Connections: Building Bridges To Adulthood; Pt 2, no music

You adult spend a lot of time in money helping young people but they sometimes forget that there's an inexpensive resource available other young people. Many young people say that other young people are a major influence on their lives. Here with us to talk about here connections are Grant Thomas and Walter Hollens. Walter Hollens has been director of training for the Center for Educational Development. He has also been the director of Human Development and Information Centers in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He has counseled

high school dropouts and programs sponsored by the Department of Labor. Grant Thomas founded and coordinated the peer assistance and leadership program in the Austin Independence School District. He is now the coordinator of peer assistance network of Texas. Before we talk about peer assistance with Grant and Walter let's look at the story about a group of young people who are dedicated to being a positive influence on their peers. Their motto is lean on me. There's a class at LBJ High School in Austin that teaches students something they can't be learned in a classroom. How do how can differences of opinion be helpful? These students are learning through personal experience that caring about other people brings its own reward. The class is part of a district-wide program called PAL. PAL stands for peer assistance leadership. Twice a week the PAL class from LBJ High goes to Pierce Middle School to meet with kids who could benefit from the influence of an

older friend. Sandy Martin, an LBJ senior, says that PALs aren't supposed to be counselors, but that supportive listening is just as good. You know we as PALs can never force our morals on another person. We're not there to give advice either. We're just there. We're not there to counsel. We're just there to be friends and to talk to them as a friend we talked to another friend and you have to be caring. You have to be a caring person. You have to care about others and be friendly. Just be yourself. That's one of the most important things. It shouldn't be anything superficial or something that's an effort for you to do. It should come naturally and should be proud of that. Back at LBJ principal Dorothea Rebo says that the PAL connection between LBJ and Pierce has turned her students into a valuable resource. It just makes it nice to have another person that you can refer that student to that is not an adult that will help him out or to give

him some directions and help him with whatever the problems may be. It makes administration easy. Pier helping programs have been set up in school districts throughout the state. At retreats like this one in Athens, Ken Serrano and his staff trained students in the art of helping people help themselves. Like I know Ward, my man, he's not going, man I can't wait till I'm like 14, 15 addicted to alcohol. It's going to be bad. You know he's not doing that in the sixth grade. And I know none of you girls are going, God, I can't wait till I'm like 13, 14, have my second kid. It's going to be bad. But real life is different because we have different pressures because we don't have some support because we think and we think that might be the right thing to do or we have different experiences that might make us turn in the right direction. So one of the biggest things that you can do is peer helpers is listen and give people to think about what they're doing. At this retreat, Ken organized an activity to demonstrate the power of positive peer

pressure. A student was sent outside while the others decided on what they wanted to get him to do. The trick was they could influence him only by clapping. What he's going to do, he's going to walk in there, he's going to have to walk through these chairs. Alright, that's it. Through here and go right here. Step on, no. And he's going to have to sit on his lap. You just depend on us, the group, to get you there. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And listen for the apps.

Back in Austin, pal trainer Steve Medell and Greg Aguilar are trying to be a positive influence on a kid named Rico. Rico got into trouble and was suspended from his home school. Today, the three talked about what things were like at that school. He, me and my friend John, who come to school, right, and he said, Rico, John, come here. He called us over there. And he said, look, guys, I got a gun. My friend didn't believe him. I know I believe him, because that guy, huh. He's just, oh, I'm dead. He's tripping

on. He opened his bag, man. It was the gun. And I said, is that real, man? He goes, yeah. I don't want to be a positive. I don't want to be a positive. It's weird, man. The relationship is what's, what's important to us, you know, the relationship between us and him. And even if he does, you know, we might say something that, you know, we might not agree with, we'll let him know how we feel. We can be real with him. We can be ourselves, but, you know, it doesn't change anything because what's important is the relationship. You know, the friendship that we've, we've already made. It's really hard. It's really kind of hard to even explain maybe to you or to anybody. It's, you know, it's something that just happens between, you know, in, you know, individuals people, you know, just this friendship thing that's born and kind of just starts to grow. And it's just, it's something that's, you know, hard to film on camera, you know, it's something, you know, it's something, you know, it's hard to explain in words. It's just, it's there. And you know, it's there.

You know, it's real. And you know, that's just something that, you know, every, every person's, I guess, experience because then they would know what we're talking about. To be a pal. The Texas School for the Deaf in Austin has a pal program which has been especially successful. Naval Brandon Burg is the program's faculty sponsor. The first time we went to East Campus and that's the elementary school. We went into the cafeteria. All the little kids are looking up and one little boy says to me, he says, oh, hearing kids. And I said, oh, no, no, no, no, they're deaf. And I said, oh, yes, these are deaf kids. He said, he looked at one boy that had on a football jacket. He said, but look, that's a football jacket. Can't be deaf. Well, it was real obvious from that one example. These kids needed a teenager to look up to someone that can say, you know, I remember when I was little, you know, I know how you feel. I'm deaf, just like you.

One day we went with the class to East Campus and saw what peer helping is all about. I guess. Yeah. Like a lot of the kids in this room, Andrea Scott has known the kind of pain that can ruin

a young life. Andrea has never had a real family. She's had foster, she's had adopted, she's been in various homes, but she's never had a real family. Several years ago, she got involved with some drugs. She got involved with some hot-check writing. A lot of it were things that she was trying and she didn't know. Luckily, she got involved with PAL. And I really believe that it has changed her life. First of all, it has built her self-esteem. She now believes in herself. Before she had a real negative attitude of, I can't and, you know, people don't like me. But now that has really changed. She has come to really

value herself. PAL has given her a family. Andrea says that reaching out to others taught her something she never dreamed she would know. That was just my habit to be angry. And I decided to be in PAL. I need to release that anger. So instead of being angry, I wanted to start to accept that, to be able to discuss it. And problems popped up. Popped up if I got angry. I just needed to accept instead of my habit of, with my attitude. And I learned that word, except. Andrea became involved to help another adolescent, but she also ended up helping herself. This is just one of the benefits of peer helping programs. Now, we're going to talk more about

that with Grant and Walter. And a little later, we will also hear from Regina Hicks and Ruth Turner. Now, let me start out with you, Grant, with the whole concept of peer helping programs. It's been around a little while. Is it still an experiment? No, I wouldn't say so, Roz. I think, for instance, just in Texas, when we started with the PAL program back in 1980 in Austin, that began at one high school. Now, it's in place. In six years, it was in place at 11 high schools in Austin. With the peer assistance network of Texas, when we started that in September of 87, there were maybe 12 or 13 school districts around the state that had peer programs. And now, there are well over 100. So I think it's safe to say that peer helping is well, well beyond its pilot or experimental phase. How do we know that it works that it can make a difference? There is a hard date available in another part of the country, for example. In Jefferson County, Colorado, in Jefferson County Schools, peer leaders were used to reduce the rate of depths related to alcohol, drinking, and driving, 53 percent, one calorie a year to

the next. They also reduced the rate of accidents, 15 percent. Plus, in Jefferson County, the peer notion is now vital part of the curriculum. In Orange County, California, our peer programs are now part of the curriculum. On Indian reservations in Zuni, New Mexico, where the Zuni Indians are, peer leaders were used to reduce the rate of alcoholism among teenagers. So in different parts of America, that's hard data to say that given a particular assignment or particular task, peers can really be effective in terms of reductions and negatives. But how can these adolescents make a difference when they can't change the environment? They can't get rid of drugs or deal with some of the things that give young people a tough time. How can they be effective? Well, they can be effective through influence, and I sort of agree with the philosophy. Grant has, students can't change the environment. Given that drugs are more of a demand issue than they also apply, when kids change the values or the group norms and begin to say no, then they've impacted the use of drugs or impacted the use of alcohol. So I think if you

look at it in an interesting context, they can't be about changing the environment over and in child school, if students say we're going to change our peer norms, we don't want our campus trashed, the campus will not be trashed. And all you need is a critical mass of students advocating a particular something. If you look at FADS, our FADS come in and out of the lives of teenagers, then the same thing can happen when you give them a positive thing to do, a positive thing to be a part of. Now, Grant, Roswell, remember this too, that one of the most, at once, irritating and I think exciting things about a lot of young people is they're too young to know what's impossible. And so they're less likely to accept the notion that we can't do anything about the environment of our school or our community. Now we heard one of the students talk about being a good listener. So are we talking about junior shrinks in this kind of program? No, we're not. And that's one of the major misconceptions that I think needs to be cleared up or that some people might have about a peer helping program is that it's a program in which you unleash a battalion of junior shrinks or amateur psychologists around the

campus. In fact, it's very clearly delimited what the role of the peer helper is and it is not as a counselor or as a therapist. It is as good a listener. And it is also the role of being a peer assistant or peer helper. What kind of help it could be help to special need or special education students, peer tutoring, help to kids who are making the transition from elementary to junior high or junior high to high school, help to kids who are new to the campus and don't know anybody. And getting off to a positive start is very important and something that a peer helper can be very effective in doing. And sometimes this is as simple as being a friend, someone to lean on. And I think that appropriate record is lean on me or another appropriate record that lies from bridge over trouble waters. I'll lay me down, you know. And sometimes it's all the child might need as a shoulder to cry on, someone to listen to them, someone to be there when they need someone. So peer programs can get to that basic level of humanity where what one child is saying to another, what one teenager saying to another is I care about you and I care about what happens to you. Okay. Now, Walter, now, who do you pick, though,

to be a peer helper? Do you pick the football star? Do you pick the cheerleaders, the A-stutans? I pick them and I pick some others. I think the football player, for example, if you're doing like campus cleanup and you want a football player involved, it's kind of difficult to tell a turn of 60 pound lamb and I'm not going to pick the trash if you know if he's about that. So yes, I'd pick the football player, the cheerleaders and honor student, but I also had, I would pick some students who have had difficulty who have cleaned up their lives who are now positive, like the recovering addict, you know, that's on campus. If they're like- Isn't that a risk? It's not a risk. If the person is on the right track, it does become a risk. If the person is still doing drugs because it gives a double message to someone, kids know what other kids do. I would also pick a farmer thug, if you will, the kid who might have had a reputation of fighting a lot of being a tough on campus, but who through whatever reasons has now seen the light and is now on the proper track. I'd pick a kid like that. I'd pick a kid who had gotten pregnant, who came back to school

to complete her education because he was the person who was saying that, hey, I'm back because I believe in one I'm about the business of doing. I don't own mistakes against children and I think peer programs shouldn't either because each of the different groups that you can break kids into the 17 identifiable clicks that are available in the school campus, each of those kids has an area of influence. And if we diminish the area of influence, we're losing a piece of that critical mass. And I think that is the key point, or one of the key points about an effective peer program is to select a cross section of the student body because in so doing, it's impossible for the other students who will be served by the program to say, oh, pal, or whatever the program might be called, that's for the goody-goodies or the student council or so. So all the kids that you have a group that is reflective of the entire student body, it can be responsive to it. And that would involve, then, at least with some of your peer helpers, maybe taking a risk. Okay. Now, we also have some other people because of their interest in young people who are with us this morning. And Ruth, did you have something that you want to ask?

Yes, I wanted to ask Grant, if he saw more acceptance on the part of school administrators to allow these kind of programs in schools. As compared to September of 87, yeah, a lot more acceptance. And I think a major reason for that is that a lot of very solid programs have sprung up. There are folks in central administration around the state who maybe came from Missouri, who are a little skeptical, who say, show me, prove to me, this can work. Now, there are a number of really effective programs around the state. So if there are skeptical school administrators, you can say to them, well, go to Crossroads or go to Brasisport or go to Sakura or go to Austin or go to Dallas and take a look for yourself. If you set up an effective program and give it the kind of support that it needs, it will have a very positive impact in the district. The neat thing about this program, you know, we have programs for the Pricy Kids. The Pricy Kids? The Pricy Kids, you know, the leaders, but we don't have many things that give positive feedback to kids that have changed. It's hard to change as a teenager because there aren't many, very many benefits. We're kids.

You had something going for you when you were a thug. Well, a good example that I'd like to say would be the Northeast School District in San Antonio. There are PAL programs on every high school campus, as well as the Center School, which is the alternative school campus. Those students are actively involved in the PAL program in Northeast San Antonio. And I think it's very important that they be allowed to be a part of it because they can help students who might have been on their old path. I also want to add one other point. In the past, we had a lot of denial going on in public schools around drugs, teen pregnancy and, you know, drinking the mid-70s, late-70s early-80s. And if you had a peer program back then that was on campus and you're in a denial stage, how can kids work on a problem that you're saying doesn't even exist? So I think that added to the fact that a lot of administrators were backing away from the concept because there was nothing to really demonstrate that it was working. Okay. One thing I'd like to do is remind the audience that again, we do encourage you to place phone calls for our panelists and we will be taking those calls shortly. And keep in mind that if you do have a question that's related to an earlier panel, we will have

a section at the end of this conference to deal with those questions. And right now we do just want to hear from those who have questions to direct questions that involve peer helping. And I wanted to go to Regina's question. It has to do with the fact that I think that within the schools, within other communities, there would be some concerns about liability within a program like this. What happens if one of the students at the peer counselor is working with makes a suicide attempt? How do you handle that? First let me say that the term peer counselor, at least in Texas, is avoided almost like the plague because that term does kick off these connotations of junior therapists because most of the more common terms are peer assistance, peer helping, pal, things like that because they stay away from this notion of child as therapist, which kicks off issues of my goodness if this kid is doing counseling, we're talking about potential legal liability. I think some other important considerations are around the way a program is structured. If you're careful about selection, if you're careful about the training that you give the kids, one of

the perhaps the most important point gotten across in the training in any effective peer program is making it real clear to the peer helpers right off the bat. Look, there are certain situations you're not qualified to deal with. Put briefly situations which poor ten harm, potential harm to the student or other students, so that it is pounded into their heads in those situations you refer to the sponsor or other responsible adults. And I can say that having been involved with peer programs for the past 10 years, I haven't seen a lawsuit yet, knock on wood or Walter's knee. What is the hurdle so that you have to overcome to get a peer program in place that works? Attitudes, first, that would be attitudes of central administration thinking that these programs have elaborate costs attached. The attitude of the school building administrator if the program is school based, thinking that well, here's something else I got to keep up paperwork or assign people to. The attitude of the sponsor but most importantly, the attitude of the students who are involved. And I think the key word for me about all these attitudes is caring. The caring attitudes all along the line must exist in order to allow this

program to flourish and to grow. I think it goes beyond just caring, Walter, caring in the sense, not only caring but believing that they can make a difference. It sounds corny, but in Austin, for instance, year after year we would do evaluations of the students who had been peer helpers. And one of the questions was, what did you learn in the program that was particularly useful or valuable to you? And by far, the most common response was, I learned I could make a difference. So it's caring, but it's applied caring in a sense that, yeah, what I do or don't do on this campus makes a difference. It's going to have some kind of impact and it gets an out of that victimized role. Thank you. And again, I want to take just a second to remind our audience that we'd like to have you call in your questions for your panelists and get the number from your site coordinator. Call us. We'll call you back when it's time for you to ask your question. Be sure to leave your line open for us to call you back. And Ruth, you had something I wanted to know something about the training that you provide. You mentioned the, when

to call for help, but what else do you do? There are two types of trainings that are available. One is, say, let's call it a beginner's training where we train kids and skills like active listening, how to communicate effectively. We teach them a problem solving model, a decision making model, and how to teach the seven step planning model. Those are basic skills that they would need in order to be effective to help us at a high level that we can train kids to be, be peer trainers where we teach them how to present information, how to facilitate, how to do logistics, how to design events, and how to teach an action planning model. So there's two levels of training depending upon where district would want to take its peer leaders. Okay. Now, we're still waiting for phone calls. Don't wait until the last minute because we know that many of you do have questions about this kind of program and how to get when started, and that leads me to ask you, Grant, how do you get a peer program started say in a school? Well, actually, with the peer assistance network in Texas, we look at a peer program as a district level effort, and I think that kind of leads into your question because I think the key ingredients in any district include

number one, strong administrative support, including support, active support, not just permission from the superintendent and other central administrative folks. Secondly, and related to that, the program needs to have a central level coordination and support. Somebody in central administration who will provide the ongoing kind of support for the program that it needs. And what about money? Well, and then that is the person who would then look for the money. We'll get to money in a minute, but the third ingredient is on the campus level, the sponsor, the person who's working on a day-to-day basis with the peer helpers needs to be somebody who relates well to young folks and who understands that a peer program is a peer program and maximizes the ownership of kids in the program. Someone gets the idea for a peer program. They look for the money. How long before the time, the idea pops into their head until they've got a peer program in school? Seven minutes. That varies. It could be a month, it could be three months. I think it kind of depends on the particular circumstances in the district, but it doesn't take that much time and it doesn't take that much money. And what about in a non-school setting

Walter, what does it take? All right, a non-school setting. We've had in America traditional kinds of what I would put in quotes is the boy Scouts would be a good example of a peer helping kind of program, the girls Scouts, campfire girls, to a degree. So it wouldn't take that long. First, you would need an adult sponsor in the community willing to work with children. Secondly, you would need children who, as Grant said earlier, who believe they can make a difference and who care about what is happening to other children. Once you found that sponsor and once you found those children, you're ready to roll. And some training. Don't forget the training aspect because you just don't jump in and do peer helping. Some things are natural to the humans to help, but I think there's some training that is needed. And for instance, if it's a school district where the superintendent says, yeah, this is the greatest thing since which he's we're going to do this and then designates at the district level, say the district at risk coordinator and said, we're going to do this and Ralph, you're going to be the district coordinator for a less go. That's not going to take as long as the district in which the superintendent may have reservations about the whole notion of peer helping. The good news, though, is

I have yet to hear a potential reservation or objection about peer helping that can't adequately be answered. Now, we've heard about some short-term benefits of peer helping. We do have kids either make a transition from one grade or one school to the other. What about the long-term benefits, Walter? Well, I would think the ultimate long-term benefit would be we produce effective in caring adults that come into the adult community and continue that. In a sense, being a part of a peer program, helping another peer could become a lifestyle, a lifestyle of helping and caring. Not that we're about to business of creating mother to races, they have it's whites and certainly not that. But it gives a person, I think, a certain consciousness that I can make a difference where the homeless are concerned. I can make a difference where world peace is concerned. I can make a difference in my community where young people are concerned because they've had the experience. And a keen example here in the state of Texas is Ken Sarano, who was shown on the video. He is now doing a pale training all over the state of Texas. He became involved in the pale program as a senior in high school.

So we are producing through the awareness effort on the parts of helping someone else, the kind of adult who continues to do the work in their adult life. Yeah, now, as Walter implies, I think good habits are as bad to break as bad ones. And if a young person gets into the habit of caring, of stopping if he sees somebody that looks alone, someone may say, I'm corny, but saying, hi, how you doing? What's going on? I don't think you break that habit. I think it becomes incorporated into the way a young person leads his or her life. I also think this is a hypothesis now, but I bet it's going to be born out by research. What I've seen is a lot of kids who get involved with peer programs end up taking a serious look at possible careers in education or related helping professions. So it's possible that our next generation of educators are going to include a healthy dose of former peer helpers. If that's the case, I think it's not going to reduce the quality of the school system. How do you get students involved? Okay, I can see how you would get, again, the cheerleaders and some of the kids, the so-called the student leaders involved. But what about the students who've been on the fringes? How do you encourage

them to take part in this program? To me, they've been on their friends because they've never been asked to contribute. They've never necessarily been asked to do anything, and all some children on the campus are waiting for is an invitation to do. But I want to back up and catch one other thing. I was, it just hit me when Grant was talking at another long-term benefit. Out of peer programs is we don't have a right of passage in America for children. You know, the right of passage from teenage to adulthood is I can drink and I'm grown, I can smoke cigarettes, I can do drugs, I can have sex. Those are not rights of passage. And our coach has been void of that. What peer programs, I think also do is allow a young person to become more responsible, which in a sense gives them that passage from being a child to being a mature kind of person who's about the business of helping. So I just want to add that point. And also I believe Ruth Regina had a question about programs, similar programs, of say 20 years ago or so. Yes, I've been around a long time, as you can see. We did have some of these in the 60s and they kind of fizzled

out on us. Well, they did. And in fact, you might find some admit, come back to the question about it, possible administrative objections. Some administrations might say, oh, we tried that or that's been trying to done work. And in fact, it is true that the first wave of peer programs, if you will, were in the 60s and 70s, many of them in California. And a lot of those programs are now defunct, but they're not defunct because the concept of peer helping doesn't make sense. They're defunct because the people in charge of the programs didn't pay enough attention to structural issues, such as basically boring, but important questions like, how and where do we structure this within our school administration, standards around how our kids selected, what kind of training do they get? So with this second wave of programs, if you will, I think people have profited from the mistakes that were made earlier. And again, what about money? I know you've got, you'll have staff at school or some program, you have the kids, but what about money? Because it will take some extra funding, won't it, to get this program going? You could start a peer program with virtually no money

because the labor is free, because with some, the curricular materials that are used in many peer programs are hardly prohibitively expensive. Of course, if you have funds, it would make sense, I think, to invest them in a peer program. Where would those funds come from? Drug-free schools and communities act as one major source of funds. Well, do you know all about money? Oh, staff is another source of funds. You would find funds out of the state level, Office of Substance Abuse Prevention in Washington. That's a source of funds. Different foundations that have an emphasis on working with youth and you'd find those through a computer search on what foundations are offering money for. You can raise the money, kickbakes, car washes, fish fries, those are ways to generate money. Because we're not talking about $50,000 to do a peer program. In most cases, wouldn't you agree it's under $5,000? Oh, yes, you're right. It depends upon the size of the district really. But they are not expensive and it's not a situation where I think any district would say, if we get the money, we can start a peer program because you can start it

on very little money. I have to say, I get the impression that maybe people in our audience are a little intimidated by the idea of starting up here a program because we're still waiting for phone calls and it may be that they're not sure this is right for them. I think most school people, kids are on the bottom of the power heap and we don't really think about them as somebody that can do something. There's somebody we do something too. I think also, how do parents feel about this? Is this scary to parents of teenagers? Well, I think if parents see a positive change in the behavior of their children at home, they lock into the program because what we're saying that ultimately will happen with the child is that their attitudes change. I can, I can make a difference, I can help someone. And in the process of doing that, they're ultimately helping themselves. Then there should be a behavioral change where they might pass, walk down a hallway and not speak to where they're walking down a hallway and speaking. Well, that should be a transfer of what happens at school to what goes on at home. Interaction with younger

brothers and sisters, older brothers and sisters, more appropriate interactions with mom and dad, more quality time spent at home. So I think if parents see all of the positive aspects of a peer program, they would hold harder to support it. My experience as it been in all of the trainings I've done in Texas and other parts is that parents not only support the program verbally, but they support it financially when funds are needed. Okay, now we have a phone call from Zen Neal and Fort Worth. Go ahead, Zen. Thank you. I'd like to address the question to Grant. The peer helping program seemed to be prevention oriented. And I have two questions. First of all, do you take a structured approach to measuring the impact of these programs? And if so, how do you measure the impact? The issue, the impact in terms of specifically a prevention. Go ahead, Zen. I would like to disconnect you. I'll assume that's what the question was. Do we measure the impact

of peer programs in terms of prevention? In the state of Texas, through the peer assistance network of Texas, thus far, no, we haven't simply because of staffing limitations, but that whole issue of evaluation of peer programs in the state of Texas is something that we're working with the Texas Education Agency on. And I would hope that in the next year to two that we would have some specific answers to you, looking at peer programs nationally, however, there was a study done in 1988 that was put out in the prevention forum, a national prevention journal, which looked at, they called it a meta-analysis of 143 different prevention secondary prevention programs. And the conclusion was that peer programs were the most effective prevention strategy available. And I think that's an important issue when prevention is a priority around the state. Yes, Regina. I think that this project, these programs can have a lot of impact not only in terms of prevention, but as well as Walter identified for some students who have already had problems. And I think that

when we look at certain, the self-help movements, such as AA within movements that we see as far as persons with mental illness, it's that same approach again of having someone that comes in as a peer, as a buddy, that has had a similar experience that can really help us to someone to re-enter the community, to re-enter the school, and really remain stable. And so I think the prevention end of it is important as well as just providing that ongoing kind of support through just through those kind of connections for individuals who have had certain, certain terrible, bad experience. Okay, now we're going to take a call from El Paso. We're going to hear from Alex Escarcega. Go ahead, Alex. Good morning. I can't help but look at the year 2000. My question is, are we seeing the emergence of a chronic serious habitual juvenile offender? If we are, how can practitioners juvenile corrections get into the picture? All right, I'd like to address that. Alex and Louisiana, two years ago, we did a pilot

training where we trained peer leaders at a correctional facility, 14 ages, Louisiana training institute. And it worked wonderfully in that, in the past, these students had been teaching each other how to get over on the system, and how to make it within it. What we altered in them was their dialogue and how to go about not just surviving, but how to get out of here and never come back, became the focus. And you can write the Louisiana State Department of Corrections and get information on what happened at the LTI bridge city experience. So I think that if your assessment is correct as we move toward the year 2000, that they're going to be chronic problems among teenagers, I would think our most viable solutions and best answers are going to come from the use of teenagers. Who do kids listen to? Other kids. Who gets kids on drugs? Other kids. And on and on and on. So we have a valuable resource that is going untapped in a lot of places. Alex, do we answer your question?

Yes, just very busy. One at a point. Let me see. Oh, that's fine. No, I think that's it. Okay, thanks. Yes, Grant. Well, I don't want to get too romantic about everybody who's in prison because they're probably some very real scoundrels in our jails. But I bet, too, there are a lot of people who had the potential to do something constructive, but nobody ever said to them and their school or elsewhere, hey, there's something you could do around here other than steel hub caps or flip off the teacher or what have you. But if you don't structure opportunities for kids to do something positive, how can you expect for it to happen? I think kids and other people will live up to or down to the assumptions that you make about them. Okay, now we have a call from Lubbock and we'll hear from Dennis Norris. Go ahead, Dennis. Yes, thank you. I was wondering a while ago when somebody said that they would send a mixed message for someone who is not in recovery to be an peer support group. I was thinking one or who would be the one to police that, to decide who is acceptable and who is not.

I think I might take that at least initially on any campus that has a peer helping program, the person primarily responsible for selecting the kids is the sponsor. Very typically, though, on that campus, there's a program advisory committee that assists the sponsor in implementing the program. And of course, one of the probably the key tasks there is to select a prospective peer helpers. Walter already said that with some of the kids you selected, you might want to take a risk. Some of those kids might have had, might have been problematically involved with drugs or alcohol. It's my belief that, yeah, it's important to perhaps select a student that may have been problematically involved, such as Andrea, who appeared on the video. But you have to be careful because some kids are out of recovery, but not far enough out of recovery that they don't begin to use this program as a kind of a compensatory mechanism. That's where the sponsor and the people in the program advisory committee need to sit down and say, is he or she ready to get into peer helping or does the recovery process need to go further? Okay. All right. Thank you. Now, again, some of you will

want to talk about this a little further in your own groups. So for those of you who do, we're going to give you an opportunity to break away. And those of you who have more questions, stay with us because we're going to be back in just a few moments. All right. We're going to continue our discussion and our questions. Keep calling. Now, Grant,

do you have a point you wanted to make also about the opportunities that peer programs offer? Well, I think it relates to Roots Point. Why don't you restate the point, Roots? Well, I would just say in schools, we do allow for a lot of sorting kids and the good guys and bad guys, you already be and you are an F. You know, we attach labels to them and those are the roles they play in our system. Seems to me, this cuts across that and gives all kids some kind of opportunity to respect and be helpful. You got it. And this is not just sentimental because it is a fact that a D student can be as effective a peer helper as an A student. It is a fact and documented that a so-called bad student or somebody who has been a leader only in a negative sense up to this one can be just as effective as a peer helper as a so-called good student and that kids who have been knocked around some and have gone through that and have heard stronger can be just as effective as kids who

have been choir boys and choir girls all the life. So it really is a universally distributed capacity to be helpful. Now, let's take a question from Scott Glouc in Houston. Go ahead, Scott. Yes, from Mr. Thomas. I'm a chis worker in the Houston area and for some of us who are in kind of conservative school districts who have generally had a problem with this, we're really trying hard to push for these programs. Is there a way that you can help us present this to our administration or a packet that you can send us to do this? Yeah, I think in your resource packet is some information about Pan Texas, which is the short way to say, Pierce has a network of Texas and that's what we spend a lot of time doing is meeting with administrators and going through potential objections they might have. Let me ask a dumb question. What does CHI's stand for? Community youth services, where with Harris County Children's Protective Services and work right in the high schools with that risk youth. Oh, okay. Well, our number and everything is in that resource packet. Just give us a call. Okay, great. Could you just speak a little

bit more to funding and possible funding that can start off a program like this, even though you did say you don't need a whole lot of funding to start it all. Kind of start with one thing. The Drug Free Schools and Communities Act allocates to every school district in this state, $2.25 or something to supplement existing prevention programs. That's a big pot of money. The past two or three years, a lot of districts have spent most of those funds either on informational things, curriculum and films or on one shot of consultants, which are okay, but the research indicates that one shot prevention strategies don't work long term. That informational strategies alone don't work. So I think the films are now bought and I think for any district, Drug Free Schools is one major source. As well, the governor's office in Texas receives about $5 to $6 million of Drug Free Schools money that is dull out at the governor's discretion. But normally, discretion is where grants are written proposals are submitted. So I would say right a proposal to the Governor's Commission

for Drug Free Schools, because that's an additional part of money in the state of Texas that's available. But Walter, some people get nervous when you say right a proposal. If you don't want to do that in almost any community, you got the koanas, rodents or lions, organizations like that of adults devoted to service. You go to them and say, we want to do a similar kind of thing in our schools. You're going to, I suspect, get a sympathetic ear. Okay. We answer. Do we answer your question? Yeah, I want to just give one other bit of data. I want to say to you, Scott, that some of the most conservative communities in this country have bought the peer program concept. Orange County, California, Salana, Kansas, Garden City, Kansas, Jefferson County, Colorado. Okay. Point made. Let's take another question from Rosie Mock and Fort Worth. Go ahead, Rosie. Yes, I have a question for Grant. We have a similar peer program here in Fort Worth called Natural Helpers. At the present time, it's really just in our high schools. And there are some plans to take it down into our middle schools. And I wondered if you're aware of how

successful that might be and whether we would use the high school kids to work with the middle school kids or some information on that. Well, I have to give the short version today, but I think a common feature of most peer programs that have started up around the state in the past couple of years has been that they've started at the high school level. And the peer helpers selected at the high school level typically will work with younger kids either on their own campus or from feeder junior higher elementary schools. What we're also seeing now, though, is districts that have well established high school programs are starting to look at, okay, if the peer helping concept makes sense at the high school level, how can we implement similar programs at the junior high level? I'm not sure which of those two issues you're asking about, but if you give us a call, we'd be happy to discuss it. I'd also talk to Kim Puckett in Richardson, who is involved and coordinates a natural helpers program in that district. And there's a system in the country. Paradise Valley Arizona school district has a peer program in place at the high school level, middle school level, and the elementary level.

I think it's the only district in the nation that has elementary peers, sixth and fifth grade who go down level and teach a drug prevention model to third, second, first grade. And the contact person has tarmed it, which is Paradise Valley schools. So I think you'd find that the concept works as low as the primary system, the upper ends of the primary system, sixth and fifth grade. For those of you who perhaps are trying to take notes and maybe have missed some things, again, we will have a question answer session near the end of the conference. And also, our panelists plan to stay after the teleconference goes off there to answer more of your phone calls, so don't feel that you've missed something. And now we're going to take another phone call from Hesuse Bonilla in El Paso. Go ahead, Hesuse. Yes. My question I would imagine be to the whole panel, I'm very much interested in this program. What is, or how extensive is the networking with this peer program?

How expensive is the networking? Well, as I said earlier, there are well over 100 school districts around the state that now have peer programs that are affiliated with the Pantexas Network, ways in which we facilitate networking amongst these programs is to put out a newsletter four times a year, which enables folks involved around the state and peer programs to find out what folks and other parts of the state are doing. And if they're doing something effective in their own district, to highlight it. Is that what you wanted to hear, Hesuse? I think what I'm making reference to is within the community where the school is situated. And also, you know, what is the role of the staff? And how do you, apparently, and I'm not so sure was this volunteers, are they volunteers or are they recruited? And how do they keep up with, with giving them the credit they so deserve? That's a lot of questions.

Are the students volunteers in peer helping programs? Yes. Are the staff volunteers, in a typical peer program in the school, the sponsor is somebody who's either a teacher or a counselor who volunteers, if you will, to sponsor the program. Do they get extra stipends? No. Except in a couple of cases. In many cases around the state, the program is structured as a course for credits. So that students who participate as peer helpers get a course credit for their participation. In all, Kendra, there are so many questions that in this format, it's a little difficult to address all of them. I think, again, this would be, I would encourage you to call us at Pantexas. We can explore the questions you bring up in more detail. Okay. So let's take a question from Jean Holcomb in which it all falls. Go ahead, Jean. Thank you. My question is directed to Grant. First of all, I think this program sounds wonderful.

We don't have something that I'm aware of of this nature in which it all falls. My concern is for the students, perhaps who are involved, as pals in your group, that if they are in truth being alert listeners and really working with students on a one-on-one basis, and are working with students who have major problems, maybe with drugs or with suicide directions, that I got the message from one thing that you said that it's been repurposed to a more trained person. But if this would come to a negative end, would this pal then feel a sense of guilt? Are they trained to deal with this so that we don't end up then with children from the pal group having such a problem of feeling that they didn't deal, perhaps, if I had done this or if I had done that, there would have been a different outcome. So in other words, how do they deal with failure in a way? Go ahead.

I cannot underscore the importance of the type training that the students go through. One of the key words that they hear over and over and over is referral, referral, referral. And that's why across this country, anyone would be hard to press a comma within a major incident where peer help has been involved with something that's serious as she's talking about, hypothetically, however, if a child was involved in an episode, I would think guilt would be attached to it in some fashion, but that's hypothetical. But the training is specific and implicit in terms of what the students ought to do. Their listeners, not advice givers, they're not counselors, they're friends, and things that they can deal with, they do things that get serious where professional help is needed. They make that appropriate referral first to the sponsor, and then on up the line counseling outside professional help of necessary. Right. Walter, you're right. And yeah, Gene raises a good concern because that kind of thing that could happen. I should add that another important component of any effective peer training model is to

impress upon peer helpers that they are not rescuers, that they're not taking over somebody else's life. So therefore, if a student they're working with should commit suicide or encounter some other kind of tragedy, it is not the fault of the peer helper any more than if a student that they're working with goes from an F2NA, it is solely because of what the peer helper did that they're making an A to establish those limits in the relationship. Okay, we have one more question. We do want to get to you, Tom and Tom Holder from Lubbock. Go ahead. With the increase of a lot of activities on the gains in your calls and we're seeing an increase in Lubbock, we see a lot of temptation to build up a sparkler and glamour, criminal activities on drug billing, burglaries, stuff like this. Why can a peer pressure program do to show these kids the sparkler and glamour of an education? Okay, Walter.

Well, I think I said earlier that if you just look at drugs specifically, drugs and more demand than they are, anything else, that if children begin to say no and do the behaviors that are associated with abstaining from drugs, they're role modeling. I think role modeling then becomes a key of the popular, successful BMOCs, BMOGs, big men on campus, big girl on campus are doing certain things, other kids will be influenced by what they're doing. So children become important from a role model perspective. From a sports example, children don't look at Michael Jordan first, they look at the high school athlete first, if they're in middle school. So that sort of thing. So role modeling becomes the most effective tool to do that. Okay, we've run out of time for this section of our workshop, but again, keep in mind, if you do have questions for Grant and for Walter and any of our other panelists, we will have another question answer session at the end of the teleconference. So again, thank you for calling in and thank you, panelists. And now it's time to move on to our next section, Community Connections. Getting a community to recognize it has a problem is not easy and getting social agencies

in other institutions to effectively address the problem can be even more difficult. Among social agencies, the boundaries between traditional areas of responsibility can be rigid when solutions demand flexibility and creativity. Here to talk about establishing community connections are Dr. Regina Hicks and Ted Blevenz. Ted Blevenz is director of Fort Worth Lena Pope Home, which offers emotionally troubled youths residential care. It also provides transitional services such as independent living programs, family-based therapeutic foster homes and career counseling. Dr. Regina Hicks is coordinator for children and youth mental health services with the

Texas Department of Mental Health and Mental Retardation. She develops programs and policies for children's services and gives technical advice to local and state mental health facilities. Before we go to Regina and Ted, we'll show you how one community in Texas learned how much it could do by working together. Curvell is a small city located northwest of San Antonio in one of the most beautiful areas of Texas. The jobs are scarce here and although many of Curvell citizens are wealthy retirees, others barely managed to get by. Juvenile crime has become worse in Curvell like it has in many other places. Getting high on whatever you can find is a popular pastime for a lot of kids who don't have much else to look forward to. I have any numbers of inhaled cases where they're sniffing correction paper or whatever. We picked up five last week, this week actually.

Every one of them when they were picked up had correction paper, blew it up their nose. One of them had it all over his face and his hair. Over 10 years ago, Curvell built an addition to its courthouse, a jail to hold an ever-increasing number of prisoners. The new jail is now filled beyond capacity. Many of these prisoners were also in trouble as kids. They say there's nothing certain except death in Texas, but I can tell you something it's more certain in Texas and that is that these teenagers of today will be 100% of the future criminals. And it's just a matter of whether you want to spend your money intervening in young lives and trying to turn them around or whether you want to build a prison bed for them later on. One of the things that our communities identified as nating is information referral center. Jerry Ray, a county agent from Texas A&M's Agricultural Extension Service, is one of the people trying to turn young lives around in Curve County. Jerry originated a clown class for juvenile offenders on probation.

The clowns visit nursing homes in daycare centers where they learn what it feels like to be loved. Putting on clown makeup is a unique experience. It's kind of an extension of a you that you don't even know about. It's a natural high. When you get on this makeup, you're not as timid as you used to be. No one really knows who you are, you can design any kind of face each week a different face, every how you feel. And it's okay. I think that's a positive part of it is that it's okay. Hi. Hi. How are you? I'm doing great. Great job. Good. What's your name? What's your name? Oh, honey. You don't have a name. Oh, honey. We don't tell people in the community that these are kids on probation. This is never a fact.

We portray them as the kids that they really are. They're good kids. We believe in them. Jerry has also helped coordinate a number of community task course meetings like this went where social agencies and concern residents have a chance to communicate their needs to one another. If changes are to be made, they will be made by the community. We might not be able, for instance, to do anything about the drug cartel in Columbia. But we might be able to do something about a 12-year-old child in Kirk County who is hooked on sniffing glue. Three years ago, over 1,000 Kirk County residents came to a two-day seminar on drug abuse. Some people came thinking that the problem wasn't theirs. Denial is when it's not my fault, but it's the parent's fault. It's not my fault. It's the school's fault. The school says it's not my fault. It's the law enforcement and the law says it's not my fault. It's the judicial system. And this is what Denial is. And then as we come out of this, we realize we're all in it together.

residents in Kirk County have become involved through parenting classes taught by retired psychologists Ed Hall. You know, the one thing we have discovered is parents. No one gave us a license to be a parent. I have a license to drive a car. Everything we do requires a license except parenting. The skills are learned here. The juvenile justice system sends a lot of parents to these classes, but others like the ones here tonight come to learn more about one of the toughest jobs in the world. Well, it's just with my oldest one, just trying to make myself aware of how to handle the problem. And I think that was the whole thing is realizing who's problem it was and always trying to make it my problem. And I found out now that it is his problem and he has to deal with it.

I have to back away and let go. You want to name this problem? Trugs has made his main problem and alcohol. The book says you must change the change of children and I thought that was I said, well, what do you mean? I got to change. This is the book's crazy. I'm not going to change. But actually you have to change before you change your teenage children or your young children. And you can't change without changing because you're going to keep on having them doing some revenge or power struggles and that's what I was always having at home. David and Isabelle Carpenter have a special reason for being here. Linda, the youngest of their four daughters, ran away from home a couple of years ago. The Carpenter's found Linda and brought her back, but life for them has not been easy. They've had to move twice recently, running from circumstances they felt would take their daughter from them. Linda seems happy to be at home these days. She and her sisters have made new friends. Linda says it's a good life compared to the one she knew as a runaway.

She thinks things are better at home since her parents went to class. So I don't think we are too much now that we used to, they have a lot more patience. They try to explain everything out, you know, and they're kind of easy now. So we strict about some roles, but that's only if it's like real wrong, you know, and I can see that. I just want them to understand where I'm going and to respect my feelings and how I feel about people and just love and caring. The Carpenter say it's been worth all the effort and all the pain to hold on to Linda. Her mother says she knew a change was coming when Linda asked if she could sleep with her. You know what, touch me, she just wanted to be way over there and about two or three days later, I know that she started sleeping closer to me and cuddling up with me. So I started, you know, just touching her, holding her and cheating and rejecting me. And then I was surprised that night that she asked me if we could sleep like in a chair

because it was kind of cool. And I asked her, you know, what do you mean, like in a chair and she said, well, if I turn over mother, can you hold me, you know, kind of put your legs under me like this, just hold me tight so I turn around and hold her and she slept very comfortable.