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I'm Sue O'Connell. This is the Kelly Crossley Show. Celebrities and politicians have long been the perfect match what one lacks in Gravatar the other lacks in glamour but together they pack a powerful picture perfect. But once in a blue moon our pop stars turn into politicians. From Al Franken to Jesse Ventura comedians and muscle men have become our nation's lawmakers. Ronald Reagan is certainly the most famous celebrity in chief but his road to the White House was paved with legitimate political threat. As a country we live under the threat of Alec Baldwin and George Clooney getting into the mix. But when the likes of The Donald and his birth are tempted to dominate the airwaves it's time to ask if the celebrity candidate is a good or bad thing for democracy. From there it's Karen daily on this year's bumper crop of matrimonial movies. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Barbara Klein. President Obama wrapped up meetings at the White House a few minutes ago with Jordan's King Abdullah.

This meeting was an opportunity for us to share our views on the extraordinary changes that are taking place throughout the Middle East throughout the region. The president says the two leaders discussed the situation in Libya and expressed appreciation for the support for efforts to bring humanitarian assistance and protection there. They also discussed rapid transformation in Tunisia and Egypt and called for both political and economic reform. Pakistani intelligence agents have captured what the Army is calling a senior al Qaeda operative. As NPR's Julie McCarthy reports the militant was found in the port city of Karachi. The Army identified the suspected al Qaeda terrorist as Muhammad Ali Qassam with an alias a maki army spokesman General Outtara boss said that a preliminary investigation showed him to be a Yemeni national who had been quote working directly under the leaders in Pakistan's tribal areas along the Afghan border. Several terror experts in Pakistan had not heard of all Maki.

However a statement issued by the Army said his capture was a major development in unraveling the al Qaeda network operating in the region. An intelligence source said he'd been taken into custody some days back from an area in Caracas he largely inhabited by Afghan refugees. Julie McCarthy NPR News Islamabad. And arrival ceremony in Dublin for Queen Elizabeth the first reigning British monarch to visit the Republic of Ireland since independence. The Queen and Prince Philip arrived today for a four day visit as Amy Gutmann reports after two bomb scares and demonstrations. Security is on high alert. In a nod to her host nation Queen Elizabeth arrived wearing vibrant emerald green. She then changed into a softer cream colored outfit before planting a tree at the Irish presidential residence. Protesters throwing fireworks flares and bottles were held back by police as the queen lay a wreath at Dublin's remembrance Park honoring

those who fought for Irish independence. Today marks the anniversary of Bloody Sunday. The queen's schedule includes a history lesson and reception eternity college. She and Prince Philip will also tour counties killed there and Cork. The next few days. For NPR News I'm Amy Gutmann in London. U.S. manufacturers produced fewer goods in April the first drop in industrial production in 10 months. The Federal Reserve says factory output fell four tenths of a percent last month. The drop is mainly attributed to a shortage of parts from Japan that forced carmakers to cut back output excluding auto production manufacturing rose two tenths of a percent. At last check on Wall Street the Dow was down 142 points at twelve thousand four hundred five the Nasdaq was off 17. This is NPR. Former California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is admitting that he fathered a child with a member of his household staff. The child is now more than 10 years old. Schwartz an Egger and his wife Maria Shriver announced last week they've

separated after 25 years of marriage. The former governor says he told Shriver about the child after he left office earlier this year. Shriver is calling for privacy. The head of the International Monetary Fund is spending another day in jail at Rikers Island and facing mounting pressure to step down. Dominique Strauss-Kahn is remanded in custody after being arrested for attempted rape. Finance ministers in Austria and Spain are calling on him to consider the welfare of the earth. The Minnesota Twins Hall of Famer Harmon Killebrew has died after battling a Suffolk cancer. He was 74. As Matt Sepic of Minnesota Public Radio reports Killebrew is nicknamed the killer belied a humble personality Killebrew signed with the old Washington Senators in 1054 at age 17 after a slow start to his career he eventually became known for monster home runs that reached the upper decks of many ballparks don't grow who wrote a history of the twins says when the senators moved to Minnesota in 1961

Killebrew his quiet demeanor made him a perfect fit for the upper Midwest. He didn't pound his chest when he did something well he did how he did grumble in the clubhouse. And yet he could hit these incredible home runs after a contract dispute Killebrew played his final season with Kansas City in 1075 retiring with five hundred seventy three home runs now 11th all time. For NPR News I'm Matt Sepic in Minneapolis. And I'm Barbara Klein NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from the Kauffman Foundation working to grow economies and expand human welfare. Learn more at Kauffman dot org. I'm going to do a terrific show today because I'm good enough I'm smart enough. And doggone it people like me.

Thank you Senator Al Franken Good afternoon I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly Crossley This is the Kelly cross show. What am I going to do. I do. So independent you're so tough it's so tough. I have no choice. You know that. Yesterday of course Donald Trump announced that he is not tossing his hat into the ring. It was considered breaking news and today we look at why this brief flirtation with politics dominated the airwaves as long as it did and what his impressive poll numbers at the beginning of his non Candice. Good to see at least say about the role of celebrity power in politics. I'm joined by Alan Schroeder associate professor in the School of Journalism at Northeastern University and author of celebrity in chief how show business took over the White House. Also with me is Aaron O'Brien associate professor of political science at UMass Boston welcome to you both. We're happy to take your calls from your they'd 7 7 3 0 1

8 9 7 0 1 celebrities like Donald Trump get into the mix is it good for democracy. Does it diminish the role of our politicians or our offices public offices making all the candidates look like clowns who aren't worth going to the polls for let us know where we are at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 or scoot on over to Facebook and leave us a comment. Welcome to both of you this is been an exciting week for celebrities in the news certainly with with news of Arnold and Maria over in California which we weren't even planning on today. But Ellen talked a little bit you've got this great book that's out. Not just talking about the Ronald Reagans and Al Franken of the world who were celebrities were actors were comics were writers and became elected officials. But the relationship especially between the presidency and celebrities and you're right quite tells some great stories from the days of FDR Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the relation ship with the growing Tinseltown that

was happening. Yeah and it really does go back that far if not a little bit further even it's kind of a it's kind of something that started happening when mass media came into their own in the 1920s and 30s but there was always a little bit of an arm's length relationship between politicians and entertainers there was a real clear division. Now unfortunately it seems to me like those lines are getting blurrier employer all the time and that the politicians have to have more and more of the skills of entertainers and the entertainers envy a lot. Power and position the standing that politicians have so there's a little bit of you know each of them standing on their own side of the fence wishing that they had what the other want to have. I was struck also in your book about something that I said to you before we went on air that's so obvious to think of but not something that as you're looking at history in America where we think that class is not the great divider for the years of Franklin Delano Roosevelt when he had Mickey Rooney say come to the White House. It was it was a class issue. You know Franklin was basically asking the performers as servants

to come and use their celebrity but never once did I think from the reading of it that he consider them equals and oh no not at all and you know they would come to the White House they would be allowed in they would have this big lunch and they would go off and raise money for the March of Dimes which was his charity. But they certainly didn't go out on the campaign trail with him they certainly did not raise money for him they certainly did not do the things that today we expect entertainers to do just by default. There was there were and it is I think you're right I think it is a bit of a class issue. So yeah very different. And you fast forward of course to Bill Clinton and his obsession if you will with celebrity but Richard Nixon was on Laugh-In and Richard Nixon was on the left and I mean we always think of Nixon as being sort of humorless and yet he was willing to go on laugh and you know it's an interesting there's also not only a kind of a class divide there's almost a party divide too that we think of Hollywood entertainers as being sort of a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party and Republicans like Richard Nixon have always had a much harder time

attracting celebrities to their cause. Aaron O'BRIEN Do you have to be a celebrity in some way in order to be a successful campaigner I mean I'm I'm struck by I can never remember if it was Leno or Letterman that said you know politics is SHOWBIZ for ugly people. You know and even now as we're starting to assess the Republican candidates Donald Trump not included for for president. I'm hearing a lot about well he just doesn't have it or there's no star appeal or there's not enough you know show biz in this person to be a good candidate is it. Is it necessary. I think it's necessary but it's Donald Trump that was it right to be able to work online and to meet people people who are in showbiz. Do that well. But most people in showbiz don't do politics and policy well. And so yeah you know our spark is great but if that spark is nothing's underneath then it's much more problematic.

I was struck also Ellen in your book about the hurt feelings you know how easily both the elected officials the presidents and the celebrities got their feelings hurt and I was appalled somewhat although again it is gambling you know shocked that there was gambling here. You know the stories of Frank Sinatra President John Kennedy and Sammy Davis Jr. are just I mean it's just astounding. What each each of them went through I don't lose any sleep about any three of them. You know having hurt feelings but Sammy Davis Jr. and his relationship with the Rat Pack Frank Sinatra Sammy Davis his white wife during the 60s and President Kennedy he really he really took one for the team on any number of occasions depending on even what team he was on. Yeah absolutely I mean celebrities are not used to being said no to any level and for any reason. And yet when they get into the political world they get dropped like hot potatoes as soon as something goes wrong or as soon as there is some kind of a perceived threat.

Frank Sinatra one of the reasons he became a Republican and went to work eventually for people like Reagan and the Bushes the first Bush anyway is that he was so offended by the fact that John F. Kennedy dropped him when the moment came that there was going to be some political fallout. So you know there's a there's an expediency to this relationship between politicians and entertainers that means that if the entertainers no longer serve the purposes of the politician then they're gone. And Sammy Davis Jr. of course who is a part of the Rat Pack had actually moved his his wedding to his his wife who was white after the election of President Kennedy so that Frank Sinatra who was the best man would not tarnish John Kennedy's image. And at the same time he was almost. Next he was almost disinvited from a White House event honoring African-American leaders and his wife was separated from him so he wouldn't be in the photo shoot all the time being given the message that this is for the greater good.

Yeah absolutely and it was it was actually Jacqueline Kennedy who sort of came to their defense once they were guests at the White House and tried to you know play a nice hostess role with them. But yeah Kennedy did not want to be photographed even with Sammy Davis Jr. I mean it's just kind of appalling when you when you think about it you know it was different times obviously. But this is the way it works is it's a question of what can you do for me. And it's kind of a kind of a one way street and I don't think that the entertainers who get into campaigning for politicians necessarily always understand and at the same again Sammy Davis Jr. became a Republican. Absolutely. And in campaign very vociferous Lee for Richard Nixon of all people. And it hurt his career so there are career repercussions to entertainers who get too political or who become political in ways that are not pleasing to their audience. You know Erin from. A bird's eye view Donald Trump has everything he could possibly want. You know I was this recently in New York this week and again shocked every time I looked up there was another Trump Tower. He's got a hit TV show which he looks at just you know

pretends it's a hobby not a major money making event for him he seems to be a great dad. His kids are doing well. He's got a number of you know no well I mean he's got a number of great businesses why in the world would he even flirt if we if we take just the premise for conversation that he was serious that this wasn't a publicity stunt that Donald Trump actually was considering running for president. Why. Ego money. I mean I really think it's that simple. And I also think it relies on a fundamental lack of knowledge of government. He thinks it's easy. That you know I think in his mind there is some comparison between running a television show and running the White House. And so if you take government as I can just bull head in and people will listen to me. Then it becomes this would be a nice thing. It would be another filler on my resume. This would look great right. And then even if I don't do it I know his ratings on his show went up. He started to pull out when his brand started to hurt. And so that

pocketbook both I think drew him in and pushed him out. It's the double edged sword for celebrities and events I mean I think even though we're much more well informed population now in terms of who celebrities are and what they do and in fact with with YouTube and many other avenues we each know we could become celebrity tomorrow if we slip and fall the right way and get there or give our kids drugs on the way home from the dentist or something but at the same time while we might think George Clooney is really smart if he were our brother in law and if we went to Thanksgiving we would all listen to what George Clooney has to say because he is an actor and says things people think. I think he's less smart than he is and they criticize him for having an opinion or for using his celebrity for things that he truly believes in. What is it about the public that that has this double edged opinion of celebrities and their opinions.

Well I think it speaks to the best and the worst of the American voter. They want to resume which is the best. Right and so a Clooney or a Trump can get some you know some traction. But you know Trump was never over 20 percent he was always second. And the moment the agenda changed right when it became bin Laden and other things like this all the sudden his numbers started to really really fall. So you know I think celebrities run a risk of running. Only if they don't build a resume. Clooney Maybe he makes some good movies. But even Ronald Reagan we were talking about you know he ran a labor union. He became governor so there's money. We opened with Al Franken there's plenty of people who got some credentials that the American public wants to see. I think it's when the celebrity runs because they're on a television show or if they leave to be on a television show. And as you point out and as Aaron just pointed out Alan in your book you know Ronald Reagan is an anomaly in many ways if I look at the SIL and Al Franken at the celebrity. World of elected officials he was busy actually building his campaign and working

on issues that he cared deeply about in California and as governor of California and even before that as early as the 1940s when he was president of the Screen Actors Guild. This is a political job and this is a job that requires political skills in much the same way that his later things did. And in that gap between him being president the Screen Actors Guild and being governor of California he was out being the corporate spokesman for General Electric talking about substantive issues thinking about them writing about them. And whether you agree with his politics or not I think you know there's a there's little doubt that he was someone who was very thoughtful about public policy. I remember when he ran in my mom who was a dyed in the wool Democrat and also grew up watching Ronald Reagan movies was completely dismissive of him because he was an actor and I remember thinking this is even as a child I was like oh that's kind of against the democratic idea that you're just going to throw him out because he's an actor. You know what I always think of that line. But Jack Warner the head of Warner Brothers studio who when he heard that Reagan was running for governor of California he said no no no Jimmy Stewart for governor Ronald Reagan

for best friend. We're going to take a quick break. I'm Sue O'Connell I'm sitting in for Kelly Crossley we're talking about celebrities playing with politics. We want to hear from you listeners do you think when celebrities dabble in politics it's good or bad for democracy. Please give us a call 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 8 7 7 area code you're listening to Kelly Crossley on WGBH. Support for WGBH comes from you. And from Leslie University's Center for the adult learner offering adults the unique opportunity to earn a bachelor's degree while balancing work family and daily life. Open House May 25th to learn more details at Leslie dot edu and from Frontline tonight at 9:00 on WGBH to. Meth abuse has had a devastating impact on American individuals families and communities.

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Everybody the hottest ones the world he has seen didn't use him. He found he had run ins on the deficit game by luck. Coming up at 3:00 on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. No one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest and than the Donald. And that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter. Why did we fake the moon landing. What really happened in Roswell. And where are Biggie and Tupac. I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly Crossley This is the Kelly Crossley Show it were chitchatting about celebrities as politicians and politicians celebrities and the mishmosh between the two. I'm joined by Alan Schroeder associate professor in the School of Journalism at

Northeastern University and author of celebrity in chief how show business took over the White House. And Aaron O'Brien associate professor of political science at you mought mass Boston 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 is the number to dial. And I mean that's a clip from President Obama at the Correspondents Dinner a couple of weeks ago. He's probably breaking up laughing because he knows he's about to catch Osama bin Laden tomorrow and it's going to be even funnier when people find out. You know that he was busy timing. I would assume the release of his birth certificate being at the dinner which I guess the attack was on Bill I was supposed to happen during the dinner time. But. It brings the bigger question is what did Donald Trump bring. What did his celebrity his type of celebrity bring to this environment in. When did he lose it what happened that was sort of the if if for the purposes of discussion we say he was really thinking about running. When did it turn for.

Well I think two fold I want to step up for a second. In that clip you played I think is so great because one of the things that really mattered is when something out I was referring to when they showed Trump when you know Obama was killing right when they showed Trump he looks like a spoiled child. He did. And that that's that idea of celebrity and a businessman isn't used to being the punching bag. But he was out there for that birth certificate and then I think the gender space changing I think was most important when bin Laden came out. The absurdity of the you're fired guy being your president came forth. But I also do think to much to the credit to a lot of the American public. So when he started to go after Obama on his education that was a thinly veiled racism that clearly he had bad grades wink wink How did he get in. He went from 20 percent amongst Republicans are self-described conservatives to 8 percent. They didn't respond to that. I was waiting for George W. Bush to come to his defense for oh to come to Obama's defense let's not get carried away

with this right come on people or get carried away with education I thought you were going to say that. That's a lot I don't think that would. I think that shows a good thing about the American public that when he went there self-described conservatives said enough we're done. We've got a couple of comments from the Kelly cross the Facebook page our friend Sue says unless a celebrity is naturally engaged in a movement like in quiet behind the scenes work just being a celebrity does not trump an expert in the field when it comes to promoting debating and advocacy. And I'm wondering Alan when we look at history there's been a number of times I was most struck in your book by the picture of Earth a quit Eartha Kitt you know the great cat lady from Batman and songstress in an actor who stood up at a Lady Bird Johnson luncheon during the 60s and broke go all protocol to challenge Lady Bird Johnson and to challenge Lyndon Johnson on their efforts at providing job training and education for

urban youth and urban men especially at the time. And about the Vietnam War. Right. Of course didn't have all her facts straight and kind of took a little poetic license with her own you know changing her baby girl to a baby boy because the story was better that way. But at the same time. You know what bravery it took for her to do that. And well it she paid a price. Yeah I was raped took a huge nosedive after that she couldn't get work for a long time and eventually left the country and began to get gigs overseas. But it shows you that there is unity there's a danger in stepping outside of your role and especially if it as an entertainer your stock in trade is that bond that you have with the audience and the audience's expectations of you and if you defy those experts expectations in a way particularly like that confrontational taking on the president on the first lady I think that there's a real risk. Remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks with George W. Bush when they made the comment about being ashamed that they were from Texas. They didn't

get any airplay any now the country radio stations. So there's you know it's a it's a double edged sword for the celebrities to where we're going to take your calls are going to jump to the phones Mike from Foxborough Mike welcome to the Kelly Crossley Show what's on your mind. And thanks for taking my call guys I really appreciate your back. I had a couple of points that I wanted to bring up you know when we discussed this I sort of look at an analogous situation in Italy. You know when you have a prominent media figure in Berlusconi and how well that's working out for them there's obviously not yours issues with his decorum lately and his. Future in his role you know in charge of Italy. But I was also shocked by the topic because a lot of people are trying to encourage and what I've seen of Martin Sheen to run. It's my impression that people don't necessarily want Martin Sheen in the White House so much if they just want President Bartlet from the West Wing and of course take the comments off the air. Thanks again guys. Great thank you Mike thanks for calling I mean Aaron. You know President Bartlett was a great president except for the lying to the public about his disease. And you know some other things that went on in his

wife's constitutional you know kooky Constitution gets in the way of a good story. But there is something about that that fatherly and motherly I think who I think the country's at a point now where we could actually see the Reich. Oprah Maddox Yeah Oprah would be you know she'd yell at us all the time. I mean I guess things she would give us things because I do think you could be Oprah and Al Gore that might be a nice thing they could yell at us and make us do homework and then we would get things. But I think part of the caller's point it plays on this idea or all of this plays on this idea of what do we know about government. I mean I'm a political scientist so civics was awesome but not for everyone. Right. And we want President Bartlett if we think President Bartlet can fix government in 44 minutes already agrees with us. But it's easy. You know every storyline pretty much got done at the end I'm reminded. It's an older movie from the 90s. And he through

various happenstance he finds himself in the White House and he's a regular guy and he brings his friend in who owns a small business and they solve the budget in two and a half hours because gosh if I read my books this way. Well please. If it were that easy we knew exactly and so I think part of what the caller's pointing to is if if our knowledge of governance and how hard it is to govern is pretty thin then a Bartlett or the persona of a Trump works. But it plays on that the more we know when the agenda changed to bin Laden. We did shift out of Trump. President Bartlett of course was played by Martin Sheen on the West Wing which run for ran for many many seasons and you know was a fairly accurate television pretrial of what happens in Washington and until Zoe got kidnapped and then I was over myself and you're listening to the Kelly Crossley Show here on WGBH. We have a number of Facebook comments Ellen basically many of them

are saying it's OK for celebrities to use their megaphones to share their opinions. But there's also some greater thread here that talks a lot about. Having better knowledge you know that the celebrity must be an expert in it or the celebrity must really have some credibility you can't just show up and say that you are for issue a Unless you've been doing your homework. Is is that a lot of responsibility to put. I mean are we basically saying to the celebrity OK you have to give up your right to express yourself on any any civics issues unless you really do your homework to do it. Well yeah I mean I don't see those things being inconsistent with each other I mean if they're granted this platform and if we are asked to listen to them then they ought to have the respect for people to be knowledgeable about their issue. And the best ones are you know you mentioned George Clooney and his efforts in the Sudan. He knows what he's doing and he's he's you know he's putting his money where his mouth is he's over there a lot.

Ted Danson with the oceans I mean there are some examples here of people who have become very fluent in the policy issues that they discuss I think more troubling is when you get people that are called up to testify before Congress simply on the basis of their name value. And they don't really know that much about it or there would be better examples that they could have brought in. I had a good a great part of your book as well was and this was something that I actually saw the news feed when it was happening was when Michael Jackson went to the White House to receive a traffic award from President Reagan and Mrs. Reagan. And just the the stars colliding. I mean Michael Jackson was at his height of popularity and was in a complete garb of Dr. Pepper Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club any pepper. He was just like a puppet. And and the Reagans were at their star power best. I mean they just looked great. And according to your booking reports it was seconds. You know a couple of minutes at best but it really was this

great part of the Reagan presidency. You know I'll never forget Nancy Reagan sitting on Mr. Xi's lap. You know you can't script that that actually happened. And it was she was a she wasn't a film actor so you know exactly how to sort of steal the spotlight. I love that picture and it's worth the listener's going just looking it up online to look at the picture as you describe it of Michael Jackson between the Reagans. Here's Jackson in this spangle Lee you know a really really flashy outfit the Reagans are dressed in black and white and they sort of knew that if they were going to get any sort of attention it had to be by contrast. But you see three kind of big egos out there all competing for the spotlight it's a fascinating moment Aaron in this world of the media attention and there's really no off off the record or off camera for people running for office anymore I mean you can argue that there maybe never was. But now it's immediate. You know people aren't writing books about what happened 20 years ago they're writing what happened two minutes ago. Bloggers and people everyone has a camera now. You know everyone can take a picture of something as it happens.

Is the media awareness for candidates right up there with with other trainings that they might go through understanding the policy issues understanding how elections happen and understanding what the role of the job that they're running for is in understanding you know maybe not how to manipulate the media or work the media but just understand what the media can can do to them or for them. Indeed. And I. It depends on what level of office obviously but if you don't if you can't do the media well you're not going to win especially we're talking about the presidency. It just can't happen. That said most celebrities can do media but they can't do policy. I also think it's important when we're having this conversation about celebrity that we're talking about three different types of celebrity one you know the Michael Jackson we're going to use Michael Jackson to look cool right. A good photo op right. Or the George Clooney or the Ted Danson. Right. On it a pretty safe issue in that no one's for the depletion of the oceans when it comes to Ted Danson.

So a celebrity talking about a policy issue that usually isn't particularly partisan. People wanted to give to Katrina victims right. And then what were what Trump was doing was a celebrity running for the highest office of the land. And so it's just interesting that we've got three different ways of talking about celebrity and to some of the callers points in the folks who wrote in on Facebook. We can ask different we can make different demands of them. Depending on which of those celebrity roles you are if you're talking on a policy issue you need to know your stuff. If you're running for president you need to have a ground work and you better know policy in all BRAMs pretty well. Ellen one of the things in your book which also comes to light. You know I was raised my parents were both both very very active in local politics you know my dad was a truck driver my mom had a variety of jobs. And in the morning on election day I'd go vote with my mom and my dad would come home and I'd go vote with him so we talked politics it was union talk the whole thing.

But one of the things that both my parents really instilled in me was the respect for the office that regardless of who was in the office whether the person was about to be brought charges which happened in Revere from time to time or grew up or if we were we were not supportive of that campaign that you paid respect to the person who was in the office into the office you never refer to them by their first name even if they were the city council or who lived up the street that you've known forever with city council or so and so and I know now when I'm dealing with you know reporters who call up a state senator and call him by a first name that there is something about the decorum of the office that has been lost. And you know in your book talking about the celebrities like Eartha Kitt who overcomes that to speak her mind. There doesn't seem to be that big a wall between us anymore. No unfortunately and even at the presidential level you know if you think about the last three presidents that we've had Bill Clinton George W. Bush and Barack Obama all of them have been viciously attacked in personal ways. And you know maybe some of

that's justified depending on how you feel. Maybe not but you really have to go all the way back to George H.W. Bush was the last time we had a president that everybody just sort of treated as the president and with the accorded the respect that the office you know has always traditionally brought. And one just finishing up with you Erin. You know who's who do you think is next on the celebrity. You know do we have a bubbling list I mean not just for president but you know we finished with Arnold I think for now Arnold's going to go back to to making some movies. Will Smith maybe. You know I have no earthly idea who is like to see run not from a bullet. Oh no no I do. Local science there stay there but you know and this and the changes to the office however are interesting especially in social media radio left and right wing radio is a part of that change. You know it is striking to me about the social media I mean four years ago during the four years for the presidential campaign social media was just such an amazing thing. You know like

that Obama was using it building an e-mail base and it was just four years ago or eight years ago. Right. Congress is on the Internet right. It does speak to what. But those connect the more closely. If I'm friends with my president on Facebook I'll call him Barack as opposed to if I had to write on stationery and things like that so it does make a difference. Personalized presidency is real right. Great. All right well I'm soo acall I've been sitting in for Kelly Crossley. We're talking about the merging of celebrity and politics thanks to Alan Schroeder and Ellen O'Brien. Alan is an associate professor in the School of Journalism at Northeastern University and author of celebrity in chief how show business took over the White House. Erin O'Brien associate professor of political science at UMass Boston thank you to you both. Coming up it's film critic Karen Daley. And we're going to take a look at Tinseltown's take on tying the knot. We'll be back after this break. This is the Kelly Crossley Show on eighty nine

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more. The new price of happiness next time on the world. Coming up at 3:00 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH. Arab Spring is a term used to describe the recent pro-Democratic uprisings across the Arab. Hi I'm Aaron Schachter From NPR eyes of the world. Join me at the WGBH studios on May 26 for discussion with experts from frontline and Al-Jazeera to explore the role the media has played in the Arab Spring of 2011. Join the WGBH News Club with a gift of one hundred twenty dollars and eighty nine point seven will send you two complimentary tickets. Details at WGBH dot org by Billy Costa of WGBH Jews a high school quiz show don't miss the eastern Massachusetts Jappy and Arlington vs. Hamilton went on Sunday night at 7:00 on WGBH to additional funding provided by safety insurance. I'm Sue O'Connell in for Kelly Crossley.

It's wedding season and Hollywood is rolling out no end of marriage movies right now we have movies like Bridesmaids Hangover 2 and something borrowed monopolizing the marquee. Karen Daly joins me today to talk about the long and varied history of how weddings play out on the big screen. Gary welcome back how are you. I'm fine and yourself. I'm good. You know today is the end of verse three of seven years of same sex marriage in the state of Massachusetts. I did not so happy anniversary to every everyone who got married this week. That's very big of a push push on the flower flower places. Not a lot of same sex marriage movies out there. No it hasn't really worked. Again because Hollywood is looking for that very large demographic not only in the United States global. We've talked about that before so what. Talk a little bit about the bridesmaids movie which I regret to say I didn't get through this week and I really wanted to see it before we chitchatted But this movie is really like tearing down a lot of the institutions if you will of of the marriage movie.

Well you know what's interesting is that it's a very R-rated comedy and R-rated comedies are new this summer because provisionally you had to have a PGR P.G. 13 comedy to make any money but people are now going to it. The guys broke through with hangover the first Hangover and now the gals are doing it with bridesmaids and Christina week I think it's I pronounce her name. She's actually she's a great comedian and it's a nice ensemble piece. Not everyone is liking the film but it's doing pretty decent business. It did twenty four million dollars over the weekend which bodes well for the film and I love that it opened the same weekend bridesmaids in something borrowed did because I would have a hard time remembering which one I was supposed to go see. Well we'll give you a little shout me when to tell you which one you need to go see you know we're going to start with a little sound from Father of the bride which is the 1950s classic with Spencer Tracy kind of sets the stage for all wedding movies. I would like to see if you worked with. Just. One. Oh my no. Someday in

future I may be a very very good general but I'm not. Who are you shouldn't've marriage was the symbol of. Boy and girl meet they get married. They have babies eventually do they meet other day they get. Looked at that way it's not only simple it's downright mean nothing. But I was wrong. I figured out the wedding. Then of course using the great phrase tender indulgence which I use all the time now I'm sure you do. Again this is Spencer Tracy 1950 and a very young 18 year old Elizabeth Taylor as the bride and it's all about money people publishing the Steve Martin remake of it but it's all about how it cost more than it than you think it's going to cost that it's much more involved than you than you think it's going to be and it's much more frustrating and was beautiful about that particular scene as it's after the wedding

and it starts off with Spencer Tracy feet and slowly pans up to him as he looks the Cheval in the post wedding. Disaster that happened and it's a classic I mean the Steve Martin ones are enjoyable right. But this is you really can enjoy them fully There's no better American actor than Spencer Tracy that's for sure. We're going to take a little scene from The Graduate which I think has has struck fear in the heart of every couple getting married when they think that someone may show up at the wedding when the when the the reverend the priest or whomever says Does anyone object. Everyone is afraid that this is going to happen. Joy think. Chris Dustin Hoffman Hoffman's character right up against that stalker line.

Yeah well you know let's let's set the time for this is 1967 this film was instrumental in kind of tapping into the side guys of what was going on in the country with the youth. I remember standing in line for an hour and a half to see this movie one of the first movies I ever saw in a movie theater. But it shows the fear of perhaps getting the wrong person to marry. And Elaine is burying as society has structured it to be that she's supposed to marry this guy. All the families in it but she's really in love with Dustin Hoffman and of course when they leave that church it's a very ambiguous ending about what is going to happen to their lives. It be great to do a Flash forward 25 years later and see them in suburbia or something of that and yes and having the same horror happen to them over and over and over again. And of course it's Kristen Wigg our friends from the book land have Ok have helped us along so thanks for that. You know the epitome of the British best man

is Hugh Grant. And we're going to take a listen to his speech from Four Weddings And A Funeral which you might want to get your tissues out for this one this is Hugh Grant here on the galley costly show. This is only the second time I've been out of a being a best man and. I hope I did the double right that time. The couple in question are we still talking to me. I'm 40 that they're not actually. Talking to each other. The divorce came through a couple of months ago but it had absolutely nothing to do with me. Part of Paula knew that she had slept with her younger sister before I mentioned it in a speech. I know. Anyway enough of that. My job today is to talk about Angus and there are no skeletons in his government. Also I thought I'd come on to that in a minute. I would just like to say this. As ever. It will that all of

anyone who makes this kind of commitment that Angus and or of made today. I know I couldn't do it. And. I think it's wonderful they can. So anyway back to back to Angus and those sheep. Oh yes everything in that you've got British humor you've got sheep you know. We all know all speeches must have water and usually they're not right you know. Interestingly enough I mean obviously if you granted a great job with that speech and he's very good in a later in that movie you see a badly done best man speech right and then pretty much launched his American career Oh absolutely Four Weddings And A Funeral and again the one thing that I love about some of the clips that we've already played is it shows how Hollywood or filmmakers have taken one element of the process of getting married and kind of expanded on that to make it a unique and interesting. We talked about the bridesmaids and I just talked about the best man. We talked about the guys showing up at the wedding to you know do they break it up bring it up. I mean if you take a look at the breadth of all the movies out there they

usually focus in on one aspect. And when I did a search on I am D.B. and I typed in the word weddings into the plot search engine over 4000 different movies or TV shows popped up with the weddings with wedding. It's it is one of those events in life. Probably next to the birth and death. The most important one so therefore we spend a lot of time looking at it and dissecting it and deconstructing it and making fun of it and. We're focusing today on weddings of white people for the most part. But there's John Rigas wedding goes through every single type of movie every community of movie every constituency of movie. And what I love too is I recently watched blanking on the name now but it was an African-American groom who is marrying a Hispanic broad and it was the woman from Ugly Betty who was playing the broad America America. Yeah. And it had all the same elements of every Guess Who's Coming to Dinner you know it doesn't matter what the culture is but to

your point. You take this one tiny bit of the wedding of the marriage and you can you can just mine it for ever and ever. And the very interesting thing you talk about the cross-cut cross-cultural thing. Think about two of the most popular movies that we've seen in a long long time about weddings. My Big Fat. Greek Wedding which was an indie film which grossed two hundred and forty one million dollars and was never number one it just played and played and played and again because of that that that that reference that we are very familiar with the wedding plus the cultural differences which we enjoyed watching. So you had this fish out of water kind of thing and the other one was my in-ears Monsoon Wedding which was a wonderful film about an Indian wedding a prearranged wedding and all the wonder that was going on that we love looking at the distance looking at these weddings from a distance so that we can enjoy the cultural differences and laugh at it and feel emotional about it. The voices in my head remind me that our family wedding was the film that I saw. So

there are thank you to the control room and they're good for Google or the voices in my head I'm not sure which one it was. Another movie though that was sort of. I love in a note from 1907 because it sort of called something as it's sorry you know I think we've all seen over the years those of us old enough to remember someone who we thought was gay marrying someone who we thought wasn't. And this film in and out which has kind of moved into a caricature world with at the time was was somewhat ground national that we've moved beyond Exactly. Here's a clip from in n out 1997. I'd like to dedicate this whole night to a great guy and a great teacher to Helen Brackett from Greenleaf Indiana. It's about to drop. And he's game. To. Get. To you. What is he talking about I have no idea. I mean I know but I'm just a little teacher in a little town. Coulter you have much more like who after only remember. That.

Teacher in trouble under siege. Are you. What. Oh. Oh oh my whole homeroom teacher. Of course the guy thinks you're OK. You're smart and well dressed. I'm going to dream and you're kind of prissy. Prissy. Course in a note with a great cast the story based on a somewhat true kind of story about a someone from a little town winning the Academy Award for Best Actor thanking his teacher who he says is gay even though he's engaged to be married to a woman. And comedy and craziness ensues. Yeah and again I think what made in an appropriate Ford's time was we were able to enjoy the fact that someone was going through a very miserable time by being outed and not really realizing that he was being outed or not really realizing that he was being gay and still enjoying that the conflict that came out of their places is my favorite people of all time he's a great comedian she did a great job. Kevin Kline is a very

very good comedian there's a Tom Selleck Kevin Kline kiss in it is and that's right that's right. Fighting Well it was it was it was very cutting edge. But it was not challenging enough or threatening enough for the mainstream of America not to enjoy the film and that with that said a lot about the culture of that and as you say in 1907 sort of the worst thing that could have happened to you was to have somebody think you were gay. And that's not necessarily the worst thing that can happen today. But it was really in some ways it also took what I loved about in and out and watching it now is the balance between the stereotypes and the poking fun in the great act comic actor that Kevin is. Yeah. I mean again the physicality of the role. I don't think that any. I think if they had a lesser cast the film would just be in the dust. You know the cut opens of history. Now one of my all time all time favorite welcome OK is Rachel Getting Married. OK. And I love Rachel Getting Married for so many reasons. And Hathaway the Disney queen and then serious actress

actually you know does a great job in this film right. Debra Winger returns to I think if you're Smith is that yeah you know Dr. Smith isn't it. There's a lot of it that was improv. It's the story of Rachel the sister who's going to be the maid of honor who's just gotten out of drug rehab. The troubled sister returning for the wedding. We're going to take a listen to Rachel's really tortured toast here. I would like to thank you all for coming and welcome you even though I haven't seen most of you since my latest stretch in the big house. But you all look fabulous. So during the 20 minutes or so that I was not in the hole for making a shiv out of my tooth brush I actually did participate in the infamous 12 step program 12 steps step change to change. Still waiting for the change part. So but you know as they say that. Relapse is an almost always inevitable part of recovery. So I get high marks in that mode.

I still feel bad when I hear. I mean it's great in that I get uncomfortable every time I watch this film or hear that part of the toast. Again this is one of the things that Hollywood does with these films. They want to bring the tension together because when you get families together it's like why there's so many Thanksgiving films. You get all these disparate characters who are know each other so well and in that knowledge know how to really get to them and sing and a wedding is a perfect example because everyone has to be invited. So you've got all the elements for a great dramatic tension and hopefully a little comedy tossed in there. The great thing about I found about Rachel Getting Married which was a demi film Johnson Demi film right was that it really was a great snapshot of where society is today in terms of race and class status. And those weren't the driving stories you know that there were white people married to black people and class issues about just mixing in there but it was just as it is it wasn't

the big story the story was the tension. Of Rachel returning and between she and her sister and the father and then you know it was just great. Well that's another good point because all you have to do is take a look at a wedding film from the 30s and you will see where we were what our thinking was at that time. Again snatches you take a look at it happened one night. It's all about someone avoiding getting married which later shows up in Runaway Bride many many years later. Take a look at my Man Godfrey. And here's a dingbat girl going after a guy where the final line in the movie is when they're getting married says don't worry Godfrey this won't hurt a bit for sure. Now one of my favorite movies and I can't for the life of me tell you why. It is 27 Dresses we're going I can tell you when you OK OK take a listen to our 27 Dresses here. Oh. Well you kept them all you know a closetful wife. I have a lot of friends and I like to keep them. Well it makes complete sense because

they're so beautiful. Some of them are not that bad. Not that bad. I'd like to see one of them. It's not that bad. This one is really horrible and I was the word you're looking for. What color is this vomit. No we didn't. It's in all of the green it's very en And I'm telling you it looks great on. No I'm telling you that this is an instrument of torture inflicted on you by a bride who want you to look ugly. That of course is Katherine Heigl from Grey's Anatomy and one of her big movie she is a bridesmaid 27 times and she's kept all 27 dresses because she believes that you can wear it anyway. Thanks I think they might once only once was I in a wedding so the whole culture of this to me is always a little foreign but I love this movie. Well there's a couple of reasons but I let's let's just talk about the dress just for a second. We have a cultural cliche right about the bridesmaids dress being able to be used and many different ways and it shows up all the time here is taken to extreme. So we kind of

love the cynicism of it. The other thing is there is a heavy load of cynicism running through this movie which I think is one of reasons why you like James Marsden the character that you the male character you're just hearing talking to there or listening to. Is somebody who is a society writer who everyone is drunk wants to get to write about their wedding yet he is so disdainful of the entire process. And here is a woman who is so afraid of upsetting anybody by throwing away the dress and the two of them meet and have a courtship and in that courtship they get out of their cynicism. I'm just such a romantic at heart. We all are I know. Any movies we're missing that you want to know. Well I like Princess Bride Yes because I love Peter Cook when he's up there as the priest and he can't. He mumbles through everything and it's a wonderful little bit my Man Godfrey is another one that I like Mamma Mia. The Wedding Singer. Let's see what else is there. Oh one of the best wedding scenes and all the movies

which is not a comedy. The opening sequence in The Godfather is a great great wedding scene which sets the entire tone for the Shakespearean drama that unfolds with The Godfather. Well there's some great it's a great season if you don't feel like going the Wedding Crashers another great movie and I love you know what another one I love I love the wedding scene and the African Queen. Yes we're Charlie Ono and Rosie get married on the boat. And they're so cute as this middle aged couple who are just about ready to be executed but need to get married. It's important on your To Do list again I was right. Well it's June of course coming up by the weather. Apparently it'll be 90 degrees any minute if you're not going to any wedding. Look at some of these movies enjoy yourself or write your own. Get up on YouTube Carol review it for you. Karen Daly thank you so much for joining us. We've been talking about the big day on the big screen with our film contributor film critic Karen daily. I'm Sue O'Connell I've been in for Kelly Crossley Kelly will be back tomorrow. The Kellie Crossley Show is a production of WGBH radio Boston NPR station for news

and culture.