WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Cali cross to show. Today thousands are running and one of the world's most famous races the Boston Marathon with 500000 spectators lining the main path and scores of television cameras recording each step. We're taking you to the greatest race the world has never seen. In the canyons of Mexico. A tribe of super athletes traverses up to 100 miles of terrain. We all know the Ginger Rogers did everything that Fred Astaire did but backwards and in heels. Well these athletes are doing three times the distance of marathoners in no shoes from barefoot running we go to the ultimate athletic shoe with a local designer who's dipping his toes into the muscle toning sneaker boom. And along the way we get the lowdown on basketball baseball and more with the diehard sports fans guide to Boston up next on Sports Central marathon madness Fenway fanaticism and sneaker sensations. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Craig Wyndham. The commander of U.S. forces in Iraq

says the top two leaders of the insurgent group al-Qaida in Iraq have been killed. And as NPR's Dina Temple-Raston reports there's hope the deaths will help stem the recent surge of violence in Iraq. The announcement first came from the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki in a televised news conference. He said that Abu Ayyub al-Masri the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq and Abu Omar al-Baghdadi the head of an al Qaeda group called the Islamic State of Iraq were both killed in an operation last week. The Pentagon confirmed the deaths today almost saris an Egyptian and took over in Iraq in 2006 after Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed in a U.S. airstrike. Baghdadi has been a shadowy figure at the head of an al Qaeda affiliate group that is taking credit for a series of attacks on Iraqi government buildings and embassies in recent months. Dina Temple-Raston NPR News. The sound of ceremonies in Oklahoma City today were survivors and relatives of

victims have been marking this 15th anniversary of the bomb attack there that left 168 people dead and hundreds of others injured. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano. We cannot guarantee there will not be another attack. No one can. But we are a strong and resilient country and we can result even a successful attack will not defeat our way of Apollo Tano says though the nation remains under the threat of terrorist attacks. Air traffic control authority is in Europe have created what they're calling caution zones where the threat of airborne volcanic ash is now diminished and where airline flights may resume soon. Still today thousands more flights have been canceled. Germany's Aviation Authority says it has granted tonsil permission to fly 50 planes back to Germany with about 15000 passengers aboard. Dozens of gun rights advocates are bringing their pistols loaded and carried openly to a demonstration at a national park

service area just across from Washington D.C. today. NPR's Jamie Tarabay reports that's one of two gun rights rallies near the nation's capital. Members of her stall of the Constitution are gathering at Gravelly Point on the banks of the Potomac River. That's as close to the Capitol as they can get openly carrying weapons. The Supreme Court has ruled that D.C.'s handgun ban violates the Second Amendment to the Constitution but restrictions remain. The other group is the second amendment. Meeting at the base of the Washington Monument supporters say they're there to remind the government of their right to keep and bear arms but they're leaving their weapons at home. Jamie Tara NPR News Washington. Stock prices are mixed at the start of a new trading week on Wall Street the Dow is down one point at eleven thousand seventeen. This is NPR News. Toyota says it will pay a record fine of nearly sixteen and a half million dollars to the federal government for not informing authorities quickly enough about a potentially dangerous accelerator

pedal defect. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood says Toyota has accepted responsibility for violating its legal obligations but the automaker is denying allegations that it broke the law. Authorities in Pakistan say today's bomb attacks in the city of a shower appear aimed at police. The deadliest blast occurred in a crowded market area where police were monitoring a protest against electricity cutbacks. That blast killed 22 people earlier. As NPR's Julie McCarthy reports at least one child was killed and several injured when an explosion detonated outside a school. Authorities say that a small improvised explosive device was planted near a shop in front of a public school that is affiliated with the shower police. Over the weekend attacks by Islamist militants in the district of Kohat adjoining to shower killed more than 50 people. The turmoil comes as Pakistan marks what is being called a political milestone. The president also Ali Zardari today signed into law the 18th Amendment to the Constitution stripping the president of powers that had been expanded under

former President Pervez Musharraf. Gone is the presidential prerogative to dissolve parliament with a constitutional dispute resolved. Analysts say Pakistan's leadership has dispensed with a major political distraction that should allow it to concentrate greater attention on battling the militancy. Julie McCarthy NPR News Lahore. Kenya's Robert Cheerio is the winner of this year's Boston Marathon breaking the course record by over a minute the OPI is table Casco won the women's competition. I'm Craig Wyndham NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from the Melville charitable trust supporting efforts to find and fight the causes of homelessness on the web at Millvale trust dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show today close to 500000 spectators are lining the path of the Boston Marathon and networks across the globe are recording every step of the way. So we've decided to take you to a

mega marathon that has gone under the radar for centuries. Our guest Christopher McDougall is the author of the bestselling book Born to Run a hidden tribe super athletes and the greatest race the world has never seen. Christopher McDougall welcome. Oh thanks a lot. Anybody who's listening to this show is grabbing their heart right now because I am not a sports person so this is really an exciting day for me to be talking sports with somebody who is as much as a sports person as you are how could you not be a sports person after that unbelievable race today. Just you know just truly in your honor. I watched it. It disturbs the heart to see people just moving that magnificently. I have to say I agree with you is very exciting. So your book for those who don't know it is really three stories and one as the title suggests. And through it all is the story of evolving science about running and the human body. So my first question to you is Why are humans born to run.

This is really fascinating stuff and I came across it by accident. You know my first entry into this topic because I was actually not a writer myself either I was a broken down ex runner who'd been told over and over again by doctors. If you don't that nonsense that running is bad for the body and if I keep on doing it I would have to replace my knees. And then here but this tribe in Mexico's Copper Canyon who cannot just do a marathon like we saw today able to. Five of those in one day. And as it turned out there is some groundbreaking anthropological research being done at Harvard which is pretty clear that humans are the only natural advantage we had. To most of our history was the ability to outrun any other animal on the planet. We're not bad but we have unbelievable indorse. So based on what you know I'm going to get back to that that research at Harvard about the science of running now that now what you know about it. Is there anything that the winners of today's marathon might have put into practice to get to the head of the pack and let me

remind listeners that the winner was a young woman who had never run the marathon before but she trained on the heels of Ethiopia and that's on the US for the women and the men's winner was fifth last year and he came in first this year Robert Cheruiyot. It was under him he set a new record by the way looked like 90 seconds off the record because you know you measure these records in like a second or so here this guy bangs out a minute and a half off the record is just sensational. And if I even attempted to second guessed one single step the guy filming on the course that would be beyond even my usual arrogance. So no I can't offer any suggestions as to what they could be doing differently. But what we do see out there I see eye to eye much much more interested not in the runners the front of the pack but the 40000 runners behind them because if we saw any other. The most species on the planet behave in this way the gathering by the tens of thousands to run through the streets. We would think there's some kind of like mass migration going on but I think it's a

testament to our heritage as long distance runners that we feel the sort of atavistic instinct to gather in groups and run long distances. Now you mention the Tarahumara the tribe in the copper canyons that were hidden for so long and you managed through a very interesting story and people should read the book to find them and to get to know some of them. You know for them 26 miles would be like I guess walking across the street. They run these hundreds of miles. Tell us about them. This is kind of this kind of fashion because I get what we're given this idea that 26 miles is the ultimate challenge and you know the ancient Greeks the deputy. He died after 26 miles and we're always told this. This is the upper bar for human achievement. But here at this other group and it's not just their champions that run these distances but I saw men in their 70s men and women in their 70s running 30 40 50 miles at a time. Instant homemade sandals and I think the difference is that if

you accept that running is our natural heritage that if you don't go into this mentality that it's work and it's going to be hard and pain for you just relax and enjoy it. They were capable of so much more than we think. Now when you first met them however and Yemi you had heard about them but when you really saw what they could do. Give us a sense of you know just how you how you felt about how overwhelmed you were at observing what you just said. Yeah you know the thing was it was pretty for hard for me to even go down there. It was so much an arrogance before it was dumb. They live in one of the most secluded inaccessible parts of North America the copper canyons are deeper and wider than the Grand Canyon and they have essentially been hidden down there since the cold Chiesa doors arrived. They supported themselves so they would have to do combat with the cold Chiesa doors and they've remained almost like a living Smithsonian exhibit unchanged for tens of thousands of years. When I for the first time I got a chance to see them

run. It was actually not even the champions. It was a group of school. Did they burst out of the classroom this tiny little one room schoolhouse and this whole group kids 5 6 up to 13 years old ran the equivalent of a six mile race during their one hour little recess kicking the ball along having a blast. I saw two things number one was their method of running. It seems like an almost weightless there floating across the ground. So different in the way Iran which is kind of bumping along. Secondly they were smiling and laughing and having a blast. So much different than most of the sort of grimaces we see on joggers around us and that's when I realized they were on to something. Pretty powerful effect and effect on how you began to run. Yeah what really sank the message home to me was I tried to sort of quiz the title modern and brief them and then sort of believe their secrets out of it and of course you know you

remain a reclusive tribe by not answering questions when the stranger Shelob So they basically shut me out. But they did tell me about a guy they called the white horse come by along on a white horse and he told me this tale of some mysterious stranger who had appeared in a canyon two years earlier and had been living down there ever since and had been trying to turn himself into a 21st century model and essentially said go find the white horse and you'll get your answers. I should have been suspicious but I Goebels I went for and turns out is actually true. But with the way horses down there I was able to track him down and this was so cool Cali was it. Steve when he first appeared in the canyons was the same age I was the time I went looking for him. He's my same height my same shoe size. And you're a big guy you should have a big gob over you know like six quarts at a time of like two hundred thirty five to forty pounds. And the white horse was a broken down x wonder where he had first appeared down there 15 years earlier. I would for a little jog with him and he was running exactly like those gleeful that a lot of

kids and I realize that this is something that can be learned. You don't be born with it. You can be like a bio and you can learn it. Now let's go back to that science that we talked about going on some part of it. You may you you really did follow the path of science all over the place. Right. Every part of the world but of course we take pride in anything that happens right here in Boston. So here's something from your book that I was particularly fascinated with barefoot Ted was right of course lost in all the fireworks between Ted and was an important point. Running shoes may be the most destructive force to ever hit the human foot. Barefoot Ted in his own weird way was becoming the Neil Armstrong of 21st century distance running an ace test pilot whose small steps could have tremendous benefit for the rest of mankind if that seems like excessive stature to load on bare footed shoulders. Consider these words by Dr. Daniel Lieberman a professor of biological anthropology at Harvard University. A lot of foot and knee injuries

that are currently plaguing us are actually caused by people running with shoes that actually make our feet weak cause us to over pronate give us knee problems until 1972 when the modern athletic shoe was invented by Nike. People ran and very thin sell shoes had strong feet and had much lower incidence of knee injuries. That was that was fascinating to me. That was something I hadn't heard before your book. You know I was that was all brand new for me as well. I had grown up always being told that the first thing you do if you ever want to learn how to run is go to a shoe store and get fitted for a special pair of shoes and make sure your place those shoes and take care of the shoes. It was kind of like an oxygen mask if you're going scuba diving I don't. Do not attempt this without the proper equipment to get to me that was almost like an inviolable law of nature. If you run you need special shoes. Then I meet this guy barefoot Ted who turned up down the Copper Canyon floor with me for this bizarre race. Nine months later but. Therefore Ted runs everywhere barefoot their pretend train by pulling his wife and

daughter through the streets of Burbank in a rickshaw in his bare feet. And I go I meet this guy you think he's an eccentric and he's got nothing to tell me. But then the more I began to research I realized that he was actually on the something. It's only in our lifetime that running has become associated with fear and pain throughout American and world history. Running was always associated with freedom vitality Navajos young women their rite of passage into adulthood was by running a series of long runs every morning into the rising sun. It's always been associated with with what is best in human and I think that what happened was when we developed this product which is only been around since the mid 1970s the best way to sell anything is to make people afraid. If you tell them they're going to get her in a state you buy their product and suddenly you know watch sales go through the roof. Or you can and convince them that it's an exciting product to have and I want to let our listeners hear this this is a vintage Nike and Spike Lee and Spike Lee is playing a character

Mars Blackmon and he's convinced that the athletic performance depends on one thing and one thing only the money is going to be assumed to be sure that's not the issue. About this you know the money is going to be tissue. So there you have it. This was a Nike ad by the way. And you know hey it was about that was for Michael Jordan and the basketball but Nike had a real huge presence and belief making us all believe that shoes were really key to the performance and not anything else. Yeah I mean that's that's really sad and it's lamentable because I think the aftershock of that is that what happened with running shoes is that the way you distinguish your products from other products is by making them thicker and bigger and flashier. And what happened was they kept adding thicker and thicker heels to the shoes and it created a new way for people to run prior to the invention of the modern running shoe the only way you could run it was to live in your fourth but you can't run

and lean on your heel and your bare feet hurt. If you jump off of a chair you're going to land on the balls of your feet. Bend your knees. That's the way the human body absorbs the shock. Then he started escalating the height of the heel on the shoes. And it's almost impossible actually to run in the thick running shoes and not lean of your heels because you can't you can't clear the ground with those thick things unless your toes are pointed up. And I believe that as well as create this rash of running injuries. The Tarahumara just by the way run in very flat sandals you describe them. Yeah that's what really caught my eye the first time I ever even heard about the tribe. I was down in Mexico on another Simon and put me through a magazine and I see a picture of what looks to me like some old guy in a bathrobe and slippers running down this trail. And it turns out this was a 55 year old runner who had just won a 100 mile race. And what about pitchers they can hail a second we're his fancy shoes. How's this guy going 100 miles at age 55. That's what really shocked me.

Now you have a very strong statement you've made that it's running shoes where a drug should be yanked off the market. Yeah sure. Exactly here's the here's the situation. There's never been a study which is ever been performed which indicate that running shoes do anything to prevent injuries that they do anything to make you faster. It's eight essentially provide any bit of benefit whatsoever. However there is growing evidence that they may actually do harm and to get if you introduce a drug to the market. The FDA will determine at the very least is not doing harm. I mean I DO GOOD believe to make sure that's not going to be poisonous. What happens with running shoes is there's no evidence that they help and there is considerable evidence that they hurt so do you run barefoot or what footwear do you run. I run barefoot whenever possible. And here's the important thing about this question is the confusion and the issue is not about. Protection of your foot. I mean they did not wear shoes they wear in home a chance to know that's still a shoe. Protection is fine. We're running shoes went off the rails

was when they started to tinker around with correction. When they started adding all these wedges in the lift and shock absorbers trying to correct the way your foot lands on the ground. That's the problem. So what I like to do is run barefoot whenever possible. If I'm going someplace really you know gnarly and scrabble I'll stick on a pair in sandals. There is also a product called an evil five fingers. It's kind of weird looking but that really works well. Yeah it kind of looks like a rubber foot. We're going to talk about that more on the other side of this break. I'm Kelly Crossley and we've been talking about the Tarahumara Indians in Mexico the persistence runners who log up to 100 miles and about barefoot running with Christopher McDougall. He's a former war correspondent for The Associated Press he's now a contributing editor for Men's Health magazine and his bestselling book is Born to Run the hidden tribe super athletes and the greatest race the world has never seen. Christopher McDougall We'll be right back to talk to you. With.

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WGBH dog the. This is eighty nine point seven. WGBH Boston NPR station for trusted voices and local conversation with the takeaway. The Diane Rehm Show and the Emily Rooney show explore new voices with us all day long here on the new eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Become a sustaining member of WGBH with an ongoing gift of $5 a month and take advantage of a 15 percent discount on the celebrated documentary Eyes On The Prize America's Civil Rights Years. Just click the donate button at WGBH dot org. If you're just tuning in I'm talking to Christopher McDougall the author of Born to Run a hidden tribe super

athletes and the greatest race the world has never seen. Chris I have to say that I first heard about your book about a year ago from my colleague who's a cameraman at Fox Morning News. And he said what really impressed him were the ultra runners because it was so inspirational. Do you think these stories of the Tarahumara who are super athletes and the ultra runners can be inspiring for people who are just sort of weak and runners. Let me tell you something that a lot of people are have trouble swallowing but I think ultra runners people who compete in a 100 200 mile races are going to be the salvation of American running. And I don't mean illegal anybody recreational running. And the reason why is ultra runners who compete in races that nobody ever heard of in places that nobody else ever goes to like in Death Valley. Their spirit is so communal and they're first and foremost priority is challenging themselves and enjoying themselves.

And it was storming to me to go to the hundred mile races and find people laughing and joking and share interests. My favorite story the ultra marathoner was I was facing a woman named Jen Shelton in a 100 mile race and she sort of vanished into the woods a mile third didn't come out again. And when she reappeared she was with two other runners. What had happened was he had stopped and it was bomb and he was getting sick and had to pee. Will the issues competing with rather than dusting her. We thought she was feeling better and made sure she got to miss a station and someone said to me that's the difference between an ultra marathon and a marathon. That's a marathon they would've jumped over her had a disqualified in ultra marathon. Everybody there was a group. Well that's a fantastic way to in this conversation I have to say. The book for a non-sports person like myself and a non runner is fabulous. So Christopher McDougall thank you so much for joining us. It was a pleasure Kelly. Thank you very much. OK we're shifting gears just a little bit and we're talking about sports today from the Boston Marathon to the evolution of sports enthusiasm in Boston. And joining me now is writer Chris Klein author of the die hard sports fans guide to Boston his

sports writing has been featured in The Boston Globe. ESPN dot com. And New England travel. He's also the author of discovering the Boston Harbor Islands a guide to the city's hidden shores Christopher Klein welcome back. Thank you very much Kelly. OK now today it would seem really underscores your whole diehard sports fan thing about Boston. We've got the Boston Marathon we got a Red Sox game and a Bruins game tonight. Does that say it all about Boston. Yeah yeah pretty much. Pretty much. You know we're just missing I guess the Celtics I think we have to wait another day for them but this probably is the best day on the Boston sports calendar. And you just you know you start off with the marathon which is really. A quintessentially Boston event really is something that's really unique to our area the longest running marathon and then you have the Red Sox which of course every game is just a big event and then you have the Bruins later on so yeah you can have a nice full day as a Boston sports fan hanging around the city today.

What does the Boston Marathon fall in the spectrum of you know all things sports in Boston. It's one of these unique events that are just very particular to being a Bostonian it sort of falls in with the head of the Charles and the Beanpot as these institutions that are particular to to the city. You know for maybe the real rabbit for sports fans who are into the Patriots and the Red Sox. They may not really follow the marathon that much and the reason is because if you're following it really is just a pure athletic sporting event. For the most part you know we know these runners for the two or three hours at Amazon which is a door you're watching most and if you're watching Yeah. So I mean if you're home a TV you know you don't really have this personal connection to the athletes as you do with the local sports teams of course. But I think really the spirit of the marathon what makes a special event is not the lead runners necessarily Anyway it's going out maybe after lead runners go through and then just seeing the thousands of people who are your neighbors who are out there running in the inspirational stories

that are there and that I think is what makes it a special event and something that makes a broader maybe than just sports but for you know if you're following it's just purely the athletic event and want to see the winners or losers it doesn't resonate to the same degree as some of the other sporting events that we have. But if for spectacle and going out to seeing it as a spectator then that's really where it resonates. Now there's enough history in this book to entertain those of us who could care less about the sports here in Boston. Tell me share with the audience some of your favorite pieces that you came across while putting this book together. Well I think what's really. Ironic is that I think Boston's by far the most diehard sports fan city in the country but it's one where this certainly wasn't preordained. In fact up until the time of the revolution it was a colleague at least embrace sports and that's because of our forefathers the Puritans. And when they arrived they did not embrace any sort of athletic pursuits outside of maybe hunting or fishing. And they thought that sports and athletics were incubators of morally

corrupt behavior such as gambling or other activities that profane the Sabbath. So really by the time of the revolution the only sports that were being played in Boston were lawn bowling and swimming and horse racing. But as you make the point you make your book is that Boston has been involved in developing so many sports. And yeah and that really happened in the middle of the 1900s and that's the time when the Industrial Revolution people had more time and more importantly they had the money more point a leisure time to engage in sports. And the Boston Brahmins became pioneers and so had their sons and the development of a lot of sports. But I think it's also a time when Boston you know was known as the Athens of America. So. Along with intellectual ism and spirituality athletics were embraced as being part of a well-rounded person and I think the city took to it at that time and then it sort of became a tradition and you had these events such as the marathon develop in the latter half of the

1900s in early 1900s and then we know that everything in Boston went to becomes or tradition is something that's handed down from generation to generation and I think that's why we're so connected to sports nowadays. We're talking with Christopher Klein The book is The die hard sports fans guide to Boston. You said you wrote this from the fans perspective what do you mean. I think what I set out to do was to you know the book is part history part guidebook So I want to write from the fans perspective in terms of if I'm going to go to a local sporting event and I'm going to invest my time and my money I want to have the best time that I'm there so. When I went to the sporting events I sort of want to check it out from the fans perspective to know what I want to know in terms of where I want to sit. What are my food options were maybe some of the different spectator tips hidden secrets that I want to have a great time a game or maybe save a buck or two when I go there as well so I really want to come in and write this from the perspective of someone who wants to go to the

game and have a good time as possible when they go there. Well what what examples of food are readily available. What else are you finding a lot of unique choices particularly at at Fenway Park and you now have the answer now. It is I mean they actually have executive chef there they're now preparing food and you can get you know I think these steak tip sandwiches and chicken sandwiches from hilltop steakhouse and they get your Papa Gino's pizza but they really go out. You actually have now like a vending machine there for kosher food as well so they're really doing these breakdowns and segmentation the market and you have a lot more broad choices and you used to have besides just the hotdog and the beer and and the peanuts when you go to the game. What would turn somebody who is not at all interested in sports into a sports. Well I think in Boston it really is because it's tied into the heart of the city. I mean there's really a vibe to the city that gets tied into how the Red Sox did the night

before the Patriots did and I think if you really want to know about the heart and soul of the city you have to know about its love affair with sports so I think just to to sort of get a vibe of the city you really want to understand about sports and I think just going to events such as a game at Fenway or for the marathon it's not just what's going on the field but it's the energy that you get from the fans that are around you in a way it's sort of theater in which it's more than just theater in that there's not just the play that's going on on stage you know the ballplayers on the field the fans are really active participants in this in this theater so if you view it in that respect I think that there's a lot of energy that you get going to a sporting event. That you may get a little bit more than going to another cultural event but I think it's one that again really ties into the heart beat in the vibe of being a Bostonian. Now you mentioned that the Big Four like basketball football and something else I

can't remember are really the top sport in hockey against the top sports here in Boston. But I wonder about soccer. You know we've. Is that gaining ground at all we get the World Cup going on in South Africa is anything happening on that front. It is gaining ground and there is a there's been a men's professional team the New England Revolution a place down in Gillette Stadium where the Patriots play and they've been around for about 15 years or so a women's soccer team the Boston Breakers just started last year and they play at Harvard Stadium and the soccer matches are really popular families are really of all the professional sports provide the most friendly family family friendly atmosphere. And you know soccer is a popular youth sport so you get a lot of kids that go there and of course the immigrant groups to Boston Yeah it's been huge with them so. World Cup is actually a real fun time not just to go to the local soccer games but go check out a game like Italy's playing go to

one of the cafes in North and or Brazil's playing go out in Allston or Brighton and just being around the fans even if you don't really know. Again if you don't care that much about the sport it's the energies of the fans around you that really draw you win. So and you can have chicken wings too. Absolutely. OK here's an interesting you know until I read your book I had thought about this really of course it's obvious you know this is a town that names a tunnel after a sports figure. Ted Williams and I've heard people say Boston is really not a sports town it's like a cult town like you know it follows while people are winning and after that you know they fall away. What do you say to that. I don't necessarily agree that when I was in Boston tend to be a pro town it is focused on the pro teams. In terms of the media but I think if you look at the games themselves when you take a look at if you go to some of these college events and even high school events minor league baseball teams these events often sell out. So it's not just that the fans are focused on the on the professional

teams. There's a minor league team for the Boston Red Sox a little spinners they have a longer sellout streak than the Boston Red Sox. Really. Yeah and any time of sporting events comes to this region you really have to act quick to snap up tickets and it's not just the not just the pro team so I think as I say in the book if you put up a scoreboard people will come you know sort of like it'll feel a dream it doesn't matter if you start keeping score. Bostonians going to show up and watch check out the events so. You find there are these little pockets of people that are into college hockey and events like the Beanpot and you will find at college hockey games sell out around here but they don't necessarily draw the same attention in the media so I think with sports radio and the newspaper headlines go to the pro teams but it runs a lot more deeply than just the pro teams in terms of the fan base here. Is there some sports writing that that you think is good and people should pay attention to there. I think if there's a lot of great sports writing in this town I mean you just pick up the two

daily newspapers The Globe and The Herald and you read the columnists that are in there and now you're seeing a lot of websites that are growing. Oh spring up. ESPN has a local website now ESPN Boston and sports radio stations that now have their own websites their own reporters as well. So you're not hurting for sports writing and you can get it in print online. All these different media. OK. Are you a diehard sports fan. Yeah. What's your sport. It changes by the season. Of course you know it's about I probably baseball you know the one that really draws me through and I'd say if I had a rank of you know Red Sox fan. OK. Did you ever want to play sports. Those who don't play watch sort of the most are right about it or write about it. Yeah I'd like I'd like I can't say I was ever too good at it so you know your place and you become become a fan.

There is as I mentioned earlier there's so much interesting history in here one of the pieces I like was about I didn't know that the Boston Garden scoreboard existed anywhere I thought that went away. Yeah that is amazing. It's in the Arsenal Mall in Watertown. It was purchased by a local developer I think he owned the mall at that time. So now if you walk into the food court while you're at Burger King look up you're going to see the old the old Boston scoreboard that was hanging up for about 60 years and the old guard and it still is still exists. So I love that. To me that is just totally exciting and interesting. And now because of your book I'm going to walk over there and look at the other you know. If you're going to have one other good tidbit for somebody trying to score a seat let's say Red Sox game. Well you know they're not necessarily as hard as you think as long as you're flexible. They do put some tickets on sale at the star before every game. If you just go to don't you have to sleep out overnight to get you know necessarily if you show up a couple

hours beforehand. So if you wait in line bring the newspaper bring something good to read or wait for a couple hours. The one thing is once you buy a ticket you have to go right into the ballpark so if you bring enough cash and you bring something to spend your time you can be able to get into a red sock if you really want to do it. I was listening this morning to my colleagues at AK and they were doing a poll asking people which one of these three sporting events today would pique their interest most and 63 percent said the Bruins game. Yeah. Does that surprise you now. No it doesn't because it's a playoff game so it just means so much more than the. Like I said you're your real sports fan is going to get sucked into the pro teams around here so I'm not surprised it will come down to the Red Sox or the or the Bruins game and because of Bruins games a playoff game that's going to carry a little bit more ways and a ressource lost three in a row going into. OK so that's it. See I would know that if you were here with me would you have been watching the marathon.

Oh yeah oh yeah I mean I definitely would want to have my remote and be flipping back and forth between the between the two game and the marathon. So were you surprised that the men's winner Mr. chariot not the one who won the other four marathons broke a record today. I'm surprised about the record and that he would do it so easily. It's not of course that you can necessarily run too fast on I think the weather conditions were pretty good in terms of the temperature it depends where that wind is often factors depending on how it was blowing during the race but to shatter a record by that much I think as your previous guest said it's something that's truly unusual to do. If you were to write this book a year from now would you discover shifting loyalties in terms of teams and or enthusiasm about games because that poll actually did surprise me. I don't think it would be the Bruins. I don't think so necessarily You might find that the shift is generally between Red Sox and Patriots are one to ruin some Celtics or three fourths you might find some

shift among those two groups. But for once the Celtics are now moving up to the top two you know next year so OK well they're moving up on our list. We've been talking about Boston sports and sports enthusiast with writer Christopher Klein. He's the author of the die hard sports fans guide to Boston. His other book is discovering the Boston Harbor Islands a guide to the city's hidden shores Christopher Klein thank you. Thank you. We're going out on the song thank goodness for the Bruins by Ryan Parker Up next our regular Monday feature local made good. We'll be back after this break stay with us. Think the

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The new eighty nine point seven. WGBH. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. It's time for our regular Monday feature local made good where we celebrate people whose creativity and individuality bring honor to New England. My guest today is Daniel Swenson. He's the co-founder and managing partner of a footwear startup out of Beverly Massachusetts called rocker x. The company is dipping its toes into the muscle toning sneaker boom with the chew. The Kimberley David Swensen welcome. Daniel Smith welcome. Good afternoon. Well and yourself. Good. So tell us about Rocker x. Well Rock Rock Rex is a toning sneaker that we developed in August of 2009 and we have three styles on the market at the moment. One called the Adrian one called Kimberly and one called Jennifer and we're trying to get into the market with the toning industry

MBT Stott it is probably six seven years ago sketches jumped into it. New Balance is making issue of us making the shoes all the major manufacturers are making shoes now. And myself my two other partners said it's time for us to jump onboard the bandwagon and we're throwing our hands in we're trying it out. Well you left out the great part though the names of the shoes are. The wives three Why. OK. OK. So we can't let them out. Yeah exactly that's what I want to tell your listeners I have the shoe in my hand and it does rock. It rocks back and forth. So the dynamic motion of this is supposed to do what it's supposed to help the posture of your back. Basically it gives you a good center of balance. It's your natural motion heel to toe heel to toe heel to toe so you don't have to run. You can just stand there and by standing there the natural motion supports your back. It tightens you calf's. It helps if the eyes in the whole the whole

construction works and the backside area and you glue everything in your abs. I mean it's basically for toning your whole body and everybody today. A lot of people do marathons today. They don't like to go out and run 26 miles. But they will walk around the neighborhood they'll go shopping in the mall. They'll go food shopping and it works every aspect of that. Well some of us can't can't run 26 miles right tell you that. Now you mentioned MBT this is a Switzerland based company that started making these these shoes rocker kind of shoes. And I wanted to play an ad for our listeners because they kind of burst on to the market. Well Reebok burst onto the market with a provocative ad that got everybody's attention. And let's say was a little sexist but gets all the attention now. She's so tight now so pretty and so stupid. Make your boobs jealous with the shoe proven to tone your butt more than regular sneakers Reebok easy tone with balance ball inspired technology better legs and a better butt with every step.

I'm surprised that you managed to sell anything after that. It's done very very well too. I'm just you know. But but here's the point. These shoes all of these shoes that are aimed aimed at women. Correct. Tell me why. Well women busy with their lives they have children they have now they have careers because everybody needs extra money. They just don't have time to go out and you know I guess women of themselves older and they need to get in shape I guess. Well it's fascinating me that nobody thought of doing this for men though. So that's that's not there's no male she won't there are male shows I mean they're actually coming out with one in June off men's shoes a coming out is called Jonathan OK and they will be in sketches actually has shoes MBT has shoes. OK men using them. And it's more of a every day in there. Caring toward the waiters in restaurants to use them because you can work on them and they're great for your feet all day.

What do your customers say and what do you hear back from customers I mean why is this taking off so much. Basically saying that people have foot problems. They're saying they're helping them if they feel that toning on the on the legs that tightening all their body parts. I mean one woman gave a testimonial said that the center of balance is 50/50 and hers was 45 on one side 55 on another. She bought shoes. And now it's 49 and a half and 50 and a half. So the center of gravity is great for. So it's just a health issue right now. OK. You know I want to let our listeners hear this sneaker company Skechers. And here is their ad which was not sexist but it's interesting because it really speaks to the health issue really in shape. Put in a gym with Shape Ups from Skechers carry you feel a difference in the way my jeans my feet legs and back don't hurt at all anymore. I'm Joe Montana and I spent 16 years playing football and shape ups of improve my strength and posture to get in shape shape ups from Skechers.

Now let me you know there have been some studies done so for people who are curious. Some sponsored by the shoe companies you won't be surprised at those said these shoes really work for the other folks who are not connected with the shoe companies who are sports medicine people. They're not quite sure. You know they can't hurt you but they're not quite sure that it's going to do all that it says it's going to do. So we have a ways to go before there's any I suppose scientific evidence but there is anecdotal evidence from your customers that they're enjoying the benefits. There's no question I mean there's no the customers are the ones who are wearing the shoes and they're going to tell you how they feel on their backs and if it's working for them as far as the the science is. That's still developmental and they're still learning about it every day they're learning about it. I mean one doctor is going to say it works. It's for example it's like running. Some people say running is very painful for the knees. It hurts your knees. You're going to get off the ride is where all the doctors say there's no such case. Everybody is

an individual. Every case is you have to take it within itself. Each case is very different. And that's the same thing with the tone and sneakers and some doctors are going to say it works. Some doctor is going to say it's not like going to a chiropractor. Some people say crack your back some people don't. Everybody's individual and you have to you know do what's right for yourself. We're speaking with Daniel Swenson. He and his partners have started a footwear startup out of Beverly Massachusetts called rocker R X and that's the name of the shoe. Now here's a situation where you weren't trying to come up with a different wheel. You sort of went along with the wheel that was already out there you know they rammed onto a tray exactly basically the the field was being planted and we are trying to get some seats. I mean that's that's basically what we're doing and fortunately for us the best marketing company in the footwear industry is Skechers and they promote the toning industry and with their help they helping all the other companies on board they

help the Reebok they've helped you know a Wii is coming on new balances making one in but sketches is far ahead of everybody else because of how they market products. Well in fact in March 2009 the company's stock it dipped to five dollars and 20 cents a share but by January it's up to thirty one dollars and forty five cents and it's even more today. And it's because of this one particular category the toning in the shape up sneakers. Now you didn't come into this without any background you worked at a discount you retailer in Boston South End That's correct. So you had a chance to observe the kind of shoes that people were interested in in the in the sneaker area. Exactly. And what did you see that led you to know that this is going to work. Aside from Skechers already well such as everybody you know everybody was talking about getting in shape and Beaty in. They needed an alternative to running because a lot of people don't have the time to go running and they're just walking every day. They need to be comfortable on their feet.

More and more people are becoming diabetics in everything is about the health. This category's all about the health. It's about being healthy. I mean that's why we slogan is footwear for a healthier you. And basically wear our shoes and hopefully you'll be healthy. At one point Oprah made the show the kind of shoe one of her favorite things that didn't hurt did it. No that doesn't hurt at all. What it would mean a powerhouse says something it only helps if your shoe is being sold on Amazon which is an interesting way of selling and also what some local retailers want you go that route as opposed to having a stand alone store. Well we do have stores that is selling independent shoe stores all across the country selling it. But my two partners are involved in the Internet business and that was you know we had strength there so that's how we started to go on the Internet. You got to tell us about that e-bay one day sale that just blew you out of the water so to speak. Yeah. First the first shoes came in December and we brought in a container which is about

twenty nine hundred pairs. And e-bay has a daily deal it's called and we put up all twenty nine hundred pairs and we end up selling Twenty six hundred pair in one day in a 24 hour time period with basically nobody knowing brand anything about us. They understood the concept of the toning industry in the sneakers and because it was affordable price. We sold twenty six hundred units while 40000 people looked at the website in. And look at it. So it was great recognition for us. You the shoes cost between sixty nine and seventy nine dollars. Seventy eight seventy nine ninety nine What's the difference. Different styles. OK and I need is the critical question. Our Kimberly Jennifer and Adrian wearing rocker are ex. Yes yeah. OK we like to know that you know it's OK because the named after Kimberly so we want to make sure that we look at her all the time when I wear black or X. Right exactly. So they're deliberately unstable.

They look they're like they're being compared to those balls that people use in the gym where you sort of get on those they're big softballs and you try to find your balance. So in addition to to theoretically exercising your legs and your butt that you're also getting balance a better balance that's correct. I mean basically your center of balance is being straight and if you balance if you if your balance is straight it's a better posture and if you have a better posture it's only healthier all the way around your whole body is in better shape. If you put if you stand up straight it's a lot better than keeling over. So that's the whole thing the center of balance and that's why the shoes or rock have the rock bottom. Now tell me why it would make a difference or should I have add this to my compliment of walking shoes. There's a very good walking shoes on on the market as you know that's a totally different thing they don't have this rocker mode. I know you can tell me yes of course I need a rocker R X but I thought that in terms of it and what it does for your body though differently. What was the difference between

what's happening with the walking shoe and what's happening with Rocker x. Well the rocker a Rex is and you know shoes you know tell the truth here. Rocker R X is giving you the balance. It's a natural motion of your foot heel to toe heel to toe and you're moving in typical walking shoes tend to be flat. So it's not it's not doing the motion it's kind of it hurts you. If anything you need to do the natural motion of your foot and that's heel to toe and that's why the rockers are working on the shape up so they are BTs can you go long distance with a rock or are X is that really more for a flat shoe. Oh yeah you can go long distance stuff and you can go five 10 miles. Oh yeah I can't do it initially because it will hurt the back of your legs when you first try the shoes because you're not used to the stress on it. You'll feel it it will be a burning sensation. And then after you develop the muscles there then you're old. It's like anything.

Is that a good thing tolerance the burning since then. Yeah yeah yeah. It's strengthening your muscles OK. Yeah. All right. Now you are an entrepreneur. Do you have any advice for aspiring entrepreneurs because again you grabbed on to a trend but still do. The economy is down this is not when somebody starts a business. Not necessarily. It's not it's not the best time to start a business. I mean the bottom line is in life you have to you have to throw stuff at a wall and hopefully something sticks. You have to go with your hot. I mean that's that's what we did we we believed in the idea and the concept. And more important than anything with rock our exit. What we have done we have teamed up with a company called Souls for souls which is a charitable dot company in Tennessee where every single pair of shoes that we've sold through rock Rex We have donated a pair of shoes to an impoverished child overseas. And right now where the shoes are going Haiti because of the earthquake. And so I mean we've donated almost 10000 pairs of shoes to the children in

Haiti. And I think that's more that's better than the shoes themselves. I mean we're giving back to the community and that's what i goal is I mean we're trying to help. I mean we're little people and we're just trying to make a little bit of. Meeting in the world. OK now I know you're coming out with the Jonathan after that. Well you have now we actually with the Jonathan we're also coming out with the sandal called the Emma that will be in the same container coming in the beginning of June. Look at this to describe it for me it's a it's an open sandal open toe Sandow with a strap on the back of the heel it's for women and it comes in three different colors and it also has a rocker rocker bottom where all the sandals that are rock or bottoms that they say are on the market. The really rock a Bottoms this is actually the first one that's coming out. What was the difference. They're flatter soles and he actually has the same sole that we use in our sneakers. So you really have to try them on to know if you're getting the rocker thing or not. That's correct.

OK. It's correct and you can try just one of the shoes on. You need to try em both on because it it is a different sensation. OK. And now I want to know if people have come in after wearing rocker X for man enough three months or so and they're now supermodels. We haven't had any of them. We haven't had any yet but I mean the positive feedback we like but no nobody's a supermodel yet that's not the goal. Now the goal is for a healthier you. Yeah but what the healthier may be has to be pretty good in your role model as well as you are happy. All right. Well I just think your idea is really interesting and it's a great thing and we love Local make good every Monday to showcase folks like yourselves who are doing stuff for New England so Danielle Swenson thank you so much for joining us. Thank you Kayla have a great day. And Daniel Swanson is the co-founder and managing partner of a footwear startup out of their holy mass called rocker R x. This is the Calla Crossley Show today's program was into nearby Allen Madison and produced by Chelsea murders. Our production assistant is a.. White knuckle

B. We got special production help today from our interned Vivian Ho. We are production of WGBH radio Boston NPR station for news and culture.