High School Assembly; Defining Diversity

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and we are just delighted that joining us via the Information Highway, we've never done this before at High School Assembly, is Kataba Valley High School and Hickory. And I think they can hear us. Can you hear us, Kataba? All right, there's there. The miracle of technology. This is great. Also, if you at home in the viewing audience want to call in, let me give you that number. It's 1 -800 -555 -3120, and if you'd like to fax us questions or comments, we want you to do that as well. That number is 919 -549 -7070. And to lead us today, through all these issues, is Professor Chuck Stone, who if you don't know him yet, you're just about to have a wonderful time getting to know him. He is an internationally known author and journalist, and he also teaches journalism at UNC Chapel Hill, and it is always

a pleasure to have you here. It's a delight to be, it's a privilege to be with all these beautiful people here. Yeah, and one of the things that we had talked about earlier was a survey that was in the Washington Post, and you thought it said some interesting things about race. About who we are and who we think we are, it was a front page story in a Sunday edition of the Washington Post, the weekend before the Million Man March in Washington. And this was a national survey of all the Americans that said, what percentage of the population do you think is white? What percentage of the population do you think is black? What percentage is Hispanic or Latino? And what percentage is Asian? Now, this is a national survey. The white people said, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's see, do you think I want to guess here? What is the, what is the national percentage? The national percentage, what percentage of the American population is white, the national percentage? You might have a guess? Wait, wait, wait, wait, have a guess. What do you think? My guess will be about 50%. 50 % white? What do you think? You agree? 75. 75? Okay. What do you think? Do you like having the other stabs

at it? Okay. This is the guy that said he won't go to talk early. Okay. I think it's about 30, 37. White people, you're in trouble. You're in trouble? Actually, very few people got this right. In a very few. Yeah. Very few. Well, this young man here, it's 74%. Did you read the Washington Pass just now? What the white said, these are white Americans said there was only 50%. They saw Americans as being 50 % white. When it's 74 % white, the blacks are just as bad. They said 45 % white, and the Asians said 54%. The Asians were the smartest. They said 54 % white, and the Hispanics said 46 % white. But we don't know who we are. If we don't know what the population, we think that half the population is black or one -third is Hispanic or Asian, then we have problems with ourselves because America was essentially founded as a white nation. It really was, and white people have been in the majority, and this is not a pejor to a statement. This is just the demographic fact. So if you think that only 50 % of the

people in America are white, you say, gee, look at that, taking over the women and the minorities and the blacks. My God, there goes the country's going to hell because they're taking over. Then you feel insecure, but if you know exactly who we are in terms of our percentages in the population, you feel a bit more comfortable. And I think what it would disturb you, and it didn't disturb me, but was the inaccuracy of perceptions. We don't know who we are. Are those numbers changing a lot? No, this was as of, this was the 1992 census, and there was 74 % white, 12 % black, 10 % Hispanic, and 3 % Asian, and all four of those groups were way off in their percentages. They were way off. Now it does look a little different in North Carolina. North kind of says the black population in North Carolina is 22%, whereas nationally it's 12%. So, North Carolina is different. And I would suspect that North kind of also has a large Native American population, the Lumbee Indians and so forth. As for the Asians in Hispanics, I don't know the exact percentages in North Carolina. Now that would vary by

state, for example, in California, the Asians and Hispanics are pluralities of the population. And by the year 2005, California will be a majority Hispanic, Asian, and black population. Instead of California, the largest state in the Union. It would be very different. When I read that survey, what it kind of said about me is, is we just, we don't know each other, we don't have good perceptions about who we are and what's going on. And I started thinking about, do we really know each other in terms of just on a personal level, and do we have a good feel for who we are, each other, as groups sort of? And I wanted to talk about with you guys, because you're the experts, you're in the schools, and you know this. What your school situation is like in terms of different groups interacting with other groups. Like, what's lunch room? What's your lunch room like? Anybody want to talk about that? Tell me what your lunch room is like.

You hold this. Okay. All right. Well, I go to Chapel High School, and what I've noticed is that there's a lot of white kids whose parents are then have money to buy cars. So they can go off campus at lunch, and so I'm a sophomore, so I stay on campus at lunch, like I'm supposed to, and every day. And I look around, and the people that eat in the cafeteria is almost all African -American, and outside, it's almost all white, hardly anybody eats lunch together, you know. And, you know, it's mostly the white kids at our high school whose families have money to buy them cars as soon as they turn 16. Sit and now, tell me what your name is. Oh, I'm sorry, my name is Sandy. Sandy? Because Sandy noticed something interesting, too. She said, you know, all our studio audience members came in and sat themselves, and she was disturbed, because we kind of segregated ourselves when y 'all sat down. So that was kind of interesting here. My name is Kisha Carvin, I'm 10 -Jobber High School. I really don't think there's

the fact that black parents don't have money to buy cars. I think it's just the expense of going off campus to eat lunch is more than it is to eat at school. How long was lunch hour? How long? When they go off campus in 40 minutes and eat? We didn't have that ask you. Well, did you have a question back here? Did you hear that? How are lunches like? And it's like, we got, let me hold this so you won't move it around. We got a table for blacks, and then over here, we got a table for the whites, and then outside, people would just hang out together, blacks and whites. So, you know, it's mixed like that. Well, we actually have a clip from a front line, which is a public television show that they did at Berkeley High School in California. And we wanted to share what those kids thought about their classrooms and their lunch room, and that situation. Let's take a look at that.

Every fall for decades, Toga Day has been a tradition for Berkeley High seniors. Last year, Toga Day was renamed ethnicity day. People got upset about Toga Day saying that only white people could appreciate it. Yeah, they said Toga's were ethnicity day. I agree. It's a Berkeley High tradition. They should really read up on what the Greeks did because they were thieves and robbers, and they were just thieves and vandals. So, if they're identifying with that, you know, that just really shows the truth about what the school is about. And you see that we have our Greek gods right here that we have to be below every day. So, you know, this is this little psychological effects of things, you know. If ethnicity is, I guess you stress based on your heritage. I

feel that this is the appropriate side for an African woman. This is Africa. This is little Africa to me. That's Europe. I don't care to go over there. I stay here. Maybe snack bar, something like that, but that's about it. Yeah, I just like this because, you know, I'm politically active. I'm Chicano, right? Listen, just like, hey, hey, you know, we're really short pride and just, you know, kick it together, you know, the russ up on the Mexican and the La Fiesta. Well, it's kind of segregated. We got whites over there, blacks all, whites looking at the Mexican. The Mexican's over there. In other words, we call it France, Africa, in Mexico. Well, let's bring Cataba into this. Cataba. Tell me, what's your lunchroom like? What's it like on your school grounds and when everybody's just kind of hanging out on their own? Anybody want to answer? Well, it's like, um, the blacks sit together at the table and whites sit together

at their table, but mostly they interact sometimes, but mostly some people keep to their selves instead of, you know, communicating or whatever. Wow, we could just hear them, so beautifully. That's great. Thanks. Um, let me ask y 'all this, what is it like in your classrooms? Is it the same way? Hey, look, this background is going to be a gold line. Well, sometimes it tries to be that way. Like, on the first day, all the blacks might go sit together but then the teachers like move us around. So there's even a number of people everywhere. So you feel your classrooms are pretty diverse? Well, yeah, they're diverse, but okay. I think Cataba's got a question. Is it Mickey? Is that, did I get your name right? Tisha? In Cataba? Our Tisha. Our Tisha. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, it's not the same way in our classrooms. Everybody just sit together or whatever. It's not like white

people sit on one side and black people sit on the other. And do you feel that most of your classrooms have both blacks and whites and Native Americans and all the groups within the classrooms? I mean, it's not like, do you have some classes that are just all white people in some classes that are just all white people or anything like that? No, no, they're all, that's good. Okay, let me introduce you guys here because we have students that are all leaders at their schools and they're sort of representing groups for us and are going to help us along in this conversation. We've got Tim Brooks and you're with Pernell Sweat High School in Roberson County, right? In Ginny Chang, you're at Enlow High in Wake County. Alvin Sloan is at Wake Forest Rollsville, High School in Wake County. Summer Sanford is also from Wake Forest and Chantelle Ellis, you're from Cary High School, right? So they're going to be also talking about this. Are all your classrooms diverse in population?

I feel like in the classroom is one of the best times we had the opportunity to experience other people and their cultures. That's the chance we get to know them and that's, that's where we learn to understand other people. So you feel good about that? Definitely. About your classrooms. They had a problem when I watched this front line at Berkeley with the tracking system because they thought that really what tracking did was basically sort of segregate groups of people like the AP classes and those sorts of things and that was a big issue for them at Berkeley and it sounds like it's not as much of an issue with these. Oh, here, go ahead. Actually, I would say - Why am I going to get closer to you? Okay. It might be an issue at Chapel Hill High School. I'm in a lot of the quote accelerated courses and find that as a minority, I'm a biracial female that in most of my classes, there's only Caucasian whites. My teachers were required to do a survey and there were a couple, maybe four

Asians in my English class and I was biracial and the rest was white. So I find especially in the quote accelerated courses, it happens, it's very, very segregated. How do you feel about tracking? Well, let me go to, we've got a phone call. Is it Jason? On the line? Yeah. Go ahead. What's your question in your comment? Okay, I go to Frank Middle School and - What is that? That is a new world living in Kingston. In Kingston, near Kingston. A little place called LaGrain. Okay. And at lunch, there's like, I sit at a table at lunch and we have like, you know, we're not segregated but it's really sad because the rest of the lunch room is like half of it would be like African -Americans and the rest would be like white people and, you know, and it's like really, really, really sad. Yeah.

And so that's a problem you think at your school. Yeah, the big problem. Oh, well, I really appreciate your calling. Thank you very much. Go ahead. I'd like to go back to this Washington poster. When I first heard about this, I had the opposite reaction of you. What it says is white people think there are more black people in America than they really are. Well, couldn't you see, couldn't you say that this would seem that they're around more black people, the integration has worked? I think they turn on television. They see basketball, football, baseball, these black players. They see the entertainment and they say, boy, they're all over the place. I used to have a joke. I used to say that there's so many black kids in basketball that when a white guy scores a basketball, the automatically comes three points because they're so few of them. And I did that one of my colleagues said, that's racist and that's, I'm just kidding, I'm sorry. You know, but the point is the lack of human these whole things and I think that perhaps that's the perception. You see so many people in the South, like North Carolina, if they said 22 % they would be accurate. That

would not be national. Let me ask you this. Suppose we had a high school and in this high school, there are a bunch of Polish kids, Irish kids, Jewish kids, Italian kids, Czechoslovakian kids and there's some black kids and there's some Chinese kids and some Korean kids and Vietnamese kids. You walk in and you see all these white kids sitting together. But one table is all Irish. They celebrate St. Patrick's Day. One table is all Italian. They love Columbus Day. One table is all Jewish. They celebrate Rosh Hashan and Yam Kapoor. One table is all Polish. One table is African American, Chinese and so on. You wouldn't know that those white groups would you. You can just see white kids, isn't that right? You wouldn't know that they're Irish, Italian, Jewish, Poles. But we say white kids or we saw the Asian give all the Chinese kids are sitting together and the Vietnamese kids are sitting together and the Korean kids and the Japanese kids, we say all the Asians sit up by themselves. But those are four different groups. So we always do white and black. You know, the black kids are more visible except on the teams, the athletic teams are the most integrated of all.

Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about sports too, but before I do that, I want to make sure we include Kataba because Chris has a comment about diversity. Are you there, Chris? Yes, I am. Sure, go ahead. When I was going to my other school before I came over here, we was talking about mostly European culture, then any other culture, then when I came over here, it's just like a melting pot. We were talking about everybody, everybody else's culture and stuff like that. Now, where were you before? New kind of high school. Okay. And it's just a lot of things like it's where you at different schools teach different things and stuff like that. And at our school right now, we're going to talk about civilizations, the beginning of the civilization and stuff like that. And it's just different from my other school. Different in which one is better? I mean, which is one teaching you things that you think address who you are more than

the other? Well, yes, in a way like this one teaches more about other religions and cultures and stuff like that. Okay, and that's important. Yeah, I wanted to talk about that a little bit too. Let's go back to the whole sports issue, and I want to address that, Chris, in a couple of minutes. That's actually written on one of my cards about sports. I know that my husband remarked when we were talking about this, which we actually do a lot. The sports, at least in his life, was wonderful in that it was one of the few times that you saw wonderful teamwork going on and nobody, that wasn't an issue. And what it can do. It was sports where once there was one segregation, the NCAA, the final four, they have a booklet in the first, or I guess 30 years in NCAA, the team were all white, and you can suddenly see one or two blacks, then two or three, then four, then five, and it's changed. And I think sports has done more than

anything else to bring about integration in the South. I've been a major fact. I think people like Dean Smith, who's been a fantastic coach, but a great humanitarian, he's been active and so forth, and a Microsusky at Duke. And Duke is a good school there. They're okay. I knew that was coming. Good French school. But I mean, I think the issue is how well those teams play together. Look at those teams. There's no, isn't the question of color is we want to beat them. That's right. You ever can run the fastest, and you ever, and it doesn't matter anything else. You can scroll the most touchdown. That's the issue is athletic proficiency. And I think sports has been a major factor in our culture and bringing us together. Well, let me talk to you guys, because we haven't really talked about this, because we have people that aren't black and aren't white on our panel. And yet, do you sometimes feel frustrated that we tend to resolve around those issues? I mean, how do you feel about that? Why do you? And not once was it mentioned, like, yes, the white groups sat here and yes, the black groups on here. But what about the Asians? I said it. Okay. Thank you. But I think maybe it's because we are so underrepresented,

but I think it's still a major issue. And I feel as if it's always about the whites and the blacks. But what about the other groups? And I think it's important to bring it up, and it's not to make you should just throw away. And I feel as if we were talking about here. In our audience, there's another Asian person here. I'm the only one here. And is that like that a lot for you? Well, I'm lucky that I go to a high school where it's very, very diverse. I go to in like high school. I'm not sure if many of you heard of it. But it probably, as a high school, has a larger population of Asians, that's Indians, orientals, and a larger population of blacks and whites. And so what that does is because it's just a more people see it more, and they're more able to accept it. And in our lunch room, the times that I've been in, yes, you do get the black group sitting in a corner maybe, but it's all spread out, unless fairly crowded, but still people don't section themselves off. There are sections,

but I find that it didn't low. People are a bit more willing to accept it. Are there white, are there any tables where there'd be white, black, and Asian sitting together at one table? I eat with a lunch group like that. You do? I do. I mean, I might not eat in the cafeteria. There might not be room. I might be sitting outside, but that is a night with a lunch group that has the whites and the blacks and the Asians. I eat with more than one Asian, and there's something wrong with that, and it's fairly common to in -low, and I think, but maybe it's a very uncommon sight for other schools. Now, I want to get a question for me, but let me ask you real quickly. Was that a conscious decision that you made? I want to sit at a diverse lunch table. I don't, was it conscious or was it the natural flow of things for you? It kind of was the natural flow. I think, when they section themselves off, we know about community. Community of interest. Community of interest is because your friends are that way, but my friends are their white and their black, and that's why I sit with them. Now, if your friends are all black, then you would sit with them, and that's why when you go to a classroom,

you would sit with them also. You want to be with your friends. Okay, make a go ahead. In Kataba. I'm the only Asian at this school. I sit by myself while I eat lunch, you know, thing. And so, I mean, it doesn't matter who you sit with, they're all the same. How do you feel about being the only Asian? Do you wish that you had others that were? Yeah, I wish there was some others, but, you know, I guess, I don't know. Yeah. How many people at your school? How many Asians? No, how many people? How big a school is it? About 71. Okay, say first of all, school. Wow. Yeah, it sounds like you need to head over to In -Low. Sounds like that's what you needed to do. Here, let me get, there's two questions, hold on. Yeah, I go to Chapel Hill High School, and I too am Asian, and I find that, you know, what's been said is it's true. And I think the only thing is, in a way, it does being Asian and being sort of excluded from a lot of

issues and things like that, does make you more open to, you know, other people, and it does sort of, you hang out with people like Black, White, you know, whoever, because they're fewer people, like Asian people. Yeah, see, Jenny can see you, because you're behind her. Okay. Great. Here, well, let me get, let me go around and order outside. I wanted to go back to what Professor said about the sports teams. They picked those according to, they're, I don't really see it, I've never seen a racial thing that they picked those in, who can play. And just recently, I was taking the PSATs and there was a question on there before, like you started the test about, um, check this if you're Black, and if you want information on Black scholarships, and I see now, like, on the news on, uh, in college, they have to have a certain percentage or whatever has to be Black, or they have to save a space for them. I don't think they should look at race at all in that aspect. I think they should just go through the paperwork, look at the grades, and if they find what they're looking for, what is, what does it matter if you're Black or White? It

matters what, what you're going to be doing at that school. So you're talking about affirmative action, basically, programs. That's a good point. That's a sore point in America, right? Yeah, that's a big issue. You're not the big issue, right? Yeah. Do you want to go ahead and yeah, I have a room, I'm touched by just from chapter high school. I think that the reason, like during my lunch period, it is segregated, basically. I think it's because the communities, we come from, my community is Black, so you know, that's the way I have white friends, but you know, I hang around with people from my community. So I think it's from the community, from if it's mostly white, that's like the kind of people you're going to hang out with, because you know those people. And so when you see them at school, you're going to talk to them. If you're friends with them, that's the way I see it. Well, let me ask you this. Do you think it's bad? Do you think it's bad if Asian people hang out with Asian people and white people hang out with white people? No, I think it's who you're most comfortable with. If you're most comfortable with Blacks, then you shouldn't hang out with them. Don't make yourself uncomfortable and go into white crowd or Asian crowd or some other crowd that you really don't want to be around. So how many of you, give me a short, how many of you think it's bad?

If white people hang out with white people, white people hang out with white people, Native Americans hang out with Native Americans, and this sort of self -saggregation that we talked about, how many of you think that that's a bad thing? Raise your hand. How many of you think it's natural? I don't know how many of you think it's just natural to do that, just natural. See that? That's the way things are. That's not bad, it's natural. Right, here. Let me get. Okay, well, I just wanted to say something about how what Tasha said about not putting yourself in an uncomfortable position if there's people that you're comfortable with. And that, I mean, that makes sense to me, but in this society where people have been brought up to be comfortable with in certain groups, I think we're the people that are going to be affecting the way society is going to be when we have to live in it. And if we don't go ahead and make ourselves uncomfortable by hanging out with some people that aren't exactly like us, then it's going to stay that way forever, you know, and nothing's going to change. So I think sometimes you have to make yourself

uncomfortable and be willing to do things that aren't, you know. So you don't think it's always a good thing. Okay, we have some questions back here. Who did I go to? Okay. It doesn't matter who you sit with at lunch, long as you just eat. As long as you eat. Okay. It's a good point. What you do, I was curious how you would react to that question of whether you think it's a good or a bad thing. There's a growing movement now that maybe I've heard mentioned that all black schools might come back because that's a popular thing that that'll build strength in that community and it might be a positive thing, but ultimately, and I'll get to the one second. Whether we all sit at the lunch table together or apart, we're all going to have to learn to live with one another at some point. And I think that in schools, especially I'm interested in hearing about how you think you're treated there by teachers and principals and by each other and how you think what you study

affects sort of race relations and those sorts of things too. Because even if we're going to sit together at lunch, how important do you think it is that we learn about each other in the classroom? Go ahead. Okay. This is kind of you're talking about, I'm putting up with each, I mean, you know, integrating with everybody. My main thing is behavior. If I'm prejudiced against anything, it's about behavior. We were talking about this earlier and Professor Stone brought up, you said that the percentage of prisoners in jail, they're mostly - 48 % of the prison population is black. Right. And that goes along in the lines of what I'm saying behavior. There's certain ways that, and I tend to relate this behavior to blacks just because they're the ones in the classrooms that, you know, they're - I mean, she was, okay, gosh. She was talking about that Asians aren't really,

other races aren't really mentioned much. It's because they don't really create a problem. And I mean, I'm not, this is so bad. She's worried about this. I said, I want to come up like other races. Don't worry about this. But it's, you know, like I said, I'm prejudiced against behavior because there's, there's blacks in our school that are so, you know, that are violent, that are just obnoxious, that are, it's just - Other blacks who are not violent, who are not obnoxious, who are honest students and stuff like that. Right. And they get - And they get - The people that are, they don't act this way, the blacks in our school, they don't act this way, they - I've heard some of them get made fun. I'm like, well, you're not black, you're not this, and - You're acting white. Exactly. Exactly. And I just - But do you have to, do you have to behave a certain way to get noticed? And you're saying, because agents, they aren't noticed, because they don't behave a certain way, or they're not the ones. But, you know, it's still because we, because we don't make a big scene, it's not why we should be hidden. I mean, we should be - No, you're - Should we not be discussed? I'm not trying to - Well, I'll be a point, I'm just saying that - I don't think it's a

good question. She's just saying that's the reality of it, that just because that is - That's the cause and effect kind of relationship. Of course, now that my son is in New York City, he does those videos, you see on television, he's a director. When he goes into the department store, he's two or three of his friends, they get followed around. And yet they don't know that - Fun? Everybody gets followed around. You get followed around too? Because, you know, they thank young people still here, nine days, we're the ex -generation. We're about nothing, you know what I'm saying? They - They don't - They don't think of us as nothing, and I think that we need to change the world and get together, because, you know, we all sitting together, there's white girl with a black girl, and, you know, everybody hanging out, you know, we just call it kicking in and representing. Showing out? Yeah, and that's what we're doing nine days. Do you think the white kids, if a white kid goes into the department store, the white boys get followed around as much as the black ones? Yeah, I mean, you know - We still get to find by color anyway, any way you put it, because she's still going to be an Asian, and I'm still going to be a black, and she's still going to be a white. You know, it's just, you know, we - We're going to

see what he - Okay, wait, oh good, she's got a mic over there. Go ahead. She said about blacks acting, obnoxious and rude or whatever, but why - Okay, we're supposed to be here to discuss diversity, but you can't just pick out one group and show that they act rude, because everybody has different behavior, everybody acts rude and obnoxious. It's not just the black people. Exactly, I want to - I think she was saying they have a tendency, they're more blacks doing that disproportionately. Exactly, anybody would like that. That's what she meant, I think she was trying to - She's still having a comment. Yeah. Did you still have a question? Yeah. Oh, well - Wait, no, I can hear you. Hold on. Back to the classroom scene. Every year, I'm putting a class one with all whites, and I'm usually the only black. Like, right now, I'm in a class one with all whites, and I'm the only black. I try to go out my way to fit in that classroom, but I'm still uncomfortable. And I like - I have, I'm not racial, I mean, races or anything, but I'm more comfortable with black

people, and I tell my counselor, I'm ready to get out that class, because I feel they're looking at me. If I make a mistake, you'd be like, she's black, she made the mistake. I feel that way. I don't want to feel that way, but that's just the way I feel, and it's just uncomfortable to me. It's just a special class. No, it's a graphics class. A graphics class. OK, I mean, every year, since I've been at high school, I've been putting a class where I'm the only black, you know, so it's uncomfortable. Sorry, I don't want to lose. And let's get a comment from - Is it Shivon? Hi, go ahead. I'm sorry to keep you waiting. I want to talk about the teachers at high school, how they deal with racial stuff. Well, I think faculty at this school, they're great, I never heard of saying races, things about anyone, you know. And I just think, they treat everybody, they treat all students with the utmost respect, and I like that. Oh, that's great. That's terrific. I'm sure Katava's thrilled that

you said that. They ought to feel good about themselves, but you guys have had your - which ones did I get you last? OK, good. I think it's, basically, people judge people the way they look, because, yeah, the way they dress and stuff, somebody might judge me and think, like, from me walking around the school, they might think I'm some kind of troublemaker, but not get good grades, and I got good classroom conduct, and I think a lot of people should look past what you have on, and try to actually know about - The clothes than anything else, and sort of the way you present yourself, is that what you're saying? They might think you behave a certain way, because you dress it certainly. Well, that leads me - there's another clip from Frontline, and there's someone on it that's talking about how she thinks teachers have a certain expectation from her, just from looking at her. So let's roll that real quick. I'm going to taste it. No, no, no. Oh, yeah, it was. No, it wasn't. Thomasine Wilson has been teaching in the history department for 32 years. She also heads Berkeley High Staff Senate, a group that is often at odds with Jim Henderson.

OK, he's dreamed all of us, right? How are we going to - I want you to get back to the point, the original point, which from which we have strayed, and that is your sense of how people in authority here, teachers, counselors, administrators, classified people you have to deal with, how they either make you feel okay about who you are, or don't. I think that teachers sometimes pre -judge their students before they come into class, like me being African -American, black. I come into class and the teacher, like it's a new teacher, they assume that, well, she's African -American, she's probably not serious. And then until you take your first test, or until you take some kind of test in the classroom, they're going to think, well, she's not serious. You have to sort of prove to them that you're ready to learn. I think it's very hard if you're not a person of color. Exactly. And I'm - Were you going to - Were you going to

be my son made over there? And I'm not saying - And I'm not - Scary, isn't it? No, listen though. All right, you guys. Hold it for a sec. And I don't want to lay a trip on white kids because I think a lot of trips are laid on white kids at Berkeley High School. But if you're not a person of color, it's sometimes hard to understand how people of color respond to situations. I think - I think you're in Berkeley. I don't know if I should say this because I'm white, but from where I see it, from where I - from my friends see it, it no matter what color they are, is that - that people tend to like, racism here is a buzzword. If you say racist, also you're right. You're - And you're pointing the finger that - that you can - and - nobody questions that. Do you understand that the way you look gives you - steps up that

other people don't have? Christy, you understand? Me - I'm - I definitely - I don't think about it. But from where I see society, it's not - it's not like the oppressive system that's super racist on everybody. I mean - Okay. The way I see it. Okay. I - Wait, what are you trying to explain to me? We deal with some parts of our student body very successfully. And I'm talking here about a white - middle - upper -middle -class kids who have academic ambitions. We don't deal - I don't - I think with our middle group very successfully, they kind of lost them. It's shuffle. And here you have all kinds of kids represented. And I'm not sure that we deal with the ones who are suffering most - educationally and socioeconomically and ethnically - successfully. We're working at it, but I don't think that we've hit it yet. Nikki, you have a

question in Katava? Yes. Before I came here, I was a student at Hickory High School. And I feel like all teachers, they treat students the same. But when I got here, I feel like I received more treatment, you know what I'm saying? Like - No, what do you mean? They tend to have more time for me and stuff, meaning like, I get more help on my work when I need it. And whenever they, like when teachers at the school have substitutes, those students tend to act, you know, act different and have, I say, behavior problems and stuff. This is a great plug for Katava. Those teachers are - are delighted with this. Thanks. Well, let's get back to something that we saw in the video with the girl kind of addressing what you were talking about. Let me ask you, or anybody else for that matter, do you think when people see you, they have a different expectation for what you're going to be like?

And because of that, they treat you differently. I could tell you that right off the bat, yeah, because, you know, I'm a type of person. I don't like dressin' on suit. I like to not keep my hair colors on time, and we all do that. You know, I like to sport the drill out when I can, and you know, be myself. And people in your individual, some people don't like it. It's like, they want us to all be the same, walk around in the suit, be the best dress, the best this and that, but it's not always what you want to be. It's, you know, it's not what they want you to be. It's what you want to be. So you think, do you think because they have this idea of what you're going to be like? Do you think that affects what you are indeed like? Does that make sense? I mean, really, I don't care. I mean, not to say that, like, I'm saying that because I don't care what anybody thinks of me, it's because it's the shoes I walk in on my shoes. They ain't nobody else's. And nobody. I mean, I care, but it's at the point in my age now. I

really don't care whether they think that I'm going to act violent or not, because when I get up there to show them how I'm going to act, that's the proof positive. I mean, it's not what they perceived me to be or anything like that. I think it's a question of stereotypes once again, that we all have them, like being an Asian person, and then I keep on bringing that up, because no one else can really give comments about that. You've been smarter than I was, don't they? Everyone, how many people in the audience think that if you see a Chinese person, they're going to be smarter in math and science or something like that? Would you do it? Raise your hands, because you know you believe that. But on the SAT scores, nationally, Asians are the only group that score over 500 as a group on math. They have the highest SAT score. But what I'm saying is that everyone expects you to be smart. It's, let's say you're in a classroom when you get in with a group of people and you're working in groups. Everyone expects you to do a lot of the work, because oh, you're the smartest one. You're the most hardworking. So you get to do

it all. Or, and people think that. And it's a lot of people are expected to be that way. They kind of have to fit the, I have to be smart in math. I have to be smart. I have to be smart every day. They play the valiant. Or play me as a customer. Okay. Here, let's get you're coming. Back to the close thing about how you appear to people and people categorize you. That's happened to me before, because I've gotten pulled over by the cops just because I had a certain sticker on my car. And they thought I was like, are we all curious about this? Yes. I had like a mushroom sticker. And just because, yeah. And just because I had. Like, it was much for me. Yeah. It's just like a little troll sent on the mushroom. And just because, I mean, he thought he like apologized in everything, but he thought I was like some drug abuser or something. So you kind of felt that way. Oh, I look like I see that. Yeah, I see that. Like, yeah. You get. I was going to say also about this stereotyping thing with a big part of its music. If you're going down the street and you're playing a rap, you know, your parents or elders, whatever, they'll be like, stay away from them because they've got guns and they're going to shoot you.

If you're playing heavy metal, you know, stay away from them because they're going to steal your soul and eat you or something stupid like that. And if you look at it, about 99 % of the adults, that's what all of them think, exactly. They don't actually listen to it and get. I mean, some of it is that way, but a lot of it really has meaning if you listen to it. All right. I think is this a heavy metal band you have on your shirt? Yes. Okay. Just started. We got to get the top in a minute, but go ahead. I had like a similar experience, you know, with the stereotyping, like, joy did. When I had my long hair, you know, I'd have people asking me if I listen to heavy metal or if I was a devilish person or something and I had a bunch of Christian or minister people, you know, passing out tracks to me. It's definitely not. I think, I don't really think, you know, nobody can escape stereotyping, I think, everybody. But this is my question for you guys. This is what I'm interested in. Do you think that your behavior changes because of what is constantly people think? I have this notion that

we kind of do what's expected of us. Whether that be good or bad, we just naturally do that. So my question is, in some ways, I'm wondering, you said it doesn't bother you, but ultimately I think that as a, it's very negative for us all because we tend to behave. If people constantly think you're going to be some way, I think you have a greater tendency to end up being that way. Tell you right now, when people think you're going to be the way they're going to treat you that way, so you're going to act that way. Okay, it's like a system. You walk on a clash, something you're going to teach it. Know as you, or the teacher says something smart, you're going to act out because you're getting treated wrong. You know, if we all got treated like people and not like dogs or are like an animal or something that people are afraid of going to bite them, you know, treat me like you would treat that girl or treat me like anybody else. Don't treat me like I'm some, you know, big old rock while I'm just going to bite because I'm not your big teddy bear. Well, on that chopper high,

you have to go and get yours. There's nobody there to tell you what to do. There's nobody to pet you. And so me, I think that it kind of helps me to see, for people to see me as being lower than I already am. Because when I go to advanced classes, I'm not, I'm the only black person. That's what I expect. I know that that's how it's going to be because it's so competitive at chopper high to be successful and being advanced or accelerated programs. And so it really doesn't matter to me what people think of me. I'm going to, I feel like I'm going to get what I'm thinking. It only matters what you think about you, right? Okay. And I think, since my mom told me all the time, as a minority, to be average, we have to be above average. Right. Okay, Tremaine, are you there in Kataba? Yes. Go ahead. Whenever when you go someone, I was going to have a preconceived judgment about who you are, but your actions, you just have to prove them wrong with your actions and let that person see who you really are inside. Because you know, you can look good outside, but you know, you have to show yourself improve and let them know, hey, I'm ready, you know, I'm ready to do business, you know. And you look

very nice, Tremaine. But thank you, Tremaine. Go ahead. Anybody, whether they be black, white, middle -class, lower -class, starts to categorize people other than themselves. They're going to, they're going to be problems and they're going to be misconceptions. I mean, I'm a white, female, and I'm upper -middle -class, but I mean, that doesn't mean that my mom, dad brought me a brand new 95 car and that, I mean, that doesn't mean that, I mean, I don't fit into like one stereotype of a person. And when you start to do that, you lose out on a lot of things. Nobody likes to be stereotyped. And I mean, I think that that's kind of sad that people do that. Let me ask you all this. We talked a lot about sort of things that are wrong and problems that exist. What do you think that you can do individually to help this problem? Well, I think it's natural that people stereotyp type other people. I mean, it's just like an excuse not to think or something. Professor

Stone brought this up earlier. Jesse Jackson made a speech a couple of years ago where he said that if he was walking on a street by himself and he saw two young black males approach him, then he would be scared. He would cross the street. And well, maybe that's something to do with disproportionately larger number of black people. Commit crimes than white people. So it's just a natural thing that you're going to think more, how should I put this? More black people commit crimes. So you're naturally going to think that if you see two black people coming towards you, then you're going to be scared, right? Unless you decide to think about this and say, well, probably they're not going to do anything, right? Right. You see, oh, you haven't talked. Oh, I want to say something about my man on TV. He said, oh, you have to prove yourself. Why did you have to prove yourself to somebody? I mean, you just be who you are. You can't prove yourself to anybody. That's right. Because what you're saying is you

don't think that you should have to prove yourself more than anybody else does. That we should all start off on the level playing field. Okay. I think I went to. Okay. My name's Jay, and I represent Wake Forest, right? And I'll just say that. But people treat you by the way you dress. If you dress like a bum, you get treated like a bum. You dress nice, you get treated nice. Now, what do you say to the man who he recently did? What's his name, Professor Stone? And that I think he teaches at Harvard. And he did the big undercover thing at one of New York's most exclusive private clothes. Oh, yeah, I just ran. It's a book and he was in the paper. He went to the best restaurants in New York City and he had difficulty getting seated. And then he's dressed up. He's always, he comes in looking very Ivy Lee. He wears horn rim glasses and so forth. And he's found that he is ignored. And any black man in New York City who wants to get a cab going to Harlem will not be picked up, try it. If you're black and you said, you put a, I put a brief case

out there and so forth and they'll go buy it. They don't want to go to Harlem. That's right. So that this happens and I've been stopped by police in Washington, D .C., wearing a Chesterfield coat. I was like, look how nice. And I got stopped by a policeman and Beverly Hills that was working. I got stopped by a policeman in Boston. Yeah, so it might go beyond that. I wanted to end today and we're getting ready to wrap this up. If each of our panelists and we'll say V for last, for us to say, could talk about this whole issue? Because I think it's really important that we act on the things that we've talked about. If you all can say some things that you plan on doing or maybe you are doing, or things that you think individuals can do to help this situation, go ahead and start to him. As all the different cultures there are, it felt like we need to talk to somebody of a different culture. Draw something from that. Draw something positive that we can add to ourselves into our own course to build ourselves up and grow. Jenny, I think it's important to keep in open mind. I think it's the most important thing you can do as opposed to stereotyping

or it's very, very hard to do. And I find myself doing it all the time. But I think what I'm going to try to do is really hardly is to keep an up in mind. When I look at someone, not to judge them and not to wait for them to prove something to me, I hate above anything else having to prove to someone that I can do this. If they look down on me and saying like, there's no way you could do it. I hate to have to prove to someone that I can do it. And now I have to show you. Why do they have to do that? And why do it to other people? I think it's important to keep an open mind. Well, you hear a lot of stuff about what wide America thinks about something, what black America thinks about something. There's only one America. And there's only one type of people in America. Americans. And if we'd start thinking like that instead of thinking this person's black, this person's Asian, American, this person's white, then we'd all be better off. Okay, go ahead, Senna. Okay, that was okay. We're closing, right? All right,

I guess just to, it's hard. But gosh, okay, just to look at people and ignore their colors, ignore anything, keep an open mind. Well, I mean, visually, no, it's not possible, but if I just have expectations of people that, you know, and I appreciate people to be something that they're, they're usually not. And I, I don't know, just, I have to keep an open mind. I do have an open mind and I'm just, I'll side with her, open mind, keep that. Okay. Okay. True that I'm going to start it off like that, because, you know, you just got to keep it real. And by saying that, I mean, just be yourself. I mean, if you get along with this certain group, get along with that group. But you can't, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it. Right. So, you know. How many of you would like maybe try to

go meet other people in your, or put yourself in association with other groups that you might not normally hang out with tomorrow at school? You think that'd be positive? All right. To get, make that a tip. So, well, let's close with the professor Stein. Well, before I got married, and this was about 40 years ago, and that was when Thomas Jefferson was president, I was working for care, and I worked in Egypt and in India. And when I was in India, the vice president, Roder Christian one said, we must learn to enjoy each other's proximity. And I spent my life trying to enjoy each other's proximity. I don't care whether you're black, white, Asian, Native American. I have, I wear a pin in my lapel. The United States is called a people pin. Has red, black, white, yellow, brown. These are the five races of the world within the United States. We're all people. It's hard. It's very, very difficult, sometimes to transcend race. The difference of opinion on the old Jade, verdict, black and white. The whites, the whites said, oh my god, he's guilty. The blacks said, hey, we did it. You know, there's a division. There's a million man march, Farrakhan. All of these things are worrying us. But in the final

analysis, we still come back what I call the political center. I can go back to the black power movement, the Dixie Cratt party in South Carolina, and the South of the race rides in 1967, and Detroit, Newark. You get America's still a stronger country. Back in 1948, I was the only black student, or as Muhammad Ali would say, the only black student at my university, Wesleyan. This year, I was a commencement speaker, and there were 69 blacks, three of them were five -bit at Kappa. So I can see change taking place. One of the troubles of being my age, I'm 71, is that I'm a congenital optimist. I've seen so many wonderful things happen in this world. Good things. My daughter just had a baby. She, the first baby, my oldest daughter, her name is Krishna, and the father is Irish. There goes the neighborhood. But so when we celebrate St. Patrick's Day, we'll call it Irongo Bro. But that's part of my kids are in extension of me, and as they are all, they know that there's, I said my kids, don't forget their differences. Just don't let it make a difference. We're all, look at us all here. We're all different. And there, we'll, we'll, we'll, we will cling together. Sometimes the white kids will sit with the white kids and the

black kids sitting in the, and the Asian kids in there. When I was in junior high school, I was an honest student. I was the only black honest student. I looked at the white kids. I used to get beat up regularly, because will we how it say, you think you're white, don't you? And then knock me down, because I was an honest student. I suffered for being outstanding. But I knew that one day, I would succeed. So if you make your mind, as she said, behavior, it's what you're looking at is behavior. Cleave to the white kids, the best kids. Remember, you sports as, as a, as a paradigm as a model. The best athletes are the ones that make the first teams as we want. Say that one more time. Don't, about the difference. Don't, don't forget their differences. Just don't let it make a difference. Oh, I like that. Well, we've got one more saying. It's a Tao saying. And it says, to look is one thing. To see what you look at is another. To understand what you see is a third. To learn from what you understand is still something else. To act on what you learn is all that matters. So I hope that everyone here and everyone

that watched will act on what they learn and what they know is right. Because that's the most important thing. That's the only thing that's going to make a difference. And I do believe that it's, if each individual in this room and that's out there watching, acts on what they know is right, things will get a lot better. Before we go, why don't each of us, as we leave, hug the person next to you. Oh, and you do it at home. And do it out in the viewing audience. Thanks for being with us. We're joining us for High School Assembly. Closed captioning of this program on UNCTV is made possible in part by a grant from the Jenner Foundation. I

hope you enjoyed this program. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank

you. Thank you. Thank you.