Black Journal; 15

... When the white men first came here from over the seas, he looked and said this is parts on country, he was mighty well pleased when there's land but he found, and he said I will make him my own piece of ground. How many is the battle, he still had to fight, and the man is the family who died in the night,

as many is the black man who lived all along, all of them wanting their own piece of ground. And one fine day in 1883, Lord was discovered in good quantity. Jambo, As-Salamu'alaikum brothers and sisters, I'm Lou Hals here with Bill Greaves, welcoming you to another edition of Black Journal. Tonight, Black Journal takes a long, hard look at South Africa, the problems that our people face there and the efforts they're making toward liberation. We have with us several brothers from South Africa to bring us up to date about what's happening as far as black resistance is concerned. And from the Afro-American point of view, we'll get some ideas on how the South African situation affects black people in this country. What its implications are for the United States internationally.

The film you will see tonight was made in South Africa during 1963 and 1964. Much of the footage has been smuggled out of South Africa. It is a film that can never be done again and, unfortunately, has not become dated, as the South African police state persist and it worsens. At a time when white rule has ended on most of the African continent and black African nationalism has emerged as a dominant force in a block of independent African states, the Republic of South Africa has become an isolated bastion of white nationalism, a police state based on racism. He was mighty well pleased with this land-party bomb, and he said I will make him my own piece of ground.

How many South Africa he still had to fight, and the many South African families were dying in the night, as many as the black men who lived all alone. Along before the first whites arrived, black people were spread throughout the subcontinent. There existed the flourishing societies of the Hoi Hoi, Batua, Posa, and Zulu people. Gold was discovered in good quantity. Now the country was rich and was rich other than land. And it sheathed on one telly's old piece of land. White figures were few and the gold was so deep. Black men was gold while season labor was cheap.

Of the 17 million people in South Africa, about one out of five is white. Most of the non-white are indigenous black Africans. The government refers to them as Bantu. Other non-whites include people of mixed blood called colors and a small number of Asians. Not the black men whose lay paths have to be. Cannot enjoy the fruits that above. Whites in South Africa appear to live in constant fear of the African, the so-called black danger. They fear the latent power of black unity. To avoid having to think about the danger any more than necessary, the whites rely upon the suppressive policy of apartheid, a scheme which purports to separate people of different colors in order that they will develop in theory along parallel lines in their own areas. But an actual fact, this policy means the debasement of non-white population through an endless series of laws and regulations based upon the notion that the black man, at least when his services are not required, is to be kept out of sight. African freedom of movement and employment is controlled by past laws. The African is required to carry a past book at all times.

It must be signed once every week by his boss. If he is caught without his pass, he discovers that he has broken the law and order. He can then be put in jail or fined or endorsed out. That is, sent to a so-called rural homeland he may never have seen. 700,000 arrests are made annually for past law violations, and 80,000 Africans are endorsed out. It is not just Africans who must carry identification papers, since August 1, 1966, every person, including whites, over 18 years of age in South Africa, have been required to carry occurred. At present, it is only the African who is stopped by the police and asked to produce his pass. His past book must contain particulars about every job he has had, every tax he has paid, and every x-ray he has taken. Thus, monotonous black ghettos called townships bring all the large cities of South Africa. This township is located 15 miles from downtown Johannesburg to ensure maximum separation for the white population. From here, Africans commute to jobs in the mines, industrial plants, and other employment all created for the white man's prosperity.

During the day, Africans are welcome to spend their money and work in the central section of the city, but before dark, these men must be off the streets and back in their townships. By classifying all urban Africans as temporary migrants, the government claims it is justified in depriving them of social and political rights in urban areas. The final solution of the white South African government is the relocation of all black Africans in self-governing homelands, according to a long range, separate development plan brought out in 1955. There would ultimately be seven quasi-independent black territories called Bantustans, one for each major tribe or group of tribes. The final solution would lead to a situation where black Africans live on or control 13% of the land, while the other 87% of South African land would go to the white minority.

The so-called white state is a continuous land area, which happens to contain all the large cities, the seaports, the harbors, the airfields, gold mines, coal mines, as well as the best and most fertile farmlands. The so-called Bantu homelands or Bantustans consist of 260 small and separate areas scattered throughout the country. They are rural slums, they have no cities, no industries and few sources of employment. The showcase of separate development is the trans guy, an area about a third the size of the state of Louisiana. It is the homeland of the nearly million and a half members of the host of tribe. The rights of the trans guy's citizens are limited. He may live in a white territory, if he works for the white man, and if he pays taxes. But he may have virtually no say whatsoever in the government that rules him. In the trans guy, he can vote for a legislative assembly in which 64 white appointed chiefs overrule the wishes of the 45 elected members.

The chiefs can generally be relied upon to tow the government line because they are official to the republic government, responsible to that government and not to the trans guy and citizen. Nat McCas is a young journalist who left South Africa to come to the United States in a one-way ticket. He has frequently visited the trans guy and studied its problems. The people of the trans guy did not ask for self-rule, such as has been given to them by the government. This alone is an indication that this is in fact an imposition. The government of South Africa, and this is the only government that really is in South Africa, retains the power, the authority to reject or nullify any legislation which the supposed government of the trans guy produces. None of the legislation that the trans guy and government produces from its house of assembly can become low without the approval of the government.

He is using the trans guy to placate world-feeling. His whole apartheid policy stands or falls by the success of the trans guy. The trans guy is intended to serve as an excuse for the government to do whatever it pleases with Africans who are supposedly trans guy and Africans and each time the government makes feather inroads on their rights. It will have this delightful excuse that after all they have got their country. Considering the unique importance the government attaches to the trans guy, it is doing very little to assist in its development. The Komada irrigation scheme with its impressive Dubisi dam has been internationally advertised. This scheme will assist in agricultural development but it will not supply power for industry.

Trans guy industry, the white South African version of black capitalism, is limited to a furniture factory and a few other small plants. Cheap labor is still the main export. No advances have been made towards the political or economic development of the other seven Bantu stands. Indeed, it is illegal to use white capital to develop them and the local inhabitants hardly have the resources to do it themselves. Some of the proposed Bantu stands are not even to be geographically consolidated. The Lazulu stand, for example, will consist of dozens of separate plots of land over a wide area with rich white farming land left intact between. It is now probable that the trans guy will be granted so-called full independence sometime in the next decade. And if that experiment is successful, further states will follow until a vertical commonwealth of economically dependent micro-states is created in and around white South Africa. The diamonds mark the beginning of South Africa's capital formation and industrial development.

The wealth from diamonds led to the financing, exploration and exploitation of gold mines. 90% of all South African mine workers are non-whites, but few of this majority have good jobs. Some of them work above ground on a permanent basis as personnel assistance, but the government has imposed limitations upon the numbers who may be thus employed. Underground at the mines, the highest rank an African can achieve is that of boss boy. Out of South Africa's gold mines come 70% of the free world's gold. Glittering profits are made possible by an ample supply of African workers who can do little to improve their lot. They are prohibited from striking, and if they cause trouble, can be tried and shipped out of town.

South African mining has attracted more US capital than any other industry. The high profits earned on US investments in South Africa depend upon low wages imposed by apartheid. For example, the most important profit factors in mining are the quality of the ore and the cost of the labor to extract it. South Africa's all white chamber of mines therefore simply sets the wages of black miners low enough to make profitable the mining of even low-grade ore and relatively inaccessible ore. A rough breakdown of annual wages is as follows. Whites, $3,587, colors and Asians, $636, and Africans, $213, plus board and room. The nerve center of South Africa's booming economy is the Johannesburg Stock Exchange. Here the investor may expect a good return on his money. There is no longer any poor white class in South Africa. It is one of the last countries where the get rich quick dreams can still be realized. That is if you are white.

Already US businessmen have invested more than $1 billion in South Africa and their investment there is increasing faster than any other country in the world. The largest chain of vacation hotels will shortly be none other than holiday ends. Chase Manhattan Bank and First National City Bank continue to expand steadily. A partial list of US firms with significant investment interest and subsidiaries in South Africa reads like a chamber of commerce directory, IBM, Kellogg Company, Eastman Kodak, Ford Motor Company, US rubber company, Hertz, City Service, Tampex Incorporated, General Motors, Squib, Caterpillar Company, Procter and Gambo, Firestone Tire and Rubber Company, New Mount Mining, Coca-Cola, Alice Chalmer, US Economic Policy on South Africa, Florence Numer's UN Resolutions, in November 1963, 84 members of the UN voted for a resolution which urged all states to refrain especially from the supply in any manner or form of any petroleum or petroleum products to South Africa. Only six countries voted against this resolution. The United States led the vote.

Economic pressure this type is by no means inconsistent with the US foreign policy for varying reasons. The United States presently boycotts and embargoes countries in which over a third of the world's population lives. Yet it has been unwilling to go beyond a ban on arms and ammunition to implement UN resolutions against apartheid. One reason given by the United States for refusing to put economic pressure on South Africa is that it would hurt the very Africans it was designed to help by making them even poor. But spokesman for the Black African Majorities say that outside economic pressure is the only remaining weapon short of bloodshed and are themselves the strongest advocates of a boycott of their own country. The South African government's principle of white rule faces the resolute opposition of the indigenous black African majority. African nationalism has been organized and active on a countrywide basis for over 50 years. It was the past laws which triggered the infamous Charlottesville massacre, the turning point in South African destiny.

On March 21, 1960, a crowd of unarmed Africans assembled at the police station in the town of Sharpsville near Johannesburg to demonstrate against the hated past laws. The police panicked and opened fire, 72 Africans were killed 186 wounded. After Sharpsville, instead of easing the pressures which caused the explosion, the government took the opposite course.

Sharpsville became an excuse to slap down African nationalism with all the force of legal powers and armed mind and emergency was declared and the infamous 90-day law was enacted. This law made it possible for people to be held merely on suspicion. The original 90-day detention could be renewed indefinitely without a trial. Effective police state measures have brought about temporary tranquility, at least on the surface. The 90-day law has been temporarily suspended, although it can be brought back into force at a moment's notice. The government has outlawed the two major African political parties, the ANC, African National Congress, has been in existence for over 50 years. The PAC, Pan-Africanist Congress founded in 1959, led the Sharpsville protest. Today, the leaders of both parties have been jailed, driven underground, or an exile.

The late chief Albert La Thouly is the patriarch of the Freedom Movement, a lifelong champion of non-violent protests. The Thouly's recent acceptance of the possibility of violence aligns him with the black African consensus. Violence under any circumstance is what I think to be encouraged. It's what I think to be encouraged. Now, if it comes, it's just like nation is going to war. It's an unfortunate thing if nations have to go to war. But you can never anticipate and say, now, man, I'll work for war. Nobody works for violence, nobody works for a war. But sometimes, circumstances create that, and I can't predict circumstances. They now look, well, it's all right that this happens now. But in any case, I think as human beings, we must regret that we can't solve our differences and have to resort to violence and war and so on. Raymond Canuni, who heads the London Office of the African National Congress and Exile, underscores the organization's firm position.

We are going to use all forms necessary to get our freedom inside our figure, whether it is violence against those who are violent against us, whether it is violence against the property that those who reinforce economically the government, whether it is any type of violence possible. Our aim is to get our freedom and we are prepared to get our freedom at whatever sacrifice necessary. ZB Maletti, London representative of the PAC, speaks even in more specific terms. The Saravanan situation can only be resolved through bloodshed. That is, the African people taking arms against the oppressor, the foreign oppressor in the country. As for time, I think, very soon. The head of the Pan-Africanist Congress, Robert Zabukwi, has been jailed on Robin Island, the South African Bastille.

The PAC represents the most militant of the younger generation who broke away from the African National Congress. Robert Zabuk, a president of the PAC, was arrested on the 21st of March when the massacre at Sharpville and Lunga took place. He was subsequently charged and sentenced to three years, which time of imprisonment he served. After this, his special legislation was passed through parliamentary enable the government to keep him in jail indefinitely. And in the words of the Minister of Justice Foster, when asked to release the men after saving his sentence, he said, not this one. And he continued that he'd keep him the side of eternity. Jail has also been the fate of Nelson Modella, a giant among African patriots. Modella succeeded La Thoulee as active head of the African National Congress. After Sharp'sville, he operated underground until he was caught in 1963 and tried for treason and sabotage.

His remarks addressed the court at the end of his trial and provided a credo for fellow freedom fighters. The ideological creed of the ANC is and always has been the creed of African nationalism. It is not the concept of African nationalism expressed in the cry, drive the white men into the sea. The African nationalism for which the ANC stands is the concept of freedom and fulfillment for the African people in their own land. South Africa is the richest country in Africa and could be one of the richest countries in the world. But it is a land of extremes and remarkable contrast. The whites enjoy what may well be the highest standard of living in the world while the Africans live in poverty and misery. The complaint of Africans, however, is not only that they are poor and the whites are rich, but other laws which are made by the whites are designed to preserve this situation.

Africans want to share in the whole of South Africa. They want security and a stake in society. Above all, we want equal political rights because without them our disabilities will be permanent. I know this sounds revolutionary to the whites in this country because the majority of voters will be Africans. This makes the white men fear democracy. For someone who is white, South African can be an extremely pleasant place to visit and live. Find climate, find scenery. Here in the tall, whites enjoy the good life. They condone the racist system of apartheid.

This is apartheid. It is unlawful for a white person and a non-white person to drink a cup of tea together in a tea room anywhere in South Africa, unless they have obtained a special permit to do so. No African is entitled to acquire title to land anywhere in South Africa, nor is it the intention of the present government ever to grant such right to the African. Even in his own reserves. No African, lawfully residing in a town by virtue of a permit issued to him, is entitled to have his wife and children residing with him.

Any policeman is entitled without warrant to enter and search premises in a town in which he has reason to suspect that an African youth, 18 years of age or older, is committing the criminal offense of residing with his father without having the necessary permission to do so. Any person who is, in the opinion of the Minister of Justice, capable of supplying information of subversive activities may be detained in solitary confinement for a period of 90 days, and for an unlimited number of 90 day periods thereafter. No court of law has the right of any circumstance to order the release of such persons. If an African sits on a bench in a public park, the bench being set apart for the exclusive use of white persons, he commits a criminal offense. South African government's basic tactic in attacking black African leaders has been to equate African nationalism with communism.

Africans, including La Thouly, have bitterly rejected this claim. If you said to say that I'm a communist, that one must say this, be one of the leaders in the Liberation Movement. We don't discriminate against people because of their own political outlook or of certain leanings. We don't say that this many the right is, this one is the socialist, this one is the communist, we don't want in the Liberation Movement because we have one common purpose and that is freedom. In reacting to the communist issue, journalist Nat Nakasa indicates the real and present danger relating to the Cold War to race war. It is true, however, that all the troubles that the Africans have seen in South Africa have not come from communism. They have come from a country which professes to be living by standards of Christian, Western civilization. Most Africans die without ever hearing about communism.

All they hear about is the standards of Western Christian civilization. From whichever clue that is well known right around the world, a lot of troubles, a lot of unpleasantnesses, which are South African, South African Africans have suffered. There also does mean that those who lead movements in South Africa know that they are unlikely to get assistance from the Christian Western civilized world. Therefore, they seek assistance from elsewhere. Within South Africa, there have been reports of explosions and acts of sabotage at post offices and police stations. These incidents are believed to be the acts of organized groups. Because of the tight security maintained by the South African government, it is difficult to get information about what's really happening inside the country. And most reports are obtained from those few who manage to escape or exile from the country for political activity. To get more of the black viewpoint about how the brothers are taking care of business in South Africa and what the implications are, we invited three South African exiles to discuss with two Afro-Americans what it all means.

The group consists of Professor Charles Hamilton, co-author with Stoke Lee Carmichael, the book Black Power, Politics of Liberation, and currently a professor of political science at Columbia University. Peter Malatzi, the representative of the Pan-African Congress in this country. Willie Kositili, noted South African writer and poet, Leiden Jackson, economic analyst on South Africa for the American Committee on Africa, and Hagie Ginghab, an exile from Southwest Africa, and the representative in the U.S. for Swapo and the Southwest African People's Organization. That's what the colonizer calls it. Africans call it Namimia. I didn't want to move to this point right away, but let's do it and make the discussion that much more comfortable perhaps. You mentioned awareness in this country.

I think that we can talk now about the role that this country is playing in South Africa economically, particularly. And I think that once we get all that out, then it would be possible to talk in terms of particular specific kinds of action that we see as feasible to deal with this situation. Why don't you talk just briefly about what you are aware of, Leiden, in terms of the intense role of this country in the economics of South Africa? Yeah, it's extremely important. The United States, and you have to view South Africa as a part of Africa as a whole to also get a real indication of what the United States role in South Africa is doing. There are two ways that they deal with South Africa. One is governmental. The other is through corporate interests. Now, all of these people claim that they are neutral in the South African situation, but the case doesn't bear out. The United States finance in Africa is about $2 billion of that $2 billion of billion is in South Africa. Now, Africa is a vast continent, as you all know.

For a billion dollars invested, just under a billion actually, in South Africa, and they have it invested in key areas that is South Africa being aware of the moral condemnation of the world, and they struggle to make itself self-sufficient, so it wouldn't have to depend on anyone for anything. The United States government has helped them to do just that. Automobiles, General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Willys are in, oil is in in a big way. Oil is the one thing that South Africa really needs, and it's SO, Shell, Caltech, Chevron. These are the people that have gone in and developed South Africa so that now it is. They just struck what looks to be rich oil wells or, sure, American companies for South Africa. The point that I'm trying to drive at is that, with this billion dollar investment, the United States has committed itself to the support of the White Races South African regime. The United States government has a tracking station, a space tracking station in South Africa. They have given South Africa a sugar quota where South Africa on many occasions has to buy sugar from independent African countries to sell in the United States to fulfill the quota.

The quota, by the way, pays premium prices at a higher than the regular world prices. The point is that they buy the sugar from poor independent black states, sell it to the United States at premium prices. I think that we should not be naive to think that these policies are going to change through some process of self-enlightenment. And I think that any black Americans who have such notions are just being naive about it. I might also add that my view is that the whole African problem in terms of US foreign policy is not to be separated from, as far as I'm concerned. The position of black Americans in this country, it's very clear to me, and I like your reaction, any of you, that you're not, eight people will not gain the level of respect and power until their worldwide interests are recognized.

I think it's very clear that there are groups lobbying in this country for other countries, countries of their heritage and so forth. So black Americans who feel that this is not a problem for them primarily, I think are not being aware politically. Well, in the past, actually, when African citizens were coming to this country, what was happening is that they were met by their White House mother or father. They can do the White area kept there, and they were never meeting with black people here. Now, I think that situation is changing now. Some of us, when we came here, said we can find our own friends. So this communication is now starting, and we are really working very hard to create this communication. And we hope, as our black brothers can cooperate in this, so that we can not talk again through intermediaries, but to deal directly.

When you see these things in a certain perspective, it's just amazing. The United States government has followed a policy of allowing refugees, political refugees, to come into the United States. Citizenship is granted almost immediately. In many cases, money is provided to get started and get them started in business to see that their children attend college. This policy applies everywhere, but with refugees from South Africa, or any of the other areas in southern Africa that are undergoing liberation wars. A refugee in exile, who clearly shows that the South African government will murder him, not shoot him, but torture him to death, which is proven factual evidence, presented in front of many international tribunals, that the South African government tortures to death, political leaders. Here comes the South African, black, showing that he is, in fact, an exile and cannot go home. And he is made to report to the State Department every 90 days in some cases. He is constantly forced to renew his visa. He never knows if he's going to be asked to leave the country. And if he leaves the country, he has nowhere to go as a rule.

So that the situation, if you are a Hungarian refugee, or a Czechoslovakian refugee, or a Cuban refugee, or any kind of refugee, which is on their side of the ledger, then you are admitted to the United States, given citizenship, provided for in ways that some of us who are citizens are not even provided. Yeah, I think it's important also indicate how this country defines refugee. Also, I think it would be just very interesting to point out the institutionally racist nature of many of the policies of this society. It was pointed out earlier in our pre-discussion about the definition of a refugee. You might have something to add to this. Yeah, we tried to approach State Department and find out about some of the brothers who even came here and finished their degrees, and they cannot even get jobs and so on. So we asked for this, and then we were told that we don't, South Africans will not qualify here as refugees, because refugees mean somebody who ran away from communist countries, or from Middle Eastern crisis,

or from national calamity, those three categories are regarded here as refugees. Now, South and African do not fall under that category. So the fact that they can prove that the South African government is going to murder them, unfortunately, that's not a good idea. It's not considered a calamity or anything of that nature, right? Yeah, because of what is involved in terms of the expansion you might see of European and American imperialism, their interests, the pure material interests, the measures that the whites in South Africa take in relation to the black population, to see to it, that the white wealth, that white profits within the country are not threatened. And that they do not intend, there is no possible way of even slightly seeing them as intending to change that situation in other ways,

the relations of who is getting all the material wealth, so that the only way to change the situation is for us in South Africa to violently break that slave master relationship. At one time I take it then that what you're suggesting is that at one point, there was a rather wide view that relief, remedies, reform measures could come from the international scene through the UN, through Commonwealth of nations and so forth, but not now. What would you conceive to be in terms of this new thinking about the arms struggle, the feasibility of it? How would you assess either of you or any of you, the feasibility of it at this point in terms of what you find and know about with organized groups in liberation groups in South Africa? Well, we, of course, as an organization, take the position exactly that our fate is simply limited. We have no choice in this matter, so we do have to launch an arms struggle because it is the only way out.

But how do we see it now? Surely there are certain things that I cannot disclose in a conversation of this type, but I can briefly indicate what is fairly well known and irrefutable. I only see the feasibility of an arms struggle really based on our state of readiness, how organized we are. And my knowledge has been that organization is difficult along these lines, but we have made a start. And in this respect, I speak for the entire liberator movement in South Africa and this cuts across party political affiliations. So I see it as a protracted struggle in the sense that the oppressive regime itself will be counteracting us and we ourselves are not expecting an easy way out of this situation, but we just have no choice to go on in this matter.

I think eventually the struggle will be successful. Only thing we could ask maybe the outside world to do is to live as alone to fight because if we are going to tackle South Africa, we are going to be successful if South Africa doesn't get help from her friends in the Western world. Now this is maybe where we have to warn our black brothers here not to make the same mistake they made in Vietnam that the United States shouldn't come and tell them that they are fighting communist in South Africa. Therefore they should send the army and fight against the communists. And of course what they will refer to that time as communist would be the black nationalist. So therefore it would be a good message to the black brothers to know when that time comes that actually people who are fighting are black Africans against the oppressors in the national imperialism. I must say that we of course expect this type of solidarity from the black people in this country for historic reasons, for obvious historic reasons.

And also because we visualize ourselves not only as fighting for territorial independence but we really are fighting for the total liberation of the continent. And also we firmly believe that if we succeed all people of color everywhere, people of African descent, they have won the Afrodom if we really do it. Now because of the complexity of the situation and because of the varied nature of the type of enemy we are facing, you know we are facing the South African regime on the face of it. But as a matter of fact we are facing the entire network, the NATO complex. So that in the light of the very size of the enemy we are facing and the sophisticated nature of its weapons and its ramifications we are really entitled to support of the black brothers in this country particularly. And of the American people in general. Let's be additionally candid here and talk about when you use the word we let's just talk about this for a second.

What is the state of what we might call what has been called pan-Africanism now as opposed to what we might call factionalism? I hadn't even said that to say we also stand out for the total freedom of the continent that does mean that we accept pan-Africanism as the key. But as a matter of fact and in practice we as organizations in exile have had our own problems which indicated to us that pan-Africanism has begun to suffer some at certain areas and levels, some slow downs. This has happened. For one thing we operate within the territory of the OAU, the organization of African unity. Now this is fairly well known that we have not been in a position as movements to get all what we need, something like the tools.

And we have been told by the leaders of the OAU itself that some African states have not honored the applications in this respect. Now this has resulted of course in difficulties on our part because if the leadership of any given organization is unable to deliver the goods to its following then of course the energy is turned inward. The followers begin to eat the leaders, they begin to devour them and the leaders begin to crack down because of no multiplying frustrations. So this does also result in splits and splinter groups so that the solidity of the movement that set out originally to achieve certain things is affected by this weakening of the pan-African front. It does happen. This is our problem.

The thing is very clear that we have a lot of examples in this country about how different groups push interests of other countries, particularly the American Jews, how they support morally, financially and otherwise the battles of Israel in the Middle East. But that's the point. It's not just a cultural struggle. The cultural part is important for us as Afro-Americans but it's the political, economic part that's the key, the development of Africa for instance. You guys can use certain kind to support that the average Afro-American could get across to you. What for instance could you use most from the Black community? In the Black community in this country, we cannot overemphasize the need by our people and organizations in exile for clothing, for medicines. What do you have to do with clothing? We have people in Africa. We have people who are in exile, who are away from South Africa and these people do need clothing because as revolutionists, they have to as far as possible. They appear like ordinary people and besides, also in Africa, it does become cold so people do need clothing.

But what about the guy who doesn't want to send clothes but who might want to send a gun? Fine. This will need. How does he send it? I mean, I know we can get into that but it seems to me that this is what I would be interested in and that's why I'm involved in Africa. What does the average guy do besides clothing for instance? I have repeatedly said that not only is it clothing but it also money. We need money to acquire these things. I think it would be upset on our part to say the men must give us money. I think what we need is money because we know where to get the gun. The gun is not a problem. What is a problem is the money to use in securing this type of thing or assistance. So what we really have then is what's needed is medicine, money, clothing, I'm sure books, books can be used. But in addition we have to get off the cultural kick to some degree and we've got to say that what we need correct me now if I'm wrong. What we really need is a political awareness in addition to a cultural awakening about what's happening.

I mean many black brothers and sisters will say man Congress don't deal with it and they don't we don't. You brothers know that but the point is in terms of you guys if we had a lobby in Washington. Are you an agreement that a lobby by black people in Washington would mean anything? I'm very skeptical about that. Why? First of all because the people in Washington have in their hearts the interests of whites in South Africa. Had that been changed will it? I think it can be changed by armed struggle. I don't think anymore. What happened to the country in this country? I doubt it very much. I think what it would finally amount to might be if it is comfortable for those congressmen to deal with whatever it is to some degree they would do it. I have a different view on this. I know what it is. I want to express this quite open.

It may not be immediately beneficial for the local people for our brothers in this country to use Congress. For instance we do desire a lobby there. That's not Willis Point. Willis Point is that we are going to have to, unless it's comfortable for them. Sure, we recognize that if Congress is going to do something that would be useful for you and fine but he says they're not going to do it. We will now. I have to look for the congressman. Yeah, stay for university crisis here. When people are going, students are going and begging and asking to do this and they didn't act. I'm listening and saying, yes, we are going to do it. But we don't, of course, say that they should be just a matter of taking a pass level and just going every day and repeating. For instance, South African mission is here. There are many places, even you and could be disruptive sometimes if it was come to worse. Because we want blacks to be so mobilized that when we can call on their aid and we will be very soon ready.

As long as South Africa occupies my country, I may organize them to even occupy their buildings here until they leave. That's kind of help we will need. Let me ask you something else. I'm sure every brother who is interested. What about the guy who wants to come and fight with you now? You know, I speak to you about many brothers who come to me and say that they want to go and fight. What about that guy? What does he do? That's an aid. That's an offer of aid. What do you do with him? Well, he has to come through our organizational structure because this does create problems. If people just go into Africa, in the belief that because they are black, they'll just be accepted. This is erroneous. Because in Africa, people are security conscious. In matters of security, we have had black people being used. But you're saying that the PAC will take American blacks. Is that what you're saying? Through our propaganda. I would say yes, but black brothers have to come and fight after I have first gone. After all the immigrants have first died. As long as I'm still sitting here and talking, I wouldn't like any brother to go and fight there, my striker.

But I have to first go and die myself. Of course, this time we'll come when we're going to help. Ask for help from outside. Our brothers will be the first one we'll call up on. We're running out of time, and I think that there is much more to say on this subject. But we're very pleased that you came to Black Journal tonight. Thank you very much. All of you. I still think that the analogy of southern Africa becoming another Vietnam, as you were pointing out, professor, the need for blacks to be aware and not get caught up in the trap. One of the strongest points that we might gain from a discussion of this sort is that although there is a geographical distance between blacks and South Africa and Afro-Americans, the problems that face black people everywhere in most of Western civilization are essentially the same. We are a colonized people, oppressed by racist institutions created by whites. In both groups, whether here or in South Africa, black people are struggling toward liberation. Most discussions like this are taking place, and the bonds between us are growing stronger and stronger.

In both groups, black people are struggling toward liberation, and the black people are struggling toward liberation.

In both groups, black people are struggling toward liberation, and the black people are struggling toward liberation. In both groups, black people are struggling toward liberation, and the black people are struggling toward liberation.

In both groups, black people are struggling toward liberation. In both groups, black people are struggling toward liberation, and the black people are struggling toward liberation. An animated film using the photographs of Ernest Cole, powerful brothers and sisters, powerful. The following item by this time is not a news flash. White South African doctor, Philip Blyberg, the longest living, hard transplant patient died on Saturday, August 16th, is death occurred 18 months after the transplant operation. We'd like the black community to remember that for those 18 months, Dr. Blyberg's body functioned through the heart of a Cape Town colored, in other words, a black man. South Africa strikes again. Can you dig that, baby? Before we sign off, Lou, the National Association of Television and Radio Announces has awarded Black Journal this trophy for outstanding work in the field of television programming.

Your cards and letters help to make this possible, ladies and gentlemen, and we appreciate the continuing support the association is giving us. Awards help, and we do appreciate them, but it's also correspondence that helps to keep us on the air. We still need your support, so send your letters and cards into Black Journal, any team, 10 Columbus Circle, New York, 1019. Well, that said, brothers and sisters, another edition of Black Journal. We'll be back next month. In the meantime, I'm Lou House, it really agrees. One case of gay, y'all. We'll be back next month.

We'll be back next month. We'll be back next month. We'll be back next month. This is NET, the public television network.

We'll be back next month.