American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with Gordon Carey, 2 of 3

lily those leaders is nature's is so they say that that race is the four was it was it was new is their core one of those in line to get into this question but of course when we all night came to new york with the idea for the freedom ride home gym for jumped at that notion because he'd been known pretty much as eight as a thinker not a doer in recent years he had worked for the labor movement he'd work for the naacp just before coming to court and tom and i think that he realized that this could this could be a something that would put that would put core into the into the limelight could put

nonviolence in the limelight and could of course make it over or something for himself it would make him up important in the sense that that that he would then be heading what's what could become a national also rights organization at that time the naacp in urban league where the where the major organizations all strolling christian leadership conference was not very much involved in anything and doing things any more of and an endorsement was thinking james song this is the opportunity to two how to take hold of the situation in yemen become a major player well for himself and for the organization and you've got ahead of solitude at the hell who can do that community you wrestle make an inspired can lead actor and

gingerly have those qualities i want to live you decide we recruited the writers for the free ride by contacting all of our core chapters around the country and also publicizing it in a newsletter and asking people to well send this information about it then the complete up application form of they were arrested all we got io servo got a couple hundred applications for this thing and we call them pretty carefully home i did a lot of the you know of the reading of them but also marvin rich and others went went through the stacks of these things and try the final pick up who who would be a good candidate for this we were looking for people who

have experience with direct action who could remain nonviolent in the face of violence and we were looking for a mix of a black white young middle aged older on we want to have one member of the cover of the clergy on that on the trip and i think that in the process we went through was that was a pretty good vetting process and we ended up remarkable group of people or more remarkable group of riders this girl because he is a process and who want the call up and big city in many dangerous that yes we announced this project which we try to let people know that you know it could be hard to be dangerous and that we were told exactly what it was going to reduce it were was going to go precisely but we say was going to write a racial bus ride through the deep

south and our constituents newton tank was going to be dangerous and we're with all of that and you say you know that is ninety percent of it was he was a millionaire who now power the requirement for nonviolence was not that they believed in nonviolence you simply that they acted in a nonviolent way in in in the training that we had before the before they departed washington we went to workshops and social dramas of us or a thing and then i'm steve people were shoved in it and then an insulin and then they what they were pretty much tested and while war two people may not of spam is said that they didn't really believe in nonviolence it's remarkable

that during during the rise themselves they remained nonviolent there were there was a regime absolutely no ability to control themselves well you know most of our songs you're training or in washington before the three days of blue book for the other riders allegedly got on the buses were stripped by it and the training that we did in washington dc part of the time by the brit writers got on the buses was largely devoted to social dramas play acting where people would you know you would

have a person and my idea my be a white person sitting in a chair and a black person would come up and an abuse them by calling them nigger lover or makers etc sokolow the face and so wanted that very phrase kinds of methods of trying to see how the person didn't react the more important you are also using the euro also having the audience participate because once juan he's also hit dramas is completed the people would it would would critique it and they were they would suggest that that ok well maybe maybe you should've acted differently maybe annoying answer and so then they'd switch role it's and the other person would get their first new had been the abuser would now become the day of the year the probate that person was who was doing sitting in our sitting on the bus or whatever and then you switch roles and go through the same thing again is something women dr mating

people getting them used to to the idea that that there are they're the kinds of things that might be facing a lot of pressures they might be under home and this was used very effectively throughout course training throughout the years m and m oh wasn't gifted so should i was a pretty standard techniques did use a lot of places see one of the kind of sorted all we did was sort of the same sort of thing that john lawson was doing anything in national home go rose we asked the writers to to write an essay as part of her application

on and basically the nsa consisted of all been telling about their background in nottingham england in civil rights or background in protests of their belief in nonviolence and that sort of thing and there's a reason no no no for this is the consulting when a moment or your list but walzer says there are many more and there was a lot of discussion amongst the staff and then comes along the bottom of the role of women in its image right but it turned out yesterday they're there were quite a few women black women and an n white women on the ride and at linkedin the way we finally decided was that though

what we have the majority you know plurality of men nevertheless we are going to have women and even to begin this week this was that it had to be representative of travel an end in itself you know first met he sings this you know that when i thought of you know was that it was all the people are white black as opposed to what it had been before the wall or oregon i guess that one of the major reasons one major thrust of the freedom ride was to was to movie i was supposed to know

what's true get the movement into the deep south's most most of the action up to up to this time of direct action had been in the upper south were in the north and one of the ideas here was to was to go and i'm excited going to the deepest self i'm amy starting with college campuses that sort of thing to try to get people involved in to kurds and to dissipate locally home and joe we just we do with what we were hoping that this would start a national movement and i think it did but it did it to help facilitate a national movement so go the league has said that wasn't yours

there have been a lot of earlier activity in an indigenous indians in and the journey of reconciliation which was an earlier version of the freedom rides in and travel in buses and trains through the upper south campus i'll be being defined as going north carolina virginia tennessee it's over where there's a deep south morse they characterized by alabama and jackson mississippi hot and there had not been much direct action or much activity in the city's deep southern states because they were much more entrenched with the public official's son and dumb police departments and i we patrols etc that were sliced parkland and ten and part of the upper part of the out of the arm that i'm at barbara the apparatus that that was maintaining the status quo so be thrust into the deep south was was

viewed as a as a pretty dramatic and yes fairly hostile situation jim tom geithner i was assigned to travel route in advance of the of the of the freedom rides and tom went to every campus and replace the town from what's remarkable hedy he did he did so much of the work on this thing and that he had visited all these places came back did gotten reports he be one and every bus station that we're going to be hindered by the layout of it and so on a lot of like your preparation were sweat was taken in the am in the planning of the freedom rides for a campaign back from this preview of of of the freedom ride he has tripled the southern cities

oh i'm telling us that that you'd week we could expect real problems of course he did not have any idea about the specific nature of the problems with calming a southerner himself home an unknown traveling through mississippi and held level alone his pre trip home he was very much aware that there was a potential for four or a great deal of violence again and difficulties so he warned everybody else and then subsequent to that jim farmer well when people were being trained and prepared for this trip jumped repeatedly told people that look you could even be killed on this thing you know you might die angela back out nolasco if you feel of the pitcher backing out will you you are huge just keep it i'm not going to mention home

because of the tsunami a dangerous trip mr jim thought that one and sang some a list of he thought he might be you feel very nice girl for people well they didn't get scared off dave vaden they admit they were they were committed and they decided to continue with a hammer fourteen originally this started out i believe on someone to draw upon the course of the you know john was so i had to had to drop water one point came back to enjoy his back again in birmingham jim farmer of course i dropped out as somewhat because his father's death and doves bangkok's berger berlin beyond cox had to leave home to go deliver a mother's day sermon back in high point it is at his congregational church home and then three other people were recruited day or so these people dropped out and

so on a few people did leave and to leave the right early and others were recruited to take their place again in this video a political bloc and part of the preparation for the freedom ride was was a visit to to all the sites to travel the root by but by tom gage you're one of the one one of the freedom rider one of the women were the core staff people actually from from south carolina and tom love who was black i had to travel the entire route to visit every one of the stations

by the layout of the listeners so in doing this he did not he did not going and test these facilities to be his if he is job was to force to get a feeling for what he did not going by himself an end and test these facilities that that wasn't his assignment at that point all what he came back with a lot of information about the kinds of problems an inch boots with that we might encounter music tom and jim and others knew of course it was dangerous and go home hoping for the best yes but also other things that they wanted was something that we were doing case

scenario and the use of non violent direct action is this is very kind of tricky because on the one hand you'd like to solve all the promise we're going in and talking to people and jam and finding that everything is fine the trouble with that is that it doesn't accomplish very much in many cases for example on the freedom rides themselves the inning the upper south quite a few of the of the towns that we visited had beside a liquid a lot trouble so were just now let these guys come to open up the counties don't no problem and let alone once wrote while that's great that means that that there's some progress amid just a recognition that that that but did that that there are rights of the blacks have ah but on the other hand if if if if if everybody does that and just let you slide through then you have a really

confronted the enemy you haven't confronted segregation and so it to be successful you have to have some kinds of health coverage and press for example now we sent out press releases everywhere the time people what we would be doing press its daily did not pick this up there were almost no coverage of the three years before that took place all we informed the fbi that fbi knew when you and the justice department new artillery was they knew exactly where we're going to be going home and the unfortunate course some people ma ma fbi also inform the local police and dissipated mr n n n n in letting the police know exactly what was going to happen and an end of course that cause problems for us why

the police in the end for me and him and alabama famous for segregation now segregation forever georgia attempts to it to a degree but george it was really no not quite so much so but in alabama and mississippi governor of a state police etc considered that what we were doing which is rabble rousing and that we were trying to cause problems and they felt was maybe with some degree of legitimacy that the federal government was a really behind the idea of full integration that is by the supreme court decisions and the sort of thing they felt that that the that that the slowness of things and that the attitude of the of the white house even give even the

kennedys was that they think should be done quietly n n n n to take time and a voluntary basis so there was there was there was the police had no interest really in supporting the federal law what they were that they had a big interest in him in in subverting the federal law and they felt like what they could do with celebrities to freedom riders a lesson on and joe vic and the complicity of local police at the state level or an engine at the municipal level was was a remarkable and bait and they joined in with a clam maybe more klan members themselves on and on they think that if they had not done this and then of course the picture of the burning bus would not abandon them front page of the new york times and papers

all over the country and it was not about a rose by this and in it it shameful that though that one has to go for one has to create a situation which may cause violence in order to resolve the situation but unfortunately on evil it's not confronted islam going to be result for an easily situation you know you would use this to me

much of the progress it in the ship came in and desegregation in the south that has been made has been the result of the police and live and authorities are causing problems creating violence and so i went out back on a confrontation from the public does not become aware of things you can be you can you do you could lose somebody and without the press knowing about it and went all publicity on brutal happens you've got to have some kind of reaction to what you're doing and dumb the reason that you remain nonviolent issue of the usual practice of great in that while it's you don't you know you don't reciprocate and give and give people a reason to them attack you know what paul unfortunately maybe

fortunately much of the progress has been made has been the result of all of tear gas buildings or something you know and you were right so i look at this there's a new activity for justice you know we were actually the way we were turned when the freedom riders were turned by much of the us press and the police and government in the south and being outside agitators

and now that we were outside agitators in the sense that we were coming down intentionally to agitate and upset the status quo we were not coming down to involve violence we were hoping that we wouldn't get to violence but we knew that in order to change things we had to create what we had upset the status quo we had as we'd had as a take and we had to get them to to two two to act hawke and against us in order to make an order wake up the public to give thinking of the things to weed which so we were when we were outside agitators and in a sense while we were agitating for home for justice for equality and so if they call dozens of the interview

written an entire human being also and educators home it did could create could it could provoke violence home in them anyway soon that violence was necessary in order to awaken people both the public and the and the violators and an end though the police themselves to the fact that that thing that you can't stop progress by by by this while it's then that or even to do is encourage people to go on and continue to happen and theorize and burn boss and they got back on the buses and and that's exactly what was what was planned what would have to happen robin's

you hear your know how i was in new york oh dear i have my i heard about an estimate by the vote the burning bus home in the newspapers and for me you know on the radio and at them as old as we were we were very concerned that home at that point home