WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. Last week Congress hit the snooze button on the DREAM Act a controversial bill that would enable children who are brought to this country by their illegal immigrant parents to gain legal status on the condition that they attend college or serve in the military. In a poison climate legislation at any time. And with the immigration debate more polarizing than ever the dramatic chances were vulnerable to begin with. The controversy made its way to the Commonwealth. Senator Scott Brown voted it down. Students across the state revolted at. This hour we sort how the right and the left politicized this bill and what it means for those who would benefit if the DREAM Act is ever realized. And from there it's found in translation how Iraqi native turned University of New Hampshire students found purpose as an Iraq war translator. Up next the immigrant experience from the dream back. To Iraq. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Barbara Kline in several European cities

protests are underway against government austerity measures in European Union countries. Most are peaceful but as Larry Miller reports not all the protesters in Madrid clashed with police outside the main bus station. A general strike in Spain is hitting transportation and other services. In Brussels the EU headquarters an estimated 100000 demonstrators are marching. Other protests in Greece Italy Ireland and lots of the European Union say EU workers are the biggest victims of the financial crisis. With 23 million jobs already lost and many governments imposing deep cuts to wages and pensions. In Brussels the head of a French union says it's still not too late to cancel the planned cuts. Warning there's now strong social tension across the 27 nation bloc. For NPR News I'm Larry Miller in London. President Obama says Republicans are offering the same economic prescriptions they followed during the Bush administration that he says delayed dealing with difficult problems.

We've got to make tough choices if we're going to solve some of these long term problems that we've been putting off. And that means putting aside some of the politics as usual. And it also means sometimes telling folks things they don't want to hear. The president made the comments a short time ago to a group of about 70 voters in Des Moines Iowa in the second of his so-called backyard discussions. In response to a question about China's impact on the U.S. economy the president said Beijing is under valuing its currency contributing to the U.S. trade imbalance. The House today is expected to approve a bill that treats China's exchange rate as a subsidy which would allow more tariffs on Chinese imports. A drenching weather system in the Caribbean has strengthened and is now Tropical Storm Nicole. From member station in Miami Phil Lassman reports the storm has been gaining strength as it moves over Cuba. Nicole was officially anointed today's the 14th named storm of the Atlantic season with top sustained winds of 40 miles an hour.

National Hurricane Center forecaster Dan Brown explains the decision from the storm activity is becoming better organized near the center which happens to still be near the south coast of. But there are a lot of bands of showers and thunderstorms in the southeast of the center and within that band we've had several reports of tropical storm force with the slow moving Nicole soaked Cuba today and is on its way to doing the same in South Florida where as much as eight inches of rain could fall on saturated grounds but tropical storm warnings have been discontinued for all the state since the top winds will likely stay to the east. For NPR News I'm Phil Laxman in Miami. On Wall Street at this hour the Dow is down seven points at ten thousand eight hundred fifty The Nasdaq is off just a fraction as is the S&P. This is NPR. BP as incoming CEO says he's setting up a new safety division to monitor the company's operations around the world. Bob Dudley said today he's appointing Mark Block kind of safeties are. BP says Bligh will have more authority than previous safety chiefs with

representatives in every business unit able to intervene if safety standards aren't being met. A wildlife organization says poachers of South Africa's endangered rhino population have begun using poison against the animals. Vicky O'Hara reports despite stepped up efforts by law enforcement poachers have killed more than 200 rhinos this year. South Africa is home to more than 90 percent of the world's white rhinos and more than 30 percent of black rhinos but poachers have steadily slaughtered the animals for their horns which command hundreds of thousands of dollars in Asia. The poachers usually shoot the animals then cut off the horn. But the manager of wildlife ranching South Africa says poachers are turning to poison which threatens not just rhinos but other wildlife as well. Reinhardt Holt's house and says several rhinos have been killed by poison and water holes. And last weekend he says he found cabbages sprinkled with what he assumes to be poison on a game farm north of Pretoria. Holtz housen

says the substance has been sent for forensic tests. For NPR News I'm Vicki O'Hara in Johannesburg. Police in Ireland are investigating the release of thousands of American mink from a farm in County Donegal. Many of their cages and fences were cut open over the weekend the owners say animal liberation terrorists are responsible. An estimated 5000 mink escaped. Twenty eight thousand stayed where they were. Barbara Cline NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from the Joyce Foundation working to improve the quality of life in the Great Lakes region. Learn more at Joyce ftn dot org. Good afternoon I'm Cali Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. Last week Congress hit the snooze button on the DREAM Act. It's a controversial bill that if passed would enable immigrant children whose undocumented parents brought them here to the U.S. to gain legal permanent residence either by serving in the U.S. military or

by enrolling in college. Joining me to talk about the complications of this bill and the controversy surrounding it are Edward Schumacher-Matos director of Harvard University's immigration research program and a columnist for The Washington Post and David Ribeiro He's a student at UMass Dartmouth and the communications associate for the student immigration movement. Gentlemen welcome to you both. Now before we dive into that. Before we dive into the conversation listeners we want to hear from you. How do you feel about the DREAM Act. What do you know about it. How does the failure to pass the DREAM Act affect you. Are you the child of immigrant parents who are here illegally. Let us know how this legislation would affect your life where 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. You can also post a comment on the callee Crossley Show Facebook page. So before we all talk let me just remind people what the DREAM Act is. It's stands for the Development Relief and

Education for Alien Minors Act. The DREAM Act and it offers conditional conditional permanent residency if students who are brought here by their illegal parents complete two years in the military or two years at a four year institution of higher learning or it could be a two year institution of of higher learning. We meet at a time ironically today in Boston where there is a national immigrant integration conference going on downtown it's called Becoming Americans and the purpose of it. There are many speakers from all across the country is to integrate immigrants into the American culture and lifestyle those who have become new citizens and want to make sure that they're here and welcome. So here we have a pathway or what was supposed to be a pathway the DREAM Act to allow the citizenship of some young people who had no choice in the matter and arriving here in America. First let me just get a response from both David and from Edward Schumacher-Matos about

the no vote to bring it to the floor what the Senate did last week was to decide they wouldn't even bring it to the floor to vote on it. It failed by four votes. And Edward what do you think about that. Well I think there's a big shame. This is something that that's been hanging around since like 2001. It's had the support of both Democrats and Republicans. Democrats have held off on this until now because they want to do include it as part of comprehensive immigration reform they don't want to steal the thunder of comprehensive reform. Many Republicans opposed because they saw it as amnesty lite but still a large number of Republicans in fact 12 voted for the last time this came up in 2006 2007 and it came up in the same exact way as an amendment to a mil to the annual military authorization bill so this is not new that it was done that way and the reason why I stuck on the authorization military authorization bill one reason is because the Pentagon itself favors this bill they helped

draft the original act and they've included these immigrants children that they would love to be able to recruit as part of their manpower projections for the future. So they've been cut off. The Pentagon itself has been cut off at the knees on this act. So it's a real shame this died and it you know and it comes across this way I'd love to hear from it because it's really the work his work and the work of young people. They've got this is for as a god as a god. Well let's go to David. Tell us you've been working very hard being involved in some protests lobbying legislators to talk to raising the issue so people understood what it was the DREAM Act and what it would mean for folks like yourself. Were you surprised by the vote last week. Well you know watching the vote happen is like you know hopeful. Game though is going on and this is bigger than that is about children is about my life about the birth of my family you know and the Dream Act

as we talk about it. It's the right thing to do. You know it's it's not about rewarding anybody it's just about giving you know the few you who are in this position. You know no fault of their own. It doesn't it's given us the opportunity to give back and this is the right thing to do in the ultimate you know form of being an American you know they always talk about American wanted to emulate. I mean you know Americans always talk about having immigrant family one incident of language and these this is a group of students including myself I'm at school right now of students who are especially American in every way. And all we need is you know one thing and this bill would give us that opportunity. And that's the right thing to do everybody agrees that. And for them to vote against that on the day of the vote. The budget motorboat that is you know not talked about. That's completely bypassed the talking about you know what's going to happen with Harry Reid and you know talking about the political game.

That's the way I thought of the bow and unfortunately it came out that way and I see a future for us. There would be something happening in the next few months. They didn't leave us. But as for right now it's a political and we don't have to you know turn the tide and make it back to reality remind of the almost 2 million affect the kids who had no choice what happen and kids who are here who are American were ready to you know do the best they can. But both David and Edward Everett I will start with you. Maybe a few people became more aware of the DREAM Act not only because of the activities of the student immigration movement that David is a part of but also because of the case of Eric Bell DeRose who is a student at Harvard biology student who coming back to Harvard was stopped because he didn't have. Proper paperwork or what they thought was not proper paperwork and was about to be deported. Frankly and the intervention by the president of Harvard University Drew Faust who by the

way has cosigned a letter with seven other heads of institutions in Massachusetts to say this is something that we should support eventually allow the immigration department to use its discretionary powers to stay and deport deportation so he can continue his studies. But for a lot of people the college thing feels like it's a privilege and entitlement that's being taken away from somebody else. Because these students are illegal. And so you're taking somebody else's space I think. In the past there was some there was support for this because it looked like a reasonable thing to do and now in these economic times I wonder if that's put made a lot of people change their minds about it. Kelly let me say two things. First let me add a little bit of perspective and let me answer your question the perspective is that the Department of Homeland Security in fact does not report many

students. They. Kind of put most students who get caught up like in the case of Eric Balderas and so many others on hold that is they're not legalized so they always have the threat of deportation hanging over their head. But but seldom are they being kicked out of the country particularly under the Obama administration. A lot of other people being deported but not many students and that's not to say there won't be some. I'm just trying to say as a as a policy right now inside the government. The argument about about this is a privilege and you're taking away the place of a an American citizen and a university I think is a false argument because because education is really an investment in young people and an investment in the future of the country. These are students who already have been through in most cases not just secondary school United States but primary school. We have

already invested a lot of money in them. We had to we had to give them that education. So you know as as David said they're culturally American. They've been educated on our taxpayers dime and now you have the opportunity where they can go to college or join the military and and get to a point where they can do payback cause with the college education knowledge they contribute to the economy in their work but generally speaking there are much higher level taxpayers and of course military service is an obvious payback right. So no what we're really doing is depriving ourselves of the benefit of these young people as opposed to taking away something something from someone else. David let's use your own case as an example. You came. You grew up on the Cape and you were brought here when you were 4 8 8. OK. Tell us your story. Well we were talking about this investment as Edward

as if I came here. My parents but Dad wanted to get his master's degree in theology so he brought us over he started taking classes. Just got a bachelor's in Brazil and we came he started taking classes and we started our process and immediately started going to elementary school. I started third grade that month and from then on I was just a regular American boy you know I was going to middle school elementary school and middle school and high school I played soccer. I did track ALL FOUR YEARS OH AND YOU KNOW I'LL KEEP All-Star for track. I did marching band I know made the honor roll as a national honors AP classes. All sorts of things. That was essentially just like every other student in sports that I also and I also had a history from you know from being from Brazil. I knew Brazilian background and I would be only different you know even even Brazilian students that come in you know a year ago for example I did talk to them and they don't they call me

American and I feel like i'm brazilian too. Hold on I'm part of both groups both groups can't both you guys let me in. You know and I was essentially an American and I still am. And you know I got to my senior year and I was looking for ways to you know be able to continue my education I was applying to you know top schools around the country and I was getting into them and getting huge fellowship but you know it all came down to those nine did and I couldn't do anything about it. I couldn't even go to school. And I ended up having to go to the community college which is an amazing school and I got my associates to be there but you know from from living an American life and growing up wanting to attend Cornell University and then almost getting in and then having them tell you that you can only go to the community college 10 minutes down the road part time while you're working full time you know it's huge. Well you know I've essentially done everything I can and everything has been you know homework I have to work harder just to be normal.

Right. You know and I'm at the moment I'm going to UMass Dartmouth going to school part time commuting from from Boston where I live now. OK. I want to take a call. Jeff from Framingham Go ahead please. I'm very interested in this subject. The idea of immigration being a problem in America where we all immigrants during the last couple hundred years. Martin my grandson. Immigrants my grandfather came over here and grandmother and my parents grew up here. There was no application for citizenship. They just be painting Americans and did all the things that people who want to live a nice life do. And it was never an issue of it. So I would like people to consider where their parents did come from and why to make a big distinction between those

who didn't arrive early enough and what I have to say thank you very much for you. Thank you very much. Jeff from Framingham. That's a this is a hot button issue for a lot of people I think both David and Edward know and people are trying to figure out you know where they feel on the spectrum of opinion. I think one of the things that has a lot of people flummoxed and a lot of anger or about people they feel have crossed the border and gotten away with something but this DREAM Act because we're talking about the DREAM Act here we're not talking about all of immigration reform to be clear to the listeners really targets those kids who came brought but parents they had no choice in the matter. So we're talking about people just to be clear who arrived in the country before they were 16 years old. They have to have been here for at least five years and have graduated from high

school and they are required to finish two years of college or military status before getting this conditional permanent status in the country so there is there are a lot of steps it's not like somebody is just handing it to these kids even though they were brought here by parents and having to do with their being here. And I think that's often gets lost in this discussion at work. Yeah I totally agree. You know in fairness we have to say from the other side you know they argue that that this is a that they argue two things that they don't want any kind of amnesty as they call it because it's sort of legalizing people who are here illegally without authorization undocumented. Call it what you will and that you know it sets a precedent. And then secondly that that once the children are legalized to become citizens they can then get their parents

to come in. There is some truth to those arguments. But that's such a long process to get your parents to come. I mean it takes so many years that. It's you know I it's not not one I think that to worry too much about and then secondly I mean David cited the number of 2 million and that 2 million number actually comes from the total number of young people who fall into the pool of possibly being eligible for this. But most studies show that in fact you'd probably have about eight hundred twenty five thousand young people who would take advantage of the dream act either by going to university or having gone to university or joining the military. OK. Well we're talking about the DREAM Act and my guests are Edward Schumacher mottos director of Harvard University's immigration research program. And David Ribeiro He's the student

immigration. He's with the student immigration movement and a student at UMass Dartmouth. Listeners we know it's a hot but it button issue and you have opinions on this. How is immigration affecting how you'll vote. Does the DREAM Act make sense to you. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 that's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. We also post a comment on the Cali Crossley Show Facebook page. We'll be back after this break stay tuned to eighty nine point seven. WGBH. With. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Solomon's collection and fine rugs in Quincy Solomon's features authentic handmade oriental rugs in all colors designs and sizes. Solomon's also does repair and restorations as well as cleaning and appraisals. Solomon rugs dot com and from the Boston Symphony Orchestra. The season opens October 2nd when James Levein leads an all Wagner programme featuring Bryn

Terfel more information at 8 8 8 2 6 6 twelve hundred or so dot org and from its You're moving. A move management company specializing in the planning orchestrating and execution of moves for senior citizens. Downsizing from large homes to smaller spaces. More info at. It's your moving dot com. Economist Robert Reich says we won't see a real recovery until we change laws that are making The Rich richer and robbing the middle class of the spending power that could restart a stalled economy. His new book is called Aftershock on the next FRESH AIR we talk with Robert Reich joins us. This afternoon it to an eighty nine point seven WGBH. Hi Brian MacRae here from WGBH is all classical station ninety nine point five and I hope you'll join me on Saturday October 23rd for the 12th annual classical cartoon festival Boston Symphony Hall.

An entire day filled with live music and your favorite looney tune classics back on the big screen. WGBH members you can purchase discounted tickets online at WGBH dot org slash cartoons festival. Sponsored by you fund college investing plan. Selling drugs and Massachusetts Teachers Association. Why eighty nine point seven because of programs you won't hear anywhere else like the world do you have any sense of how many drones we're talking about in the airspace over Pakistan. The new eighty nine point seven WGBH. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. My guests are Edward Schumacher-Matos director of Harvard University's immigration research program and a columnist for The Washington Post and David Ribeiro. He's a student at UMass Dartmouth and the communications associate for the student immigration movement. We're talking about the controversial DREAM Act a bill that died yet again in Congress. If passed it would enable in immigrant children whose undocumented parents brought them

here to the U.S. to gain legal permanent residence either by serving in the U.S. military or by enrolling in college. Now little listeners we want to hear from you. Does this make sense to you. How do you feel about these options to gain legal status in the U.S.. Is college a fair criterion. What about military service. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and you can also post a comment on our Facebook page. I want to talk about the political Liz ation of this issue which you have written about extensively. Edward Schumacher and which David has spoken out about when they took the vote last week. It was 56 Yes and forty three no four votes short. One of the key votes in this was Senator Scott Brown here from Massachusetts who voted no. This was again a vote just to agree to bring it to the floor to vote on it so. That should be clear now. Originally And this is very surprising to a lot of people this was a Republican

initiative but not one Republican voted to bring this to the floor. How has this come around so that the DREAM Act now seems to be wholly something of the Democratic group but not Republican input or support. Yeah I think that's one thing has been very frustrating to many of the young people involved in this. The you know the Republicans right now don't want to touch immigration period because their base is made up so much of this Tea Party movement which itself is a little bit divided but in its majority there. You know the Republican base is coming up of this 30 percent of Americans who are very anti immigrant. They'll put it into place that we're just anti illegal immigration. But it's kind of a concern with anything that's changing their idea of American culture through immigration.

Don't ever let me just let me ask this question because I always it said if we can demonstrate that there is some concrete pathway that really does not allow anybody to jump to the head of the line without having first gone through a process and this would be that the DREAM Act would be the process then we're OK with it and that and they brought this up. This was their thing how how did Cheney Miller they back. They backed away from that concept of you know we can find different ways to compensate for front of the line back of the law and requirements I mean those were never the issues that's easy enough to say what the requirements you want to add on how many years of this happened. That was never the real issue the real issue is the principle of do you kick everybody out or force them out on the one hand or do you legalize them in some way. And you know when they might get citizenship and things like that are details and the Republicans now are so afraid of their own base that they've backed away from it. Let me add one last thing. If there were an election tomorrow and

in the in the Congress and congressman and senators could vote their conscience this would pass overwhelmingly. It's purely politics that's stopping this and timing I would guess because we were before the midterm elections. OK we're going to a caller Laura from Revere Please go ahead. Hi Kelly I love you show. Thank you. My question or comments are twofold the first part being why start with part of the immigration process that should be third fourth or fifth such as offering children that is of illegal immigrant. The process should start more at the border where there should be a process where people can apply up to Mexico. Here I'm talking about Mexicans. And it's just it's it adds incentive to come here illegally and which starting at the wrong end of the stick.

I don't take my answer off the air. OK thank you very much Laura. Go ahead bang and really do you want to support. Yeah. That's a good point that you raise. But the truth is that that process on the border has already started in fact it started way back going back with Reagan and really picking up with Clinton and then under Bush it gained steam and now it's really up there so where once we had 2000 Border Patrol say in the days of Ronald Reagan we now have 20000 border patrol on the border. We now have drones who cover up and down the border. We have militarized that border in a big way with all kinds of technical gear and we've just sent more National Guard to the border. Just what you're saying is in fact been done is being done every day. And the number of immigrants coming across that border illegally is cut way back it's down down to the levels it was in 1970. Some of that's the

economy. But some of that is the enforcement. So you begin to ask yourself you can never totally seal the border that's physically impossible it's a 2000 mile border we can't seal the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan with our whole army over there. We were never able to seal many other borders so. So at what point do you say OK we've sealed it as best we can now we've got to put on the other elements of comprehensive immigration reform that make it work. And so you've got to have these various pieces like you say there's three four five six pieces they all compliment each other. And you've got to put them all in place to make the whole system work. Doing the border by itself is not enough. David what do you say to people who say oh you want to do is jump to the head of the line and people have to struggle to get into college and you know why should you be given a break. And I don't believe the fact that you're not. Your whole purpose is not to bring your whole family here. Well I mean you know you've got to look at. You know the other part that the headwinds of

the border has been secured and you know we can't just worry about that to begin with because it has been secure and you know border crimes things like that have been down every year it's been going down and it's been you know pretty low for the past 10 years I believe and to be jumping in front of the line that's not the case. You know for the Mac student but I think we then first of all you don't have a line to stand in. And second of all we we've been here so long that we should be Americans already that have been American you know as soon as we were able to speak English you know because we're just kids. I came here eight years old I have friends who came here one month old. How can you say that for us. How can you blame him for all the troubles you know that the people are blaming on him of legal immigrants you know that's not that's not the fair thing to do. So that's not it. And none of that implies they would jump in front of the line. We're just you know trying to get in the line we should have been in already and it you know the whole the whole system is extremely complicated and you know there's a lot of effect. You've got to look

and you know you're going to be working you know in the fine morning to be working as a celebrity or whatever and there are other things that you've got to look at. But you have to do something about the people that are already here and yet have to work with the people who are wanting to come. So I think the problem we have here right now with you know 12 million undocumented people in the country starting with the DREAM Act students the you know 800 of us 800000 of us would be eligible right away you know up to the 2 million. Will you know eventually that will be the correct thing and you know try to work it off once that one and keep people happy. That's what's going to happen two years from now and nothing happened with the DREAM Act nothing happens the conference to immigration reform was going to happen to you know all of the food you know all of them are not going to be able to graduate college of them are going to be stuck on dead ends and we're not eligible for any benefits from the from the government. But I'm going to take the legal route

and make big ideas or whatever to try to take some of those benefits because there's nothing out there for them. There's no jobs they could take. There's no you know no aid they can take and you know it is going to be a drain on the economy because we're going to have people and these are the rich. The government didn't the problem. If you get on it what with the people already here with. So OK I want to mention to our listeners that the students that managed to get into college have to fund this through private funds most of them. There are no Pell Grants available to those students so for people are saying they're you know it's tough out here for all kids trying to get money for college and taken money away. Now they're not there. Most of these students are privately funded and that's part of the thing because you can't be eligible for many of the scholarships that Americans citizens would be because you're not in them they're not an American citizen. The evolution of the emotional response to this is very

interesting to me. And I wanted to allow our listeners to hear a little clip from a documentary which is looking at the DREAM Act from the eyes of one person this is from a documentary called American Dream or Sam story which revolves around an 18 year old who moved to Mexico moved from Mexico to the U.S. when he was five. And here is his girlfriend his American girlfriend describing her thoughts on undocumented immigrants. I used to be down from the south and it was things where when people that subject of illegal immigrants you know at a young age I was like well they're all the same they're you know sneaking over the border they're doing all this bad stuff and then I start dating Sam and it's just weird because people that I knew from Georgia would start you know posting these things on Facebook how the government would be in so much better hands if they got rid of all the illegal immigrants and what they call you know anchor babies or whatever it would get me all up and hackles and I'm just like I wanted to pounce on the kids and sing when you have no idea. Every one of the things I want to talk about that has been a criticism of the DREAM Act from people

who otherwise would be supportive is that this is a little bit of cherry picking. In other words you have these brilliant students or these very smart students like David who's a physics major. I mean I certainly couldn't do physics so forget it. You could have my place I guess if you come into that. Eric Balderas is a cell biology student of some note. We can go on and on the Sam that was just mentioned in the documentary is a fantastic musician. So those kids who are out in front trying to support this act are very much outstanding students ones that obviously can give back when they are completed their education. That doesn't say a lot about people who are not outstanding. You know you're sort of just left there if you're just a regular student. How do you respond to the cherry picking crit criticism that you know somehow you're taking off the talented tenth if you will as the boys said and maybe leaving the rest behind.

Let me sick I will think it's true. You are cherry picking. You got to start somewhere. One two. There are two ways of looking at this. One way is looking at it from David's point of view and the point of view of these students and the other way looking at it from the point of view of the country. And so if the government's responsibility first responsibility is what's best for the country these students are all clearly in the interest of the country to have a keep right here because for all the reason we've already discussed that is so clear of a case that you know there's much more debate on on many of the others I think you can make the case on all undocumented immigrants but but particularly on these it's just such like like it's like it's a no brainer. These young people. And then finally let's not forget that the military is there as an option. And that's a very very honorable option. I did that myself as

an immigrant and I was myself undocumented when I was young. And was presented with the choice of going into the military or leaving the country. And I went to Vietnam and I thought was a perfectly honorable thing to do. And I know there are some young people who disagree with that they feel that or some humanitarian groups think that you're preying on the immigrant community to force them to go into the military but the truth of the matter is that most poor whites and poor blacks who join the military do so as a road to opportunity for all those benefits you can get. And this is no different. And yes you may be you know risking your life in a place like Iraq but I still stand by it as an honorable thing to do. Would this be a better sell some as some are saying if college was decoupled from military if military was the pathway. No I think you should have both. I think some of the

humanitarian groups supported this have hurt the movement by trying to decouple the military. I see. David when you're out there on the statehouse steps as you have been with your groups trying to talk to legislators here in town and make your point around the country what is the one thing that you want them to take away just from an emotional standpoint about what the passage of this act would mean for you. No this was the right thing to do. If you're going to give me enough you know to give back because that's all I really want to do I would never ask for a handout came from my way through school right now. And I'm going to be there is the right thing to do is finally getting you know opportunity there. And this bill is coming up again for a vote right. It's going to be a stand alone the next time Edwards did we don't know we don't know. OK. Yeah all right. I'm not as sanguine as David this is going to come up in the lame duck section. Yeah I hope he's right. All right.

Well I'm what I unfortunately know is that this won't be the last conversation we're having about this as we go forward but I hope it's served to make a little bit clearer about what it's all about for a lot of people who knew nothing about it and don't understand how it fits into the overall immigration reform policy. My guests have been Edward Schumacher-Matos who is the director of Harvard University's immigration research program and a columnist for The Washington Post. And David Ribeiro is a student at UMass Dartmouth and the communications associate for the student immigration movement. Thank you so much for joining us. Up next we get a linguist take on the war in Iraq Stay with us. The. Support for WGBH comes from you. And from Eastern Mountain Sports. Sports is a new sponsor to

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point seven WGBH radio it's the story of triumph and heartbreak. The story of justice and in justice. It's the story of baseball. The Story of America's national pastime is going to do extra innings for sustaining a gift of just over $7 a month. Eighty nine point seven WGBH will say Thanks but the complete 11 disc DVD set based on a film by Ken Burns and Lenovo including the brand new you can reserve your copy now when you get online at WGBH dot org. Why why why eighty nine point seven. Because of programs you won't hear anywhere else like the world. How much of Afghanistan right now is built up around corrupt deals. The new eighty nine point seven WGBH. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. My guest whom we're trying to connect with technically is Tyee Snorri who is an Iraq war translator. He

came to New Hampshire with his family at the end of 2000 because of the Saddam Hussein regime. After graduating from high school he joined the military where he became an Iraq war translator. He is currently a student at the University of New Hampshire. And listeners were having a little bit of technical difficulty getting him on but I hope to have him on in just a few moments. Again he came to the US with his family at the end of 2000 because of the Saddam Hussein regime and so he really came as an emigrant. That's the theme of our conversation today. And we think that Nuri has something to say about being an immigrant moving to New Hampshire and becoming a simultaneous translator. I think most of you may know that there is always a need for trans leaders in that part of the country. The military has been asking and asking for translators to go to Iraq and Afghanistan and to IIf was there from 2005 to 2009 in working and

did all kinds of interviews. I don't know about you but I'm very curious about how one does that particularly with high profile officials because as you and I know one wrong word and boy you know you have a whole nation response on your shoulders so we're anxious to talk to him and we're waiting for that technical connection which I'm getting a signal that may be coming in just a few minutes so you'll just be talking to me for a while we were working on it. One of the things that I think came out of the conversation we just finished is that there are so many facets to the immigration conversation. One of them of course is part and parcel of what we were just discussing the DREAM Act which offers a pathway to citizenship for kids who are already here. But also just in terms of how one thinks about immigration at this point in time one of our callers called in to say listen I you know I'm the grandson of an immigrant. And when my grandfather came here this was

not the reception that he got. There were other kinds of ways to approach it and hey we're glad we got to you know on the phone. How are you. Good how you doing fine we were having a difficulty getting through to you and I was just giving our listeners a little bit of your background but it's so much better when you tell your own story. So would you tell our listeners how you happened to come to the U.S. and and how you ended up being a translator that you were in Iraq. I came to the U.S. with my family and then I don't that the Euro 2000 as a political refugee is. We left Iraq in 1999. And. Our place happens to be New Hampshire. We get assigned you know they give us like the place we're going to stay here to live in New Hampshire and we kind of I kind of started my way working here and went to high school and after graduate high school my my dad was a linguist before me he was working in Iraq.

His thoughts on this was no this was not unfamiliar to you. That's right. Right. My dad went to Iraq in 2004 before me like a year before me. And then he encouraged me to to go to Iraq and serve and working with the military. So I think I want to kind of anxious to do it and I did the job. So I think I spent five years over there. Let me go back to just your arrival in New Hampshire. I mean my goodness that had to be a culture shock what was it like. It was it was different. I mean you know came from Iraq to the U.S. It was very like it was a culture shock and it was difficult because I did not speak English at the time and it was very hard you know to just adapt but I fortunately everything went OK with me so I consider myself very lucky. So not to leave I just keep thinking about you and Snow. I mean that's a whole different. We have here arrived and we arrived in around November. So after we arrived a couple days later starts now and so it was kind of strange for me but I like that I went outside I was playing it was good times.

OK. Let's talk about your job as a as a translator so your dad was a linguist he had been doing some of that work seem natural to you to do it. But you know you can speak a language but it's very different in translating simultaneously that's it's a whole other part and parcel to that to that kind of skill so how do you how do you get to the point where you can do that work. It's very tough you know working in the stressful environments like especially in a war zone. It's difficult as not like sitting in an office translating paper because it's like you sitting in a meeting with 10 or 12 people. They all talk at the same time and you have to relay the idea to the person you know you were looking for and it was very difficult. But I mean I kind of like after doing it for a long time I mastered it you know like after a while it's just as difficult a job is not easy you have to make sure to get the right idea to the part to the person you're talking to because if you give them the wrong impression thinks can change. I mean things can go wrong and you can have a very negative impact. Well we know how much nuance. I mean there are so many words in the English language that are

just a little bit of nuance changes the whole meaning of the sentence. I assume the same thing is with the direct language as well so you have to be very difficult. I don't know how you do it I mean how do you know exactly which word to use as opposed to another one you can say walk to the door many different ways but you know one one way can mean Skip and another way can mean drag I mean you know you just see where I'm going. I agree I agree it has a lot of like you can say one thing it means another thing which is it's very difficult. But for me it was natural because I speak there I could I was very normal for me. But you know the English part I had to learn English. And I mean I consider my learning I consider myself I learn everyday English I mean I learn Word every day I learn new things so it's kind of like a good experience as well not just a job so. What was the toughest interview you had to translate. Well I had tough interviews like almost weekly I used to meet with them sometimes like the provincial council and city council members and we have like about 15 people

and like and want a room and and they all talk at the same time I have to make sure you know every night in my office I would work with you know that's what they say in this diet this is what's happening. And it's very difficult it's very successful you know. And specially like you have a lot of limited like time limit to do this in meeting and it's very difficult I mean we're just worn me down you know but it's I'm used to it I get used to it after a while. So now you since you were born in Iraq and you're Iraqi. Did you have a warmer reception by the people with whom you were interacting the Iraqis in that room would they think a little bit better of you because you were you were there and they knew you were Iraqi and also American. Yes I mean you know some people it's very difficult to describe some people might well coming out some people you know the some people might look at me as a traitor you know I'm working for the Americans. I don't yeah they have their Look at me they don't say to my face but you know it's just they just kind of give me that look you know but I don't really care about what they think you know I mean I can't really make them happy

you know just do whatever they want I just have to do what my job and I got to focus on my job it's you know it's of the military I was my focus. Since you were sitting in those high level meetings with all the politicians in the in the policy makers and same the Americans it would seem to me that you would have a better sense of the rest of us or even to some degree some of the people who are high up here in the United States about changing moods of the people in Iraq. So as you're translating are you getting a sense of a shift in how people are feeling about Americans presence there was did it stay the same you didn't see any difference. Wondering if you got any insight in how people were thinking about Americans over a period of time because you were there for a number of years. Personally the way the way I look at it I don't really like when I meet with people I still interact with Iraqi people politicians and regular people every single day and we talk to them. We just you know see what they need what they have for we just listen to their problems and

the way I look at it. They don't look at it the Americans are the main enemy. That's how I see things you know I mean it's not like we are the occupiers you know. I mean the majority of people they look at it this way I mean to just think American here at the help they understand the objective of the U.S. troops in Iraq they know the U.S. troops trying to help but sometimes unfortunately people like our politicians and the media in Iraq they just kind of like don't they don't show you that I picture they just tell you a different story to make the U.S. troops look bad like you know they kill Iraqi people left or right but that's not true. I mean sometimes the media does not really tell you everything. Personally I think there are people are they can have a good interaction with that with the American army. I mean they have a very good relationships that I look at especially between the Iraqi army and the Iraqi police the security forces for a lot of Americans the war in Iraq is over. You know Major troops. Yes we have some presence there but you know they're focused if if there is a focus is really in Afghanistan and that

that we're there how do you feel about that. Personally I don't think the war is over at this time because. I mean maybe it's over for like to certain people but personally that's how I look the way I look at it is the war is not over because Iraq is not stable yet. Iraq needs need support like military support and especially for security forces I mean Iraq security wise it's not stable. So how can I mean how can you describe it's over you know there's still killing in the streets and the people dying every day. I don't think that the war is over yet so how is it looking at this war now from where you live in New Hampshire I mean that's so far away from what was happening on the ground when you were in Iraq during your translating work. Is it weird. What do you think now is you look at those stories from where you are as a business student at the University of New Hampshire. It's very different lifestyle I have to adapt to it. You know I mean I'm living now in this

civilian world that's how I call it you know it's very it's different you know I kind of miss going back to Iraq sometimes. You know I miss my old days when I used to do but I just have to adapt with it again it's very hard. Like hard transition again for me to adapt to life here in New Hampshire. Hopefully it's going to take me you know short time to adapt and go back to my normal life I would call it. So do you see yourself as in the translating work that you did as a kind of connection between these cultures. Definitely definitely I would consider myself as a bridge between these two cultures and it's very important job. I mean some people that you know I understand that some people might know won't they just look at me like hey I'm just a translator. But that's not that's not just translated as a very important job it's very I mean if I say the wrong think things can go wrong. I mean they have time. But what I'm saying is transit is job. It's like a bridge between these two cultures and the way of like interacting with each other.

I mean that's that's how I look at it. What now. You know we've seen enough of that footage from Iraq you know how dangerous it was. Were you ever in a dangerous situation doing your work there. Yes I have I have been in many dangerous situations I mean during my period spending there I have like Venice through maybe like eight seven or eight attacks that like you know bombing attacks roadside bombings going on with the same Humvees that I was in so it was very difficult. I mean it's tough times you know I have been like that actually throughout like eight firefights possibly about that time so I would say I mentioned at the beginning of this segment where we were trying to get your line connected that the military continues to ask for people who can translate. In that area of the world and there's just not that many still right. Sure there's a lot of like scarcity in the linguists especially in the Arabic region you know it's very hard to get them some people they don't want to go serve some people they just they're too afraid to go and serve in

Iraq they might just you know get hurt so it's not everybody is not like anybody can do the job is not about being a linguist. It's about accepting the risk what you have to face when you go there. So to a large degree I mean you were in the military you know as I look at it when you talk about where you had to be and where you are NOW you're right I mean I was I was working with millet I mean I was not a soldier. I was a civilian contractor I was I was they consider me as a defense contractor. But I was basically in the front lines every single day outside the wire trying to do things and you know like maybe like if I'm always in the front lines you know they can't really communicate with me so I'm always the first guy you know I thought that people so what would you want people to know about Iraq and your average Iraqis that probably is not coming through in the kind of reports that we see here. I'm sorry was that again. What would you want people here to know about Iraq and regular Iraqis. That does not come through in the reports that we see here about the

Iraqi war and the people there. I mean what I want to tell the people is they have to understand the Iraqi people some people there are people are very like very kind people all they want to do is like to live a normal life. They want to live in peace. That's what they're asking for They're not asking for too much. But unfortunately fortunately they don't get that I don't know for some reason it's politics issues. And if you really like deal with the Iraqi people either here or in Iraq you'll see them very normal people just like anyone else. They're not different than anyone else. And is there a great amount do you think of anti-Americanism there. There is an amount but not the damage not the majority I would say not a big one. I mean there's always anti-Americans whatever you go in all over the world but Iraq it's a normal country I mean there's a war zone but there's not a as big as it seems like I think. What do you want to do with your business degree when you're done you have this fantastic ability to simultaneously translate an area of the world where you know not very many people can do that. And you're studying business how do you see that working for you in the future.

Well in the future what I'm aiming for is I want to get my degree and then hopefully I can start my own business my own company and then I can maybe get work work in Iraq and here between the two countries like US in Iraq maybe doing some trade because Iraq has a lot of business in the future I can see Iraq being very prospering the next five years economic wise. So I just need some time to settle down security wise and should be ready to. Come back again to the world and see it take its place. So that's what I think it's has a big great future especially in the economic ways Iraq has nothing. They need a lot of construction. And they need a lot of. You know the building for this country. So it will be a lot of resources. OK and you've been one at least for a short period of time. Nori thank you so much for joining us. Nuri was an Iraq translator from 2005 to 2009. He is currently a student at the University of New Hampshire. You can keep on top of the Kelly Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley follow us on Twitter our friend the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook today show was engineered by

Alan Mathis and produced by Chelsea Marrs and a white knuckle beat and Abby Ruzicka. This is the Calla Crossley Show where production of WGBH radio Boston NPR station for news and culture.