Public Affairs; Oteri-Burke

Good evening and welcome to the third in a series of lectures debates and panel discussions and films presented by the drug drug inquiry commission of Holy Cross College drug Inquiry Commission is a Student Operated commission utilizing the advice and help of the counseling center at Holy Cross and is sponsored by the administration of the college. The commission seeks to educate polocrosse students as well as the Worcester community in the US and in the abuse of drugs. At the conclusion of this program this general program the drug inquiry commission there will be a poll taken from among the Holy Cross students to determine student attitudes toward the use and toward the users of drugs. The Commission's inquiry has two basic educational purposes. It make use makes use of the Drug Information Center which is located in the demand library of the college and an eight part lecture

film series extending over a three week period. Tonight is the legal night in the forum and as part of this general forum we are pleased to have with us three distinguished guests. On my left is Joseph esoteric. He was a graduate of Boston College Law School a member of the Massachusetts Bar Association and the American Bar Association is a partner of the crane and the firm of Boston is most noted as the attorney who has participated in the first public defense of of the a marijuana law offenders in the New England states. Sitting next to him on my left is Mr new show at a Boston attorney and professor at Boston University Law Institute. Mr. Shad is a graduate of the Harvard University Law School. He is a member of the ad hoc review

committee of the national committee on mental health. He has he has offered a chapter chapter in a book entitled LSD law man and society is several positions include an assistant professor Shipp of legal medicine at the Law Medicine Institute of Boston University. He is a lecturer at Tufts Medical School and he is a partner in the firm of and flash on my right is Mr. George Burke who is the present district attorney of Norfolk County. He's a practicing trial attorney a member of the Massachusetts and federal bar. He's a graduate of the University of Massachusetts and a graduate of the Boston College Law School. I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you that the drug Inquiry Commission will present directorates of the psychedelic information center of Boston and informal discussion

will be conducted in rooms for 13 for 24 January 24th. The subject of the discussion will be the drug scene. I would also like to know the schedule change for Wednesday January 30 first in addition to Dr. Leo Cass who is already listed on the program published throughout the college. We are going to be able to welcome Dr. Leo Alexander and Reverend Reverend W. used in clock in a panel discussion on the philosophic religious aspects of drugs. After this debate this evening between the members of the panel will welcome questions from the floor and after the questions have been resolved we will move into the mezzanine lounge for coffee. We have a staff established here a format which is going to be extremely flexible according to the needs of the members as we proceed.

We will begin by Mr Shi'ites offering an opening comment. Then there will be an opening statement by Mr Terry and an opening statement by Mr Buck Burke thereafter we will simply play by ear until we offer from the floor questions to the various panel members. MR SAT. Thank you very much Dr. Green. I began my work with the drugs. Also as a moderator moderator of a program involving Dr. Timothy Leary about a year and a half ago he was debating if you could call it that. And Dr. Norman Zinn Brera who was more or less against the unbridled use of LSD and and Mary's other drugs that Dr. Larry was a spazzing. We had dinner together the three of us and I satisfied from Dr. Leary as I could and watched my coffee cup throughout the evening.

And I think tonight we I'd like to begin by just saying that I think we are involved with a colossal failure. That the law. In this area in regulating drugs and regulating conduct in this area has failed. Now maybe tonight we can talk about why it failed and what can be done for the future but one thing is clear we have more abuse of the law. More disobedience of the law than in recent years particularly in this drug area. And I suppose the question is which way do we go toward the more stringent or toward the more lenient the president's message the other evening as you probably are aware called for the more stringent view he wanted to add one third more Treasury agents add 100 U.S. attorneys and really concentrate on on a crackdown. And. Well I don't think I'll say too much more because I wouldn't want to assume the appearance of a

biased moderator. So I think we should proceed directly to the opening statements and then have open discussion afterwards. I remember a reminded of the fellow who. Open his drug store his pharmacy and he couldn't understand why he didn't have much business and he had a large sign over the front door that read. We dispense with accuracy and he couldn't understand why he had so little business I hope we can bring accuracy here tonight and keep you interested with a discussion of the legal aspects of drug usage and marijuana in particular. Mr. Terry would you begin the evening. I'd like to begin by saying that I'm amazed at the change in the Jesuit institutions. Having been educated quote unquote at one I'm amazed that they even allow me to come here to speak

to you. Fifteen years ago when I was attending D.C. I'd have been lynched and I'd try to come up and speak to anybody about the subject I'm here on tonight. If any of you in the audience expect me to tell you to turn on and start smoking drugs are going to be bitterly disappointed. That's not my bag. I think it's a it's a terrible thing to do and we'll get to it. The thing I'm most concerned with and quite frankly I'm sure that the district attorney when he finishes you'll find it with we're not very far apart at all. I think drugs are an escape. I don't think anybody should turn to drugs. But unfortunately in a society that has six million alcoholics nonfunctioning and probably another six million functioning and in a society where beef when we get home from the office we have to have a couple of my before we can unwind a little drugs. He had a stay and my argument is that there's got to be some intelligent way to handle drugs now being an audience of Holy Cross students. I'm sure there's

nobody out here who's ever turned on with a little grass. So I have to tell you what it's all about. I'll take a couple of some of you may have friends who have but I'm sure none of you have. Now I have to tell you just a little bit about what grass is. Marijuana grass blue Mary-Jane cannabis all the generic names. It's a plant and until I got interested in this I didn't know the plants came in male and females of the species the plant name is cannabis sativa. It grows in India that's recorded history goes back over 3000 years. The plant we smoked most in America when I say we I exclude myself. I have enough trouble with my teen years without using marijuana. But the plant that smoked here in this country is the marijuana that comes basically from Mexico. Now the male marijuana plant is a small rather puny plant. And has no active ingredient in it and you could smoke it all day and it would do nothing for you. Like

in real life the female is the source of all the trouble of the female of the cannabis species contains the active ingredient in the flowering tops the leaves in the stems. This active ingredient is known as tetrahydrocannabinol. It has recently been synthesised and I'll get off this boring subject very quickly and get in something you want to hear but let me just Fittingly it has recently been synthesised and. Now we're having a series of experiments where we can measure the effect of certain amounts of tetrahydrocannabinol on marijuana on the nervous systems of people and their psychological and psychiatric effects. Now that should at least give you an eye for an idea to know what it is. Basically marijuana is an intoxicant in the same sense that alcohol is an intoxicant. Now marijuana is generally smoked in a public kind of a display in private by this I mean it's smoked in a social setting normally normally and well in certain

colleges not too far from here on a Friday night you could get what's known as a contact high in the Dhamma Tory's. If you walk through the dorms at 5 or 6 o'clock on Friday night the clouds would get you high there's so much more I want to being smoked and what they do is you get six or eight or 10 kids and you'll sit around in a room and you draw the blinds and lock the windows and bolt the door and you all sit down on the floor. And you'll either smoke a joint which is a marijuana cigarette I'll light a pipe. But everybody doesn't light their own pipe. There's one pipe light at others one joint light and it's passed from person to person. The social function it's a social kind of a thing. There are three stages of marriage. Now I want to intoxication that you must know something about one of them is the buzz which comes with a certain amount of marijuana generally a minimal amount. Half a cigarette. This is a kind of an assessed state you might achieve any Holy Cross me and I know those drinks pretty good so probably with a martini a martini and a half.

You'd get what might be known as a buzz. Now if you smoked a whole cigarette or a little bit more you might get high. College kids maybe the experience you'd have after six or seven be is you know you status feel real good Nala rest of it. And then of course they have getting zonked which is passing out pretty much. Those are the three stages and they correspond pretty pretty much to the stages of alcohol ingestion. And. The thing about the marijuana. The district attorney tapes me and then uses these statements in court next time I come in you think I'm kidding this is Mike. He plays dirty. But. In the event that before we get into the actual marijuana business in the event that any of you think that drug intoxication the using of drugs is a new thing I'd like to just read something to you. This morning I exhibited blank blank to several of my students and

in some instances with the most powerful effects I have myself inhaled the twice in private and found its operation upon my system to be somewhat peculiar. You know imparts to me a sense of omnipresence I lose all feeling of relation to the earth a sub blue nothings and seem willing to wade through boundless space the only sentient being in existence. My emotions are pleasurable but they are characteristics of vastness grand sublimity and solitude. The influence of the aerial draft continues for a long time and as it subsides I become gradually sensible of my presence upon the ground and look around me with a haughty disdain and towering importance of the great man. That sounds like him weary. Actually it was William biotin Rogers the founder of MIT. When he first was using laughing gas in his in his laboratory and Experion experiments so tripping out is not a new phenomena. This is something that we as a society have to face and cope with. I don't come to tell you to turn on but I do come to tell you that if we

believe truly in individual freedom if we believe truly in the principles which this country was founded upon. I think there's got to be another way to handle a problem such as marijuana. Before we talk about the way to handle it let me just tell you briefly what marijuana is not. There's two views on marijuana. The extreme right wing view would have you believe that if you smoked one marijuana cigarette you would become a mirroring rapist who pillaged and robbed the extreme left wing view would have you believe if you smoked one marijuana cigarette you'd never have another problem the rest of your life. Well they're both full of baloney. There's a view somewhere in the middle and I'd like to get to that with you now. Marijuana basically and I think even Mr. Burke will agree with me on this is not a physically addictive drug. By that we mean you develop no tolerance for marijuana. In other words you can smoke one marijuana cigarette and get high on it today. And if you

smoke one cigarette a day for the next 30 years you'll achieve the same level of being high each day. Unlike booze where if you drink a martini today and get pleasant if you drink that same martini every day over a course of months you're going to need two three four more so that there is no tolerance developed with marijuana. There is no withdrawal syndrome. Now 8 percent of the alcoholics in the United States who go through the withdrawal syndrome die from the withdrawal syndrome. There is no such thing with marijuana you can smoke marijuana daily for a year two years five years 10 years quit. And that's the end of it. Now this is fairly well attested to by that school teacher out in California who smoked it for 14 years and got promoted to principal then was discovered and quit. She certainly hasn't had any problem. Mrs. Brennan. But how we Becca who was a say sociologist from the University of Chicago testified recently in a trial we were involved in that one night he went out with a couple of

marijuana users to make a score. They were going out to buy and they couldn't make the buy they couldn't make the score so they went to the movies instead. And this indicates exactly how necessary and impelling the need for marijuana is. It's a kind of you can take it or leave it alone thing. Now it's not a Mac Kadok and this is one of the real principal causes of all our problems. The classification of marijuana with narcotics. Federal law recognizes this under the federal law. Marijuana is not put in with the Harrison that caught exact because the federal government recognized it wasn't a narcotic they tax it under the marijuana tax act and treat it like a narcotic although they won't call it one. There's no less an authority than the New York Academy of Medicine published an issue in January of 1968 which fell into my hands yesterday Joy. Marijuana is not a narcotic nor is it addicting. It is a

euphoria and mild hallucinogen. So I'll rest on them now. It's not a cause for crying. This is a great saw that when you go over the history of marijuana you find that it's opponents who generally are overzealous police officers are out of work prohibition agents like Harry Anslinger you'll generally find that. These people say if you smoke a marijuana cigarette you're going to immediately commence committing crimes. And they tell all sorts of anecdotal stories about so-and-so Smith murdered seven people while under the influence of marijuana. But when you go into these stories when you check them out when you do any kind of scientific research on them you find that there is not one single bit not one scintilla of evidence to back them up. As a matter of fact the president's recent the recent. What do they call the judge the the President's Crime Commission with the full name for it. The President's Advisory Board on crime or whatever it was called actually which met in Washington recently

absolved marijuana of any kind any problem with causing of crime. They state that the president's commission on law enforcement and administration of justice was a group of some 60 odd doctors lawyers and law enforcement offices. Each of home took part in the writing of a report which absolved marihuana of the commission of crime except that marijuana smoking is a criminal genic thing. In other words you violate the law by possessing it therefore you are breaking the law. But by smoking it you do not go out and commit other crimes. And as a matter of fact there is very very good evidence that marijuana produces a certain sense of well-being and a feeling of relaxation to the extent that you don't want to get up and do anything wrong. Marijuana is used by the Hindu monks to suppress sexual urges and it's used by other groups in society to if they don't serve it in the lunch room and at Holy Cross fellas.

There are other groups in society who have used it for this reason. Yet there are people who will tell you that marijuana. Causes sexual access whatever that is. There's no no scientific basis no evidence to connect this up with it. As a matter of fact the evidence seems to go all the other way that if you smoke marijuana you may lose your sense of inhibitions in that you will verbalize above things but you're really much too content to bother doing anything else. The average person I'm told who smokes marijuana will sit and listen to records. There was a graduate of a local law school not Boston College and swim across the river who worked for me for a short time and told me that under the influence of marijuana he heard the brass and the Haun's on bait Beethoven's Ninth for the first time in his life. This is the kind of thing that's normally done under the influence of

marijuana. It doesn't result in any basic personality changes. In other words if you are a virgin of stilling moral character you're not going to become any kind of a loose person if you smoke marijuana. You may become a very sorry person by virtue of being arrested. But you're not going to have any basic personality change that's going to make you do anything which you would not ordinarily do. The oldest and probably the most frightening star of all is that there's a natural progression from marijuana to heroin. Well this is really been laid to rest by a government study written by a doctor a ball from Lexington who took a witness stand in a recent case and testified flatly that in 16 states there is an association between marijuana and heroin. Unfortunately for Dr. Ball someone else had read the rest of that study and I asked him the question what about in the 12 states where there was no progression and no association between marijuana and

heroin. And this pretty much shows that in no way can you show a causal connection between marijuana use and heroin use. As a matter of fact again and I won't bother reading it to you but going back to the New York Medical Society's statements the lack of correlation between marijuana use and subsequent heroin addiction was authoritatively reported and they go on from there. Today anybody who has done any kind of scientific homework. Will tell you that there's no correlation between marijuana use or there's at least no association cosily between marijuana use and heroin. The place where you may have a problem is with LSD or other hallucinogenic drugs. And again there is nothing inherent in marijuana that causes one to use marijuana and then to use LSD what it is in my opinion is the placing of young people who have experimental personalities into contact with their local con a drug merchant who

will sell a mass if they want to or anything else. And this is part of my objection to the existing laws. I see I'm getting down to my last few minutes basically. Marijuana does not induce psychosis a psychotic breaks which used to be one of the things everyone was afraid of. That has not been a reported psychotic break for marijuana or induction since 1940. One can become psychologically addicted to marijuana. But by psychological addiction Nick Mallinson who is the physician at the University of London and testified and I case I think summed it up very nicely when he said he was asked by Mr. St. Clair in cross-examination Dr.. What do you mean by psychological addiction. And Nick said Well by that I mean when I finish it this quote today I'm going home and I'm going to want my gin and my wife. I'm not sure in which OP but that's what I want. And he then said That's just what it means. I want any one of you is psychologically addicted to cigarettes to good movies to pretty girls to good food.

You can become psychologically to strike that dependent upon any substance which is pleasurable or pleasing. And if that's the worst thing that they can say about marijuana I resent putting kids in jail for using it. Now I won't be able to get into at least in this segment of the alcohol and tobacco pot but I would like to tell you basically some of the problems with marijuana today the biggest problem is it's illegal and anybody who goes near it is a damn fool. Particularly kids who are being given the benefit of a good education and other potential leaders of this country. I think to risk the tremendous harm that can come to you personally for the somewhat dubious pleasures of blowing a joint is damn foolishness. And I can only stress that you'd be absolutely crazy to do it but I would like to tell you some of the things that could happen. Possession of marijuana carries with it a three and a half year sentence in this state in the state's prison possession with intent to sell carries a

five year penalty. These are minimum penalties. Me a presence in a room without knowledge that marijuana is being illegally kept in that room carries with it a five year prison sentence. Now Mr. Brick I'm sure will tell you. That there isn't one district attorney in a thousand who would put a kid in jail for being present in a room where marijuana was kept without knowing it. And I agree he's right. Most District Attorneys and I'll even have to say present company included a very humane and very decent guy and they don't want to ruin Koreas. But the fact of the matter is that once you are arrested in effect your career is ruined because even if you eventually have the case against you dismissed. You still have a record for having been I rested for a narcotic violation. Now go home and drop that one on your parents some night to say that you know someone has been arrested for a narcotic violation. Your father will be following you around the house for a month saying keep away from the dope fiends.

People just don't understand what it is when you're going to apply for a driver's license you have to tell them you were arrested for a narcotics violation you could never be commissioned in the service. You could never hold any kind of a responsible government job. You couldn't become a member of the bat you couldn't become a doctor you couldn't become a teacher or go at the Peace Corps. They effectively foreclose lives segments of your life by virtue of this conviction. This is what I object to now. In the federal courts they are much more enlightened than the state courts in the federal courts if you are caught in possession of marijuana knowing that the tax on it has not been paid and there's a presumption you know the tax has not been pay. You get a mandatory mandatory minimum five year prison sentence. And that happens every day in this country. College students a lugged out for a mandatory minimum five year prison sentences. I won't go into the rest of the federal law except to give you one example.

Transfer of marijuana in the federal law. Now this doesn't mean sale transfer to a mynah carries with it a 10 to 40 year sentence in the federal court mandatory minimum 10 years sentence. Now what constitutes a transfer. This kid sitting right here is 20 the kid next to him is 20 they're roommates. Well in the end comes up to the room knocks on the door this gentleman answers the door is Mike home no. Would you give him is his marijuana cigarette sure takes one marijuana cigarette takes two steps and puts it on Mike's desk. He has transferred marijuana to a minor. He's guilty and has to go to jail for 10 years. Now these are extreme cases but this is what Tommy a lawyer in Georgia in the state of Georgia Texas and Colorado on a second offense of transferring marijuana the penalty must be death. Now you know we laugh you say well a guy should learn a lesson. How about the Holy Cross student strike that the have a student who goes home to Jiajia. I don't think anybody Holy Christ came from Judge a series they

changed it to have a student who goes home for other student who goes home from college at Thanksgiving sitting in the car with Mary Jane. He lights up a joint. She says What is it he tells it gives her a joint she's a minor he's a minor they blow the joint together comes home for Christmas they do the same thing. They have a fight go back. He goes back to school breaks up with her she tells her pappy Pappy goes down to the sheriff and this kid if he's indicted there's two separate offenses two separate times must get the death penalty. Now there's one case that I know of in Washington the state of Washington a first offense a 22 year old college senior was sentenced to 20 years in Walla Walla state prison for selling marijuana. Now the fellow's name is Kerrigan Gray. I have letters in the office from him and there's nothing anyone can do to help him. And this is the risk you face every time you put yourself in a position where you are in and around grass.

I don't think it's worth it I think it's Shiah folly to do it. Now the only other thing I could have just you know I just like to talk to for one minute about what I believe. I don't believe the possession of one ounce of marijuana should be a crime. I think it should be treated as a social medical problem. It should not be a crime. Slowly but surely some of the states are swinging around to this view. Not that it's original with me. New York has cut it down now so the possession of an ounce or less is a misdemeanor rather than a felony. But when you stop and think the National Student Association estimates there are six million students in this country and 25 percent of them have used or are using marijuana. We could in effect wipe out 25 percent or a million and a half kids in a year if everybody got busted and there goes 25 percent of the potential leaders of this country. I think when you have a problem of that proportion and that significance it's about time that we as intellectually free men committed to the cause of freedom stand up and give it a look long hard luck. And we say what we

feel no matter how people's. Well we won't get into how people react to me but I will say this to you. The problem with this marijuana business right now is that the laws were passed in an area in an era of hysteria. There was a narcotics problem and now I want to get lumped in with them. The only people who used marijuana 1937 when Negroes Puerto Rican and jazz musicians and you know who cared about them. Today I guarantee you if you tried to pass the marijuana tax act today it would never get out of committee in Congress because there are too many doctors and lawyers and professors and white collar workers and teachers kids who are jammed up on marijuana and there are too many people interested in seeing something done. But it's unfortunate because you can't now undo the great harm that was originally done. Mr. Burke is going to tell you that high fashion for us one of the narcotic laws will keep people from using narcotics but that just isn't so. In

California in one year the number of marijuana arrests rose in 1966 it was eighteen thousand one hundred sixty seven it was 35000. That's 35000 people whose lives are being ruined. Now even if I am wrong even if all a study and work we've done isn't correct. Even if marijuana is full is it the way to treat another human being who is harming himself by harming them further. Would you take a person who attempted to commit suicide and shoot him. Well that's what you're doing with a marijuana kid. You're saying you're trying to hime yourself. Consequently we're going to harm you even more OT we're going to put you in jail or ruin your career. I think that this kind of thinking is based on a Puritan ethic that no longer has any validity in our country. I think that we've reached a stage where attempts to legislate morality must fail. Morality will be taught in the home. Morality will be taught in the church. It may even be taught in some of the schools but you'll never get forced

morality in the police station. And I think that these marijuana laws and these drug laws morally induced and they are bound to fail because the kids today want to make their own choices. And I tell you that in 1970 50 percent of the people in this country are going to be under 50 under 25 years old of age and it's going to be one hell of a revolution when you kids die voting. And if Judge broke a smile he'll play to you and he'd be president. But again all I can say to you is. It just it just isn't worth the aggravation. Keep away from it. If you do get blasted. Remember don't answer any questions don't answer any questions demand the right to call your parents your school your attorney and hire a good competent hard working lawyer nameless and will and will hope that you get a district attorney like Judge who can see that you really deserve a shake and are really a decent person and perhaps your

life won't be totally ruined. Thank you for. Thank you very much Joe I was going to introduce Mr. Burke but you've used up all this time so now I will introduce District Attorney Burke and Joe keeps saying that he doesn't really differ very much with Mr. Burke. I'm not really sure that's the case Mr. Barry. Me and. Thank you very much Mr. Moderator. Actually Joe. On a time schedule here.

It's the opening statements by Mr. Oteri 10 to 15 minutes. And he spoke a little bit better than a half an hour. So this is really quite an indication. As you know in his opening remarks he mentioned that he had strictly Jesuit training. You know once they open their mouth they can't stop him. Also I notice he told you all my arguments. He said this is my position and Mr. Beck's position is this but it's really no good. There's really no reason Joe for my getting up here and even saying a thing. However I'm just a poor boy that was trained up at the University of Massachusetts.

I notice the university met Massachusetts beat Holy Cross this past week so we. But actually it's a pleasure for me to come here this evening. I always know when I go to a college campus that I'll use the drugs you'll see attend the debate. Also I noticed that as Neal shy yet my good friend the moderator here mentioned he shouldn't say too much because he really sides with Mr Oteri on a lot of comments and they've invited Joe Terry up who's the master in his dialog in favor of marijuana. Then I noticed in all my letters they the subject was the use and abuse of drugs. I got up here and I looked at the bulletin board it said marijuana in the law. So I said I really thought the cards were being stacked against me.

However I did see a few beers in the audience and a few lying here so they really make me feel quite at home because you know I attended a university not too long ago as a matter of fact I'm the youngest district attorney in the state of Massachusetts. And I did attend six various universities here in these United States and when I was on campus I grew a beard so I suppose if I was on campus today I'd grow long hair. I mean anything to rebel. And that's the way I felt about it and I was like that I went down the cape every summer and had a ball for myself down there and I really feel that if I was on campus today that I'd be sitting here listening to a district attorney debate and I know that anyone who's for motherhood and against sin you know this is really something real tragic and when I come here tonight to

say you shouldn't touch marijuana what an awful thing this is to say and I almost would have to just agree with all your remarks Joel because you agreed with all of mine and. What you I was trying to tell you is that I send all his clients away to prison. It was. Actually the problem of drugs. As far as the area that I represent and I represent 28 cities and towns on the periphery of Boston on the periphery of the main city the so-called urban area and we have found in recent years especially that there has been a tremendous problem among the uses

of drugs and the use of marijuana use of the hide. When I conduct and I always like when I come in and I have debated out a number of colleges on this question but I simply always like to offer out why should we be limited to Joe Terry's position and that is legalize marijuana and not legalize the rest of the narcotics. I mean morphine cocaine heroin. Well this is strictly a moral view was he ended up his summation. This is strictly a Marl sense of whether you should use any of these things. Even those who begin college walking around with a cough medicine bottle in their pocket. You know codeine has it it is a derivative of opium. Eventually as Joe could well tell you as always morphine as so is heroin.

I mean let's take the position let's legalize everything and leave it up to the individual. This is the best thing to do is this what you want to do. Let's also remember too that us sitting here in college as I sat in college a short time ago and I went to law school and eight years ago I was spending a great portion of my time down on Beacon Hill going to parties and having a ball for myself. But let me remind you of one thing that you have values that you have today all the values that you had in high school a few short years ago have changed and you have come to college your values have changed and you're in a steady process of thinking for yourselves and rebelling against authority and doing things the way you want to do it. Well in a few short years and you have to project yourself into those years your values will change again. My values have been changing all my life. I've gone from one end to another and back again several times. But you've got to say to yourself well when I get married. This is my attitude going to be it going

to be the same as it is now. When I have children. Is my attitude going to be the same because before I had any children I always thought in terms of myself. What is best for Judge a boy. Now when I do things I think in terms of my children now this is a difficult thing to do because I never placed myself in that position when I was going to college. And you have to place yourself in that position. You're out trying to change this law and change that law. I have a liberal and an intellectual view. Well this is fine but you've got to remember what is going to be opposition what is going to be our values come 10 years from now and that's how long I've been out. Out of college 10 years. And my values have changed and so will you guys. And you will not want to make this a headon mystic society a society that seeks only pleasure. I remember once there was a philosophy that

stated that we had to suffer. But that's almost you know you can sermonize you can't Marlise you can't do any of these things this is what all the rules say if you ever read a book on statements on appearing before college campuses don't sermonize don't Marlise don't bring up philosophies don't bring up the goodies and the baddies. Present them the facts. Well let's look at the facts let's agree with Mr Oteri that there are six million alcoholics in this country. Let's agree that many of them also that I know alcoholics have a problem with it. And I agree with them alcohol is used as a relax and it's used for pleasure. But is that any Agyeman for saying that we want to legalize all the rest of the drugs including marijuana. Do you think that's a logical argument. There's no logic there whatsoever. There's no logic to saying that most auto accidents of a severe nature that you

find a man has been drinking. And this is a proven fact. And so what do we want to do. Do we want to double the number of these auto accidents. Do we want to double the number of people that have become alcoholics instead of beat bian alcoholics by drinking. It's going to because they're taking drugs. There's no real basis in that argument. The real question is do we want to introduce into our society drugs that are inherently dangerous to our society. And I I notice that he mentioned that no one's had a psychotic breakdown since what was the date did you say 1040. And yet he said to me as we were driving up here in the car the doctor Loria. I was going to be used in the defense in his marijuana trial and I just happened to notice that Dr. Gloria says in the LaGuardia report in 1944 it was four years after he mentioned said.

9 of 77 persons given marijuana Rx mentally experiments experienced psychotic reactions in view of these findings that is surprising that the report is used so extensively to substantiate the claim that marijuana is completely harmless. Says marijuana can produce acute panic reactions acute psychotic breaks and profound responses mimicking the effects of LSD. So there is an expert in which both of these gentlemen here agree is an expert in this field. And then as the facts as he mentions them. Now let's look at the history of narcotic addiction in the United States. And let's look at the similarities as to prohibition because this is the first question that is always asked in an audience. Oh this is similar to prohibition. Well it isn't similar Avan prohibition affected an entire society. The

main use of marijuana is George Cherry would be the first one to tell you the teenagers and college students. After that is a shop I shop dropped off. In the people using marijuana. They might go on to something else. And there's a no there's no question that those who use one use another. People like to experiment. When they stop getting a kick from one thing they hear about something else that's better. And believe me in some of our recent drug raids down in not far County we've been finding the pushes down the packaging meth a drain using LSD Heroin many of the other things that we never had a problem with before becoming a problem so the problem is a lot more than just strictly marijuana. Now he mentioned the bugs act he mentioned the Harrison Act the he mentioned the tax act against marijuana in one thousand thirty seven. Well let's remember one thing when we

had prohibition it was an entire society. And now it's limited to the few. Now do we see today any rush down to the legislature to legalize marijuana. Joe do you know if a bill was filed this year to legalize marijuana in the state of Massachusetts. So there is the answer to my question. The answer is that there's no rush to our legislature. There is no rush to Congress. The quote The fact is that when they band in the Harrison Act certain drugs and not contacts in this country that we had approximately two hundred thousand addicts. And as a result of the Harrison Act as a result of the Boggs act as a result of the Narcotics Control Act we have shop Lee diminished 5 5

below that original figure. The drug addiction here in the United States. Now if. If by making illegal the smuggling into this country a certain narcotics or up the manufacture of synthetic narcotics in this country such as last surge of gas and I thought let me. Such as dimethyl tryptamine GMT which is supposedly one of the big things going on here today. If these figures had gone beyond the figures when we rigidly made these things illegal then I'd say there's some validity in the argument. Actually by passing these laws a great many lives have been saved. People that would have no control over themselves and every expert who testified in that trial said the majority of users have some emotional disturbance.

Originally even before they used any of these drugs they had some character problem. Some psychiatric problem. So let's remember these things that those who go on to what and become deeply involved had the problem originally. And they're going to be some individuals who regardless of what we say or do whether it's illegal or legal they are going to use drugs and narcotics because they need them. There are also other individuals in this audience right now regardless of whether it's legal or illegal. I will never use these drugs. Never use them so already from the laws as far as the standpoint of the law. With a limited it a certain segment of our society so then the approach is to the majority in the middle. Whether they are going to become uses whether it's going to become part of life to have a pleasure seeking society. Is this what we are looking for. Well even Dr Loria said that we must react vigorously and continuously against those who win a complex society

would make this a chaotic psychedelic orgy. Now let us look at what the problem is becoming in the suburbs. I myself as district attorney recently had a case in Sharon involving 200 teenagers and college students involved in the use of marijuana. One hundred and ninety seven of them. Had no arrest. No convictions. We took no action against them except to sit down and discuss with them the problems of marijuana. We took the approach that you must first educate yourselves. We must have a certain flexibility in the law. Mr. Terry would have you believe that we have no flexibility. Well the courts of Massachusetts have a tremendous flexibility a nice system of justice is a fine one. And first offenders as every defense counsel who comes into my office says me would you please continue this case without a finding Mr. District Attorney so that there would

be no record against this individual. And he knows in many of the cases that this is what is done with everyone especially those committing a felony in the first instance. We have a fine system here. It's a flexible one. And the law enforcement officials in the state are attempting to educate. They're going to tell me my time's up 15 minutes. And we took no action against 197 of them. The three individuals who went down to New York City and brought back. Marijuana. We indicted because we felt that they placed into this community the marijuana involved only three of them. And when their attorneys came into court. They asked me if I would give them a chance to prove themselves. And continue the case for a year without a finding so that they would be saved from a record. And this was what was done.

So when you hear these statements about these are the laws and this is how hideous This is and that this is how bad that is. Don't listen to these things. And when you hear of an individual case you know many times people come into court and they're charged with a very serious crime say it's a real serious robbery. And connect it with that is a smaller offense even a misdemeanor not a felony. And defense counsel. Will come into court and say look at would you please not cross the M robbery and will plead to burglarious instruments. I will plead to some other offense that was connected with the crime. So then we know the process the serious crime and we sentence him on the small amount but we give him a stiffer sentence than his are ordinarily handed out for the smaller crime. So the first thing they do is go out and tell everyone look at this. He was

caught for speeding and sentenced to a year in court. This is the arguments on the other end that defense counsel would use showing a an exaggeration of the use. On the contrary to the contrary I courts have a fine system and they don't deal harshly with first offenders but I think we have a duty. I think we have a duty in our society to deal most passionately with those who would push narcotics. I think we have to deal harshly with those who would smuggle into the into the country. And let's look at marijuana itself. Joe mentioned that the Fama marijuana and I'm you noticed in his agony he said the kind we get from Mexico. And he mentioned how it had no effect upon the individual. He didn't mention that some forms of marijuana are a lot stronger than that received from Mexico. How she she is a lot stronger and will have a great a much greater effect on you than what he stated.

Banga from India gang show Ross which is another form of marijuana. Will have a much greater effect on the individual. And he mentions that well you can't build up a tolerance with marijuana or you can't become physically addicted. Well this is fine. These are fine words but. You can become psychologically dependent upon these drugs and you might say well that means nothing. But when you develop a less Aji if you develop an attitude of self neglect. If you develop an anti-social attitude these things along be can be it can be the very beginning of decay in a society. Is this the direction that we're heading that we're heading into an era. And I think we do have a problem on these drugs and it's going to get greater. And I don't think it's the question of the law as I think it's the question of the individuals. The laws only have happened to be part of it. But I think we have to do a lot of hard thinking of the type of society that we want to

make for us to live and for our children to live in. I think we have to develop a mature attitude as to what we want to do. But remember this it's only a small group that is pushing to legalize marijuana. Are we going to say to you all right the pro-marijuana group can go out and break the laws with impunity. The pro LSD group can go out and do this. After a while if you allow every group who wants to break the law. That they're involved with you have anarchy. You have a total breakdown in the question. Now this might sound like an old fashioned argument from permissiveness to illegality. But I still believe that if you're going to change something you don't do so by breaking the lies. You change it in your legislature. You change it in the Congress. This is where it should be done and we're not doing it. We're simply going out and breaking the law and this is a breakdown in our society. I think we have to do

a lot of hard thinking about where we're heading. I'm a district attorney that has set up and I think I'm the only one in this state that has set up a total educational program to educate junior high school junior high school students and senior high school students on the question of narcotics. I think we have to educate the individuals to all of the elements involved here. I think we have to explain the laws to him. I think we have to be flexible. I think we have to have expectation and just a blending. All of the efforts on but on the part of college people. On the part of social workers in the help to these people. These people need help. Certainly it's an ex-gay from reality. But by an escape from reality when we turn to drugs and narcotics you're going deeper into that pit of despair and you're never going to come out unless you get away from it.

Let's look at real drug addicts. Let's look at Senate and House. Out in California let's look at the houses down in New York City where these poor individuals have lived lives of agony and misery as a result result of becoming addicted to narcotics. Let's look at them. Let's look at the filth of lived and let's look at the lives that they have destroyed. Let's look at these people who would tell you any addict would tell you that he wished he had never become addicted. Sit down and think about their lives read a few books on this if you're truly interested in the problem. But the torches and help of drug addiction is the worst in the world because the mental anguish involved let alone the physical. Anguish that you go through is unbearable. Is this the life that we want to lead our youngsters into. Legalize marijuana yes and then go on a legal legalize heroin all arrest and you'll destroy the very things that you believe in.

Thank you very much. Ah. Thank you very much Mr. Burke. I thought since Mr. Brick thinks I'm totally in league with Mr. Terry that I'd say a couple of words about my own my own views and my own thoughts on the problem of drug abuse and or want to use in this day. I think that law is heading in the wrong direction just just let me read to you one section of the law which I think will point this up. Every physician and every hospital treating persons suffering from the chronic use of narcotic drugs and remember in our confused legislation narcotic drugs including marijuana just as well as heroin opium cocaine all drugs are very mistakenly I think lumped into one category. Every physician every hospital treating person suffering from chronic use of narcotic drugs shall within 72 hours of the first

treatment therefore furnish the Department of Public Health with a statement in duplicate containing the name address height weight date of birth color of eyes color of hair date treated and the name of the narcotic drug the patient used or suffered from. And this is the sentence that bothers me most of all is the last sentence. And such information shall be made available for the use of any agency of the Commonwealth or of the United States which may require it. So if someone feels they have a drug problem and they want to go to a physician for some help. Within 72 hours he has to send in a report which can be looked at by any narcotics agent or state police officer or district attorney or anyone in the state. I think this is improper I think one of the things we should begin to do is protect the confidentiality of the doctor and patient so that patients will seek out help if they feel they need medical assistance without having to worry that they'll be turned

in as soon as they seek such help. I know several psychiatrists who have in therapy pilots commercial airline pilots who have suicidal thoughts. They do not turn these pilots into the FAA because they know if they did so that any other pilot who was getting sick would not seek help because you know the moment he'd seek help he would be turned in. I've been trying to get a psychiatrist to tell me which airline but they won't. But this is is one thing that I think we've we've neglected here we are. We have people who don't have narcotic addiction problems. They have some problems of adjustment Let's assume for a moment that there's a problem of adjustment. There ought to be some place you can go other than jail. Now we have a treatment center for drug addicts or persons who have drug problems. And you are aware of the tremendous problem that drug abuse is now in this state. How many beds do you think the treatment center has for the whole state. Ten

10 beds and they're not double beds either. And they just added I think 25 more they're about to but and there's a four week waiting list even do to get into initial therapy. If you want help you really have to wait a long time for it. Now I don't think the answer is more stringent legislation. We think we have a glue problem glue sniffing. So the legislature meets and passes a law that everybody who buys a glue must give his name to the vendor. My 6 year old goes in he wants glue for his model airplane. He can write his name. I mean these are the types of laws we have you. We got a glue problem we'll set up a register if you got a register of everybody who bought blue in this state. Well I think I think this is the wrong the wrong approach. I think we've got to first of all segregate out what we're dealing with. And as I see it there are four things that we're dealing with first with dealing with the true narcotics heroin cocaine.

I would agree with anyone who wants to take a strong stand in the pushing of these drugs. And I think that we've got to prevent the importation and use of these drugs. Secondly we have the dangerous hallucinogenic drugs such as DMD that Mr. Burke mentioned and LSD which can cause chromosome damage as Dr. Kass and Dr. Alexander would tell you that this can cause a chromosomal brakes which will not necessarily result in deformed children but which may very well result in the birth of deformed children. And I think that LSD is a dangerous substance and we've got to step up the education and prevent the use of this drug. I still don't think that with LSD use jail is is really the answer. Then we have as a third category the other dangerous drugs such as amphetamines and Bob which are it's what should be treated still differently than the other than the other drugs and narcotics and lastly we have marijuana and it's with marijuana that I personally have the

most difficulty with. Now I am not in favor of legalization. And one reason I'm not in favor of legalization is that because we've formed a team that investigates every automobile accident which involves a single car that results in a fatality within the Route 128 area. And we go out at 3:00 and 4:00 in the morning to find out why these accidents happen. And in 80 percent of these accidents the driver is stone drunk. And if we're going to have marijuana as another cumulative vice of society we're just going to have another Great's substance of people who are going to be taking marijuana and are going to be driving with it. And and this is the problem why I don't think we should really move that quickly toward legalization I'm not sure Mr. Terry thinks we should move towards legalization either but we'll let him speak on that one. What I would would like to see in the state is some possibility of suspension of sentence even suspension of

prosecution in first offenses. It's fine to say that some judges will treat the case lightly and that some district attorneys will keep treat the case lightly. But it is it's a very dangerous thing because there are some judges in the state will look upon any kind of drug abuse in the harshest possible way. And there are those who look upon any prosecution at all as an error. And this is true in the federal court as well. So that there is such a great occasion a gradation of beliefs among the judiciary and amongst the district attorneys that I think we must have some legislative enforced uniformity at least to some degree. And I would go towards treatment at least for the first offender mandatory treatment and not mandatory jail. And this this very basically is my position. Thank you x.