WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Cali Crossley Show. With March Madness in full force. Corporations are shelling out millions. Coaches are cashing in. And while many players are getting short changed not on the court but in the classroom. According to a study the graduation gap between white and black players has widened this year for teams playing in March Madness. The results are alarming making the NCAA Double-A looking nothing like the ACP. Look at what it will take to put scholar back in scholarship for black players. From basketball it's on to the Boston and the AM. With a look at its curious history. And we top off the hour with Africa's premier diva and a leaky Jo. Up next basketball books and been a nice music. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm CORBA Coleman President Obama is relaxing a ban on offshore

drilling for oil and natural gas exploration. It's a controversial move Mr. Obama says it's one item among several others that are part of a larger administration strategy to develop more energy sources for Americans. Already we've made the largest investment in clean energy in our nation's history. It's an investment that's expected to create or save more than 700000 jobs across America jobs manufacturing advanced batteries for more efficient vehicles upgrading the power grid so that it's smarter and it's wrong. Doubling our nation's capacity to generate renewable electricity from sources like the wind and the sun. Some areas that may be affected include Virginia the Gulf of Mexico and parts of Alaska. A senior Army general will be punished for speaking out against Mr. Obama's efforts to end Don't Ask Don't Tell. The 1993 law prohibiting gays and lesbians from serving openly in the military. NPR's Tom Bowman reports. Lieutenant General Benjamin Mixon wrote a letter to a newspaper this month saying he didn't believe service

members support repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell. He urged soldiers to write elected officials to quote stop this ill advised repeal. Nixon was sharply criticized last week by the nation's top military officer Admiral Mike Mullen who said Nixon's letter was inappropriate given the intent of the president to do away with don't ask don't tell today Army Secretary John McHugh told reporters Nixon would not be fired or reprimanded for his letter in that he considers the matter closed. McHugh said Mixon was told by Army leaders what he did was inappropriate mix in his base in Hawaii and commands all U.S. Army soldiers in the Pacific area. Tom Bowman NPR News Washington. Northeast communities are coping with flooding and bracing for more after heavy rain pummeled the region for the second time this month. In Rhode Island Governor Don Carcieri shut down state offices and urged residents to stay home. From member station WRNI in Providence Anthony Brooks reports. The skies are brightening today but the effects of two days of heavy rain are still being felt

as rivers and creeks continue to rise and overflow near Providence this morning rush hour traffic was gridlock because a quarter mile section of Interstate 95 was shut down due to flooding. Rhode Island residents are pumping out there basement schools across the state are closed. And Governor Don Carcieri gave the state's nonessential employees the day off. He says the state could be facing the worst flooding in more than a century. The order of magnitude. This is something that most all of us has not seen. And so we've got to you know act accordingly. The forecast calls for good weather for the coming days but officials in Rhode Island and across the Northeast expect the flooding to worsen as rivers and streams crest later today and tomorrow. For NPR News I'm Anthony Brooks in Providence. On Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrials are down 18 points at ten thousand eight hundred eighty nine. You're listening to NPR News. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin says at least 13 people died in new bombings today in a southern province. One bomb went off in a garbage can in Dagestan province near the

border with Chechnya. When police arrived at the scene a suicide bomber disguised as one of them set off a second device. Prime Minister Putin says the attacks may be from the same people who killed at least 39 people in two suicide bombings on the Moscow subway on Monday. A study in the Public Library of Science Journal finds obese men are vulnerable to more serious upper body injuries than men of normal weight. NPR's Brenda Wilson reports. Standard car crash tests may not indicate the dangers a crash test dummy with normal weight is typically used to come up with the safest design for the interiors of most cars trucks and vans. But two thirds of drivers in the U.S. are obese. So researchers at the Medical College of Wisconsin developed a dummy with torsos made of fat like tissue. Computer crash simulations confirmed what researchers found in real world traffic data. Women suffered more injuries usually in the abdominal region but obese male drivers had a higher risk of more serious injuries and injuries to the head faced chest and spine.

Overweight people had a lower risk of injury. Further study is needed to examine the effect of vehicle design and the distribution of fat between the sexes and obese and normal weight people. Brenda Wilson NPR News. Emmy Award TV writer David Mills has died Mills was cited for his work in the highly acclaimed TV series The Wire. He assisted on many others he wrote for The Washington Post and also worked as a blogger. I'm CORBA Coleman NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from the William and Florey Hewlett Foundation making grants to solve social and environmental problems at home and around the world. The Web at Hewlett dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show March Madness is in full force and with the basketball bonanza comes the sobering reminder of the disparities between white and black players. According to the annual report by the Institute

for Diversity and Ethics in Sport 45 in C eight teams graduated 70 percent or more of their white players from 33 teams last year but only 20 teams graduated at least 70 percent of their black players. The same as last year. Here to talk about what it would take to reverse these institutionalized inequities are Derrick Jackson and Dan Lebowitz. Derrick Jackson is a columnist for The Boston Globe and Dan Lebowitz is the executive director of Northeastern University's Sport in Society program. Derek and Dan welcome. Thank you thank you Cali. Now people know that I'm not a big sports person but I didn't have any idea about how bad this was until I saw your column in mid-March. And I just was appalled. I know that this is something you do every day so let's begin by your telling me how bad is it. Sure Kaley been following it officially for the last 14 years and and this year in the tournament What's the positive side. There's been

enough embarrassment and some schools have really taken this issue on to the level that at least we were not at a place where 10 years ago when I took a look at the of the tournament teams there was at one point we were at a point where seven of the teams had a zero. Graduation rate for the black men players. At least now it's only two. But the other fact that still remains unfortunately is that the gaps the graduation gaps between black players and white players remains. Very unexpectedly huge to the point that in my scheme of things which is borrowed from the Knight Commission of intercollegiate athletics report a decade ago they recommended that no team with a graduation rate of less than 50 percent be allowed into postseason football or basketball any kind of play. I also extend that to black players because I believe they're the canary in the coal mine because they're overrepresented in scholarship athletes and therefore more prone to exploitation.

And and by my view 28 of the 65 teams in this years in the field 43 percent should have been disqualified for having black male graduation rates under 50 percent. Then I want you to get in on this. Derrick noted in his column that Kentucky has the worst graduation rates 18 percent most recently but in the past 9 percent and at one point zero as he mentioned in the past. What do you think about this. I think well he mentioned four schools actually. I mean you mentioned Kentucky at 70 percent he mentioned Maryland the former national champion at zero percent. You mention you and LV very low and you mentioned Cal Berkeley a place that most people think of as an academic you know monument and yet they have a zero percent black graduation rate. And so what I think is it's reflective of an uneven racial landscape in the entire country. And I think that we often don't pay attention to the larger issues outside of sport that just reflect in sport. And so you know we how do you change the paradigm of

disenfranchisement based on race. OK let me just make a note for our listeners that the Kentucky coaches 32 million dollar a Kentucky coach is out there it described him and that March Madness is a billion dollar industry for what happens a little over a month in a month's space of time. So money is a critical issue here as well. Right. To the degree that in fact you know that unless the NCW really cleans its house and they are in the process of getting a new president to replace the late Miles Brand. Many of these teams are essentially NBA farm teams and NFL NFL minor league franchises. And I think you call them semi pro players with no salary right. Everybody everybody around them gets a cut by any other definition. This realm is a professional sport except that the players don't get a cut and so it we're getting. I believe we're getting close to a place where you either give the players a cut

because they're not particularly black players end up being graduated or they see double A truly bans the chronically bad teams. Now as I said at the beginning I began to see how hard this how horrible this was when I read your column. But I also realize how horrible it was based on a story that I kept seeing over and over again as example of how good it could be. And I want our listeners to hear it. This is one school that gets all A's for graduating its best all play basketball players. And it's Xavier University and the credit goes largely to the academic advisor sister Roseann Fleming. Our biggest regret is that we have 70 straight basketball. It was graduate this is a legacy that goes back a long long way since he stepped foot on this campus. There's never been one senior basketball player not graduate. The player has to understand that first and foremost we're here for them. They are here for us that the university exists for them to grow and

develop and to become an educated individual while they are on the Xavier campus. Now I mean what it says Dan is that this story was done by everybody. So I guess what this means is that the example of people graduating is so small that they have to do the same story over and over again. And I think it pays attention. It puts attention on the fact that all this money especially from the two sports of football and basketball are again brought into these universities and yet the appropriation of that money seems misguided. It seems that we ought to spend more money on the healthy development the cognitive development the conflict resolution skills of the athletes life skills of the athlete support systems for the athletes if we're going to have a system. That purports itself to be a scholar athlete system lets support athletes let's create programs of cultural connectivity of a sense of inclusion and belonging that goes beyond the basketball court and I think that's the major issue that the NCAA has to start looking at itself in a much more

serious way than they have if Derek's talking about a 10 or 12 year landscape where we've only gone from seven from seven schools that have zero to two schools that have zero we still haven't gone very far and incrementally it speaks again as I opened to how the entire institutionalized racism of our landscape doesn't move very much forward incrementally either. And I think that both issues it's a it's an issue where we need to pay more attention to the issue of race in this country both in terms of athletics and in terms of size of the athletic realm. We're talking with Dan Lebowitz who is from Northeastern University's sport and society program and Derrick Jackson of the Boston Globe. And we're looking at the disparities in graduation rates from these players in the March Madness teams. Now you just mentioned that somebody has to begin to say something and do something. And once big Somebody has said something recently is Arnie Duncan who's the secretary of education now here he is in a press conference when you know on the in say

NCAA education gap between black and white athletes. I played against players who had been used and dumped by the university. They had nothing to show for the for the victories and the refs. They have brought their school when the ball stopped for them. They struggle to find work had difficult lives and some died early. I want our listeners to get in on this list as where do you come down on it. Do you see this as exploitation or as a salvation for so many young men. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 for all those of you who have done the brackets and betting on all the teams. So what does it mean there Jackson for Arnie Duncan to step out and say this as a stud. I think it's a great first step of national leadership begin to put colleges feet to the fire because in fact this really lands at the feet of the college presidents. Jon Kalahari would not have a 32 million dollar a year contract. He's a Kentucky at Kentucky. There are

various football coaches in the southeastern southeastern Athletic Conference who are making two three and four million dollars a year. That would not happen without the college presidents and the presidents have all have seduced themselves into believing that because they bring in X revenue that is worth the cost. I think you know at some the moral bank is breaking on this issue when assistant coaches assistant coaches at Tennessee and Texas are making an average of about three hundred fifty thousand dollars a year three times three to four times more than a full time regular college professor. How do people live with themselves. You know I know this may be a naive question and why Dan Lebowitz doesn't the NCAA just say OK people who do not have good graduation rates cannot participate. I think they're caught up in that world when the economic power of the NCW tournament basketball division won in football at the Division 1 level brings in and I think what has to happen is leaders

have to step up to make statements individually if the NCAA isn't going to do so if you look again if we go back to my original statement. Ninety three percent of athletic directors in the country are white males. And so and yet if you look at the numbers of African-American males that are playing into money sports football and basketball and their representation in those two sports. How come we don't have more African-American athletic directors How come there aren't more African-American coaches. And then it locally Derek and I were having a conversation earlier about Al Skinner at ABC brought his team to the NC Double-A tournament seven times since 2001. And graduates a great number of his players a very very high percentage of his players. So I think why don't we just have a tournament March Madness with just the teams that are doing both. What's wrong with that. I think it's a great idea. OK. I think the teams you know again teams under 50 percent graduation rate. Also along racial lines should be banned from the tournament and you've got. You have

schools albeit mostly private schools that have the resources of exam or Duke or Stanford or other you know teams like that that consistently have really high astronomically high graduate. Duke is 92 percent. But there are enough public flagship state universities that show that they can graduate. The you know significant majority of the black players. Wisconsin does it even Alabama does it. We don't think about Alabama's as you can top it but for some reason they they got the message and roughly between the basketball and football programs two thirds of their black players graduate. OK we have a few phone calls here. Douglas from Cambridge Go ahead please. Douglas admissions process what are the schools in order to pick up the basketball teams might accept players who are. Thank you scores for high school records

and therefore they would be less likely to be able to graduate. Excellent question Douglas I'm going to let our experts answer that. OK. I don't often hear. Thank you thank you very much. Dan I would say that you know we talk about disparity here and that disparity starts early and it's based on socio economics and the benefits that are available at certain schools. Defn differentiated between private schools and public schools in the collegiate level. And as we all know I mean there's a there was a seven piece story in The Globe about athletics in the Boston Boston public schools and and and academics in those schools and accreditation issues and so I think that we're talking about a very large issue a disparity that we have to address but I also think that in places where universities are going to reach into a pool of excellence in this in this pool of excellence is about. Football and basketball as opposed to academics the academics. I think that they need to to put systems and programs in place that create transitional programs for kids

so that they can get up to speed I think with all the money that's pouring in with all the brainpower that's available at universities. It can be done. It should be done and it's a shame that it hasn't been done. I want to quote from a blog post that was done in a blog called college life posted by a guy named Thomas. He's referring to your column Derek and he says I can no longer root for Duke. Now you mentioned Duke as a good example he said a school that does graduate its players yet excepts athletes to fill out its athletic rosters that do not have the requisite S.A.T. scores or academic qualifications that non athletes must have to be accepted at the school. Now I don't know his facts but that's what he got there. And we've got while you ponder that Steve from words from was there go ahead please. I I have to you know take action. I understand that those colleges should be ashamed of themselves. Shame on them for not you know letting these guys go giving them the support to graduate. But you know how do you call this racism. These athletes of getting a wonderful wonderful opportunity

three four hundred thousand dollars you know bills being you know wiped out but that the opportunity for them to play sports and to get educated where we sit today. Why aren't they finishing college. If I don't get. It's just easy to blame the colleges. But what about the opportunity. I'm going to let Derek answer that. Go ahead. I think yeah I don't know how you can call Ledbury answer go ahead. I think you have a situation here. I get constantly every year when I do this my column the classic what's their responsibility to graduate don't they don't these players have responsibility graduate of course they have a responsibility to take books as seriously so they can. However there's also we have to step back and remember there's a reason we send our young men and women to college because they're not fully formed human beings yet and we expect our colleges and we certainly hope that the colleges as an institution are role models of moral not just a book

learning but moral learning. And unfortunately too many of these colleges obviously the Kentucky's in the final four. West Virginia is in there with a black graduation black male graduation rate of 30 percent. Another message is being sent to these young people that they are there to just work and you know in a seductive world of adulation and where everything is showered upon them everything seems to come easy let's face it all of us would be very tempted to take the easy street if we're told that if we do so much we're going to make the NBA and all these players are told by these recruiters not all of them will make the NBA like the thimble head. And that's the chance you've given up your education for the shot and get in the NBA. You're probably right not going. That's right. So I think that's right so the bottom line to the question that I always have is that you know if we were talking an NBA farm team let the chips fall where they may. But we're talking about a institution that is is living an essentially

hypocritical existence talking about the quote student athlete when in too many cases the university has essentially is hired the young young man to be a worker. OK. We have another call on for David from Needham Go ahead please. Yes another instance of this and it's apart from the White Black Hispanic whatever is that I graduated from one of those Western Kentucky colleges for four decades ago and I practice of it because I have a fraternity there and they are getting the information all the time. The big issue at that time was for college athletes football or basketball was they came in often with marginal high school background and the PTA apartment knocked out straight A's in all the courses they talk and then the whole they could get a B minus and the courses they needed. And again that probably accounted for that 9 percent graduation rate. The attitude of myself and the 99 percent of the students who are not college athletes was more of a contempt for the

athletic put upon we went to the football games and that is an excellent point Dave and I want to have Dan respond to you because I have to tell you my general thought is that athletes are very smart. Danica respond to what our callers are saying this is great but I'd like to respond because if in the in the non-money sports the sports that all the other sports that make of colleges college sports. Student athletes actually graduate at a much higher rate than the rest of the population really. I just think that getting back to Derek's point about kids you're talking about young men the frontal lobes aren't even fully developed and all of a sudden they're thrown in to a national stage they're on television almost every day they're bowed down to as heroes they're given a number of things in it. And instead of most universities providing support systems that let them know that help them with this cognitive development help them deal with these issues help them deal with the balance between studying in and athletics and it's a quite an

incredible endeavor and division when you're traveling all the time you're barely ever and you say you're a star. Right. And I think that interests are not studying Well you know even if even if you your intent is to study an enormous amount the amount of the travel the amount of the pressure the amount of the amount that your coach wants you to work on skills or everything else probably puts you in a much bigger disadvantage in terms of deflection of studies than another student I would I would go and I agree on that. But I do want to bring something into play. Not quite this agreement but the women's final the women's team doing well. Not only doing well. Women now play a basically the same amount of games as the men do they practice the same as the men do. And yet. All four number one seeds for the women's tournament had a 100 percent graduation rate across the board. And even if you went down the top 16 seeds their graduation rate was

87 percent so my point is that it can be done. Books and games at the same time. But I think there's a huge culture piece which Dan you alluded to that the men are in a different culture. It actually has nothing to do with the academic workload or anything like that. There's a the two things one I yes I believe that a significant amount of young men because they're basically looked at as workers are brought in with under not with the same academic you know criteria criteria as the typical student on that particular campus. That said. It's part of it. So that's where the issue is are the semi-pro teams right. Or is it student athletes. This is going to happen with the women right and the women prove that you can have the student athlete model if were willing to attack the culture that's attacking the

men. Well that's where we're going have to leave it today. I hope we're not having this exact same discussion next year during March Madness. But I'm very grateful to having this this conversation a very important conversation with you two today. We've been talking about March Madness and the failure of NCAA teams to graduate black athletes from college. Derrick Jackson and Dan Lebowitz thank you so much for joining us there Jackson is a columnist for The Boston Globe. Dan Lebowitz is the executive director of Northeastern University sports in society programs. Coming up we explore the history of the Boston and the name. We'll be back after this break stay tuned to eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Syrian Performing Arts

Center New Bedford. TALK OF THE NATION host Neal Conan with Celtic Ensemble Galilei present a multimedia performance a universe of dreams. On April 9th. Tickets at sight Tyrian dot org and from Welch and Forbes personally serving as investment advisors for New England families since 1838. Welch and Forbes. Knowing wealth. Knowing you. On the Web at Welch Forbes dot com. And from safety insurance which is committed to working with independent agents in Massachusetts and New Hampshire to provide coverage that protects your home's auto's business and financial interests you can learn more about safety insurance at safety insurance dot com. If you love discovering new things on public radio then join WGBH learning tours and NPR's Diane Rehm and Scott Simon for a Mediterranean voyage of discovery. A 14 night cruise aboard the M.V. edgy an odyssey. From Athens to Naples you'll enjoy small group tours of historic sites find local food and incredible accommodations. Space is limited. Learn more at

WGBH dot org slash learning tours. This is eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston NPR station for trusted voices and local conversation with the world. The PBS News Hour and the callee Crossley Show explore new voices with us all day long here on the new eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Celebrate the birthday of Broadway legend Stephen Sondheim with a round trip for two aboard and try to sell espresso to catch sun high mid 80s live in Washington D.C. all that free online at WGBH dot org. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show as part of our ongoing series on local libraries. We're talking about the Boston Anthony I'm joining us is Catherine Wolfe.

She's the author of Culture Club The Curious History of the Boston Anthony him. Katherine welcome. Thank you. Now for those of you who don't have no idea what the Anthony home is. Tell us what it is and how it came to be. Sure it is a library a gallery a research center. It's kind of a full service cultural spa. And it was founded in 18 07 over 200 years ago. It's right near the statehouse in a beautiful Neo Palladian stone building. Isn't it gorgeous that building. It is beautiful. Now this is what is was known when it was established as a social library which is different from our idea today of what a library is which is open to everyone. Give us a little history about that. Sure. It was founded at the end of the in the post revolutionary moment. There were Boston gentleman well-heeled gentleman who wanted a place to deposit book collections to put all their newspaper

subscriptions. And they ended up asking for a charter to make a corporation out of this institution from the state of Massachusetts. So they sold shares and with that money they bought real estate. And so it cost a good bit to become a shareholder. But annual memberships reading room memberships were more affordable and so it is it is something that was considered a membership library. Nowadays anyone can attend nonmembers and members can attend public lectures and exhibits and readings and concerts. So it's much more accessible now certainly than it was when it was first founded back in the day as they say Who are the prominent members. Well let's see there were some names that would be household names now for example William Emerson Ralph Waldo Emerson is father was a founder. He was instrumental.

And also the American Renaissance author Nathaniel Hawthorne and later on in the 19th century the James family was prominent Henry James was certainly a devoted a of the Boston Athenaeum as was his youngest younger sister Alice. Now we want to point out that a lot of those names you mention are all guys because this was for all men for a time and the first women woman member was Hannah Adams. She was one of the early women who was allowed to read in in the reading room and she was an amateur historian who then came into prominence and was quite professional in her historical pursuits. So she was allowed to read in the reading room and sometimes she was ridiculed by the gentleman. But I do spend some time in my book discussing her special role. We're talking with Catherine Wolff who is author of Culture Club The Curious History of the Boston and the name now Culture Club is quite a deliberate title because

you're looking at what the Anthony home had to do with really identifying American culture explain that a bit. I will gladly. At the beginning of this post revolutionary moment there was a good deal of anxiety among the elite men of the city. And they wanted to really elevate their status internationally. There was some sense of inferiority about where the arts and letters lay in the new country. And and so they had essentially two principal goals in their mission statement which was rather lengthly lengthy and comprehensive by the boil down to one they wanted to establish standards of taste and make a site to create a site that was good for civilisations ornaments and refinements the word culture came later. And the other principle was they were worried about democracies the facts. They had great worry about chaos and vole Garrity and they wanted to promote civility and make us a

site that was worthy of the new nation. Now because of the you know what I think Culture Club I think the culture pieces you just described but club is what I also focus on because it was very much a kind of. Close knit little community that not now not today but at that point has some exclusivity. Some snobbery attached to it and it was defined I thought as high culture. So can you talk about that a bit. Yeah it will always be difficult for the Athenaeum to shrug off that that snobbish label I think but the place attracts friendly people who love books. At the beginning though I think there was a kind of insularity there was a sort of collaboration as it was very familial. There were families old Boston families who were associated with founding it they were donating their collections and some cases there were buildings. So I think there was a kind of a sense of ownership. And

frankly with the in the 1850s when the Boston Public Library was first getting started that was when a kind of identity crisis happened because everybody wanted to. Well some people were interested in sort of folding themselves into the Boston Public Library and others it. Exactly. Quite a dispute among the Athenaeum faithful. And it was really something. It was voted down the idea of donating the entire collection book collection to the emerging Boston Public Library in 1853. But it was a kind of twisted situation because the main spokes person for it. Donating those collections to the emerging tax supported public library was a it's not really his name was George technique and he ran an intellectual salon privately in his home on Park Street and he was very fancy. And then on the other side counter-intuitively was Josiah Quincy who was a public

servant a mayor former mayor of Boston president former president of Harvard University but a public servant none the less a member of the House of Representatives. And he said no way we are going to hold tight to this new building on Beacon Street and no way are you getting your hands on it. He didn't trust the government. As a student we were we heard that before. Yeah. I now I when I first came to Boston 100 years ago I thought this institution was uniquely Boston but I understand there are other anthem AM's in the country how does this one compare or is this the distinctive and the NE I mean well I can say that this is this is the treasure I would say there are others in the athenæum family and they aren't officially related to one another but there are there's one in Charleston South Carolina and there is one even in St. Johnsbury Vermont. So the name is simply it means a building or an institution dedicated

to the goddess Athena who is the Greek goddess of wisdom so it's a place to pursue intellectual projects. And much like a museum is dedicated to the Muses the Athenaeum is dedicated to Athena. So it really is a catch all term. Now lest we leave people with the impression that it's old people sitting around and reading room. The answer ma'am has really done quite a bit of outreach beginning last year trying to get younger people to appreciate this history and support it. Right exactly. They had a big push to welcome especially young members. And I think it's paying off so to speak I mean it's opening up and as I said before many of the exhibits and lectures and concerts are open widely to the public and there's no need to buy a membership for those. But memberships are available for young people and for older people. And it's kind of a generalists paradise it does focus mostly on the Humanities

at this point. And there are exhibits that change seasonally and it's just a wonderful place for anyone who loves the materiality of books loves to browse the stacks at the same time it has y fi on the top floor and I believe you can rent a Kindle. The more things change the more things stay the same because the mission is consistent with that of the 18 0 7 mission statement and stand you can't go in there without wanting to read just a quick note about just the beautifulness of the place. It is beautiful. Yes. And yet our wonderful art books and basement levels and it overlooks the old burying ground. So quite the quite a spot. And if you haven't been there it's worth a visit. Well I thank you very much for letting us letting viewers and letting listeners know who did know about it before we've been talking about the rich history of the Boston Anthony I'm with Catherine Wolfe. She's the author of Culture Club The Curious History of the Boston Anthony. Thank you Catherine for your common and

very welcome. Up next a conversation with musician and singer Angelica Cujo. We'll be back after this break stay with us. With. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Katz winner of seven Tony Awards including best musical. April 13th through 18th at Boston's Colonial Theater. For tickets you can visit Broadway Across America dot com part of the Lexus Broadway Across America Boston series and from Skinner auctioneers and appraisers of antiques and fine art. You might consider auction when downsizing a home or disposing of an estate. Sixty auctions annually 20 collecting categories Boston in Marlborough online at Skinner Inc dot com and from Curious George let's get curious. The new exhibit at Boston Children's Museum where you can experience the world of Curious George and visit places featured in the books and television show

now through June 6 details at Boston Children's Museum dot org. Why why why why. Eighty nine point seven. Because of new local alternatives like the Emily Rooney show coming up next the self-proclaimed egg headed snob. Steve Almond and Emily Rooney Stay with us. Eighty nine point seven because it's a new choice in public radio. Eighty nine point seven WGBH. Explore the Mediterranean this July with WGBH learning tours and NPR's Diane Rehm and Scott Simon for a Mediterranean voyage of discovery a 14 night cruise aboard the M.V. odyssey with stops in Greece and Italy including the Sicilian coast. Enjoy private tours of historic sites local cuisine and incredible accommodations. Space is limited. Learn more at WGBH dot org slash learning tours.

This is eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston's NPR station for trusted voices and local conversation with FRESH AIR and the Emily Rooney show. The new eighty nine point seven WGBH. The song is called the lady and it is sung by singer Angelica Joe will be performing at Boston summer this Friday and Saturday. Angela hails from Africa but her music and influence have reached continents across the globe. She joins us today to talk about her new album called all yellow. Welcome Angelica. How are you. Well I'm a new fan that's how I am.

I'm so excited about this album. I have fun doing it. Oh I can see that you would one of the things that I've come to appreciate about you that everybody else knew of course already is that you just cross all musical genres Afro Punk and reggae and salsa and gospel and jazz and Zukin all of it. How do you describe your style. I never thought about describing my style. I just do music because I grew up in a house where every genre of music was exposed and given to me without me being able to ask or even thinking about asking what kind of music that was it was just music. And so everything they read your way you liked. If I don't like I don't listen. I don't comment. I don't say I don't like it because it might not talk to me at the time when I'm listening to it and then later on when I step back I'm like I'm this nice.

So I always take a second or third listen to everything because it's not easy to want to understand a piece of art it's the first time you look at it some people are gifted to that. And in doing that. And me I'm not because I know how hard it is to create a piece of art even if you spent in books or songs. Well you do it very well. I'd like our listeners to know a little bit about your background. You started performing at six in your mother's theatrical troupe and then what happened after that. What happened after that my brothers decided to have a musical group. And I wanted to be a cover cover band. So that's how I get access to all this music. And some of them I own this CD. And as I continue singing with them I never stop singing as far as I can recall. Wonderful. Now about the sort of crossing of all of the musical genres and and just being a part of all of this music some people

describe put you in a category called World music would you would you put yourself there or would you just say I don't like Goriot Oh OK tell me. Just the way that just the way it is. I mean we've been categorized in dividing ourselves instead of living together and accepting the differences. But I think it's just human nature to be able to to categorize and to. It's for me is a sign of insecurity. If you want to cut to something is because you want to be able to control it. And if you can't control it then it becomes a threat. And for me it's not about threat is about it's accepting the differences of the people. We are not all the same we don't speak the same language but we are one humanity. So within that humanity. There are diversities that we train. We have been trying since the existence of humankind on earth to just dividing category to be able to rule. And it's just I don't care. I mean my music is music so much I want to call it pop music or music you want to call it

world music or write it whatever you want to call it just got it. Well one of the things I very much enjoy that is kind of a signature part of your style is your many collaboration with various artists and my goodness you've you've collaborated with so many Carlos Santana Alicia Keys Ziggy Marley Branford Marsalis. There's just a few of the people in the past on this album Dianne Reeves and bino. And I wanted our listeners to hear a piece that you do with Bino called Move on. JULIE. OK you can't see me Angelica but I'm dancing in the studio but I can feel it. I can feel it.

I love it and I want to alert our listeners that in case you're thinking it too sounds a little familiar it's Curtis Mayfield's move on up that you took a little piece from us and how did you happen to decide to do a piece based on his original move on up. I heard good dismay I feel I was growing up in Africa I was in my teen age and. I was not really speaking English Very much so but what I what I realize is well one could just make you know ripe it triggers heated discussion between my brothers and his friend that we discussed and vividly with passion about under privileged kids of America. And I was looking at them that and I'm not you guys are morons. That can't be any of the privileged kids in America. America is the biggest country in the world and the richest and I know that poor people there are two women right. It's something that was always. It was it's how it's always baffles me too to fink about rich

country having poor people. I mean we are poor in Africa I mean we appoint my country but we we we have lived like that for a long time and we managed to get through. But there are rich people also at the same time. But the rich people the rich peoples number really low compared to what it is in the rich countries. So I can I could not put one want together and and that's come about when I was writing this album and I was like we are living in a time or time in what we are doing right now to try to figure out out how are we going to get out of it. We are. Bet in the future for kids. We've all those warning that we are putting in the hands of the one that created the whole disinterment we. How are we going to see a positive side of this. How are we going to allow our youth to continue dreaming adult ousts Us Better and How can we find a way to continue believing that to dream a fortune can be achieved even if just

situation at a time so hard. Well that's a very deep statement and I want to listen know that that's one of the joys of this album that you go very deep as you've just stated but you also have a lot of fun on the album which I enjoy a little bit of kind of a Caribbean influence I heard and a lot of other things but here's my favorite I got to say one of the things that just tickled me so you do a lot of re mixing of old classics and one of the remakes as you did was James Brown's cold sweat so listeners now so I want you to pay attention because we're going to start with the original James Brown and then we're going to switch to Angelica's version of it. My.

Job. And all my friends know I'm a huge James Brown fan. I might have to put James Brown down for you because there is a barrel yet I have to tell you I love it. I dance around in my office and I love James Brown I was fortunate enough to meet again when I was doing this album I wanted him to appear in last time but he was already very very sick and he couldn't make it. I mean just wrong is the artist really because I've heard many many of the artists singing in English and been in is a French speaking country. And when he come up with these funky grooves I'm like I want to learn English you sing like these guys. Stop putting my lyrics on it. You don't want to hear half of it. My parents were looking at me where I'm from. I'm wondering in general do you think that your success. Oh yeah and you can decide.

You can tell me if you think that you're successful at this point in America indicates that there is much more interest in African singers today in this country now of course. Miriam Akiba had some success in years past and now there is a new musical on Broadway called Filo which celebrates the life of Philo Kuti who died in 2007 who was a musician from Nigeria. Are you seeing a wave of interest in Africans and their music. I think since I've been coming here since 1981 I've always received the warm wide open welcome from the American public. It started with a litany of people coming to see what kind of fashion at that time you have to be in to come and see African music. But there were interest in the 90s for the African music and that interest year after you have grown up and the thing is that the thing is people are starting to realize that the music from Africa is already part of

their life for centuries because without the blues verse no rock'n'roll Fresno R&B rez no jazz no soul music book country so there's no not one music more than music from America that can exist without. The blues so I think people are realizing that for as much more we can learn about what we have been listening to and time evolve and people evolve also and they want to listen to the world becomes a global village. So if you want to know when they're going to places when they go to Africa at least they know that saying when you go to Africa I say you know this artist you've seen this. This artist African art is somewhere it opens people's hearts to you and open the doors to you. A lot of American tourists have come to me and say we want to be an after we saw your concert. And we went to your family house they even come with picture of the the front door of my family house from my village. And they

say many people love you there every time we say we know it's really key to everything. Everybody was there really to to I mean to welcome us in their homes. That's what the African music does to bring people together. You go somewhere and we have the music you can start a conversation. Oh that's beautiful. Ojo is your eighth album if my math is correct. I don't know I don't know. OK I think that's right. And I looked it up and it's a small town in the Republic of Congo. But it also means something it means on your own and I wondered if that had some special meaning for you at this juncture in your musical journey. The term oh yeah. Oh yeah I mean is beauty of Arts beauty of the spirit of humankind in Europe. OK. And I decided to call the album that because. First of all this album come about when my father passed away three years ago. And one of the things that he said to me before he passed away was let me you know it's a constant any of my musical

engagement to come and seem even if you still seek I'll come when I have the time. Not because of him that because I was wont to do what I'm doing and since I was a child that I was blown he saw that that's was the mission God sent me on earth to do. That I have just to be happy with didn't make people happy that's all it is about. And I have trouble letting my father go I have to say every three years after talking about it is difficult for me. And the best way to get over my grief and to say thank you that I don't have time to thank my father enough for was through music because he is the one that really really really opened the house to music but the instrument for my brother when they decided to bend together and free a room in that tiny little house of ours where we need desperately needs but need space and free a whole room for them to be able to rehearse. My dad was the one that fought for all of us to go to school and to stay in

school despite the pressure of the family in the society. So for me that is the beauty of the human spirit. And that is the beauty of arts that does that to kids when kids are exposed to art in the early early age they become a better adult. And one of the things that your music also brings with it is just this wonderful rich history and heritage and I want to read you something that one of your biggest fans one of my friends Mark Edwards sent to me when I told him I'd be interviewing you. He said Her music is like your gumbo from Louisiana both in taste and heritage. It's a stew little seafood and pork and spice and rice and okra French Cajun meats African meats Louisiana buy you something different spicy and satisfying. And I think that's fabulous. That's a yes I did all that. We like that about it. I want to know. I know it's so hard because you have so many fabulous songs. Is there one that you

particularly like of all that's the question I don't answer. I know what I I always ask artists and they don't want to. OK give me two or three that are really at your top. How about that. Yeah and the thing is all of the songs on this album. I love them all. OK well since you do so much collaboration with fabulous other artists do you have a favorite among some of the artists that you've worked with. The good that I'm not saying anything you're not giving me anything here I let you do it because the way you like it is the way it's going to be because every person appreciates this album differently and they have their favorite. So I don't want to after that. You pick your favorite and I love it anyway. OK all right. All right well let me put this way. Is there any one particular style because you do everything that you happen to enjoy more at this moment because we know that you have to go back to everything at some point. How about that. All of them. So that

said that you're not good at all. What have you not done that you think you would like to do that we can look forward to seeing perhaps in some new work of yours. I don't know I have so much stuff going in my brain. And when he's ready when he's going to hear it I don't know. You don't know. I don't know the thing is I always follow my inspiration and my inspiration have no schedule and it's something that I never question and never. So I can't tell you something now it might be different something comes out so I don't know. I really don't know. Well one of the things that my friend Mark is really pleased with is your work with the been a nice guitar player Lionel. Yes. He says he's brilliant and offers a lot of interest I know that he worked on this particular album as well. Yeah talking about his Definitely I mean that's one of the reason I call you on there is because I know that he was going to understand he

was still new younger because the music that on this album the music from my big brother we have 15 years gap in between myself and the first born of my my my my parents but I was fortunate enough to be exposed to it as much as he was exposed to it. And every song when we as a as a story he has a story too. That's why he's on this album. Fabulous and you have many more stories to tell and a lot of stories to tell on this album. Boy oh Angela Kito thank you so much for joining us. You're very welcome. We are going out on your song by Hiya which is the favorite of my friend Mark Edwards. And it's from an earlier album black ivory soul. Angela he will be performing at the Somerville Theatre this Friday and Saturday. For more information visit Somerville theater on line dot com. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show by visiting our website at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley. This is the Kalak Rossley show.

Today's program was engineered by Antonio only art and produced by Chelsea and our production assistant as a.. White knuckle beat. We are production of WGBH radio Boston NPR station for news and culture.