WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley This is the Cali cross-link show. We all know Karl Marx's quote religion is the opiate of the masses. Perhaps a 21st century update could be that film is the opiate of the masses. Today we're bringing the two together with a look at Hollywood's take on the holy season with film contributor Guerin daily leading the way we're covering the full spectrum of film history from the silent film The Passion of Joan of Arc to the full body thunderous blockbuster The Passion of the Christ. Taking in the themes of Passover and Easter from reverential dramas to irreverent comedies We'll explore the varied ways filmmakers and production houses have come to view and portray Christianity and Judaism over the decades from the big screen we're off to big gates with our food and wine kind of sewers. Sheryl Julian and Jonathan Also up next. The holy season from pill to feasting. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh. More

encouraging news on the labor front. Fewer people applied for unemployment insurance last week. A decline of 13000. NPR's John Burnett reports the numbers partially reverse a sharp jump the week before. Economists had expected a larger drop in claims but still the number of new applications last week partially unwinds the previous week's increase of some 31000. The latest figures from the Labor Department show applications fell to a seasonally adjusted four hundred three thousand. The four week moving average is considered to be a better measure of what's going on in the labor market. The government says it rose for the second week in a row but only slightly and it's still below 400000. Many analysts agree that jobless claims below that mark signal steady job growth. Most expect applications to continue to decline as economy improves. Giles Snyder NPR News Washington. The conference boards index of leading economic indicators rose four tenths of a percent in March that's the ninth monthly increase in a row. Libyan rebels say they're in control of a crossing point at the Tunisia border potentially opening up a supply route

to rebel enclaves in the government controlled west. NPR's Peter Kenyon reports from Benghazi that another rescue ship has arrived from Misrata. The rebels claim to be in control of a border post some 140 miles southwest of Tripoli. The official Tunisian news agency also reported the post was in rebel hands after three days of fighting. The claim comes as pro-government forces continue to pound the besieged city of Misrata. Some ships are arriving carrying food and medical supplies. A Turkish rescue ship arrived in Benghazi today carrying a large number of foreign workers mostly Africans and Libyan families desperate to escape the fighting in Misrata. Another ship the Ionian Spirit left Misrata with a large number of foreign workers and the bodies of two journalists Briton Tim Hetherington and American Chris Hondros who were killed in Misrata yesterday. Peter Kenyon NPR News Benghazi. In a bid to defuse an uprising Syria is officially declaring its state of emergency over. Today President Bashar al-Assad signed off on a bill the government approved

earlier this week it ends nearly 50 years of emergency rule that had given security forces broad authorities to detain anyone considered a threat. But for many Syrians it's no longer enough. They're keeping up their protests to oust Assad whose family has ruled for more than 40 years. With oil prices on the rise the Justice Department is watching for potential price gouging. Attorney General Eric Holder has released a statement today announcing a working group to focus on rising energy prices and the possibility of drivers being cheated into paying more for gas. At last check on Wall Street the Dow is up 40 points at twelve thousand four hundred ninety four in trading of a billion shares Nasdaq up 16 a 28 18. This is NPR News. Good afternoon I'm Kalee Crossley This is the Calla Crossley Show with the sun setting on Passover and Easter on the horizon. We're looking at Hollywood's take on the holy

season. I'm joined by our contributor film critic Karen Bailey Guerin Welcome back. I do it. I mean have you gotten your bonnet yet. No nobody for me. Maybe a chocolate bunny but later. Listen it seems to me that there was a time that there was always some kind of film around this time that had a slightly religious theme if not an overtly one. What happened is that you know Hollywood got chicken. I mean it's really that simple I mean if you take a look at this story. I mean some of the very first films like in 1895 there was a version of the passion of Joan of Arc. What was that about. I think it's about some girl named Joe Yeah but I mean what was that it was again it was a quick retelling of the Joan of Arc and what was and her burning at the stake obviously. But and then if you go through the history of film there were plenty of in the teens who were plenty in the 20s are plenty in the 30s 40s 50s

even into the 60s all those epics from like nine hundred fifty one thousand sixty five. There were a bunch of films the role which was the first a number of them to be in the gladiators The Silver Chalice starring a very young Paul Newman was his first film. Wow. And then you've got you know ten commandments Ben-Hur King of Kings The Greatest Story Ever Told. And then all of a sudden in the 70s and 80s and 90s it kind of dropped off the face of the earth in terms of religious themed movies. And I think the real reason is simply is that Hollywood was looking at different markets and the Christian market was just not that strong. There's always been an uneasy relationship between Christianity and Hollywood. And at that point they just realize that it's not a market they could tap into. It changed at the at the turn of the century when Mel Gibson made Passion of Christ and the Left Behind series did very very well underneath the radar Passion of Christ grossed over three hundred fifty million dollars showing that there was a huge

untapped market. Now there is a subgroup a sub genre of films called faith based films that are out there these days. But you don't necessarily see them hitting the mainstream. Now when we say faith based because sometimes that can be exchanged with religion but often it just means a little hint of something but not quite a full on religious thing. Am I right that's right and when they say faith based again Hollywood. You know how he would is not evangelical they don't like being Christian or do anything they like selling movie tickets so that what they're doing is they're selling evangelical films or they're selling religious films and what they do is they market directly to that market kind of you know ignoring the mainstream media for instance. Justin Bieber's Never say die or Never Say Never movie which is not something I'm curious to see but they did a very effective job of marketing that to the faith based demographic because Justin Bieber says in

the movie that he prays twice a day. See I don't even know that they were marketed because again you know I don't hate the radio. Another example of that is Soul Surfer which is actually out in the top 10 films right now. A true story inspirational story. And the big controversy about this film was that the producer wanted to digitally remove a Bible because he felt that it would not translate very well to the other crowds out there the other demographics that he wanted to hit. Well I want to give our listeners a chance to hear the trailer from the new film and it's brand new this is this year 2011 Soul Surfer which is based on the real life story of Bethany Hamilton the competitive surfer who lost her arm in a shark attack. Here it is. The face is you're going to have to learn to do differently. Stand. By. So we didn't take it day by day. We're. Going to meet. Again.

I don't know what terrible things happen to us sometimes it's. Hard. To believe that something good is going to come out of us. So that's seems to me to be an appealing story to everybody. It is an appealing story and it again is doing very well they're marketing it to the right crowd but it is translating well. Again this is part of the problem was is that when the producer said he wanted to digitally remove the bible it created a storm and people were saying well why I mean this the filmmaker want to do this. Why you're doing that. It's really kind of simple. Hollywood makes 60 percent of its movie of its money not in the United States but across the globe. So they're worried that if they had a Bible it was Christian then it would not translate well to the global market thus limiting the ability to make money. So let's let's let's hear that again. Sixty percent of the money is made out of this country on average on average and that's that's that's the that's the working number. 60 percent of a film's gross comes

internationally rather than nationally. But let me just say this going to and I want to remind all of us really of those big thunderous really full on religious movies that you do when you mention one of them being the 1956 classic bin her. So to me when I look at Bin her if I'm flipping the channel I see it. It's an adventure movie I definitely has a heavy religious theme but I don't see it as off putting to others but let's give our listeners a hint from this is from the trailer for the 1956 classic bin her. The Emperor is what she was trying to say oh I need to assume. Because she wouldn't. Use God only God is our freedom our army. There was only one way I would see in the world today look to the west today. You're. Right. All right so now that's that's really I mean you know I think when I first saw it it was marketed as an action movie I don't even know that I got into the other part of it until I got into it.

Yeah. Yeah I mean I get a good epic film. It's going to have lots of these elements to it I mean take a look at Lord Of The Rings Lord Of The Rings is all about good and evil. That's true. OK. So it's all they've done is they just kind of just you know move away from religion into myth. And it's so much easier for Hollywood to deal with myth rather than religion at this particular point in time although again you know you take a look at The Passion of Christ you take a look at Soul Surfer. There are films out there that are doing very well. And there's also some art films that do very well with a religious theme. One of them being a film that I like called Amazing Grace which is about William Wilberforce you know fighting to end slavery in England and it's all about his religious convictions. So that theme of being courageous through faith is very strong within that film. All right let's listen to that piece from Amazing Grace this is from the trailer from the 2006 film Amazing Grace which is about an idealistic member of parliament trying to in the Brit

British transatlantic slave trade. With. Him a man. I warned. You but no you seem to write. That. Yes. You are. Right. Now why couldn't this be in the faith category as opposed to the religion category just as asking. Well it can be. Yeah I have it I mean I get mine the way I look at it is this is a man whose courage and his perseverance comes from his deep seated faith in God and how he sees a social wrong and fights the entire society because of that. So yes it's definitely a faith based rather than just being Christian. So let me ask you this question so if you said no overt religious things because that scares

off the perhaps the international market. Are we now moving toward even below a faith base a kind of inspirational you mentioned myth. But you know I think about Lifetime Television they do a lot of inspirational pieces which may refer in an oblique way to something bigger than themselves but not maybe not maybe specifically to God per se. Oh yeah absolutely. Think of The Blind Side. OK point out the blind side there's another one coming up pretty soon called. They may they were giants actually play a game a game on a video soon. And that's also an inspirational story. We like those inspirational stories but we do need to have what inspires people and where we are gravitating towards is saying that that inspiration is coming from some sort of solidity coming from faith. So now how would a blindside or how is a blind side doing overseas. For example it did actually OK which kind of gets Hollywood questioning

itself. There's all this common wisdom in Hollywood. They think things are a certain way. And you know the accounts are going to say one thing the creatives are going to say something else and the Avett people people who go see a lot of movies are going to say something else. But that is you know that's the that's the current wisdom the current wisdom is and it's very difficult to do that. But in reality blind side does well because it is a inspirational story that anyone can understand. And let me just ask this because it's America. There are so many things that make the culture of being American one part of it is Christianity. Not saying that everybody was American as Christian as we know that's not true. But I'm saying that's a part of the culture and we export our culture all the time. In many ways. So if it's a part of an integral part of a film it seems to me it could be accepted in a larger context as American not necessarily religious. Yeah I think again it's part of the problem the that the mainstream media or the

mainstream country you know cultural effort gets going on out there has a hard time understanding what is America. And when we're taking these snapshots through film we're just seeing one segment of that. I agree I think that you can export some of these films as long as the rest of the story is not. So dogmatic that you're being put off by people will accept that people will suspend their belief just like they're going to suspend their belief when Thor comes out there's a God from heaven with a hammer who is going to kick some butt. You know you can't you can suspend your belief and still enjoy if the film has all the other elements that make a good story a good narrative whether it's a hero's journey whether it's a romance whether it's a drama whether it's a tragedy. So but it still requires some people in Hollywood to decide that they they can sell that then even if they're not walking through the scriptures through the film and what's happening though is that there is a whole underground that we don't hear about that's exactly right.

People who are doing that there is a distribution company called cloud 10 which does nothing but direct a DVD inspirational Christian films. And there are several companies like that. I mentioned the Left Behind series was huge huge a busted loan and now the film and now the film and the films and they're continuingly doing the series. Kirk Cameron has made a complete career out of playing Christian. Themed heroes in these movies. So there's a huge market out there and every once in a while a film will kind of pop to the surface like Soul Surfer or passion of Christ that gets everyone talking about the fact that there are films out there and this is what we're seeing we're seeing kind of a Balkanization of the market out there because there are specific groups who will come out of the woodwork every once in a while to see a film. It's probably not going to be a huge element of the business because still the majority of the film that they make money that they make comes from the Thor's the X-Men the Star Wars the

Titanic's the avatars. So the ability for Hollywood to make money. It is still in those films but there is still a really strong market out there for a specific demographic and that faith based demographic is very strong. That seems to me to be a distribution problem but I wonder what would happen if they decided to throw the full weight of disc to get behind some of these projects that you've mentioned that we know are being distributed just as straight to DVD that you know they didn't do that with the Justin Bieber film. OK. Well you know wealthy Well that's got Justin Bieber without Justin Bieber I'd like to see what would happen. We're talking about religion and how it's portrayed in film. I'm joined by our contributor film critic Karen Daly. We're going to let the prologue from the 1071 film adaptation of Fiddler on the roof. Take us into the break. We'll be back. Keep your dial on a nine point seven. WGBH. Going to be good. It could be.

Good. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Simmons leadership conference on Tuesday April 26 a day of leadership motivation and networking for women seeking to compete in today's changing business climate. Information at Simmons dot edu slash leadership. And from Boston Private Bank and Trust Company. Committed to helping successful individuals and businesses accumulate preserve and grow their wealth. You can learn more at Boston private bank dot com. And from masterpiece presenting the conclusion of Upstairs Downstairs. Return to the most famous address in masterpieces history. Don't miss the finale of Upstairs Downstairs. Sunday night at 9:00 on WGBH to.

Photojournalist Greg Marinovich and JWoww Silva were filming the civil war in South Africa when they became known as part of the Bang-Bang Club. Their memoir has been adapted into a new film on the next FRESH AIR we talk with them about war zone photography or individuals shot and wounded four times. Silva lost his legs in a landmine explosion in Afghanistan last fall. Joining us. This afternoon a two by eighty nine point seven a few GBH to the League of passionate NPR listeners who continue to advocate for public radio's daily U GBH members. Thank you for your ongoing support of this entire region stocked with some of the nation's most trusted news and treasured stories. Now more than ever your support makes up the most reliable income for this kind of journalism. If you've recently received a letter from WGBH reminding you to renew your membership Please remember to drop the envelope in the mail or can you securely online at WGBH dot org. Where will they go out of oxygen. I only have so many people that I can create the world and it's

not an easy decision for anyone to make. Coming up at 3 o'clock on an eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston NPR station for news and culture. Good afternoon I'm Calla Crossley This is the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just tuning in we're looking at Hollywood's take on the holy season from the silent films of the 20s to 21st century blockbusters with our contributor film critic Karen Daly. This music is from one of the blockbusters Passion of the Christ. And that was produced by Mel Gibson out really kind of outside the Hollywood system. Oh absolutely outside the Hollywood system and totally blew everyone away. And his his diagram for marketing to the faith based community has become what Hollywood has kind of you know they've they've copped to it and they use it for going back to Justin Bieber. They

said that Paramount sent out 100000 guides to churches and groups inside you know relates and they supplied all sorts of free clips not to YouTube but to God tube which is a religious variation of YouTube. So they're going out there they're doing direct marketing to these groups. One of the things I wanted to get you to talk about is that the three are themes even if there are fewer of these religious oriented films there are themes in films that address Passover and themes that address a Christian films and since we're in the holy season won't you tell us a little bit about that. Well obviously the first one is rebirth. Yeah I mean you know Easter and Passover come from an agricultural society and the rebirth of spring means a rebirth on many many different levels. And when you look at Christianity and you look at you know Passover you see that those are are part of what's going on. And then you can start looking at redemption as

part of that courage through faith you know sacrifice is a big one in Christianity. There's other things like Journey and and in the Jewish faith because they came out of Egypt and made that an incredibly long journey. There is also. Liberation and freedom there you know you start going through there's just a lot of different kinds of themes and a lot of talking points that families can talk about. There's also the sense of community. There isn't you know I was raised Catholic so we talk a lot about Sienese when we were in and religious discussions and Sienese our Christmas you know Christmas and Easter. Those are the only time certain people go to church. And it's true. And at Easter it is a really big family communal thing and you sit down for a big meal and it's very similar to that in the Jewish faith too where at Passover at the end you have a big meal. Well some filmmakers have decided to make fun little bit and have a comedic

take on some of these themes and also on religion in film. And one of the best is Woody Allen and I want our listeners to hear this from the Woody Allen classic Annie Hall which I actually forgot the same in the scene in Woody Allen's character Alvey who is Jewish is having Easter supper with Annie Hall and her family and he's commenting on his straight to camera. At first you'll hear a little bit of the family talking then you'll hear Woody Allen commenting on what he observes. And I time this year my grammy always does the chicken great sauce. It is it's dynamite. I went over to the sloppy anagram and I got some nice picture frames and his mother was really beautiful and you know talk and she want meet some vocations and you only need the end of the table. Is it classic and I really like American you know very healthy you know like they never get sick or anything. Nothing like my family.

The film goes on to have a split screen where he has a scene of Passover with his family. That's very funny as well. And there's a very important point in that extended scene where the mother and haws mother is talking to the singer's mother and says they say so what are you talking what are you doing where we're toning What are you telling for we don't know. It says something about the modernity of families getting together. We're doing this cultural right. But we don't quite know why we're doing it which I think is probably a little over the top because then again it is about atonement for our sins or atonement for our transgressions. A part of that rebirth again going on where this is the time for us to say OK we're going to turn over a new leaf. We're going to have a second act and that second act in film is all over the place I mean you take it to its right just about any film you can look at there there's always a second if someone gets redeemed. So that concept of redemption in film is very very broad.

Just not one with religion if they can help it these days. Yeah. What I know is that any hall and Ben-Hur and some of the others that we played Amazing Grace is one of the most recent 2006. I mean you can see the progression of Hollywood running away from these themes I mean early on Mormon now hard to find them. And I think making fun is always a delicate kind of thing when you talk start talking about making fun. I point to Bill Maher's film religiosity which was supposed to be a social satire in a lot of people just flat out offended. Right. Yeah and that's the problem that you have when you when you approach something on a comedic level if you miss or you missed the audience then you're left with something that everyone is angry about. Well one film that I thought did not miss and which was hilarious and I was just telling my producer Chelsea today she's got to watch it. This is from the 2003 comedy Bruce Almighty starring Jim Carrey and Morgan Freeman as got somebody picking on you I don't want to hear. We're not doing it.

You must be Bruce who are you. I am God. OK how many fingers in my hole. Seven was been doing a lot of complaining about me because you think you can do better so here's your chance. When you leave this building will be unwound. Look at me very very Jim Carey. I love the fact that Morgan Freeman is God I mean how can you look. Yeah but again you know that's a film that works because it's really very gentle. It really is and what it does is it doesn't make fun of religion per se it makes fun of one man's foibles when he is constantly complaining that it's somebody else's fault. So there's a really interesting moral underpinning to the film. I also have to say that you know the film has a serious point because if you

if the for those of you have seen it I'm not going to I'm sorry I'm blowing it for those of you having a little boy alert at some point he realizes that part of the job is really answering people's prayers. Right he's overwhelmed by that right to know that that he's having fun using all the powers. And then Morgan Freeman says hey part of being God is you've got to listen these prayers and figure out what's what you going to do. There's a responsibility there. I mean I thought that you so you had to the overall thing is very funny but it has a message in it as well. And this film I looked it up made a lot of money. So Holly what are you listening. To carry on the forty two million dollars that's domestically. Yeah yeah that's right and overseas more. Yeah I mean again you know there are films that are going to break up. There is a almost an orthodoxy when it comes to Hollywood's thinking. And it's not necessarily accurate but it's how they think. And it is a very insular world. Hollywood is a very insular world. And whenever something happens that they kind of like throw up their hands say who knew who knew. Well if you kind of look around you would have known what would you recommend for

any film that has kind of a religious theme during holy season. For I mean you know anybody just look at one example. Yeah I definitely like Amazing Grace because I do like that one. Again I like Ben-Hur. There is another variation I think is a pretty good family film and that's the first Narnia film Chronicle here which has a lot of the themes of Christianity in it so that's actually a pretty good one for a family to the kind of discuss these qualities of redemption and reaffirming of life. What I let you know that did not. I saw that movie and I thought oh this is great. It was only after I read the reviews and I was like oh there's a religious thing. So some of us did. Get it on the front on the front end. But it was very interesting. Yeah I mean again there are so many of them that I like. I mean some of the early 50 ones 1950s are just not that good. They really have not aged well.

The role which is with Richard Burton is all about a man who ends up with the robe of Christ after he dies. And it's him coming to grips and understanding that there's a barrage us with Anthony Quinn in the 60s where he plays Barabas And if you remember the story about Robin Roberts was the criminal where punches Pilar said you can either have bravos or you're going to have or you can kill Jesus Christ which one do you want. And they said give us Barrabas. So Jesus was executed. I mean think Quinn is good in that but it's still they don't age all that well because the overt ness of the religious theme kind of holds it down from some of the other themes. One of the things I have to put on the table before we close our conversation is that there is a lot of religious making fun of him and what I would call black films right on the border of blaxploitation which I'm not fond of personally. I mean faith is really big an African-American families and I've not seen it portrayed well except with the Whitney Houston film the Christmas movie and what you and the preacher's

wife write which was a remake of the but other than that you know you really don't see it played out in a respectful way in my opinion. Again I would say that's been probably for a go overseas absolutely when I was overseas and one of it is a black issue in Hollywood where they're still uncomfortable with that. Again they want they need things that are kind of vanilla that are kind of broad based. One other part of the Easter movies is there are tons of kids films that play off of the themes Yogi Bear Bugs Bunny Winnie the Pooh peanuts they're all out there and they're on video they're not in movie theaters. So you know there's tons of kids films that are out there that families can enjoy. Yeah because if it's a kid's film it's a family film. That's right. That's all right Well Aaron as always insightful and interesting and plenty for us to be looking at during this holy season. Whatever you're celebrating whether it's Passover and or Easter we're going to let money Python take us out with. Always Look On The Bright

Side Of Life from their religious comedy The Life Of Brian. I've been talking about how religion and the themes of Passover and Easter have been portrayed on the silver screen with our contributor film critic Karen Daly thanks Karen. My pleasure. Up next it's a look at the holiday feast with our food and wine experts. Sheryl Julian and Jonathan Allsup Stay with us will be back after this break. But. Most of. The Arsenal never have money or. Support for WGBH comes from you and from the New England mobile book fair in Newton. For 54 years. New England's independent bookstore. The New England mobile book fair. Find them online at an e-book fair dot com. That's an

e-book fair dot com and from weather bees providing traditional Maine fishing and hunting vacations to individuals and families from more than 100 years located in the heart of Maine's Downeast Lakes region. Whether bees dot com or on Facebook whether be sporting lodge and from the Concord Museum featuring when duty whispers conquered in the Civil War 100 objects each with a story to tell about commitment community encouraged now through September 18th in historic Concord Mass Concord museum dot o r g. The cuss day on International Airport was designed to handle millions of passengers a year. It's two and a half mile long runway is the longest in Europe. But despite a two hundred twenty five million dollar price tag the airport sits idle and sounds like this. I'm Lisa Mullins A look at one of Spain's three ghost airports. Next time on the world. Coming up at 3:00 o'clock here at eighty nine point seven WGBH. Three composers two choreographers one incredible night

the Boston Ballet presents Balanchine robins a selection of classic George Balanchine and Jerome Robbins dance pieces set to the music of Debussy Mozart. And Stravinsky. When you support eighty nine point seven with a gift of just one hundred twenty dollars WGBH will say things with two tickets to the performance on Saturday May 21st Seating is limited. There's a WGBH dot org slash box office. By Donovan every Saturday at 3 for a session with just like that on a Celtic sojourn here on eighty nine point seven w h. Good afternoon I'm Cally Crossley This is the Calla Crossley Show. We're talking about Easter and Passover this hour and where the two overlap in the kitchen and around the dining room table. Joining me to talk about food and wine for the holy season are our contributors Jonathan also and Sheryl Julian Johnson also is the founder of the Boston Wine School.

His latest book is wine lovers devotional 365 days of information advice and lore for the ardent afficionado. Sheryl Julian is the food editor of The Boston Globe and author of the way we cook. Welcome back. Thank you Kelly. Hello ladies. I have to jump right in with you Sheryl and so that you can address the lamb vs. Ham debate. Right off the bat. Well it's lamb. And it but there are so many people in this country who don't like lamb. I want to complete mystery. I can't stand it. OK. Well I think I have to make you a lamb when everybody says it but I just don't like it and they all made it. Yeah I like it and you're a pretty good cook I say. OK. I think there is there's a big section of people in the Midwest who don't like lamb and so ham which is sweet

and and often covered with pineapple and you know cherries which I am pretty sure came from some 1950s Corp. I think you're right. And it just you know everyone really loves it. It appeals to our sweet tooth at least delicious me and a wonderful ham. The the the variation between ordinary ham and wonderful Ham is gigantic. As you know and it's cured and brined and smoked you know it's a and but a great ham is really a treasure. So now is a regional I mean where we in New England are we one way or the other and we welcome it I think we used to be lamb people and we're turning into ham so I think the whole country turns on you. OK. OK you go to the supermarket. You can see right there you know who likes what. Because the hands are just piled high high high high art like a dozen little like so like yeah OK all right.

Well is that good news for wine lovers Jonathan. You know Ham is a challenge to match to match with wine especially especially this. I don't know how to describe it this you know the Virginia style you know the giant you know spiral cut. Yeah but the glaze with the glaze and it can be that can be a real challenge to pair with wine. What I like in terms of my ham is a and I don't technically know anything about it but it's called a picnic ham and it seems to cook up much less firm and much more like fork tender. Much more like much more like ribs or is there in the short ribs as a picnic ham is typically a shoulder just as it is right. Yeah it is just so the difference between fresh ham is actually pork versus smoking. Oh OK gotcha. There you go that's why we have her here. Sheryl Julia.

Like that and something like that like if you take what you know picnic ham and if you roast that up with whatever you know olives olive oil herbs Rosemary next time you think you're going to make a savory you know then you can you can put your favorite red wine with that because the savory thing that you have done is really going to go nicely with what if you're not with really you know if you know you're not high Yeah really don't forget that. Knowing the queen know you so I know it's not what you know what I do is I'm you know yeah so so now so if you're going with a more traditional ham you have wine number one which is Riesling a German Riesling and if you go up on if you go up on Twitter and search for the Boston Wine School I posted a couple of snap shots if you want to see what this label looks like you're interested in it. This is a German Riesling it's from a wine maker named ton until I think an hour. And that rolls off the

tongue. I just. Just like I said I just love saying his name and think an hour and it's a and it's a Riesling that's got a little bit of sweetness. So now here we're going you know in parallel with the food not finding neighbors we're not fighting it. We got kind of us maybe we have a sweet sort of ham a sweet smoky ham. One of the classic people people struggle also to pair food with Riesling sometimes and a great flavor at least flavor match with Riesling is smoke and smoked cheese smoked fish smoked ham there's something about that smoky flavor that really works with the flame of chicken. Yeah it's very yeah it exists very delicious for my friends who like sweeter wines and they would be all over this. Yes yes it is. It's very noble and light and yes and it's about it's about nine and a half percent alcohol. You know a normal white a typical white wine would be 11 and a half 12

12 and a half so it's a good you know it's 25 it's I mean it's almost 30 percent less alcohol in this at nine and a half percent you know versus which is less which is big vs. a 12 or 13 percent alcohol wine. So so all my friends and listeners who are also friends and then listeners who are not friends. You're like this sweet wine a sweeter wine. They won't be falling over the ham at the table. They'll be able to converse at a long time. All right so Cheryl back to you. Sides are we traditionally sides the same. No doesn't matter or are we moving into a different space now. You know I think that the sides that go with him can go with lamb I mean I think you always have to have potatoes with with with lamb a really great thing to do is the way they did it in the 15th and 16th century where on the way to church on Sunday every Sunday including Easter Sunday you

brought your leg of lamb sitting on a bed of sliced potatoes to the baker because you don't have an oven. You know if you were you know fairly wealthy people just had stove top burners or a fire story. Yeah and they would bring it to the bakery and when it when you got home from church you picked up your lamb and came home with your crispy potatoes. Yeah very crazy and you know all those nice juices in them and then you can do it with ham too. So Jonathan to get that you're Virginia ham Yes. That's a completely different thing than a ham if you as you know Cal if you go into the south you find yams hanging and where you buy gas. Next to the tires and those require soaking a lot is OK. Then get the salt out of simmering and then they're still fairly salty. It's a you're you're eating serious pig. Yeah you know so you can go to a supermarket and buy and get

Virginia ham sliced at the deli and that's just that doesn't even resemble the real Virginia right. Because that's that's also been sweetened. So surely there's my question where do foods for Passover and Easter overlap. Are there you know because you know there are some distinct differences in the meals but there is some overlap as well. There there are. I mean one of them is lamb. And although many Jewish families don't serve lamb anymore they serve brisket long summer brisket in the elements. Yes it's nice it's meat and in the other one is eggs. So eggs are always around in spring rebirth continuity. The round in the seder plate stipulates a lamb shank. Yes and and then exit. And the magazine rack today are delicious hard cooked with I want to see this egg sort of cross lots of cultures. This is this

is these are whole eggs and they're covered with a curry mayonnaise in the Curry Mayonnaise was invented for Queen Elizabeth the Second coronation munch. And because where we're very royal happy these days. Yeah I thought that I should make those and it's like I meet today's or eighty fifth birthday right between coincidentally and I yeah. So I love people right. Yeah you eat too right. And and there so I learned it at the court of law school which catered the of in. And it and I make it with Hellman's and I love him and I mean I'm going to say oh yeah this is it it's just it's it's. A few spoonfuls of mayonnaise and with a little dash of vinegar. Some nice white wine vinegar and a little tomato paste and a little curry. So that's where you get that nice cool color.

So Jonathan eggs as a as everybody's plate whether it be Passover or Easter What's a good egg one. What's a good egg white. That's that's all that question is too hard. I was a.. But that's me I would say rosé I would say. And also in terms of having MF K. Fisher wrote a great essay called an omelette and a glass of wine. So really in form is really the best wine and egg match. But Rosie is great. I mean this nice light Riesling would be nice with maybe it's going to be nice to get that very good. Yeah yeah yeah that would be nice with it with spice or. Or a little you know a little curry omelet I mean I could see you know you know modifying this. Also with the same sorts of flavors into an omelet that would be super super with. And you can tell us what you thought would be good with lamb. Well Lamb what I think is going to be good with lamb is is why number two which I've brought

today and this is a red wine from the south of France. It's called Maass de Gorgonio a must to Google and it's from a little town in Provo which is Mediterranean France called Lebo. And this is a I mean I think the only mistake in terms of pairing wine with lamb The only mistake you can make is going to light you know I won't hold a Rose a white wine. No you cannot go too intensely red. And in too strong when you're really pairing wine with lamb and so this is from the south of France and this is a blend of Sirach Gras more Vedra you know these these rugged rustic country. French Reds. And when you smell it I mean it's wine it's just that I love it. I mean to tell me if it does not if you've spent any time on a farm if you spend any time in the country if it does not have like like a wild

woods country sort of a Roman Also it has a very French aroma like living and which brings me to the question. Usually if you say French and wine in the same sentence that means big bucks. I mean you know these these days yeah these days it does the price of French wine is up you know the dollar versus the euro is always a big challenge going to the I mean it's one of the that's right 17. OK 17 Like I said I have I put some I put photos of these up on Twitter if you want to see what what the label in the bottle. OK. When you tell people that Iceland was that much is the reason the Rieslings about 10 OK as well and they have the the province all dishes with lamb really beautiful. In fact there are many many good cooks who cook lamb in white wine because it makes a lighter dish and then they had all of this and lots of her still on the Sprague's And it's

it's just it comes out looking as rustic as this wine tastes. It would be a lot when I'm trying to. And we talk about Olive and orange rind and the Lamb I mean there's also got a very sort of middle eastern kind of feel to it you know which is which is you know perfect for I mean you don't have to have religious faith to understand and appreciate the significance of Passover and Easter. Right. And you know and of course in Arabic culture was in the absolute sense in the Mediterranean for many years and left. Absolutely and so what you were describing before so reminded me so remind me of that. But I just wanted to tell the little story about the greatest the greatest wine tasting that never never happened. I was contacted by a church a couple of years ago to do it. They wanted to do a fundraiser you know wine tasting for their church. And so I suggested a theme of what would Jesus drink. And these were going to be all wines from the Middle

East or wines from Turkey and that that sort of thing never the wine tasting itself never came to pass but as I was researching it and thinking about you know how to you know how to create this this you know wine tasting that would relate. I found out that that as I was as I was researching in the Bible joins the scripture Jesus appeared Jesus apparently was quite a foodie and quite a wine lover and was actually criticized you know the administrators of the Temple go to his disciples and say and say essentially they they say you know look you know he eats with publicans. Republicans are people who own pubs and restaurants and publicans and sinners and publicans and he's going the same group. So essentially they're criticizing him for you know having dinner with the likes of Anthony Bourdain and he has such an even at the end at the very end of the story in the crucifixion scene you know there's a scene where he's offered vinegar. Yes. Well he's offered vinegar and they're mocking him because he drinks wine because he drinks

wine they're mocking him as a wine lover you know he calls out for something to drink and they give him and they give him vinegar. You know his reputation as a food and wine lover is already well established. So I mock him at that at that point in just. You know in the Food and Wine angle was actually the idea that when you don't like the wine some people often say it tastes like Danica it's like yeah I was like yeah and when wine goes bad that's what it slowly because you're right becomes vinegar and just you know so many of those references and there are some really bases but your is your point. Oh yeah I mean yes you refer to them specifically and not just the miracle of the water into wine but just the other you know just other instances of food and wine references. Before we leave this I want to point out and I know you would agree that there are kosher wines. We're not talking about Manischewitz no slam to Manischewitz but kosher wines are really delicious now and there are some names that you know people should know absolutely you know

absolutely and and this is one of the you know kosher wine as kosher wine is kind of at a tipping point to use the tipping point but they're kind of there to the point where they're saying look forget the fact that we're kosher you know don't just drink us once a year or twice a year you know these are wines you can drink any any time these are wines that are Israeli wines that just happen to be kosher is a natural part of their wine making. Dog Dalton is a fantastic winery out of Israel I mean in Israel it's pronounced doll tone but it looks just like Dalton on the label and reckon not fantastic. You know Dalton reckoned not to be a lot of really interesting I have a yard of Golan Heights and Joel mountain sure good ones. Oh yeah absolutely and these are you know these are big serious wineries that are making all that delicious right yeah yeah our culture is big and serious. Yeah that's right that's right and it doesn't matter what they what they decide to grow. And only only bin makers want only to make them wine and Yanick Evreux only making wine in this part of the world for

seven thousand years you know so they know what they're doing absolutely. It's got a bad rap with the Manischewitz thing for so long. Cheryl I know that you are really kind of exercised about this whole fake spring thing going on I mean here we are about in the holy season in the Holy Week and it's cold. You know it's not sunny at least I know but you're not really. It's hard to get spring. So for us I mean you know and all that really you know you just feel like yeah yeah you know I think that there is some moment when you have to put. Locavore ism on pause and just go out and have a good time and buy asparagus. Coming in from California. In my mind the plumper the better. Used to be that the pencil thin where the. Yeah elsewhere the hip happening. Yes but I think the really big plump ones are great artichokes which are. Very time consuming to

snip off every little the top of every little leaf. But you have to do it once a year. And those also come from California. I garnish the eggs today with watercress which is really I mean it's always sitting there. It's beautiful as a spring goes on. It gets even prettier and it's it's really under undiscovered practically. Just a little water cress in a in a nice salad is lovely. On d s. I know this is around here now so you got to get around yeah I was on the green right we gotta Scojo myself together once again. Yeah there are no fruits but there's nothing that will make you feel spring you're then a golden pineapple. Beautiful right golden pineapple and what I like to tell people because everybody is afraid to pick out fruit. They may be able to pick out a peach but they can't pick out a pineapple. You just take the pineapple that you think is

ripe over to someone in the produce department who does not speak English. OK I just start smelling it and give it to this person and they will put it down because you're way off by days and you can say today and and you'll get a pineapple you know they're all those tricks that if you pull a leaf out of that easily then it's right and that's because those those people who are not speaking English are likely from warm weather climates and they yeah yeah that's right. OK yes I've grown up in these OK and they've been they've grown up in the in the in the field harvesting these fruits melons for the same way. A beautiful ripe melon is a joy. A hard melon is terrible. That is true. Yes. Seedless grapes there a little pucker this time of year but but also nice and I occasionally succumb to California strawberries. I really really love strawberries and they're so beautiful here.

In late June you know if you if you can serve strawberries on the Fourth of July they're all over the markets now. Let me ask you this Cheryl because well we know there's food prices are going up all over the place and it's got to be even more pricey if you're bringing in the fruits are coming in from everyplace else because of the gas prices. So it we can expect to just pay more. Would you well you know we we pay less for food than I think almost anyone else in the world. No matter how much people want to complain I would say you know for people on a budget less less speed dial to the pizza place. I mean that home cooking always brings your food bill down. And in right now maybe it's a good time during the holiday season to discover a new grain and maybe have that with your with your.

And so with regard to the Lamb Ham debate which side are you falling down on for this season. Well the meal. Yeah lamb them. Oh definitely land OK. And lamb from a little independent market. You know a man from the Middle East who brings it into his market or a Greek butcher you you have to tell Tony Tony in Roslindale Square. Oh yeah ok. Just for instance he wrote about it yesterday if you think you know very much about is it really like yes OK yes I insist. They have wonderful lamb and that probably is a lamb you should try the thing about Ham they always I want it left over for weeks. I want to like I want to put it into a frittata and I want to make a Miss year. I just I have a million. Why can't you just buy left over here you know I don't want the whole thing that you want. It's pretty for sure that there's no leftover wine. Jonathan after these meals not in

my experience you know. Yeah pretty much we pretty much got that down. I know I'm going to I got to tell you I'm going rosé for the ham. I like the rose and I think it's a great idea and you know you were you know you ladies were talking about spring in the seasons and that sort of thing. And you know sometimes you just you just have to start acting like it's spring. You know OK. And I think rosé wine is part of that. You know just start just start you know you may not be summer but just start drinking like it is summer. You know like Zippy white wines and rosé and that sort of thing. What will be on us all weekend I think that's I think that's really all I mean I think it's really all we can do. What's on your table. What's on my table. You know I I actually was fishing in the bargain basement at one of my favorite local wine shops and I picked up some talian wine it's called Village. It's called Cup it up and it's a blend of CNG of a C and cabernet. It's usually $40 a bottle that was

in the it was in it was in the wind and rain furious and you match the food. It was you know why do you say. But it sounds like it is in the wine graveyard for tin. OK so I couldn't I couldn't very well resist it and there was a whole bunch of it so I bought a nice little batch so you know I think what we'll do is we'll just open all of it you know and then just kind of work are you hammer lamb didn't you know I would be. I I myself would be lamb but I think we're where we are you know who's going to be now. I know but where we're going for Easter dinner I think is I think it's I get it I got a gut feeling it's going to be ham. All right so you're going to be bringing this Riesling then. Oh yeah OK all right. OK all right well I am I've been invited to dinner and I I think I'll bring bud because I don't know what we're having. To be very inviting here they better have an AM Exactly. All right well we've been talking about the holiday feast with our food and wine contributor Sheryl Julian Johnson also up Sheryl Julian is the food editor of The Boston Globe and author of the way we cook and Jonathan also is the founder of the Boston Wine School. His latest book is wine lovers

devotional 365 days of information advice and lore for the art aficionado. Thank you both thank you. Thank you Alex. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley follow us on Twitter or become a fan of the callee Crossley Show on Facebook. Today Show was engineered by Alan Mathis produced by Chelsea Murphy will Rose left and Abbey Ruzicka This is the Calla Crossley Show where production of WGBH radio Boston NPR station for news and culture.