Public Affairs; United States Civil Rights Commission Hearings On Boston School Desegregation

From Boston. National Public Radio presents a special report the hearings of the United States Commission on Civil Rights. The Boston school desegregation case. Reporting from NPR member station WGBH. Here is Frankfurt's Marcus. This was the final day of classes in the Boston Public School System. And I could emic term that captured national headlines for the strife over desegregation as ordered by a federal district court judge W. Arthur Garrity Jr. as an investigation into the turmoil. And as a springboard for preventing further trouble next year the Civil Rights Commission traveled to Boston this week for five days of extensive hearings. Tonight a glimpse at the controversial role of police throughout the busing tensions from the patrolman's perspective. Law enforcement administrators and private experts offer testimony as well. Finally excerpts from appearances before the commission at an open session held this afternoon before the staff departed for Washington D.C.. As a commission appointed by the president and confirmed by the Congress it has no regulatory

authority but it is charged with submitting recommendations to both branches of government for an overview of the week's events ending today. Here is reporter David Friedberg. The six commissioners and their staff of dozens will probably return to Washington with frustration on the momentous challenge of achieving racial harmony in a metropolitan school system in exhaustive and exhausting hearings all day since Monday. They question scores of witnesses under federal subpoena on what transpired during this academic term when phase one of court ordered integration began in Boston in the year marked by violent disruption and quiet easing of tensions. Public education wore many faces and leading personalities on all sides of the dispute testified this week. A chorus of witnesses representing divergent opinions agreed on the need for an increased federal presence as it was called which translates into troops and marshals standing by to

rebuff disorder should it erupt again next fall. Young people in person and by reference have pleaded with members of the commission for parents who would interfere not to obstruct desegregation efforts. School administrators conveyed the desperate straits in which education happens when budget deficiencies rob the children. A dire picture of the public schools both in black and white neighborhoods emerged this week as witnesses described dilapidated physical conditions at old Boston institutions of learning. The usual charges that politicians meddle with opportunism rang consistently through the hearing room at the John F. Kennedy federal building in Government Center downtown. Local religious leaders who maintained a low profile through phase one pledged a more dynamic and supportive role when integration expands citywide in September. Opponents of court ordered busing raised their protests this week arguing

for neighborhood schools and against shipping off their children for schools unknown. But the commissioners heard as well from parents who formerly resisted desegregation. But now see it as the inevitable legal edict. And what's more a necessary step toward social progress. Black citizens who work with private community development groups lambasted the city's leadership and the racist elements of white Boston. The president of the NWA Sepi whose organization initially brought suit to compel busing charged earnestly that racism has a secure home in this city and he laid the blame with right wing officials. The school committee an all white board of education objected to the mere presence of a civil rights investigation in Boston and denied any wrongdoing even for acts which led them to a citation for contempt of federal court. Boston police depicted a frightening image of the patrolman's plight while Trouble was breaking out among

students. But earlier in the week a White youngster related to the commission how police would provoke pupils already driven by resentment and the predictable colliding opinions were voiced this afternoon during a prearranged open session. As the final item on a jam packed agenda. The commissioners who for the most part constitute an unpretentious and liberal body contended with several legal disputes this week. One resulted in cancellation of the panel on the media and what impact news coverage had on desegregation. A topic of vital interest to the commission members sacrificed testimony because Robert Healy editor of The Boston Globe announced he would not comply with his subpoena for fear of jeopardizing his privilege as a journalist. The matter is still under advisement although there were indications today that the commissioners may revoke their order out of respect for the First Amendment guarantee of a free press. Another legal hassle in which the

commission seemed much less benign arose from the pleading of constitutional immunity by members of a leading anti bussing organization called Roar. At one point today the Civil Rights Commission voted to refer the refusals to the Federal Department of Justice for possible court action but afraid they might have acted too hastily. The commissioners later voted to table the question for private deliberation. While viewpoints varied widely only anti busing forces made insults to the commission. Yesterday John Kerrigan of the school committee used religious slurs that stirred one commissioner Rabbi Mary Saltzman to object to extending Kerrigan a further platform. One glaring gap in the list of witnesses was the lack of young people except for two high school students. As it is children over whom this battle is waged their voices were conspicuously missing from most of the debate. The United States Commission on Civil Rights

must now convert the disjointed record of these proceedings into a reasoned report for the president and Congress. A news conference is tentatively scheduled in Boston for mid August when the commissioners will unveil their findings. In the meantime the fatigued staff must cut through the volume of rhetoric and offer some constructive recommendations for phase two of court order desegregation starting in the fall. This is David Freud the first witness at today's civil rights commission hearings was Raymond Gallivan a professor in the administration of justice department at the University of Missouri Galvin served as a consultant to the commission in the preparation of a report on the role of the Boston Police Department in the desegregation crisis. On September 12 school open and. The general plan was to have low visibility throughout a limited number of police officers for instance where at South Boston High these people were not

dressed in riot regalia in any way. And at least or at least to move the TPF to tactical patrol force from where it was stationed at. At White stadium move it in closer so it could be used if needed by Monday. The opening was on a Thursday by Monday the TPF had assume responsibilities for crowd control in south Boston. A second major event that brought the police into the school was associated again with the South Boston High. There's a famous spaghetti throwing incident I don't know if it's been referred to in the here in the in the lunchroom at South Boston High disturbance started to occur in which trays were thrown. A police officer who was inside was in was in the middle of this process and he called for assistance to quell the disturbance. And from that point on there at least was serious consideration of bringing police officers into the high

schools. On October 7th occurred the Jean Louis incident where a black Haitian was pulled from his car and suffered a very severe beating at the hands of a crowd which was associated or which was breaking up after a demonstration in front of one of the Segregated schools. The next incident was probably the same day whereby the judge took under advisement the mayor's request for a one hundred twenty five federal marshals. On the 9th of October the judge ruled against that ordering the mayor to request assistance from the state before he used up his possibilities of coming to the federal government. He was ordered to request originally the state

police and MDC which is the metropolitan district police and eventually the National Guard and when he had used up those options if he still had a problem he should come back. Under those circumstances the state police moved in to South Boston. Then they moved in on the 10th with approximately 300 officers and assumed the basic policing of the segregation responsibility within the South Boston area along with a hundred officers from MDC. The MDC officers had the responsibility for an annex of the South Boston High School and approximately 100 officers. Up to that time they had committed about 25 officers as part of the regular responsibility. All during this period there were of course demonstrations at a number of schools. It's the pattern seems to be that most of the major problems outside the schools were at South Boston and there were large difficulties of a considerable amount of difficulty at Hyde Park in high school

inside the occasional different difficulties at Roslindale. This sort of pattern I think will come out from the officers involved. Professor Raymond Gallivan a consultant to the Commission on Civil Rights. The bulk of the morning's testimony was devoted to the various police agencies with responsibility in the city of Boston including the state police the Metropolitan District Commission and the Boston Police Department. Next we'll hear the testimony of Deputy Superintendent Joseph Rowan of the Boston police and Charles Berry the state's secretary of public safety. What were your intelligence estimates of the potential for resistance at South Boston High School. They ran the full gamut from there wouldn't be anybody there to work there would be a lot of very large crowd there. Realistically we anticipated it would be a crowd in on the first day I think there were about 300 people and a considerable number of those

people with the press I think the press numbered about 80 people there. Yes in a normal operating situation. Quite aside from school desegregation when you went to support the demonstration Are there standard procedures that can be taken to defuse that situation if you don't personally knowing the community or from the operational point of view of the area commander. Absolutely. Could you explain contrary to a prior witness here the record of the Boston Police Department and over the 60s I think it is it is without comparison and as far as they're successful in handling large groups of people. I would like to preface this by saying that I can fully understand why the commission is here. I can fully understand why the increase of being made and I can fully understand why the whole picture was being observed. And I think this is good. But the disturbing thing to

me personally is the amount of of negative type of testimony which has been given I can understand why that is necessary. But I would hope that the commission would also look at the many positive things that occurred over in South Boston by the law enforcement agencies that many commendable things which no doubt could be documented if you wish and would find a way. The number of incidents that occurred which Sure. In retrospect it would be you so very very difficult to have prevented in the first place where we were less lets get back into the preparations for a demonstration and how you can defuse it. The record over the 60s where the department established direct communications with people that were involved in demonstrations we one of the first departments to to seek out those people who were having a demonstration consult with them and inform them that they had their constitutional right. But by the same

token they should not inconvenience large numbers of other people by so doing. Superintendent Jordan with the other officers in the bar I just say something Mr. Council because I I seem I'm sure the commissioners and I like to just correct an impression you indicated I made to arrest and that seems to you place a great significance at least I get the impression when I made those two arrests one unsolved Boston want to hypoxic the group of police personnel that were there were fully committed to maintaining our around the boxes. I was the one that saw the rock thrown I was the one that chased him. Another thing I like to say and I'm sure the commissioners want to be fair Secretary Barry's indicated this seems to be a whole negative approach to the school problem that the magnificent job that I think the personnel the Boston Police Department done during this particular period is being demeaned by some of the witnesses that you have called it. For example Mr.

Gavin Goldman he's a so-called expert. He taught at a university I teach at Northeastern I have thought of for five years. Does that make me an expert on the things that you approach one isolated incident combi a point on opening day and Secretary Barry's indicated there's been hundreds and hundreds of these same incidents but you seem to you're focusing on that one and I I just feel and I'm sure the commission wants to be fair about this. You know you get the overview of the entire operation which I think that they is completely missing here the long hours we spent every day we get through from the field would come in and critique it. What went wrong what do we what do we do wrong maybe we will do better the next day. I was about to get to this question well try me just say something about I saw the critique that Mr. Galban wrote for this commission evidently. Or you have a large input and you seem to place a great deal of credibility in the

fact that the Boston Police Department didn't do any internal security problems inside the school. Our whole approach was in the public sector we were we were concerned with the responsibility of transporting the students safely across the various locations. We had many many meetings with the school apart. We just stablished report them in terms of jurisdiction that we would be guided by their counsel and advice as to what they need in the school. Inside the schools on time. Now when you examine this whole school problem internally it really didn't develop acutely until we've been committed to some of the 11th when we had an incident cell Boston high. Many of the Headmasters and principals didn't want police or police presence inside the school. Now we concurred with that. But prior to the opening day of school we talked to I think five or six departments

police departments throughout the country and they were they. We borrowed from them what they had learned in their particular problem of desegregation. We implemented in those you know operational plans. We had the the experts from Prince George's County Maryland which experienced this desegregation came up and personally spoke to us about. Now they all were of one mind. Security within the school should come from the school. We acquiesced to that. We allow them to make decisions in terms of the needed time inside the school. That's why we ended up with a large group of police officers inside of Boston High School inside of High Pockets. But does this hundreds of other schools if they were one on one no police officer be commissioner of the Boston Police Department is Robert DeGrazia and Degrassi is role during the desegregation dispute has been the subject of frequent criticism by the anti busing forces in the city for what they called police brutality and his handling of the

South Boston disturbances. And by the pro busing forces for what they saw as a profile so low as to be ineffective. The Grazia was asked to evaluate the role of the media in the crisis. The local media understood the problem does not mean they whitewashed the news. They understood what was going on they reported it accurately and there was good involvement with police personnel and the news media. National news media I feel attempted to justify their existence in Boston and therefore their reporting was not as accurate or sensationalized maybe as the term to use as the local news media. Would you say that the predominantly the in the opening of schools occurred without major incidents and most of the schools in Boston and practically all of the schools in

Boston worked very well. The major incident again was at South Boston. And this was actually the catalyst for the difficulties that we had later on in other schools and which have continued to this date. One final question from me I'd like you to comment on the suggestion that we have heard quite a few times that there should be a federal police presence in Boston this time. Well we've certainly made a lot of it looks like it was a very good question asked the TV cameraman just got up. Put me in a bag on this one. This appears of an interesting question all through the morning. Certainly that the question of federal presence. You know we talked about planning in the department. We've talked about plan in other agencies. I hope that there will be federal presence from day one and will be plenty of planning from

day one at the federal level. I'm not too concerned with at this stage a game or was I earlier on the actual number of personnel that would be on the street as enforcement officers from the federal level. What I wanted. I think this is what Mayor White wanted is the onus of federal authority here in the city so that we would have with some of our commanders with some of our supervisors people who could interpret federal law and who could say let's arrest him for that particular charge and then move them into the federal court rather than the local court. I don't think that there's we're hiding any facts or that anyone is not aware of the fact that if someone from South Boston went into the south Boston court during this time he was what we call broomed

out or more technically continued without a finding. And of course the same thing happened if in Roxbury a Roxbury youth or anyone else was sent was brought into the Roxbury court the same thing happened. So what we wanted was the type of involvement which would bring the laws of the federal the federal level into place so that the people who did attempt to keep young people from going to school that they would be justly punished at the end disturbances like you have experienced here where there are two sides to the question. It's exceedingly difficult. More so than usual isn't it. To each policeman who has strong feelings in the matter to be absolutely impartial. Why do you instruct them in cases like this. I hope that everyone realizes that police officers are human beings just like anyone else and they are a product of their

environment and it's been often said that we live in a racist society. So I don't expect that Boston police officers because they're human beings they're going to be any different than any other set of human beings. All we ask of them. We don't. We do not try to change their feelings on a particular group or on a particular Democratic or Republican Party or you know whatever it happens to be. They do have that right. But we ask that they do carry out their sworn duty as they should. And I think particularly because of the situation as it was with a vast amount of police officers and a Boston police department of Irish ancestry that of a great number of them came from South Boston. I think that they deported themselves extremely well. I think that the the the lack of talent and charges brought against the officers even with some people of course attempting because of

court but you'd occasionally do that. And I say as I say with the image that they had on this subject they showed themselves to be true professionals in any area of the city and the people with their comments from any area of the city that they report of themselves extremely well. I I don't know and I was present. I was out in the street most of those times. I don't know where I ever saw a Boston police officer overreact. Certainly there may have been sometimes because they're human beings. But I think that for themselves very well and they kept their personal feelings in control. Boston police commissioner Robert DeGrazia. The Commission on Civil Rights also heard today from a panel of Boston patrolmen including the two top officials of the Boston police patrol and association. Chester Broderick and John Bilodeau. Bilodeau is a member of the tactical patrol force the TPF the elite squad of riot trained officers who thought long and hard duty during the South Boston

incident Bilodeau told the commission of an incident at his daughter's school. Or a teacher there asked the police on duty to remain out of sight so as not to alarm any students Bilodeau saw this move as undue interference in the role of the police in relation to requests for police presence and Rosalind. What was the response and the response that a request made to a situation with the captain. I believe it was McDonald's District 5. He assured me that there were officers there I said well I was aware that they were but it was set up away from the school. We should have their own private motor vehicle by a school teacher and I objected to that. I was sure that my daughter was struck as any form of go to a police officer. They objected to the police acting on the request of that particular school teacher and he said that problem would be corrected in the presence of police would be made. In your professional opinion do you believe. Where do you believe the responsibility for making the decision in terms of police presence at a particular

high school rests with school administrators or with the police department I believe it rests with the school administrators and a police department surely not a school teacher just decide he didn't like the presence of a police officer. And your officer doing officer Broderick in your tour during the first week. Which section of the Boston Police Department did you observe being you utilized most heavily in the school desegregation matters. Do you believe that that was appropriate. No particularly in that one day. There was a demonstration in high school. A call came in shortly after that there was a riot at school a lot of the same men on trucks and buses and rushed them out to high school. After that demonstration was qual there was a call that came in while this was being. There was another demonstration or riot or disturbance at the

school the same officers were rushed from there while we were there were there was a call that people were carrying children in matter. And it was on the same offices and it was while we were going I'm out of that office myself riding in a private vehicle with a. Report from one of the station's gang of 20 25 youngsters gathering up rocks bottles What have you from a vacant lot to a school that were kindergarten children gets goes up to the third grade and we show that we stopped the reporter to stop his vehicle. We immediately pinned badges on and broke up this as we broke up the group. We saw the children and this was quite late in the afternoon by the way.

We saw the children being carried taking out of the school and being placed on buses. Some children so small that they had to be lifted up to the steps. We identified ourselves. The principal at the school and I asked him I asked him where his police protection was. He said it wasn't necessary they did not need any police protection. And then I related to him the incident that we were just involved in which was in in in his view. And as we were relating the incident to one of the other teachers the. Black teacher she objected strongly to the principals telling us that there was no need of police officers at that school because she informed us that the reason the children were getting out of school was that three of the buses that come to pick them up were completely destroyed by possibly the same gang and the buses had to be returned to the shop so no buses come upon the scene. This principal still insisted he did not need

police protection for those children. The following day. Myself I'm getting ahead of that in that story to his room giving details as to how he along with myself had broken up this gang of principle. And as for the principal's remarks approximately 15 minutes later he was called by his room and was informed in my presence as well as his presence that the officer did not want that story out and therefore they killed it. The commission invited two law enforcement experts to testify on their view of the Boston police role during the desegregation crisis. Raymond Calvin a professor at the University of Missouri who was also a commission consultant and James Fisk the former deputy chief of The Los Angeles police well the most

important thing that I would recommend is to make sure that you adequately analyze the nature of the task confronting them and then coordinate the efforts of the various agencies. For example I see the problem of taking buses into schools as a very intricate kind of an operation apparently conducted as such during part of the time. But the most important thing it seems to me is to get the various agencies together identify their tasks and make sure that there is some ability to coordinate their effort. I would add to that that it seems to me that there must be some kind of plan for de-escalation of the police involvement in this because public order in our kind of society can come from the coercive influence of the police over a long period of time. Public Order has to come from the community itself.

Is it unreasonable of the police department to impose certain rules. What is appropriate given the First Amendment also given the responsibility for further in the public order. Yeah I think. I don't want to fall back on some sort of public security because it smacks too much of national security. But I think when you're on the street and you have an operation going I think there have to be arrangements with the press whether it be puling or whatever else that you simply can't have. I don't know whether it's accurate but Commissioner do you said this morning he said 80 out of 300 somebody said 80 out of 300 maybe Barry. OK 80 out of 300 people were press. I heard the commissioner one time say the press rushed in when the buses came forward. I don't know it was testimony today but. But it strikes me as the 80 people rushing forward can look like somebody is rushing a bus. So I think you have to have some sort of guidelines and control and I don't think you bar the

press I think you have to work out a pooling arrangement where they can get their information and go forward in that regard I don't want to stop them from from reporting the situation and all of that says but I do want them to understand that there's a physical presence problem which can contribute to public safety and perhaps a puling or something like that. Polling seems to be you know if you're going to have 80 people if you only got five you don't have to pool. I want you have to be realistic about this but if you really have that many people I think you have to pull you up. The final 13 witnesses to testify before the civil rights commission comprised the open session people not subpoenaed but who requested to tell their story of school desegregation in Boston. The commission chairman Arthur Fleming allowed each witness a five minute platform before the gavel came down. First up was former school committee member Joseph Lee who served on the board between one thousand thirty six and one thousand seventy two and was chairman for three terms. I served on the Boston committee for 20 years. Not all

in the bunch but spread out. Starting in 1938. Getting through in January 1972 and I found this 10 years before me. Same name as my SO and known as a founder with America the American figure. I admit I'm prejudiced in this case. I was fond of the chimes at the chow street African Methodist Episcopal Church and I grew up on the edge of the negro section of Boston and indeed my negro folks which is just beyond those tall buildings and I now live in the same in the middle where the negroes that period with the negro folks had lived and only two houses away from the present negro museum. Originally a church and from the first school in America built by negroes with Negro men exclusively the Negro children. And I'm my prejudices increased by the fact that my uncle should see my great great uncle was the leading abolitionist of the last century. How much money was taken soon who smashed in the door of the jail. Free the

fugitive slave Anthony Burns. And who then conspired with John Brown to start an insurrection of slaves in the south and hapless ferry and then his commission by custom Lincoln as the colonel of the first all black regiment in America by which is work is now a classic and considered the foremost hymn of praise to the negro soldier. So I am a little prejudiced in favor of the negro Fellow citizens. I want to correct about two things if they can get them in in the time allotted. Should be no claim there's equality in the treatment of the races in the Boston schools that ended in June in 12 years ago exactly in June of 1963 when the NAACP came before us they asked for 10 improvements for Negro Education in the classroom and we voted all 10. The expense has been enormous. We paid 50 percent more per negro child than her white child in the Boston schools. It wasn't just the

expense. This favoritism for the negro youngster. And it was a well-deserved favorite favoritism voted but voted unanimously by all of us but we gave seven eight and nine tenths of our time to these pardons in the face of the most terrific turmoil and racial snobs in the suburbs whose voices of Boston and New fumed and spouted more and more every time we did more and more often in the Boston school system has been turned around and built over in the image of the negro child. And then my foolish young cousin Eddie and me Richardson who was then Commissioner of Health Education and Welfare rolled and said let's have more equality in Boston instead of coming here to learn about civil rights himself. I finally rolled back I said. If you say anything more like that we'll take you at your word. We'll reduce the negro to getting no more about attention no more

about personnel know more about finances than the white youngster gets. And what's more we treat him like an equal in the classroom. We make him toe the mag like the white kid he won't excuse and pamper an endo. Now if you want to keep out of the talk I said if you're young you'll certainly have your way that's a promise. But powers higher than myself then walked him away to some other cabinet post and when his mischief still persists. But let it be now in the school committee has to be discriminated and it stands in dollars and cents it stands in the record in favor of the negro child who certainly needed a boost and God bless the school committee. The second main point I want to make is that anybody who says the Boston schools are segregated will have segregation de facto otherwise is outing a lie so viable that it will smiths with this honor of his own mouth

so I told you the negro folks lived over here had 100 years and more beyond those buildings there. And then up there I want to call in the early 19th hundred standing about the time of the end of World War 1. They moved to the fashionable part of the city for the Prince of Wales had been entertained the south then you know sort of walks free. Sorry Mandalay But if you could you can call that joining the Negro people are anybody else with other people and they're welcome into the watch to schools in the south and schools and they're being joined together with the pupils there if you can call joining segregation idiocy has reached a new depth and this city has to live. Thank you very much. Thanks Ari that if you have additional written comments if you will give them to the attorney will be very glad to include them in the record. Or

if you want to give him or allow you some additional comment he'll make a note of it so that it is included in the hearing. Thank you very much. Counsel will call the next watches. Mr Clay Smothers Thank you. Stay. Right here where that matters to which you are touched by. I think you probably heard my announcement on the five minute rule. Thank you. Introduce a gentle with you for the record. Well Mr. Jerome Riley Council No he's not. OK write it. Proceed in any way you see fit.

OK Mr. Chairman ladies and gentleman I name is Clay Smothers I'm administrator of Scientology industrial training school of Malakoff Texas located in Harrison County Texas. St. Paul is a nonprofit non-denominational predominately black private institution for extremely disadvantaged children. I'm also host of the clay Smothers reporter program of news analysis broadcast from WOR Radio in Dallas. Additionally I'm secretary treasurer treasurer of three states Pearl Harbor Bridgeview and deepwater Bay the water bay by the way is an All Black Lake resort community developed about the Smothers family unplanned as a black community. I'm appearing today before the commission and hopes of contributing to a fact finding mission here in Boston and may offer these facts for inclusion in the record. It's a fact that there are numerous black and Busters in the nation including Boston. It's a fact that there has been very little and in many areas of the country

no leadership for this segment of blacks. The fact is ladies and gentlemen these blacks have remained silent because it's embarrassing to take on the strong civil rights leadership in their communities. And they have also remained silent out of fear of the extreme radical militant leadership in their communities. My own experience can serve as facts in any case since I have this rare opportunity to speak on behalf of the other side the anti Busters allow me to express my views on busing in Boston and busing in any other part of the country that was designed to promote integration. I think it's good to integrate. I think it's much better to educate and is it not a proven fact that integration through busing is harmful and most assuredly unrewarding educationally.

There are those of us who are truly truly proud of our racial heritage and we believe to seek an education in communities other than our own is a cop out. A cop out that degrades us. A cop out that discredits us as black people in general and black leaders in particular. Some have proclaimed and you have heard and documented their prop proclamations that black communities are not provided with the resources with which to develop the institutions. If this is true and I'm doubtful why hasn't the black leadership along with this commission and others recommended and subsequently demanded that these resources be provided instead blacks are being ordered to travel by bus to these so-called resources. And whites are being ordered to travel by bus away from these so-called resources. And I'm willing to guarantee that blacks can get these resources and anything else they

desire merely for the asking ladies and gentlemen is popular to be black. In other words of black schools are inadequately financed. If it's true that the Boston School Committee has turned a deaf ear to the needs of black students why can't we deal with these problems. Paid a visit to South Boston yesterday and the heart being middle school in South Boston I wouldn't dare send my black kid it to decrypt it. Improper ventilation and is not conducive to a good education. It is important that we address ourselves to these problems receive and utilize these resources however in haste because to develop our own institutions we must do that because this is the beginning point where we learn to develop our own financial institutions our banks insurance companies automobile dealerships. The question now can predominately black institutions provide an education for quality or for

children. If this commission would be interested I would like to provide you provide this fact finding expedition of yours. The names and addresses and telephone numbers of men and women who are products of St. Paul industrial training school for which I provide the leadership. St. Paul was founded 50 years ago and we invite you to evaluate us through our products. HOLMES A Junior High School in Dallas. Audio of a quality public facility. Its black principal Professor Lee will have nothing less. He has generated peripheral interest. He has helped create in youngsters a hunger thirst for learning. He insists upon excellence but excellent performance from his staff. He is a strict disciplinarian and this ladies and gentlemen is what a good education is all about. Mr. Chairman Mr. Chairman since this commission has not had before it a black and I have two minutes more of this testimony. Would you make an exception and let me finish.

I'm sorry but I would not be heard on. Six cents Mr. Let me put it down to Mr. Mr. Rogers. I want to be as fair as I can do all who are on this list. We will be very happy to include the rest of your statement in our public hearing. Mr. Chairman I started making it. Let me have that on let me ask you in this context. I have I am somewhat familiar with all the written material with much of the written material of this commission. And in my view it's preparing people for busing. Since the busing philosophy has never been expressed publicly then may I finish. Well I can assure you that it will be a part of this public record. I can assure you as one commissioner that I will read the rest of your

statement. But I do feel that I must be fair to each one. Thank you. Thank you for being here let me say we have been imparting to you as a commission that a good education is not a transportable commodity. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks constable call the next one Mr. Don Gardner If you would stand please. Raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth of matters to which you are touched by. Thank you nice to have you with us. You might proceed for five minutes of anyway. Thank you. My name is Donald W. Gardner Jr. I reside at 15 Adams road in Marblehead Massachusetts. The town that a school committee man Kerrigan mentioned yesterday in his testimony. After 11 years in higher education and secondary education as a teacher and administrator. One unsuccessful run for public office and

three years in urban redevelopment here in Boston. I am currently unemployed. I want to express the appreciation to the Commission for coming to Boston this week for your time and patience and for holding aloft for all America the moral imperative of desegregation. I realize the main focus of your investigation is on phase one and phase two within the city of Boston so I particularly want to thank you for the opportunity to testify as the founder of the suburban coalition a new organization which believes in the inner interdependence of city and suburbs which is dedicated to the task of opening up the suburbs to all people and to a more equitable sharing and access to housing education and job resources in the greater Boston area. We believe that racial isolation in the suburbs is just as harmful to America as

segregation. Our concerns I believe are in harmony with the goals of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. And we appreciate the great amount of investigation you've already done and on this aspect of the issue. Our first it effort as a suburban coalition was to support the spraying the bill already referred to in these hearings sponsored by Representative Michael Daley and school committee person Kathleen Sullivan which would have mandated suburban communities to accept a modest number estimated 4000 students from Boston both black and white to fill some of their vacant seats. In this era of declining enrollment as you have been told this bill met a resounding defeat in the General Court with opposition to it from a strange alliance of anti bussing groups. The NAACP and suburban educators. We will continue to work for a metropolitan solution to desegregation for we feel it is the only way to achieve

a more fair and complete integration involving the whole metropolitan area rather than to confine desegregation to the city limits of Boston. Many have said they agree with this position but do not want to confuse or undermine desegregation efforts in Boston under phase one phase two. By interjecting the metropolitan issue. I understand this reluctance and share with them a strong support for a court order desegregation in Boston now but feel that work should continue on developing programs and legislation for greater suburban involvement in desegregation in the next year or two and for the long haul as Dr. Robert Coles author and a resident of the suburb of Concord put it last fall in an interview quote people in the suburbs should share it with bussing people in the suburbs are protected behind a wall that is around Boston. It is not fair and I

don't think that I should be let off the hook. I've been a volunteer with one program I think has been effective in serving some of 300 students from City and Suburban junior and senior high schools call political discovery sponsored by the echo group. It's designed to expose about 50 kids a week to a an expiration of 50 federal state city resources in the government center. They had the opportunity to talk with a whole range of public officials and lobbying groups and the media and including almost every person that you've had on your on your witness group this week it seems this project is funded as a magnet program and a chapter 636 of the racial imbalance amendments in 1974. Just one example Vontae Pro which can be affected should be continue. Thank you. Will you quote the complete statement and the right to counsel.

Next what Albert lising or Thomas Weston. Both. You'll both stay and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth of matters to which you are testified. Like I just gave you the life of your will be very happy to recognize you. Thank you. My name is Ally. I live at 11. You south ave Jamaica Plain. I'm a member of the Boston steering committee of the International Committee Against Racism and we've organized a Freedom Summer anti-racism project in this city. The purpose of this project is to bring hundreds of anti-racist volunteers from all over the United States to help local Boston residents upgrade the schools and implement the desegregation order. We intend to end the summer with strong integrated Boston parents groups and card chapters to welcome bust students and to carry on the struggle to upgrade the

schools. The only way the schools can be upgraded is through multiracial unity this unity is our basic purpose. I personally as a teacher of Boston State College have taught remedial mathematics to graduates of the Boston schools and I know that all the schools must be upgraded enormously. Some of my students for example from South Boston High in other schools can't even do long division. This is criminal. Our program for the schools is to build 25 new schools in poor and working class areas now to upgrade all the schools starting with those in black and poor areas to hire a $200 a week. Five thousand unemployed people to work on this upgrading plan to double the number of janitors for it to expand the bilingual programs to public officials who have made inflammatory statements for conspiracy to violate civil rights of school children. To end the practice of having segregated parents meetings on the basis of race which are now taking place at some

schools and to form integrated mass. Parents groups for the purposes of upgrading the schools and trying to prevent violence in the fall. Now certain public officials and influential people have claimed that bussing won't work anywhere. The black areas are unsafe areas that blacks are getting everything. The problem with the schools is maybe the students in them. We feel these statements are wrong and racist and that they have led to an atmosphere in which physical violent attacks have occurred on Black Spanish speaking and white people who have resisted the racist movement in the city. We feel that the statements against forced bussing are here proper hypocrisy because the very people who are found in court to have intentionally segregated the schools are now after eight or nine year period claiming that the only remedy to this is wrong. Now we ourselves have been victims of such physical attacks at various times in the process of distributing our literature in the city.

In the process of talking to residents of south Boston Jamaica Plain Roxbury and Hyde Park Dorchester about our program we feel that the number of people who've attacked us is very small but we feel that the Boston police have not done their job in preventing these attacks. And we do not intend to be intimidated by such attacks. Are members of found the vast majority of people that we've spoken to in the commission particularly even within South Boston. Many people that we've discussed these things with have opposed to the racist movement have been in favor of unity but between black and white people. That we feel that the basic problems in the city are our poor schools and unemployment 30 percent of the graduates of South Boston High can't get jobs now it's even worse in Roxbury. We feel that we need multiracial unity of all of the groups in the city to fight for more jobs and to fight for better schools that politicians who attack desegregation should be indicted for violating the civil rights

of school children. And we wonder why such indictments have not been brought. I would like to ask the commission if the commission is willing to accept the evidence including pictures about some of the people who have attacked us and to convey the evidence to the proper authorities. These are unarmed attacks. They've been violent attacks. We have reason to believe the people who've attacked us are members of roar and we do have pictures to prove this. What do you want. Well they have about 30 seconds if you desire to present the evidence to come they will consider and make recommendations to us. Thank you. And in conclusion we say that Louise day Hicks and John Kerrigan by their public pronouncements and statements have organized this violence inflamed it and that they should pay for it.

Council will call an actual witness. Lawrence you'll use word farm to tell the whole truth of matters to which you are toast. Like everywhere there's now five Thank you. Let me begin by saying I am opposed to forced busing. I am a Boston parent of nine children. The first five boys ages 13 to 18. Four oldest boys were forcibly bussed in phase 1 results of fate forced busing and all its ramifications had made racists out of my older children in no way. Well according to forcibly bus the rest of the children interfere with my family life or if it does come September we will be gone like the wind. You might well ask what has created this attitude it was the dual standards of justice imposed by the federal court and the

administrative spree sieges so complex as to bog down the system which is typical of anything federal. The year 1984 arrived in Boston 10 years early. If you don't believe that look at the security forces in and around this building the federal track record in the major cities of the United States have created so by ghettos because of white flight to the suburbs. This has resulted in minority cities with high crime high unemployment and excessive welfare. I ask you is this to be the legacy of the awful legacy of the federal courts the very survival of the city of Boston as a viable entity. Is it state. Massachusetts is broke. Is Boston to follow New York City. Phase two will accomplish these because of the fiscal recklessness of forced busing and its deleterious side effects. This is only exceeded by the degradation in education that is accompanied it in phase one. The low income a large family economically locked into the city.

We cannot afford private schools which many have been are preparing to send their children to to flee. We will suffer a financial loss but when the battle is lost and it is a battle we will flee to protect our children. These will be the very people that the minorities need to make civil rights work. What will happen in September. Let remind let me remind you that freedom was Bonnie you were not about to let it die. Yeah I assure you Boston will fight the last battle. The open session at which 13 citizens gave testimony concluded the US Civil Rights Commission hearings on school desegregation held five days this week in Boston. Now the staff returns to Washington D.C. to prepare a summary of its findings and recommendations for achieving racial balance in the city's schools of Boston when they reopen next September. From Boston I'm Frankfurt's Morris.