That's east Texas that's known as the piney woods there's a lot of lumber business there. And just like any small rural town that's just full of a bunch of sweet people and you know waitresses at the diner who call you hon and sweetheart when they've never met you. And it's it seemed to me for me. It harkens back to that great Eudora Welty story where is the voice coming from where she's able to. I think that's the title where she's able to inhabit the body and the voice and the persona of the killer of Medgar Evers. And she wrote that story before before the killer was even apprehended. And so I'm interested in the way a whole towns places landscapes are altered by the perception of a person or two people or you know half a dozen people who may live there. That's right and the infamy becomes the story in a sort of modern media

sort of spectacle that town Jasper Texas is forever full of white supremacists who dragged by I mean by and there I don't think you could say Jasper Texas I don't think you could say Laramie Wyoming you know without you know the immediate association. Right right. This question might be a little difficult but I wonder if it is frustrating for you knowing that you're writing these stories that are these really careful and emotionally charged examinations of a place like Jasper particular you know somebody who works in an oil rig or is a medical courier is just scraping by. Is there any frustration in the idea that those people aren't necessarily going to find the stories. Do you know what I mean. Yeah I'm not sure because I never had a clear sense of who I'm writing for I think you know I write for me. Like if I had something to teach or I thought I had something to say I probably wouldn't write because I'm pretty darn lazy. I write because I have questions that I need to sort of mull through. I will say that I've had the chance to read some in Texas and I've read it not just

weathers. It's not far from Jasper and Alex Ville which is the tiny little capital town. You know the sort of county seat of Lavaca County where my first book was set and it is especially rewarding to read for people who are probably not spending much of their disposable income at the bookstore and to see that. You know the language the story has an effect right. It's just a matter of for them it's just a matter of priorities right. That's essentially what I want to say. Not to cast any group any population a particular way just to me it's one of the tragedies of the fact that we've gone from a literary to a visual culture is that people literature is about telling people stories in a very basic way. And you do that so admirably in this collection and it's my hope that people will find it not just who are already converted readers you know but who are guys who might recognize themselves in important ways on the pages of the book. I hope so too but they be all my privilege.

Well Bruce Hart is the author of the brilliant new story collection men in the making Please go out and get it. Check our website we'll have a link to the book as well as the wonderful novel the wake of forgiveness. We're going to take a short break when we continue the man who kidnapped my stereo with his band Hello you the hills and the majestic brand of high energy low fi pop is here in studio with his guitar and a standup bassist That's right. October is over rock Tober is about to begin You're listening to the Emily Rooney show on Steve Almond. Stay with us. This program is on WGBH thanks to you. And UMass Memorial Medical Center and their uro gynecology team specializing in surgical and nonsurgical solutions for urinary incontinence and other pelvic floor disorders. White papers online at UMass Memorial dot org slash for women. And the New Bedford Symphony Orchestra presenting Brahms a German Requiem featuring the Rhode Island College chorus with soprano Kelley Nazif and baritone

Philip Lee Mock Sunday October 16th online at New Bedford symphony dot org. And Bancroft school serving families in Metro West in central Massachusetts with a commitment of respecting nurturing and encouraging children grades K through 12. You can discover Bancroft at their open house October 16th at 1 Bancroft school dot org. This Iranian born singer is on a mission to sing what can't be sung inside Iran now because the music is banned it's not. But because Iranian women are forbidden to perform such songs and albums because I can. If somebody is inside Iran they can't as a woman then I've got to do that. How singing became an act of rebellion. One Iranian woman story next time on the world. Coming up at 3:00 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH a true story of murder and mayhem. As only PBS can tell us some of the leading judges use the stuff they talk about me not being on the legitimate nobody alcopop prohibition. A new documentary series from Ken

Burns of Nova continues tonight at 8:00 on WGBH to support eighty nine point seven of the sustaining gift of just over eight dollars a month and will say thanks to the prohibition on Blu ray or DVD secure copy online at WGBH the latest local news headlines are as close as your smartphone with the new WGBH app. A single tap takes you up to date with headlines from business to arts and culture. Just a free download away at the App Store or learn more at WGBH dot org. Welcome back you're listening to the Emily Rooney show that sweet riot of noise in the background you're hearing it right now is the band how little of the hills they've been making music for most of their lives and records as a band for the past five years I got to hold their debut disc collective psychosis be gone some years back and it immediately went into heavy rotation in the

Allman household. I was captivated by the band strange blend of the dreamy and down home by the beautifully odd lyrics of songwriter Ryan Walsh the band has gone on to release two more records and they toured the country more times than they probably want to remember. Lucky for us they always have to come back to the Boston area and so we're delighted to have Ryan Wallace with us this morning along with his standup bassist Nicholas Ward I mean by this both that Nicholas is a stand up guy and also that he has brought a very large and somewhat intimidating stand up bass Welcome gentlemen. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So you can tell there are big talkers folks All right. Let's let's hear a hallelujah the hills original from the forthcoming record which I just learned the title of the forthcoming hypothetical that I just got in the row time I was trying to describe what it could be. But now that you suggest it could be the title I'm kind of hooked on that. All right let's let's hear track what's it called. Well we're going to do introductory Saints. Perfect first perfect. Here we go.

Just. He said forever. Soon we can talk about the songs of the. Song for. Some. Reason. It's true for you all to become something. Significant. You can reconstruct the past with the cilia and. Plans to. Move. 0. 0. 1 0 1 0 0 but. The. Doctors say. See. You both sad. Scenario my. Dear. I am the Salk book ever. And Don I want to go swallow the smoke. Smoke. Come. See what showed up in. This very. As you called it.

And the last thing we need is say you know. Did you marry. Me. That's supposed. To. Be you. Know. So who gets through got. More. Gun something to say control. Then you'll remember oh you're. Trying to. Be here because. We. Are talking. To. Our phones what Oberg. Into. Dark news sad news. Do you or the secretary you know my theory. I am the sorrow whatever. Soon. Die or knows more the smoke. You love saying cheerio. My insecurities the

sorrow whatever sick and dark I wanna swallow swallow says. That. You. See A. Scenario in my security. Now I'm sorry whatever you say. And I want a small a small. One a small a small. You are listening to WGBH Radio online at WGBH dot org. I'm Steve Almond in for Emily Rooney That was how low you the hills singer and songwriter Ryan Welsh along with Nicholas Ward his stand up bassist The song was introductory stage saints and I'm just going to go ahead and claim the title the czar of whatever it takes. I yeah I feel like I'm seizing it from you. That's the title of nobility I think. Oh yeah it ties into the Constitution it's a constitutional issue. You know that is a forcible seizure.

I feel like the combination of your first two guests kind of put the Constitution together with men's issues and you kind of get the whole songs. Right. There's an occasional dose of tiny towns in Texas. Yeah. Right right absolutely and a beer too you're rocking a beard over here not visible on radio but both of you have got really significant and impressive facial hair. The music and I don't say that lightly gentlemen. The music is is fantastic. What does what do you do when people ask you to describe it because I hear so many different things. What do you do Ryan when somebody says oh you're going to be in stuff do you play. Yeah well the terrible thing is to list other bands no one wants to do it so I have found that a good trick or John is to list the instruments we have in the band. So I just say bass track. But cello keyboard samples drums and I just list every little horn. You just go on I've lost everything in the band and one time a journalist listen to me and he goes he

listen all that He paused and goes. Name a John rock music. Yeah. Listen pal don't you go mixing those genres but this must be something that you encounter all the time because the hills music in the stairs before that you guys sort of were part of a band called the stairs in it. Some members made it to the hills. Really. You know you can call it pop music but it's got a lot more in it you could say Americana and you could say folk and you can make a whole list of genres but what is interesting about it for me is that it defies easy categorization. Well that's a tremendous compliment and I think that's something I aim for. To try to you know try to get something new on the page right. And it's that's it's law. It sounds lofty Yeah but but you're the sort of whatever it takes right to do those things I make it like I am Those are weird weird is the word is the name as a silly question but what is

the name of the band come from. Well we stole We stole the name from art. You don't say steal. We know you're an artist so you appropriated it appreciated for it it's not. It's going to be an art film shot in Vermont in the 60s called Holly the hills which after a long list of band names I just grabbed and the filmmaker who made the film go to the title filmmaker thanks anyway. A few years ago his He's a professor now or was sorry he passed away but his assistants email me says Adolphus knows about the band and he's going to sue. I love it and there's like the least lucrative lawsuit of all time and he was committed then he is assisting convinced him it was a loving tribute and there was no money to be had. Yeah loving tribute He's probably like yeah yeah kid I'm a filmmaker I need I need to go well there's no doubt they're all right. I was a little disappointed actually I feel like that lawsuit could have done wonders for us right.

Congress celebrity showstopper. Yes right well workroom theatrical. I see you guys this potentially rather than offering testimony you would just actually put on your instruments and do a musical rendition of your testimony. Yeah we'll sing our way out of this one. I want to do most problems. Now you guys spend a fair amount of time I know you've been in the studio and in fact you've got to tell the story of what's going on with the with the with the forthcoming hypothetical the new record because there are freaks like me and there will be an increasing number of freaks if anybody hears this beautiful music on the radio today who are going to want to know when the new record is coming out. What has been the genesis of this project. Well we decided we put two albums out on a label and then this time we needed to do fan funded projects with that website Kickstarter to raise funds to record it ourselves which is something that a lot of bands small and large are doing more and more. So that was a learning experience and really fun. And then it ended up getting picked up by a label.

So how does it work you got to a certain level. So we're funding. Yeah we record it we're mixing it now. We we get some label interest for like that. That solves a lot of these problems and and indicative of the state of the music industry. They closed up shop last week because of the label the label Yeah. Yeah. And you know how to pick up. Yeah. Or maybe they know how to pick you. Wow so what is that where does that put things put things where we were good stories where I don't know that we are going to mix it and then figure out what to do. It's a forthcoming hypothetical Steve and it is a forthcoming Well on that note I feel like we need to send out the call this is a vast and very wealthy listenership. I must say I hear they're all loaded and most of the record producer So let's hear let's hear another tune. I would love to hear another song from The Hills or at least Brian Walsh from man singer man to songwriter and yes to 6 that's right.

We could even break it down further and say one third. I didn't know you were also good at math. Well it's one of the things they give you a small math test before they let you at the big mike All right so let's. So this song is from the next album and it's called Call off your horses. Come on. Come. Back you'll see. Q Where did those shows the Iraq vote.

Thrill of Marvel turned. Me into. Some call all your horses song. Sing out names of great. Razzo from whence you can. Come back to. Me in low room holds I've. No right. To see the hood shoot force of below you vision. The birth of. Man in the now reach you'll. Come with. Me. Don't think too long. Marta now smh.

Miss you. But don't mind them if the North Koreans. You. Would. See it go. Would. Call all the horses song. Seeing our. Means of. GRACE. Ross all the way. To. Come back to me a load. Of mostly. Gold No more song. Senior. Names the. Brain. Was old. When she. Came back. Through Marino arrived without it. Remember.

Remember her. Wow I love it. The dramatic and abrupt cessation of song that was beautiful Ryan Welsh Nicholas Ward Bryan waltz the singer and the guitarist Nicholas word on the extremely large but quite beautiful actual stand up bass and two to six or one third of how the hills in studio with us today we're so delighted to have you guys and I have to ask what is the next step here I mean assuming that we do not get in the immediate million dollar phone call what do you take off. We do we do. Yes in fact you can go to jail. GBH data were again just to the Emily Rooney page or Facebook page or e-mail us even Emily Rooney show at WGBH dot org. So probably it will take 15 or 20 minutes before the million dollar pledge comes in. What do you do in the intervening time before you have actually made the million. What's the plan for getting the record out. Well we don't know yet. And that's that's going to be both

nerve wracking and fun because there's a Describe the fun part of that for me that would just be pure anxiety. Well there's so many ways that a record can come out now I remember when I first started making albums if at the end product wasn't shrinkwrapped jewel case CD. I didn't think it was a real release and that's no longer the case at all. You know people release albums on us be sticks or just online. No one knows what's going on and that's a fun area to be in. Well you like that. I mean really what's so amazing about how low the hills the music is you know that it's a band that is interested it seems to me in sort of dislocating the listener a little bit not a bad way but in a way you know it is an easily put into a particular genre especially when we hear all the instruments together there's a real strange beautiful kind of ambient sound that's happening it's very rooted in Americana and rock and you can certainly look at cognates but it's

also its own particular thing so I guess you have what we would call in the loop is the kind of negative capability to be able to sort of rally with that much of a change in the plan but I sure hope for my sake as a listener that you guys will you know put it out in some configuration because also the artwork and your previous records has been beautiful I do kind of like that physical artifact. Me too. Yeah. Yeah and you have a file collection right Nick. Oh yeah for sure. Yeah I record with no Helli of the hills albums and yet I know he'd love to weld it again. That is that is where the forthcoming hypothetical comes in. It has been great to have you guys in studio and you can hear a little bit of the music as we go out How are the hills. Ryan Walsh the front man singer guitarist in his stand up bass is Nicholas word thank you so much for being here. Do we get something wrong today did we get something right send us an email at Emily Rooney show at. WGBH dot org and let us know about it we're also on Facebook and Twitter and we check those pages constantly.

It's literally a compulsion and it's a sickness from GBH in a box that's actually going to do it for us this afternoon we'll be back tomorrow at noon with two of the great thinkers of our time. Deepak Chopra and Leonard I'm going to mispronounce his name a lot and there will be here to discuss the contentious but respectful clash of worldviews that emerged when an advocate for spirituality forge forged a friendship with a renowned physicist Stay with us now for the callee cross a show coming up next with a preview of tonight's Democratic Senate debate at UMass Boston Emily Rooney show is a production of WGBH radio on the web at WGBH dot org. Boston Public Radio Radio. I'm Steve Allman. Happy for October. 6. And she was.