North Carolina People; Dr. David Jones, Director, NC Zoological Park

You're needing friends. DR DAVID JONES As we all know is headed the North Carolina Zoo and out of Ashburn which has grown to be one of the great great attractions of our state. If you haven't been planned for the end of summer but you don't have to wait for the summertime or summertime in magnificent place he's here with me and we're going to talk about what's on his mind the look ahead for the park. Sponsored in part by a Wells Fargo Company helping North Carolina people realize their financial goals through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting a

good friend it's good to see you again and congratulations on the. It's quite an institution. It's good to see you picked up my paper the other day and I read about your project for those who haven't. Well you know we feel we need to expand in order to increase visitation and so increase income. We're looking at the moment to see if we could raise the capital about 100 million to build a nuke if we could do that would increase of visitation about 300000 people to pay for the running costs because as you know state the state is not in a position to pay that much extra. It will bring in probably another six million. We feel

that would pay for at least a run. When we talk about Asia or the project what does that include. Dave what do you what are you talking about. Well it's a hundred acre site. You know the whole site is over 2000 eggs a big site here the largest do in the world are well geographically we are. Yes we certainly have the largest acreage and that's what gives us such enormous potential for for the long term future Asia would sit many people of course viewers will know the site quite well. The two parking big parking lots Asia sorry Africa and North America are about half a mile apart and Asia would sort of sit between those two big parking areas and you'd be looking at Tigers. The Rangar Tang's snow leopards camels a wide variety of animals. Right now you don't see in the zoo that's that standing very nice to hear you say. What do you do in thinking about it.

Are you now at the planning stage you're beginning to look at what it would require what we did is we took on one of the best companies in the world to really look at the financing of it and what the economic impact would be to the region of the state. And we've asked them three questions. One relates to this new continent. But we also have not under state ownership it's owned by the zoo society. Three hundred acres along side where we would build Asia where we're asking the question if we were to build another day a visitor attraction for family is not defined as yet. Together with hotel and conference facilities what would be the total economic impact and what's what's so staggering about that is as you would see the the employment side of that go up to something like Seventeen hundred people. That includes the spin off employment you know when when something like a zoo attracts a million visitors a million million to visitors which is where we're

aimed at then they're spinning off. We calculate 200 million into the local economy. So if if we could do all of that together over the next 10 to 15 years it also helps to support financially the existing. In reading what you've been saying lately I picked up this phrase conservation National Resource Management natural resource management and rural economic development what the interlocking here. What do you see. Very much so I mean as you know I've worked in a lot of countries around the world and I've seen from the very poorest countries to still despite all the issues the wealthiest country on earth and you know where we're consuming about one and a half world's earths right now that we're not returning in other words we're not being sustainable in the way that we use the snatcher results is.

So whether you're talking about energy about oil about food production about water across the globe we've got to get to grips globally got to get to grips with how we manage those resources because in the end it's the natural resource base it's the oil it's the minerals it's the food production that is going to drive the global economy. And right now with all the other issues going on particular local economy the national economy we're not really aware of that bigger issue. And so I see a function for an institution like Zoo as being very you need we need to excite people about the animal and plant world. But we also need to begin to give them a clear understanding of the interrelationships of all those three elements natural resources. How do we deal with the rural sector. How do we encounter we have enough food for everybody how do we how do we protect water supplies air quality all of that is really really critical to the economy of the state and nationally and internationally.

As you travel the world who does it best then. Well you know that's a very good question I would say probably countries like the Scandinavian countries Denmark Norway Sweden Holland Spain now a lot of the European countries actually are becoming much more sustainable that than we are an energy wise in particular much more smart about food production. Of course those of countries like us that actually have plenty of water. But you know something like 70 7 0 countries in the world now facing water shortages 20 of them very very severe water shortages. And although we hear about water shortages in the in the west of the US Southwest particularly in reality the country the US has has adequate water resources how we manage them how we how we distribute them. But globally we're not we are not up to the standards that we really need to be setting for ourselves.

I think you put your finger on North Carolina's number one issues but to do about water we have these great river systems but we've got three million more people to well and we know we're up to nine million now from 8 million. You know when I came here 17 years ago and we're talking about going up to 10 or 11 million within the next 20 to 30 years. And I don't you know it when we think about development around the state we know we're not always thinking about water water needs. It's not it's not just water needs the people you need to. You've got to have adequate water supplies also for for all other forms of life because it's all those it's that integration of all life plants and animals around your river that is in your water that actually maintains the water quality. So you can't just you can't just calculate water for people you have to calculate what the water is needed to sustain all forms of life. You run a huge enterprise and you just speaking of water you make me think of this.

I'm sure there are dietary editors are vast and different and require some real imagination. How do you organize the zoo with its hundred different. Yeah. Well first of all you have to have skill stuff and folks who knew who know what the diets of these animals should be. You know I've been in the zoo world now over 40 years and when I came in as a young veterinarian at London Zoo you know in the late 60s we we understood very little indeed of the nutrition of the John panda roll or crocodiles or what I mean we knew what they ate in the wild. But the reality is we didn't really have much knowledge as to how you could replicate that. And today 40 years on we have so much more knowledge we even many zoos have professional nutritionists on staff but we have nearly all our staff are graduates. They have been trained in a whole variety of biological son says but they're very skilled in understanding. And of course reading the literature learning from their colleagues

in other institutions as to how you know how you feed a lion or a polar bear or a seal. Yeah you know and so there are many many ways which then our commissary our sort of food production units and the staff and then prepare these amazing and these amazing dinners or breakfasts or whatever it may be. But with all sorts of different components in order to keep all these animals very healthy. I was going to say let's go to the other side of the equation. Star gotten a veterinary size field. How do you prevent disease. What do you what do you do to keep those animals so healthy. Well we treat the zoo as a sort of big quarantine site. We any animal coming into the collection doesn't matter what it is is isolated from other animals and it does not go on to exhibit for months and sometimes way depending on what the species is with with monkeys for example where there are a few more issues potentially we might keep them in quarantine longer. We don't

allow pets animals on site except for working animal you know working assistance animals. The the big potential issue is we don't we how we host a very large wildlife population. And once again you know with 2000 would be a day because in an otherwise developing area we've become a sort of wildlife Island. So whether it's whether it's box turtles or whether it's deer or foxes or whatever wildlife It may be there is a potential for disease transmission that we know we have rabies on site but of course most in most of North Carolina rabies is a dam Akin foxes and RIKOON and occasionally we'll get a case which is slightly worrying more for the visit. We've had one or two instances where visitors have come across rabies and never had a bites never had abide. But the issue of disease transmission to the collection is actually relatively minor it's not a big issue providing we isolate incoming OWLS from the resident animals for a while.

With all that you see you know you know all these visitations are human beings and more respectful of the role of the animals in our culture. We must be I think they are. Yes I mean it still there is a lot according to people's backgrounds and what they've been used to. But no I think we are seeing a much greater respect and you know we're a much greater awareness now in the public of zoos standards of animal welfare. We pride ourselves in the North Carolina Zoo on having very very high standards of animal welfare. And I don't know whether you know this but we've actually we're probably the world's leader in developing international standards through the world's Association I'm chairman of the ethics and Welfare Committee of the world's Association and we've been working with Kabul with Baghdad now with Cairo with the National Zoo in Egypt as well as a whole range of other zoological facilities throughout the world to to improve standards of husbandry to improve standards of welfare. An

hour the American citizen now is very much more aware of the requirements for good animal husbandry good animal standards in the maintenance of zoos. You know I'm still very concerned that we have 2000 probably around 2000 animal collections open to the public across the US. And yet we have very very few regulations as to how those animals are cat. And the irony is I'm working with China and India and countries in Africa with colleagues to help them improve standards and yet in the U.S. we still have a lot of what we call zoos than menageries really which is simply not up to the standards they ought to be in an ambition of mine before I die is to see if we can get as you know the states tend to control not the federal government but we need to we need to adopt much much higher standards of animal husbandry and

presentation. You know people need to see animals in a in a visually satisfying environment not in concrete and metal. And that's of course a great feature about the quality of what we have in the end season. You are a standalone that way. It's yeah. I think we do but about the schoolchildren. That's been a wonderful project so I think you know I think you and I talked about it into just started. This is a we have our own high school when I say we have our own high school it's a branch of Ashburn. We have a hundred I should I probably shouldn't say is about when it was built for 100 students I think we could one hundred twenty roughly in the in the school that the moon has a purpose built very competitive to get into and the kids are the really chosen not not on any academic ability but on on their sort of overall need for that for a small school background.

But what's so unique about it and this is really the way to die and frost the superintendent of schools in Ashburn sort of thought about this five six years ago was that if children could actually work with real examples of real life situations then geography history math science all become so much more real sure. And so what these kids are doing they come to us at 10:00 in the morning five days a week they leave us mid afternoon so they spend a little time at both ends of the day. Back at the main high school but for the rest of the time they use everything going on in the zoo so not just the animals not just the biology but the way you run it to the visitors how are they reacting. The mechanics of running the place the transport system every aspect of the living working organization and that makes because their projects are all related to that. It just makes what they're doing so much more meaningful than just reading from a computer screen or textbook. So it's

been a it's been a great success and we'd like to see it now expanded to you know to take in more kids. Those kids who want to stay there and work for us and then you and some of them do come back because the summer months there are a great resource in terms of sort of older teenage temp workers. And many of the great volunteers too coming back you know to to work with our volunteer force as well. Now David let's put Asia over here for a moment. What about the future of the enterprise itself. What are the dreams we have. Yeah I'm good I'm Bill I'm a bit worried about that. And I think we need to look probably as a new form of how we operate. You're more than familiar with the the issues that state governments are facing you see it in the university system right now because we do have options to raise more income ourselves. What I would like to see is a much greater level of flexibility in how we run the zoo. It's a funny hybrid. We have

serious purposes the zoo was founded to be an educational recreational resource where all of that with science with conservation. But in the end of the day we've also got to be a business owner because mom and typically it's mom on a Thursday night is making a decision as to where the where she's going to take the kids on Saturday and Sunday. And she has so much choice now at around the state. She doesn't care whether we are owned by the state or by anybody else. She wants a higher quality rest for all. That's difficult with kids. An experience which is meaningful. And so we have to be we have to be marketable. We have to be what our visitor wants us to be. And so what I'm trying to work towards in my senior staff team at the moment is working towards a day when we can have a lot more flexibility a lot more decision making on site. We can't make decisions quickly you know that and we need to be able to partner with. That's why I mentioned things like the

hotel conference facilities. Another day visitor attraction which will be privately funded but run in association with us. All of that means a greater level of flexibility in how we operate and how we make decisions that's going to be essential for the future if we're going to grow and have the finances to deal with our backlog maintenance and to go on growing the existing zoo and adding new elements to the zoo. If we need to keep growing and to keep raising the income in order to decrease the burden ultimately on the taxpayer. That's a wonderful way to look at things for the future. But how do you maintain the quality of what you have in terms of the animal population. Is that a constant turnover. I know it well you know one one thing that we are well known for and really unique among the wanted to San Diego is a good example where the horticultural side of what we do is so critical. It's a beautiful site in the middle of the UAR is that it's in Holland by the way

plant keepers are horticulture side beautifies that place and we have you know as we have a committed design unit with professional sculptors on the staff. Every aspect of the statics of the looks of the beauty of the place the way it's laid out the planning is very very carefully considered. And so even before you were looking at Animal House McCain how do you how do you maintain the animal collection. It's also what is the look of the park. How does it one of the first impressions people get coming through the gate. How do the exhibits look in relation to the animal you're showing you want to put a polar bear in in a in a facility that you know the people can can get some idea of what the Arctic environment might look like. So all of that is is in the hunt seeing how you then display the animals and that's before you get to the actual animal husbandry itself. Another way you probably know that we're about to spend eight million

dollars on a huge enlargement of the polar bear exhibit about four times its present size. And that's our that's our big project right now. And that requires all those skills all put together to make to make it the best we can make it. Remember the last time I was there I was in the polar bear exhibit and he swam over and his nose against the glass and I was afraid to put my hand up there pretty good somewhere. He's such a huge animal and use always to imagine he's going to come through the grass and you know you can imagine with a small you know when the six year old that eight year old is up against the glass Pressley is will her nose stick and that you know 600 pound animal is right there looking at him. He never forgets that experience and never forgets. It's so dramatic at this. What's your connection globally then you this huge global figure in a zoological world but I mean is there networking now because of all these other matters you've done.

Yes there is very much I mean I was working at London Zoo 25 years ago. The old British colonial connections were very valuable in coming coming here to North Carolina. And I brought many of them with me so we have now quite a sizable field program in Africa. We focus on two regions Uganda in East Africa and Cameroon Nigeria and to some extent surrounding countries in West Africa. So a lot of our staff a lot of our senior staff are involved in projects with elephants with gorillas and a lot with education in Uganda. Our largest project there is actually working with local schools quite close to the Congo border in fact and working with them to do what we talked about earlier on which is how do they use their local resources in a more efficient way. And how do they value the amazing diversity animal plant Do they have around them. So we have all of that. And then. Because of the connection to the world's Association we're working with a range of other zoos on

mostly helping beginning to build a global perspective on where the zoo world generally where the zoo well needs to be going in terms of skills training in terms of its of the way it looks off rounds of how you how you influence a lot of culture and this is difficult when you're dealing with Southeast Asia how do you how do you influence cultures that are not so respectful of the animal world Southeast Asia China Japan to an extent are not cultures that actually understand animal welfare in the way that we in the West do. So I've been working with a lot of colleagues on seeing whether we can we can ultimately come out with what I would call a global ethics a welfare standard is pretty ambitious. But we are actually making some considerable headway on that. What's your connection then with NC State's program. Very strong. Veterinarians are Chief Ed and a senior veterinarian are both teaching at the vet school. The vet school provides us with

skills services and particularly the Barfly background pathology that sort of thing and we host a lot of different students this time of you can imagine with the universities out right now the demand we have for vetting the students coming to see the practice to come and spend weeks days weeks months with us. And that also expands of course into trying to get you know it's almost every week I get I get a mom ringing me up you know my 13 year old daughter wants to be the zoo vet you know a cat can I come and talk about it. And so one of our issues is how do we cope with this huge interest in zoo biology and zoo that are sons and a lot of that is conducted through our wonderful that college here in here in Raleigh. You know when I've walked on the premises down there I've never once had a sense of fear. Most people when they go into the grips of is this because of it openness and if you just feel that

they're at their natural habitat you are where you belong and that's where they are. Well obviously safety of safety of the visitor safety of the star is a key issue in everything that we do. But yes I mean all our exhibits are super safe and in the sense that they're designed with with backup safety facilities or you know whatever you look whether it's the enclosure itself whether it's the way we handle animals in their in their bedrooms in their nighttime accommodation. So yes I think there is you know visitors coming into a place like the NC zoo. They do feel much more comfortable. And it's not just a safety issue it's what people tell us is it's an invalid it's an inviting environment and it's an environment in which they feel comfortable. You know over the years I've watched visitors are on never forget being in Delhi India zoo when half a million people came in one day after a Mayday Parade in Delhi. And and this is a zoo which is very you know very old and it's in this concert. And people were genuinely

frightened of being in a place like that. But the having the openness the the open desire of this little rural look and the wonderful landscapes both natural and man lately have I think does and the exhibits to the exhibits look natural and so people feel much more comfortable with that. You feel at home. I wish we had more time David Jones but I can't tell you how wonderful it is to visit with you again and you stimulate me to make my next visit friends I hope you've enjoyed hearing once again from this very talented very dedicated personality who means so much to North Carolina himself. Thank you for letting us visit. Until next week. And I sponsored in part by what Kovio a Wells Fargo Company helping North Carolina people realize their financial goals since 1879 and through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting you in

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