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A production of the Mississippi Center for Educational Television number 82 series a conversation with The program, Mrs.Dizzy Dean, length 20 Twenty eight thirty, date 10-17-74, director Luckett. A conversation with Mrs. Dizzy Dean talking today with the widow of the great baseball Hall of Famer is John Stam, sports writer for the Clarion-Ledger in Jackson, Mississippi. When Dear Abby. And Billy Graham. And I noticed a Paul Harvey, every once in a while I see a Paul Harvey thing in it. Having grown up in the baseball enthusiastic city of St. Louis, I listened to my dad tell stories of Dizzy Dean broadcasts and when I was old enough to understand things. Every Saturday, I would watch the game of the week telecast with Pee Wee Reese and Dizzy Dean.
And also in St. Louis, over and over again, I would watch a movie called Pride of St. Louis, which was a biographical movie of Dizzy Dean. In July, a dream came true for me when I was invited to Wiggins, Mississippi, to personally meet Mr. and Mrs. Dean Dean and view the Dizzy Dean Sports Museum. Today, I'm equally proud to be able to sit here and visit with Mrs. Patricia Nash Dean, a lady who I've grown to admire and respect even more so since that meeting. Mrs. Dean, thank you very much for joining us and welcome. Thank you for having me, John. I'm proud to be here. Having watched that movie so many times the first question that comes to my mind is, did Dizzy really climb that ladder? No, John, no, uh that, we had no script supervision and we didn't have not have strip supervision on that show. And it was a make believe picture, it wasn't really the life of Dizzy and him climbing the ladder, my daddy woulda probably held the ladder not only get rid of me. But, I think that picture missed the point completely. Because, um,
Dizz was -- his life was America. America. In America. You are not born to your station. You - Anything that you aspire to be. And if you have the ability and the will to do it in America it can happen. And that to me would, should have been the story of Dizzy Dean's life because he came up from the bottom. [Mmhmm] tenement. Cotton farmer. They never owned their own land or property. They sharecropped. He had very little formal education. He had this desire this burning desire to be a ballplayer. He told me one time. That he heard a radio broadcast on an old crystal set, whatever that is, because I don't, I don't know what it was. Where he had put the earphones in ears and one would listen to the
broadcast a little while and somebody else. And it was the Washington Senators. And, uh, uhh Christy Mathewson was pitching. And, um, his father told me this story too. He says Diz turned around... Jay, because his father never called him Diz. said. And he says someday dad you're going to be here. You're going to be hearing me. Of me. Pitching in a World Series and that was a desire of his and it came true just as all American dreams can come true no matter. What station in life you're born just because you're poor, poverty stricken-- doesn't mean a thing if you've got the guts and the will to overcome. You can do it. How did you meet Dizzy? I was working in a shoe store. I had a hosiery department in a shoe store in Wiggans, uh in Houston, Texas and his stepbrother's wife was my bookkeeper. And Dizz came, they sent him back from, uh, from St. Louis, he went up in the spring of, uh 30,
went up in the fall of '30 the first time. He pitched one game after the Cardinals had cinched the pennant, and um, he won. He beat Pittsburgh three to one. Then they went to spring training with the Cardinals and he was a brash rookie. And with no previous minor league training. And so they took him to spring training, and then they sent him down to Houston, to the minor leagues, to get some seasoning. And so his, he and his stepbrother used to come to the story every afternoon and pick up his step brother's why. And so, they see me one...one day and he asked, uh, HattieRae who that black haired girl was, and she told him, and he said well I'm going to marry her. And John. I met Diz one Monday. And we were married the next Monday. And that was 43 years. When did he propose to you? The first night. We had a date.
I went to the ball game. He was pitching. He wanted me to go to the ball game, I went to the ball game. I was engaged to marry someone else, but I met Dizzy. A doctor. And I don't know, his need for me and my need for him, it just... Because that's the way it was. Was he pitching that night that you were there? Yes, he was pitching and he won. When he walked off the mound, did he kind of give you the eyes? Yes, he'd always give his eyesight, and he did that all the years he pitched, John, both the major and the minor leagues. I, uh... Diz was only in... we only spent one season that year in the minor leagues. He played for Houston, Houston Buffaloes in the Texas League, and they won the pennant in the Texas League that year and played, um... Birmingham was in the Southern League and Earl Caldwell... Diz won 26 ball games that year and lost ten, and he was of course the strikeout king too. But anyway, Earl Caldwell was an old pitcher. He had been in the majors at one
time and had come back to the minor leagues, and he pitched against Diz in the opening game of the Little World Series, we called it then. The, uh, Texas League in the 70's and Earl beat him, one to nothing. Somebody hit a home run off Diz. And I have that baseball. In the museum. That was hit off this. In that, uh, in 1931 The next year you went up to the majors? The next year, we up to the majors, and we stayed. And your life as a wife of a sports figure started, then. Yes. You, you were unique in the fact that you traveled every place with Dizzy, home and away, didn't you? Well... Or most of the time? I did all the time. All the years that he played ball and most of the years that he broadcast until I became became ill with a severe heart condition. Diz was a very gregarious person. He loved people. And, um he, he, needed he actually, he needed someone to take care of his business thing.
And I had had business experience. And so I just travel with Diz. All the contracts that he ever made outside of his baseball contract. Uh, I I worked them out. And so I travel with him and. The ball clubs there was only one manager that ever did, uh, didn't want me to travel with him and it was Gabby Hartnett, of the Cubs when he was made manager, when Charlie Grimm was let out, he was made manager we were with the Cubs at the time. He didn't want any of the wives to travel. So Judge Landis was commissioner at that time. And, um, I called Judge Landis' office. And I told him who I was, and said Judge Landis is there any rule against a wife travelling with a ball...with her husband and the ball club? He says, "No indeed Ms. Dini says I wish more wives would travel we'd have a whole lot better ball players. He'll he relied relied upon you greatly helping you with the business. Yes always.
I did all, all the business. And that's the thing that's made it so hard now, John, I have been sick, as you know. I've had several severe heart attacks. Also, I have cancer. The Thursday and Friday and the Monday and Tuesday the four working days previous to the time we left to go on this trip to Harvey's to Lake Tahoe. I spent in changing our investments. To protect Dizzy. Not as joint investments. Because...by all rights, by all medical science. I should have gone before Dizzy. And I, I spent those four days Getting our business in order. But all keyed to Dizzy. Living me. And of course when this tragedy came it has been very difficult for me because I've got to start all over. I've had to start all over again.
in our investments and things and when you're under the watchful eye of the Internal Revenue Service and the state tax department you have to-- Everything has to be accounted for. Which is making me very...it's upsetting me, and I...I'll be so glad when it's over because I, uh, God gave us what we have and I'll give it back to Him And this museum is a big dream of yours. Yes. You've found and built museum and put all the stuff the stuff in there mostly yourself. Yes I, I built it, I built it. I had no plans. I built it on my own plans. And I did it myself. And the things that I have in there that were, that I have oh so much more and some that has been lost through the years. I did find two, two scrap books that I had let uh, a man in, uh, Scottsdale Arizona have. He wanted to read this and he wrote and told me he had those. And was sending him back to me. I had forgotten where they were. The back of our earlier days, you know, and I
know the museum was, was my dream. And I wanted it for something. I knew Diz was ready to retire and he was gonna be 65 and then and, uh. Living in a small town like Wiggins There's not too much to do, and it would give him something to do and he could go ahead and meet his public like he always did. He loved people so. And he loved kids he loved to work with them. However, one time he was not he was not in favor of Little League. In fact he came out strongly against it. Until, uh, uh, people became aware- mothers and fathers became aware that their children could be hurt PHYSICALLY by playing Little League and not having someone know how to take care of what damage could be done to a child's arm, the school property. And there was too much stress being put upon winning.
Dizzy couldn't see that. He felt like they should all play baseball, yes, but play one eyed cat, one old cat, whatever it was, or any over, anything but a scrub piece. But don't go out to win and just, winning was a life or death matter. He couldn't see that because, we saw children, young boys, if they made an error- they'd come in and cry. They were not emotionally, they're not emotionally Mature enough to play winning baseball at that age. And he was very much opposed to it. And of course the most of the coaches of the little league these are the fathers of some of the boys, and they they have no no athletic experience. and you teach a child to throw a curve ball at that age look at Carl Hubbell's arm goes around like this. Your throwing screwball, aren't you? That's a screwball. And so when he first come out, you'd thought he'd come out against motherhood.
Oh I think in two years from then, Life magazine came out with a series, I don't know how many pages, almost half of the magazine, Was little league and the doctor's pictures and reports of what had happened to young children's arms, young boys' arms. Also what had happened to them psychologically. with this winning thing, the children wouldn't eat they wouldn't, uh. Oh! it was. So it verified what he thought. Yes. And so then when that came out Life magazine was very well accredited, you know, and. Then the Little League began to go to...to do as make it first a game, a training game. But don't don't, don't kill yourself to win. And uh, um Dizz never, Oh, he would just get, we went to a little league they were a pitcher would be
a very good pitcher and the coach would leave him in there. And Dizz has gotten up and walked down on the bench. And said "Look, You take that kid out of there or I'm going to tell their mother and father what's going to happen to them. He says he's got a business in there this entire game." When he, when he was pitching, did he take the game seriously? Yes. His attitude off the field was so jovial and fun loving really. Diz had great confidence in himself, and he was a great pitcher. There's no doubt about it. He was ballet in his delivery. The high kick and uh. Yes. And, um, perfect concentration. If you ever pitched to a hitter, say if he hit a curve ball, he wouldn't get another curve ball. Or if he hit the fastball. he'd never get another fastball. Diz just remembered. The, the do's and don'ts of all the
hitters. And in all the years, John, that he broadcast he never kept a scorecard. No no. But he could tell you from the first inning right straight through what every man did but he never kept a scorecard. He had a remarkable mind. To him baseball was the epitome of happiness. It was a way of life. So he did take it seriously even though some of his antics and things he'd do on the field? He never took himself, really truly, he never took anything too seriously because he said tomorrow's a new day. That was his philosophy. So,a loss like giving up a home run the ninth inning didn't effect him that much. No no. He just made a bad pitch. And the guy got hold of it. But tomorrow is a new day, and you start off tomorrow by learning what you, what went wrong today. And he didn't grumble about it or anything. Lot of times he felt like it was his own
stupidity that caused him to lose a ball game, but he would defy knowing some hitter could hit a low fastball and he would dare to hit it and throw a low fastball in there. And he would hit it. That might cause Diz to lose a game. He was, uh, he didn't think anybody was better than he was. That any hitter was better than he was as a pitcher. When he was injured in the All-Star Game when the line drive hit his ankle, how that affected him? It his toe It hit is toe, that's right. It broke his toe. I blame myself for that episode. This was a fourth year that Dizz had been selected for the All-Star Game. And, uh, he had he was tired of it. For the simple reason that the Cardinals at that time never had an off day. They played an exhibition game somewhere on and off days instead of letting the fellows rest a little bit. Have a day off. They'd send 'em to Kalamazoo or to wherever to, uh, play, play an exhibition game. And the All-Star break was a three day
break. That the other fellows on the team got to rest. And Dizz was if he had won 12 ball games and lost one. That year when he went to that All-Star game. They were pitching more often in those days than they do now, too. Yes. We only had four starting pitchers. And he came in they were playing in Chicago and I thought Dizz was going to the All-Star game from Chicago. About 11 o'clock at night. The doorbell rang. I went to the door, and it was Diz. Came home. I says why didn't you go to Washington. He said I'm not going to the all star game. He says I'm tired of the All-Star Game. He says I want some rest he said. I'm tired, he says, I'm pitching in a turn out a turn, and he says I'm tired. And I started talking to him, and I says does your letting the, this was the days of the fans now voted the, uh, players and all. The clubs didn't the fans, and I said Dizz, you're going to let your fans down. Because they have voted you number one. On
the pitching staff for the All-Star game. He would be the starting pitcher? Yes, he would be the starting pitcher. I said Honey, you know. It's not fair I says I think you're doing wrong. He says I'm not going. I said alright, if you're not going. So about that time the telephone rang and it was Mr. Sam Braden, the owner of the Cardinals he wanted to come over and talk to Diz. And it was, 12:30, 1:00 o'clock the morning I told him "come on", which he did. And he said, he says, just go even if you don't suit up. So we finally talked him into it, and all the time him was saying he didn't want to go. Evidently he had a premonition of something that that he shouldn't go to that All-Star Game. And, they took a plane out the next morning and got into Washington. And that line drive Earl Avril hit a line drive. Not a strongest toe. Diz retrieve the ball, threw him out. But he broke his toe. And,
he came home. Now, he toe had not been put in a splint or anything. Because the St. Louis Cardinals doctor was in St. Louis and the Cardinals at that time was going to hire another doctor somewhere to do something for their club. Because this is the days before the hundred, one hundred fifty thousand, two hundred thousand dollar ballplayers. That year Diz was making something. Let's see I think you made twenty-five, twenty-two five, that year. () Had almost the highest salary he every had, too. Twenty-five five was the highest salary that was ever paid in the National League up until he got twenty-five five, highest salary that a pitcher he'd ever gotten in the National League and that was the that was '34, that was. '35 and '36. But anyway he came home and he was limping. And he had a shoe off. Just in his socks, and I called Dr. Harlen, our club doctor. He says bring him over here right away, Pat. Which I did. And his toe was broken, his big toe was broken.
Well. He's splinted it, he took care of it. They treated everything. And the cardinals were winning. They're on top that time when Dizz got hurt. Well they began to take a nosedive. And Mr. Ricky. A very, a most persuasive man in his, for his own benefit. Asked Diz, they were playing in Boston. The team went on the road and that was a time we used to have three weeks on the road, you know. We play the entire circuit around we didn't go in for a day or so on and so he says Diz if you're, He says just you being there you, Jerome, he called him I'm sorry, he didn't ever call him Dizzy, he called him Jerome. And which I couldn't stand...And um He told him he says, Jerome, he says just you being with the Cardinals. The fact that you're there, your presence will give them
confidence it might pull us out of this slump and we have a chance to win it. He said you won't have to pitch. I promise you won't have to pitch. So. Dizz and I get on a train Train going to Boston. And Bill McKekny was managing Boston at that time time. Gabby Street was managing the Cardinals. And. This. told Dizz to suit up. And he says I'm not supposed to suit up And he said yes, well suit up, and sit on the bench. "Starting pitcher J. Dean" when the announced the line up. Well, he could pitch with his natural rhythm. That his shoe was cut out, his spikes. The toe was cut out, his toe was exposed. Yes, you could not pitch with his natural motion. And he began to throw with his arm. And Bill McKekny came out from that, from the Braves dugout. That's when the Braves were in Boston.
Before they moved to Milwaukee. He says Diz please. He says Don't pitch another ball. He says Dizz you're going to ruin your arm. Rabbit Maranville, you remember Rabbit, Rabbit came in. He says Diz he said I'd rather we forfeit this game to you, to the Cardinals, than to see you ruin your arm, which you are going to do. You're pitching off stride. You're you're pitching only with your arm. And John, about the seventh inning inning of that ball game, Dizz through his arm out, and when it went out you could hear it all over the ballpark. It was a crack just like a pistol shot. Just like a pistol shot. And then of course hurting his arm. Well, he tried to pitch with it. See Harding is told. He was through. He was absolutely through. And Mr. Rigley. It was a sad thing. This as I say had won 12 and lost one, it would have been the biggest year he'd ever had.
And at the end of the year, Baseball, some club owners, I'm going to say I don't know them now, but in my day. Our day some club owners looked for the dollar regardless of what happened to the man. They can quickly forget, too. Yes, just like. Mr. Ricky. Dizz held out the year after he won the 30 ball games. And, Mr. Ricky he was he was having a lot of fun down and when we lived in Braden, Florida and Diz was having a lot of fun during spring training playing golf with Babe Ruth over St. the Yankees are training the St. Pete's. so. There's Dizz was over there playing golf with babe and everything and he was in excellent condition he didn't have to work out anyway because he kept himself in excellent condition that time. And, so it was nearly the end of the spring training and
Mr. Braden had talked to Dizz and Frank had talked to him and try to get a contract and Dizz Diz was adamant in his stand of what he was going to have and that was it. So one night, it was about, oh, we come in from St. Petersburg after playing golf, got in to his about 9:30, 10:00 o'clock. At that time, we had an Auburn automobile that had an air horn. It sounded like one of the old Greyhound bus, like Woooo. And as we come by the Manatee River Hotel where the club was staying. We come by there and Diz would blast out without a horn. You just pull it and it would wake up the whole town. And, um, So they knew we were at home, so Mr. Ricky called and asked Diz he can come out and talk to him. Well he says, I'm in bed Mr. Ricky, but you can come out if you want to. So Mr Ricky and Clarence Lloyd and Franky Frish, Clarence Lloyd was our traveling secretary. And Frish was the manager then. And they came out to talk to Dizz about he says I'm not going to talk contract. He says, now Jerome, he says, I'm not gonna talk contract, He says, all I came out here for
tonight, is, I know Mrs. Dean doesn't like me. And I want to change and Diz say, oh yes Mr. Ricky Ms Dean likes you. I says, oh no I don't Diz I don't like him for anything. And I says As I'm concerned this conversation is terminated. I said because Diz had told you what he wants. That's what he's going to get. Good night all. And that's the way it ended and he fina... because it wasn't fair, it wasn't fair. Diz pitching. In. in '34,John, He was in 51, out of the 154 ballgames that was played that. Which is something that doesn't happen now at all. No. Besides exhibition ball games he pitched. But he was in 51, a third, of the ballgame. He either got credit for winning or losing or holding or saving the game in 51 games. You're looking back now what what me Dizzy Dean so great to you.
His love. His ability to love. And to give love and expect love. He loved. He loved everybody and everything. Dizzy Dean I don't believe has ever said an unkind word about anybody. Even though he was in public and appeared to be a very open person, he was really shy you say? He was basically a shy man. That I think came from his upbringing. He was a little self-conscious. Uh, probably I I think so about the way he was not having the education. He didn't use proper English, uh John, He never he never knew a woman well enough to call her by her first name. Except me. So he called you by your first name. He didn't call me, he called me mom. But no Diz was
Diz had the utmost respect. In that way, that I think that's why I think he was shy. No matter how well, or how dear friends and we were we would spend weeks together. He would still. Miss, Miss Ona, Miss Hazel, Miss Helen. He would never up to his dying day. He never called called anybody by their first name any lady by their first name. And he dearly loved the State of Mississippi even though he wasn't born there. Yes, he loved, he elected to come to the state of Mississippi. He chose this out of all the states in the Union to make his home. And, at one time Jerome, the State of Mississippi needed a voice. That voice was Dizzy Dean. Very much so. It cost him his job. It didn't matter. It cost him his job but it didn't matter. This is been a conversation with
Mrs. Dizzy Dean. He did what he had to do for his state, and in his will, the third paragraph in his will. Stated, that I want to be buried in the Bond Cemetery with the rest of my people. In the Bond Cemetery is a little country cemetery with a barbed wire fence around it. But he wanted to be buried there. Beautiful. You didn't know that until after he was buried. Nope, didn't open Diz's Will until 11 O'clock on Tuesday morning after he was buried.
Series
A Conversation With
Episode
Mrs. Dizzy Dean
Contributing Organization
Mississippi Public Broadcasting (Jackson, Mississippi)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip/60-54kkwp96
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Description
Series Description
A Conversation With is a talk show featuring discussions with public figures in Mississippi.
Description
Series: A Conversation With Time: 28:30 PGM: Mrs. Dizzy Dean An interview with Patricia Dean, wife of professional baseball player Dizzy Dean.
Created Date
1974-10-17
Asset type
Episode
Genres
Talk Show
Topics
Sports
Media type
Moving Image
Duration
00:29:07
Embed Code
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Credits
AAPB Contributor Holdings
Mississippi Public Broadcasting
Identifier: MPB 2514 (MPB)
Format: Betacam: SP
Generation: Air version
Duration: 0:28:30
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Citations
Chicago: “A Conversation With; Mrs. Dizzy Dean,” 1974-10-17, Mississippi Public Broadcasting, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 28, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-60-54kkwp96.
MLA: “A Conversation With; Mrs. Dizzy Dean.” 1974-10-17. Mississippi Public Broadcasting, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 28, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-60-54kkwp96>.
APA: A Conversation With; Mrs. Dizzy Dean. Boston, MA: Mississippi Public Broadcasting, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-60-54kkwp96