Values and Teaching in General Education Program; Dr. Denise Carmedy

[Foster] Welcome to University in Your Community. My name is Louis Foster and today we're concluding our three part series on values and teaching. We've been talking to 2 professors here at Wichita State University's faculty and today we're going to speak to Dr. Denise Carmody, associate professor and chairperson of the Religion Department here at Wichita State and we've been kind of comparing and contrasting views on the idea of values in teaching at universities and first I would like like to thank you very much for a coming by and being on the show. [Carmody] You're welcome. [Foster] First of all, as just kind of an opening remark type of thing, when we talk about teaching values in the classroom, what does this mean to you? [Carmody] I'm glad you said, "What does it mean to me?", because that's obviously, in a sense, a very personal question. To me, when you are talking about teaching values in a classroom, you're really talking about the issue of what- if i can use a bit of jargon, and I'll explain it- what perhaps the scientists would call a nice amorphism between what we

know and what we do. The real focus in the university is on what we know- on trying to help students reach their intellectual potential. Right? That, to me, is paramount; I think that that there is our first value, if you want, is also going to be an intellectualist one. But I believe its important that the second be given some consideration, too, and that is that students be helped, at least, and given the tools for being able to move from what they know to be the right thing to the ability to do the right thing to follow through on it. And obviously that's the hard thing, but that's where I think teaching values comes in. [Foster] I see. In the new General Education program, which is what this whole series of interviews has been about, it suggests that students should have a conscious commitment to a set of values. Now, how do you interpret this objective?

[Carody] Well, let me tie it to the latest question and then move it a little further, perhaps. I would maintain that, in an academic setting, what the obligation, if you want, or the efforts of the of the university should be would be toward giving students a knowledge of the values, alright? Or at least a value system. At least exposing them very concretely to values as they are and that has to be concretized, of course. For instance one of the areas where it can be concretized, I think, is in an area like the humanities, where in the literature, in through history, through philosophy and religion, the inherited values of the past are both scrutinized and are studied. That's one dimension. Then the other part, again, this conscious commitment, as you quote, to a set of values, that both is

harder and is- i still think- the obligation of the university to attempt to do that. Now how much a student will adhere to that, becomes, of course, a matter of his or her personal choice. What I see the university is obligated to, insofar as it can, is to give the tools for critical analysis; to give give students the actual experience in and the ability to make value judgments. [Foster] Do you feel that there are some values that are possibly seen as being better than others in a university setting? [Carmody] Yes, I think that, well concretely, as it gets lived out, at least in the the several universities where I've been, the intellectualist value is primary, it seems to me, as I look at my experience. So the emphasis on intellectual integrity, the

emphasis on intellectual excellence, alright? For instance, also, there is, I think in academia, it's usually rated higher to analyze than it is to synthesize, alright? Concretely, again, not saying this is the way it should be always; it's usually a higher premium is put on criticism than on creativity. Now, insofar as your just saying, "What are the values?", that's, I think, not necessarily bad in any way and I think it is the actual case. Now whether or not you obviously can move to a worst time scenario, if you have a place in the university or any other educational institution, where not only is analysis important but synthesis is never looked at. Not only we are criticism is important but creativity is demerited. So, the balance is necessary, but i do think that there is an inherent

emphasis on this first part of the polarity that I mentioned. [Foster] But it is important to realize that they both are- [Carmody] They both are, yes- [Foster] Although maybe one might be a little more. [Carmody] And, as you can see, the second each time is harder in many instances. It's easy to teach facts; it's harder to teach the creative integration of those facts. [Foster] It seems like it is somewhat of a second step, almost; it's so much easier to just criticize someone else's views- [Carmody] Exactly. [Foster] But to go beyond it- and think of something-another alternative-it makes it a lot more difficult. [Carmody] If I can can interject here, there are movements within a university, not just this one but across the country, toward that more integrated kind of education and it's often under the rubric of interdisciplinary; you know those sorts of things where- as you already know by nodding at that word- it's almost a bottom line given that you're going to build and the synthetic in your approach. [Foster] How do

you measure the degree to which- is there any way of measuring whether or not a student has really developed a conscious commitment to values? [Carmody] I think that one can measure the intellectual component there. In other words, if a course, say a course in religion- in world religions- if the part of course has been the laying out of the value systems in Buddhism, in Confucianism and Christianity, etc., you can certainly test the way you test on anything for knowledge, you know more or less well about how much that has been mastered. The second part, the commitment, you know, no, I don't think so. I think that's that's- we would then become, it seems to me, the the university would become a church if it tried to do that- using that term "church" loosely, but that idea. [Foster] Should this be important as far as, say, a student graduating, or not?

Again, we're talking about the difficulty of measure. [Carmody] Again, I would still hold, I think, they could and should and, I think, usually are held to the intellectual component, you know. Do they know the material? But to the other, no, because again I think you're back into the same problem- you're not in an academic setting then, it seems to me, anyway. [Foster] I'd like to kinda deal with maybe a couple of issues that can kind of cause problems with professors in dealing with values. First of all, the idea of a professor revealing his or her own value structures or preferences to students in the class. Do you think that this is unavoidable, or do you think that it is necessary, or . . . ? [Carmody] I think that it can be quite appropriate, and at the same time, as a good academician I'll have to say it can be quite inappropriate, but let me enlarge on that. If the kind

of course or the needs of the students merit it, I think it's quite appropriate, I think, to reveal what your own values are- where you place your your importance, etc. i would expect that a professor who is mature enough to be a professor would be able to nuance that said it was not proselytizing, it was not in any kind of manipulative situation, you know? I think that, in truth, students have somewhat a right to that if they ask, for instance, and it's appropriate, you know? I've had, if i can use a personal experience once, I have had the thing of students asking me if I'm a Christian. Well, I don't know whether i would be obliged to answer that or not, but in truth, I've answered, "Yes.". When they've pressed farther- and it's only happened once or twice- I will say, "My tradition is Roman Catholic.", and I have had a

student or two, not of course at this institution, say, "Oh, I'm so sorry; I thought you were a Christian.". So, there are times when education is almost vital for one to even begin to move in the classroom, but so that also leads me to the point that's why some people would refrain from answering any questions, you know? The teacher has rights, too. But my final point on that would be that, if it is really appropriate, if it is a place in the whole educational millieu that you're trying to create and the kinds of materials that that you're dealing with with the students, I think that a professor who refuses to reveal runs a certain risk that they are revealing, you know, to the students, by either the tacit sort of thing that they have no values or that, for whatever- you can see again [Foster] Wishy-washy. [Carmody] Wishy-washy. So, it needs a lot of careful thought, I think.

[Foster] Yeah, I think it's a very fine line type of thing. [Carmody] Yes, exactly. [Foster] Another question that a lot of people have this is the idea of a state university being involved with all in the development of values for a student, but obviously the way you've talked in earlier questions, it seems like it's a very appropriate thing or very necessary part of the education. [Carmody] Yes, as long as it does not proselytize; as long as there is no effort to put across one set of values as the only one, you know? And ultimately, too, I think that what a university is all about is the effort to provide the students with the critical tools for arriving at their own value judgments because that's the only way it is going to be meaningful, you know? We really only learn when we appropriate the material or the ideas and then they become our own. Otherwise it's just something that sort of poured on for the test and it's quickly forgotten. [Foster] And another aspect, as far

as setting of values is so much of that is done before the student even gets to college that- [Carmody] Yes. [Foster] . . . you really can't change a whole lot, I mean as far as being just a professor. [Foster] Another thing that has just developed recently with the changing of enrollment are the influx of foreign students coming into all universities and here at WSU, especially. There are a lot of different value standards with peoples across the world. How do you how do you deal with this in trying to work with these students? [Carmody] Well, I haven't had a great deal of experience there; I have heard other professors talk about that- that other students- some students- would feel that certain kinds of activities, for instance, are not really cheating, but it is helping one's compatriot- doing term papers together or that sort of thing. I think that on one level, what we need is more not

more information about the cultures and the ideas expressed in those cultures from which these students are coming, and I think that our own WSU foreign student association group- I'm ashamed to admit I don't have the exact name here on the tip of my tongue- but I think they do a fine job there. I think that they work with the students and make it a two-way street. They try to help the students- foreign students- understand what kind of a value system they're coming into, at least academically- what the rules are. And I think that they've made a good amount of progress toward educating those of us on the faculty about these value systems and how they differ. So I would just urge that that continue. I think we need, as professors, to be aware that we must look deeply before we make judgments. Then, the other side, in the classroom, I think, at least I try to be, for all my students

quite clear about what the standards are that I would expect them to adhere to Now, I know that you're looking at something much broader in the sense that then, apart from, say, classroom behavior and those sorts of things, other values in the society- my only solution there is that when we are into areas that touch on varying values or values that we might take for granted here and another country might not, I try to encourage- and this isn't always too successful- other students to speak up about their value systems, too. [Foster] We are just about a time, but I would like to quickly get one more question in. How do you feel about WSU's ability to teach about values? [Carmody] Right. I don't think there's any lack of ability there. I think the professors would have that ability- that competence to do it- they certainly are in their own disciplines well trained. I would just not be able to answer and maybe would have some questions about willingness to do it; I think that

that's a an area that, maybe as a faculty, we should talk more about among ourselves so that either the fears of it of the excesses of it can gotten out there and looked at it. [Foster] Okay, well thank you very much. I'd like to thank Dr. Denise Carmody, associate professor and chairperson of the Religion Department at Wichita State for being my guest and talking about values and teaching. Thanks a lot for coming by. [Carmody] You're welcome. [Foster] This has been University in Your Community. My name is Louis Foster. We've had technical assistance from James McFadden and the Noon Edition will continue after this.