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it's bno noi just takethe patientsyou are one of thirteen i use a threeand i think he says the use of how this albumwas the day he says the aisleas in wholeconversations they contain compounds thatperspective and motivations with him andmezzo
i'm going tobe rightthank youyou know and the business of wayand it would be a great assistance that we had the originalband informationmm mmmm mm mm wowas the committee members take time forlittle cooling off and some lunch we're going to take a pause public television's coverage of the senatehearings we'll continue after a break for station identification unabridgedcoverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs
the public broadcasting service it'sbeenterry and pike continues its coverage or hearings by the senate select committee
on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert might be youafter lunch manana counsel fred thompson resumes his questioning about that marchtwenty first meeting with president nixon and john deehe'sbackmrneedhamrightand you're rightgarry
marshallto forestall a lot thatwhat extent that you're listening to that plate refresh your momi would say that it confirm my memoryon thisepisodeyou'reinterestedrecommendationit was set very
much as i describe what i heard on the tape leaders as having taken place in yourparty conversation the year you're thepresident or mr bean when i came in turn to thatsubject and said that there had been a threat by mr just right atthat point in time that he was demandinghundred and twenty thousand dollars and that if he didn't get it he wouldreveal the seen the things he had done for them andthen the president went through the one question mightmake it relate to communicate inlong on thequestion of the conversation when i was there i think sowhether it was then or what he said was and what he said to me laterin the same regard was that it had been relate directly to
him johnny by mr bittman who was oncecounsel yesvia the point was made that that thiskind of thing if it were extended on integrated time we go to as much as a million dollarsin answer to those who say wellto answer to the voters this is going to have allits it'spossible that point that the president set it saythat the gentleman that could amount to as much asa curve there's no question that this
whole discussion of the government while so close was hadbeen it was clear when it eliminated my knowledge know whathappened before was clear when i came in and to me that they hadalready discussed listener and at that point that was being discussedand questions and so on the river as they had beendiscussed before the president was pursuing it for him in interrogatingyou mentioned is in london on the manif imay i prefer to live inthe community as to be arestriction that had placed placed on it by the white houseand in the effort to get all these materials reading we left
out that's rightand in the end it wasregarding theconversation after it even though the room and do you have some you knowif it does what should've been in this eventjust natural after oneof the worstwe only have onei will read the entire thing because it's it's be doneexcept for the portion that i should have been included in both there was a
time after a piecemeal do you think would be helpfuland it's i think they have been mostcases there because all is this only covers the portion of what the other one pointthat there was a car rightthat's rightto the best of my recollection when i entered the meeting there was adiscussion regarding the threat that he be given a hundred and twenty thousand dollars or else he would tell franktalk about things he had done for it was clear this had also been discussed earlier inthe day the president asked the leading questions about what he would recommend howsuch a painting could be made and so there was a reference to a long term need for as
much as a million dollars didn't describe the process of transferring of delivering thefonz and this is when being said next time he'd be more knowledgeable which ilaughed that's references why realized that this out inme and then i say that because in the conclusion i made the point on impressions thathis statement that he would be more knowledgeable next time i'm laughing at that isalso an event that he says took place in the march thirteenth me laid back when summer'sfirst the yeahnowby asking a number of questions about what
it would get some of this kind of mining which means it was hard to give them the presidentresponded it wasn't hard to do to get the question that was what you do with it how do you deliver itwith what's been done in the past with the water there processors involvedin that kind of league westconversation with you again andthis four yearsof believing that that was that was the first commander that helistened to me what makes you think that whatthe president is trying to broadly now what you mean the same girli think he was asking that kind of question that was designed to try tofind out to try to get the information for themselves as to whatreally was involved in all this and what we knowyou think about
this something todo with it he wastrying to find out what the process was being described as well what you'vedone earlier but that you describe it as asone of the examples of the things that had been happening it was a thing thepresident was pursuingthank you listen to conservation before you'represently at this sametime oh yes it more detail more than that more extensiveyou know why do they want to press cuba analyst juan thesame conversation moves i'm going to live in the same dollaryear residents of that are very honest conversation what was an
interview in a residencewhat i'm wondering isdoes this is exactly why the president would guess this question what was a really interestedin one of the most in the race for this and all right i don't think he wasthe questions he was asking where work in the direction of america whether a million dollars could beraised but rather that direction what this process wasto get this righti think he was trying to findout what was going onwhat you mean who exactly was fun to the blackmail exactly our plan carriedout the article was doing and he was trying to find out how it was being carriedout would be carried out at as being the lobby and desperation will be inplace to learn about the reason
i'm not sure that he didi think he was asking him in a more he he wasmasking the specific sense he didn't couldn't say what are you doing this on sunday we asked what whatwere the kinds ofquestions i think the wind has as ihave indicated in the earlier session he would he'dlean one way and even the other one other reason he would he would ask well you do this is asyour recommendation is this what we need to do is this what are the guns isthat water then he would go the other way and say that you can't do thatas we can raise that kind of money but it would be wrong to know what i'm wonderingand again this is your course you won't be onespn of this was his recommendation to him it's all money not
unless he was suspicious of the warming beans allinvolve what that they were possibly going to raise thismoney i i think he was at a point whereyeah oh it's very difficult for me to characterize the balloonsexcept that he was driving was clear that he's turning in for me agent now why i was trying toget the information is not clear to me there certainlywas not going to be then i think that he had hearda number of things in that meeting and this was ithink the most shocking thing to remember the woman that was of most concern tohim was the one he was exploring you willand in a conversation with you did not we were not present
when us in the conversation president said something to the effect of theoverall yesi don't recall any of those thingsvery hard on something like this isn't sure you understand to do that say affirmativelythat something was not done because i'm going on recollection of whati can what was intendedasa which were discussed in your presence at state that they discuss pokemonsuggestion that ever won one national trends are all people shouldgo in a media the president this morning prior to bea human being which this suggestion has been raised bymr brockhouse suggestion race to who has asuggestion i believe the president then in saying thati will do with the total situation that
there now appears to be this these various rabin is a member of itthat'snot going to work and then the question he was he startedexploring what what do you do with me trying to sell only angels wesee what i write that's certainly boss wanting istrying to use say i react to itmy reaction i think either that or a meeting laterwas that the way to get this thing uncoverand i was to put on a white house statement that was my view and the thingabout that time in the week should try to put the whole all the factstogether put them into a definitive statement of thosefacts and released un that was my view as contrasted that ibelieve at that time during an interview that they're a way to get all this established a minute in a
proper form and recognizing i didn't understand the legalquestionthe others which weremy idea wasn't my soul into it with the idea i was espousing of theoverall statement said what you're not a lawyer because you're aliveand rendered it i know alot more about renter's day that i knew that then and i i'm not i did notknow and i think it again in this period our grand jury work that isuggested at one point were raised a question i don't get noticed that meeting or some other meanthat the grand jury sounded like a good idea we could then release the grandjury testimony i didn't know that that he couldn't really is grand jury testimony and i thought maybethat was an approach that others made a letter to the grand jury and then released a record
amount of a grand jury can do that but i also know so now that the people whotestified in danger againthesituation itsuggested there is reaction i finally react to meyou may have to what was his historic moment subjectwas the general feeling then from what you know of conversations with youwell it did come up in the afternoon the sameday or so and no it came up at several timesin the period of that week the unyesterday nice position on the grand jury ideawas that it would be a good idea to have everybody go to the grand jury but with
immunity and that that was the best way to get out the truth is if everybodyregretted getting out than he should've known as a lawyer i didn't know at that timethat one of course immunity only by first looking for from them and that had i knownthat i would have strenuously object of that approach as john ehrlichmandidn't get out on the grounds of the day as i recall the grounds that thatit just that didn't make any sense that anyone asked him whya live interview was needed andwhy live videois in the white house would need anadventure i think thatand this was discussed they told
me that he felt it was importantand that is extended in his view that extended tosurvey to himself impossibly to be and possibly be toolittle more dispersed whenpresident or you're right they're going to gothrough menopause or the part that you just readyou stated intervention been said thathe was aware that he was present at the presidenttelevisionhe andi i recall one because its roots in thenotes one specific thing where you were as they were discussing one of theseitems being the president was asking questions i
don't think the questions were quite making sense to be an essential <unk> president know thatthat i'm covering things with you hear that you know nothing about it was aclear and flat statement about thatthe juror discussed thisconversation on running for president in a senseit's the same mild mannered he didn't deserve damages doesn't workfor thankyouthat's iti'm not surethat the idea is
passivity conversation about this is going back from that pointon march twenty first on the president became very much itinvolved in seeking informationabout some of these things and talking about the various peopleand you know you see a poster of them in fact gatheringbusiness and then on the thirtieth of march while we're in key biscayneover the weekend the twenty thirteen he raised a number ofquestions that came out of his sorting through what he had been toldby jumping on the twenty first and at oneparticular time so that it's very clear that hemade a pointpoems that all of the subjects all major
ports in the conversation yet becausewhat the point that the president wantedit to be with me there was somediscussion about that we mentioned the movie there's something there and thatsuch a meeting was set up for the next morning the next dayon the support of the final conversationbetween the cause the most pain when you're notimagine first of all thatand i'm on within the dnc in that hegot his information which is that yes he went through ibelieve some of the details craig anengineer and ithink that testimony
soreally right after the break thatwas a separate panel oneelement and so what they wantis a concern in one of not about the break in a lot of that involvedplanning to rekindle eganhe said that lady coursehe does this time hewas he was not certain but hisopinion was that bulger had been involved in theplanning and the knowledge of the reagan and heindicated that he wasn't sure whether mr mitchell had known about it or
not you knowmartin worethe yellow flames that he felt that the huge amount of stmartin's an indication hesaid that as far as a job at that time given the terminology was prejune seventeen and posted city and it's huge hedevoted his reporting the region seventy three juneseventeen he said the middle of the lawn of the white house of all that is ohwell you describe his meetings with theattorney general and libyan man recruiter at which they're anintelligent plan is discussed i don't believethat he indicated that i'm virtually certain it any
and again he thought that these meetings have specificallyrelated to the break in at the democratic national committee that had been general plans for general ofthose programs but with filling and consume oilkinds of activities that waiting till the president to be a reporterto me on those meetings and as the after the second of those meetings and thathe still had recommended to me that are just be turned offand not involved at all in such thing as aminimum that's just for mewhich i don't recall specificallyregardingis his assertion that meeting to me a pointsometime in the us and to get in anyi believe said that that is concerned
as far as the white house was concerned as far as white house was involved andprima june seventeenth there was intopossible is one that there had been a phone call from colson to mcgregor whichcould have been considered or could be construed as pressure by paul simonwho dared to go ahead with this project i don't think any real specificsand the other point wasthat the question well have seenthe segal i think the fruits of the lobbying activity becauseit was his understanding that the fruits have an incentive to start what will buti don't really identify that basis i don't recalli think he simply said that videoso on to the web he was getting his information we get isn't mission toboston so
i think thatthere is part of this is you don't evenremember idiots and charities drawnabouthis recent incident or no the only regret i have is for straws concernis the key consistently cityonregions of the game was those two points or basically at its heartregent seventeen june seventeen he said that therewere also two areas of concern thatone was one and see any other words that was moneyin an atlanta syria where you know there was
a potential problem was in the fact that as he put it at thattime as best i can recall pull some had a talk with anorgan about clemency and then aconversation i don't think you went any further than that i don't think he asserted that their identityany offer any events or simply that there had been a conversationyour imaginative time either in your presence aroundher presence you heard from the tape aboutcarlson's offering hot executive clemencyor through someone else was really a message that he expects wellthere was a sense that on march twenty thirteenthe day beforehis house and even having
read than a quarter of them have read of the human toll of the readingof the court a letter and the allegations that were contained in thatad raised raise the point with me that here we werewith new ongoing developments on the lawn of the watergate the white house is still notmoving ahead to get this thing where it up and you picked up facts frombeing any of their information from being thathe was concerned and he specifically asked me toand i asked him about this questionwhether he or any conversationsthat's ityes anything that i'm talking
about in terms of that march twenty first meeting in the morning it isof necessityus different than anything any decision afterthat was it wasn't i don't recall any conversation after that in the march twenty first meetingof that sort of that man sorry i didn't understand that to be your questionwe're about doing things mayserve as a mission determined that when thefirst meeting as vivian ohlet's just sayit the report was one of those twoconcerns was thereason for his concern was it was his understanding that paulson had talked with
one or with that than about policy discussion andlearn with all the long desertwhich was which was cited as an example a video ofthe problem of money he also that was the most recent example hedid describe to the president somebackground as a sense ofmoney for independence that day other thannever in fact money and then had been obtained had beenprovided to the defendants and i'm virtually certain to besaid that this is really inother words you know the way i do not recall in thatmeeting you there when i was there or at any time prior to when i came
in but what i heard on the tape any reference to money being supplied fordefendants oddsthe bills i think wasonly a passing reference as so he was talking about otherpossible areas of concern is principal areas of concern was juneseventeen workers have more money and fancyfree june seventeen were were different thenhe said there are other possible related problemsthat may come out and among them are i'm nottrying to say that because i think some of these came up that these were presented as a list ofother problems that came up in him in relation to other things he was
talking about in the course of the conversation referred tothe als er doctor rate which is the first time i've heard any referenceto that when he talked about thislater it was the first time i remember imay not a concert before them for it to take because i think it was discussedduring training camp david agreementsomething of something at the brookings institutionthe security matter hamasgeneral money raising and then expendituresjob wouldyou that's right the calls an investigation a chapelservice to the president did that it was clear what they're allno i
don't believe it i think they wereso that these were not i don't recall any of thesebig on into any detail they were raised as anotherpotent of alli'msteve inskeepi'm waiting to see youyou knowgoodquestionor thecombination of the lawthat my accuracy and tempting to
describe the contents of those tapes is that subject to verificationfor possible verification and nine with notmaking any great analogythankyoujohnraise the question of possible vulnerability with meduring our series of phone conversations were using camp david and i was akey biscayne washingtongenerally in terms notlegal vulnerability and he generally spoke about that
way it would come up as he was describing what he was finding and what the problems weresaid there's there's a possibility of a problem for you here and the questionof the other three hundred and fifty thousand dollars and that that would ariseif it were determined rebel alliance with this money wereused for defendants silencer or something of that sort and won everyrace that point he did several times we know that myunderstanding that that was not the purpose is an innovation placeconversations with them to be a reason you mightmake you will raiseup he in the end of march her again he hedid at times raised the point that another possible vulnerabilityand my heart would be my having ok come on raisingfunds but at other times he decided that only has as jonathan's one of only in other
words that you'd only check of john oliver yet that didn't always come through thesame way and sometimes it was the future of john ehrlichman and me before us come out and raise moneyand other times he saidlester discusses marlon less damage and your possiblethe last time i mention my boss about the mission impossible threewas a conversation anew zoneknew until march twenty thirteen as twenty thirteen backtwenty eight now i'm sure that that because wehave a continuing discussions on through the period up to apro us open in april so i would guess that thatthis question would have arisen during the course of those discussionsin china
yesterday outgoingwanted you forced an indication that you've gone stateus get in other waysi guess from the newspaperstories that there were reporting what he was supposedly going to jos committeeor you know it was a tiny wiggling his attorneysare so few years in terms ofwhat i was during the period during the week ofapril eighth april firsttime we were in san clementeand he was in washington he toldme that his attorneys had met with the us attorney isan informal sessions to such sessions in that during
that we enable and he told me what the nature of the general nature least oftheir discussions and then and then he toldme as i said in my state that the us attorneyshad told his attorneys that they were not concerned with any post juneseventeen questions and they were only concerned with the pre june seventeen problemsand in that areathey were not seeking diaz aprinciple powers of the target is but thatwere seeking him as a witness and that they have indicated tohim that they probably would not be seeking me as a witnessthat's betteryes yesso
difficult to mesusan and at that time there was no i didn't know whywould feel compelled to scapegoat for it would be a mistake it would beescapism and in addition the beautifulexit polls tomorrow we'll know we begin to getthose allegations he would make against the decay heat i was talking with meon a very cooperative basis as to what he considered to be potential problemsand in the nature at that time that we were talking about the living andnurses rather than the legal crops but he did say that thiscould even get to the point of being a legal problem if itevolved into a circumstantial chain and i think he put a circumstantial chain ofevidence leading to this on as one more
question june twenty eightthe yo follow when mysongoregonin recentyearsthey seizethese of all as i understand have beendocumented as those specific events and this is not an attempt to make acomplete list at mit says such as that there were a number of others
what i would've loved one and you're my lawyers may be taken outbut the tender mercies of the television audience butalways i have been told ourpart documented incidents that took place are incidentspersily observeswell the violent demonstrations and disruption ihave substantial knowledge of because there wasa fairly extensive program of a violent demonstration the destruction duringpresident nixon's campaign got a number of campaign stopsthat one of the more notable examplesis in san francisco luncheonparents of our storytelling believe it was that you were the
violence in an activity was such that that the entire walk in which thousands ofsituation was court police arenot a police state complete seizure of men withguns and i believe that and that'snot a policeman and pouring gas passes has quite a seeing eyebeen widely reported as a movie fan and itook some movies that because it was it was sort of remarkablesituation during that time there was a considerable distanceproperty damage by demonstrators breaking windows that sortof thing in the general area of the hotel andnine i believe that was the time at one of them stabbed a policeman the other nightthere was
speakers and specifically the united states virtually everycampaign well during the campaign there was always away in organizing group of demonstrators withvery unpleasant sciencethat would try to shut down the president as hespoke to prime example about the sort of the tragedy was one that tookplace on the grounds of the statue of liberty this was not a campaign appearance of as adedication of an immigration museum on that island where this thathillary is located and there were demonstrators that situationthemselves obviously for the benefit of television right in front of the presidentbetween the president and the television cameras and then they attempted to shout him down anddid so quite effectively is ever so close to the microphones at the same microphones he was speaking into arepicking up their their shops and you might remember the newscast
about that event because a president one of the rare times that he did sodirectly referred to the demonstrators and made the point that he hoped that the television cameras wouldinclude the thousands of people that have gathered there for the ceremony who werethere for a constructive purpose instead of just focusing on a small group of people aretrying to disrupt the opening and bombing campaign headquarters i haveno personal knowledge of him that i've never been in one that was burned or bomb butthere have been a number of news reports in and i think the official investigations of those andi don't think there's any nixonheadquarters one of them in arizona believe inphoenix was burned down in one infairfax avenue is was blown up by was not in fact i think that's one where theone of the people who bought the bombing was killed in the explosion
physical damage traction at headquarters and other buildings or it's aconsiderable amount of theharassment candidate's wives and families but senate is mrs nixon and tricia juliewere subjected to such a restaurant and very crude formand a number of their public appearances as you know they travel independentcampaigning on behalf of the president's reelectionincidents have beeni understand that together and the documentaryform and this question i referred to some of thesethings at the time i met with the un committee staff the first time and i was asked that time by thestaff to provide more information than they're the generalcomments that i had to make and i indicated i would do so i requestedthat this be done and i assume that it hasn't the committee i trust spouses receive
some documentation mrmosesinternational conventions and justifiedpeople aware of the republican convention andremember the problem with a thousand delegates heading getting to the convention hall because of the slightlyless tires threats of violence to relatives thetrash fires and that these were mostly cover most of their intelligence i don't think there areevents that are are unfamiliar to the american peopleso far there's beenno investigation of his activism rule publicizingyou do you are in for support the army members
do i'm happy to hear that an american welcomebeing corrected but you also makeforsolving some investors took place with a clear knowledge and consent of engines of thelast election i understandthere's some in the documentation that the one specific that comesimmediately to mind and that is is the occasion of the area trip to losangeles to the century plaza hotel which therewas a very large demonstration staged onthe hand bills toonotify people of this demonstration is planned demonstration where at what time andthat sort of thing were handed out by william mcgovern headquarters andi understand the reform there was a phone call
so in order forthis generationthank younewspaperreportersand heneeds to do the teenagerthankyoutake the september eighteenth meeting
in this video an endand at the latterpresident has an interview to the yellowleaves your interpretation of the cajun mealpresident authorized me to testify as to myrecollection of meetings in which i was presentand it did you give your consentto take annual questionthose are not epa he specificallyauthorized me to give my recollection obviouslywe knew
anditwill be okit doesthat's righti'm asking you
to i don't know how they i represented myattorneys my concern that in preparing my statement i was obviouslyof necessity dealing with matters that coveredthat's the knowledge of which i had as a result of listening to thetapes and i asked my attorneys to ascertain for me whatrequirements i would be under in terms of the separation of powers restrictionsas to my testimony in that regardthat do havereferences to you know in some of these things at the time i raised the question i did not have them in mystatement is journalist trying to determine what to put in my statement on the other and whatnotdue mainly to a communication now
youknow specifici know i have discussed with her when i was twenty in my state and i discussed with them theonline part that this was an area in which i would have totestifyquite possiblysirwe domyunderstanding is thatthe medicaid
problem well it doesi mean as you know this isand i think those are all the civil rightsthat was the one instead they wouldn't let us todisclose these days withoutand surpriseyesterday the white house statementlike thismy dad did not know the contents of the state
money he'sbackand in racesyou'rerightyou know sir i think that that it'squite clear that because the white house had made that statement thepresident made that statement i was faced with the question as to what i was to dowith knowledge that i had when i appear year with arequirement and the desire to transcend all the knowledge that i haveas best i can and i do faced with that dilemma asked my
attorneys how to deal with that in the end the terms of what i waspermitted to testify today and what i was restricted from testifying to and inthat regard the white house's response as i understand it and as this ican't give you a legal analysis of a bit from a layman's viewpoint it wouldappear to me that the white house's response to my question as to what what i'msupposed to do was that they obviously could not restrict me fromtestifying as to acknowledge i had as a result of my having been inattendance at a meeting but they didn't place upon me the restrictions that i was nottestifying to information which it and selling from the process of listening to thetape you know useyour interrogations that those are right most of them and that was not the point iwant to really remember why
you're as mr wilson because i raise itwas ahitfbfb
This record is featured in ““Gavel-to-Gavel”: The Watergate Scandal and Public Television.”
1973 Watergate Hearings
Part 4 of 7
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Robert MacNeil and Jim Lehrer anchor gavel-to-gavel coverage of day 32 of the U.S. Senate Watergate hearings. In today's hearing, H.R. Haldeman testifies.
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Anchor: MacNeil, Robert
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Chicago: “1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-31; Part 4 of 7,” 1973-07-31, Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed May 19, 2019,
MLA: “1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-31; Part 4 of 7.” 1973-07-31. Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. May 19, 2019. <>.
APA: 1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-31; Part 4 of 7. Boston, MA: Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from