Pantechnicon; Marcel Marceau

The day I think. And now this has to grow. And it's a tool. And in those 20 years they have a feeling we have growth from the public and from my work too in the sense that I am interested in the theatre. If they if they can grow in my out you see. Marcel Marceau is recognized as the world's greatest performer of mine. It is due to his craftsmanship that this engine art has been successfully revived on an international level. I'm Eleanor stout. I'm Robert Shiller's and this is Penn technical. Your weekly magazine of entertainment in the arts brought you in part through the support of the Massachusetts Council on the arts and humanities. More so much interest in mind began as early as the age of five when he became entranced with the films of Charlie

Chaplin. His parents encouraged him to pursue a career in the theater but we for formal training began World War Two broke out and were in the French army. Marcel Marceau entertain the troops the troops the troops traps. Entertain the troops with pantomime performances later after intensive study which you know also presented for the first time. Here is what first creation called beep whose name was suggested by the character Pippin Charles Dickens Great Expectations as bit the pantomime used to Europe in 1947 returning to Paris in order to form his own company. And since then. Marcel Marceau is performed worldwide to sellout audiences and is now in Boston celebrating his 20th anniversary of American tours. I think that at the start I don't think the public was interested in my Because they

didn't know what MIME was their words in ballet or Purab because they were well-known and mime and the complete theory discovered after the Second World War. But they came to see mass and muscle and seeing mass so that the skull of the out of my in the theater. You see though that people were not aware that Chaplin Keaton and Stallone and how they were mindless when they did movies and they were thinking that they didn't talk because his films were silent. But today when we sue we see those films in the area of talking films. We are aware that the style of these great actors where pantomime mists. It was a style of mixing at privacy a classic dance ballet and acting and the study ization the way they they played like circus clowns. Being actors at the same time made it so fantastic. I think that the theatre being which is elusive. That means without scenery which requires much more imagination for the public because so much which is not seen but is

seen in the mind of the public. For instance in the character in the high society party or as a lion tamer people sees invisible visible because it is recreated physically and the this has to become like a magician he makes to make the people see the props and the scenery which isn't there. And I think one there are two gestures or there are two attitudes that you do which I absolutely love. One of them is the wall. That imaginary wall is so visible when you take your hands and you go along the wall. Everybody in the audience just knows it's there. And the other one is when you're leaning on the mantel. Well it has become classic Now yes but you see it is. I wanted to say this was considered. Magic numbers at the start when the public when it was a number like the cage but then it becomes the grammar of mind you see where they wanted to say that today if I am in the room and I want to go with but I am dizzy I will hold myself as my hands

on an imaginary wall which is part of you see what the public has except slowly is. This is tricks because the usual grammar of mine. That means there are words I use in the play and you would say I'm sitting going to chair and you would say that in many situations which are different but you would use the word chair to say that you are going to sit on a chair. The public is going to have to to see it. I am going to a garden. You use the same words in different situations in mind now because I have created new movements which is how to catch a butterfly how to lean against mental peace. It has to be within an action and natural situation and maybe in a few years there when the public will know it it will become just part of the act and no more something special. Of course there is always the question of style. I would always wonder how does he do it. But this is something special and of course I think that when a place Classic people go

back to see it because it doesn't change in time in a certain way. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU and it's mathematics. If you miss a timing you missed like a battery in music you see. Yeah offbeat. You're using music more and more. I notice particularly with contrast. Yes because contrast needed music because it is a flesh of even swing sort of life which very stylized scenes which happen in a segment of seconds know the background has to be realistic music to give to the public. He made it in his imagination the place where it is.

Let's put it this way the man who was shot. My fighting squared if you will hear the firing squad. You you don't know what happened to him you think that he's just swinging from not feeling well. Then you have to hear this weight of playing square. There's an importance to know that in mind you have to you can be very much silent. Like use maturity old age some numbers require pure silence. But you can also have music which is a counterpoint to your action and I think that this has never to be put in a cage. That because he deals with sound and he has not to use music. I think music is part of science also. They knew so much science in music. This is where I use music when I want to use music and he was silence when I wonder you'll silence beep is a street musician and plays as being a great artist. He is fitting in his fiddle and fighting against music band. Bresch you say brash man Bret. Bless your brass band and this is bin music composed specially for the number.

But I haven't heard them Arabs are completely silent like the evening party or David David and yet but other use only music in the beginning which fades old slowly goes to silence and I remember having visited cousin. The little cities as we met in Boston in Boston we later made pottery glee as Santa one. It was in 61 he visited the master in his home he had come to see the show and he said he was wondering about the use of music saying he liked very much that it went from back most music in silence and came back again. Like music is just part of silence and comes back like and has your room and be aware of air suddenly by the air is there even when other aware of it it is there all the time and life is filled with music all the time.

Yes I noticed that in getting a feeling for the entire program. Music comes in it flows out again is very much like a tapestry in that it's very gentle. This is exactly one of Sharia law and yes it is weather. And I like very much that from a mass of my cousins. He was shoving missed. He wasn't saying Why I could have you the courage to take music and the good out of it that he loved it you see. And I remember I said if you know of Bruce song The French director boy's song who did it. A condemned man a man was condemned to death and escaped from prison. And it was a great film. There was a moment when the president goes out and there is a glimpse of more Mozart's music which is played and goes out and I was aware that he was doing what we do too. Maybe it was his idea also in the same time he gets same ideas. But I know they have dances since I started but I think that in films you can find this now. Directors are using flashes of music you know once it's that well.

VIENE this country in Death in Venice is uses moments of Mahler's Symphony. And he will not use the word music he will use only parts and I think it's great because it gives the feeling where you use varied music too. I notice you are valid on your guitar. Yes well this is yes this is for those of a bit of a love and the dress are members of a pedestal ask me to have music. Yes it is the beginning and the end. Its like a leitmotif you see it would remember the feeling. What does the statement you're making in the mask maker I don't think I make a statement that is very interesting is that another one he creates never makes a statement just because he does a statement first very often becomes too intellectual. I think that instinct says my subconscious was had a need to create the mass make up and from the mass make up I discover the philosophy which was

in me and then they could analyze or recreate and the mass maker is that we are all doing masks and having masks all alive. Kerry masks the mask of. Put it politeness the mask of hypocrisy is sometimes the mask of being happy when we are not. The mass different mass the mask of cruelty the act with masks all the time and there is one moment in one life when you try to take over the mask the grinning mask which is stacked to a phase and when we try to relieve it then you're left in our solitude which is the real agony of men and the sordid you know of men is not something sad. It's when he has put his face bare and when he finds a moment of truth of himself the worst men in the world has a moment of true awareness which he will not share with the world because he plays a game. And this is why my philosophy if you want to say that some games are dangerous others pain which people don't show some courage.

We take on faces not to tell the truth something because we don't want to hurt sometimes because we. And to protect us at the relief of the mass maker the end is that the coming of the men left in solitude with his real face is almost the passion of all men. And there's moments where mime inventive has his humanity and I think that even number stands out in time. It's before it's because there is at and advocation with everyone in one man. The end attitude in the mask maker seems to be a very positive one as I remember and I and so much of your work most of your work seems to be either humorous or positive. Is that how you feel about. Yes I think even a sense that the mast maker does not and said Lee it's a relief in the same time so dignified. Yes and he's not dead he's relieved because he has after all he has blinded himself taking over the last mask is toward his own face. But it's a symbol and I think the

public feels it like this leg of music ends and a movement ends and with the music and there's that music and a triumph. But it needs always an equal to the listener. And I think that the mime I play which does not leave and they call to the public have no result. They don't leave anything. And I think that the play has never to be finished really because when the play's finished it starts to work in the county in the mind of the public. And this is where it should be. Never and then with a combination all the time eat eat eat anything with you that

you're getting and how do you go about developing. Your sketches you come to mind. How do you know what the seed is in and how you elaborate. That is you must be changing it all the time not just know what is important is when you construct any composer or any creator any writer has a contra construct onto a basis maybe more style and meaning. It's not because you're right that you're right or you're right because you tell something but there's a certain style which move the people. It's not because you play a guitar that you're a guitarist guitarist. The master is a man who creates such an emotion of his instrument that the Master has it and he does what they what he wants with it and he creates the the great artistry and I think that if you do pantomime which is my craft I have to stay also on several levels. One is

style like a ballet dancer control of the body and create the illusion through style or to a city in astonishment. Second is the meaning and then the public is caught between meaning and style where the classics did when they said play has to please and to touch. Please buy the form and the style touch by the content. You see where they said no the classic have said it before. This is why. The reflection of an artist is to create on those different levels. Then if I create a new piece I have to create something which means to people because it's related to their own life. They can reflect on like love peace war sufferance death life at the same time have to create the style of the situation. For instance for years I was astonished when it when I was very young and created the number I catch as a butterfly. I remember where I was. It was a long

time ago really I created this number and I can give you this time and it doesn't change. Why. Because we don't cry because about the phrase dying but we cry because the wings of the butterfly which dies becomes the beating of a heart. And then we indemnify the frigidity of the wings of the butterfly was dying for the fragility of our own heartbeat and then when the butterfly is freed another brother his freedom goes away. The man is happy that the butterfly goes away but in the same time he is said because well goes away is his own childhood the remembrance of his obvious past maybe something he wants to capture in time which goes and he is aware of Fred's unity of time and this is a sample of these I mean my where the public sometimes his genius. Because when you create a number and it's ingenious when I create this number I want to just to show how you catch a butterfly. I'm interested in the role of your partner. Very

well play very has its function but the question of the fact of here very is you know in the middle age where there was a pantomime in the court a pantomime in the street on the fair theater there were announcers which had the great good all day and the question was thrilling as trumpets and also the cost you was had a certain panache like there were lords you know from the cult and there were no answers and there are nouns and numbers. I have kept this tradition of good order of 18th century announcer. Like in the court theater or in the fair theater as I said before NPR very Is this kind of mind who has been in my company and is a very good mime as an actor. But since I do my one man show he has become the unknowns of Marcel Marceau. How old were you when you became interested in pantomime. When I was a child we started way back then. Yes of course and then I.

I think that what is so good in an artist and every creator that he does notice time he doesn't really because he notices time in the progress is that it is about you know this is the time when he sees the people around him. He said to the children who we become told this is a new generation coming. But it when his art stays young he says young I would say that we're not his gets older. He has to be better if he is not better he has to stop. But the challenge that must be. No it's all right. It's a challenge yes but it's not. I would say that it's I'm very graced by by Distin need to have a very good health to have beauty there is an age for years and there's a biological age. First of all there's a constitution. You have to have a very slow heartbeat. You have to be an edit you have to be very young in your body and in your mind if not you're going to continue. And I was amazed to remember one thing which struck my mind now when I was a child I love champions films of course as everybody

does. I was never interested me the age of chipped in. And I remember now I can say it quietly when I was a kid and saw modern times champion was at that time 50 years old. And for me he was 25. You see and if I would have if somebody would have told me you know what's happened is 50 years old I would that would have terribly been growing in my I know that's impossible because I saw him he was young you see this is why I find stupid very often. Where do you when excuse me when a critic or a newspaper person would tell you hold are you which means nothing. You see what I mean what difference does it mean. Yes yes what ho good-I it was important to us. Oh you see this is what counts I think because I think the public has to be absolutely not aware. Of anything except of the earth you approach and this was out and you approach him. It's that important you see. It's important that the there is to be perfection. The only thing which calms is

perfection. It seems that the art of mind has certainly increased. Certainly you must see this to be the case. Well in America today I would say that in all university towns there are people I would say young in age to start now pantomime and if they are good they would be good in ten years and in 20 years if they're not dead it is finished in five years. Now what we what prevents this time in 10 years we can say this company will grow This is the thing we will be strong. We can predict now already talent and there is certainly talent in the States now because so many have read my students came back and formed their own groups. Some perform alone and with their wife they met in the school it happened also the young people met in my school. It has happened. Some influence by my work will say they have studied with me they have never studied with me.

I have taken five lessons and already the teaching. Oh really have you had everything happening with fantastic people. And some were bad and some were fake and others well honest. Then I would say one thing is sure that in America 600 universities the was penned by groups though they are different. There is a puppet theatre in Boston who is very good that I've seen them they're very good and there are several mime groups in San Francisco and of his con scene in New York. It starts but not only in America that companies will start all over the world and Russia and Japan and France and it's an international language all this piling that I must be I say very humbly but I say because I mean it. I think I have opened the door to that and I created this because before I did my work I studied was a can do group was my teacher. But he had never had a mind theatre on his own he was only teaching but I were the first after the Second World War. His bio diesel started

before me but he then turned from pantomime to regular direction in speaking theater. I were the first who created the mime theater. And today through my inference there might have groups but there must smile sometimes I hear Omar Sosa traditional classic My God I know what we are doing you know things you say and I smile because they say that it took me 20 years to create the style and this will go on for a hundred years in the sense that when you when when when. Nowhere and pretty power. Could you fight Lessig ballet which existed since hundred years but they could defy the 19th century a certain clear grafitti it still is classic today and valid. And none of that came out of any dance. That means it's from the roots of qualification of pressing dance modern dance as emerged from the roots of what we have created now which is classic and modern in the same time. New material will be created but this doesn't mean that we're traditional because the tradition has

nothing existed before us in the sense that we don't know how the minds played in the 19th century. They left nothing just scenario and grab viewer images but they did not leave like music does know what's. We can read most of these notes from the 70s from the 18th century or before but history now you know because it's written as mime an Oriental art. Did it start out in the orient it started since men exist but it was not qualified and we don't know it was magnified in statues Greek Roman. It was there were bias also but they didn't leave anything they lived on see it or knew names and we know there was a great start and Peter the mime in the antiquity mind as really exists in the comment that the lathi in the side and films in the 19th century of course. And since we have recreated it but we're lucky today that we have movies and my work has been recorded in films and studied and this is where we leave something but imagine the tragedy of a magnet. Nobody has seen you just get downs but when you see

Norry if you can imagine today he was but at least the dance of Nijinsky still written down. And if we have schools where they will have no school to carry on the art to continue then in 50 years if the world has not collapsed if we are if something is not it won't happen where we say this and we hope it with all our heart and if our is left in the 20th century as something we have to leave to the people for the 21st century. And what you can't leave to the previous positivity every can relieve a ruling means. But we have to leave also art and culture. And if this is left is this is this is not destroyed then I would say that it will go on for centuries. Thinking about film how did you enjoy playing in the film shank when I think this was a very interesting film. It was not a commercial success because the people did not know what it was about and Paramount is a kind of big firm which when a film

is not commercially successful first they drop it because they are so rich they can afford to drive anything with it it has to be an immediate commercial success and Shanks was a very interesting film for me. A cult film which will be released I predicted in 70 years and will become a success then. There were some flaws in the film it was uneven. It was released there was no way it was. Yes last year I but you know when you didn't make money because the public didn't know what it was Shang said it was so unusual for it was Marcel Marceau talk yes but it was stupid to say no no no not from you it was me and the other ties and because the public is not going to see most of us will talk there once when they love him in the theatre or they like even the theatre they want to see him with a certain magic in films and not I would go to see Norrie of talk you see and the and the very they should have said so in his debut of something very weird and special which is a pantomime within a real film. But they don't know how to

advertise I'm not hired by them to advertise. They did their own way and very badly and then the people didn't know even that there was playing in the film and when they were aware that we didn't exist anymore. But we have screened it before students and it was fantastically received even with discussions because a feeling is uneven I say there were flaws in the film but. I tell you frankly if I would have one cent for everything which came out released commercially and was less good than shank it would be a millionaire today you see when something I want to say that so many things which are worse and uncommercial circuit that I would say that Chang's I'm absolutely proud to have done it because it's an interesting film which opens a great door to pantomime in films in modern films and they can be released again people would say ah it was an interesting film but it happens. So you've done acting to you. Yes I did I wrote at one point I played in this Shanks I played two characters and it's a very strange feeling I advise people to see it that they're going in that little

plot how they had to write to Paramount to release it again. Oh I see his bed but Shanks will be the fate of everybody say Have you seen Shanks notice when it will come out again. People will go. What's going to happen to your two sons are they interested in following in the fall that's what's left of one son I have is interested he is. He doesn't like our civilization. Oh he didn't say to end I was he was Asian of the establishment of us he was Asian and he is at war with that and he loves all civilizations. He says that you have destroyed all the great civilizations. You know what it was the beginning about and then he loves all the good he once thought to fight the old Indian civilization goes to Mexico to live the real authentic life because I think that white men have only destroyed civilizations. This is what my son says you see. And with some things I agree with him it's a way says it is an angry young man 20 years old and about but he wants to experience and he is very interested in going to those old

places to find old civilizations. And it's very exciting and I encourage him because it's it goes to the source. And I like that he he he fights on his own terms and he wants to find the sudden truths and he says we are condemned with the way we live and we have to start all over again. Well he is anyway he feels he is using less and when I would do theater I create my own world and I want to to to to create a new man and a new kind of man. And this is where the public goes to the theater to have the feeling that he is a new kind of man. And you understand what I mean. Yes the theatre offers a possibility of creating a new world. And the other son is does music ballads folklore but in France of course has a band. So he's you know it was his and mine and his father. No one is a mime but in their own kind.

Thank you for being with us today. We've been talking this pantomime asked Marcel Marceau who is presently appearing at Boston Children's Theater on a national tour celebrating 20 years of American engagement. This is Eleanor Stone and Robert Taylor to the Pentagon is produced for WGBH radio by Greg Fitzgerald. This is the eastern Public Radio Network.