38th District Congressional Race and Proposition 41.

Visionary tactic to avoid talking about the fundamental issue the fundamental issue is that we are spending in California 12 billion dollars a year on welfare. Now are we producing 12 billion dollars worth of improvement in the lives of the poor and needy people of this state. I argue that we're not given Aid to Families with Dependent Children. Today as we sit here discussing this issue eight hundred fifty million dollars in court ordered child support payments are unmade to Aid to Families with Dependent Children Families in this state. That's what the legislature has simply taken the easy way out. Let the taxpayers bear the first line of responsibility for those children rather than putting some teeth into the law requiring the fathers who participated in bringing them into the world to bear responsibility for their own children. But talk about aged blind and disabled persons. The initiative against specific CLI protects every single program in law for aged blind and disabled persons and

provides that the legislature can use all or any portion of the savings to augment programs for those people they were going before. If you think we're protecting under Proposition 41 we're protecting In fact we put it into law for the first time that the top priority for public assistance benefits in this state shall be the aged the blind and the disabled. Let me read this indictment from the California Health Task Force I'll give you both a chance to very quickly respond to it that the attack the very thing that you just mentioned it says the aged blind and disabled are ostensibly spared by the proposition but they are in fact threatened as much or more than children by cuts in Medicare even if the state wanted to it cannot provide more health care for the aged the blind in the disabled than it does for children if across the board cuts are made 60 percent will fall on the aged the blind and the disabled. Now that is either a true statement or a false one. It's a false one. I wish it was Dave in Arafat's way you bet it's a true statement.

If this initiative is such a bonanza for the aged and disabled as Mr. Johnson suggests the voters should ask themselves why it is that all of the senior citizens groups and nearly all of the disabled groups all of the disabled groups that have taken a stand have come out in pled with the voters to oppose this initiative. There is simply no way under the law to save their services until late over when Mr. Johnson talks about the 12 mil billion dollars in the California welfare budget. There are some things he's not telling you. First of all only six billion of those dollars is attacked by his proposal so he's not really there really isn't that much money in the pot to begin with. What's going to happen is that the kinds of services that will have to be cut are the services that save money and keep people out of the hospitals. You don't have to take my word for it the New England Journal of Medicine one of the most respected medical and scientific journals in the United States published a study of what happens to people in California when they lose their medical bent benefits.

It followed a hundred maybe people who lost them and a hundred maybe people who didn't. Five deaths among the people who lost them in a six month period and no deaths among the people who didn't. Among those deaths were one person who had bleeding ulcers and bled for 10 days 10 days before he went to an emergency room. One person with raging out of control high blood pressure. Why was it out of control. Because he couldn't afford to pay for his drugs that medical had once paid for. These people were dying. Let me I want to be part of that yeah I gotta like the opportunity to respond. First of all it's you kind of are going to have both sides of your mouth you talking about how the are much of the 12 billion dollars is exempted Maybe you'd like to explain to folks that the exempted portions are specific only those designed for the aged blind and disabled. You can't have it both ways that we're leaving out over half the 12 billion dollars but that we're attacking the aged blind and the disabled. I for one am proud of the fact that California leads the nation in support for programs for aged blind and disabled. Now as to why all of these

organizations have come out in opposition to proposition 41 there's a very simple answer. That's because a multimillion dollar campaign is being waged against the initiative. These organizations are being fed a steady diet of propaganda. Classic scare tactics classic diversionary tactics that are frightening people of well orchestrated campaign of fear is being generated against this initiative. The California Hospital Association alone has put in 2 million dollars. Are they doing that out of a sense of compassion and generosity for the poor are what we see what we're seeing here spending some of the of the profits from the war on poverty. Well that don't you think it can make a very great we're going to another area I'll make it very briefly run of the things that happens with this initiative that scares people is not that the hospitals are putting up money or the doctors are putting up money for hospitals and doctors have put up money

before but you've never seen cerebral palsy and crippled children Easter Seals society running in fright when the hospitals have said we think this is a problem. The reason they're scared now is that this initiative has given them darn good reason to be scared because it's right and it's going to be because they're hearing one side of the story. There are millions of dollars being spent to defeat this initiative and the folks who see all these slick commercials on television designed to frighten people ought to seriously question is that the poor and needy people of California who are paying for these commercials. Or is it the profiteers on the war on poverty. Let me move to another area because a lot of a lot of what the legislative analysts said is that there are costs that can't be determined because it results on action that would have to be taken if so opposition 41 passes by the state legislature. Are you concerned that a lot of this has an unknown quantity if you will in that it's up to the legislature to find these solutions does that bother you.

No. The reason that the legislature has been unable and unwilling to address seriously the issue of welfare reform is because back in 1970 one automatic cost of living adjustments were built into all the welfare programs in California. So that the legislature has literally no incentive whatever to examine welfare programs their effectiveness whether they're doing the job or not. We don't have an automatic cost of living adjustment education or transportation or police protection or fire protection. Only in welfare the result is that the legislature has had no incentive at all to examine the programs whether or not they're succeeding. The legislature does that bother you with that. A lot of this material will have to be decided as yet by the legislature if it passes as yet undecided. What bothers me is that the attempt to make the legislature come to some decision is being undertaken by attempting to hold millions of Californians hostage. This is I mean hostage. What this proposal would do would hold a gun assume it passes and assuming it passes what this proposal does is then say. Millions

of people are going to have to lose their benefits. You guys figure it out. My I'm washing my hands of it. I think this is quite frankly a dangerous and highly irresponsible act. There's a very good reason that no legit no significant legislators are supporting this proposal because the people who believe in welfare reform the people who are eager to go after child support enforcement and there's bipartisan support for that and the people who would like to see the programs reformed know that this is not the way to do it. Let me add let me give a challenge to you and this is from Ross Johnson's argument. He said proposition 41 reduces welfare spending for healthy young adults in California from twice per capita and national average to 10 percent above that average proposition 41 guaranteed benefits at current or higher levels to all aged blind and disabled persons many said proposition 41 simply means that some healthy able bodied young adult welfare recipients may have to work like everyone else. What's your quarrel with that. First of all we're not just talking about the healthy able bodied welfare recipients we're talking about

over 1 million of their children who are going to suffer from this proposal. Whatever economic arrangements are supposed to be made are made. Secondly there is no way to cut the welfare program without also cutting dramatically into Medicare. The legislative analyst has recognized and hundreds of thousands of people all over California have recognized that when you change the levels of payment for welfare what happens is that people have to who are currently spending $50 a month in medical expenses out of their pocket before medical Pixy and will suddenly have to spend two or three hundred dollars a month. Most of the people in that category call the medically needy are the aged are the blind are people who are making a little bit more than the threshold eligibility requirement that people on fixed incomes who don't have that extra money they're going to get hurt when the optional benefits like wheelchairs like drugs are cut out. Those people are going to get hurt. There is simply no way of making Mr. Johnson's omelet without breaking a lot of very helpless eggs.

You want to respond to that. We have just a little time. Well the fact is that. Proposition 41 doesn't take effect at all until July 1st of nineteen eighty six. The legislature in the governor would have 20 months and 10 billion dollars to go about the job of designing a welfare system that's fair that works. I want and I believe the people of California want a welfare system that is compassionate and generous. But one that produces results we have in California today a 10 billion dollar monument to government failure. The only way you're going to correct that is to limit the amount of money the politicians have to play around. Let me I ask each of you not to give a 30 second summary and we'll start with you first Mr. JOHNSON. Well one of the biggest reason why someone three should vote yes because we have again 10 percent of the nation's population over 20 percent of the nation's welfare costs. The

only way you're going to get the politicians to correct this situation to seriously did address welfare reform is by limiting at least initially the amount of money they've got to play around with your 30 seconds. This is not going to create welfare reform. It's going to create welfare wreckage it's going to hurt over a million children it's going to hurt foster children children who've suffered from enough abuse and neglect and don't need more. It's going to hurt elderly who are depending on these health programs as their only source of money for medical care. There's no way of accomplishing these cuts without hurting millions of people in this state. I don't that know we should advise everyone to do of course what we always say to do on Election Day is make up your your own mind and vote because what your opinion it doesn't matter if you don't vote it. But our time is almost up now and I want to thank both of our guest today for their timely discussion. This has been a special program for public television on Proposition 41 the welfare initiative. I'm Jim Cooper. Thanks for being with us.

In

one week. For a series of special election forms presented by the candidates an issue to the voters will be presented for the third congressional district in the first half hour of this program followed by a debate on Proposition 41 the welfare limiting initiative in the second half hour. Debates are considered among the hottest election issues in races in the November election in the 38 district race for Congress incumbent Congressman Jerry Patterson Democrat is battling to win re-election in his district which has been targeted by the Republican Party seeking a victory by the GOP challenger Robert Dornan. The debate over California's

welfare spending has polarized voters creating one side that says limits must be placed on welfare spending. And another side which claims that such cuts would badly hurt the elderly blind in this table and the first half hour focuses on the race for Congress in the 38 district. The thirty eighth congressional district occupies the important heavily populated central and north central portion of Orange County. It extends from Santa Ana on the east northwesterly to include a small part of Los Angeles County in Orange County. It includes the cities of Santa Ana Garden Grove Westminster Stanton Park and portions of the city of Anaheim and surrounding unincorporated areas in Los Angeles County. It includes the city of three toes the thirty eighth district contains two hundred twenty eight thousand voters and is predominately Democratic and by just ration Democrat total one hundred fifteen thousand voters or 50 percent of the District Republican registrations total eighty nine thousand or thirty nine percent of the total Republicans of target this district where extra financial resources in the hopes of winning it back into the

GOP fold since the three previous congressman from this area were Republicans but Democrats are equally determined to hold this congressional seat as the only democratic representation out of five congressional districts now serving Orange County. Let's meet the candidates. Jerry Patterson Democrat of Garden Grove had been a congressman serving this district since 1974. He previously had a private law practice followed by six years on the Santa Ana city council including two years at this mare. He served as a senior member of the House Banking Committee and is chair of the Subcommittee on International Development institutions and finance. Robert K. Dornan Republican of when a party was elected to Congress in the twenty seven Defective Santa Monica nine hundred seventy six he served in 1982. He then ran unsuccessfully for the Republican U.S. Senate nomination. He previously served as a fighter pilot in the Air Force from 1053 to 58 and also was a broadcast journalist radio talk show host and television correspondent and producer not present. Is Michael bright the Peace and Freedom Party candidate in the same race who

declined to appear on this program. He's a freelance artist and painting sculpting and printmaking and he lives in Long Beach. An elected member of the U.S. Congress now receives seventy two thousand six hundred dollars a year for the two year term of office. Each candidate will now make a one minute statement on his candidacy after which I'll ask questions on the issues. Let's start now with Congressman Jerry Patterson. Thank you Jim. It's been my privilege to represent the people of this district for 10 years. I fought against crime for better schools and parks for affordable housing improved freeways to keep Social Security and Medicare strong and to expand job and business opportunities. I have had a bill in for the Santa Ana River flood protection. I've always taken your side. I answer your calls and your letters. I voted for President Ronald Reagan's tax cut the three year tax cut in 1901. I voted against the tax increase in 1982. I support a strong defense. I voted for a balanced budget both constitutional amendment and statute just this year.

My opponent Mr. Dornan has a 96 percent approval rating by the John Birch Society. He will spend over a million dollars to try to defeat me most of that money come from coming from outside California and being from extremist sources. Mr. Jordan has spent lit very little time in Congress working for you. Well they're your choice is clear. I want to be your independent voice in Congress. Thank you Mr. Dorner. Thank you Jim. I served as hard in Congress for six years as any member of either party. I came to Congress in our bicentennial year with a promise to help hold down that wild growth of government spending to keep taxes down. To fight the crime that the philosophy of liberalism had delivered to is coast to coast has actual crime waves. And suddenly I found myself in 1980 up against a report shipment that took my seat away from me where Democratic liberals have been unable to beat me in three elections. Our president our governor

the county chairman of this beautiful orange county and a number of groups asked me to enter this race. They wanted to see me go back to Congress to support our great president to help develop this nation of opportunity not a nation of deficits and growing taxes. I've been endorsed by four of the seven mayors in this district and a fifth one is voting for me. I'm proud to be here in arj County and I'm proud to go back and serve with President Reagan in our Congress. I like each of you to comment on this question and it puts the burden on you to define what are the important issues I'd like to have you answer this question. Each of you. What do you regard as the top two or three issues that will be on the minds of voters when they make this decision on November 6th. Mr. Patterson Well I think the overriding issue is going to be job performance. Both Bob Dornan and I did serve in Congress during the same years. And I think that I served for the people here in Orange County he was from West Los Angeles. I have achievements for my district which I recount in my campaign he does not and has not is my

attendance has been 92 percent voting attendance his was 67 percent. He took many foreign travel trips at the taxpayers expense. I think that's the overriding issue of course a strong national defense saving Medicare and the economy will be major issues. All right. Kind of like the same question to Mr. Gore and Jim up two or three years in this entire race. I thought that because we're the only two candidates in the whole nation that served together. That's right this make this an unusual right that for the both of you have congressional experience right for six years there's no Sue senators running against one another. I put out a piece with 31 issues on it in seven areas the major areas being tax cutting growth job creation and our defenses were handed out to the top 3 then I would say those are the top three and what the race has turned into unfortunately is such a series of lies and distortions and half truths in the first four years we served together. Mr Patterson missed three hundred and eighty three votes. I only missed two hundred seventy eight and I had two of the toughest races in the whole nation in that four

years with Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden and Ed Asner walking precincts against me. Why did he miss so many more votes than I did when he had virtually free rides. Is it the Banking Committee that takes him to Paris to give low interest or no interest loans to communist countries. My voting record for the whole six years including traveling through 50 counties in this state running for that Senate race that I entered a year late was 83 percent not 67 he lies. His was 89. I'll put the quality of my voting in those 83 percent of voters against his 89 any day. You want to respond that I think it should be lifetime 10 year my voting record 90 percent lifetime he is about 80. At 83 JERRY OK and the last two years 72 and 67 the bottom three percent the House of Representatives. You know Ron I was running for the Senate but what about our first four years why did you run in this is the Senate doesn't excuse you for a not a killing on Medicare and so if I hear oh it's the first four years we were together more than I did and you didn't have races was it honeymooning Trad I think

every night turned to talk Bob Harris explain the truth I guess you missed more votes than either for that's what we're here to Patti and why did you get into Mr. paddock I asked people to call the quartet I mean the Patterson place. Go ahead if you like Jerry the intranets you're putting out in history are negative I'm not going to practice and I want to hear about it again even in the moment. He missed a hundred more votes than I did in six years and I've been there 10 years. But running out to everywhere years I missed fewer votes in 10 years than he missed in six years by a hundred. And he first said well the reason I missed those votes they were procedural votes. I could cite you about 10 percent of the votes he missed the justices system job training bill funding for the B-1 bomber he says he supports you heard it again and I never did I never did you voted against five in six you lie and I get a vote how do I have your I don't live here who are the B-1 everyone you voted against they already did it here I mean what I have is recorded vote against the B-1 aircraft five and

six if you want to tell you they are deprogrammed. Well what I'd like. He's citing his 31 issues this little piece of trash here that he put out your voting campaign and frankly it distorts the truth on about 26 of the 31 issues so this piece of paper is not worth the paper he printed. Jim Wright let me whipping it up I would suggest people call the clerk of the house book the line in verse on every roll call and they will find there is not a single distortion on this page of oh you want me to go to some. Let me go to John because I do have a lot of issues here let me move to what I think is one of the crushing issues and this is what my judgment is and I think many people agree on both the Democratic and Republican Party one of the crushing issues of this country is the national deficit which has been described by some people as a monster that devouring this country. Let's take a look at what the budget is because someone who lives in the thirty eighth congressional district might like to know what it's going to cost to run the United States. As of last Friday when I obtained this information from the

office of the budget in the Congress it's going to cost 130 billion dollars to run the United States of America for a year of which there is a deficit of one hundred and eighty billion in other words the revenues coming in are going to fall one hundred eighty billion dollars short in the coming year. How is that achieved. It has achieved by a device that the National that the Congress took last year. The old limit of the national debt with a 1.5 7:3 trillions of dollars. They simply raise the limit which is now one point eight to four trillions of dollars meaning an increase of two hundred fifty one billions of dollars that we can now legally exceed whatever the old debt limit was there you see it 1.5 7:3 trillion. Let's go to the national budget deficit. The national budget deficit according to U.S. Treasury Department announced this week it is for this current year of the Congress. One hundred seventy five point three billion dollars and last year it was exceeded only once in history and that was last year 1983 when a one hundred ninety five point three billion.

The question is the deficit. What can you do. What is your position's pacifically to deal with this monster that is devouring the country economically. The deficit requires an across the board approach you can't cut the same 15 percent of the budget and keep doing that and that's what we've been doing every year and it hasn't made a dent. So what are you going to have to reduce the rate of increase in defense marginally. We're going to have to find a way to defer spending on the social side of the calendar. I've supported a 2 percent solution in what we call 2 percent of the two percent solut percent solution but says basically future entitle ments go up to 2 percent less than inflation. Same thing with future tax cuts would go up. 2 percent less than inflation you imagine national defense. The impression I want to 313 brought in from the Congress he only got two hundred ninety two billion. Would you think that was what two hundred ninety two billion was a 5 percent real increase I voted for that I thought that was a good measure and that's what I would support methadone in that the monster that dividing the

country economically. The deficit what would you do what specific actions would you like to see taken Jim. Before I can take an action I have to get elected re-elected in the house. There is only one way to control what you properly call a monster and that is for the American people to give President Reagan for the first time in my entire adult life since I was too young to vote Liberal. Democratic leadership has controlled the money house the appropriations House the House of Representatives. If the American people give President Reagan 40 conservatives I don't care what party they're in 40 fiscal conservatives who also understand the growth of Soviet military power that malignant growth that we see every year increasing beyond all understanding then the the White House the Senate and the House of Representatives will be in synchronization since the time that LBJ gave us the Great Society and bankruptcy type spend what would be your remedy if you were a sitting member of Congress to attack the truth or to work with this team in the Senate and the White House to reduce the runaway

cost of government. To get rid of waste in the defense program but to begin to analyze this incredible growth of federal spending and give back to the states and counties and cities their proper role of leadership in public service. Let's take a local issue that the Congress of the United States just last week scuttled an 18 billion dollar water project program of which the 1.3 billion dollar program for the center river control project without a part that means that nothing can happen now for a couple of more years. How did you vote on it and how would you attack where we go from here on this terrible problem of trying to contain the flood control problems which occupy perhaps 95 percent of the 38 can get congressional district all of western Orange County when we get a hundred year storm will be two to four feet under water and it would cause 12 to 14 billion dollars worth of damage. As you know Jim I introduced the bill originally some years ago and each year we've gotten a little bit of it going the design and engineering that sort of thing. We said last

year I voted to put it in obviously it's my bill. It was decided that the fact that that was dropped because it was a prop. because the president said he would veto the bill. And so we had no choice. We could have given him a bill and had him veto it and go back. Two weeks later and try to try to pass it over his veto but I don't think we could have an act what do you plan to do next. Well I'll be reintroducing the bill very early next year and talk with the Mr. Rove who's chairman of the subcommittee and he wants to move that bill as quickly as we can. The answer that the 1.3 billion dollars in federal tax dollars it is necessary it's a gross exaggeration to say all of Orange County would be underwater but there would be a horrible loss of property and maybe life it is necessary but there has been the point man for 10 years and he's shown nothing but 10 years of failure. You have five Republicans with the president reestablish conservative coalition in the House and the Senate led by Republicans. And it won't always be attached this worthy project to a huge pork barrel bill naming giant new federal buildings after Congressmen that are unnecessary. It will get the focus it

deserves and with Bob Dornan joining the other for Orange County Congressman. Watch this get passed not in two years Jim but in the first quarter of next year. Bob you voted against the bill I just want because it is a big fat pork barrel bill that all of your liberal friends are getting buildings name going to and sell us. No I voted against the giant public works bill as it is a personal call and asked me to because it was such a waste of money. The problem of dealing with the illegal aliens is a matter of concern to many people who live in the thirty eighth congressional district. What's your position on Simpson-Mazzoli which of course has now been put on the back burner. What's your position on it where do we go from here. We need a name immigration bill very badly the Simpson-Mazzoli bill was probably the worst of all worlds I voted against it it had employer sanctions it had amnesty it had virtually no border beef up the combination of those three things and perhaps many others the guest worker portions made the bill totally unacceptable to the vast majority of people minority as well as majority. You want to comment on that.

I had I had misgivings about several sections of the bill the problem with it was they tried to jam it through in the last few weeks of the Congress which has been typical Neal in the liberal leadership's method of doing government by crisis and and damn packing at the end. If if the leadership Dan Lungren particularly of Orange County is the point man had started that bill at the beginning of a two year term then the compromises would have been worked out on some of the things we mutually object to and we would have had this badly needed Bill. But as long as Liberal Democrats demagogue almost as racists and play to groups and separate Americans we will never have control over our own borders. And his solution in Central America. Is to just pull out watch it go communist and then we'll get waves of people who can walk here. There will be a boat people phenomenon it will be a road phenomena if you were in Congress last week would you have voted as then Langan did for the simple Mazzoli bill no you voted no because it would have been a waste of time because the Senate was never going to agree in conference because the Senate had criminal sanctions in the and the house had only civil sanctions and that and when you do it in the last 10 days of a Congress that's voting every single 24 hours

continuing resolutions to run the government it was a waste of time. People would like to know how I think how you both feel about the fact that a thirty eighth congressional district is probably has a larger component of people who are elderly disabled and minorities. Social Security people people in desperate need of housing. And yet these are programs that require some federal spending. Let's start with you how would you deal with that. On one hand you say you're a fiscal conservative another hand these all these programs take money or they don't fly. How would you deal with that. Aside are social programs have that affect people a sign of the decency of a nation the people of civilization is how they treat their old and their very young including the Preborn senior citizens have a right to never have the government break a contract with them they made and liberal Democrats in this frenzy at the end of this this election. President Reagan is absolutely correct. Started frightening senior citizens that their programs were going to be somehow or other harmed by a lying President

Reagan in the first few months of the what was the year situation what would be your I'll follow the president's lead he's the most senior citizen president we've had in two centuries and those senior citizens with a how to approach a program whereby housing at every one of them and a sad ending for those people who are now young who are going to be living off their grandchildren's money starting about the year 2000 we have to re-evaluate Medicare programs and use something called medical banking where people share with a good insurance policy in the money that they'll be drawing from so it's their money that they're using. Not my granddaughters money who is two years old today. Mr. Harum Internet. Well Jim I'm I'm very supportive of Social Security and also of Medicare I think they're very very important. It was interesting listening to Bob I have a 100 percent rating from the National Council of senior citizens he has a zero percent rating it's a phony liberal grief failed to vote on the minimum benefits for Social Security is one more absence he failed to vote on. So it's

nice to say that you're for it but if you're not there to deliver the votes what good is it. If he supports President Reagan President Reagan proposed a 20 billion dollar cut in Social Security we all know that President Reagan is taking a look at Medicare next year and going to talk about in press for a catastrophic insurance which will raise the premiums that the elderly have to pay. So if that's what Bob Dornan wants then I don't want that catastrophic. I don't want to raise the premiums and I don't support you don't want Reagan I don't support the president in this area right there don't you mind your radio I support him on national defense as you know Bob don't wrap yourself as asshole you like your radio ads. You take money from Jane Fonda and Tony Coelho. And it was all wish the president all that's all Tony called does not give you twenty five thousand a year Tony Quayle Of course he might be and you want to raise 10 for California or let's get back over there you're going to use it to run are very right with the president lying and smearing him when that Jane Fonda's smear. Why are you ashamed to be a liberal Jerry. She's never. We all have

never let Rand lets you know what has never contributed to me that's why Bob she's raising a lot of money for your retarded plan that I don't have any other human being you know with this quote There he goes again. Yeah Mr. Mr. Patterson you have described your opponent as a carpetbagger an arch conservative I think is the term that I've heard you you know raging extremists are conservative carpetbaggers and do you have any reason to withdraw those charges that you have made early on that he was about everybody over in Orange County was registered to vote in Beverly Hills for two years his wife for three years it's a fact that the affidavits are there he tries to say he wasn't there. What would he call it. He didn't move into Orange County to announce to run against me. I mean moving in 10 years ago is one thing or three years ago but moving in and checking into the Holiday Inn and saying I'm running against Jerry Patterson. That's a carpetbagger. What is up his voting attendance. 67 percent about missed every third vote. Much like his right wing money. I smile and i even a hundred crowns in dollars from out of California right wing Richard Viguerie. That's where it comes from.

Jerry is it already is it. Though I did let you know what the current budget deal with the carpetbagger issue I've been coming to Orange County for about thirty eight years. Jerry moved here from out a master were going to several hills Freddie and yes he claims that he lived here when he commuted to look to the law school at UCLA the point is everybody's come to our county from somewhere else. When I defended Hinn in the California Air National Guard as an 86 Saber jet pilot he was living in my old there's never any U.S. to lambast mission and you know I always knew I knew figured fighter combat missions and if you read fluently one Senator Barry Harry Lauder Toronto Star enlisted man to accuse an Air Force officer of stealing Prothero. You're liable to get yourself sued yes my opponent did in 76 and he sailed only five of the congressional honor that I stole the furniture what I mean in the gutter. I don't let you today when I know that you've been flying with an air force pilot but did you fly combat in the air as a reporter 14 missions I did only at nom but not of the. Not as an Air Force Alright let's get that he was a noun during any one time. Yes I was

you're the one who claims being a Korean revenge and I joined when the war was still on in January 5th I don't recall my so when we got out on. When did you join the Coast Guard Jerry. After the with Congress so that I mean when I was older to get your G.I. bill when it was safe and I know your type Mr Dornan Let's move to another area. People in the 38 did to gether doing the rest of this country want to know what this country is going to do about such things as Nicaragua. Do we give more aid to Nicaragua or not in the last closing session to the Congress as you know that just the 98 that just closed the aid to Nicaragua which was that for by the president was put on the backburner and were denied by the Congress. What's your how did you vote and what's your position when I supported that I dated the next Iraq when rebels the Nicaraguan weapon rebels. I would not support overthrowing the government of any country I don't think that's a want to know which attests to take absolutely voted no mystery doright far Bundu martín terrorist guerrillas appear to Loyola University had a little reception form brought Mike Farrell into the district carpetbag what about those that raising money would fund F. And Ed

Asner for this but this is an unease dis Arlette I support the freedom fighters in Iraq Angola Mozambique Vietnam Laos and Cambodia. You'd have a civil war and what about going out. Oh I would have assumed if you felt an offering to God were still on us you would have supported you know what you had already paid for that you were out and you had a nice day I voted against it. Aid to the rebels you would have voted yes to the freedom fighters Yes but he voted aided the Sandinistas I did not tie that's going to El Salvador. What the same tragic little country I support President drafty very strongly he's trying to do the right thing and I think we should follow the Contador process negotiate from strength as he is doing. El Salvador. I support President door to know him personally Jerry's been down there once after this election started I've been down there seven times what we have to do down there is send the economic aid he voted against it. Military aid to defend the economic aid so won't be burned at the airports and on the docks the buses blown up the power towers

dynamited. He voted against the military aid he wants to walk away from that area and watch them pay to Central America red. If the liberal Democratic philosophy that he gets 100 percent ratings on prevails in the house nuclear worries that you that's an unfair thing. All right in front of half a million people in in El Salvador who want a half a million are already up. And these people are basically poor conservative Catholics. They want peace. They don't want communism there only 10 to 12000 communists 40000 troops. We don't need to support that kind of thing. They can take care of themselves. The reason I voted against the economic assistance is because it was coming right back into the bank accounts into Miami. It was a waste to send our economic aid down there and he knows it so let them twist in the wind would know how you know what we want you know we do. What should we do in Central America what should be our POS held at America. I would support helping Central America particularly those governments that require and dignify human rights of their own citizens.

Then don't vote against their economic aid on Friday have an economic aid you have it's in the record again lie again you are. I'm for voting them economic aid and the military ability to defend the economic aid and hold off the terrorists that are funded and supported from Managua. Tell Vanna Cuba to the Soviet Union why is the PLO the ball Gary and the North Koreans and the Vietnamese and the Communist Vietnamese in Nicaragua for insurrection purposes and for a revolution without borders. To quote his friend my Fowles friend Daniel Ortega. All right now what you have portrayed Mr Patterson. As a flaming liberal with never and never use that word in my former as a liberal and not as a liberal and that's an honorable word there's nothing wrong with being a liberal but you have different you know you have described him as a big spending liberal and that is he is one the big spending award from the National Taxpayer want to take that back I have to wonder what watchdog of the Treasury what every one of my dislike of you give the Treasury took twenty one hundred dollars and seventy twenty one hundred

seventy dollars with the furniture out of his congressional office when he lost his race and he's never paid the watchdog of the Treasury 10 and you the chair you said you're the watch so if you disagreed on the Smith are you going to pay a bunch of telephone Jerry here and all of your checks for your return pay raises right through your own canceled 6 or cancel the same day. If they are not square on the same day I doubt it with piece of literature I've ever seen. Yeah sure you can you can see it on the reverse they're all cancel let me tell you a lie 23rd of 84 did you put a Vietnamese man in your newspaper and I call him the deputy foreign minister giving the same banker you want to talk to are you going to pay for your furniture you took two years to get every It's paid for you're in a lot of trouble you're going to get sued Where's your check. Jerry your taste or icy gentleman was winded let me interrupt here again I want to get back into another area that I that I want to discuss and that is the nuclear freeze that's another issue I want to get in this discussion I'd like that the people of the thirty eighth congressional district know how you feel about a nuclear freeze.

I'm for a nuclear freeze I think that we need to reduce the threat of a nuclear war and I think we need to have a Strategic Arms Limitation agreement in the meantime I'm also supporting a very very strong national defense they are not mutually inconsistent how he come to this is very this is how commerce is in assets on the B-1 the nuclear freeze kills the be run we froze the B-1 during the Jimmy Carter years. We froze our Minuteman force a missile sensical site not a nuclear free but it may have been freezing for years and they never respond they will only respond with respect. To strength. And as President Reagan said we have disarmed after four wars three of them I've lived through. We have never tried strain. We only get in wars through weakness. And the liberal policies that he and his liberal friends support not flaming that AlterNet are just not extremists. All honorable men and women but simply wrong in their judgment. He's a liberal and I'm a conservative and that's this race gives you about if you had about 20 seconds now to sum up what would be the biggest reason you'd have for someone in the thirty eighth congressional district to vote for a right to look at our

voting records. Well I've been in attendance 83 percent of the time and he's been in attendance 89 and more I beat him four years at a six and vote on our voting records not on these scurrilous lying junk that he's dropping in the mailbox and one of the men who signed a letter for him said he has no control over his mail program and it doesn't even know what's going out. About 20 seconds. Why didn't someone vote for Jerry Patterson. Well people have done that five times I represented the county in the district and I've done my very best I'll work hard for you I'll be there and I'll continue to do that job. I'll do it with moderation and with good sense and without the extremist influence of right wing money. Thank you my time's almost up now on this first half of our program and I want to thank all of the candidates for the 30th Congressional District and this discussion. Our second half will be debate on Proposition 41 the welfare initiative.