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I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Kalak Rossley show. One of Mayor Menino as master plans is to take on tobacco if he has his way public housing residents could be singing their swan song to cigs and studies within four years he wants public housing units to be smoke free. This ban has some residents fuming while others welcome the would be relief from the health hazard that comes from secondhand smoke such as asthma. As this plays out the city and citizens could be butting heads on how to navigate the fine line of promoting public health without violating civil rights. Will this ban take off or will the mayor's plans go up in smoke. Well top of the hour with a look at this year's Oscar nominations. Up next on the callee Crossley Show from smoke signals to the silver screen. First the news. From NPR News in Washington on CORBA Coleman earlier today Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told owners of recalled Toyotas to keep them in the garage until they get fixed.

Stop driving it take it the Toyota dealer because they believe they have the fix for now. The hood is hastily correcting what he said. The Hood says he misspoke when saying earlier owner should not drive. Instead he says they should take their cars to Toyota dealerships for repairs and advice. Toyota is recalling more than 5 million vehicles because of two separate problems with gas pedals. Well that said the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will investigate electronic systems on the Toyota fix. It's up to us to tell them if we think. That their solution is is not correct and and now we're will be doing investigations and studying the electronic part of it. The hood also plans to call Toyota president Akio Toyoda about the matter. The Nigerian man accused of trying to bomb a U.S. jetliner on Christmas Day is again talking with investigators. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab has revealed names and locations of certain al Qaeda training centers he reportedly visited on a trip to Yemen

when he was first detained Abdulmutallab answered questions. But he was warned his statements could be used against him legally and he stopped cooperating. The FBI then brought in members of a family to speak with him. They persuaded him to cooperate again. The petroleum and trucking industries are asking a federal court to block California's landmark measure for cleaner burning low carbon fuels. Bob Hensley of Capital Public Radio reports. The lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court in Fresno by the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association and the American Trucking Association. It's the third suit filed in the past two months challenging the regulations which were adopted last year. Beginning in 2011 the standard requires refiners companies that blend feal and distributors to gradually increase the cleanliness of the fuel they sell in California. The plaintiffs charge state regulators violated federal measures regarding interstate commerce and adopted rules the favor by a field produced in California. The groups also contend the new regulations

will drive up the cost of fuel for consumers. An executive with the California Air Resources Board refuted the plaintiff's contention that fuel prices would increase and call the legal action shameful. For NPR News I'm Bob Hensley in Modesto California. Illinois voters chose party candidates in the state's primary election. Yesterday incumbent Illinois Governor Pat Quinn is leading his Democratic opponent Dan Hines slightly. Heinz will not concede the race. As for Republican gubernatorial candidates there is a three way tie. This is among state senators Bill Brady and Kirk Dillard and businessman Andy McKenna. On Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial Average is down 31 points at ten thousand two hundred sixty four. The Nasdaq is down three points it's at twenty one eighty seven. You're listening to NPR News. A Moroccan man has been denied French citizenship when it became known he forced his French wife to wear a full length face covering veil in public. From Paris Eleanor Beardsley reports it's the latest incident stoking a debate in France over religious expression women's

rights and national identity. The French immigration minister says the man's behavior and attitudes go against the country's principles of secularism and women's rights. Prime Minister of hos wife Sheila spoke about the case on French radio. You know I mean if this woman leaders in the total separation of the sexes including his own sons and daughters at home and he refuses to shake women's hands there's just no place for that in France he only favors a complete ban on the face covering veil known as the burka or neat cab in public. The debate has been raging in France for the last six months. A French parliamentary commission recommends banning the veil only in public buildings and transport. The Catholic Archbishop of Paris opposes any ban. He says it would lead to the infringement of Christians rights in majority Muslim countries. For NPR News I'm Eleanor Beardsley in Paris. The International Criminal Court will reconsider a genocide charge against Sudan's President Omar al-Bashir. A lower court ruling last year declared the judges erred when they did not indict al-Bashir on the genocide charge he's already facing accusations of crimes

against humanity for his actions in Darfur the residents there have been murdered tortured raped and forced to flee. Western countries say Iran is stalling with its latest offer to send uranium out of the country for enrichment. It's similar to what the United Nations is already demanding Iran do. U.S. State Department says Iran should just accept the original plan advanced by the United Nations. I'm CORBA Coleman NPR News. Support for NPR comes from the John D and Catherine team across the foundation committed to building a more just verdant and peaceful world. More information at Mac found dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show to lend your voice to the conversation give us a call. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1. Eighty nine seventy. Mayor Menino is taking on tobacco one tenement at a time. By this summer smoking could be banned in more than

100 new public housing units. Is this a public health initiative or a smoke and mirrors assault on the civil rights of the city's poor. To talk through this ban and what it means for public health and the private lives of public housing residents we're joined by Mayor Menino and a roundtable of experts and advocates. Doug Brooky is Professor of Public Health and Community Medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine. Chris Banton is a lawyer with the Public Health Advocacy Institute at Northeastern University. Maiffret is the executive director of the committee for a Boston public housing. And Edna Roscoe is a director of programs for the committee for Boston public housing. What is your take on the smoking ban does it protect the health of nonsmokers. Is it a form of discrimination. If you're living in public housing a smoker or nonsmoker we want to hear from you. Give us a call 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. Welcome to you all. Mayor Menino thank you for joining us where we can call you and the other people so I don't know. I was on a panel.

Well just briefly. You get your own moment on stage. I want to start with you and ask why did you decide to suggest that there that there be a ban on cigarette smoking in public housing. Well I've been always the advocate advocate for banning smoking in villains that I could just add like workplaces restaurants and also listen to from some of the tenets in our public housing Washington Beecher joint renovation going on right in the eye. We got support from the health resource and action committee and guidance from the Boston Public Health Commission and we're going to have one hundred fifty one washing be households carry out no smoking and their units a 5 percent response stated desire to live in smoke free environment. Frank on the hill we have 14 and 14 spoke we understand now and also much broadly of four units Billman voluntarily went smokefree over a year ago a year ago. There's a national trend that we have not just in Boston throughout the country. I don't want some of

those tenants and their helmets. Tobacco should be the smoke and you know that secondhand sense of Akko just as bad as smoking a cigarette. Now did the stats about asthma in children have anything to do with one of the reasons that you want to ban smoking. No question about a call with a high number of people who have asthma and in the public housing I was always that concerned about the young people even the adults who live there but the asthma is prevalent in public housing many different factors on that but that's one of the reasons but I really like a clean environment for people to live in and just because you live in public housing doesn't have to mean you're a second class citizen. I want to have those folks live in public housing especially all the resource report into it to live in a smoke free environment and environment they could really breathe clean air and raise their families and now how do you respond to people who say this is there's something of a class dynamic here that these are poor people who can't make a decision as others may be able to about whether or not they want to smoke. Well they could

choose a smoking unit they want and it's up to them I don't have to go into a nonsmoking unit but that's a choice they make and what we find in public housing today. Is that more and more people want to go into nonsmoking units than ever before so we're going to accommodate that. That group of individuals in the public college and that's something I was struck by a fact that was in an article that says it costs thirty six hundred dollars for a clean a smoker's public housing unit between tenants. That's a lot of money. It sure is it's a lot of money and I think it's six hundred fifty dollars for a nonsmoking unit it's a lot of money at that time they can seen off the walls and into the different deposits of the unit and thanks a lot of work and it's a cost factor but to me it's a public health issue and I as may have to continue to buy from public health I mean when I banned smoking in the city of Boston eight years ago we did that on Valentine's Day at Doyle's in dacha in

the Jamaica Plain I said if I get where vision Doyle's in Jamaica. Plan to get away with any place in the city and you know people said it's going to kill a business. It was much better for the business because we go home now we could go to Doyle's you know go home with the stench on your clothes and you walk in the house you your wife your girlfriend or maybe they're waiting for you. You know they smell we have been. It just stays with you. That's secondhand smoke. I'm a waiter in a restaurant I asked to inhale that smoke right. And there that's bad for your health and family's candidacy and then America to even some of those tobacco states down South they have been smoking in restaurants also so we know it's a bad habit I'm trying to get into public housing. Also I'm not forcing people to live in the nonsmoking units. I'm to create more more nonsmoking units so maybe some day they won't have won't be a place of choice. Will have to be a place for you. You must live in right now is a place that you have choice. Thank you very much Mayor Menino for joining us. Thank you. OK so

now Professor Chris Benson may Fripp an ethnic or usko welcome again. And I wanted to get first your response to Mayor Menino his comments. CHRIS Well I agree with the mare into back o control. We've done a great job in Massachusetts of tackling the smoking rates and reducing them. But the big problem that remains one of the big problems is health disparities. We've done a really poor job of reaching out to certain populations and they still have very high smoking rates. So with this type of strategy we normalize smoking we create environments where people want to quit and which is sation services which many of the residents in public housing have a right to they can quit. So it's about reaching a population that we haven't yet reached that we don't want to ignore that we want to improve their health.

Maiffret are residents interested in having this ban put in place. I think that a large number of our residents are extremely interested. As we've done you know surveys with residents to find their thoughts on the issue. Residents who say that this should not be any smoking in public housing because of the impact that it has on on children. And we also hear from those residents who say I have a right to smoke. This is my home. I'm not going anywhere. And and you can't take this. You know you can't take this away from me. And so for us the biggest piece of this is giving everyone a voice at the table. And so if it is something that is that is coming down the line we want to say that if this policy is going to impact your life then you have a right to have a say so on the on the way in which the policy is framed and the way in which the timeline that is implemented. So we

just want to make sure that the age resit participation that that the policy is very transparent that it's a very public process and that everyone will sort of have this say before there is any any final language to what is actually going to govern the policy and. We're in for a big piece too is to make sure that there is an avenue for young people to also have their day to say no to say as well. Well we have some voices from people who live in some of the housing units and I I thought it would might it might be interesting for us our listeners to hear what they have to say you know what they do now. They don't smoke in their apartments they go out and smoke in the hallway so everybody else has all the fumes coming in under the door. That's what I have to live with now and I don't smoke so I'm getting secondhand smoke anyway. But I mean to like if they're going to enforce it. To force people like you not to if you going to

basically if you go small you can't live here. Yeah. That's not right. But I mean and then again it does have some positive to it. It's basically trying to. Make people quit. Professor Berger I wonder if you could say speak to that if you're smoking and in the second hand smoke is going out of the door. The impact of that because there's been some suggestion for example this why don't we eliminate it on certain floors and would that not be a compromise. Yeah I think if you're going to limit effectively eliminate smoking and the exposure to secondhand smoke then you're really going to have to ban it in the building. The smoke doesn't respect the doors or the cracks you know the cracks on both of floors or the floors or whatever can travel through or if there's a ventilation system could be re circulated by that. It's not usually the case in public housing. So yeah I would say that that's true I also just want to second I think Mayor Menino is right. You know to be

concerned about the hazard of secondhand smoke and if I can just be a person who speaks to that. You know it's very clear that that this is a hazardous exposure both to adults and to children. Speaking of asthmatic children I think it's a risk factor for developing asthma as well as exacerbating as well. Well you did a study looking in some housing projects and found that there were elevated levels of asthma right. Yes when working with the committee for Boston public housing we did surveys in some of the public housing developments in Boston and found very high prevalence of asthma. And so for those children who already have asthma secondhand smoke is certainly a concern and so some kind of focus on how to protect children and nonsmokers in housing I think is sort of the new frontier in terms of secondhand smoke it's it's not in the restaurants but and how we're going to address that in people's homes I don't know. Clearly public housing there's more of an avenue to do that than in private housing. But exactly how it how it's done and to what

extent I think is is some of the question to what may said about the process I think is probably very important. No one's going to complain that there are some nonsmoking buildings or developments but as they become more and more then what happens to low income tenants who smoke and and what happens if they do they violate the rules and they do smoke in their apartments and. Also as mentioned earlier how available are these the station programs these are low income people. Are they free or are they linguistically and culturally adapted. Well let me ask you that are there smoking cessation programs that know you're on the committee for public housing. The group that we're working on we're currently looking at that what are the some of the resources and the committee the Boston Public Health Commission is actually part of that and has taken the initiative to look at what clinics are servicing smoking cessation. We realize that there's not enough smoking cessation program out there and that more funding as we look at this implementing those policies

and and as we're having our community meetings with tenants we realize that there is not enough and that we are in a what if to implement such a policy. We actually have to now look at. Looking at where we get the funding and hopefully when Mayor Menino be willing to put more funding into smoking cessation programs and give clinics more opportunity to deal with some of the liquid Skitt linguistic barriers that currently exists and so yeah. So it's part of the processes but we're also talking with tenants to say what kind of smoking cessation programs would you like us to employ because I would wonder if people even know that they exist. Do they do they know the bags of tenants do not know the exact same unless you bring it out with him and that has been as we have in the past two years when we have gone into homes and talked about tenants with smoking cessation programs and talk to them about some of that as my education we realised that not just learning about it just learning about it and we have to connect them. Chris you want to jump in on this you know theres utilisation is a big problem getting people to take advantage of a benefit they have now Mass Health

Massachusetts the Medicaid program has a very very generous smoking cessation program and includes nicotine replacement therapy and it includes other pharmacological interventions it includes counseling and what can people get access to it. I mean thats the problem. Getting access to it. And I'll point to one example in Brookline a HUD property went smokefree and did so in the space of six months. They brought in. Experts on sation to talk to residents in give them guidance on how to utilize the services and have access to them. Now I think in that situation there probably weren't as many language barriers that we're talking about in other parts of Boston. But I think you can agree language or no it is really hard to stop smoking and I have never been a smoker but I've watched my parents quit cold turkey. It's hard they say nicotine and cigarettes are more addictive than heroin. This is tough.

This is really tough but if that's what I'm going to jump in on this. And I just want to remind people who might not know that most smokers start smoking when they're teenagers and I think most all of us would agree that if we were stuck for the rest of our life with every decision we made when we were a teenager we might not be happy with that and smoking is one of those bad decisions that people sometimes make in their teen years and then they're addicted very much as we just said. And success would stop even with the station program. That the success rates are relatively modest they're not they're certainly not a hundred percent. And so I think that needs to be part of the mix when we're talking about this we want less people to smoke we want to protect children who are exposed to smoke or nonsmokers who are exposed but we also need to remember that it didn't drain thing when you were it's an it's a physiological addiction and it's very hard to overcome and we should and that should be part of the calculus of how we how we go forward and in addressing it. Well then for you would just have an immediate ban work or does it is it better if you start off with a nonsmoking unit and then people will move in they know that that's what they have to do.

I think some process process and gradual transition over time is certainly better than something very sudden and I think coupling it with with access maybe not just. Whether the smoking cessation programs exist but also providing access to linguistic Lee appropriate translation and all those sorts of things sort of need to be rolled out along with it probably. I have a question for you professor. Can you go if you go outside. You know this is what people did with you when smoking was banned in many other places to smoke. Is that still seeping into the buildings. If you let's say you know you everybody inside you cannot smoke but you're outside smoking. Well it's going to depend on the building. If you're on a loading dock and it's open all the way in then it's going to go in. You know the other thing about smoking outside is we all travel through these little clumps of smokers outside office buildings and so we're drilling in some smoke there as well. But I think you've got I think really the smoking at home is a serious issue and it's a difficult one to crack. There are there have been attempts at voluntary

programs but I think that's a that's a tough way to go. On the other hand you know I doubt we're ever going to ban smoking in everyone's household. So so what what are the ways we can move forward that that would reduce smoking at home and and also encourage people to quit smoking and get them into cessation programs if possible. Well the in market rate properties multi-unit dwellings condominiums and rental. Buildings these are private. These are private you know we are seeing a significant trend towards a smoke free environment so I think the from the business perspective the landlord and the condo trustees are seeing the economic advantage of it and the residents and landlords alike understand the health benefits of it so we're seeing this shift over the past few years and the mass tobacco control programs working in this area to help this along. But those people can make that choice themselves in conjunction with their neighbors that's right in what it means is

people in these residences have access to the no smoking people in public housing. Not yet. OK. We're going to continue this conversation in just a minute I'm Kalak Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. We're discussing a smoking ban on public housing with our roundtable of experts and advocates. Where do you come down on this debate. Is this a giant step for public health or a small small step back for civil rights. Are you a victim of secondhand smoke. Are you a smoker who feels discriminated against. Give us a call at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. We'll be back after this break. Stay with us. Support for WGBH comes from you. And from tech fusion dot com.

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support. Why why why eighty nine point seven because of new local programs like the Kelly Crossley Show. I think you need to speak to the fact that for so long the data came from men about women. Absolutely and you know we tend to forget that it was only in 1993 that it was really mandated that women and minorities be included in trials and gave guidelines around that that is not that long ago. We are the new. Eighty nine point seven. WGBH eighty nine point seven WGBH is your local connection to the world and a Cali chrome shop one of the brands made individual support. I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show we're discussing Mayor Menino s plan to ban smoking in public housing. We are John. Joined by Doug Brooky professor of Public Health

and Community Medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine. Chris Madsen a lawyer with the Public Health Advocacy Institute at Northeastern University May Fripp the executive director of the committee for Boston public housing and across co director of programs committee for Boston public housing. We want to hear your take on this ban is this discrimination or a push for public health. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and we have a call go ahead Paul from Ashland Hi how are you. Fine I tend to take a libertarian viewpoint on this and that is a legal product. I suppose if you're in public housing there would be strings attached and I suppose you would have to read here to the policy. It's much is to be good if there was that that maybe the area perhaps like a patio whatnot that these people could go out in. That a front entrance is but I do

as a condo and I would put my foot down if my association had told me that I couldn't smoke that it would probably take a consortium of people. Hopefully if that ever happened you know take some covert action. OK let Chris answer that Chris. Well let me first start by answering it by saying that a lot of condominiums are smoke free and have made the decision to go smoke free. And you're right that you have to get a typically at 75 percent of the ownership needs to vote in support of it and they all go smoke free. In the abstract you know you're someone's right to privacy in their home ends at their neighbor's nose so you can do what you want in your home but if it's going to affect and hurt your neighbors as is often the case here with second hand smoke seeping into other units then that right is now you're balancing the rights between two individuals and that's a slippery slope because.

If your neighbor tends to be loud he probably has. But they would work and listen if you know something you hear into Rails and what you know. I could probably say turn it around say I don't appreciate the noise pollution. I would think a condo association would prohibit its people from running a woodworking shop in one of their heads but yeah but I think Paul's But you're right. Paul's viewpoint is that he has some choice and where is residents of public housing perhaps not. Paul thank you statically Exactly thank you so much for the call I'm going to ask Edna to weigh in on this. Now what about that public housing residents don't have the choice that the people in private facilities may have. Correct there are some more policies that seem very punitive choice low income families particularly people who live below the poverty line and still they have no options of going anywhere else. The hope is that we partnership that we currently have is really brings that to the table to say we have to be very careful with that particularly people who are addicted to smoking

that they might not have a choice that this is an addiction that they might not be able to get over and so what will be the alternative to that how would that policy look. Do we make it a lease agreement because if it becomes a lease agreement then you have to adhere to it there's no but if an ANS. Or do we make it voluntary that we do we don't then go and say half of the units will go smokefree others have won't but that's kind of impossible in public housing because you don't get to choose your apartment and so we it's a difficult because then you have to go outside and I think for most public housing there have gone smokefree you have to go outside. We're not taking the right for people to right away to smoke people could smoke. What we're asking is don't smoke in a dwelling to smoke outside of the building and so we want to emphasize that. Well I happen to know that Professor Berg is a little conflicted about this. If you say I mean you're very much about this is a public health hazard but you know what are people supposed to do if they live in public housing.

Right and I think there are other other concerns. I think what Edna said is it's really relevant that you know public housing is the housing of last resort for many for many people that beyond the public housing there may be nothing. They may have to double up with relatives who are or be homeless or something. And so I think exactly as an aside what what is the consequence if if a person is a smoker and they're in a public housing development that bans smoking and they violate that rule. How many times they violated violated and what is the consequence. At some point and does that include eviction for example so. So I don't know what the answers to this are. And I think it's not so much of a problem in the current context where a small percentage or nonsmoking but as the percentage increases then I think it becomes a bigger question. Well we were interested in what people just folks on the street had to think about say about this so let's take a listen. I think banning smoking in public housing is taking it a little too far. I understand health issues when it comes to people on the street and the public. But when you start to control

people's families and people's lifestyles and I think you're taking it a little too far. And where do we really draw the line in what the government can control and what they can't control. It's a good idea you know follows all the restrictions on smoking or other public places. You know smoking is really you know it's a bad problem. And sometimes the government has to step in to help people sort of them selves. What do you think about that. I think that yes it is a bad problem and sometimes the government has to step in but the way in which they step in is what we're concerned about. We want to make sure that's why we're saying we want to make sure this is such transparent that the process is very transparent because there has to be issues thought through in terms of why are people smoking in the first place so not everybody is smoking because they started as a teenager but because they have these real issues that they don't know how they how to deal with that they then resort to smoking and. And

so how that works out and how the policy works out is important to us because what are you going to say. You can smoke 20 feet away from an apartment so what does that mean for people who are disabled in wheelchairs in the middle of a snowstorm. What does that mean. And so that's why everybody has to sort of be a part of their lives in public housing. Everybody has to be a part of the solution of the policy to make sure that we have a policy in place that that works. And that's fair to everyone who lives there in fear for the population who is coming to live there. And so people who are. Not only speak different languages and come from different from different cultures but also like I said for the people who are young and people who are disabled in what way. You know like what works for them and the house and doing a real investment in services to service those people because everything isn't about a sin say a smoking sensation program.

OK well what do you say to the mayor who says 80 percent of people in public housing have said that they want the smoking to be banned. I think that you know for a person who does surveys I don't know how how good this is going to sound but ok. But who are you serving. And so I mean so you talked so where 85 percent of the people said that they were for banding smoke. And this is in a public housing development that is totally the oldest man torn down. A new is being built. People are excited about the new place being built so it's going to be like a new community. And so yes they want all those bad habits not to come back into the into the new community. But what about those communities with the same person had been in his apartment for 45 years and have been able to smoke for 45 years and now they're asking them and not the asking. Asking that person in a sane environment not a new crispy clean environment but that same brick and mortar and asking them so what kind of services do day need

is what we want to make sure that we're able to address the those issues that we have a caller David from Falmouth Go ahead please. David yes go ahead. I think the band we need to be careful about the government having to control but any public building think should be under the same jurisdiction. So public housing should fall under the same rules as the public airport or a public bus station or a storefront down Main Street. So what do you say to a man who says what you said a person has been in the same building for 45 years and now you're changing the rules on him. Get used to the change in your room smoking your living room smoking your kitchen. But when you walk out into the hallway or down to the lobby but the cigarette out respect I just don't smoke. But the band is going to be no smoking in the building because as Professor Brooky has pointed out it seeps even if it's in your house it seeps out into the hallway so this means

that the person has been there for 45 years has been smoking cannot smoke in that building period anywhere. So what he said in that difficult step I think the government overstepping their boundaries and telling people what they can do when they're out. OK and I'm a nonsmoker. That you know I have to stand up on their side on that one. OK well thank you very much. Now may some people think this is a class dynamic issue that you know it's one thing to ban people who live in public housing who as Professor Brookie said you know where they go. It's quite another. Even when Chris talks about people in condos they have some choice in the matter. How do you respond to that. The Housing Authority also has a responsibility to protect all those residents that live in all of the units. And and unfortunately you know I have to really like agree with Chris like you know it stops

at your neighbor's nose and enjoying the study because some of this is very old stock. You can have so many cracks in the old stock of smoke seat belts like me the old buildings. Yes and yes seeping through the plug unit right. And the cracks on the floor. So is those children because how we got into this it was we were doing this this project with Dr mega Sandow of Boston Medical Center trying to get do medical transfers in so many of the medical transfers were back logged with the BHO Because people want to move because their children asthma was so bad exasperated that they were going to the hospital like every week or every other week in the emergency room for hours and hours and it was a I want to move because the protest smoke is killing my kids right and b ha was saying well we can't we can't move you for that because there's smoking in the next you know in the next housing

development and they're smoking in the next building to serve I'm hearing you correctly this is a good move. This this is a very good this is a very good move. It's a it's a health move. We're just saying that it has to just be done in a very plugged like manner and audit and that process is very inclusive. That's what we're asking everybody be included and taken into account. Professor go ahead. Yeah I just I think that may brings it back to the main point which is that we have children and nonsmokers living with smokers who are or living next door to smokers who are being exposed and this is a serious problem and we do need to address it. And I would just concur with her that that that you know how that's handled the process is very and and the details of the outcome the services provided the timeline that whether it's gradual or sudden a lot of those things are going to make a huge difference in how this plays out. Well I'm certain we're going to be back to this conversation again as this process goes forward I wish

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I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show yesterday the Oscar nominations were announced. Joining us to talk about the films and performances that deserve the honor and what ones were overlooked is Peter Davis. He is a novelist and a filmmaker. He won an Oscar for best documentary for his Vietnam era film hearts and minds. Peter is also a member of the Academy of Arts and Sciences that means he gets to vote on these films. Peter thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for inviting me to your terrific new show Kelly. Thank you. OK so first just give me your overall this oral response to the list of nominations. First I'm so glad that they increased the list to 10 really. I think that was a very good idea not just to get a bigger television rating for the show but because it brings attention to some worthy films that wouldn't have gotten any attention at all. Well you know there's a lot of people saying it's just crass commercialism they just increase the number so they can make some more

money. If they're making more money those are films that should be seen by people I think it's a fairly strong field. You asked about what might be left out. My second favorite film of the year was left out which is the last station. It's the story of the last days of the life of Leo Tolstoy and his wife and his wife actually played by Helen Mirren. I think the most brilliant performance in many years now I think she was nominated her performance and so was Christopher Plummer as a supporting actor that that story would be. And he was all over the film the Screen Actors Guild has some arcane rules. He probably felt and other actors felt and the producers felt that he couldn't get a Best Actor nomination. So he got a supporting actor nomination which he certainly deserves but he really was a leading actor. Well I am concerned just from my my feeling about it

and by the way listeners this is the only conversation you'll have about the Oscar nominations with an Oscar winner and an Oscar nominee the Oscar winner would be Peter Davis and I would be an Oscar nominee So there you go. So I have to I think we have a little gravitas to say well we think yes that's what I'm thinking. OK. Anyway I'm concerned that the film that's going to just dominate everything is Avatar let's just take a listen. Council is these remotely controlled bodies could have a choice. They've grown from human DNA. Mixed with the DNA of the natives. GREENE You never talk about it. That's a big deal to me. You give me what I need to get you get your links to. Your real live. Oh yeah. OK so I went to see it. And all of the critics were right it was a dumb plot and then it made me mad on another level. The no question about of the effects are amazing. Your response to it.

Well it's about my fourth or fifth favorite film of the year The Hurt Locker is so much a better film incidentally avatar that got nine nominations it did not get a nomination for best screenplay. Thank goodness. Thank God. Yeah well it was. It's a wonderful kid's movie that grownups can also have a lot of fun at. And I wouldn't I don't want to be prudish about movies a lot of fun. And visually it's a treat. It has probably the most childish stereotyped story. And that's that's the part of it I didn't like in that movie. That made all white people bad and all the Indians good if it was actually go. And here you have the noble savages are these sort of deformed loopy looking. Yeah yeah yeah. And the and the bad guys are all the Americans who come to try to colonize this place and move move the

the beautiful pure perfect innocent natives out of there out of their place so. So it's kind of cheaply anti-imperialist. And the worst part of it is from a story point of view. In order for those innocent people or people to be saved it takes a white guy yeah who becomes a traitor to the other white guy handicapped white guy on top of that you know you don't even get me you know you just drove me crazy OK so here's a clip from your very favorite. Then. Welcome to Camp Victory Camp Victory. This is Camp Liberty. Oh no it changed about a week ago. Victory sound that's. What you don't want I come from. If you piss off 873 873 here a while back you know that. Now I'm frankly scared to go see this The Hurt Locker is your favorite nonsense and fabulous to do go see it.

It does have more suspense than Avatar but it's real suspense it's the suspense of real people at war. There's also a great deal of sympathy for the occupied people the Iraqis and it. It's a beautifully made film and interestingly Kathryn Bigelow who directed it and won me the Director's Guild Award as Best Director used to be married to James Cameron the man who directed Avatar. And apparently they're still very good friends. I hope Kathryn Bigelow beats her acts. I hope she does too just because I just like that you know kind of drama that's just from a personal standpoint I want the woman. It's so hard for a woman to get nominated and in fact Peter I'm trying to remember when was the last time a woman was nominated for an Oscar for directing and I can't think of one. Yeah there you go so I mean it's still the fact that she got nominated is really amazing and if they give in and give it to James Cameron I will be truly disgusted. But I have to say that he is already beat. He being James Cameron has already beat his own record from a South African from a commercial

standpoint because his biggest selling movie of course Titanic the best selling movie of all time he's now beat that record with Avatar. It's just past Justin's billion isn't it something WAY past Titanic but it's just past two billion it's phenomenal. I'm sure that something like a third of the planet is seeing it now as a member of the academy don't you think the rest of your members are going to be persuaded by that. Those kind of numbers. No I do not and I think the fact that the screenwriters did not give it a nomination for its story or screenplay shows that they aren't. And I have a feeling that while it may win best picture I'm not for it is not my fourth or fifth choice. I think that it won't probably win best director and any acting awards. Well here's a film that I'm a little bit conflicted about and that's precious precious. Oh yes yes listen to a little clip from that never to

old people. Coming up we're going to get it well get it. I like puts. My name is Clarice precious you know. I want to be on the cover of the magazine. I was not a light skinned boyfriend. So first I want to be on TV to. Your body. You know. Now that featured a little bit of a clip of the main actress who is Gabby I cannot pronounce her last name. And also Mo'Nique who played her mother in the last part of it. And both of them have been nominated won for Best Actress and won for Best Supporting Actress Mo'Nique should win. Yes I supporting actress now as much as I'm conflicted about it now when I hear why you like it first

so I like it because well first of all I know about the conflicts because two people two women whom I love most in the world my daughter and my wife both have a lot of objections to it and it's stereotype of a poor black woman who has had all kinds of disadvantages and attacks on her and rape. I like it because I think it's very realistic. There is that aspect of life in our country's ghettos to our lasting shame and we haven't done enough about that. Whites blacks people in the middle class or upper middle class who could be helping that problem much more than we are. We haven't done enough. I also thought that the performances were so exquisitely right on and I've made documentaries that take place in ghettos and you

could find this as a documentary. It's a represent him expand his big city in the country so it is representative. I'm not saying it's not representative but you know what always happens is there's not a spectrum of films that depict the African-American experience so what we have is only precious out there and people think that's my experience it's not my experience there's you know lots of other experiences but that's the one that gets touted that's the one that gets awarded that's the one that gets acknowledged and that's not to denigrate the in this case the really superb performances by some people not everybody. And I have to say that Mo'nique in the one scene toward the end of it I don't think the rest of the film was she was OK. The one scene toward the end that was it I'm sure if anyone's ever heard that well KNOW SHE JUST THAT WAS AN OSCAR nominating moment you know. And you know maybe a winning moment. Yeah right. Kelly I think you're objecting not so much to the film but to the fact that Hollywood hasn't made better representation to the right of the black community the African-American

the wide range of experiences in the African-American community I mean really right. And I can be crazy. I completely agree with you but I got to say also that a lot of people a lot of African-Americans are disturbed that when I ask her is our name winning performances are chosen there usually by black people in bad circumstances. Well you know so there you go with that too so that's Hollywood I know. Morgan Freeman Yeah well it was nominated that's true this year for Invictus and you didn't like the film but I was uplifting I liked it. His performance is great the performance is great. I don't think Matt Damon was in it long enough to get his nomination I haven't got one I know what I just didn't think he was in and I thought the film was kind of boring. Right or right I mean you know me and maybe that's what people say uplifting is boring. Now listen you won your score for Best Documentary Feature I was nominated in that category. So I want to play a clip of one of the nominated films one of the five nominated films. The industry doesn't want you to know the truth about what you're reading because if you knew you might not want to

you could never have food companies this powerful you know history everything we've done in modern agriculture is to grow it faster fatter Brayden cheaper if you can grow what you can in forty nine. Why would you want one you got to grow in three months. Do you think your supermarket there's an illusion of diversity. So much of our industrial field turns out to be very arrangements of course. Now I gotta say that really excites me. You picked my favorite OK food is my favorite of the of the nominees. Again they left out and incredible film and I was one of the judges for this semifinal round to get it and that is Valentino The Last Emperor which is the best portrait of a narcissist it's about the veil and Valentino the Italian dress designer and his partner and his partner steals the film. Anyway that's a great film deserved a nomination didn't get one. But Food Inc. Not only deserved a nomination but now I

hope it when's and now what about the other films in that category. Anything you liked. Yes. Which Way Home which is about Mexican and Guatemalan kids who are trying to get across the border to the United States and which way home is just beautifully titled because their home is really going to mala or in some cases Mexico. But they want their new home to be the United States. And then the most dangerous man in America Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers. Well he's he's a great American in my view. And this is a significant film about him and his life. Now what about Meryl Streep and then the 16th Oscar nomination for Julia and Julie Julia Julia are Julie and Julie great. And I think she gives a wonderful performance. The only reason I prefer Helen Mirren is because Helen Mirren displays such a range of emotion love and passion on the one hand

craziness anger and a kind of. Zeal almost a missionary zeal to preserve her husband in the way that she wants him preserved so she even she gets to do more than she did in the film where she won me. I thought sure Elizabeth was the queen. Yeah I mean yeah and she won that but she was kind of a stiff person but she did it beautifully. But kind of a statue most much of the way through there. Here she's everything she could play Hamlet or King Lear if they would cast her in either of those parts you're a big Helen Mirren fan I can say I have that mine I think she's fabulous. But that's interesting that she's in the same category with Meryl Streep and people are saying Meryl Streep is the odds on favorite. Do you agree with that. I don't know who's the odds on favorite but I wouldn't say that now Streep would be the odds on favorite not a sentimental one. You know I just don't think the movie itself which I like. Yeah I like the movie itself. I

just don't think the movie itself has gotten enough buzz and nominations and I thought the screenplay of the movie was very good I was surprised that that Nora Ephron did not get a nomination for the best screenplay. I thought it was terrific. OK so now it comes time that you know we have to get your predictions. So after that hard luck is going to win you thing. I hope it wins and I don't know whether that's a prediction I hope it wins and I hope that Kathryn Bigelow wins for director and I assume Jeff Bridges who is in the what you might call the Mickey Rourke part right. Mickey Rourke's who washed up wrestler Jeff Bridges a washed up singer I think he probably should be the favorite although you know the others gave great performances. Jeremy Renner in The Hurt Locker. George Clooney you could vote for George Clooney in any movies in and not go too far wrong. And Morgan Freeman gives a great performance.

Let's hear a little bit of durance Clooney never defying old people their bodies are littered with that metal and they never seem to appreciate how little time they have left. Him. Asians look at the light travel efficiently and the other things will slip on shoes. Gotta love them. That's racist my grandmother I stereotype. Faster. You know that that's a more complicated film than I thought based on you know that clip and what I've heard from other people. Yes it is a more complicated film and I hope you'll see it and want it and it's certainly worth looking at. And I just want to make one other I think The Hurt Locker is going to win for best screenplay. That's I really believe it's a lock for that for Mark Boal who went to Iraq and really created this film and then Kathryn Bigelow took it over and made it what it is. And for best screenplay for an adaptation I think Nick Hornby who's a wonderful novelist ought to William for an education and I'm a little on the prejudiced side. The screenplay awards because my parents were

screenwriters. So you really know screenwriters. Well I grew up with them. So I mean so you know what's good is what I'm saying is you know that you pay attention to it. And some of us me no I'm not a critic on my semi-informed. Hey what's better than some of the rest of us. I think that's great. I think that what you're saying about the authenticity of The Hurt Locker may carry it forward and I would be very in favor of seeing a woman win. PETER DAVIS Thank you so much for joining us and I want to thank all of my guests for this hour. You can continue the conversation online at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley. We're going out on some of the music that one of the songs has been nominated for an Oscar. And it's from The Princess and The Frog. This is the Calla Crossley Show. Today's program was engineered by Jane pick and produced by Chelsea Merz. Our production assistant has an a white knuckle baby and we had production help today from Cindy Lundberg where production of WGBH radio Bostons NPR News and culture station.