NOVA; To the Moon; Interview with Fred Haise, Jr., NASA astronaut during the Apollo 13 mission, part 2 of 3

one second and how excited were you guys for you and Jim about getting on the moon and really doing good geology? Well we were very excited because it was when I call it exclusively the second EVA was to be just that they feel the jobs you exercise in sampling up a ray or up the order of the rays to the cone crater feature for the landing site we were going to then for our tomorrow. And we had a large investment obviously in training not just in the field training I described and we had a train X as in a Y in a number of places prior to submission in real so two settings to work that kind of a field exercise I mentioned with the real back room people participating over the hill and by radio and again critiquing getting critiqued by the local area expert that followed us around and took notes for each of those but we also did a lot of hard work and suited exercises we had a fake lunar field that

had been built out back of the training complex at Kennedy Space Center and it had a few scattered moon look and rocks but it really was Florida sand for the most part but there we worked out the nitty gritties of the suited type procedures and used the real equipment we would be using in suits you still using the real cameras though to a breastplate and doing the same fake sampling protocol using the cameras but all the skits that we had on our follow on a cuff checklicks for the real mission and the real after real landing so we had it we had a great investment I understand you guys even paid for your own field trip at one point that one we paid for the food and stuff that was the first one where we come in that back again okay yeah go ahead now and on the first field trip we we shared expenses for the for the food as when it's camp out mode that we had in the aerocop

mountains and in lease over in the auspices of his assistant another a PhD at furnished a truck and in went back and forth occasionally that filled the water jugs up okay let's talk about was was NASA reluctant to throw full support behind this stuff is that why you work oh no no that was that was not it I did it all you just take it off on your own to work yeah okay now take me back to 13 you're getting ready to go do you ever feel anything like any there was there any ominous kind of premonitions about this whole flight coming up anything struck you as boys no the no the only thing that was somewhat upsetting was that they change out of the crew with just a few days to go and I always make sure people are saying it's not in the context of a safety concern or not being able to carry

off the mission because our whole approach in those days was to have a prime and backup crew that were equally trained in fact I was a backup crew three times and if you looked at the records I think you'll find I got a few more training hours than the prime crew and because they they would get drug off to do press conferences or other other things that we didn't have to fiddle with as a backup crew and you know we'd be in the simulators even those days so it was so it was just the emotionalism of in a way unfairness to both parties I was at that late date Jack couldn't have arranged to have all the people he might have wondered at this once in a lifetime event and conversely a lot of people were coming to see Ken Manningley fly who had irrevocable airline tickets and paid for motel rooms and and now Ken was not going to be the one to fly when did you know what did you first know there was trouble in the spacecraft tell me take me back when did I first know

it was trouble well instantly I was in the lunar module still cleaning up after our TV show at the time of the explosion and it was a very obvious abnormal combination of shock and initial felt motion as well as sound reverberating through the hull that it was it was nothing in a normal system fashion of any kind I had ever experienced and you could actually flightly behind that in the tunnel area where Jim was or at the time you could hear Tim canning a crinkling motion of the metal structure in the tunnel to the two vehicles cavorting in a different way so it was actually stressing the material in that juncture in the tunnel area so now I knew it was something big immediately but I had no idea I had no idea of course what it was what could see you mind at a time like that well my ghost of my mind was to

try to fix psych out and figure out the problem and very shortly Jim had already gotten up in the center seat and got his head set on and I got back into my normal position was on the right side which is where the problem was really in a cryogenic system because what I had was the communication system environmental cryogenic in the electrical system on that side and it was really the first look was confusing in a similar way to the ground we had too many warning lights on we had a large number of warning lights in multiple different systems which was not not anything of a manifestation for any single failure and we we always had a philosophy in a way we trained with failures imparted in training we should only get one at a time that maybe it was expression I've used as I guess we really thought that God would not be so unkind as to give

us more than one failure at one time and one system well here we had failures and indicating in four or five systems all at same time and now so that's why I say a state of confusion I think for for a little longer time with the ground because we did not communicate well that shock we felt in the sounds and that I think the ground for a little while didn't think it was a real problem for some minutes because again we just didn't communicate what we realized and you could look out the window immediately and it was the debris field around us as I looked out the window so I knew something they let go again I didn't know quite what with one scan of the instrument panel though it was clear we lost one oxygen tank that in itself is not like threatening so the feeling that that instant went to a very sick feeling in my stomach because I knew it was an abort that we lost a mission so that was it went from this confusion state to

this extreme disappointment what was the low point that I know you got sick but was there a low point that was there ever a point where you felt like I don't know if we're going to be able to pull this off no I'd say in that respect the lowest point was probably the first time I got a chance to breathe and stop either psyching out the problem with the mission control and command module are then going through the very rapid power up in the limb that was this we're so busy what much time to think but we did get the pause point after that we executed the first decent engine burned put us back on the path home that that I was I was concerned then because I knew there was no no plan B there was not a for the situation we're in we're now the the mothership command module which was never to be powered down was now dead it was never to be powered down in flight

and I figured we could stretch the limb I had worked out of my own my power down it didn't go as low as the ground but it got me to where I knew the water consumables left I thought would would stretch before key equipment died from the day died copied when limb five on Apollo 11 we turned off the water valve and left it in orbit and watched went what components died at what time in the first critical element failed at about eight hours after we shut off the water valve so but I just knew that there was there was no quick there was no answer that there was no book someone was going to go get off the shelf and say here's what we're going to do to take care of this situation that we're in I'll have to say I had I had a lot of confidence that the people on the ground would be turning over any stone that could be turned over anywhere in the world to be able to work it out so you know I'll say that behind that thought was that thought of comfort

that maybe it may be in a way during that hope period maybe that made us seem not human enough as I was told and why they added some of the stuff in the movie we didn't come across as human enough in the real air to ground to say that again now the the manifestation of the the problem was an explosion in an oxygen tank and and that caused a lot of false warnings really with the number of the lights we had on where valves had been moved to other positions closed and then that executed low pressure low pressure light and we had we had thought of certainly explosions as a failure mode and FMEAs that had been done on all the systems but a fire call from the

most parts explosions dealing certainly with rocket engines were thought to be catastrophic if they happen so we wouldn't have been in the situation we found ourselves where we had had an explosion and we're still we're still alive we're still sitting there breathing and so that that was also part of this unusual situation and why there was no book on the shelf one could go to that had all the answers well that the the burn that was put into the plan as we passed the moon Parasynthin plus two hours was one that was to change air trajectory that would cut I think if I recall 10 hours off our return time and that was very as very crucial because we were close on the margins I think particularly in water next was electrical power and that that gave us call it reasonable margins in case quote anything else didn't quite go right so it was critical

in that sense to give us good feeling about we had enough left to get there now as you were going around the backside of the moon you and you and you and you and Jack you and Jack pulled back hammers right well yeah we had two or three cameras out the color and black and white the passable ads and ascending 16 millimeter battery part that we were what was going on when you passed around the dark set backside of the moon well we had an opportunity of course for Jack and I the first time in our lives and it's turned out the last to observe the moon's features we had gotten out the cameras and had them loaded with film both black and white and color and we're looking at observing and shooting a lot of pictures because like I said we didn't

know if we'd get back or have another chance and there was a burn coming up I think Jim just wanted to be a well ahead of the burn was a doc what's called a doc dips burn with a decent propulsion system using the computer for automated control in fact first two maneuvers we did were using the computer it was still powered up and it was it had been executed on what we'd done one earlier the first burn out was a short one and it had been executed on Apollo 9 in fact and it's a test during that flight in Earth orbit what was Jim's reaction do you guys take the pictures well I think he wanted us to assist at one point and he wanted to be well ahead of the timeline to make sure we didn't miss the burn and obviously it was it was a burn you didn't want to miss and get behind on the time he wanted to be right up to the call it the last few steps in the procedure and then sit there and that's what happened we got done well ahead of time and

then we just had to sit till the time counted down but that definitely ready to make the burn what about what about the pictures you did take I we saw two major features Cikoski and the sea of Moscow which had had been named I guess in my earlier venture up for the Russians had made around the backside and taken pictures and as I understand they turned out pretty well in fact for those particular features in just a trajectory and an orbit we were on were some of the better pictures taken during the program of those features describe for me I want to know about your physical condition but describe for me how bad it got in the in the in the spacecraft give me a physical description of it well it it got got cold and damp I guess is and how cold and how damp we didn't have a temperature gauge it froze the

water tanks in the command module they were frozen when it was taken on board ship and we we had we wanted to start over again well it got very cold and very very damp and of course we had to sit in it for a number of days it probably took most of the first day after we powered down to chill on down didn't have a temperature gauge reading in the lunar module but the water tanks were found frozen in the mothership command module when it was retrieved on board the carrier and we were blowing frosty air out of our out of our mouths and the real problem was my guess is it was somewhere between 35 and 40 degrees and we didn't have adequate clothing we did put on every set of underwear we had it was cotton underwear long underwear but short sleeve and Jim and I

put on our lunar boots even that we were to let to use when we landed and walked on the moon that helped some but the material of the clothing otherwise was because of the fire earlier in the program had been changed to a beta cloth material coated with Teflon more for the fire retardant of features but that stuff kind of assumed the temperature of the environment that Teflon particularly what happened to you during this about day and a half out from entry I started having a chosen fever much I'd describe it much like if you have a bad flu and some pain in urinating so I'm going to turn out what I had evolved and that pretty much confirmed it was a lower urinary track infection and it was nothing that made me incapacitated I couldn't function

that we just added to the uncomfortableness of the situation and some people ask why didn't we put on our spacesuits it's an often question and you have to remember we tied up one set of hoses in the limb which was only built to handle two people anyway with the cartridge to cleanse the CO2 carbon dioxide out of the air so we only had one set of hoses and the suits you have to remember a rubber land so if you put on a suit and shipped it up and you did not have cooling air flowing you would perspire even at that temperature in certain extremities and any we worried about now you crawl out of the suit to go to the bathroom or something you'd really freeze was there a point when you thought in the latter days maybe this isn't just going to work out no I know I know once we got a plan and got a picture of the plan I never worried about it again

I said I'll worry if the next thing that has to happen in the plan doesn't happen or something else goes wrong for instance with the limb then I'd start worrying again but we clicked along and every step in this evolving plan was working so in fact it was an incredible engineering fee described to me how incredible it was that you guys got back well if you want to talk I guess to talk to engineering I'd have to say the two things were what and how we used the vehicles and how they performed literally the lunar module was never designed to an equipment design operate at the temperatures we took it down to as I said in the cabin 35 to 40 degrees it's no telling what the temperature was in the peripheral areas out from the crew cabin

and likewise the command module was never and in this design was never meant to be shut down in flight and frozen literally even more so than the lunar module of course the limb performed over this long fort a period perfectly the command module powered back up miraculously we did an alignment with a very delicate inertial unit that was never supposed to have heat a power off and ended up was I understand with the second most accurate touchdown of the Apollo program so yes I you know maybe some people would say the vehicles maybe were over designed but I'm sure happy they were and they did it how did you feel when Aquarius separated and floated away well I you know it was one of these things where I felt a little sad to have

to leave the vehicle I hope that it get back to be again be set in some museum because it certainly had a well-deserved recognition of a mission above and beyond and I knew obviously it wasn't going to get back it couldn't make it through an entry at the regret of obviously not walking on the moon did you regret the fact that you didn't get to do that geology but as you as you landed and got back to earth you got obviously glad to be there what was well that there was yeah there was a great still continuing feeling of disappointment even somewhat selfishly you might say since I I did return I did get back from this mission but I think it's it's human nature you could not do the the preparation and the training and having the investment and accomplishing what

was in the flight plan and and accomplish so little relatively what the mission had planned so there was that kind of a stigma for me that you know we just we didn't we didn't get it done and maybe it wasn't our fault but we nevertheless we didn't some of it was a little taken taken away from me because not too long after that I had a a new assignment as the backup commander on Apollo 16 and and at that particular period of time with Jerry Carr and Bill Pogue were assigned as the other crewman there was missions went to Apollo 19 so if you looked at the three flight rotation that normally was held I would have gotten a chance to return as the commander of Apollo 19 which at that point in time would have been the last mission of the program but we weren't into that training very long a few months and 18 and 19 were canceled so there was kind of another

period of a second point of disappointment do you feel that it was all stopped too soon okay roll that okay one more one more