Seabrook 1977

On April 30th 1977 2500 people organized by the Clamshell Alliance know the nonviolent occupation on the construction site of a nuclear power plant in Seabrook a small coastal town in New Hampshire. The next day. Fourteen hundred fourteen people were arrested and held in National Guard armory for 13 days. This is a document of that event. In.

June. In America. You certainly have a right to an opinion that is opposite that of other people and you do have to do not the one I have with respect to nuclear power. So you came as I understand it. Let the world know that there is another side and that you represent that on the other hand you understand that you are here against the laws of the state of New Hampshire and trespassing. As. You probably know. I was there

and they seemed to represent a cross section of America. There were young people. There were many people as I recall there were several children but the assumption was that the children were offspring of married couples. Then there were people was all because I was from different stations in life. The academic community and from other disciplines fairly well behaved. I think that they were there in support of their beliefs and their principles. So we. See it as an issue because nuclear power has proven to be. Too expensive. And too dangerous.

To be. A part of a free society. The potential for destruction of the environment and the people of the economy is too great for Seabrooke and all nuclear power will not be an issue. For me as the position is the most dangerous. How has the world 7:9 a little bit now but much more in the way of boiling water to produce electricity. It's a very expensive way of boiling water and it's a very dangerous way for the water and all we get is smell which turns on our lights but the side effects are so severe that we must think very carefully about the press to say because this is the most toxic carcinogenic cancer chemicals that we've ever

known. And some of these chemicals lost thousands and thousands or even half. This is the site of Saybrook station two unit nuclear power generating plant that's expected to go into operation in 1985. They're supplying most of New Hampshire's electrical power at the site here. It's up and then so that goes out into the marsh the site itself is in a woodland area. You can see over across Hampton Beach that site is about a mile back from the beach. This area right here is an equipment storage area. The concrete housings that you see will be used to take the ocean water used for cooling this theme and the generation of electricity from the pump power down at the site of the plant. So the plants condenser is much of the area you see around here it's just to support that construction effort.

No scarring from those and I wouldn't say because my life. And work from home doing it. I don't want it down with that. And. In hopes of stopping and. Planning the operation with many of military staffs to train. Very well planned the whole thing the written portion is the briefing the constant talks they gave for the people. They they definitely cleaned out the participants with them had a problem. I know of several cases personally where they actually refused to have people participate who they think would be the right type of person. Know they were either they're frivolous or

people out with drugs and so forth so they really do a lot of what the plan was actually was to get overwhelmed. Fred Gunderson this is a staging area for the entire new demonstration. We're trying to get her body together here before going near the site where this is a staging area that is holding people from Western Mass Connecticut and Vermont. Some people from New York City. We just feel I feel that this is very important movement and I think whatever I can do to stop it I am putting that effort forward. This is my

land and my house here I've built it myself and I've opened it up to the clam and to everybody that's here today. Everybody here is going through nonviolent training. We don't foresee any problems with the state troopers or the police department local police departments. We have been in communication with the local police department and Seabrooke. We have told them everything that we are going to do. We have been out in the forefront with it. We haven't kept anything secret. We plan to move onto the site sometime tomorrow morning and hopefully stay there as long as possible. I wonder if. My name is Frank Fance I'm in the public relations department of public

service in New Hampshire and my job is with the state and nuclear power. And the job of our apartment is to be the contact point for the company with our news media shareholders and others and information about see what they can and and nuclear power to be a reason why. Seabrook Station was chosen to be a nuclear power plant because in New England today and for the next couple of years in the next decade or two the only available fuels to generate large amounts of electricity are where rhenium oil and coal and on the basis of the cost of electricity the Valla the ability of the source of supply of fuel and

environmental impact. We've found other New England utilities feel that nuclear power is the best choice of those three possible alternatives. When you first heard about the plan what was your initial reaction. I was very much against it. My first thought of course is about the revolution. I have a child or grandchild can turn on. I think I'm the one who will affect so much of my will. But I remember once I'm up I'm afraid of death. How did you first become active against my first started I read a letter in the paper that was written by badguy jester and it made me

stop and think of this letter Stolberg what I had been through. So I got in touch with one friend of my dad. And then as a result of that we started to concerned citizens and started to have having movements and it's really becoming hard to that one step. And we tried to educate the people on the pros and cons. And. Took up a petition and had it put on the ballot should there be a nuclear power plant in Seabrook and the vote coming out. Seven hundred and sixty you don't know. Six hundred thirty two deaths said Mukalla non-binding. What do they mean by. Well it was just that our votes count. Evidently.

The Clamshell Alliance started in response to the construction permit finally being granted by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for a twin nuclear power plant in Seabrook New Hampshire on the coast. So then there we were at the end of June 1976 waiting for this for the results from the NRC and when they came down at the very end of June and officially the first week of July people across England who were watching the Seabrooke opposition and opposition to this plan decided that we had to gather together and figure out what to do next since all legal action had failed and the public service company in New Hampshire was ready to go ahead with construction. So in the second week of July 76 people got together people

from little anti-nuclear groups like ours here in Franklin County and people from Boston a lot of people mostly from New Hampshire. And we talked and we talked over a period of a couple of weeks that a couple of meetings. And we decided that we had to get together and plan an opposition to the plan to stop the plant based on non-violent direct action. This was the only recourse we had left to us. And were a pretty good leader right under what's called the spoke. How did you become a spokesperson. I was elected by the people of the group. It was this group put together. And not just people who were interested in this area.

Came to meetings and then the people who decided they might want to occupy into nonviolent training session code by Isabel. Well we had I guess two training sessions and we began each session introducing ourselves and getting to know each other and then we spent a good deal of time talking about nonviolence and what nonviolent means in the history of nonviolence about how Gandhi worked to free India from the British empire through nonviolence in the civil rights movement and nonviolence and let each person talk about what they mean about nonviolence and this respect for other people. And it's a position of strength that you can be strong in your beliefs without being violent in the training sessions. We had Well. The situation that is a little bit like what might really happen simply were police in the workplace. There are occupiers and the police going the police and the occupiers going

into being occupiers. We set up no where the police stand with the occupiers we're going to do. And then we say go and then everyone takes over. Everyone acts and the roads when all that. Each person gets a chance to talk about what it was like being in that role in the action. So the Occupy is something the police could say with that felt like police would get a lot of good information about what's effective and what's not effective and the different people might be feeling in the actual action. And with the comparisons and have some idea of what could happen. I wouldn't say your name. My name is Claire and pisky and I'm from Amherst Massachusetts. Why are you here today. Well I'm here today because I have three children and I'd like to try to make the world safe for them to live in.

My oldest is 18. My youngest is 13 and I just don't see how given human nature we can keep those ways safe for generations and generations of unborn children including my grandchildren which are still in the offing. How do your children feel about your being here today. Well they're a little nervous because they understand that there could be some reasonable serious repercussions possibly violence. The youngest was nervous about my coming but he feels that it's really important that we make a stand. All radiation is doing this is just commonly recognized throughout the medical literature that not radiation to human beings or animals for that matter is safe. We live with a background level of radiation which comes from the sun and some of the rocks on the earth and we have adjusted to the background radiation and we live with it all right now to increase the radiation. It's dangerous because radiation

increases the risk of cancer production and it increases the risk of damaging the genes and the eggs and the sperm which will be responsible for future generations. Background Radiation is low level and it's averaged over all the cells of the body and we've got millions and billions of cells in our body. And if you get a 170 million rights to the total body each cell receives just a very low dose radiation from nuclear power is different because it's produced in particulate matter as chemicals and as things chemicals leaking into the environment which they're doing every day from my storage facilities from power plants from the fuel cycle starting and getting uranium mining from uranium enrichment and milling. What is the worst part about some of the nuclear power cycle. Each stage produces radioactive material and because Man is fallible the stuff leaks and so as it makes now so and inevitably in the future

now as these materials leak into the environment they tend to get in the water and then they're concentrated in the food chains they concentrated by the grass and the vegetables from the water. Then as the Kapolei the grass and vegetables it's concentrated in the capital and inside it's concentrated thousands of times and then as human beings eat the calf all the meat and the milk it's concentrated further in us so that as this stuff leaves you don't know where it's going. You can't taste it you can't smell can't see it so therefore you don't know for instance that you're drinking some milk containing strong non-Tea or radioactivity or you are eating a piece of cheese containing stuff or anything else you don't know that you might be burning some may contain some pattern and it's important for the general population tonight. That's right. Right. Yes. It's going to take a long time for them to get sick cancer 15 to 40 years to get the cancer and five years to get there and we know this from the bombs that were

dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki we know these statistics calculation to come along. How do we know. Are we going to take control. We will close it down and wait out after July 9. Governor you don't know what the protesters say on the site overnight or for an extended period of order at the request of the public service that was made to cover a restricted area namely that area which we have the chain link fence. That's the extent of the order and that's the part that I'm concerned about what the protection is. I want to be outside. Well if you were out there walking to stay up there beyond a chain link fence we only be arrested at this point. We're not going to do anything about what they were doing. Our

concern right now is the part that has been defined by the fact that them to come up the access road. I leave that to the general. My deal I'm afraid it's over tell so to go to the for sure off with the pencil on your performance. If you were not prohibiting them from coming in on the access road as long as they do not block ingress and egress of Motor Vehicles or any other type of activity that may be going with that road are going to come up this weekend we're not prohibiting them from coming up with service property. That you don't go beyond that as the governor indicated the chain link fence enclosure that we were currently with said they're going to stay here until the construction stop. Now just a week. What's going to happen after the weekend.

Decisions relating to your question will be made as time goes on. Well how do you feel about being put in this position right now. Well instead of this frankly I would like to see the public service companies contractors working overtime this weekend and every weekend and well into the night. They get the nuclear plant completed we need it in New Hampshire. We need it in New England and we need it as a part of the production force in America for energy. When.

I. Started I think very small I think there was only a handful of people in town that realized what was going to happen to us from there. Now it's a point of asking the well I do know what phoneme is. You know radioactivity isn't all that we even think about it. I just said well no I don't really know. You can't have it in your backyard you know and you've got a few that would decide if it was going to go out and find out what was going on and just exactly what was coming into town. Others didn't care. And I think it's gotten to the point now where they are realizing exactly what's going on.

I think public services paints a good picture. What exactly is a public service company trying to do. With a lot of pressure if they tried to find. Oh wow. And Russia at that time I was walking by my wife here can tell you what happened because I work in Boston and my wife can tell you what happened. She can tell you that's what happened with the kids. And then I walked out and there was this gal. Waiting around me. We can take care of. Those. Who. Were. Not get it one way or the other of a bulldozer to my dog you don't understand like. One. Of. Had to kill me before I take my wife my eyes focused on. This place. I went home on Monday. Nobody nobody gave me anything I got I worked for. I got the uniform on. I'm doing it here

to help the town out. Something to keep me occupied. They I believe in the law but these people don't believe in the law. They think because they're big they can be or they can do whatever they want. I don't know if they came by me mean my wife. I'm never right and the people on your cap and I work at. President Carter what about it. Most of the day the people of the country could do something about it. Now let me investigate. All these people are giving the OK to do this right. I don't think they know what they're doing because they don't know what other people think about it. We voted twice. You and I said our vote was no good. What if my vote is no good. I voted to get me fired. My vote is no good. I don't think it could be in office.

On the river your mouth now you're gone and you. Have no one to. Swim with their health by the

way. He died on Friday but there was no doubt about that. And you're. Gonna die rather than no dad. And one day. They were down. All right. And

now right now and maybe. He was down about an hour ago and then. I. Can do that. And.

What. Do. You tell me why the occupiers are being allowed on the site today. No we couldn't. You have to join the main group of your own Save you have to go back.

So the access road. OK you have any special plans for today or tomorrow. OK think of. Obama. You have to join the main group. Is. Put yourself in their position if you are facing eighteen hundred or 2000 the

highly organized dedicated people committed to nonviolence and committed to the idea of getting on the site and stopping the nuclear power plant I think you'd be real confused and you wouldn't exactly know how to proceed. And you would probably follow the line of least resistance which was allowing us on the site. And that's what happened. Would it be for the power of nonviolence is just a whole other level of tactic. And it's something that that is totally mind blowing it's if we came on if we had approach this thing with any ideas of violence or heavy macho sort of we would not we would not be on this side. There's no way. But somehow being non-violent really opened the door. I don't there's no way to understand it really seems to be some sort of magical force. Great. I

agree. I'm not the second one is you get excited boo boo to actually accomplish things. What we didn't know what to do after a while. Second thing we set up a little community. But then like how do we govern from our own little city. I think I'm a person now and playing a little bit with Woo Woo Woo Woo Woo Woo Woo Woo Woo Woo Woo. Well then to learn what we like to hear from public service. That before I move on I have another move on now with you.

We're back with you. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. You know how you feel about being called out Who goes to jail for a certain amount of commitment that makes you want to breath back. I know as Antonio Sans-Souci I live down and save up now and then and desert my wife always right here. We've been married over pretty close to over 40 years. And. We've been we lived in Boston but in the meantime I had a chance to pick up that piece of land here and it was our war. I met

her we both cleaned it out. We. Did all we made at our home and how we got here and that it's going to stay there as long as I live. Now they go out when I'm wrong. If a guy right over here we will be off. We went on a few cabbage and potatoes and all different stuff and all we got were all calmed down and we can just take a walk down here. If you are right. I try to raise a little forward you know so I don't have to go to the market and buy it. You're going to make market to black and I'm like huh. That. The forefront of mine 8:00 9:00 o'clock at night. My Lego my land goes.

Gold. On the other side right here. But here is what's on my heart right here on out here. But I know you're going to hear a truck drove by right there. The paperwork here. They don't live here. They don't care about the people they run. All right. A mighty dollar. They had a plant in back in their own back yard. They went around it. And I think they're the of people wake up the Barbershop. We're going to. We really don't need the nuclear plant. I'm right here. And like I say they'll never they'll never get my property no matter how much money they got how much. What. Is their own. This is a 40 acre plant

site itself. But you can see the excavation. Which was started last August. The. Reactor containment unit number one will be. Sitting right over this ledge here we're. Down 60 feet into the rock the foundation. And support for the reactor vessel for unit number one will be about the whole argument that the public service company and all the utility companies. Is that possible that a nuclear accident happened that this can't possibly happen that the whole safety argument is ridiculous. How would you respond to that. Well I don't you know don't step away from the plan. I don't believe it because there have been so many witnesses Brown's Ferry ride plan where a man was pinned to the Superman ground turkey right

Brian Williams says this happened in Connecticut and of them so many things planned and then the weapon is one great holocaust. I don't think we should wait for one because going back to my last. Night was a melt down what happens. Well there's as much radiation in Japan France as a thousand Hiroshima type bombs. And if there's a melt down and this is Scates it will kill thousands of people. Thousands will die pretty instantly that day when their radiation if the dose is high enough. And two weeks later many more will die of what's called the radiation illness. And what happens is that they're perfectly healthy for about two weeks and then only rapidly dividing So the body die and that's the hassles. So the head folds up it's the cells and so you have vomiting and diarrhea. So skin cells you get

big ulcers on the skin and it's the blood cells so you die eventually of anemia and infection because there are no white blood cells to fashion picture. It's a living state. And it was not described until the bombs fell on Hiroshima and the doctors were saying A new things which I'd never seen before. So that's acute radiation. It's five years later there'll be an epidemic of Kenya with people have been exposed. There's no way of telling whether right. I think it depends on the direction the wind is blowing at that particular time when there's a meltdown. And 15 years later cancers will start appearing and they will increase as the years go by because it's now 30 years since that bomb was dropped those 32 and the incidence of cancer is still rising. Hiroshima Nagasaki. Among the survivors so we don't know if the Mets from the time when the incidence of cancer occurs and the time of radiation exposure. So it's not a pretty picture. And then of course generation side is likely to

be increased incidence of genetic disease and and and the mousies and the children who were born. So that's a meltdown that occurs and I think it's not if that's when. The. You have no right under the Constitution. Or. Laws. To. Occupy. You understand. Are you prepared to take the consequences that we cannot tolerate. Your answer in that is truly American values. Is that the pope.

And that's why you should take it ultimate. I'm ready I think to take the consequences of our. I think we can call it a highly principled stand. We're standing for the future of people in New Hampshire and he's been fighting us and eventually in a protest against the building on the ground I would have to disagree and simply point out that in my judgment the judgment certainly that the majority of the citizens of New Hampshire you are taking the law into your hand. This is something that we cannot tolerate and will not tolerate. I'm going to have to go on. Thank you for coming on. And I'm just wondering if I ask why. I just want to know who is actually in charge of the operation. I'm the governor of the state. And I am in Charlotte. OK. Mr. Thompson if anybody from public service company the people of public service is not

involved in the decision making I'm listening to all who want to have some input into it. OK folks thank you very much. You're all going on this afternoon. We entered into quite a ways back. But it still. Gallagher I'm on my belt. And I'm very you know my very favorite was a pleasure to welcome the intervention. I would prefer to say that it is better but it really about to be a diplomat. I hope that the level of diplomacy can be reached. You know typical human level of understanding could be reached between us or rather where we've been here since Friday. And it's been a trying

period for all concerned our side and your side. We're all Americans and we're all here living up to a principle or a duty. It would be my wish and I would hope that I could get your indulgence and cooperation in that you would entertain the fact that you're perhaps fulfilled initially the goal that you set out to do which was the occupation of the site. You quite obviously have gained the attention. I would suspect it has been hoped for by your leadership because your cause has been brought forth on the front pages of many publications throughout the country along with the tube and the airwaves in the best interest of just being human beings. The other side and for us side I would like to encourage you to call it the weekend and then we could all leave peacefully

without anyone being the subject matter of arrest. With people demonstrating within the framework of the law. We know like marches and things of that nature think because of my adult life. If you look at what I've invested of my life in law enforcement that I could ever be a demonstrator marching up and down with it. But I certainly respect the position that people who do that take as long as they don't violate the law. Now as a police officer where they do violate the law just assume that it doesn't happen or that at least it's prevented either through arrest or discussion and encourage them to not to continue breaking the law. Might you entertain a request to disband and go home in consideration of having made your point.

With system that means I would not read anything until we are arrested people are going to be arrested. That's basically what Rennie asked him what his timetable was. He said Come on back here in 10 minutes let us know what your group feels we said we've needed more time than that. He finally compromised and said that he would like us to report back to him that we were not people who met with him or to meet him back with him at 3:00 pm with our decision. He said bending would give us a warning. We would have half an hour to get the leave and if we don't we'll be arrested. OK. What what the DMV proposed was I guess what the friendly folks that were as well was that when that

warning comes we go to our affinity groups. We sit down. We stay in our affinity groups. Some may suggest that you go on your 10 simple thing. And if the points come from that they have a warrant because this is your home. Maybe we can leave him out the door right away. Well we got to be together and then the buses to come in and we're going home. Yes. And I think that really in a situation like Seabrooke protest it's perfectly valid to say that this is a conscientious stand that people take when they say I'm not going to sit quietly by and see something started which is going to pose a deadly threat to. Not so much my generation but to future generations to my kids and their children for generations to come. And

to stop wars since legal methods seem to be failing to be effective we can use civil disobedience. We can refuse to obey the law by way of challenging a negro horrible school perpetrated by the power companies and supported by the civil authorities and so they. Will of course wants to go up and create jobs. We have good news for us. I'm going to stay on the site. Sorry for the trouble. It's going to cost you. But it would work probably more for people I think if we

changed our. World to that. Thank you for the courtesy of returning and informing me. I would ask that you be particularly attentive to the message that I'll be broadcasting to you within minutes. I know I. Was standing here outside the guardhouse outside of the Seabrook nuclear power plant a whole string of state police sheriffs with horses are now being driven in the nuclear power plant site. The. The.

Maybe you understand for people who get together on a Sunday how does it feel to be waiting to be cut away. Well it's a really strange feeling because I've never been in that position. I'm not going to want to come back again. We are definitely occupying power plants around the world. It's been a recipe for

the first time we. See. I a

I mean. I. Collectively made a stand against nuclear power a long while. Their power is something violent and dealing with it. Non-firing you're not using the tools of the system by using our own collective tools as a group of people and then more of oppression more of a stand more of a mark on the history and until now I felt very strong while doing the right bomb on an important point. I guess that's what I thought about many years came up I just concentrated on what I was doing and how important it was and how important

it was to my statement to the world that all these people are ready to go out and get arrested to you know to make that statement against nuclear power. I mean it may be illegal in one sense but you also have not a right you have to have a mandate to be there. And if you're if you're going to carry your political concerns about their power to their natural conclusion then I think you've got it on a one way or another. Stop talking and physically put yourself where your beliefs on before I decided to occupy a lot of reading and talking about it it wasn't a chance like this without really knowing that you had a little more than a gut feeling which I always had I needed more than that really help to be

able to articulate and solidify my feelings about nuclear power and to learn the facts and the issues as was the feelings that I had. Because people when you get really emotional about the reasons why you are against something people kind of pass off some radical fervor that young people are going through. And once you can really solidify your beliefs with facts and on people listen and they don't regard your action as frivolous I nationally do. I think that their whole approach is very un-American. They are approaching the problem in terms of violating laws. America wasn't built that way. You're not going to abide by the rules and the rule broke in this case happens to be the Constitution and the laws enacted by the Congress and by the state pursuant to the Constitution. That's the way you're going to have a Republican form of government.

What you personally think of the civil disobedience. I find it difficult to equate civil disobedience. The book is called the and it's a euphemism for breaking the law it is a need in the comfort to people who want to take to the streets. And once again I draw a distinction between whether or not it's done for the purpose of dramatizing the message of hope and hope that that may be the distinction that I'd be interested in seeing which is different and every act of civil disobedience that you probably can tell me about. We would find that the violation of some law. I just think that it's criminal misconduct. It has a historic tradition in American history particularly in New England.

Civil this being our country was probably founded on civil disobedience but you know the revolution is one of them being successful and actually test for the revolution and success. So if the demonstrators come back and come back aimed at forcing a result to post dramatising message a forceful confrontation is inevitable. And I believe that if they do as they've suggested in the past oh I haven't heard lately that will happen. And so it's not unheard of to and fro mob with firehall here again and it carries with it fossicking the it also carries with it a bad press of the state which appears to be using violence. But it is peaceful as opposed to clubs and bullets and it's nonviolent civil disobedience has a long tradition in American society.

It's first used at the Boston Tea Party and later the civil rights movement. What do you personally think of civil disobedience and express dissent. Here. We didn't have a look at it. You have to look at it historically. It started with the Boston Tea Party activists started before the Civil War the Revolutionary war started right here and we took over Fort William and Mary started a part of their school because everybody I think that says that they don't believe in it is wrong. The tenth article in the state constitution of the hitcher. There's increased violence but it tells in no uncertain terms that we can't live with the conditions that exist here. You're mandated to start a revolution so you can't you can't very well say that that. Well how do you feel about the kind of place where you should be demonstrating and on occasion if you get violent like. I would question the causes where these things happen particularly when everybody has only recourse as the courts now and

the liberal parts of that to say nothing of a very liberal one where you can really make changes and we've made changes in bridging that civil rights as an example. But you can go right down the line in many other areas where Big changes are made and with no violence just demonstrations and violent demonstrations. How do you feel about. People using civil disobedience as a way of expressing opposition to them. Man I've always felt that this country stood for freedom of speech. Now counted but it seems our days is just now. For once we have a controlling interest in big business or at least the politics too. There are all kind of hand in hand. I don't think the people have lost their voice just like in this town. We cast a ballot. The ballots are counted. Whatever happens is supposed to carry through is supposed to be a legal binding vote. And they look

at it as if to say hey I don't give a damn what people want. We're going to do what we want. And I think the only way the people are going to get a point across is to get together and just take what action is necessary. And I think the nonviolent approach to what is it frustrates the opposition because they don't want to do. We've just received a press release by Frisbie from some people who are being held in the

Portsmouth armory. It says For Immediate Release the Clamshell Alliance May 2nd 1977 8:30 a.m.. Apparently Steve Hilgartner took a typewriter on the bus with him so they're able to get releases out to people. Portsmouth New Hampshire the occupiers of the Seabrooke nuclear power plant site remain in good spirits while awaiting booking in the Portsmouth armory. The demonstrators have completely overloaded the state's law enforcement facilities. Many demonstrators spent the night packed in unheated buses and trucks in general both police and demonstrators remained on good terms. Quote The police have generally been friendly and deserve commendation for their professional and nonviolent conduct said Steve Hilgartner of the Clamshell Alliance Hilgartner added that the demonstrators sympathize with the police. Confrontation is not with the police but with public service company of New Hampshire. Gartner said. Can you tell me when you were taken off the site. We are taking up the fight at 12 o'clock last

night and I along with it until you were around until about 1:30. What kind of conditions have you been. What were you waiting. What are you doing between that time. Waiving all of our time is spent waiting yesterday day and even more waiting until something happened. How long were you waiting on the bus. We were in a bus. We were in a military truck. 21 of us in the back of a truck last night this morning and nobody's been dead since last night. We were taken out by the then. How long were you on the on the truck till 10 o'clock this morning. We didn't let you off the truck to go to the bathroom. If we had even then half a dozen sometimes about not letting. Us.

On the truck to 11:30 to one so that is my last 15 hours or something like that. We had no water no food. They were photographed and fingerprinted. My name is Raymond. I live in Seattle. I live here. Yes I did it. Any time anyone read you your Miranda rights. Never. Never. No for me. No you've never had you right. Never never never never never expressed to us. All they say we were under arrest for criminal trespass and that was it. And we've been in the truck until 11:30 this morning.

And at that time we I'm going. For I know phones are not being allowed to make phone calls. Are not being a lot of them if they ask for permission to go to the washroom they're not being exercised given they have nothing that and they say do nothing given linkable want to read their rights of a series of the abrogation of the Constitution going on in that building. I have to assume that Governor Thompson has some justifiable pride in the criminal justice system of the state of New Hampshire's right. Would you think that he is still very proud of the criminal justice system in the state of New Hampshire if it bogged down to this extent. Well I don't think it's bogged down. I think that the of this is more than a normal situation would think you would agree yourself to that. I.

Like. Demonstrations like the ones that pose a threat to the law and order. It's a question of if it were to continue or if we had not responded as we did. I think you might have found a number of these protests going on all over the country and you could have had some real problems. I think the way we handled that serve the rest of the nation well have no option other than to enforce a law. If we fail to do that then as a government we have failed. And you could have anarchy. A regular little city here it's a city and it's

a really it's also it's a school it's been a tremendous educational process for everybody involved. We've learned so much about you know coming together. It's pretty unusual to have 600 people from all different walks of life. Didn't know when they can just kind of get together and figure out a way to organize themselves. It's. Been pretty amazing and I've been living with this many people in one room. It's the feelings that you have. But living in this kind of a situation sometimes it would be nice to have this quiet space nice to sleep with the lights off for one night. Yeah. Based on. It's a chance

to. See amazing bunch of people and to have just to be so close to this many people day after day is. You really learn what sort of role the world. How would you describe them. Very good from what I saw in particularly the behavior and the and it was good they weren't docile in the sense of the word that you know very well behaved and educated to the fact of it was war. It was my first experience oddly enough with you. Do you think anybody live for 60 years would have exposure to a vegetarian choice a vegetarian other than diet a

medical diet or what have you. And oddly enough I ran a rascal for 25 years and I never come across a vegetarian in my life. I saw a lot of vegetable plays but never a vegetarian. And then suddenly this disappeared rather than the unusual way. My personal feeling was that somebody complained the mess people complained to the kitchen people complained that all the vegetables going on in the meat and meat was still there. And it finally turned out that a lot of people would eat nothing but vegetables. And then of course there were some orthodox type of vegetarians. One individual was going through the trash pile and when he was interrogated what are you doing here. The man says I'm looking for a union label for lettuce. So he evidently wouldn't mean anything but you union raised vegetables. What's been the relationship with the National Guard who are standing around here. They've been pretty dynamite. I mean they've done it individual

trade a lot of and don't like being here any more than we do. We're kind of in the same situation we do the same food. We're all here and I also began to raise the consciousness on a lot of people said what it's like to be incarcerated. And a lot of people were starting to make thinking and wanting to make the connections more with people who were serving time in county jails and prisons around this country and. People who feel oppressed here and yet realize you know from talking to others that this is pretty much a country club and any county jail in the state of New Hampshire you certainly can get to a state prison which is an absolute. You know what's going on to do other reads pretty much. We get notes from here sort of sub rosa notes from time to time and our impression

is that things are going real good. The things we're hearing coming out of Dover are incredible. The people are stronger than when we left. They send us happy joyous notes telling us to hold together. They brought us back together. The things we hear from some of the even better they've stood up to God. They've stood up to the National Guard and not allowed themselves to be segregated out from men to women. How did the guard change and how are you dealing with the guards. How are you going wrong in Dover they related to our organizational structure fairly well here. They tried to ignore it. They keep trying to ask us who our leaders are. It's hard for them to believe that people a number of people the number of people we have here can function without leaders sometimes we called on the people spokespeople sounds and switched them every day and they don't like us. I get the impression they don't like switching them all the time because they keep coming back to the person who is that was on the day before saying no no I want to speak to your leader over there and the person says no no I'm just a regular person today. He's our liaison if you want to speak to the liaison he can speak to them.

I get this many people leaving no jobs school whatnot. The situation about the bill solidary right now that people are holding out as long as they can and I think there are a lot of people here who have stayed out considerably longer than they ever thought they would. And it seems like there are about 350 people left here now from the 700 that were here a week ago. When people do leave. We don't view them as as leaving the group. We just used them as going outside and doing further organizing and supporting because we use that as a standing ovation to anybody when they finally have to bail out. It's a tremendous rush and people a lot of people would try not to have people feel that some people have real serious commitments. And what's been really incredible is to see people who. Have you know blown away their jobs going away in they're you know a lot of students that have thrown away a year's worth of schooling

and people that you know don't have a job to go to that have created you know family problems. I've got to hide my chips as a result of this. It's really inspiring to see people sacrifice that much. And it just it gives you a feeling knowing how powerful this movement is now and again it's not going to get stopped it's just going to grow. Yes. I mean the state's done everything they can to beat us back. But they haven't they just made us stronger it's going to backfire on them. And it's just. You know. You can. Control some jail time. Silence is take away our rights but I just know outside people know what's going on and people might think you're upset. They swirling around and asking.

Me is trying to tell. Me that it may. Not be. The case. He made. Me cry. By saying he's just you

know he. Probably is a guy by the guy at. See you I mean you. See by me.

I see what the key to the body. I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to. Recover and I don't know the future means a future means educating myself about about the most important issues that

affect my life. I'm looking for ways that include the wrong number of people to make those changes. It means not possibly accepting things because I feel I don't have the power to change them. It means instead of not looking at my weaknesses by looking at how much I can pull together to take a stand. I think this country felt so guilty after I dropped the two bombs in Japan that they thought that the Seattle for peaceful purposes and I really really believe that they could do this that would be good for mankind. And they didn't know at this stage you see the Kansas hadn't developed in a rational way. I thought they would be clean and cheap and so. And in 1952 Eisenhower made a speech to the U.N. saying we'll harness atoms for peaceful purposes. And it wasn't too many years later that we realized how terribly terribly dangerous that is.

And the Pentagon had to convince us that several public utilities to invest in run to get involved it's too expensive. But once having got involved and spending all those billions of dollars it's very hard to retract and say we were wrong. It's hard for the to say you're wrong. It's hard to say we've wasted a lot money. It's hard to say it but if it means the death of the rest of life on Earth we have to say to make it as simple as that simple it's not choice. I'm trying to save life all the time killing people. No. In fact if you look at it clearly they're long term matters is about be dead when the results of their actions occur. I think it should be the young people that are filed in. Because it's their lives that is going to affect.

And. I think people should join in and help them. I. Think they should help the young people all they can. What about some older people who say I'm 60 years old and who cares. Because I'll be gone if this ever happens. What do you think about those people. Well I never agree with them. Because I say I'm 62. And I'm still divided as long as I can. I don't think it makes any difference. And I think if everybody sticks together it counts a lot. If you were to what we're talking about but I was asked by several acquaintances of mine when I was going to do after I retired and I tried to be very serious we responded to them. By telling me that I did wished them to

pass it around. They became very attentive. They tried to really get it but that no one else could. And I said that I was very seriously considering an executive director of the show. What are you going to do with the building. What am I going to say right here. It's not going to destroy the but. We got our public servants came here and all public roads are gone. They're not going to scare me and I'm not going to vote for me. Like I said the only thing you have any of you here. The only. Thing we got wrong. But. I got married my wife and my wife we were going to we're going to stay right here. This is our home and we're going to stay right here. Right. I want to be buried on my land. I'm going to be

buried right here. Occupation the 2000 people here in the Saybrook site what does it mean. What does it mean about the power of people. We can determine our future that we can get together and organize and begin to change society and the world. And there's a lot of energy here to do that. There's a lot of energy and I don't think there's this much energy in the multinationals. There's just money. We do.

You say. You got.

The Stones.

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