WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley This is the Calla Crossley Show. Last week on how to virus became the first Latino mayor of Providence in many ways he is the poster child for the American dream. The son of immigrants from the Dominican Republic he grew up poor and made his way to Harvard and Georgetown School of Law. As the newly minted mayor his city is facing tough financial challenges this hour we talked to Mayor to virus about his path to politics. And what he'll do to make the American dream a reality for the citizens of Providence. From there we zoom out of the capital city and look at Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee has moved to rescind an executive order that cracks down on illegal immigrants. We in the hour with a look at the thousands of Sudanese refugees in New England who've been voting on whether or not southern Sudan should to see from the north. Up next three takes on. Politics and the immigrant experience. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying the public's hearing for the

first time from some of the family members of the victims in Saturday's shooting rampage in Tucson Arizona. Bell Hellmann's wife was among the 14 people injured when a gunman fired on a crowded shopping complex claiming six lives. Susie is going to be fine long term. Not sure she's going to be quite as active with all of her physical activities for a while she'll be in a walker for at least three months and. Serious physical rehab after that. But she's a tough strong woman and a survivor. He says his wife was holding hands with nine year old Christina Taylor Green who was killed in the shooting. Meanwhile doctors say Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords remains in critical condition but her sedatives are being scaled back. There's been additional There has not been additional swelling in her brain and she is breathing on her own Giffords was shot in the head allegedly by Jared Loughner who made his first court appearance yesterday on Capitol Hill NPR's Audie Cornish reports lawmakers are being advised to ask for more security when warranted.

Lawmakers are scheduled to be briefed in a bipartisan meeting this week on what other precautions they can take as they go forward with their own public meetings and events. Democrat and Washington D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton says there's no practical way for lawmakers to change what they do when it comes to dealing with constituents. The reason we are elected every two years. Is that the framers meant to us to get as close to the people responsible for them to God is one way they will judge us is is if they see us clean on the ground. Because they will think we are afraid of man. In the meantime legislative activity is on hold and congressional leaders are crafting resolutions to honor Giffords and the other shooting victims. Audie Cornish NPR News the Capitol. Verizon Wireless will begin selling its version of the iPhone early next month. NPR's Jim Zarroli reports a company made its much anticipated announcement this morning in New York until now consumers who wanted an iPhone could only get one through AT&T. But Verizon Wireless CEO Dan Meade said AT&T will now have competition for the first time.

Now wireless consumers everywhere. Have a choice a choice they've never had before. The revolutionary iPhone 4 on the nation's most reliable network the iPhone will be offered first to existing customers of Verizon Wireless on February 3rd. It will then be available in Apple and Verizon stores a week later. The price will start at $200 for customers who sign a two year service contract for eyes and said The phone will be available only over its 3G data network for the time being. But after next summer it will work over its faster 4G network. Jim Zarroli NPR News New York. Here's what's happening from Wall Street. Dow Jones industrial average up nearly 60 points at eleven thousand six hundred ninety seven and the Nasdaq is gaining fourteen points. It's at twenty seven twenty two. This is NPR News. Now that California Governor Jerry Brown has unveiled a budget to dig the state out of a 25 billion dollar hole legislators must grapple with a plan that includes deep cuts and a continuation of tax hikes. Jason Lopez has this from

San Francisco. Brown's plan to tax the debt essentially this way about half of it would be resolved with significant cuts to state services higher education and other programs. The other half would be paid for with taxes. The tone of the governor's 84 billion dollar budget is it's tough medicine that requires bipartisan support. Already Democrats have signaled an openness to cuts. But the crucial piece of the plan will be voter approval of an extension of temporary tax increases that expire July 1st. Republicans have indicated they want more cuts but may try to prevent a ballot measure to present the tax extension to California's voters. State legislators begin hearings on the budget on Thursday. For NPR News I'm Jason Lopez in San Francisco. Vice President Joe Biden says American troops could stay past the scheduled 2014 security handover if Afghanistan's government wanted that while visiting Kabul Biden told Afghan leader Hamid Karzai that while the U.S. is not in

Afghanistan to govern it will support the Afghan people in rebuilding. U.S. troops are scheduled to begin withdrawing from Afghanistan this July. Egyptian police have arrested a suspected. Assess back to cuse does killing a Christian man and wounding five others aboard a train today they say motive is unknown but the attack on a Christian underscores concerns of violence against religious minorities such as that committed against 21 Christians. Less than two weeks ago. This is NPR. Support for NPR comes from IBM working to help mid-sized businesses become the engines of a Smarter Planet. Learn more at IBM dot com slash engines. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley. This is the Cali Crossley Show last week on how to virus became the first Latino mayor of Providence Rhode Island. The city like so many in America today faces many challenges. He joins us now to discuss his

plans for the city and its citizens. Mayor to virus welcome. Thank you Kelly It's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you for having me. Yes congratulations to you. Thank you I appreciate it. That's what I like to start at the beginning with folks like yourself who have pledged themselves to public service. Why did you want to do this why did you want to be mayor. Well I think it's a opportunity to make a difference in people's lives and to really have an impact and something that I'm excited about doing and I've been fortunate and blessed to have had people in my life who have really taken an interest in me my education and want to see me succeed and have allowed me to accomplish things beyond my wildest dreams including becoming mayor of the city of Providence. And I want to make sure that other kids have that opportunity. My parents are immigrants. The American story. My parents are immigrants like so many of the immigrants who came before them and I was fortunate enough to be born in New York City and raised him Providence and I've been

I've been able to succeed and I'd like to make sure the other kids have that opportunity as well I think gay marriage gives me a chance to make a huge difference and succeed you have Harvard undergrad Georgetown School of Law. You were a judge in Providence you've held many other community positions your own law firm at one point. So you have been in fact quite successful. But now as mayor of Providence my goodness mayor that's a tough job in this economy. Rhode Island particularly we've done a number of stories with people from Rhode Island seem to have been hit with all kinds of financial issues. And I know that was central to your speech your inaugural speech. But just frame for us how you intend to face what is a huge challenge for Providence right now. Well I think I'm glad that you asked me about this I think well first of all in terms of framing it it's important to remember exactly what you said in the opening of the segment. You said like a lot of cities that like a lot of cities across the country were facing huge challenges

and I think that's the first thing is making it clear and I try to do that in my inaugural address making it clear that cities across the country are facing huge challenges and we're no different. So where this is part of the national issue in terms of the struggles of municipalities and here the state of Rhode Island we're not the only city in the state that's facing challenges by them. There are other municipalities that are facing challenges so that's the first thing I think that's very important the second thing is something we did today is I signed an executive order to review miscible finances in our city. I've got the former order to the general of our state someone who's very well respected. I have a current acting auditor general. I have the former finance director of the city and a certified public. And it's being led by my director administration now adding an independent group to look at our finances so that we can get a clear picture as to where we are. I think people understand me. People understand that there are

challenges right now in terms of our cities across the country and I think that the citizens of Rhode Island want to know exactly where we are so getting a clear picture. And third bringing people all to the table to make clear that the solutions are going to be difficult. But we all have to be part of the solution and I'm already started that by letting them know what we're doing. Before we announced the panel we made sure to reach out to so many of the different groups involved in our city. We also have support from the governor the speaker of the house State Senate president and the president of the city council. And so I feel like we're building a good team to move the city forward. Now you have by your own statement a serious budget deficit and an unfunded pension liability of Eight hundred million dollars a month other among other issues and this move that you made today to be more transparent about what the financial situation is as is I'm sure going to be appreciated by your constituents

but you know we all say it's constituents that we want. We want things to be better but that sacrifice is really tough to take. What's going to happen when you have to really make some hard calls. I think it's not going to be easy and I think sacrifice is difficult. There's no doubt about that but I also believe that when we're all in it together when we all feel like we're being asked to sacrifice and it's a shared sacrifice it's what I've said for months now that it's a different feeling when I think it's a lot more difficult when people feel that you are unfairly targeting someone or that they're only they're the only ones being asked to sacrifice. That's why I say that it would be shared sacrifice. It needs to be all of us in this together and we're not pointing blame we're not assigning blame where what we're trying to do is fix the problem and make this city stronger for us $30 for the people in the city but for the people of the state. So do I expect that people be concerned in

that it won't be easy of course. I expect that it's going to be difficult if it was easy people would have done it already. I mare you know you as I mentioned have been doing other community activities throughout much of your life. In addition you've served other ways so you must believe that that being in the in the political leadership can somehow make a difference then the other ways that you served did not. Explain a little bit of that if you would. Well I think for me I've always I've always believed in public service and I did that when I was at Harvard as a stright right public service scholar than I did I was a public interest law scholar at Georgetown Law. I was an echoing green public service fellow for a year between law school between college and law school with something that I believe in I think there's we all have a role to play and I say that to anyone who's listening today to make sure people understand that you can have a full time job but there's still a chance to work on boards and get involved in city government get involved

with what's going on at your local community center people need role models young kids need role models there's so many ways you can get involved around issues that you care about. That's what I've done in the past. This issue in terms of running for mayor for me this is a city that's given me everything that I have. I grew up here since time. While since I was one we moved here when I was very young from New York and went through all public schools and so many of my family members they still live in the city. I have members in the public schools family members and I want to make a difference not only for them but for all of the kids who are where I was 30 years 30 years ago. And and I think being mayor really provides me that opportunity I can tell you I've been in the job just a little bit over a week. But your ability to make change and to affect people's lives on a daily basis is extraordinary. And so I feel very very blessed to have this opportunity to serve the people of Providence and

people the state of Rhode Island. Well you probably know if you don't I'll tell you that even in Massachusetts and other parts of New England we've been talking about people leading up to the election and the broader Latino community was extremely excited about the possibility of your becoming mayor and certainly the folks who are immigrants from the Dominican Republic and from that's where you're from where you're po folks are from. So it's there's an excitement a kind of expectation I think maybe that is felt by that community and I wonder if you feel that do you feel a specific responsibility to that community. Well let me just say that I feel a responsibility to the can to all communities in the city of Providence in the state of Rhode Island. Now I have felt the excitement. You're talking about though from a Latino perspective. And and that is I met a lady who was in her 90s and she wanted to vote for the first time because of me. And I found this out through a friend and I went by that to see

her and boy was she thrilled. And so it's something that I recognize that the excitement is there. And I one of the reasons we did inauguration we had a gala at the end of the night all privately funded privately funded no tax dollars at all. We actually there was an offer to do that to pay for something and now we're not using any tax dollars. The reason we did the celebration was I wanted people to celebrate. I want to people have an opportunity. We had over 50 hundred people there. I was a great celebration and it was an opportunity for all of us to gather and reflect on it. But what I've said Overall I'm already thinking about the future in this way and that is that. It's great to have that pride and to celebrate. But the focus for me now has to be on doing an exceptional job for our city and for our state because by doing that that feeling of pride is only going to grow. It's going to grow and people are going to feel very good about the job that I'm doing.

And that's what I want to see I want to see that pride grow. I want them to always feel excited about me being the mayor and make sure that the job that I do is good for our city and for our state. So that's my focus now in recognizing that I do have an extra responsibility because I'm the first but I certainly do not want to be the last. I know you've only been in the chair for a little week or so but hey we have to ask these questions. Are you looking beyond the mayorship to you know bigger political leadership positions. I say that because I am reminded of when Mayor Villaraigosa of L.A. was elected to the mayor of Los Angeles. I mean it up on the cover of Time magazine as emblematic of the new strong Latino leadership across the country. So I know there's got to be talk out there for any of you that rise to the level of statewide office and I just want to get on the record first in case you're thinking beyond Mayor Ford. OK.

What I'm looking right now I am looking beyond this interview to the snowstorm that's come. And the work that we've got to make sure to make sure that out city is functioning and open and the streets are plowed and that our kids are fine and safe. So that's what I'm looking beyond right now I'm not focused on anything other than making sure that I do a good job for the citizens of the city of Providence and the folks in the state of Rhode Island that's my focus and believe me we've been on the phone and focusing on that snowstorm and once I get off the phone with you I'll be doing the same thing focusing on that's most law. You might want to take a page out of Newark Mayor Cory Booker's up book and you know pick up a shovel to that well you know what I will tell you something I'm not issuing a press release about this or anything but I will be on the plow trucks tonight and I've already my eye will be on and my chief of staff other folks will be accompanying our drivers on the city as we follow the streets. And if they're not sleeping either in mind so if you see some dock dock guys tomorrow in the back of my eyes you know what is going on but

in terms of a shovel if we need a shovel would do that too. Well big fan of Mayor Booker saying Oh absolutely and of course I'm I'm in Boston where you know Mayor Menino is always out there so we appreciate that. Thank you so much for speaking with me Mayor Tamara's. Oh thank you Cali it's my pleasure. Boston is a special place in my heart and I'm looking forward to the Red Sox this year. All right well. We don't want we don't want this to be the last time we have a conversation with you so we'll be in touch over there. I look forward to it. Thank you. All right. I've I'm Kelly Crossley and I've been speaking with Mayor to virus to virus last week he became the first Latino mayor of Providence Rhode Island. Up next we head north to New Hampshire in the wake of the shootings in Tucson. We look at the parallels in the land of Live Free or Die that shares with Arizona. With the.

Support for WGBH comes from you. And from the Museum of Science and their latest IMAX film Australia Land beyond time. The Museum of Science is proud to support the noble radio minute weekday mornings on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. And from the New England mobile book fair in Newton. For 54 years New England's independent bookstore. The New England mobile book fair. Find them online at an e-book fair dot com. That's an e-book fair dot com. On the next hour postponed interview with Mira Bartok her new memoir The Memory Palace is about having a mother who is schizo phrenic violent and for many years homeless. She spent her last two years in a women's shelter that is now named after her. Join us for the next FRESH AIR. This afternoon at 2:00 an eighty nine point seven.

Hi this is Cathy Fuller from ninety nine point five bathrooms all classical station. And I hope you'll join me next spring for our Spanish melodies getaway with the WGBH learning tours. We'll take in opera art and visit the island of Majorca famous winter ski. Learn more and more flash to us. American experience is seeking 40 college students to retrace the civil rights journey of the 1961 Freedom Rides traveling with the original Freedom Riders from Washington D.C. to Jackson Mississippi. Learn more at PBS dot org slash Freedom Riders. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley. This is the Kelly Crossley Show. Arizona

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords once described her district this way the home of OK Corral and Tombstone a town too tough to die. These words also in many ways embody what could be Arizona's NE win New Hampshire. Joining us to talk about the parallels between Arizona and New Hampshire in the context of gun culture and the recent shooting in Tucson is Arnie Arnesen. She's a political analyst and a radio and TV commentator in New Hampshire. Arnie Welcome back. It's a pleasure. Well I guess it's not a pleasure this is such a sad time for the country and obviously for Arizona. I just can't even imagine it. But you're right we got that we have a kissing cousin in some ways of Arizona because I want folks to know that the very first act of the newly elected legislature in the state of New Hampshire and I think this context is really important here the Republicans have controlled the New Hampshire House for centuries. I mean for a long time and just within the last four years Democrats came in and in an unusual sweep and swept up the Republicans in the state went from being a very red state

to a very blue state. Well that all changed in November and the Republicans came in and the understanding of what they were coming into focus on the economy and that was their agenda. But instead the very first act of the newly constituted Republican legislature was to reinstate a historic ban on arms in the state house. And I. Want to make sure that people understand what they mean. That you can now carry firearms in the state house in the House gallery and see rooms and chamber guns must be carried concealed. In other parts of the building they may be carried openly openly in other parts of the building. The state house and I'm quoting from the union leader every wanted to know that I'm not quoting from The Boston Globe or the New York Times but from the gospel of Conservative News in the state of New Hampshire. And that's that's pretty terrifying. I need to tell you and I think people are so much shocked at this. And there was a lot of anger and confusion after they reinstated it. And then

of course on Saturday it became even more sobering because we realized the consequences of guns in places where they don't belong. OK. I I have someone on the line who is going to disagree with that line of thought. Joining me on the line is House deputy majority leader Representative Sean Jasper a Republican from Hudson New Hampshire. Representative Jeb Sir Jasper welcome. Thank you. Oh great you're quoted in The Telegraph the Nashua Telegraph and saying that the presence of weapons can be a teaching tool for students and that the believe the gun laws will actually keep the folks in office safe will keep them safe or keep New Hampshire citizens safe or explain please. Well Hampshire is an extremely safe state. And my comment taken by itself there that is slightly out of context it was in response to what was what was being said on on the other side of the issue. People have to understand that we are an open carry state. You can go anywhere in New

Hampshire with very few exceptions and see people who are caring who operates. That's part of it. How we how we operate in the state and Arnie and I were freshmen in the legislature back in the nineteen eighty four when we were both very very young. Yeah and you know while there may have been a rule in place I'm not sure that anybody really ever gave any any thought to it. It wasn't something that was really enforced I think that she and I can both think of a couple of lawmakers who I certainly knew carried probably more than a couple who care even in the House chambers even though that may not have been technically something that was was allowed I mean only having been they violated the rules in other words. Well what I'm saying is that we've all known that that's gone on we may not have approved of it I don't approve of violating the rules. But it's something that that happened

and certainly something that we were aware of that the reach the fact of the matter is that there's really very limited security here at the State House people who want to violate the rules could easily do so and I don't like to be in a situation myself where only the honest people are on Iraq. That's one of the realities of a situation such as ours we have a rule of place let's face it if everybody follows the rules and everybody obey the laws we wouldn't have any need for prisons. But yet now our prison population is rapidly expanding. So there is not just a fallacy to think that if you put a rule in place everybody's going to say Well aside from the rule I want to get both of you to weigh in on whether or not what you think about this. Already the Massachusetts delegation congressional delegation has said that they're not they're going to refuse more security they're going to just try to go about their business as they have been. So I'm wondering if you think it's

now kind of New Hampshire is prescient and having led having the congressional delegation are the legislators they're not infected. The opposite is true. You talk about it being a teachable moment John. This is not a teachable moment. This is a place but the Concord the Boston the Albany the Washington D.C. These are places where weapons can be put aside because of the weight. It's a it's a place that celebrates war. That's what democracy is about. It's not about brandishing a weapon. It's about telling people that this is a safe place where you can dialogue with words and if you're talking about what it was like in the 80s when the rule was in place the people were breaking the rule. But now what you're saying is bring your weapon here. It's almost an encouragement like a welcome mat which makes no sense. Number one if you read what the Capitol Hill cops are saying now in light of what happened to the congresswoman and the people that died in Arizona they absolutely do not want nonprofessionals armed on the floor of the Capitol. They do

not want that to happen. And so your excuse is well we're going to have a lot of safety and security around the statehouse. So we're going to have four hundred twenty four people who have a wide range of abilities a wide range of ages I would describe the New Hampshire legislature as made up of the rich the retired and the remunerated and they tend to be very old and you don't want people who are in trade just copped to carry loaded weapons onto the floor of the house. Why would you want that. How does that create a potato and that creates potential for mayhem. Representative Jasper. Well first of all I think to say that I want that to happen is a mischaracterization of my position. I don't care and never have. Can't imagine that I ever would. But I want to deal with the reality of what's going on. Again as I say I don't want only the people with bad intentions to be only ones who are harmed around here. And I think that's the reality of life we've seen too many places too many times

where gun free zones have have seen tragedies. And in several of those cases the gunman was the only one who was armed and was able to go on his rampage for quite some time because people who otherwise would have had weapons have been able to defend the innocent were following the rules. And so it's not it's not a black and white issue. You know in a perfect world we wouldn't need to worry about this at all. We're not encouraging people to to bring weapons in here. We don't see people all over the streets of New Hampshire carrying carrying weapons. It's something with some people some people choose to do and it is their right under the Constitution and this is absolutely that was. Let me let me ask one question because this is something that I haven't heard discussed a lot in in the wake of the Tucson shooting. One of the two men and I'm not talking about the intern but

one of the two men that rushed toward Congresswoman Giffords was a guy not the doctor the other guy whose name I'm sorry escapes me who after was interviewed said he ran toward her because he did have a gun. So he was not afraid which I thought was an interesting statement he was asking Weren't you afraid because you were running toward the shooting he said no I had a gun on me because Arizona that's what the point we're making here is much like New Hampshire. So he felt comfortable in doing that and then we've also heard from the representative from Utah who said you know they have concealed weapon permission in Utah. He's you know been carrying a gun he's going to continue to do that and now use it more cell so I guess my question is are we going to see this more either by individuals are other state legislators legislatures can just remind everyone too that when Justice Scalia was addressing this issue in the most recent Supreme Court case the District of Columbia versus Heller talked about people's right to their gun. But he also said that there were certain times when he could in fact put in

place restrictions and he referred to them in sensitive places such as everyone sit down and listen. And government building schools and government buildings. So Sean if you are concerned about the fact. You know someone could come in packing heat because we don't have enough protection then maybe we need to do something about protecting people that are now serving in the New Hampshire legislature. But having an 87 year old man with you know a concealed weapon it is pocket sitting next to me doesn't make me feel safer. If he decides to use it because some of them happen because these people are not trained as a policeman they're not trained in what to do. Yes they have a weapon but that doesn't mean that they know exactly how to use it in the setting that it may be required to be. And that's problematic and we have four hundred members of the New Hampshire legislature and I'm not sure I would feel more secure knowing that the guy next to me had a Glock in the stock.

What do you think that did you. But do you think that more people will begin caring now or be inspired to because of this incident or either one. I really I really don't I don't think this is going to cause people to run out and get a concealed weapons permit. I think you know you can you can come up with all these fears and you can live your life in fear and in the what if the reality is we're a safe state. And it's been shown time and time again where people know that there are people likely to be armed. The instances of violence are much less as a town in Texas I think where they have an ordinance that everybody is required to have a firearm and they have virtually no violence and I think I. I don't think that we can really get into a debate of knowing what will motivate people to do Y. At least not with any degree of accuracy. But I

think it's it's fair to say that we've recognized what the reality is and not tried to to set out things so that you have the law abiding and rule abiding people not having guns in those who have no regard for rules or laws at all. Walking around with with guns because there's no desire as far as I know of any parties here to walk down the statehouse and to have people frisked as they come in this is the people's house. So we've responded to the reality of the world if you will and you know that interesting what you just said Son Leslie shouldn't live in fear and. Just watch what you just did with the DEs Hampshire legislature by reinstating the right to carry concealed weapons on the floor of the house and allowing people to carry weapons that are exposed outside that arena and in the state have plenty to fear. It doesn't say twat your neighbor it doesn't say

come to the legislature with a weapon should be put aside. Because here is where words matter. Here is where policy gets discussed. Instead now the welcome mat said when your weapons and police say something Kelly I remember being in the New Hampshire legislature when we would be talking about gun issues and I'll be the first person to tell you I don't want the government to be the only one with the gun. No I am not an anti-gun person in any way shape or form but I will tell you that what is so chilling about what just happened on Saturday what so chilling about what the legislature does is that now there is a fear of the NRA and the people they fear the NRA are the lawmakers in this country. Because I can remember voting on issues relating to guns in the Hampshire House. Looking up on the balcony and watching people wearing their hunter red and their hunter aren't. And it was it was a set and you had to go through this. They don't think the people where it was about intimidation and fear. And you're probably right Sean. They might have been packing heat. We just assume the rule

that you couldn't bring it in. But but that's the problem. We're not making decisions in a setting where we aren't frightened we are frightened. Now the question is this giving someone more access to weapons in every single possible public setting making us feel safer. And is that the way you will model for your children. Representative Jesper do you think that this incident and what you all have voted on in New Hampshire will impact the conversation about guns if not controlled about gun safety in any way or is it are you guys just New Hampshire as you've always been which is you know quite independent and it'll be viewed as such. Well I think that that'll certainly be the case. You know and I want to talk about the idea that this was the first thing we did. This was part of a comprehensive rules changed. The first thing that we always do when a legislature does is adopt the rules of the house. So by necessity it was part of the first action. We took it wasn't

like we went out to do this specifically. And you know I guess. I'm having a hard time relating to people who are afraid of the presence of a gun. I grew up around guns. Not a not a sport. We didn't really even need them for protection I grew up on a farm where they were needed to take care of the predatory animals. And you know I grew up knowing exactly where my father's guns were going to where is ammunition was and I was taught never to touch them and I never I never did and so the presence of guns for me has never given me a second thought and I guess I feel sorry for people who who see guns as a dangerous thing I mean we don't have fist fights in the legislature and certainly I think you have to

think about the fact. That if in fact you know tempers flared and people willing to pull out a gun and shoot at someone you would have instances where people were having fist fights and that doesn't happen it's a respectful place. But the reality of it is. And I guess I guess I guess as Anthony Scalia agrees with you but he also added that it was not an unlimited right and that could a war time and places and instances and settings where you can establish a set of rules and it makes sense because he referred to them as sensitive places and schools and government were places where it was almost like it was like coming to church you know and there are certain things you do in church that you don't do out of out of sight of that. And I I do also want to provide everyone that one of the problems we've heard and if you are listening to discussions across the news and on public radio this morning is that almost anyone can get a gun

today almost anyone. And there are so little restrictions and mental health been there. It's basically an unlimited access. And I guess you have to make it as terminations as to whether you want to telegraph the message that guns are totally acceptable here if the message you really want to send is this is the place where we work things out with war. And I don't know whether the two are not mutually exclusive. Well I don't know that if it is any reason to think that they are mutually exclusive you know what the New Hampshire House voted a margin of almost three to one to adopt the rules and there were were debates on this and I think we've come to the conclusion that they're usually exclusive in that it's guns are part of life and we shouldn't feel the need to exclude them care. And while I agree with you that you know Judge Scalia said there were places that you could exclude that he didn't say he had to exclude them. We've

made the decision in New Hampshire that they're not acceptable in school you're dealing with children who are not fully mature but yet we even know in those situations there are people who bring guns into school and there's really nothing we can successfully do to stop that. And so what we're going to be OK with you to penetrate understanding so we know the people break the rules which is why I don't quite understand why we have you know speed limit on a highway because you know people go to 85 miles an hour why bother having the up there but if you don't know that people break the rules about you recommending that they're often not sensitive places and that would be perfectly acceptable for people to bring their weapons then. I don't think that's what he said. And unfortunately we have to leave that conversation right there at this moment. And it's going to be one that's going to be ongoing. I know in the next coming weeks and months so I'm very appreciative of my guests House deputy majority leader Representative John Jasper a Republican from Hudson New Hampshire

as well as Arnie Arnesen was a political analyst and radio and TV commentator in New Hampshire. We've been talking about the parallels between the gun culture in Arizona and New Hampshire. Thank you both very much. Thank you. Up next we look at how the Sudan referendum vote is playing out in New England. Stay with us. Support for WGBH comes from you and from safety insurance who has joined forces with in control crash prevention training to dramatically reduce the risk that a first year driver will be in an accident. More about keeping your teen driver safe at drive in controlled calm. And from new Repertory Theatre presenting a national new play network rolling world premiere of afterlife a ghost story by Steve Yaki directed by Kate Werner and featuring new rep favorites. January 16th through February 6th new rep work.

Right. Next time on the world in the evangelical volunteer in Haiti who says his group treats patients with medicine and with prayer. All of the volunteers are coming so far to help they all with Jesus in their heart of it like some hungry for the gospel. Such programs are credited with spreading the Christian faith. But it doesn't always stick. Medical evangelism next time on the world. Coming up at 3 o'clock here at eighty nine point seven GBH February 3rd 2002 the New England Patriots beat the season has managed to secure the team's very first Super Bowl championship. February 1st 2004 the New England Patriots beat the Carolina Panthers for a second Super Bowl. Victory 6 2005 the New England Patriots beat the Philadelphia Eagles making it three Super Bowl wins in four cities. With the next chapter of.

Its history. And bid on a pair of Pats playoff tickets for this Sunday. There's an auction WGBH dot org. Everybody has one story in the world. He didn't get in from his belongings and he defines good by luck. Coming up at 3 o'clock on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley. This is the Calla Crossley Show. Now voting is underway in southern Sudan in a referendum that is expected to split Africa's largest country. And throughout New England thousands of Sudanese citizens are casting their votes. Joining me to talk about how this historic event is reverberating here at home is Liz Walker a television journalist ordained minister and co-founder of my sister's keeper an organization that brings assistance to women in Sudan. I'm also joined by Sara Reale. She's a program director for my sisters keeper and a native of Southern Sudan. She was recently awarded the Eleanor Roosevelt Human Rights Award for her work in

Sudan. Welcome to you both. Thank you. Graduations there. Yeah thank you. Now all across the world. This is a big deal. You know Senator Kerry just returned from Sudan observing the vote. Former President Jimmy Carter is there as an international observer. But it's also a big deal here in New England. And I don't think that a lot of people understand that connection. So I wanted to start their lives when we kick off with you why is it a big deal this vote for student refugees who are here in New England. It's a big deal for Sudanese refugees here in New England but I think it's a big deal for all of us because of the of the importance of this country Africa's largest country and its position between the Middle East in Africa and all the things that this impacts but it's also important because of the Sudanese the population in this area and people who are very concerned about what's happening in their homeland.

The issues of liberation the issues of autonomy the issues of education the issues of freedom are in the air so it's extremely important for for all of us I think to see that this happens peacefully in a country that has not known peace. So we are all very very tense and very excited about the possibilities that are going on in. Sudan writes or yes in Syria one of the things that you know when people think about Sudan they think Darfur I mean I think you go right there and you don't think about there's other issues going on there. And we're not understanding you know OK so the South wants to succeed from the north. You know what's the big deal but you as a person have lived through that. So and by all accounts I'm hearing that most people want to vote in favor of succession. So tell me why. Yeah this is this is them as been in war for so many years between the north and the south and the people of the South so mainly Christians and mainly one's limbs. This war

has been a result of so many factors that religious economic infrastructure and in all of these led to the Soudan is determining their their right because they've been marginalized there's more progress more development in South Sudan. Even doing most of the resources do come from the south. But it's been developing their north more than the south so decide on its own to determine their own destiny their own future so many lives have been lost more than 2 million people died many millions refugees including. Also here in the New England area and that's why people feel like it's time it's time to decide for the saddle's who needs to lead their own nation. It is a good thing for the South and Sudan that this is happening in a democratic way and we hope that there is no any violence. However at the same time there is a lot going on in all of us Sudan and some of the work that we and my sisters keeper do is to bring women

across Sudan Mattoo there's a common sense thing together collaborate around across cultures in terms of building peace throughout Sudan. And we have recently been to the Nuba Mountains. All the sudden could find a state where we we gathered women to discuss about the role of women in the popular consultation which is also not a process that is supposed to happen in Southern Kordofan state in blue night. So I just want to say that even though the South is going through this process most probably it will separate but there are a lot of other volatile challenges facing people around Sudan is the Darfur issue is the Nuba Mountains the Saddam Blue Nile and the eastern Sudan of northern part of Sudan which is even not talked about. So all of this is happening inside Sudan. And even if South separates if there is no peace in the northern part of Sudan the south will still be affected by the. By any crisis that might happen in the neighboring country. That's my guest Sarah Reale she is the program director for excuse me my

sister's keeper and a native of Southern Sudan. I'm also joined by Liz Walker a television journalist ordained minister and co-founder of my sister's keeper. Now Liz when you all have done work in Sudan and come back sometimes with some of the young women there or building a school there as you are doing a part of that grows out of this kind of this disruption that Sara just talked about that division of religion Christian in the south and Muslim in the north and the fight over resources oil rich southern Sudan. What is the impact on those young women there. Well women are the most amazing that's the most amazing story as far as I'm concerned from Sudan from all over Sudan but particularly in the south. Very few women in the south of Sudan have been educated Sarah is a very rare woman because she's been educated and been a college and and has gotten a master's degree. The status quo in that country is that people who have been marginalized are not educated men and

women. And so you have people who are poor people who are unemployed not unlike situations here. And when Sarah was talking about the complexities of all these different ethnic groups and all these different areas that are still struggling despite what will happen between the north and the south that's because a very very small group is trying to control the future of all different kinds of people and these different kinds of people representing different tribes and different ethnicities and different religions and and so on want their own autonomy so there's all kinds of little not even little. All kinds of sparks happening all over the country and women have borne the brunt of this as as Nicholas Kristoff says so eloquently columnist for The New York Times in half the sky. When you go to these countries where you know human rights are being abused generally it's women and children who are bearing the biggest brunt. So what's happening with these women in South Sudan Southern Sudan excuse me Syria. Women who are deciding that they are going to take the initiative and

do something for themselves and they're asking for support from women all over the world and we're doing it. But these are women who like Sarah are courageous amazing courageous women who are deciding that no longer that they want to be voiceless that they're going to now do some own their own advocacy for peace for education and for all of the issues they they face. So it's a there's a revolution happening in this part of the world that is very inspirational to the rest of us. Very dangerous very risky. But Sara is a hero not only in her country but all over the world because of the things that she's doing to change the way life is in southern Sudan and we really admire and honor her for her work. Absolutely. Now Sara personally emotionally as this voting is going on. Share with our listeners what you're feeling you said the there's some anxiety about how that vote is going to go on but what does that mean as a person like yourself who live there and have been a part of so much of that trauma

and yet now you're seeing something else could be changing at this moment. I I I feel that their vote is definitely going to be for separation and it is very emotional especially thinking about all the sufferings that we have been through all it might have been very hard for people who have been uprooted for so many through our lives I mean we have grown as displaced from one place to another and at some point so many people established themselves in in the lot and part and with a country dividing it has been very very difficult decision for them even to just be uprooted once again and that this is their own will. But that is not the whole thing I think people can leave their property is the most important is the future the future of the children is not for me but it's for

generations to come. It may be a very hard decision to to say that that's separate but this not being the way I mean with so many years people have been trying to leave. Together it has been very very hard. So I feel it's better for day two countries to be separated and live in harmony than to try to create to build a unity that doesn't really that doesn't exist that doesn't exist. And for and for me I still say it's that's not the end of the road. Saddam Saddam Hussein has a lot of work to go doing in terms of building a structure but we as women we still need to be made to cooperate across their regions. Even if it's a different country we still need to have the connection with the Northern Sudan Congo. I mean it's all the whole region needs to be in peace and what role women can play in building the peace in the area. Now a practical question what systems are in place to make sure that those of you who are voting here and

people who are voting in other places our votes will be counted. Yeah I am it's been overseeing the International Organization of Migration has been selected to oversee the election. And just on Saturday I was in Nebraska Omaha Nebraska I joined in the global southern Sudanese when the press the press so I mean. These are all over everywhere all over. Wow. Yeah and I've been reading a lot of different step by step the things that me I was going to be done for during the election and at that event as a present to be from the UN came and spoke to the gathering and the counting is going to happen where the voting takes place like in in the New England area the voting is happening now in Arlington Massachusetts so when the counting is over a day when the voting is over in January 15 they will start counting right away. In Arlington I'll include out in Arlington Massachusetts.

Their votes will be counted and it would be counted in early on and this stuff will not leave the building unless they finish the counting even if it's going to take them 24 hours to count and then they will put the results out. They would hang it is going to end and then the results will be sent to Juba and then Jubal will send it to the capital city in Khartoum so we are confident that they become thing is very much Monita. Well and the results will be what the people would like to see. Now when I think about this and you know Pardon my ignorance on this I reflect back to the Berlin wall so that came down and there were families on the other side and they were united and friends and all of that. That's not quite the same thing that's happening right now is a little bit different. This it's a this is the beginning of building the Berlin Wall. It is it is really very hard because we there's been intermarriage people have been many I'm just saying that the event in our in Nebraska a young woman stood up and she was pleading to the people that she her

mother from Darfur and her father it's Homeside in Sudan. Wow and she was crying in that she said OK people don't forget my mother. I've been to south and Darfur where her mother's home and it's really disrupted there. And she she's played into her uncles who are from the other side to not forget how mother who's on the other side where the country splits in the same one I had a woman who was from southern Sudan so it's about 50 maybe yeah I don't know if you're broken I have it's not only her mother and father separated but it's how she's also losing some relatives on the other side which is really very hard. I mean and these are some of the things that needs to be talked through when Paul sort of put in there. Discussion How are people going to be both decided to go forward. I just wanted to add two and a little history when when Sudan was independent from Britain when you're annexed Sudan it divided it up and way right

because people had been kind of living. I'm sure I don't want to oversimplify Sarah but I think that different tribes and different ethnicities had been kind of coalescing or living together. These were colonial divisions back yes colonial dimension what happened. My point being that I think that had a lot to do or had something to do it. And I'm asking Sarah with the animosities because then resources become slim and then people are fighting over resources in that part of it or not and that's and that's that we see that all across. And we've seen that replicated in other areas of Africa as well so this is not unique to that way but. But Liz I did want to get this in before we run out of time and that is for people who are listening thinking OK well this is very interesting. Well you know why why does it mean something to me or why should it mean something to me. Those of us who who are listening who are not Sudanese and you know I. It means something to me because it's a part of the world and we're all part of this global community. And I think it also means something to me because of people like Sarah who are here in this

country. And again we are all trying to get you know get our get our lives together and go for the American dream. But we're so connected to other parts of the world. So I don't think we can live in a vacuum and say OK it doesn't matter. September 11 2000. One was that it matters what happens. So that's one thing for me that we should all feel connected. The Sudanese refugees immigrate immigrant population in this country is growing. They are a vibrant part of our community they are contributing to our community and they are you know Americans or so. So that's one thing. The other thing is that Sudan is a country that is I think in our best interest to keep peace there because all of Africa or East Africa could explode because of what happens in Sudan and certainly there's all kinds of implications for the Middle East so I think that's why it matters to me. Well I think that is very important for listeners to know. I should also note that

a few celebrities George Clooney have been on site to what oversee this vote as well and to to raise attention to this so this is going to be an ongoing conversation. We're not done. Even when the vote is done it's not over. It's not it is a beginning you know just the beginning. Thank you both so much I've been talking about the Southern Sudan referendum and how it's reverberating in Boston with Liz Walker and Sara Rio. Liz Walker is a television journalist ordained minister and co-founder of my sister's keeper an organization that brings assistance to women in Sudan. I'm also joined by Sara Reale She's a program director for my sisters keeper and a native of southern Sudan and she was recently awarded the Eleanor Roosevelt Human Rights Award for her work there. Before we leave you today I want you to light a cupcake for us a candle and a cupcake. Today marks our one year anniversary. Listeners thank you for tuning in calling in tweeting us and friending and fanning us on Facebook. We wouldn't be here without you. Thanks to our contributors and guests for taking time out of your day to share your stories opinions and expertise. We appreciate it.

Today Show was engineered by Alan meadows and produced by Chelsea murders and a white knuckle bee and Abbie Ruzicka. This is the calico slick show where production of WGBH radio Boston NPR station for news and culture.