Ear on Chicago; Darrow

This is the story of one of Chicago's greatest attorneys, Clarence Darrow. Chicago is celebrating the Darrow Centennial this week with ceremonies throughout the city. Tonight we will hear excerpts from a discussion on the life of Darrow. Panelists in this group include Dr. Preston Bradley, pastor of the People's Church, who debated with Darrow on religion. Superior court judge John Sabarbrough, who opposed Darrow in the Leopold Loeb case as assistant prosecutor. It was he who secured the confession. John Lapp, presently a labor arbitrator, who also debated with Darrow on religious and philosophical matters, and Miss Matilda Fenberg, who has been a criminal lawyer, and was a protégé of Darrow. She was the first woman to graduate from Yale Law School. The moderator of our panel will be Mr. Arthur Weinberg, reporter for Fairchild Publications, and a member of the Headline Club. He is executive chairman of the Darrow Centennial Committee and has just completed a book on Darrow. This discussion was

held recently at a meeting of the Headline Club here in Chicago. Now here is our moderator, Mr. Arthur Weinberg. Clarence Darrow could have been the richest corporation attorney in the country. Instead, he turned his attention to the defense of the poor and the weak. He was an agnostic, yet he knew his Bible and he lived a life of compassion and understanding. He was a pessimist, but he had more, but he was a pessimist with hope, and probably had more enjoyment out of living than he would care to admit. This is the man that Chicago and the nation is going to be 100th birthday, will become a commemorated in Chicago and throughout the country. Darrow is primarily remembered as a criminal attorney. He is far, far more than that. He was a real human being in the truest

sense of the world. Tonight with us, we have Ms. Matilda Fenberg, a protégé of Darrow's. Ms. Fenberg, I like to ask you a question. Knowing Darrow's idea about women and the suffragists, which was not a two complementary one, and his thinking in one of his final pieces, where he says that he was glad that he was getting out of the practice of law, now that women are able to sit on jurors. How come he found an interest in a young girl who was just about to get into the law, and into law work, Ms. Fenberg? I was a little girl from a fancy town in Ohio, Finley, Ohio, which Dr. Preston Badley knows quite well because a few years ago, he married the mayor of Finley, Ohio, to a woman from Chicago, and I was the lady in waiting for something rather. And

so in Ohio, Mr. Darrow also came from a little town in Ohio. The little town he was born in, Farmdale, near Farmington, and started an expectation of law in Andover, which only had 400 people in it. I tell you that the town that I come from had a few more, had 25 ,000 people in it. It still wasn't big enough for me. I felt that it still had a railroad track, and you lived on one side or the other, and that you had to do something to get across to the other side. That time, Prince Darrow was talked about not in the life in which he is now. People hated him. They thought he was ruling the people of this country with his ideas. He wasn't a person that was admired. He was so far ahead of his time that nobody could see what he was trying to do at the time. But I wanted to be like Prince Darrow. And so Dr. Foster said, when you get ready to study law, I introduced you to

Prince Darrow. But I was making my own way and I had to teach school and tutor. And before I could meet Prince Darrow, Dr. Foster passed away. And I taught school at Akronohau. And I lost my desire to come back to the law school at the University of Chicago. And I decided I'd go to Columbia. I'd learned in New York. But Columbia wasn't a good woman. But there was a fellow in one of these summer classes in the six weeks course who told me Yale was going to admit women. And so I went to Yale Law School, who was a first woman to matriculate Yale. And while I was taking the bar in Ohio, I was also taking it at Yale, like Newton, between New Haven, Connecticut, and Columbus, Ohio. And then I was practicing law in Ohio. Second day, I was out of law school. I was made a member of a firm. Then in Cove and Fender. They put my name on the door. I'm telling you all this because it's very important in my life at that time. And after a few months, I became there

because I'd been going to live with faster than the human body can stand. And I had the shimmels. Most of these in my woods, the nervous disease. And I said, the shimmels go around to you and die. Well, anyway, I came to Chicago to live and not to die. So I came up here for vacation until I was in the back to my office. I couldn't stand my loop. It was too noisy. So I was out on the south side hanging around the University of Chicago. Finally, in about three weeks, I came to down to the loop and I bought my ticket. And I thought, now I've never met a client sterile. I'm very meeting now. And that was the most interesting day in my life. It was about five o 'clock in the afternoon. I had my ticket to the back of the building. The train left at midnight. It was about five. I went to his office. It was called Darrell, Syspen, Holley and Caroline. That's Gentelli, who's now in Tucson, Arizona. And Bill Collins still loving his over -the -states attorney's office doing a cutler. Mr. Darrell was standing in the doorway without his

coat. And that's why he's suspended. You've all heard about him if you haven't seen. And he said, do you want to see me? And I said, yes. He said, put your name. Who I said, my name would mean anything to you. I just can't even see if life was worth living. I think I learned to know Mr. Darrell then. And I want to tell you that I'm very happy that I'm not in before he tried the locally a public case because he never was the same. Our next speaker is Judge Sababro, who was an assistant prosecutor during the week of the low case. Judge, I have here part of the play which Darrell made in the defense of leapord and mode. Which he says, I know that these boys are not fifth to be at large. I believe they will not be until they pass to the next stage of life at 45

or 50. I would not tell this card that I do have hope that sometimes the life and age have changed their bodies as it does. And they've changed their emotions as it does that they may once more return to life. I would be the last person on earth to close the door to any human being that lives and lease of all to my clients. Judge, as a prosecutor in the leapord and mode case, what are your feelings about the release of leapord at the present time? That's a very difficult question to answer and I have to be somewhat personal in my answer. It is my contention that making leapord should be released. It should be parable. However, the question arises and I know that many of you used to be men may not agree with me

because every time that question has been asked, it has been stated by some newspaper men that they doubt us to whether or not this boy that ever he adjusts himself to the outside world. Then I raise the question, who is confident to say that this boy has or has not yet paid his debt to society? I flow, boy, unfortunately. My men were appointed by the governor and with no reflection on any of them. I do not think that they are supported whenever a petitioner applies to parole with the kind of guidance that they could have if there were some committee set up such as a psychiatrist or someone who knows how to guide the parole board and giving them sufficient confidence in themselves to say he has paid his debt or

he has not yet paid his debt to society. I hope that answers your question. This is done, it's done. My acquaintance, however, with Mr. Garrow, began, I would say about the second day after the boys were taken in the custody. I might say that Mr. Garrow called on me in the office of the State's Attorney's Office and said to me, the following. Mr. State's attorney, I have no objections to how long you want to question these boys because I'm of the opinion that they are innocent of any of these charges. And so long as you promised me that they are not going to be abused, this is you may talk with them so long as you wish. We did keep the boys for about a week. We tried to treat them in accordance with the station that they had been living in. They had their choice of sleeping at one hotel,

such as the Blackstone one night or the cell the next night or the drake. We allowed them to select whatever place they cared to die lunching. And I might say, too, that the clients there had practiced criminal law, like some of the lawyers did in those days and some of the lawyers who practiced criminal law today, in that he had petitioned for a rid of habeas corpus. There would have been nothing else for the State's attorney to do when the rift is issued, except to answer the following question that the judge was put to, Mr. State's attorney, why are you holding these boys in custody? The only answer that the State's attorney could give was the writer here of the opinion of them. All right, we might connect them in some way with this charge we think that they may be guilty of and there was no other statement that the

judge could have made except this. I will give you four hours or six hours or until tomorrow morning and by that time you charge them with a crime book them for something because if you don't, I'll have to punish you for content and they would have been released immediately. Thank you, Judge. I was going down to introduce you, Judge Alphaya. It reminded me of the story of when Daryl was had a judge on the witness stand and the attorney for the other side had kept on referring to the judge as your honor to which Daryl objected and the judge said to him, but Clarence, just the other day we were out to lunch and you called me your honor. Why are you objecting to the other attorney calling such? And Daryl said, but the judge you bought the lunch so I had to call you back. Our next panel member is an

individual who worked, debated and argued with Clarence Daryl on many of the platforms and worked very closely with him on civil liberties. A speaker is Dr. John Lack who was a labor arbitrator and a friend was a friend of Clarence Daryl. Dr. Watt. Chairman. Members of the Headline Club, I was a friend of Clarence Daryl, and he was a friend of mine. We disagreed on almost everything except civil liberties. But Clarence Daryl was a man who however much you might disagree with one had a complete respect for him. I was in favor of prohibition. You know what Clarence Daryl felt about prohibition. I was on the other side when he was on the support when he was against the blue eagle as indicated by the Chairman's name. I was a member of the Christian Church as

stated here tonight, Mr. Daryl was magnificent. We however met on many occasions. I do not know any occasion when Clarence Daryl expressed anything about me or about any other individuals whom I was associated with. Although at times the debates were considerable, you may not remember that during the period in the early 30s Clarence Daryl and the group of men, one they do each rabbi, another a Catholic, another a Protestant minister traveled over this country. Before audiences, each one expressing his reasons why, why I am an agnostic, why I am a Catholic, why I am a Jew, why I am a Protestant. Maybe it wouldn't like that kind of a plan. I was on that platform on several occasions. I enjoyed it very much but for one particular reason. Primarily it did represent four points of view on a matter

of outputs there could be very deep feeling. Four men representing these points would be appearing on the same platform. Not that they added anything to the thought of the subject but it was a symbol to the crowds that in America you had this kind of a spirit among men that they could disagree completely, still stand on the same platform and express their views and all go away friendly. One night to hear an orchestra hall there was a very interesting time but Daryl of course was the man who drew the crowds and all over this country whenever it was advertised within a couple of weeks, crowds filled the largest halls in the community. In the one in Chicago they knew, said at the time, that one of the speakers represented the oratory, two other speakers represented the thought, Mr. Daryl represented Valdivell and actually

that was the fact in the case that night. He was a Valdivell actor. I certainly enjoyed the fact that I did know parents Daryl. I rejoiced in the fact that I was associated with him. I rejoiced in the fact that we did work together and I am glad to have a chance tonight and next week to participate in this hundredth anniversary of the coming of this great man into the world. Thank you Dr. Lass. I was reminded of a part of Daryl's way here in Chicago in 1920 when he defended, I hope it's permissible to say this, the communists, the communist way of a party and in that way he said that you can only defend your freedom by defending my freedom. That was Daryl's whole idea of the life that you must defend the other man in order to

have a defense for yourself. Our next speaker is Dr. Preston Bradley. Dr. Daryl is one thing that has been puzzling me, a question I've been trying to solve for myself and that is this. Clarence Darrell and Ignostic, how come there are so many men of the cloth who respect and admire this man Clarence Darrell? Dr. Bradley. Mr. Moderator and members of the panel and members of the headline club. I would like to call the attention of the moderator immediately in the question which he has asked me concerning the attitude of so many of the clergy in all of the major phase, the Roman Catholic and the Protestant and the Jewish faith,

are beginning to appreciate and understand much better than they did during his lifetime. Clarence Darrell and his philosophy and his theology, he would be the very last to claim probability that he had any theology but certainly his philosophy. And I would call your attention to the fact that not all of the clergy by any means take this position or this attitude of recognizing the values in Clarence Darrell's thinking or the contribution which he made in the areas which commanded most of his interest while he was active among us. This present emphasis on the 100th anniversary of his birth, you will see in the next two or three weeks and certainly probably the three or four weeks following then that there will be many voices raised in the reactionary

and the extreme orthodox group of the clergy in all the professions. This very observance is going to create a great deal of opposition and many of the old situations in which Mr. Darrell was involved are going to be brought out again. Fortunately, this anniversary occasion which we are observing in Chicago is prior or to what I'm quite sure will be rather explosive reactions in the religious thought and in the life of our people and the people of this country. Now I first knew Clarence Darrell when I was a very young minister, I came to the city of Chicago 45 years ago and have been in my group it ever since and one of the first men I met in the old Chicago press club days

which I was a member of the press club in those early days. A club that at that time had both the McCutians, George Bar McCutian and John King McCutian as active members, Stanley Waterloo who wrote one of the great books, A Fiction in which the theme of evolution was discussed, a book called The Story of Anne, Mr. Billick Faye who was the New York Times correspondent located in Chicago for the Midwest. I could go on Dr. W. Eaton, George Bourbon Foster, I could go on and give you the names, men like Emo Hurch, Rabbi Emo Hurch, the light of which we have not seen since in the Chicago Pupit for the profundity of his thinking and the magnitude of his scholarship. These were all men that were associated together in those early press club days. I was a much younger man than I am tonight and I knew a great deal more and as I met with those men

and had the opportunity of being exposed to their thinking and their attitudes and their philosophy was a major part of my own education or my own later professional activity in my profession and one of the first men I met in that group and in the old Chicago press club days was Clarence Darrell and it was very much interested in me because I had been a student of law for three years and I have a doctorate's degree in law but as Clarence used to say after having a little experience with the law and meeting a few lawyers you probably wanted to make an honest living so you went into the ministry but he always took a great interest in me in me because of those early attitudes and then I was at a time when it represented a great sacrifice as far as much social acceptance was concerned I was a religious liberal. I was introduced to

liberal religious philosophy in my high school days in a little village where I had a teacher who was a profound student of Brownwell New Emerson and Emerson was a favorite of Clarence Darrell's even though Emerson was a deist and Clarence Darrell never pretended to be a deist or a deist in his theology but I was interested in the liberal point of view I started to read the recognize the affinity between a person's religion and their action and the attitude of these early great liberals impressed me greatly and Clarence Darrell and I used to talk about them in those far away days then later on as the years came I had the opportunity

of debating with Mr. Darrell on several occasions I always invited him to my pulpit and he has occupied my pulpit on a great many occasions back to the matter is I think probably our pulpit is one of the two pulpits in the United States that was always open to Clarence Darrell and the evenings that we spent there with the mob's present there would always be more than 2 ,000 people with that many more trying to get in on the night in which Mr. Darrell would give one of his addresses and our association at the same time with George Berman Foster and George Berman Foster and Arthur Marrow Lewis who had at that time an organization called the Workers University it was a Sunday afternoon lectureship and that lectureship met every Sunday afternoon here in the Garrett Theater and every Sunday afternoon during the season

you couldn't get near the Garrett Theater with the people who were anxious to hear the debates I had four debates one winter with Professor George Berman Foster of the University one of them on the historicity of Jesus one on the philosophy and theology of immortality and Mr. Darrell when he was not a participant all was attempted and our friendship ripened and deepened with the year it is my conviction intellectual and spiritual that whatever God is and whoever he is and wherever he is and that there is a God has never been a doubt in my mind I cannot define him I cannot limit him I cannot fathom it I do not have the human equipment and brain cells that are capable of encompassing the truth of God but

reasoning deductively I could only say this that God being God could not refuse to welcome thanks Darrell for his honesty and his integrity God would be less than God not to honor through the untold eons of time a man like that you have just heard excerpts from a discussion on the life of Clarence Darrell the panel discussion was held recently at a meeting of the headliners club here in Chicago this is Hugh Hill speaking