WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Kelly Crossley. This is the cow across the show. When it comes to getting older Mark Twain said age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind it doesn't matter. But with the number of folks 65 and up doubling in 40 years age definitely matters. Now that we're living longer than we did a century ago the folks at MIT are gearing up literally to improve the quality of our older and live thier lives. They've designed the dept out jumpsuit that increases our age by decades with neck braces resistance cables and shoes. The suit simulates ailments that often time with getting older and by knowing what it feels like to be healed they can help make things from computers to cars that are more useful and appealing to an aging demographic. From MIT we get the Masonic Lodge where Boston's young rockers are becoming Freemasons. Up next from new approaches to old age to an age old traditions new blood. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Pam Colter. A lot of Americans have

been out of work a long time but there may be some hope ahead. Applications for jobless benefits have fallen to the lowest level in more than two and a half years. NPR's Giles Snyder says they plunged to a seasonally adjusted three hundred sixty eight thousand. The unexpected drop is being taken as a sign the job market may be strengthening. The fact that it dropped so much is good news in fact the consensus was for it to rise a bit so the fact it claims fell is actually a good sign. John Canal He is an economist with LPL Financial. It's the second straight week that claims have fallen below 400000. Another report issued by the Labor Department shows workers boosted their productivity in the final three months of last year suggesting that employers might have to step up hiring to meet growing demand. Joel Snyder NPR News Washington. A negotiating team for the White House goes to Capitol Hill this afternoon to work on a long term plan for the federal budget. NPR's Ari Shapiro reports a stopgap measure bought only a couple of weeks of breathing room.

Until now the White House has largely sat on the sidelines in the budget debate. But now the president's team is stepping in. Mr. Obama has assigned Vice President Joe Biden Chief of Staff Bill Daley and Budget Director Jack Lew to work with Congress on a long term solution. The White House team will meet with congressional leaders on Capitol Hill this afternoon. President Obama says he won't be satisfied with two week continuing resolutions that threaten to shut down the government twice a month. The goal now is to agree on a package of cuts for a budget that will fund the government through the end of the fiscal year in September. Their deadline is March 18th when the short term bill that Congress passed yesterday will expire. Ari Shapiro NPR News the White House. President Obama and Mexican President Felipe Calderon are about to hold a joint news conference at the White House. They've been discussing border security drug violence and cross-border trucking. Thousands of foreign workers and others are fleeing Libya as government forces battle rebels in Breda and other areas. The U.S. Europe and the U.N. are donating more than 30 million dollars to help the chaotic exodus. NPR's David Greene is at a refugee camp near the Libyan border in Tunisia.

International organizations are doing the absolute best they possibly can to get in here because they're so worried about the Tunisian government being able to deal with this in another country. Is our starting to get people out of Britain for example as it has begun flights out of the Tunisian city to move people to Egypt Amman and so aid organizations that the U.N. for example says at the moment they feel like they've gotten control of the situation but it's one they could get out of their control very quickly if more help doesn't arrive. The Pentagon's downplaying the possibility of military infor intervention in Libya but Arizona Senator John McCain says the U.S. should consider providing air cover for rebels on Wall Street the Dow is up one hundred eighty two points. Nasdaq's ahead 50 and the S&P 500 index is up 20. This is NPR. Suicide is still a big problem in Japan despite a drop in the number of people who killed themselves last year. The decline was three and a half percent. But more than 30000 ended their own lives for the 13th year in a row. Authorities say the

number of people blaming grim job prospects and their suicide notes has more than doubled over the past four years. About a third of them were in their 20s fighting in Ivory Coast's commercial capital has spread from neighborhoods in the north to the south of the city. NPR's Ofeibea Quist Arkin says security is deteriorating in the West African nation amid fighting between forces backing the two men who claim the presidency. As the continent awaits the ruling on Ivory Coast post-election crisis by African presidential mediators tension and turmoil are mounting hostilities have resumed across the North-South ceasefire line dividing Ivory Coast that has been quiet for six years in Abidjan clashes. The DRE tradition is in the northern Abo neighborhood have spread south to see supporters of the disputed incumbent president rampaged through the city's business district this week. Pillaging shops owned by foreigners the U.S. warns Americans not to

travel to Ivory Coast citing political instability as well as a rapidly declining economy. Stockton NPR News Accra abstinence education may be paying off. A study from the Centers for Disease Control found a small but significant decline in the number of teens and young adults having sex. Health officials say the number of 15 to 24 year olds who have had some kind of sex drop 78 to 72 percent. Pam Colter NPR News Washington. Support for NPR comes from the health care compact alliance working for citizen control of health care information add health care compact dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley. This is the Kelly Crossley Show. These days we're living decades longer than we were a century ago and as we live older longer as a society we need to figure out what it takes to live healthy and productive lives into

our 70s 80s and beyond. My guest Joseph Kaufman is doing just that. He's the founder and director of The Age Lab at MIT. One of his creations is the age empathy suit. When you put it on it gives you an idea of what it feels like to be in your 70s. The purpose is to have product designers understand what it feels like to be older so that they can make things from computers to cars that appeal to a ride range of people but particularly the older crowd. Joe Kaufman welcome. Oh you're welcome thank you for having me. OK we're going to get into the specifics of the suit and your research in just a minute. But first I want our listeners to get in on this conversation. We are at 8 7 7 3 0 180 970 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. So let me ask this question. Do you find yourself frustrated with products that are specifically designed for your quote age group unquote like phones with big buttons. Is the advertising industry turning you off by thinking they know what you want. And as you get older what kind of life do you see for yourself. What would it take to have a top

quality old age. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 170. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and you can send us a tweet or a message to our Facebook page. So let's start this way with the empathy which you have nicknamed Agnes for age again now. Empathy system. You got it. OK. This comes out of the MIT age Lab. And you wanted to give people a sense of what aging is like. Tell us what the suit does what it looks like all of the sure my my colleague police know and Katie Godfrey and others who helped develop the suit really wanted to create something that did not just make you feel old I mean we have subjects coming through the lab every day throughout the year to understand how people relate to technology drive cars and the like but engineers and designers and indeed even marketers don't really get the aha moment from a quote or from even simply watching an engineer who's wearing the suit feels the friction the

frustration and sometimes even the fatigue of using one of their new devices goes wow. That's stupid. We can fix that. And so Agnes is a really important tool to get shall we say into the head the hands and the feet of the older consumer. And so specifically what does it do you put it on and what happened. Sure I want you to imagine a jumpsuit as you describe blue jumpsuit. But it's got a number of things to it it has a harness to restrict motion particularly on your hips or your legs. The joints that many of us complain about as we get a little older whether it's our wrists our elbows our knees in neck brace to restrict the rotation of your neck you know many people complain about the visibility in their car. You know the fact is the design of the cars have actually gotten better. Your neck has gotten stiffer a harness that is connected to a helmet to give you a little bit of that compression of the spine that beginning in your 70s you start to feel. And of course the yellowing of the glasses and a little bit of a scratch there to make the vision just a little bit more frustrating. So together it's now every person at

74 75. But it's kind of a prototype that we've calibrated with using measures from occupational therapy in the light of a mid 70s woman Agnes who's more likely than not managing diabetes. And in this day and age it should be noted that mid-seventies is not old. You know now you know in fact you know the rule of what is old is always 20 years older than whoever's answering the question. But no by no means a 70s the older and there's such diversity in the aging population. You know for instance getting into the car doing anything with a 50 year old is not taking care of themselves is probably a lot more hazardous than getting in the car with a 75 year old in good shape. I know that there are there have been for a long time these suits that people would put on to to simulate pregnancy. Sure but that the baby boom is over now right. I know but it seems to me that that just does a weight thing. It doesn't do the full experience as Agnus would give him an Agnus works not just by wearing it but by going into the environment that you're interested in so it could be as simple as getting in and out of a car going shopping in a retail environment

to really find out what it feels like not just to have seventy six inch shelves that you have to reach to the very top or to the very bottom. But how it feels to have to reach the top of the bottom when that motion is restricted. When it hurts a little bit when it fatigues you always start as a designer. You start to see things that you just don't quite get by watching consumers you don't feel the frustration of saying all the good food that you should be eating say as a type 2 diabetic is at the very top or at the very bottom and all of a sudden now it's not just placement it's frustration. Callers were at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 0 9 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. My guest is Joseph cufflink He's the founder and director of the AIDS lab at MIT and one of his creations is the age empathy suit nicknamed Agnes. And we're talking about how it helps designers come to understand fully empathetically what aging is like. So I'd like to know one of the responses from your engineers after they've worn this and entered into the environment as you said.

I think I'll edit out some of the swear words I mean we've often heard OK. I guess one of the things that I'm very happy to say is that they are have a new appreciation from the consumer I mean and this is a tool in the Age Lab particularly looks at trying to be a consumer centered consumer directed innovation laboratory. And so the engineers the students the designers from companies that we work with come away with a new appreciation and patience for the older consumer. You're moving slower not just because you're moving slower but you're feeling less confident about how sure you are that next step is going to be placed just right. You start to realize that where you put a product or where you put a button is not a matter of design but a matter of common sense. Trying to engineer ease as well as style on design. And frankly the older population painfully for me we define as 45 or 50 plus. Has always bought the high tech the high style and the high priced. So this is not just good to do. It's good business.

Let me know some of the statistics that our listeners will want to know about the first of 76 million baby boomers in the U.S. turn 65 in January. The number of people aged 65 and older is expected to more than double. Worldwide to about 1.5 billion by 2050 and that's up from five hundred twenty three million last year and this is an estimate from the United Nations. OK so that means this is according to an article in The New York Times people 65 and over will soon outnumber children under 5 for the first time ever. So this is you know not a small thing people saying oh that's interesting but you know this is this is you know this is the single most defining social economic force facing the world I mean even in China there are one hundred sixty five million people already over 65 and Europe it's said that there's more wheelchairs and walkers than there are baby carriages. And you call this a disruptive force

aging. You know my my blog disruptive demographics is really begs business and government to think differently. Do we really believe that the next generation of older adults is going to be the same as their parents. The real difference I would suggest to you is not just a story of more more older people but a story of greater expectations that there's a product a service in some cases a pill or a public policy that's not just going to add years to my life but quality to those years. It's interesting to me that when we start thinking about advertising and marketing and how they approach aging you know they typically have not approached it well. But one of the things that is that that is an often used tagline these days it's supposed to make you feel younger is this is not your grandfather's fill in the blank fill in the thing you know. Watch a car purse. You know you know that all of that you know there's a lesson in there from strategy and marketing standpoint. You know it is said in the auto industry but it can be applied to any

industry that you cannot build an old man's car because if you do an old man or a young man will not buy it. But guess what. Neither will an old man. Right. And so the baby boomers in particular now that they're reaching 65 and soon beyond. Are no longer young but they are forever youthful. So they're looking for products that don't have big buttons that insult us to what you've lost but provide a value for what you can do now at 65 75 and 85 and beyond. Now let's talk about the perception of aging in this country the reason that you've done this because you first turn around the perception and I I want to let our listeners hear something. To most of us this ad for a life craft is the classic stereotype of what it means to be oh I may have it just I'm calling paramedics and your family Mr. Miller. I'VE FALLEN AND I CAN'T Yeah we're sending help immediately Mrs. Fletcher. See. Protect yourself with a light call and you're never alone. So

before you respond Joseph Kaufman founder and director of the AIDS lab at MIT let me say that now the television ads for that commercial are showing younger people who actually could get up. Yeah. And that's I guess their attempt at young ing up the ad but in general you know your mate people make fun of this and it's made you're made to feel like well I want to be that. And what's interesting is as the great philosopher Yogi Berra said you can see a lot by looking at the sales of these products have done pitifully poorly given the number of people who are indeed frail over 65 that could benefit from those systems. Fewer than 3 percent of that market ever buys uses or has or two adult children buy it because they really are their symbolic their electronic wheelchairs if you will. And so what we should start thinking about is not the help I've fallen I can't get up but how do I bring say medicine and care and monitoring to the house at all ages for the little kid who may have the one A1 fever at night. So yes grandpa who may have chest pains later

on and I think that's what we see as an opportunity. The aging of society the baby boomers will reinvent all these new technologies that will be used across the age group. So I never thought you know probably never thought about this but your grandparents today and certainly the boomers as they become grandparents and beyond as well will become the lifestyle leaders of everyone else's lifestyle down the road. And you know the first thing that comes to mind is we're going to talk about your products that you're developing coming up. But I think about that young woman that designed for Target a new way of not mixing up your medications and made so much then you know. One of things we really have to come to grips with is this is not about the old. It's about all of us. That is an exciting and excellent example of just being focused on what is the consumer do and what are the daily job that they do and how do you help them as a business do it better. And you know I got to say a lot of people are taking vitamins and they're not 90 they're you know whatever 30 and they want to keep them straight and this thing is revolutionizing off a lot of young people wearing

glasses out there. Exactly. We are at 8 7 7 3 1 8 9 7 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. Going to take your calls when we come back after the break. You can also send us a tweet or write to Facebook. We're talking about living older longer and what innovations are in the works to improve our quality of life as we get older. I'm joined by Joseph Kaufman the founder and director of the AIDS lab at MIT. We want to get you in on the conversation. Come on boomers we know a lot of you are turning 65 companies know you're a key demographic with strong and long lasting purchasing power. Can you tell when marketers are targeting you as someone who is older. Is it a turn off. Listeners what kind of product design would you like to see on the market that would make life easier for you as you get older. We're 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 8 9 7 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. We'll be back after this break stay with us.

Support for WGBH comes from you. And from Davis mom Andy Augustine PC attorneys at law. At Davis mom they make your business their business on the web at Davis mom dot com. D A V I S M A L M dot com. And from the Museum of Science and the new Charles Hayden Planetarium where you can zoom through 10000 stars walk on distant planets and search for undiscovered worlds only at the Museum of Science M.O.s dot org. Two years after opening his award winning Chicago restaurant on Linea famous for its menu chef Grant Achatz was diagnosed with stage 4 tongue cancer after radiation and chemo. He lost a sense of taste but it's been returning and he's about to open a new restaurant and he's written a new memoir which we'll talk with him about on the

next fresh air this afternoon at two on eighty nine point seven WGBH. You rely on public radio for stories like this a month now most fuel trucks bound for Afghanistan have been stopped at the border. Can you say simply we're winning. This is one of the last times Josh APS-C will sit down for dinner with his parents before heading back to Iraq. The city has a WGBH sustainer you can enjoy the convenience of monthly installments and automatic renewal plus your gift becomes part of the most reliable income for public radio. Support the programs you rely on as a WGBH sustainer online at WGBH dot org. Everybody has his own story the world he has he didn't get in from his belongings he was good by luck. Coming up at 3 o'clock on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. I'm Kalee Crossley This is the Kelly Crossley Show if you're just tuning in we're talking about

getting older and what it takes to live a healthy and productive life well into our 70s 80s and beyond. I'm joined by Joseph Kaufman founder and director of the AIDS lab at MIT. Listeners were 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. So are you mad that you're getting older and have to think about different kinds of products or the way in which you might arrange your life so that you can function better in the world. Does the Siri that Joseph Kaufman has just advanced that aging is disruptive resonate with you. Give us a call at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. And yes of course when we have a caller this is Mickey from Beverly. Go ahead please you're on eighty nine point seven WGBH. Thanks for taking my call. I'm going to be 72 this month. I have to work. I was laid off May of 2009 from my job.

And they told me keep London. But with maybe 22 I was given the job and I was employed for 20 months. I finally did find a part time job to supplement Social Security because you can't live on Social Security. You know you pay your rent with it. And my job apart from going to that job is not looking my age. OK when I went to interviews I discovered I better I better work. You know because they are talking to you and they're enjoying speaking with you and and I really believe I look my age and I know I exercise I workout I eat healthy I think of myself as you know I kind of find it shocking when I realize how old I am. I make you let's let jess of Kaufman respond to you.

You know this is you know a strategic value and it does not necessarily help the individual but the good news for for older workers per se is that we had fewer children as baby boomers. There's a drop in the population behind us and it's going to last for a good five to 10 years. And people like yourself have the knowledge not just the labor but the knowledge of what makes business work. And one of my colleagues David DeLong has a book called Lost Knowledge. So when we retire or leave for whatever reason we don't just take the arms and legs that is labor. We take the very core of what business is and you know so you're bringing a lot to the table. You know otherwise that has nothing to do with your age of course. And you know it's a simple matter of getting past what we've been discussing which is a little bias about who older people are and how they function and perhaps less than empathy from those who are not your age. And I guess Mickey you bring up something else that's very important about business. Not being able to get past age or what they think is older age. But business also needs to reinvent the

workplace we need to think more about health and well-being of the worker redesign it for lighting and be able to move around safely and competently and probably on both sides for the employee as well as the employer. Rethinking education so that basically you're educated all the way through a life time so that you're a productive and contributing worker not just a kid who graduated at 21 with a degree. Thank you very much McHugh for the call. Thank you. You know one of the things that it's interesting to me is that so many conditions and that happen to people often are associated with old age and has nothing to do with it. So I'm thinking about all these young kids with this earbuds in their area hearing loss happens cumulatively and it starts quite young. And so you know at 70 you think oh it was just because I'm oh no it's because you start running your hearing early on and lucky for us. And that's something that can these are the kinds of conversations and products and making people understand the same thing with lighting in an office. It's not just for the old folks.

You know in old age begins at birth we need to start planning for longevity so with you're going to use those ear buds are you going to be sitting on the beach you know without the suntan lotion. What's that going to mean for your ability not just to live but to live well in your 60s 70s 80s and beyond. Give me an example of a product but well you know our callers are lining up here but I want to have a prime example of a product that you are working on now that you know can go generate also are going to example in pri one of things that is most often visible outside my lab in around Cambridge and white colleagues of mine BRIAN RAYMER and Bruce Miller and others are working on what's known as the aware car. And I want you to imagine a car that is not only sensitive to the traffic that's around you but sensitive to your physiological performance are you stressed. Are you fatigued. And then having that car change in real time it's performance to make sure that you are an optimal driver. And 70 percent of Americans over age 50 do not live where transit serves or serve well. So for many of us the car and the House is not just a symbol of success in later years it may become a symbol of our isolation so the

aware car is a new technology that we hope will keep people connected to all the things they love. OK we have another caller Greg from North Kingston Rhode Island Please go ahead. I tell you it's very interesting because right now I'm going through this with my elderly mother and we're trying to keep it all but we were having a very hard time like I did. And I I think it's interesting that marketing and advertising and driving driving this these issues rather than moral moral issues because I have a lot of friends are in the same situation and a lot of people in the roles of people in the nursing home in the blink of an eye. And it's I guess it's good that advertising is driving it now but one would hope that moral issues would have driven it a long time ago. All right thank you very much for the call. Well I understand where he's coming from but you know business is really the engine here not so much advertising advertising as a piece of that. But you know aging global aging in particular is too big for business too big for

government and too big for any one family. This requires all institutions and all individual start thinking and planning ahead for their own old age and for those they care about you know to the caller's point about you know his mom and others think about the statistic 40 percent of women over age 65 in United States live by themselves. Aging to NE in August United States even in Asia and Europe aging today is a Home Alone experience. So it's not just moral. It's about how do we maintain our connectivity to everyone and everything and how are those people functioning in the community and contributing something to contribute. Judy from Arlington you're on the Cali Crossley Show 1:07 WGBH go ahead. My Actually my question has to do with what he was just saying Hi this is somebody at an assisted living facility every day and she was a clerk in the Federal Reserve System her whole life and it cost between five and six thousand a month for her to live in this place. Well somebody nowadays middle

class kid never will never be able to afford I'm almost 60 now thanks to 20 years from now what would something like that cost per month. We don't have the money let alone to put our kids through college but to save for this eventuality. So I wondered if your guests they must be talking about what they envision the housing situation for the future. My guess would be because I'm up this. The hippie generation we would like co-hosting where you have people of all generations sharing a living space and. People maybe less. This generation the 80 and 90 year old they definitely don't be doing that. They want their own little independent apartment guy you know what I mean. Yes I do Judy from Arlington thanks very much trying to get us out of coffee when our founder director of the AIDS lab and my guest at MIT my guest today to answer your question I want to give out this number one more time. 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and you respond.

Do you know so far the baby boomers are following the tracks of their parents you know by the time you're 50 your marriage your mortgage your memories are in one place the likelihood of you moving from where you live at that point are very very small. Even when the economy was doing well fewer than 10 percent move to the beach in the fairway that we frequently thought about. My colleagues in the lab Ollie Divac and Dick Myrick and other four others are designing a system called the home system and one of things we're hoping to do is to be able to use telecommunications and information technology in general to be able to help you with nutrition medication and the you know the logistics of old age. But something else can we imagine where we use to stay socially connected not just to the annoying adult daughter who calls us every day to make sure we took our pills but to talk to her grandchild or to a bunch of friends to share recipes. So I think we need in technology level to start thinking about how do we improve that connectivity. And then finally if we do see I have a vision of intergenerational living. We need to redesign our communities so that it's possible for a 20 year old to live in

the same community as an 80 year old because there's benches there's lighting things to do communities that have the intensity and density of quality of life not just a place to go to work. And you're not a gerontologist But in those studies we have found that when there are mixed generations people do better overall. There is a richness you know frankly I think anyone who's a same age and you stick around them long enough it gets boring. You know we all did that in college it was fun for four years but now we're done. OK. Patty from Weymouth you're on the Cali Crossley Show Go ahead please. Hi thanks for taking my call. I post I think that I think it's really an interesting show. It's great and I think my my biggest thing is my parents are older. My dad isn't able to drive and I know you just touched on the fact that you know a lot of women who are older they live by themselves. And I think the biggest problem is that there isn't enough public transportation in Massachusetts I mean it doesn't reach out far enough and I think that that's something that needs to be addressed and if it's not at the embassy or purse it could be I know there's the rise but I

think there needs to be other things in place and I think that sometimes accepting that a disconnect between the other way. Because I'm I'm I'm not being here as well and I think that we've been I think about my parents doing something with technology that it's just not realistic I mean my dad can barely see you have macular degeneration. It's just not something he can do. You know you cannot use that knowledge you know that we can save things when with thinking about these people who are out there by himself. Patty from Lima thank you very much for the call and you know I have to say just a cough and I was just in Florida where people were in uproar because the governor had turned away the federal funding for light rail. And this addresses something of what Patty is talking about I mean there are other issues of course but one of them is this access for people. Yeah I think there are there are two things that are responded to the caller's very good points. First off transportation needs to be redefined in this country period it is not just about buses and it's not just about trains you know the fastest growing segment of transit today is demand response which is what we call the ride and other such systems. People live

mostly in the suburbs and rural areas and small communities. We have a very transit rich community here but we still have a very long list of people who need to go not just to the doctor not to the grocery store but for a nice cream cone visiting a friend. Secondly she mentioned her dad not using technology because of vision reasons and many of us as adult children often say our parents would never use a piece of technology rhetorically speaking do you know what you call a technology an older adult won't use bad technology. OK so it's bad design bad value and it does not provide the value for that person to either be able to use it because they can adjust for sight but also doesn't provide the value for that person wanting to use it. So yeah we need to rethink technology and we also need to rethink transportation. And here in Boston you know we just had a really interesting and scary report but a reporter for a Boston Magazine looking at the shabby state of affairs for the NBA so you know our central piece of that even even in town it's not where Ken cannot serve everybody.

We are blessed with one of the best transit systems in the country here and we can always do better. Exactly. All right. Christopher from Providence Rhode Island you're on the Kalak rosti show go ahead please. I have folks I have two quick observations one of which I just covered and that is the electronics. I mean why can't these folks make the differentiation between the plant and the electronics box more visible. So like me I'm 68. The second quick run. Turn signals in cars. I think there should be and should be capable of adjusting so that they can be made a rider I want to read a lot of Queen concerts and God knows that when I was younger giving isn't quite spread but it should be. I'd like to be able to turn the volume on the turn signal so that when I'm going over the fabrication outside Newport I'm not clicking it all the way to standards down. And if it takes a lot more important some way from both my parents where equation and they

both have a lot of trouble with hearing aids getting them and the design was clumsy they couldn't play them with their fingers and the batteries were just an enormous problem. That's my question thank you. Rematch Christopher go ahead. I'm sure I'll be setting my hearing aid bill the Jimmy Buffet Mr. Smith at some point. But when you're one of the trends in technology that I think that older adults and younger adults will be very pleased to see is that hopefully will not see many of these phones with these very large buttons or devices that look very clinically clunky. The trend line is personalization. So if you want to make the font bigger it's not because you're an older man you can't see it's because that's what you like and you can dim out other information. You know a phone that would be more personalized to what you want on the fly. So that's part of it. With respect to hearing aids and hearing problems this is one of the greatest challenges facing the baby boom generation because of music and age and a variety of other things. A study came out earlier this week from Johns Hopkins that indicated the three quarters of people over 75 have some hearing deficit.

Only 20 to 25 percent of those however use hearing aids. So we really do have a gap between adoption of technology and the need for that system. And I have to say I had an experience last week with an older acquaintance. She has two hearing aids very expensive top quality. She can't hear a thing. And I had a conversation with someone afterwards and apparently because of this new technology you have to use it differently. So there's also a gap between people getting products that are supposed to do everything for them but they don't quite understand how to use it. You know even the best engineers don't get that the technology is not good enough in its own self that you have to learn. You have to teach people how to adopt it. And services are going to be as critical to how to use the technology well as anything else and I'll give you one great example of both of us are familiar with us as we can both see is eye glasses eye glasses. Frankly our assistive technology but we now call them eye wear. We've got personalized services and we've made them a style statement.

When aging goes mainstream and we can make it cool then you will see innovations that will light up your day and you'll also see someone to assist people with these new devices to to let them know how they can improve the use of a geek squad meets older tech exactly that. Hey that's great. Eileen from Framingham you're an eighty nine point seven WGBH Go ahead please. Yes good afternoon. One of my ideas would be to have I class bring it with you in a built in. Bring on the fun. If it's a woman her earrings could be hearing day. Yeah they love it. They're coming out with magazines and even they even tried the newspaper in my town with the printing beige on brown yellow on brown or pink on red. No not even my young friend can read it. So I wish that would change even math to do it brought it out I was ready to call her I was so ma'am. The thing I think all the grocery stores with these big big carriages. We don't need that we just need one that's smaller if

you can get it too deep but they're too big They're like the big big family as well as older people we don't need that. So that would be great if they would. The grocery and the grocery cart and did I mention universal seat belt bans all have the right as I can use my seat belt they can't and every time I go into a different they open in a different way. Some of them are so heavy you couldn't quite move them to the thing in my own home I didn't want to and it's not allowed. I took out the door frames and had them built in bigger ones so when the day when I get old I'll be able to have some wheelchair or something to go through the frame. Well you're very on top of it I leave the thing I had to replace the toilet with the new water the water saver make sure I got a high. Had to order it special but I got high oil and because my friend that got old had to put some sort of a festival on that. If they couldn't they couldn't get up from them there was no law.

Exactly. So they had some ideas. Thank you very much I like the listener and the caller is a poster child for what we should do. You know we think about old age did you plan for your retirement. We should be planning for longevity. Where are you going to live. How are you going to get around outside the house inside the house. Business and Government can only go so far at the end of the day we're going to have to make sure that we stay connected and engaged in well one of the things you said in your blog is that you know we need to get pay as setting a number. You know some you know how are you ready for retirement number wise and really think as you just said about long do you have any and living exactly so. So rethinking for instance the future of work you know retirement was based upon the 60 or 65 number for those who worked with their bodies in their bodies Jenny when they gave out staying educated so you can stay in the workplace even part time and that needs a little compromise on the user and in the companies as well. But also really thinking about you know retiring someplace that you can get around stay connected. Access health care and have friends. And by the way the baby boomers want really high end kind of stuff too

they're just they want good functioning products but they want something that addresses the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed you don't want to just live longer they want to live much better than their parents. I was reading one of these articles and I designed this fabulous home that addresses so many of the issues that we talked about. For people growing older and tenants complain because there was no place to put their kayaks which I thought was just a perfect example of you know what we're talking assistive kayak. OK all right. So Jane from Lawrence you're on the Cali Crossley Show Go ahead please. Hi. It's really been fun listening to your callers because I'm a geriatric social worker and I work with a totally different population and age 60 to 100 and actually I think by and forming and more of them are frail and home and so their world they're already smaller and all of us will have some limitations. My question is can they please design something or issue. In other words a walker. If people are

willing to use it and are not embarrassed do you right. Because all prevention all all asleep all the time. That's right. Thank you very much Jane from Lawrence of Kaufman. Are you all working on this. You have to move is to live. And and so you have to mobility is of critical importance whether it's a car or a walker and if there were a transit the real what the caller points out is what we hopefully are doing in the lab aging is a multidisciplinary sport. You need designers psychologists engineers working together and how you will live tomorrow not just how many birthdays you will have tomorrow. I want to just give our listeners a chance to understand all of the companies you were working with. So at least some of these people are beginning to think about things. British Telecom A R P That makes sense. AstraZeneca General Mills Masterfoods Procter and Gamble they're the number three greatest company couldn't afford so her health weighs a number of great companies out there that are really looking at the future of old age.

New Balance for instance our neighbors are really thinking about not just living but living with vitality and not waiting until you know on the moment that the baby boomers just go completely crazy but you know really addressing it early start today. What's your number one product right now that you think is right on the cutting edge. I think on the cutting edge right now would probably be going to split the differences between our aware car in our home keeping you mobile and connected while keeping you safe happy at home. Well I'm waiting for that car that parks it for you because I'm a terrible Parker and I've always been a terrible Barker. And then they do it age just of cough when you've been a delight to talk to and very important information. And I know we'll be having this ongoing conversation. Great to be here thanks for having me thank you. I'm Kelly Crossley we've been talking about aging and what it takes as we live longer to stay healthy happy and productive. I've been speaking with Joseph Kaufman founder and director of the AIDS lab at MIT. Thanks again. Up next we look at the Freemasons and why a wave of young rockers is joining the age old fraternity. We'll be back after this break. Stay with us.

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Celtic So you're not on any 9.7 WGBH. I'm callin Crossley This is the Kelly Crossley Show the Freemasons are a famously esoteric society that dates back to the 16th century. Rock stars of the American Revolution like Benjamin Franklin and Paul Revere were members. And today real life rockers from the Boston music scene are becoming Freemasons. Joining me to talk about the why why the principles and rituals of the remains is Mason's appeal to local rockers or Eugenia Williamson of the Boston Phoenix. And J.R. Roach he's a drummer bassist and Master Mason of the amicable lodge in Cambridge Welcome to you both. Thank you. Thank you. First listeners I just have to destroy your vision of the rocker that JR Roach is supposed to be very GQ dressed today. I'll suited up with a tie and no tattoos visible No. Well my my rocker days are a little behind me but I was on the road for

about 16 years. OK so the hair is a little shorter and the ties are more prevalent than street cred. Thank you JR before I get to you I want to turn to you Genie and just ask how did you get onto this story. Well we have an Adams who does illustrations for the Phoenix on occasion. Rumor was flying around the office that he was a mason and he was you know a farmer farmer rock guy and I thought well that's the strangest strangest thing I have to have to peek into that so I ended up getting coffee with him and there it was. Now is this just particular to this area because you know I mean I'm across the country lots of former rockers may not be joining in the numbers that you've seen it right. I think it might be pretty special to say although somebody told me that L.A. might have a run on Boston for the number of tattooed Masons I think it might offend him. This is. True they had a big piece in L.A. a couple of years ago about the number of young men who were joining the fraternity. So what appealed to you. Well I had a little bit of a family background though

those members of my family passed away before I could have ever spoken with them about it. So I was a little curious about it anyway. But I was looking into it on my own and I discovered through a friend that a actually someone who has I believe dined with you on a couple of occasions Reverend Hank Pearse is a is a member of a past master of my lodge and I went down to visit him and the rest is history. You know we. We really hit it off. And you know it just snowballs from there. Somebody joins they enjoy the experience they recommend it to their friends and their their friends recommended to their friends and it just goes from there. Is there a particular appeal you know to former rockers that might something that might be in common with what happens in the lodge. Well I think people in the arts community tend to be

of the philosophical ilk and they're certainly. A lot of philosophy. Far better men than me have spent their entire lives writing about the subject. And so there's everything from you know there's a little bit of pomp and circumstance there is the ritual and I mean let's let's face it performance is a ritual of sorts. The exchange of energy between performer and the audience. So I think that there are a lot of different things that could appeal to to people from the arts community in the fraternity and about the generational thing happening. Is this do you think a natural turning or all of a sudden younger people are looking for some traditional kinds of organizations. Well I think there's an argument for both. I think that these things are a bit cyclical but I also think that you know

the the media and and Hollywood have done the fraternity a great favor in recent years between you know movies like National Treasure in books like Dan Brown is written. Yeah The Lost Symbol. You know that's raised the profile of the fraternity in the public for sure. But I think generally generationally it is something that's just a little cyclical. Now Eugenia speaking of that pop culture influence how much do you think it's it is had an impact on drawing people who may not have thought about it before. I think well in talking to people affiliated with the masons It seems like totally piqued a lot of people's interests and I think that you know oh that coupled with the fact that messages this was the first state to implement this program where they open up their lodges to people which they did around the time when these movies were coming out. I think it really got people into the idea of joining a secret society I mean who doesn't want

to you know rule the world. OK. After we decide what we're having for a while. I just want to throw out a few names of famous Freemasons in case people didn't know that Mel Bloch who as you know is a cartoon voice character actor Birch by U.S. Senator. This is just some of the people. Gene Autry Lionel Hampton jazz master. Can we say i'm flume a Who was the past president of the ACP when Stan Churchill Eddie Cantor. This is just a few and Nat King Cole. And like you know hey this is a pretty good list. I could go on and on. So you're really joining quite the fraternity. Well there is actually a little bit of a tradition in New York City I believe the lodge is called St. Cecilia's if I'm remembering correctly that the nickname used to be the Tin Pan Alley lodge because these guys like Irving Berlin and John Philip Sousa was a member and

so there there has been an arts presence in the fraternity since the beginning. Absolutely. OK so this is all male bonding because there are no women Freemasons right. Well there are freemason organizations affiliated organizations like order of Eastern Star and Amaranth that are for women. And there is definitely a movement internationally more in Europe for for women Freemasons. And you know it's an it's an interesting subject. In fact Mozart's famous opera The Magic Flute is really born from the relationship of the mainstream Masonic Lodges in Vienna at the time and what were called lodges of adoption which were Masonic Lodges for women at that time.

You do you have a sense of where Massachusetts may fit in the national scene in terms of Freemasonry you know drawing new folks or more interest less interest. Where are we on the map with that. My impression is that it seems to be at the vanguard of what's going on to recruit new members because it's one of the older. The sonic establishment in the country I think they're implementing a lot of new measures like opening. They were the people to spearhead that opening the doors to people. And there seems to be that right there's a lot of research well OK actually Massachusetts is the third oldest grand lodge in the world. It's the oldest in the Western Hemisphere and the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts is leading all other Grand Lodges in the Western Hemisphere in net. Yes net gain in membership. Wow. So we are the vanguard. We are number one right now. So what's that relationship like. I'm going to ask you to describe what she saw. But you know

from a personal standpoint with the older guys how do they view that. Oh they they love it. You know these guys have been in the fraternity for a long time. They're very fond of it they want to see it keep going. There's a very important part of Masonic ritual that says Freemasonry regards no man for his worldly wealth or outward appearance. So whether somebody has long hair or dresses differently than you makes very little difference to too many of the veteran members. Do you what do you observe. Well I talked to Steven Carroll who runs the Salvation Army for Cambridge and surrounding environs and he had nothing but affection for the younger people in his lodge and I sort of was trying to push him into telling me something about how he may have reacted to these sort of young upstarts that tend to say these rockers or something but he just you know he was very.

He was elated that so many young people had joy and he said I see them as my sons. Yeah OK. Now the highest point you can get is 33 and a third. Can you say if you're there are you know it's not 33. It's the thirty third degree 30 There you go you go. It's actually you know it's an honorary degree of independent body called the Scottish Rite. OK. And there is really within Freemasonry when you join your local lodge you go through three initiation ceremonies and at the third you're made a Master Mason and all of the other organizations you may join have fancy titles or have numbers after after the name are really considered within the fraternity are considered lateral moves. So yes I'm a I'm a 30 second degree scotch right Mason but I'm a Master Mason first and foremost. And how many master me I don't know the numbers are there. I mean does it like a big maze and then Mr. Mason has a hierarchy.

Oh you mean from them. Yeah yeah. As far as the numbers in the membership well in Massachusetts we have about 40000 Master Masons and about a quarter of those are 30 second degree Scottish Rite Masons. OK. You can also join another couple of branches there's the York right. You may have heard of the Knights Templar. That's that. Yeah. The top organization in the New York right and then of course the Shriners which you have to be a Master Mason in order to be a Shriner. So tell us why this is different from any other sort of you know male organization you might have joined with similar goals I guess. Well I think that many fraternal organizations don't order or don't offer the options for participation that we do. It really is you know as corny as it sounds it really is the situation where you get out of it what you put into it. If you are into anonymous giving and charity then you can do

that if you're into antiquity in Historical Genealogical studies you can do that through the Masons. If you want to study esoteric philosophy you can do that if you're interested in actually participating in the ritual you can you can do that there. There are so many different things that the organization has to offer that someone can really join and join this thing that is so old but at the same time make it their own. All right well it's very impressive. I think we're going to beat out L.A. in terms of getting the L.A. rockers Eugenia What do you think. Oh yeah I think it's a definite possibility. I was just surprised and the other thing I was surprised about was the number I had heard about the number of recent Harvard graduates who are joining and they have their own lodge with him. But then the Grand Grand Lodge Yeah it's just yeah.

Well if you watch the social network then everything's out a secret for half an hour or so you know why I have this one right but there's a different appeal is as J.R. has it in terms I think the tradition in some ways even for people who've been nontraditional such as yourself in terms of you know the kinds of activities that you were participating in as a young man says has a different kind of appeal as you age and you know that's kind of a theme of our show today. Absolute. And I could see that you're really enjoying it. I actually really want to know what goes on in there but I guess you can't say I can't show you any handshakes or anything and I could but I can tell you we walk around in circles a lot you get what we walk around in circles. You won't come in circles that know we we perform these initiation ceremonies. But that's very that's a very small part of what we do OK. Yeah right. Well I appreciate your telling us all about what's going on. We have been talking about the intersection of the local music scene and the Freemasons My thanks to both my guests here. I've been speaking with Eugenia Williamson

of the Boston Phoenix. You can check out her story on the Freemasons at Phoenix dot com. I've also been speaking with J.R. Roche. He's a drummer bassist and a Master Mason of the amicable lodge in Cambridge and we're going out on one of his songs. This is the band Sam black church and their track. We come in peace. There you go J.R.. Nothing that's very much. Thank you Delia. Thank you very much. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley follow us on Twitter our friend the cow across the show on Facebook. It's the kallah costly show reproduction of WGBH radio.