Ending Human Traffickin

when you hear the word slavery you probably think of the eighteenth and nineteenth century and that it was brought to an end by the civil war and the emancipation proclamation but just this week the fbi rescued one hundred and five children and teens and arrested one hundred fifty people involved in human trafficking a form of slavery that exist in every state in modern america i'm kate mcintyre and today on k pr present will look at modern day slavery with kevin bales co founder of the international organization free the slaves dr bailes was the keynote speaker at a conference on human trafficking held at the university of kansas january thirty first two thousand thirteen it has a digital medium i just have to say that and you know i i grew up not far from here in northern oklahoma and you know well i love the little living back in england now last night i was able to stay with my family and eight my sister's cornbread and my mother's peach cobbler and i don't you know i think in kansas he just say that nobody

understands what that means to have your mom speech called so anyway if for no other reason than that i'm very pleased because a lot of other reasons why i'm very heavy beard i want to say five words about governor brownback he is an honest man and i want you to think for a moment about what it does to a modest man he goes to the us senate you know i think that it one of the greatest trial the man could put himself through when you think of the relentless wear and tear of other people's greed and self serving egos and the toothpaste machinations of the power hungry get to grind grind down and sam brownback got back from the senate one piece and ice will say thank goodness that you know while he was there over the noise of public life he heard the voices of the enslaved you're their

cry of hope and their yearning and he took that message to washington when almost no one else could hear that other thousand things he could have been doing with his power as a senator and are probably ten thousand people or thousands of people all wanting a piece of him and that power and they all and i'm just going to speak to them and there are issues that sam brownback spoke for the slaves here in iraq he was a voice for those people whose voices were strangled and silenced by slavery so sam brownback rightly say with this almost in the forty a song i did not conceal your truth from the greatest sin and slaves came to freedom and abolition is nearer to day because sam brownback spoke truth to power

i i you know i waited ten years to say that i have because ursa leaders gathered for the rest the movement of the political changes that were so important and i just always hope for a chance to be able to say that trans ok so what what's the major event of our marvelously korean and our abolitionist vessel i wanna talk about i wanna talk about the fundamental nature of the nile sort of talk about where we're going and what this conference in particular might help us to do what what excites me is that this conference is really about asking the right questions not just one more litany of isn't it a terrible problem but what we can ask ourselves what are we can enquire to make sure that we find out how to solve this problem to bring the right things in the songs so i'm to start with some background here's a definition it comes straight out of a nineteen twenty six united nations league of nations definition it's it's a very simple definition for that tells

us what's labor's about this not the federal definition it's not some of the other definitions but i like this because it goes back to the to the simplicity of human being's being oldest property about what happens when you treat a person as if they are property you can control and buy and sell in the mansion profit and you can extinguish all that's part of property law that you can you can destroy something if humans and we're pretty sure that the number of slaves in the world today is something like twenty seven million people working on new estimates all the time but it's still the number still falling right about that point now how do we get to that number thats double the number that came out of africa in the entire three hundred and fifty years of the trans atlantic slave how did we get to that number and in twenty thirteen what we know there is some support in fact caesar not clauses supporting fact we know that the population has gone from about two and a half billion when i was born to over seven billion we know that a great

deal of that growth has been in the developing world but i have to say have a lot of people do something slips asylum st augustine that there's an increased number of people that they need to look to the fact that very large numbers of those people in those populations have grown and developed world our have also suffered things that pushed him into vulnerability pushed them into poverty and vulnerability and it could be anything from civil wars to put credit governments natural disasters or you know you can point to some countries like zero yeah the congo where all those things have happened once in all the bach on was the entire population it's been pushed into terrible vulnerability making it easy if it's given your view if you're going to operate in the legal way to cast your net and bring them into slavery but of course even being horrible horrible and numerous doesn't make people slaves to make people slaves you have

to have criminals who are willing to use violence to take control of other people and that's where corruption becomes the key here is the rule of law and if the rule of law doesn't operate do you have a situation in which people can are not protected and those who abused power illicitly can use that our sticking with slavery so the reasons why we see slavery exploded in situations of conflict civil war when when the country of yugoslavia broke the pieces a lot of us were shocked and amazed just to say human trafficking and slavery just mushroom up in that on that on the back of that civil war and it's recently been in congo in the eastern congo where the wars going on the civil war there and we're finding a significant up to half the population some areas are caught up in slavery and more than sixty different types unique types of slavery just in that region called that interesting lady even though i've been talking about people being

pulled into slavery through conflict through a lack of the rule of law a greater proportion of the people who are enslaved today who are brought into slavery for the first time it occurs because someone asked him this question i got job to job and it's interesting that the people telling this story on whichever car we were usually cause at that moment and say you know that person looked a little sketchy you know i i didn't really like the look of actors didn't know a little rough but you know i don't want my kids were hungry my wife was sick we needed medicine i just knew i had to take a chance i had to take that she had to get back in the truck as we need the money that much and so they climb in the back of the truck and then the story gets diverged that always and so a mile away or a hundred miles away or a thousand miles away with that but the travel slavery

closing around and empty scattering on a farmer in a minor sometimes brutally sexually assaulted in a brothel but they've been turned it's a it's a it's one of the things i think is very important for us as americans to hold in our mind for a moment because this candidacy people who are caught up in slavery as victims who live far away and foreign countries in situations which could never happen to us and yet what did i just described something like the american dream and the american attitude that when you need to protect and support and care for your family you go out and get the job you need that's all that they just wanted safety and support for their families that's what we want to do they do what we would do if we were in their shoes i think it's important to remember it's really there but for the grace of god go away no

because we were in the same fix we would get about a drug now there is one new thing to say about slavery and that is that there's been a complete collapse in the price of human beings it's in most of human history slaves are actually fairly expensive if you go back to the deep south before the civil war the average price of an average slave was around one thousand and twelve hundred eighteen fifty dollars to remember that in at fifty you could buy a house for a thousand dollars you could buy several hundred acres of land or you could buy one nineteen year old agricultural work so we're talking about a pretty sizeable the best today the situation's changed pretty dramatic and i think a good way to show you that his choice of i found recently on them on top yankee cheer the ways as we get macro and talk more to be continuing here in the studio with my dad he

had a commodity for confidence capital management and we're also joined by brent often one of the first pictures you're going to hear well the way we've been going short on gas more recently in casting and not just a little bit wider we really like a human being stored a lot if you look at a long term charge prices are historical lows and yet global demand for forced labor is still real strong so that's a scenario that we think we should be capitalizing on my take on it but definitely non violently advantage of an asset is the endless supply of people may draw your attention to one thing that is the private equity has been sitting around and that tells me that this market is about to explode africans and indians as usual the south americans and eastern europeans in particular are an archivist and think like a bottom line what do you recommend we're

recommending to our clients a buy and hold strategy has no need to play the market does a lot of vulnerable people out there it's very exciting that's a spoof there were a couple of very worried face is right over here i was i was afraid your son was the lead and that's a spoof i worked on that with mtv in and we put that out but if i do i'd like to show it because it in fact is what you would be seeing on the bloomberg channel it we were back and they're living in a world where slavery was still legal because that's the way they could well be presented there in fact the fact is is this we have had this collapse in the price of human beings that has occurred in the last period it it does make it easy to vote we do have an increased who will potentially mislabeling more people would just depress that price and the outcome is that the nature of its slate of enslavement is not dramatically change to slavery and

slavery but it has changed some parts of the treatment of the people who are absent because slaves are now so it's inexpensive too acquire those who have no care of concern are ready to treat them as they weren't disposable inputs in an economic process not as capital investments they're not like buying a track they're like using styrofoam cups sen biden inexpensively you use them up to crumble them up throw the way people are disposable and i think an interesting way to see that is some from some of our work in nepal little boys are basically stone transport of artists in a country with very few roads but a lot of mining these little boys are carrying very heavy loads of stone up and down the mountains for delivery to the cities with david there are loads of money will seek their own body weight and curvature of the spine occurs to get

hurt nightfall some of them go off the edges of clips when they get sick when they get injured they break a leg or dispose of the people who owned slaves simply leave them one side of the road push them away to nothing because they know that they can replace them so cheaply now i don't save these boys are free now we've been doing some good work in nepal we will make its progress in that direction but that's only one part of a very larger number of children reporters in the country now that was a fair bit about just the fundamentals of what slavery looks like today the size shape the collapse in the price of human beings and so we've got these key concepts about research and policy gets an institutional change that can come out of that and i think the key thing that i want to point to that list love topics to recover is that it's novelist it's a

circle which sounds kind of far out when i say it like that but what i mean is this all those move in a circular way you find the research needs you moved through that research need from the knowledge that you acquire to it to an advocacy thats based on sound data and sound information and that can lead to so to institutional change so putting up here for example the dark figured the dark figures of his return from chronological statistics it means how many crimes are actually being committed as opposed to those that are simply reported to the police and we know that slavery in human trafficking has a very nice very large dark figure in chronological statistics because it's really difficult to identify find and identify the people who were caught up in slavery and trafficking so we know that we have us very tiny number that are actually make it to the police reports and a very large number of victims and so to the

point that we don't know particularly how large this problem really is we think we do we had no sound basis for that where you would go with that if you could begin to determine what jack barker was through cell research you could move together to see which is you know the sort of probe sneezes because i lived at washington approves approach to probe says what they can say is all told by appropriations about having those resources come around and help to change the social policy there's so many ways that we can do this direction a lot of the conversations that we had with students in second were about what is it that survivors the victims need to have to get it right what about coulson wired to do domestic violence shelters being asked to be be covering for survivors of human trafficking what what's the lincolnshire well have we ever had a track trafficking survivor since is a fundamental piece of research that could lead to an understanding of the service caps which could lead to the

institutional change we'd start seeing these people as of as victims as much as citizens who now need restoration tearful rights to their full level so waterston tidal wave of participation citizenship what about what we call the freedom dividend in some of the work that my organizations and the fact that what we discovered is that when those who have been caught up in slavery are given the chance to really act on what they would want to achieve and freedom they began to generate economic growth we've seen this very dramatically in and in india where we've been measuring it wanted to delay over stove or six years now in a very detailed way we sing villages coming to freedom that were in hereditary slavery and then the economy of that village in the region around it spiraling upward as you unleash the potential riches held back by

slavery not just as a potential to produce that interesting with the potential to consume and it sounds slightly strange to say to an american audience right we can be of consumers but of course you can build an economy if no one's buying i have to tell you when people come out of slavery consumption is not enough in a crazy way budgets and a fundamental ways so important to food for their children medicine when they need basic education a roof over their heads close to where all those things which they've never had in slavery become important and their consumption and their work to achieve that consumption drives the economy ironically we've even found that slave holders former slave holders do better economically when they lose their slaves and then because they're often local landowners are business owners their businesses to better because the people and freedom is those businesses could only ones around so that their local shop actually makes more money for them than they did when they were old

it's a it's a bittersweet irony and it's one that we really did just a little bit with a lot more want horseman that in some countries it's hard to do i'm wondering about this in this country i've met so many survivors of human trafficking in this country who once carefree first up i'm thinking of a lot of love two women who came over from west africa were enslaved in washington dc is domestic servants were a number of years they came over because someone offered them a job it was a job that included a chance to go were junior college they were thrilled with the chancellor had been great students graduated high school in west africa we are so excited about being able to get higher education that turned into slaves they stay stay in slavery several years they're finally freed and then find themselves though the government doesn't support them and they get a tv set they can't get the pell grant they can get an education and they don't get the training so that they've managed to get just enough so they can have minimum wage jobs and support themselves and sent some money back to their families you know

they knew what they wanted to climb that ladder that's why they got a screen accidentally in the first place i feel like we're making we're making a mistake when we don't make sure that those who can obviously we have a chance to get there for a while are we just didn't go to them at the bar where we never did the forty acres of the real thing is you know that inhabitants of war and whistled in the price at a much broader level we need much more work on understanding how conflict in slavery linked we know that when that conflict occurs slavery expands how do we think through how do we begin to bring anti slavery ideas into our peacekeeping ideas and how we begin to bring abolitionists ideas into diplomacy that we did not know that in the state department they're thinking hard about that in some

parts than other parts not so much but if we were to put that together we would be facing fewer problems on the back and some struggles and conflicts and often possibly meeting in advance of the caucuses on the frontlines of those guns how we judge success of the us you know within five or six things right there in the conference room to talk about a hundred more probably and this is also part of the i think that that the crucial thing that we need to be looking forward to in it when we are able to meet together situations like this clear criteria which will help us judge what is the most effective action to take to address to eradicate slavery and different types of situations nice a look back to the future on a point to something i think this abolitionist movement of today has made two word just enough that we need to look back to some things that have been in the past abolitionist movement and learn a

lesson from and in particular i want to talk about the media to zoom and graduates nothing about your history course on the civil war you've heard about immediate isn't the graduates but i want to talk a little bit about that because i see this the same pattern of immediate is an incredulous of that existed in the eighteen twenties thirties forties and fifties emerging now in the twenty four century bc the abolitionist movement that grew up with the war was what was so is it was a patchwork of different approaches and all kinds of different people and from the vantage point of twenty first century it seems so simple slavery in southern states with bad it had to be in but if you're standing in the early nineteenth century the people living then you know clear and simple solutions were very hard to find and very hard to get people to agree on slavery had

been part of american life a really long time a quarter of white privilege and that to around and most white americans north and south we're deeply racist but not surprising given the time and place some of the abolitionists also practiced a paternalistic and b nine the sort of races some abolitionist believed that african americans are inferior and they try to reconcile their hatred of slavery with a very condescending view that said well what we can do with these freed slaves if they are not capable of achieving citizenship well one result of that was a split within the anti slavery movement pass between the immediate interests and the graduates immediate has tended to be less racist more trusting of the power of freed slaves to build their own lives and they want an immediate end to sleep

most of the news is also rejected the racial prejudices that were used to justify slavery a gradual is also indian slavery that slowly they feared the economic disruption that might fall of rocket engines to the nation's slave based economy they believe africans would be unable to cope with freedom they were more ready to keep black segregated and they were really the core supporters of of a hole and we knew that the abolitionists movement which was about colonization which meant helps slaves to freedom because of the back to africa to look back and think of the abolitionists as a unified force good but in fact they were often at each of the other's throats junius rodriguez is a historian of this period and he he had this to say about that

this lingering debate between the proponents of gradualism in and the advocates of immediate isn't created a chasm within the anti slavery movement that made unified action in possible although the abolitionists were a small but vocal minority in the nineteenth century the clarity of their message and the overall effectiveness of their efforts were diminished by factional infighting within about a scary thought if you begin to look back and you have a clear view of the past and the past abolitionist movement and it's all about the movement itself ripping into itself and reducing its own effectiveness and making its own message i tell the story because that struggle between immediate isn't incredulous really the struggle between now and later i think as an object lesson for today we don't want to repeat this mistake and we have to make sure that our actions are human our message is clear

and that moves the ball where effective or effective when it comes to getting people out of slavery because today are anti slavery movement is also divided into camps the press for immediate versus gradual solutions happily the two rivals approach of the day is not willing to racist idea is really to different ideas about how you can best reach the bridge for example many abolitionists modern abolitionists want to attack slavery by removing it from the things we buy they argue that by being better consumers consumers with a greater awareness of where our purchases are coming from we can make companies an end and soon pressure down the broad changes in slavery that's a good idea but we have to be clear that's a gradual approach it a lot of consumers in this

activists way it might also be an effective approach because china corporations do have to reach and power and resources that like it or not it takes a long time to work down through an interwoven product chain to the hidden places where slaves were on the other hand today there are many twists people in organizations that would get people out of slavery right now they argue that governments have promised to do this by passing a law against slavery in every country but they're not enforcing these laws and someone for that reason has to act and they have to act right away they say the focus for action has to be where the slaves are not in the supermarket not in the blogosphere they believe that every freed slaves proves that slavery could be in the eradication of slavery is really just a question of will and

scale and resources that gradual us an immediate system today don't fight each other the way abolitionist in the nineteenth century but they don't always cooperate and they certainly don't understand how confusing and disrupting their differences are to the general public the very people that they need to win over in order to achieve their goals they also don't understand or seem to understand how absolutely essential way are to each other now i think this lack of understanding is not surprising for three reasons the first reason is that these two groups often feel that they have to compete with each other for public attention and for resources the second reason is that there are no commonly accepted ways of deciding if one strategy is better than another in that action of abolition and reputation and the third reason is that both sides caught up in dealing with a ticket with particularly urgent problems often just failed to see

the big picture that's why does this conference is so exciting because looking at this big picture is crucial the great bundle of problems that come with slavery are intertwined and their global they touched every person on the planet sometimes in immediate and deadly ways sometimes in ways that are subtle and quiet but if we look at the big picture one thing becomes crystal clear we have to move on all sorts of fronts at once and some of the more immediate and some of them are gradually now now because i think that we can begin to think of the big picture is that research we can begin to develop material for success we can begin to bend that arc of justice in a way back to nineteen fifties theodore parker wrote i'm quoting now i do not pretend to

understand the moral universe the arc is a long one my eye reaches only a little wary i can divine it though by my conscience and from what i see i am sure be used for justice the vessels of various because later martin luther king adapted what theodore parker rodin president obama has well and as they talked about the moral and both king and obama had said you know it doesn't end on it that's because it's our it's our job to put our hands on the car they ended or justice and weekend ended and i know week and we continue it because war is less but what i mean by that is yes there are twenty seven million people in the world in slavery which is a lot of people in slavery but twenty seven million out of a population globally of seven billion people that these this is the smallest fraction of the world's

population to ever be in slavery the fifty billion dollars which are estimated to be at the funds generated by slavery to the global economy in a global economy and many trillions of dollars is a drop in the economic gauge the truth of the matter is is that at no time in history has slavery been such a fractional heart a global life it's been pushed to the very edges of our global society is its hiding under the rocks in almost every country in many ways slavery is standing on the precipice of its own extinction and it's just going to take one good hearted to market over the edge into extinction i know that we can bend that arc because every piece of research we've been doing about how much does it actually cost to get people out of slavery tells us that the average globally ranges from something like a hundred dollars per

person and the poorest parts of india to thirty to forty thousand dollars in places like western europe and north america but it averages because most of the people in slavery in the poorer countries around four hundred or five hundred dollars courage i hate to say this with a preview of it right or legal or freedom human a person discomfort multiplying four hundred times twenty seven million names and you get yes sir tried to winning really thinking now i try to always find something where i have to play though is what crop insurance claims were for mostly for the wheat belt in twenty eleven because of bad weather on that same farmers shouldn't be given or probation say but the point is that in the global economy to twenty billion has not much of anything it's what human beings and in this country on blue jeans for you is what the americans in the industry took in at the box office last year

it swapped seattle's going to spend on their new tram system it's about a half the cost of the of the tunnel that boston's put under the charles river that leaks i mean you don't you know in global terms of course it's a lot of money but it's in global terms not a lot of money and we're not talking about ten point eight billion in your top of it and wanting to have the whole package so you know twenty five thirty years spread that money out not much i don't have half a billion years and if anyone doesn't like to check that i also know that we can then that are because it's a freedom did that when people come out of slavery they were going to create more jobs and more economic well being and the skipper cheer kids get education and things simply can be improved in that way and that we help them to do so they create a world which is better for all of us when slavery it's not just the reasons i know that we can because we've

learned from the bondage of inspiration that occur in this country and at sixty five we know that you know if you live four million people about slavery in the new dump them giving them no political participation no decent education no access to credit of capitalization and so forth than subject them as well to prejudice and discrimination and violence you pay that price for a hundred and fifty years were still pay in the price today for the botched an insufficient nineteen sixty five well if we make it our commitment that on our watch nobody comes out of slavery and the end lives as a second class citizen we won't ever have to pay that price and we'll know that that are banned in ways that they won't have to wait eight years for justice we can insulate we know we can do this we know that freedom and justice can roll down like water

we know that the end of slavery is not just the beginning of freedom it's the beginning of dignity of community of truthfulness we know that when the bonds of slavery are broken the human spirit is balance soaring into life and purpose in caring for other people and we know this we know we can insulate the one satellite from slavery constantly well i want to see what that looks like has so these old boys were enslaved in the fishing industry and gone on and one of our partners rescued them from that slavery we spent some time in the rehabilitation center and then the day that their mothers came to pick them up and reunite them with their families would come like this people ask how can you

how can i not do this work and i'm so happy thank you so much for your email i really appreciate your listening to kevin bales co founder of the free the slaves and the other ending slavery how we freed today as slaves dr bailes was the keynote speaker at a conference on human trafficking held at the university of kansas january thirty first two thousand thirteen you're listening to k pr prisons on kansas public radio i'm kate mcintyre dr bailes now takes questions from the audience you said it would cost about four hundred dollars for a slave to end slavery how and how would that work well well how would that be done with a foreign intelligence that it varies of course slightly from that according to the type of slavery and what countries have union but fundamentally when i say that in a way we calculated that up is that to be absolutely clear this is

not about i was just in case he was thinking the us are not saying you are getting visual thinking that means buying people out of slavery now that's not when you know when we say calls for those who do not been buying it was as if it was live is like paying a burglary bigger television back you don't do that you know that's the us has given to the crime so what that means is a nasa calculations based on different countries are we do this type of work it's not the cost of just liberation rescue whatever you wanna call it because that won't solve the problem you have to carry through so when we talk about them that cost that's actually the cost of what's normally a two to three year process so the liberation is only the first step and ages they not the most time consuming the longer ferry it is all about working with people to achieve for things a basic education

economic autonomy a real sense of citizenship and bridges the patient as a service and hard to measure but a sense of personal dignity and worth now that's what we aim all of our work is to write so that liberation may get people out of slavery within the cost most of the costs when we when we spend that takes you through that process to autonomy and education citizenship so now globally because most people in slavery actually live on the indian subcontinent about eighteen to twenty million people probably in the four are in slavery in india pakistan nepal large numbers of those people are in hereditary forms of collateral debt bondage but the costs of doing work they're actually very low compared to here so something like a hundred and fifty two hundred dollars for an individual in those situations over the three year period where as in the united states the federal government will allocate something in the order of thirty

thousand as a as a guideline figure to help someone to do that same campuses here i know that in western europe because of the equivalent say fifty thousand but most people in slavery are not so that's what it's about it's not about just rescue it's about helping people to become slaves freed slave proof and ready to be citizens yes ma'am you kind of that touched on this already but i was wondering if you could speak to know the indian subcontinent specifically and they have a personal interest in the country i'm familiar with domestic servitude and then yeah and a lot of what i've seen has been paid on political servants that was always bothered me that as far as when you speak about slave labor in india is that farm labor rights is and what parts of the country he might even when my intentions well i think it's a big place so let me just say that they know that there are there are many parallels between

india and the united states in some way and one of them is you cannot find a state in the united states it doesn't actually really cannot find a state in india so it's in every part of the indians in the same way that some reporting and states in terms of where they you know what types of work are they enslaved slavery in general as it is normally about dirty dangerous demeaning work that operates at the bottom of the economic ladder so if you can find those places where that kind of work is going on in any country some clues india you do you have a good chance of finding slightly with you may not find it in every single situation there can be places where people are doing dirty dangerous work and getting paid indiana and have the right to walk away but you can also translate there is certainly large numbers in slate in agriculture and quarrying and commercial sexual exploitation but as servants and the list goes on and on i mean it's the only country where i've seen where people were enslaved to makes a hand out of blocks of

silica i mean when you think about how ubiquitous sandy is and how cheap san diegans the idea that you could make a profit selling handmade sand we you can get it and it can only happen if you had slave labor to make but that's that's sort of where we're go so if they're trees chopped down and you could force people to do it so that you'd take all profit they take nothing in the fishing industry candidates across the whole the whole the whole economy but as i have to say it would be fair to point out that you find it across the bottom of the wisconsin yes welcome i'm from oklahoma and london school of economics says the unrest in place for the study of capitalism and my question actually revolves around a spark of justice you talk about right here in our own audience you're going to be students who were going to be burdened with the severe debt and i wonder what your

responses to the economic problems in the united states and worker rights a union rights debt burdens of foreclosures drop in employment rates are dropping income from ramos people who work and we want jobs and i fully endorse you wore ah program of attacking any of those moral slavery around the world i'm not diverting attention from that and i believe that the arc of justice includes relatively relative slavery also all i kind of illness related to screw to quibble i think a little was a little of their language in that i i don't i don't like to use the word relative slavery i would be as worried if someone said well it

was just a relative rape wiggins with injuries as just recently and i don't i don't want to diminish that that the truth about of a particular thing about slavery of course you know economic injustice gender and justice as big interest as racial injustice i'm against all odds on a weekend we don't need any of my particular part and you couldn't in some ways you can say them coward write a modern take on the whole plan on taking on just this long time chuckles like that that's big enough but the point is that i also believe that when you when you go for that most egregious in her riveting example of injustice violence cruelty exploitation in his nose and convinced them powerful you can crush that you'll begin to lift other boats now were typical

for a long ways economically itself and dad certainly the debt on young people worries me tremendously but i also have to say you know there was quite a few years ago when i started working this area i walk by a lecture theatre at the university of london and there's a sign outside that said publicly provide debt bondage in slavery at a time when nobody was talking about now it's finally something sort of the lecture and as his accomplice to excuse explaining something in the early nineties which comes to pass about the enormous ballooning of mortgage debt which then collapses he's predicting and i was fascinated by what he was saying but at the end of it in the question and the answer i took that michael's unit and i said listen this is phenomenal lecture you've given me about mortgage debt that i work with an anti slavery organization you called this debt bondage and slavery and i guess i could we have are words backwards because we can just keep lead everybody in small

town there was a time when people are decides leveraging existing because it had ended legal slavery ended and a lot of issues that wanted to dramatize what they were going to use the word slavery i even heard argued to incest shooting deemed by the united nations i was interviewing leading that is it should be deemed a form of slavery by the united nations dramatize edition it's bad enough you don't have to consummate so i of course i'm just cutting a small slice out of his pocket and that i know that it's tied together and one of the things that i think is crucially important i'm trying to get at with all of this is now that we're all agreed it's a terrible thing and it's really here as we swim about ten years this agreement that is now say to lift up our eyes and say how's it fit with everything else housing link to the environmental destruction helps to link to gender violence how siblings of conflict how does a consultant and didn't

want to be able to undertake this particular long history thank you very much roiled took average which given the corruption that's used information vetted corruption of their governments and as part of the university getting the sam slavery of contemporary slavery how do you get around this thing is corruption and the us a top of balance probably the local organizes an independent organizations and walk with them i observe yom kippur civic corruption is a very tough nut to crack and we do know corruption can be crackers and reducing programs within the united nations about how the crack

corruption but i will tell you building that we did we did i do know for a fact is that if you have corruption in an area and that corruption is porting forms of enslavement and you're able to carry through that process of liberation re integration and citizenship training you can reduce corruption from the grassroots and in fact if you read the united nations guidebooks and how to read it on the anticorruption tool gets it's fundamentally says you have to start at the grassroots you have to reach that point as they were not want the region in india and if you saw the rupee notes that that was euro rupee notes they were saying get this as a bride but because it's c ruby services were not listening fundamentally one of the issues that we understand about corruption is that he wanted to crack it you do have to have a unified population willing to say no go to to corrupt officials and willing to take the risk of what like that cost but that it will push the corruption out in space and we've seen that certainly in the whole

regions of the state ordered her dash where we've done anti slavery work week pushed the boundaries of corruption back and got people of honestly what they should actually hit so in terms of working with the limelight us about the local groups because the organization that i work with that history of others as well we don't do this work ourselves on the ground reckon he'd only been parachuting in you know as americans or europeans or whatever we only work through indigenous local organizations we do work together in ways that we we have a long courtship when we get to know each other make sure that our child protection policies are in harmony and ideologies and philosophies appearance poor and unharmed so forth that we have the same economic transparency complete economic transparency and so when all those things we get tightly lined up and then we make a partnership and then it's like we get married to these organizations is not like most in she owes charities they say yeah we're partners what that means is we give you money you do he said no we just say we're stuck together from now swim

about thirty of those partners around the world that we work with constantly and they're the they're the ones who are able to go because they speak the local languages and know how to do it and and we learn from each other and things but also very exciting to me about this but aren't converting this way is that we are our art our partner is a nations around the world to visit each other so that you know now in the halls of the hand cartoon book which is for illiterate people to help them to understand why and how they could be caught up in human trafficking is actually a really drawn version of the brazilian when that are partners but they brought its new policy this is tested we have to change these funny looking people right dan macon looked appalling that you know we can make this happen and so we're learning back for that land that's that's that's one it's high and your bug on ending slavery race riots were talking a lot about the new and then i didn't really have to

be for an update you have to use sterility sorry it's an interesting question i thought it's actually been some had been involved with a lot lately because jurors there's a new anti slavery organization with significant backing it's coming out of australia is very tightly linked intense diplomacy and they have money and with the australian government in the us traders kind of the un security council so we're planning a whole bunch of possible things to do with the united nations the united nations has enormous potential that it's very difficult to get anything happened to me i work in the united nations meaning one should just so frustrated so an eventual it's got the greatest reputation in the world but boy if i could have that reputation work as far as they do that will be fantastic because they just grilling the things work and yet and yet peacekeeping forces if they were doing what they were supposed to be doing and not caught up in human trafficking sometimes

stopping situations complication rates slightly you know you as a peace has a space program with people in another but they use it to watch crop changes drowned refugees they could use the same spy satellites to look for slavery you know how do we know how to see slavery from space but we don't and that they weren't on the way that will give you said i was the one that you know so all across the un there are there are already existing programs within the united nations it could just be slightly nothing radical and it could be altered and the things that happen but the other thing is of course americans love the new novel the people of the united nations they don't realize is not a democracy it's run by this little committee you know and they're just watching their own backs of the most part out how to crack that didn't make the change sorry for their changes my question is about how the capital i take them off trafficking

and a cb out the louis xiv nation all those unwanted ads often especially in neonatal there aren't we i risk law sestanovich arizona a million op ed in and being well used my into it like this is an investment for the future retirement so what i tell yet identified the victim of the chafee may be you would never work because you're right of course you're right i mean it of course is a parallel between the effect of people who are or offered the jobs and then there's a bait and switch and things change and so forth but that's not what the terminus in slate its laden is determined by what happens after all that in slate that is about control and primarily you know when we're in the field were saying oh is that situation over there slavery our rule

of thumb question is to ask can that first person walk away even if its into a worst situation now people in slavery fundamentally cannot walk away so at that point consent or agreement a rational choice at all goes out the window because they have simply lost agency they cannot walk one of the things we don't tend to think about about our own freedom is how we have in our freedom and the opportunity to totally ruined our lives by history and what we had to do it was also because we have to make things are great but what things we can do in his dismissal you know we could become alcoholics or to mess up absurdly but he doesn't because i had the freedom to do some slaves can't even do that slaves cannot even choose to say oh i think oh quiet i will run away and die in the gutter of hunger because they can they're held against their will that's wesley reason

and i admit you know there are tough situations in all kinds of work but there's a line that you cross when you're going to survive an event that when you stand back sometimes that line looks little graves additional staff and certainly sometimes for the person who is being insulated they move through a gray area without even realizing that they end up on the other side of the wind until they say ms johnson so i mean that's something that happens to everyone ok thank you hey how mike tyson is related to the economic argument that you've been making and amit says for the scope of this precondition or because that's often that argument that policymakers you know are most open to accept because everyone wants the economy my question is whether that's the right to appeal to the making and building an anti gay and it is time to go out and start an anti slavery movement or maybe we have people in academia can work on making it about ending slavery because slavery is

wrong not because it'll make the economy better so i'm not saying that you are saying only for the economy but maybe what the movement would look like if we brought him there the implication of your question is one that i have to say i'm in total agreement with you know the only reason we wanted to wring slavery to an end because it could improve the economy would just be a lot of jerks it would be immoral and feeling awful people what i'm excited about the same time though is that as we begin to expand our comprehension of this issue when we begin to find things that might be plausibly we had to accentuate those because there are those parts of the population to agree that is morally wrong they say there's a lot of morally wrong things in the world right people treat their cats but what i think that it's hard to motivate be so if we can get them on the moral fundamental issue which really ought to reach universal one and move them and let's talk about some of the facts as tell them that ending slavery can make the world economy that was telling that ending slavery can drive a drastic dramatically reduce the amount of seo

to because the atmosphere help with global warming which is drunk history that hasn't been released yet you may be hearing it for the first time that we you know that i'm true that we know that you know we can reduce corruption that we know that continues and why not use it as a big surprise when you take a fundamental vicious horrible crime and poured out of the equation the other things might wind up and wilbur sure that's good so there's a pencil and unfounded do you say not only is the engine won the great mileage that decision really comes because you've just heard kevin bales co founder of the international organization free the slaves and author of ending slavery how we've freed today as slaves after bales was the keynote speaker at a conference on human trafficking hosted by the university of kansas on january thirty first and february first two thousand and thirteen this event

was recorded by kansas public radio in turn jeff carmody of lawrence i'm katie mack entire k pr presents is a production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas