Pantechnicon; Redbook Sexuality

I think. A few months ago a Redbook magazine invited their readers to participate in a survey on sexuality. Tonight on we'll talk with two editors of Redbook for an in-depth look at that survey. Good evening. And I'm Eleanor stout. Privatizers and generally for people in the entertainment business. There's always been a simple understanding that sex sells and so the picture's a little with the stereotype. Beautiful voice or beautiful body. And there is the stereotyped sexy voice in some circles there is a belief that this is changing. Hence the redbook survey in which the magazine asked its primarily female readership to participate. John cops of Santa Monica California public station Casey R.W. recently

interviewed him 11 senior article editor of Redbook and Robert Levin another articles editor. Reporter cops first want to know why the survey was started primarily to. Get some kind of evidence from women not from women who will go into a psychologist a psycho therapist to help women in general to find out how they saw the sexual experience in the 1970s because the last time they were really checked out to any degree was the Kinsey Report now was 23 years ago. But this questionnaire was first published in Redbook more or less has an article and the women had the option to read it to fill it out and then to send it in. There was no intent of all that it was so we had no idea that we would get the number of responses that we got. The dimensions and the importance of this survey only came to us when we saw the number of answers that we got we just didn't realize that this would be as

as valuable as it is. You mention the Kinsey Report made about 22 years ago. Has there been a significant change in sexual attitudes over the past 20 years since that report was made. The major change is that we talk a great deal today about the emerging scene now and about her. Her becoming the equal of the male according to these 100000 women who asked the redbook questionnaire. It's here already. Most of these women three out of four of these women give all the evidence of being their sexual equals of their husbands that is they participate as freely they enjoy it as much and they share in this relationship. Well we should clarify one point that this survey primarily was the results of a survey sent to middle class women with a college education right. And what the survey was not sent to anyone yet appeared in Redbook. OK. And these are the not so good. In general the women who answered the survey work well the

average age was 27 although the replies went up to 40 you know and there were some younger women. The women mostly in their mid 20s and in general higher income level than the average American. And they were they were they had come. They mostly mostly had graduated from high school and had some college education. There were several major findings of the report which I believe we should discuss. One conclusion that surprised me is that sexual satisfaction is related significantly to religious beliefs. What were your findings here. We have to make clear how we determine the religious beliefs of the women who answer we ask them to describe themselves as either being strongly religious moderately religious or not religious at all. So it's a self description. Whether or not this means that they attend church regularly or go to temple regularly we don't know. My surmise is that most of them do have some connection with a some

denominational organization but we don't know them we just know they feel themselves to be religious. When we compare the responses of these women we found much to our surprise and everybody else's and strongly religious women are more satisfied sexually in marriage are more likely to be happily married. And and this is the interesting part because it's its object and not subjective. They are more orgasmic as well. There seems to be contrary to the media representation of a religious woman being primarily Christian. Well I think it changed over the years. But why do you say. Well that is many do have a great line as a baseline here. When we think of religious women strongly religious women as being turned off sexually more or less that say we we don't even bother to check back with Kinsey because Kinsey 22 years ago made unmistakably clear that a devout woman which is how he described strongly religious women was neither more nor less sexually responsive and not religious women. So you see the change is not as dramatic as it seems to us from Kinsey's

time to our time. It simply means if we strongly religious woman is more responsive. But one other point we have tended to have to concentrate on the degree to which religion cripples sexual response and that's still true. You see I have a great many people. A rigid traditional orthodox sexual approach destroys the capacity to respond so we're not denying that. All we're saying is that we tended to think of that as the only influence of religion on sexuality. And in the past 10 years has changed dramatically and really for Christians and Jews alike. You have a new approach to the sexual relationship between a man and a woman. Well that contrary to the way they used their most ministers now are. Advocating a good sexual relationship between man and wife right. Yeah I think it's very good for business because if you want to keep a family together you better give husband wife good reasons for wanting to stay together. And I can't think of a better one than a good sexual

relationship. But Amy you have another point do you think it is very important in this in terms of the acceptance of you think that we need this woman when we tend to accept things differently. Well I think that you find it. There are certain values there's a certain way of life that goes along with religious conviction. The church and and religion places a great emphasis on the sanctity of the home. And these women grow up expecting that they'll be married that they will have certain responsibilities to their husbands to their children. And and they've made their choice and they're not likely to be questioning it. While the non-religious women are searching they're ambivalent there are so many options to them there's a possibility of working there the possibility of not working as a possibility of divorce much more strongly in a non-religious home. And I think ambivalence exhaust people and causes conflict and I think there's less ambivalence.

So. The religious. One loyalty one made to the others. Matter of fact with a release you know if you feel as if your husband is the only game in town then he's going to look a little better to you going to work to make him look a little better to you you're going to work to look a little better to him than that if you feel that if this doesn't work out look at another interesting conclusion somewhat related to this is that seven out of 10 women find sex with their husbands as good or very good. This is another point that seems to be contrary to the picture painted for us by the media. Well I think. I think what what happened in the media and in books and publications in the past year the same thing happens with newspapers I mean good news is not news. You know what are you going to do you can write and say that all the people and give the percentage of people in New York that are not being mugged or I mean divorced and and and and sexual experimentation is no. And these are the

things I've done that have been written about it. It isn't only news it's also saying this. Let's look at it and could you imagine yourself selling a book on being said be happily married to people who are happily married with you could the people who are looking to buy the books I mean unhappily married ones and the people who are buying books or magazines are the ones who have problems they have trouble kind of either. People who are buying books. Oh no not on that object. None of them said that if I were to write a book now saying more advice for the happily married couple are how many of the mag Uppal need more advice. If I on the other hand say help with a troubled wife who hates her husband I have a market because all old women are going to want to mind what they can from what I have to say. There was something odd about this particular statistic that surprised me and heartened me. Very much and that was that they found that not only seven out of 10 women were satisfied with their marriages and with a sexual relationship in their marriage but that the longer the women were married. Didn't change the

degree of satisfaction. And I had always been led to believe that good marriages and relationships lost their vitality after a number of years and that people stopped caring. In fact I mean I remember when I was when I was really young myself not understanding how people could have anything to say to each other. After 10 years and clearly this is you know going to put that in perspective I think that what it means is that marriages that are good to begin with. The odds are very good that they have something to work on and will continue to be good. The others get worse and the evidence for that is extramarital affairs increased over the years as when you look at younger marriages and older marriages you find an increase in the rate of extramarital affairs for older women at the same time I have to mention one other striking finding in this area. When Kinsey looked at extramarital affairs extramarital sex he found a few women who were under 25

25 and only 9 percent had intercourse with men other than husbands. We found 25 percent and that's a stunning change. I mean at a very early stage in their married lives these young women are having affairs with men that's quite a difference. But one thing that we're doing here as we say this figure is sort of what we just talked about two hours before. Nevertheless 70 tend to be women are not having affairs but we're getting a 25 percent because it is new. But I mean it's not very high and you say hey folks 75 percent of all I am hook it up hook it up with something else here and this is done me across the board no matter how recently they will marry one out of three wives said intercourse with their husbands which was not frequent enough. I really was thrown by that I mean I went searching in those figures because I was I was doubting the figures and I can bring this to the computer and no matter what the age of the woman no matter how long she was married

one out of three said exercise without it was too infrequent. That's contrary to our social attitudes regarding who's the beast all animal was our sex lives or did you know it was also shown to that working women seem to be more prone to extramarital relationships than the housewife. Yes women who were over 35 and full time. Working full time in my life did have extramarital affairs. I have my own feelings about that. I really don't know if what I say has done has great facility but it would seem to me that when a woman is working for I mean there's the obvious. Reason that she has more opportunities and she's likely to meet more people and have more freedom. There's that but I feel that when a woman is working full time functioning on her own bringing in money that her sense of.

Value and self-esteem is more likely to be higher than a woman who is totally dependent on her husband for everything. That is material and I feel that these women feel more entitled to explore their own and and and. To explore their own needs. You know if I just take what you say I just thought of something I hadn't thought of but what if I tie this back to what you said about the religious one. What you're really saying in effect is that when that woman is out there working she feels that she has more options and can exercise them whereas the woman who is staying at home will depend on her husband for almost everything. Doesn't feel he has those options therefore must invest more herself you know my way yet because I mean she is in a way beholden to her husband all my life. Yeah but there's others who are going to join her. And they go oh I don't care. I like to take this one step further. What effect would effect of communication play here let's say a woman is working that she

and her husband do have effect of communication that they have a good solid relationship maybe to a working woman might have a tendency to expect more from her husband and the woman who's not working well working would certainly make more complications in a marriage because suddenly all there was one other thing I was going to say that working women and it seems to me that if you're talking about a woman who is a wife and a mother and who also has a full time job and who can manage all of those that a very organized person and a high energy level. So this could be someone who often OH MY simply have you know we thought it could just just be resourceful enough to be able to have an affair. Well that's sort of an aside but working does complicate a marriage suddenly their domestic responsibilities that must be shared otherwise there's an intolerable burden put on the woman. To work to run a home as well. Now if that led them to communicate more and I believe that is what you write then it's a plus that is to the degree to that husband and wife

find that the increased problems of her being at work allow them to discuss more what has to be done when what he is expecting of the other. That's a plus. I don't. Think that is what would lead them to communicate more if the wife was working. I think it can work either one of two ways. I think a working woman comes home feeling that she's got much more much more happened in her day and she feels it was important enough to tell her husband about. I mean there's just those old stereotypes and cartoons and cliches of the woman telling about what her day is and her day with the cleaners and the kids go chocolate milk on the floor. I mean the problem I mean in a working marriage or a woman can be you can come home with a feeling of having spent a valuable and interesting day and have this to share with your husband on the other hand. A woman can also come home exhausted and suddenly facing what most women have all day to do. At home which is to. Just get a house together. So I would I would assume that that woman who

faces all these other responsibilities when she comes home would be more prone to the extramarital affair that. I don't know. I I have. Well in any case what we would be doing there is speculating and all three of us might have our own guess as to when that means what there is no guess about as to do with the way that it has been and why communicate with each other whether or not he's working and that's a fact the fact is that. On the basis of the response of these 100000 women there seems absolutely no question that a happy marriage and especially a happy sexual relationship is directly tied to the ability of the husband and wife to communicate their needs and desires to each other. And most of them feel that they were communicating effectively. Well we found that guy that the women who did it were much of the religious women more likely now they would be more likely than any other invented but then I had to step out and in any case did 70 percent of these women who said they were and were sexually happy in marriage said

also that they could communicate most of the time or all the time with their husbands. But in that very same group the most the most effective communication is apparently going on as Amy indicated between strongly religious women humans. We found that along correlations with. With happy marriages that said community that. 81 percent of the women who were orgasmic most of the time said they had happy marriages. Eighty eight percent of the women who say they were able to discuss intimate feelings with their husbands described their marriages as happy. I mean that was the highest correlation. This is not really tied in with the subject in total. What I'm going to bring up next. But I just thought of and I feel it is somewhat important. Was there a tendency of women with children to stay in a marriage that maybe they weren't happy with. I we can't answer that but there was and I can't I don't think nobody has. But there was a there was one finding of God really interested me and that was that children

really did not affect the quality of the sexual relationship. I said that was the idea because there have been so many so many studies implying the contrary. But the children did the women who had children well less likely to describe themselves as happy most of the time. It effected the quality of the woman's life in just in terms of how she felt about herself. It lowered the possibility of her feeling happy most of the time but it did not change the sexual relationship between husband and wife. We got letters that describe naturally that it affected the spontaneity Erin you're just not free to it to make love when you want where you want if they're going to children around or even be children but you know that's the obvious. But it couldn't tell a fornia recently took a lot of books that oral sex was illegal and according to your report it might be 1 percent of the

women practicing the news. Just you know something that's taken for granted and this is also contrary to the x rated movies but let's remember the Wii because you see oral sex on the screen in this they build it up to something that's really. Yeah yeah I don't really need to see it on the screen. They were two figures with candy. It almost doubles as Kinsey's dinner time. Twenty two years ago I think even more importantly orchestra's something that I think is very important here as far as I'm concerned this is not my original thought but there is a sex therapist who's very well-known Dr. Caplan in New York and she she has strong conviction based on her years of work with women who have trouble bisexual lack of responsiveness has a strong feeling that for some women this kind of play this kind of sex play is crucial to the ability to respond orgasmically. And I believe that what these figures tell us is that in them and I would talk about husbands and wives all men and women in committed relationships that

in these circumstances oral sex oral sex play is a tremendously helpful factor in a sexual relationship. I have a feeling about why I and I just heard as you were saying. Because well I'll speak about her woman's point of view but I think if a woman feel that. That her body can that she can value her five years later her husband you know find something that that obviously is is is is lovely and clean and up to Carette then I think she feels freer about how Mr. Bond. You know I live here I'm here and I think is an emotional reassurance. WOMAN If I did I certainly had her man's point certainly is going a long way from the days when they used to burn women at the stake for making noises during sex play which is the truth.

It's got a long way since I was very young. If I was in my teens and I remember how how unfortunate it is that you know I'm not home appears and my guys my own age. How we read with the ones who really if sex was ever said to be dirty. When I grew up it was never my mother or father it was the dirty jokes and the guys I went with it was and everything around me that was on my own level. That's where the dirt came from not from nothing of religion it says don't have a mother nor a father and I think that my hope is that in today's generation that's not so common I don't know. I can only hope so. Well I have talked to some people that have attended college recently who say that painting the picture of a woman as being a whore who does. Take part in a sexual act with the one person still has bragged about to a certain degree not as much as it used to be but it still is there from some people I've talked with I don't know if that's a Cairo time a big city you tend to be so interested I think that the changes that I think you've seen and that there's sort of within your own home. The changes

have taken place throughout the country. Well there's a tendency to. I have travelled quite extensively and seen quite a few cultural differences over the United States and I feel there's a tendency when you've lived in an area for a certain number of years to think that it represents the general attitude of the rest of the United States which may be untrue. The fourth conclusion of the report there were five major findings is that regardless of age education income and religious beliefs the majority of women are active partners in such snow. This certainly would seem to show a significant impact made by the women's liberation movement. I think there has I would like Amy to talk about I mean what are you going to put out one word of warning here when we see the active part. It should not be put into the stereotyped idea that some men try to put on a kind of woman taking over the man's role. It turns out not to be true if you examine the figures carefully you find that those women who are most sexually satisfied with marriages are reported as being best. The woman shares the

likelihood of taking the initiative and her activity in sex. That's very high. It just simply means that and that who initiate it she's very happily the partner she is not. As a recipient. But she is not taking over the male role and being the one to always initiate sex. In fact in the church and the troubled marriages we found that. Where the women were more likely to take the initiative most of the time when none of the time came came the trouble where their marriages seem very stable and happy. It was when the women took the initiative. About half the time would you know allowing absolutely for mutuality and that's what it's about. It's not about as Bob said it's not about women taking over. It's just about it's about men and women sharing. You mentioned before. Well before we get to that point there was also a relationship between sex and marijuana. Yeah I'm back for the most part I think you and I know I mean you

know now when I think up and avoid going to of a small number of our respondents to the Most High. What you find is that with 20 years or younger 65 percent had intercourse and combine that with smoking grass and if they were 25 or under the U.N. got about 47 percent. And then after that it dropped or precipitous they accept a separated and divorced women and separated us from the name then when I came they came they were about the way the young women laughed. I don't think really that had to do with sex I think it simply has to do with people who were smoking crack. I mean we connected the two but I don't think it. Has any particular comment on sexuality here. I just think. Well let's go to another point here. Again I guess I have pointed my finger the media a little bit too often so I'll leave them out of it in this case but I think there's a general attitude that most people have a unhappy marriage at least that's the suggestion that's given and you've already mentioned the 75

percent of the couples do have a happy marriage. So taking this into consideration. How do you feel about that figure Were you surprised by it. Extremely extremely surprised and I was. I'd be really heartened because we find an alternative time. IF IF IF IF IT'S KIND OF THE only my of all option that I see for young men and women I mean living together. I consider a form of marriage come by a committed relationship will be considered. I would consider but I think keep in mind something very big here. I have been encouraged by as I have been if not only by a high number of women who say they have good marriages but it shows something that most people are unaware of. It shows the flexibility of a social institution. Remember the marriages you and I are talking about will the three of us are talking about having a quite dramatically different from what marriage was in our grandparents time. None

of this or almost none of this would have been true of them. The kind of sex they had reason for sexuality and the openness of it between that was a different deal. So we're talking now not only about the fact that these women are describing their marriages and their sexual acts. Good different context is good but it's good because it's good because we can do and find pleasures that our parents couldn't find in the home. Over the six years to adapt itself to because the hard Redbook Magazine speaking of cops of public radio station in Santa Monica California they were talking about a question which read. Lol. Lol.

Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol.