The American Scene; The Goodman Theater

Good morning. This is Howard Vincent viewing the arts for the American scene for Illinois Institute of Technology. Part of the fun of doing this program is that it forces me, the producers, to look around Chicago to see what is going on in the arts. It educates us. And the more we have looked around, the more impressed we become. Now Chicago lacks a great deal. This way and that, according to some critics, according to the, but let's see what critics recently attacked Chicago and frame up, they came back, valiantly defending Chicago. We take a position of pride. And one of the developments in Chicago, we've had for a number of years, but there's been a revitalization of this, is the Goodman Theatre. The Goodman Theatre would be, had contributed so tremendously, increasingly to the life of the community, that I thought it would be

most interesting to have the director of the Goodman Theatre and the school. Come here and talk with us about that activity. So I've asked Dr. John Reich to come here and we will spend the half hour reviewing this Chicago institution, the Goodman Theatre. Dr. Reich, you've been here how long now? Well, I've been here merely two and a half years, so I'm really still a newcomer to this great city. But the Goodman has been here a long time, as you know. When was it founded, by the way? When it was founded in 1925, it was founded by Mr. and William O. Goodman in memory of their son, Kenneth Sawyer Goodman, who was a noted playwright and died during the First World War. And it began in the present beautiful building, which was designed by Howard Wandorn Shaw in 1925,

with an old professional company. It was a Repertory Theatre, and from this original company, some very well -known actors have come, some of whom are no longer living. But in 1930, it ran into the Depression, like every other organization, and the Art Institute, which must be understood, was charged with its upkeep. But to whom, the Goodmans had not requested any money to run it, they had just given them the buildings. They didn't quite know what to do, but they don't think they hit upon the idea of making it into a school, which, of course, is the financial burden. It doesn't make an entirely self -supporting, but it helps a great deal towards that end, does it? Yes. Especially then, in the Depression. Especially then, I say,

because when this was done, there were only really two noted drama schools that also ran real productions in the country, Pasadena and Yale. Not Kalamazoo? Well, Kalamazoo is not a school. Not a school, but just community here, that's right. Well, did the Goodman close down at all during the Depression? No, never closed. In the 30s and 40s. And some of the most prominent actors in the American professional commercial theatre today are Goodman graduates of that period. Now, this is a dirty thing to do to a guest, but could you name two or three of them? Yes, of course. Chicago

has just admired the probably the best known graduate of the Goodman Miss Geraldine Page. Oh, is she? Surely. And not only is she one, but she is very, very grateful to the Goodman, and she never comes near Chicago without visiting us and talking to the students about her own problems when she was a student. Another one is Shella Burman, who was incidental in the same class with her, same group with her, and who will be playing Chicago or near Chicago in the summer. Another one was Sam Vanermaker, who has now become a very excellent producer in England, you may know. And a long list of highly respected professional actors have come out of the Goodman Carl Morden as another one. Have you done anything to directing him? Playwriting itself, have any playwrights? No, the Goodman has never emphasized playwriting, Dr. Vincent. The

Goodman has, from its inception as a school, been, even from its inception as a theatre, been dedicated primarily to the arts of acting, directing and design. And we do not aim in the near future of adding playwriting, which is the most thankless thing in the world to teach. Yes, I, yes, can't be taught really. Well, no, it can't. I know you have, of course, a rather remarkable lock, maybe, a success to a George Pearce Baker, having Carl Barry and Eugene O 'Neill, and then, of course, the Yale School. Well, I don't think it was just luck. I think this man was uniquely equipped to do it. And I think the Yale School today is, by far, the best equipped to teach playwriting. No, but I, excuse me, let me explain. I think there is an element of luck in this. You've got a man who can do it. You can, or the best teaching in the world won't produce a silk out of a sow there. And you've got to have the talent and the right person. But the right person will do it himself, no matter who his teacher is, finally. There are a few times you'll be blocked, but if he's got the genius of an O 'Neill, he will do it himself. Well, it's been said, of course, that

the best school for playwright is to be part of a living -producing theatre. Yes, even if it doesn't offer him any formal courses in playwriting. He looks at how to get care, because on and off the stage. People like to check off or dance, or now... Miller, or Kazan and so forth have always been part of a living thing. Yes. Otherwise, you get what it's called... An out -of -course of drama. A out -of -course of drama, some people say. Yes, yes. And it must be terrible to a director. They have to be faced with one of those dramas where these things don't move right in terms of... No, they don't rather not be faced by them. And as a director of actors, they'd rather be faced with the problems of the actors than adding to them the problems of a new theatre. Now, you've been here two and a half years. What was your is your philosophy? What was your philosophy when you came here? What did you have in mind to effect? And how far do you think you've affected it? That's a big order. Well, I think that we have made a start. But as

the famous admiral said, I feel we have just begun to find. If you believe in figures, I can tell you that when I came two and a half years ago, Mr. Nate Gross, the columnist of the Joel American, whom I respect very highly, wrote a very amusing column, welcoming me and saying, the good man is the best -capped secret in Chicago land. Now, maybe we have just told the public a little bit about it by now, promotion -wise, and to the quality of our production, so the secret has gotten around. And the other thing is that when I came, the good man had 2 ,250 subscribers, and was generally filled to about 28 % of capacity. And today it has 7

,350 subscribers. It's generally filled to about 83 % of capacity. And we think that without very much of a problem, you're going to have 10 ,000 subscribers next season. Excellent, excellent. But there's also been a policy too. I mean, after all, these changes have occurred because of some policy that's been operating. That's the effect, the achievement in terms of figures. What is the policy that's... One of the policies there is that the good man was only a school, I believe, before he came, and that it is now run for the community as well as for the students. And the community has started to buy it because it has discovered that we are offering an excellent value, especially since because of the Fort Foundation grant to us, we have had an important actor or star in every play. So I'd like to explain

to you if I made them to mention what the public is seeing today on the stage of the good man. It is, first of all, not seeing an old student company. It is not seeing an amateur company. Although the word amateur has been fought over a great deal, even in the papers. And I'm not opposed to the word amateur, except it is not technically correct, because everybody that you see on the stage of the good man today, devotes his life from nine o 'clock in the morning until about one o 'clock the next morning, seven days a week, to acting or directing and designing. It is too strong to call it an amateur. You may say that the performance of some individual students, so it reminds you of the amateur level. It isn't professional enough, but we have just made a start, of course. But what you see on the good man stage today is, first of all, a

star guest artist of great professional and human caliber in every production. I'm glad to tell you that this policy is going to continue next season, even though the Fort Foundation grant was only for the first year. And this star actor is helped in the next two most supporting parts by at least two, sometimes three more professional actors from the Chicago area. There is still in Chicago a certain, let's say, left over number, of pool, of excellent actors that have not succumbed to the lure of Hollywood in New York. And we have been drawing, rather heavily, on these actors. Then the next most important parts are played by people who have been called invitational students. There are people who have had at least

four years of constant training and acting experience and who have been invited back by the staff to act for us. They don't take any classes. Act for us for another year in order to perfect their technique and their experiences with the audience working on the good directors. Now, there must be a problem here when you have such groups of blending them. Yes, we do have this problem. It much depends on the guest star. Sometimes it's harder, sometimes it's easy. But you can see that, for me, as the production director of this organization, my hair has gotten a great deal of gray during this year. Well, Maggie, you've got a prima donna. You really have difficulties. But have they been fairly cooperative? They have been absolutely wonderful. Of course, we are very careful with the people that we are bringing in. And it is not always easy to find the right people. And we have been most

fortunate with these stars. Do they help at all in the school? Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Notably Miss Highland. I'll tell you a nice story about Miss Highland who, after all, is straight for its number one female star. One of our, after the show, the good woman of Sechon has been running. For some time, a student just mentioned to her that he would like to present jokingly that he would like to present a scene with her in his acting class. And she said, well, yes. And she really did a scene with him in the acting class. Okay. Well, now, what we have here in the Goodman Theater is a new technique being worked out. A new policy which has had rather remarkable effects in the box office. And this is a complement to Chicago. In other words, Chicago will respond if something is given them. And it's coming right out of Chicago

itself, I think, is a significant thing. Now, what have you been doing in terms of the attractions you've had these actors but what have you been putting them in? Charlie's out? No. I think we have a very definite obligation to the community as well as to our students to present plays. And I have a very clear direction in this manner. To present plays that, you know, certain plays that could not be seen in the loop because if they were down on Broadway, they could not tour. There are many important plays today that cannot tour because of financial reasons. One very good example for it was, for instance, Billy Bud. Very important play that could not tour because of the large number of actors in the cast. I think our obligation to present such plays. I think that since the Goodman is part of the Art Institute, and some people are still not

clear about the fact that we are a division of the Art Institute, and the public doesn't realize that we are not an independent organization, or administration -wise. We are part of the Art Institute as the painting galleries are always the restaurant there. Yes. Well, also, it's not merely those which are expensive to tour as with Billy Bud, but like Billy Bud, which are not tremendous box office hits like Charlie's out, let's say, but are very important plays. And we'll remember when Billy Bud came out in Broadway how the actors took pages in variety to advertise, say, go see this play, the theater people, because they felt that it was an insult to American culture that the public didn't respond more to this. And the second obligation we have is to revive important classics that the community would otherwise not see. Our third obligation is whenever we do foreign

plays, you do them in new, very careful translations and adaptations to bring them close to the American community. And our fourth obligation, I think, is to present a carefully balanced diet. We do only six big productions in that subscription series, you see. And these six, if seen together, must offer something to everybody. Yes. So they are carefully balanced as to comedy and tragedy, new and old, you appear in the American styles in themselves, comedy and tragedy. Well, it might be, it might be well to run over the list which have come out this year. I think it's a rather distinguished list. Well, we started with a merchant of Venice, as you know, starring Maurice Kanovsky and Mariette Hartley from Stratford. And it was such a success that we had to give extra performances. We could give only three extra performances, after which Mr. Kanovsky had to leave. And in the last three performances, we turned away about

200 people from the box office. And we had even had our policemen come in and keep order in a couple of nights. Sounds like the old globe's there. Well, Shakespeare is good box office. Well, of course he has well done. I'm glad you're doing this because in teaching Shakespeare, one of the things you have to overcome in these students is this inertia, which has been created in them by the society. They have seen high school productions or college productions so often, which are so bad and Shakespeare is bad. He can't help but the poor man, but terrible. And Shakespeare really alive, and I'm glad you're doing that. That's terrible. And then we did the cave dwellers, because I consider Saroyan an important American playwright, and Eugenia Leontevich, a start and a part and directed it. And it was almost as great a box office hit as the merchant of Venice. And one of the distinguished former newspaper critics in Chicago, who had seen the New York production of it,

considered our production superior, especially a question of casting, because we had an all -American cast, and thought we had too many Englishmen in the cast. And then we did the Euripides Hippolytus, a very rarely done play, a very difficult one, and I think it didn't come off quite as well as we had hoped. Do you think you were optimistic because Greek drama, I've seen dozens of them really, and very seldom have, and do they come off in terms of the theater? Well, I think we were hoping, you see, Dr. Vincent, that it's similarity to certain problems in modern psychology within Greek people, but it's really too far away from us in America today. And then we did, I think, a rather important production of Pyrandello's Enrico IV, Enrico Quarto, in my own adaptation, which was the first production of this new version of this adaptation, was

starring Ira Harris, whose first performance in the United States was, and here's another function. It's interesting for us to introduce star actors to the United States that never foreplayed in this country. And he was one of them, he's a very distinguished actor from London, who had only played a little bit in Canada. And it had never been seen in New York or anywhere, anywhere in the United States. It had a great success, you know? And I can tell you that the production of Enrico may or may not have made an impact on Chicago, it made a great impact in New York. Well, we will probably do the show, with Tywin Gottlieb directing in another year in New York. And it will probably have the same kind of national tour and treatment as my Mary Stewart adaptation. Well, this is fine because Pyrandello, you know, was a product, I mean,

in terms of American theater performances, was a 1920s affair, I remember in the 1920s, seeing a two or three Pyrandello play. And then he sort of dropped out in American acquaintance and to have him revive, because after all, a very extremely important man. Well, the reason why he dropped out is mostly in this case because of impossible translations. Yes, yes, yes. Well, that's often the problem, isn't it? With Ibsen, friends, and so on. Exactly, yes. And then we did another important show, I believe. Brecht's the good woman of sets one. And I'm glad to say that after the merchant of Venice, this was the great box office success and of the season. And this is most encouraging. This has made me happier than anything that has happened since I came to Chicago. Because people have always said that Chicago audiences are not sophisticated enough. But here we have presented him with a real avant -garde play, which did not go over well in New York at all. It was

said that it was misdirected in New York and miscast, and that may have been true. France's Highland was indeed the ideal actress for this particular role. But certainly Chicago audiences have proved that their eye is head -based and the other audience of the world. Yes. And Brecht, they ought to respond to Brecht, really, really. Now we have another show in painting, and that is a new adaptation of Gongols, the Inspector General. Oh, delightful. It's a very funny play, but it just also suffered a great deal from bad translations. Well, I saw a performance I forget where many years ago, which is simply a here -to -light. Of course, Danny K has done it in the movies, but it doesn't really it. This was a production wasn't the same thing. This was done at Yale many years ago, and translation may have been imperfect, but in spite of that, it's such good comedy. Now, may I say that this will open down the 13th of May in the run through the 28th, and it will star Joseph Bulov, who is one of the leading comic actors in international speaking? Yes.

And Humshek Agua has seen last for five months as the lead in the fifth season. Oh, yes. Well, that's quite a season to have, and I'm glad you have got that response. My going from Shakespeare to Gongols. Yes. And as you see, only works of art, even though the Inspector General is a fast, and I hope we'll make people roll in the aisles. And it's very timely, you understand? Yes, of course. Of course it's about your mystical corruption. Yes, so yes indeed. Well, you have coming up, then, I would assume that you've got already blocked out your next year or do you? Well, we will approach our subscribers, and many news is our potential subscribers, just like last year, with a list of plays, maybe a list of ten plays, from which we will ultimately draw five or six. Would they help to choose, is that it? No. No. You see, the reason is that in bringing in guest artists

from New York and Hollywood, we cannot fix our productions far ahead, because we are not offering these great actors a salary. We are offering them an honorarium, and we are dependent on their goodwill. So if a tremendously rewarding show comes up for them in Hollywood or in Broadway, they cannot come, and they will not therefore oblige themselves to come further than about two months ahead of the opening days. This is a very great problem that we are really juggling. Now we have been successfully juggling this year, and I hope to keep it up, but sometimes I get dizzy. Yes, it must be very... However, our opening show is set, and this will interest you because you like Shakespeare. You are going to do a production of Taming on the Shoe, but this production will be quite different and original in its concept, because we are going to do this in

New Mexico. You will find, if you read the play, that it is about Italian landowners and wealthy real estate operators and such people. Now the same condition that Shakespeare talks about, which was prevalent in Italy, now obtains in New Mexico, where some very prominent aristocratic Spanish families are holding important lands. And can't you just see Kathleen as a famous horsewoman? Oh, surely, surely. Well, this is all right, and there's no question Shakespeare would approve after all. He was a man of the third, first of all. Well, we are not going to a temper with a text at all. Well, Shakespeare was never a capital G, capital D, great dramatist. He was a man of the third and he was willing to adapt and everything will bring it close to the border. And we also have a Stan. That will be another actor who's never been seen in Chicago, but has been seen on Broadway. And it's Leo Cicere,

who was this summer star in Statford, Ontario. He started there because of a plumber and Julie Harris. And he has, he is very highly regarded in this country because he created the part of Paris in tiger brigades that you do in both London and in New York and also took over the leading part in the lock. Opposite Julie Harris. Hanson Mars, I recall it when I saw him in London. Yes, I had to. Well, what are the prices going to be for all this? I'm here to tell you. Nope. I'm glad to tell you that our prices remain, will remain the same, which is on a subscription basis. If you remember the other institute, you can see these great stars on an orchestra seat, from an orchestra seat for $1 .25. Amazing. With an exceptional Friday and Saturday, where it will cost you about $1

.50. Go to the commercial theater in the loop. If you can get a play in the loop, which is sometimes difficult and you'll pay, huh, $6, $8. Well, suddenly you'll pay at least $5 .50. If you consider that, here's a good example. We gave up the performance as I told you, of Cave Dwellers, in which everybody could see it, from an orchestra seat at $1 .25. That is not a subscriber's code. Now, Ms. Leonter, which played the same part in New York, with a cast very little different in quality from ours, but the orchestra seats were 690. Well, there's a tremendous bargain, and this is a chance for... Can you just name one or two other plays that you have in mind? Yes. We will most probably, almost certainly, do a check -off celebration in the summer. It's where I am using to me that in this great city, nobody has thought of the fact that this is check -offs, hundreds of anniversaries. Oh, wow, wow, wow. Well, that'll be an important thing, but the country's not performed very often. After all, we always see the... We are

going to do Uncle Vanja, and we have an agreement. This is really quite sensational, an expression of very deep interest on the part of Joseph Schildger out of style. Good. Well, thank you, Dr. Reich, for coming and talking about the Goodman Theatre and all of you be there for the performances.