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I'm Cally Crossley This is the Cali Crossley Show. With health care reform under attack. How could this bill get treated if instead of using it as a political football we insisted that health care was a civil right. How would health care reform be viewed if opposing it was considered to be discrimination against people who are sick. Imagine a decade from now we could be in on that we once lived in a nation where half of all personal bankruptcies were caused by illness and all that years ago we were denied the basic security of knowing that if we lost our jobs we would lose everything else by trying to pay the medical bills. Today was Dr Paul a Johnson will look at what the epic quest for civil rights can tell us about the equally long struggle to provide health care for all. From there it's local made good country music singer and songwriter Laurie McKenna. Up next the body and soul. From health care to a homegrown crooner. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Pam Colter managers of a damaged

nuclear power plant in Japan have not been able to pump water back into one reactor. And NPR's Dan Charles says the fuel rods are probably overheating. The new problem is just the latest crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant overheating nuclear fuel at Reactors One and three released hydrogen gas which was vented and exploded. Although very little radiation was released. Managers have been able to pump seawater into those reactors to cool the fuel but they have had great difficulty getting water into reactor number two because of a stuck valve. Officials say the fuel rods in that reactor now are completely exposed and uncool. This increases the risk that the fuel could disintegrate and fall to the bottom of the reactor vessel. That's sometimes called a meltdown. Even then the fuel still would be trapped inside a steel containment vessel but there is concern about just how much heat and pressure that vessel can take. Dan Charles NPR News Washington. Yemen's president has fired a key minister as security forces use force against

anti-government protesters. The minister was ousted for failing to mediate with opposition parties and resolve a month long crisis. At least 10 people were injured when police fired on protesters in the capital yesterday. President Obama has more homework for members of Congress. He wants them to rewrite the No Child Left Behind Act before the new school year begins. NPR's Scott Horsley says Mr. Obama made the case at a Virginia middle school. President Obama says the 9 year old No Child Left Behind Act has done some good holding schools more accountable for the performance of their students. But Mr. Obama says instead of merely a dent a fine failing schools the government needs to take steps to make every school better in the 21st century. It's not enough to leave no child behind. We need to help every child get ahead. We need to get every child on a path to academic excellence. Mr. Lott also stressed that even as Congress looks for ways to reduce the federal deficit he'll fight any effort to cut spending on education. Scott Horsley NPR News the White

House. Rising gas prices may be driving a lot of people on to subways and buses. Art does any of the American Public Transportation Association says $4 a gallon seems to be the tipping point for people switching to mass transit as we approach this. You know where it's really hit in the pocket. Then people seem to be more inclined to to make the change. The average price of regular nationwide is over 350 a gallon. Airline pilots in India are undergoing close scrutiny after officials discovered four made it to the cockpit with fake documents. Two were arrested including one pilot with the national carrier Air India. Checking stocks the Dow is falling one hundred twenty one points at this hour. Nasdaq is off about 27 in the S&P 500 is down 15. This is NPR. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in Paris for talks on the crisis in Libya and her agenda includes the first high level U.S. contact with opponents of Moammar

Gadhafi. Opposition forces have been pleading for military intervention as government troops make inroads in rebel held areas of Libya. The high court in Lahore Pakistan's declared. Two has declined to rule on whether jailed CIA contractor Raymond Davis has diplomatic immunity. NPR's Julie McCarthy reports. The immunity question now goes before the court hearing the criminal case against Davis who claim self-defense in the shooting of two Pakistani men. The lawyer who are high court justice said that Pakistan's government did not provide an answer to the question of whether Davis has immunity. In its submission to the court Monday the lack of clarity is an apparent reflection of the government's reluctance to make what is a highly sensitive decision. Pakistan's government could face a storm of criticism if Davis walks free but by keeping him in jail. Pakistan risks straining even more deeply relations with the United States its major Western backer. And that could have implications for the fight against al Qaeda and the war next door in Afghanistan prolonging the decision on Davis's immunity however could give both

countries time to negotiate a resolution with the families of the two men Davis is accused of killing. A criminal court resumes the murder case on Wednesday. Julie McCarthy NPR News Lahore. Good news about a Texas toddler who plunged out a second floor window on the pavement. Police in Texas City say the 2 year old boy apparently landed on his head but is expected to recover. The child is being treated at a Houston hospital but could be released in a few days. Pam Colter NPR News Washington. Support for NPR comes from the NE E Casey Foundation investing in strong futures for kids by promoting reading at grade level by the third grade at 8 dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley This is the Calla Crossley Show. My guest Dr. Pollard Dunson is the chief of the division of Women's Health at Brigham and Women's Hospital and executive director for the Connor Center for Women's Health and gender biology. She's been

drawing parallels lately between the civil rights era as grassroots efforts and America's need for a similar movement today in an effort to guarantee what she calls our most important national asset health. She's a trailblazer herself serving as the first African-American chief medical resident in the history of Brigham and Women's Hospital. Dr. Johnson welcome. Thank you for having me. Leicester's We're taking your calls this hour. We want to hear from you. Do you see health care as a civil right as the wealthiest nation in the world do we owe every citizen the right to affordable and adequate health care. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. Let me start this way Dr. Johnson because I think when people hear civil rights civil rights it's become the shorthand for racial discrimination cases and of course is associated with the civil rights movement in this country. But you're going back to the to the core definition of civil right in this case saying

looking at health care is a civil right means something that is guaranteed to citizens of America. A government that's to protect we citizens and that health care is one way that we need to be protected. Explain. Absolutely. I think you have it absolutely right. And civil rights really you know we do refer to the major civil rights movement the most recent in our country which does have to do with with African-Americans but it's much broader and it is about the protection of the rights and health and well-being of our citizens and what I've been really talking about is how do we protect the health promote the health and achieve a very different level of health. And that being a fundamental civil right and equally as important how do we get there and really using the civil rights movement as a lesson for for how we might achieve those goals.

Here are some facts and I would note that you did a big lecture recently in which you really laid out the whole way that you're looking at this. This was the Alvin Poussaint lecture it's named after a renowned physician Dr. Alvin Poussaint who during the civil rights movement did something groundbreaking he went to Mississippi and actually offered mental health treatment to those civil rights organizers who were frankly traumatized by some of the violence and some of the pressure they were under at the time. I just I mean he actually did more than that and he did that but but even most importantly what he did was he organized health care for the people on the for the people who were marching. But I think a little known fact and why I think he's such a fascinating leader is that he was very engaged in the civil rights movement once the movement once the marches were over. He stayed behind. After Freedom Summer and he help desegregate health care facilities and really used health as once

again kind of that equalizing like you know used it as a lens in which we were to achieve equality across the board across the board. I want to because in that lecture named for him I want to list some of the things that you that you noted which I think we need to have in our minds as we have this conversation. The U.S. ranks thirty seventh out of 191 developed countries and health status according to the World Health Organization. We are 24th in life expectancy in the developed world. Our health system performance ranked last out of seven most developed countries mostly because of cost. And we rank six out of seven for quality. 46 for infant mortality. So those are some I mean when you think about the United States and its health care system and we've certainly heard this in most recent years that we have the best that we have certainly have fabulous physicians and experts in this in this field as you are. But yet here we are with statistically falling dead last in some instances and pretty near the

bottom in others. It's really it's it's such a I think when you say those figures I think most people are shocked. And what I would say is that our health care system has had fantastic achievements around high technology care around how to intervene in severe illness in the sciences how do we act how if we made advances in either thinking about what the risks for disease are how do we think about high technology solutions so there I think we have made tremendous strides and in fact some of our mortality rates for example from heart disease have gone down significantly because of our ability to make those high technology interventions. And that's something that we absolutely need to preserve. We need to use effectively and judiciously. But on the other hand many of those achievements has not they have not led to the overall health of the population so the rates of obesity are

soaring rates of risk factors like diabetes hypertension increasing. I think that we haven't really worked out more of the ground level of how do we think about promoting health in our society part of which is health care creating new models of primary care delivery. The buzzword right now is medical homes. But how do we also think across various disciplines and across these various areas that we know are critical to achieving health like health care delivery and public health. How do we think about our environment building safe environments built environments and health. I think that's where we have tremendous opportunity to make strides in the health of our populations. OK we're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 8 9 7 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 My guest is Dr. Paula Johnson and she has put on the table that health care is a civil right. Do you agree. Heather from Boston you're an eighty nine point seven. Go ahead please.

I am. Yeah I'm just calling one I'm a nurse here in Boston and two I'm also a cancer survivor. I had cancer as a child and I've always thought they would typically be a civil right because I diagnosed my mom quit her job. Take care of me and then a few months after I was diagnosed my dad was laid off so he lost health insurance and they went to the welfare office and they said sorry because you're married etc. etc.. I wasn't given health insurance and then I was able to find another job but they wouldn't insure me because at that time he had to care for preexisting condition so my parents had about a 9 month cancer drug bill which is really three thousand a pop that they had to pay out of pocket. So for you health care is definitely a civil right then. Yeah absolutely I think that first of all it's disgraceful that a child might be denied health care or their parents could go completely bankrupt is to pay for a cancer drug or something along those lines. And also like I know people

that I've taken care of that are potentially leaving that out because they can't pay the bills. What do you think is going to I'm going to let our guest address. Answer your call but what do you think will will move us toward understanding that universally that for everybody health care is a civil right. I think if people started to think of it in that way to education there. Free public education there are a school available to everyone if everyone started thinking like well health care should be a civil right as well. And it was framed in that way that people get OK education and health care to vote is something that everyone is given is a citizen of this country because if you don't have your house how can you become a member of society and contribute to a greater society. Heather thank you very much for your call I'm going to have Dr. Johnson respond to your call. Thank you so much. Have there I just want to say I'm so thrilled for you though that that you are a survivor and that's that is really something I just I know

what it must have been like as a child and for your family. So congratulations and also it's wonderful that you're a nurse helping too. To other to let others heal. So I think you bring up a number of very important points. The first is this issue of you know being excluded excluded because of preexisting illnesses. And in fact you know our most current health care legislation the Affordable Care Act really does a lot to do away with those exclusions and also to deal with issues that a lot of people don't even realize are on the table like gender rating you know women who are Charl of childbearing age being charged more for insurance an age rating. But you also bring up the issue of cost which is another area that we really have to focus on which is you know what is the the most appropriate use of our health care dollars so that it is more affordable. But I think the most. I'm really intrigued by your. Analogy to health and education because I absolutely agree with you.

That if we began to look at health not just health care but health as one of our most precious national resources. I mean I think we'd agree that the education of our children is but quite frankly they can't learn if they're not healthy. And we can't work if we're not healthy. So if we begin to really reframe health as a precious national resource that if we do not achieve a higher level that really the game is lost and that there's got to be this unifying I think movement behind that concept create the vision and really get get a lot of momentum behind that. And when you say a unifying movement you mean a grassroots you know talking about you know all of our politicians pontificating in Washington. Talking about something else. I am I am and I you know one of the one of the lessons I think that's very important from the civil rights movement is that you know legislation is absolutely critical so our

lawmakers are absolutely essential to change in our country. But it's not sufficient. What made the civil rights movement really move was was leadership not only from the top but from the grassroots. So yes you had the Dr. Martin Luther King and others at the top. But you had you know the Fannie Lou Hamer years and you had those at the grassroots who were really pushing the agenda. And so you had that bottom up and top down. And I think we need the same in health. And what I was interested in is in again in this big lecture that you gave in that you're continuing to talk about is that you noted that some of that has already started. We've already begun to have these individual movements if you will under the umbrella of health care. One of them is about the breast cancer movement which I think is fascinating and we want to get into in depth I want to give our number again 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 8 9 7 8. We're talking about health care as a civil right. We're talking with Dr. Paul Johnson who is the chief of the division of Women's Health

at Brigham and Women's Hospital and she says it is exactly that. And she's about to talk to us about how it's been manifested already in one movement on the ground. So when I begin there we're going to just give me a headline because we're going to break and we come back we'll talk about it further. But I think we can learn a lot from the breast cancer movement and apply some of those lessons to what we need to do for health overall. All right will play an important role in that. We're talking about health care as a civil right and what it would mean if we were to look at health care reform as a way to provide adequate health care for all rather than as a political issue. My guest is Dr. Pollack Johnson chief of the division of Women's Health at Brigham and Women's Hospital and executive director for the Connor Center for Women's Health and gender biology listers We're taking your calls where at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. What kind of care you getting are you going into debt to pay your medical bills. Doctors nurses patients caregivers should health care be a civil right.

Call us 877 real one eighty nine seventy. We'll be back after this break. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Somerset Subaru. You're invited to the Subaru love spring event featuring five star NHTSA government crash test rated vehicles with symmetrical all wheel drive located off Route 195 in Somerset Somerset auto group dot com and from safety insurance. Working with independent agents in Massachusetts and New Hampshire to provide coverage for homes autos and business. And supporting PR eyes of the world. Weekdays at 3 and 6 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH and from the hit man returns David Foster and friends in concert the songwriter returns to PBS with Donna Summer Earth Wind and Fire. Natalie Cole and Kenny Loggins in a concert special from Las Vegas tonight at 7:30 on WGBH too. I spent a lot of time daydreaming or thinking about other things of a new GBH is

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coming up at 3 o'clock on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. I'm Kalee Crossley This is the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just tuning in we're talking about health care in the context of civil rights and how it could change the debate on the Hill and our access to care. If we were to look at health care as a civil right. I'm joined by Dr. Pollack Johnson. She's the chief of the division of Women's Health at Brigham and Women's Hospital and executive director for the Connor Center for Women's Health and gender biology listeners we want to get you in on this conversation. Citation should we be looking at health care and health care reform in the context of civil rights. Do you think it's time that the wealthiest nation. In the world practically should provide health care for all. Are you getting quality care. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and for those who are just tuning in I said at the top of the

show that civil rights has come to mean kind of a shorthand for discrimination for racial discrimination and here we're talking about the basic civil rights of American citizens. And Dr. Paul Johnson is saying that health care should be one of them. Before the break we began to talk about what it takes to make a civil right come into being as in the modern civil rights movement when people took to the streets to make the laws be real. And Dr. Johnson has pointed out that it's already happening in some ways from the grassroots and one good example is the breast cancer movement. Tell us about that absolutely you know I think when we think about breast cancer we we all know the phrase walk for the Cure when you say take to the streets and you know we have a disease that afflicts many young women as well as older women we all know a mother a sister a friend. Who's had it. And women as well as men you know they were not only devastated by the disease but they're angry. And there was a tremendous amount of organizing through a number of organizations. But it really put pressure to change

to develop legislation around for example allocation of funds for breast cancer research allocation of funds for covering screening for poor women and treatment. And I think the pressure will absolutely continue. Quite frankly until we find not just a cure but we actually find how to find out how to prevent the disease. And I think if we think about a movement and a compelling vision you know that to me is a really good example. And if we think about the fact that we're potentially our next generation. Is the first generation expected to possibly have a lower life span lower life expectancy than the one before it and that is the first time that this is potentially going to happen since the founding of our country. Wow that's pretty compelling so I think what I'm saying is let's think about those compelling numbers. And let's also get angry about it and let's figure out how we mobilize to

change it. And I just want to highlight one thing one point that you made about the breast cancer movement and that is the really push to get free screening for poor women absolutely which makes the whole difference when you start looking across the board of what can happen then in reducing the overall rates of breast cancer. And not only that but it's very clear that the movement has made a difference because when you look at where we stand amongst developed countries in breast cancer screening and treatment we are way above other countries. So here's an example where we're not in you know the either the the lower half or at or near the bottom. But we've jumped to near the top. All right. Ross from Cape Cod you're an eighty nine point seven Go ahead please. Good afternoon Kelly. I definitely think health care should be a right especially in America where we are isolation claims. We get so many things right. But then when you look at the No. Really not doing very well but

I have kind of his theory on kind of the money in health care. I know that's one of the biggest problems in America. We spend about twice per capita on health care and we get the bottom of the bottom of the barrel result. I think a good idea would be to have state run schools for position where a student can attend Jewish and free but in exchange they would have to work as a doctor at a reasonable salary for a period of time four to six years and they would have to be a general practitioner in a low income neighborhood. Because I know one is arts matriculate the medical schools limit the number of slot for medical students. It creates an artificial pressure to bring prices up. And because of the incredible cost of medical school being a general practitioner doesn't help you pay off the debt. And that seems to me like it would be a boat problem. We would have more doctors doctors in areas we need and doctors who

specialize in being just plain old family physician specialized. I'm curious what your guest thinks about. Thank you very much for the call Russ.. Dr. Jones what do you think. Thanks Ross I think that you're going back to the to the old and I won't say say old in that it was bad it was just the idea of the old Public Health Service which is to provide education free of cost not in terms of a school but education free of cost in return for service in under-served areas and I think there were many aspects of those programs that were that were successful in terms of getting young physicians into primary care specialties you know family practice general internal medicine obstetrics. Cetera that went away and you know I think that it's not clear that it was necessarily successful in keeping people in those fields. So what I would say is your concept of the fact that we need to innovate

is very important. The issues of cost are very significant. I think there's a very clear recognition in our country as well as in our state that we absolutely need to redesign primary care. We need to think about What the firk workforce looks like. We need to think about models of care that does just don't think about that one by each but think about populations. But I also think that there's an opportunity here for us to really rethink what medical education is. How do we think about new models that that bring together for example medical schools and schools of public health to create new concepts of care that yes do all the high tech and create the opportunity for for all the fancy care but also create new models that once again try to get people healthy and then create the incentives to get people into into those into those fields so I totally agree with you we are facing a very significant shortage in our country of primary care providers it's a big

problem. Dr Johnson in giving that answer you listed two lessons that you articulated one can take from the Civil Rights Movement one of course we've talked about is organizing and grassroots. The second is innovation and so for this gentleman to mention hey let's think about this think out of the box about how we can both educate and perform health care services for people who need it across the board is a good thing we have plenty of calls let me go to one bill from New Haven Connecticut you're an eighty nine point seven the Calla Crossley Show. Please go ahead. Yes I meant jaded old 75 year old. And the analogy I like to use is that there's a dangerous intersection in the town and nobody wants to put up a stop like Celts. Some little girl or some little boy gets killed. The entire problem of course civil right. Many medical care is a civil is a civil liberty or civil rights and nobody has ever just ever accounted for what it cost one person to get the flu and goes to

emergency room. These will be some health care that helps this individual out. So what I'm saying is I don't see the solution being the way we're going to do this being the problem got plenty of brilliant people out there to do it. You have to get people who really control the money who want to take a look. WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. You know if you're not going to. But with the fire what with the wall and joke you know the rich are not saved any more than the forum getting abstract. But anyway I get annoyed because the rich moneyed interests are the ones who keep like you keep your guest from really being able to use your skill to realize their goal. All right well thank you very much for your perspective Bill. Dr. Johnson would you like to respond. Thanks Bill. You know I agree with you in that I think you're bringing out a very important point which is that this is not just a problem of the quote unquote poor under-served.

This is a problem for all of us. And how do we find a compelling way to articulate these issues so that it is very clear that this is just not a problem of a certain segment of the population. I do think when you begin talking about health as a civil right achieving health I think there are groups of people that immediately only go to the poorest areas in our country and quite frankly yes these are areas that we need to actually focus on. But it is not the only These are not the only places with. With problems we don't get to a health status that Calley talked about earlier in the segment by it just being that population. So I think you are absolutely right that you know if you think about our workforce for the future. Quite frankly every business in the United States needs to be worried about where we are as a country in terms of our health where we are today and we were projected to go in the future. All right well we've got plenty of callers here who want to get in on this conversation we're at 8 7

7 3 0 1 89 70 by the way. Ellen from Rochester you're on eighty nine point seven the Calla Crossley Show. Go ahead please. The comment I do feel that everybody should have. And you know I'm right too on health care. But the way that the health care reform act is written out things that I've noticed and I feel like that the way the health care reform act is it's an infringement on people's rights and it's because of the way everything is worded if you were to get help. I have a sister friend sample and she can't even afford healthcare Hardly. She has breast cancer in her her health care coverage is is the cost to be. Come down there they're in in excess of $2000 per year for a family and I myself I had. I had health care insurance that could provide for myself but when the Health Care Reform Act went in to effect. They did rates went up per month what they used to per year and instead of a bill going up to $200 per year when you have $200 per

month and. I just feel that they need to do something about the cost to make health care affordable for everybody not just one and it might even though my sister has her now has been a couple of working people to put that out is a lot in your your premiums. I mean your payment is so high to some medications they don't even cover everything at that price. Ellen I got it Ellen from Rochester and your point is hey you could appreciate it being a civil right but you can afford it you feel like we can afford it as a country doctor Johnson. Can we afford it. Well you know cost is a major major problem and if we're going to talk about a civil right then we have to make sure that that right is accessible and accessible not only in terms of having your insurance card but being able to afford it. And that's why the cost issues are so major in our country and there is a tremendous need and momentum around decreasing the cost of care. Now you know it's it's

it's interesting because you know in Massachusetts and Ellen I'm assuming you're from Massachusetts. This is from Rochester Manchester OK. So is health care reform went into effect in Massachusetts. We decided in this state to first look at improving coverage for large numbers of people and we did that. And now we're really tackling the core the cost the Affordable Care Act really has chosen to attack both at the same time which I think absolutely is essential. And what I would say is as we're focused on decreasing the cost then we should also focus on how do we use those resources to achieve the absolute best health outcomes i.e. the best health product of health for for our citizens. One of the things that should be put in this conversation at the latest poll says that people in Massachusetts are very happy with affordable health care now we don't know where they fall on the socio economic demographic but you know that's the bottom line. At this moment

there's lots of discussion about it of course. Bill from Jamaica Plain you're on eighty nine point seven the Calla Crossley Show Go ahead please. Very much. I find this show particularly interesting today and it's a very appropriate topic. I come to this conversation actually with it rather informed because it's my business as a health care technology strategist to help drug device companies get their products used by institutions and physicians as well as the insurance companies to pay for them. What I've recognized is that it really is a multivariate problem. There are lots of variables in this equation that really need to be addressed almost simultaneously for it to work. We have to control costs we have to get people insured. We have to have appropriate utilization of what makes sense. And we have to become responsible in America. What I'm concerned about is and I thought it would change with Obama and Washington when they passed the health care legislation last year. My concern is that we're really missing the

leadership that can get people in the country to understand how important this is. What we are trying to achieve as well is saying that look this has to be a civil right for all. And Bill let me interrupt you. Bill let me interrupt you to say that one of Dr. Paul Johnson's lessons from the civil rights movement. You got to have leadership so I want to her to jump right in and respond to you. Go ahead Dr. John. I think you could not be absolutely more right and the leadership is is so critical I mean you know we are missing that unifying kind of inspiring leadership that is you know not just from the top but pretty much at all levels you know who who's actually out there saying talking about the vision talking about what we can actually achieve as a country if we were to not only. Provide you know appropriate health care but also really achieve new levels of health what would it mean for us. And I do think that is absolutely missing.

All right thank you very much for the call Bill and we're going to go to Jason from Cambridge eighty nine point seven. You're on the Calla Crossley Show Go ahead please. Hello hello. Hi thanks so much for this program and I just want to say that I'm a person among many in my family who benefit from the vailed Bill delivery of psychiatric care. It's been like a major major thing. It's I guess the genes run in the family it's an affliction that like the main thing in my times my health is going to have to take care of. But I can take anything else. And my brother lives in California and worked out that he needed to stay there because of the benefits. Actually we're available for him to become intimate again his like psychiatric health stability and affairs becomes true for me in Massachusetts I'm very very grateful that I got accurately diagnosed and treated the people I trust and work with. But

I can't go to Connecticut. The care of my elderly mom first I'll have enough that I won't have a safety net then let's go on. So there's no safety net for you Jason I want to get Dr. Pollack Johnson to respond to that. Jason you know mental health and I'm so happy that you have gotten the kind of care that you need. But mental health is a major issue in our state as well as in our country I mean rates of depression are are very significant Quite frankly it's a problem around the world and we are very fortunate that our state has really looked at mental health as an integrated part of health care and I think that that is going to be absolutely necessary as we think about the development of these exchanges health care exchanges around our country that mental health be integrated as an essential part of any health care package and that not only is it an essential part but that we also ensure that mental health care providers are accessible and accessible to wide ranges of people

with which still is an issue quite frankly in our own state. But it's even greater across the country. I want to wrap up this way Dr. Johnson. You made the point that in the 50s when Medicare and Medicaid was introduced there was a huge amount of public backlash and political backlash against it. And so we shouldn't be surprised that there is now at this Affordable Health Act a lot of backlash and we can learn from that though and move forward in trying to get to the civil rights. Health care is a civil right. Explain that change is hard and it takes a long time. And but there are times when it is accelerated and we should expect a backlash because history tells us that every time you try to make significant change there is backlash. But I think we also know that frequently the backlash should motivate and propel us even even more aggressively to move forward. And I think that the backlash that we're getting around health care reform is to be expected.

But we need to keep the larger goal in mind and I would say that this is a very important piece of legislation this is going to be very important for us to implement across the country in the various exchanges. There is something in here for our country. It doesn't go far enough for many but it is a major first step and I would say let's create the vision for not only what it can achieve but what we can achieve even beyond the Affordable Care Act with a vision of what we can look like in the next 50 years as a healthy country moving forward in the world. Thank you very much Dr. Pollack Johnson I want to thank my callers for their very personal calls and concerns and Dr. Johnson's responses to them. We've been talking about health care as a civil right with my guest Dr. Pollack Johnson. She is chief of the division of Women's Health at Brigham and Women's Hospital and executive director for the Connor Center for Women's Health and gender biology. And we've just scratched the surface will be back to this conversation again thank you so much that thank you for having me. Up next it's our regular Monday feature local made good. We'll meet

singer and songwriter Laurie McKenna. Keep your dial an eighty nine point seven WGBH. With the. Support for WGBH comes from you and from the New England mobile book fair in Newton. For 54 years. New England's independent bookstore. The New England mobile book fair. Find them online at an e-book fair dot com. That's an e-book fair dot com. And from the Massachusetts Historical Society. Now featuring history drawn with light. Rare early photographs from the message use its historical society collections on view through June 3rd. Moore at Mass Hist. dot org. I'm Marco Werman Next time on the world a window into Italy's colonization of Libya.

In the early 20th century when it was disastrous the Italians left Libya with an infrastructure of roads Agricultural the villages and other public works but a terribly poor legacy in terms of a skilled informed and politically active citizenry. How Italy denied Libyans their education next time on the world. Coming up at 3 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH to the millions of individuals who support public broadcasting. Thank you. Now more than ever your support is absolutely essential to providing intelligent news music and entertainment to your entire community. Here in New England hundreds of companies stand with their employees and supporting local nonprofits by offering matching gifts. That means that if you give to WGBH your employer might too. Learn more at WGBH dot org slash matching gifts. If you missed Shawn Corcoran's recent series on wind turbines in Falmouth you can hear them at WGBH dot org. You'll also find extended interviews the debate on the future of

renewable energy and much more that's online at WGBH dot org. You're still spinning a little each afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley This is the Calla Crossley Show. It's time for our regular Monday feature local made good where we celebrate people who bring honor to New England. Joining me in the studio with her guitar is stone bass singer and songwriter Lori McKenna. She's written songs for Faith Hill Tim McGraw. Sara Evans Mandy Moore and many more. And also for herself. She's on tour with her latest album Lorraine. Lori McKenna welcome. Hi how are you. When we started we were listening to Lorraine the title track off of your new album and that song is really about you and your mom. It is. My mom died when I was little and it sort of just like these memories

that I think I have maybe people told me and I sort of you know put them in my head as memories and. And it's about it's about all that you know sort of how I grew up a little bit. I love the song I think it's beautiful I mean in fact I like all of your songs and I wasn't even aware of you before before this piece so I'm just so pleased to have you here is a homegrown talent that you are. Thanks for having me it's great to be here. So listen I got a nosy question. You've got my kid was so and you're recording artists and you're writing songs how do you make all that happen. It's you know I always get this question I think it's because I have five kids maybe that's probably what it is but the thing about my job the thing about you know this career that I have is I can do most of it at home which is great and you know I always compare myself to my sister and she works in an office and she has three kids and you know my schedule I can make it myself and I can sort of work around the kids

schedules so it works out and I have a lot of help so that you know my old this one is 21 so the big kid oh ok. The youngest is six but though this is 21. So you know my family helps and my mother in law helps when I'm traveling and I you know I it's a good job to have because I can make my own I have the luxury of making my schedule so it works and you kind of came to be known as doing a lot of local shows around town here Boston open mikes right. Yeah I started out in the Boston open mike scene and Club Passim and Harvard Square is sort of my musical home away from home and it was a place. Yeah it's one of my favorite places in the world and you know what happened was I put out this record in 2004 called Better town and Faith Hill got ahold of it and that's sort of how you know all the. The other stuff came to be because of that and listeners all that other stuff meant that she had a fake appearance on Oprah. So that was good too. You know recording contract and now you've pulled back from that you're totally independent you're right managing yourself and no record label.

Yeah I have a publisher who helps me get the songs out to other artists. But other than that and I have an agent that books my shows but other than that you know the management and the record label and all that it was good to trial that and it was good to see where that could go but in the end you know the way I need to live and sort of have the family come for us it sort of makes sense to sort of just keep it at a level that I can manage myself. So work so good. What's the difference in writing for yourself and writing for other people or is there. Well there's a big difference actually because it's for me it's a lot harder to write a song for somebody else. Sometimes when I write with with another artist I'll be in the room and you know that's a little bit easier but you just sort of sit down and try to guess what somebody else is going to want to do is is really hard for me I have friends that are just great at that and it's just I think I'm too self-absorbed for that. The songs that people tell me are my best songs are the ones that I've just written from a completely you know internal point of view and don't worry about what anybody else

thinks. Well I think that's what I many people comment on the critics those who know more than me they were really the critics in the music genre. And for me what I was struck by is that it's so personal and it felt like you know I was right in your house or I knew you or more to the point that it resonated with me that it had its very imperfect. You know it feels to me which I very much enjoyed and appreciated got right into the music as a result of it. So what's your process for doing this. I mean you just it looks like it might be easy to look around my house and say what I'm doing but that's just way deeper than that. Well I think that it's sort of like a journal you know like a lot of people just write a journal every day and. And it's just I sort of try to check my guitar every day and see if there's a song in there waiting to be written and sometimes that happens and sometimes I could sit all day and nothing would come. But I just try to sort of you know. I just try to say I what my process really is I start to play and then I mumble a melody and I literally mumble words and sometimes a

word will pop out. You know here or there and it fits in and so you work backwards and work your way around trying to figure out what what those words are trying to say sometimes songs. I mean most of the time songs will really surprise you and you'll start off in one direction it will take you somewhere. So well I want you to play because you brought your guitar. The song that barely got on the album it's called by this town and you everything else was on and then you had to sort of you know push to make sure that it was was included there and it's about where you live. It's a I call it a I call my love song to stone Massachusetts. OK I'M SORRY I'M SORRY TO KNOW THAT SONG IS IN A DIFFERENT right. Well that's OK. Well why you're returning it do you. You record in Nashville or do you. I did I made this record in Nashville because my publishing company Universal publishing they helped me with this record and. And sort of my my producer Barry Dean lives down there and

and I wrote some of the songs down there I wrote most of them still in my living room my kitchen. I was in the kitchen I don't know why did you write this one in your kitchen or in Nashville I wrote this one started Lee believe and I swear to god I started in my minivan. And I was driving you know I live in stone I live there my whole life and I was driving my big kids in high school in the morning at 7:15 in my pajamas. And the little kids were still in the back of it you know they the little kids go to elementary school so this two Morning shifts in the morning and I was. And I was driving through the St. center and I was thinking some mornings I drive through St. center like I was some days back and forth I'll drive eight times yeah I mean track and you know whatever they do and yeah you know the grocery store is on the other side so and I was thinking about how many times I drive to the center and then I stopped at a light and I was in front of the town hall and the the first verse just popped right in my head.

Well let's hear it. So. It's close enough I think. If I could buy the stem. Shirts. For. Just. Where the. Craft grew out of the. Bag and. I was. At. The kitchen sink.

And you. See. The sleek kids swoon. Was loud. First. Big city. Buried so deep. The.

Way. To. Live. I was allowed. To. Be. On. Our I am. If I can. To. Keep. The kids fall. In the.

Way and see you are often. Seen. Beautiful. I love that song that's my guest Laurie McKenna. That's from her album Lorraine but the song is called by this town's right and it's about still Massachusetts where she lives. It was sparked by stares. It's my love song to all the hardworking people you know. But it had to translate to where I hope it does to wherever I play it feels like there's a lot of that town and other towns too so it definitely I tell you that the empathy comes through.

How do people regard you in stone or are you just a mom or used to celebrity mom or what. I don't think they know I have a different job but I think that because they've seen me in my you know pajamas one too many times in the grocery store. I don't think anybody takes me all that you know too seriously. Sometimes the kids will say something but you know for the most part like I would say about my kids you know they don't really care. You know who who have been with the weekend before touring or anything they just want to know it when dinner is you know. Yeah it's it's a good town for that I think it's pretty you know I've been there forever so everyone's used to me now. How do you balance it. I think that. The thing that that attracts me to songs that I love are songs about regular people. You know I mean I just we all have this. We all have a crazy story in there somewhere and I'm sort of always intrigued. Like when you see the mailman or whoever you see you know my husband works for the gas company you know so there's a guy out there like reading your gas meter and you know you don't know his story everyone has one of those stories and those are the kind of songs I love those songs that just pick up the regular things and people.

Well some of us who listen and wonder because some of the stuff it is very empathetic but it's feels quite personal. How do your kids and your family feel about being your son. It's funny the kids you know they they listen and they they they really they they will pick things apart sometimes but my husband he you know he listens to my songs about as well as he listens to everything else I have to say. You know how that goes he doesn't he doesn't love to go to shows because you know he kind of knows how my brain works so we'll start somewhere and like I said the song will end up taking you somewhere else. And then you know it's easiest to write in the first person even when you're not talking about yourself because it becomes I think more emotional that way. And so he sort of knows he sort of understands that I'm not always talking about him even when it seems like my. You know people describe your music as focus feels a little folk pop to me I don't know. Does a cross John rose in your mind.

You know the genres are hard because they know the names. Well first of all the names change a lot and second of all you know it really has a lot to do with the production that you put on a song. And and I just you know as far as writing I am I'm drawn to sort of sadder songs that have like a little piece of light at the end or something like that but but I'm really happy in real life you know. But as far as sort of how they end up you know what genre are you going to put them in. You know the names are tough I guess somewhere in there we call it folk in Boston but somewhere else I'll call it America and Nashville but they think it's country. So you know it sort of depends on how you end up recording it in the studio and sort of what you had on there I think. When a person is responding to your music what do you want them to take away from him that would make you happiest as an artist. I mean I know the artist does the work and however you receive it. We receivers receive it but it's curious from the artist perspective. Yeah I think that from a I'm sure everybody's different but I think from me you know I sort of want a listener to be

disaffected somehow. You know I mean I wanted to maybe make you think of something that you wish you didn't have to think of but you should think of or or I mean I don't write political songs everything I write is pretty much you know emotionally based But people people will say oh that song made me cry. And a few years ago I would say oh I would feel bad and now I'm sort of like that's good you know it's not going to make you dance this is silly but it makes you cry at least it brought something out you know and. And those are my favorite songs you know other songs that you know sort of bring out something in me that you know that makes you think. So you're definitely making me think you are perfect local made good we're so delighted dad. Thank you so much. We've been talking with stone bass singer and songwriter Lauren McKenna. She's written songs for Faith Hill Tim McGraw Sara Evans Mandy Moore and many more. She's on tour with her latest album Lorraine and she'll be performing at Memorial Hall in Shelburne Falls Mass on April the 3rd. To learn more visit our website or log on to Lori McKenna dot com. That's L O R I M C K E in a dot

com. We're going out on her song the most. This is the Calla Crossley Show a production of WGBH radio. GREENGRASS through the. Home.