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it'sbigeleven testified that it was just thedean's testimony on already mr starrover the anchor hugh herrinstructed and these things are dropping briefcase in orderthat he went to see in this building and reported that feeling that that was ahuge concern about people and actuallyannounce that as givensthat positionwhat wasappealing a questionconcerning the conversation inevitably it was i would say was one
of the ones that i'm afraid i can't really important much more thanthat and the conversations that we have john indicated that there's a lot ofconcern about this material i would'vesaid this is not a quote that it would be unfortunate itself of some of the stuffnow or is revealed to the press on the same token youknow even though i was related to thefighting in the context of that conversation most of thenight this was in the context of theconversation i was in thebuildingnow i knowthat feeling
mr betts says it's perfectly sellingto suggest that i would go to the elaborate lengths that i didin making sure that the secret service and try and thetsa and somebody from bean sauce was present at the opening of a say and then i wouldgive instructions for taking custody of the conflict and then make asuggestion why i think you have to give me credit forunderstanding the importance of evidence in a case of this kind and i didn'tunderstand that and on the nineteen named arthur that that evidencewas preserved in a way that if there were subsequent trial evidence that the event of fireand and placed in either the tvshow that it would beinadvisable wanted to us why didn't you ask mr colson mr carlisle mr clawsonwho were also at the meeting who it was that was that was a process but
with the integrity of that evidence would be preserved and then perhaps you get some in panamams dickinsonand you've got todo a transcript of theboston which you to return of the violence needed to usthe debate on this they don't mindwhat they do have a full seventeen orseventeen doesn't your articles onnowsome reason they exercisethey get from your top youknow i mean i
believe that short forward for ournothis is the questionand thisisan interestingmusicthe website's in mind that meeting as evidenceare looking for or what their lifeand his musici don't know
isn't itnowgone or even are alike good message out anything like that eitherone of those things that that would be given to myrecollection they didn't live update in mymindtoday the other differencei would think so i would think so butalso and that's one thatinvolve eightsee
what he's doing isrightthat's a very dramatic eventididn't do anythingnow whywas nineteen ninetynine whywere you atthe nsa on and youknow the target well thiswas the this was the version which was reported that the pope as having
taken place at this meeting i'm fifteen sixteen by mr peterson who in turnwas reporting robin was alleging that the us attorneys the president confronted militantsand as well as it's supposed to happen and he said well what they tell me is that it happened atthis at this meeting were you almost just can't miss say that all us persons so that'swhy i focused on that meeting as the as the time of the alleged this was supposed tohappen but that's the best information i had at the time but that'snotreally when the planning you're telling methat the business online versions of the story is that i don't think you canassume that anyone would be more reasonable many other i appreciate youryour situation the city must have been in on the committee but ithink you have to recognize that there are many many versions of this story that it before theun prosecutor and all in the interest of them in the midst of
the fight that whatever it is that the evidence that was openand then i'mhere and thereforethey have no except that version that this time out the thing thatisis said the midst of this was you get mr clawson i'm asking what wasthat head the contents of this say about with so what lessons and witha procedure to guarantee the integrity of the evidence in that statement i think about itthat i was the one who insisted upon that procedure comedian and iti got into medicineyour conversation
of april seventeen conversationthe conversationand i don't know mr nationalists were interested inyour assertions theassertions not in search of reading nowyou saythe subject of one thinga lot of seller'scellar or something coming out this morning eventhought i noticed something comingit's morning edition
with hisfamilyi knowyeahit iswe do
idonowi really amthank youmr johnson yeahi know thesepeopleright right
ninawelli know you want tofigure outoh i was it was alot of likefollow a candidateyet another but that wasitdo
you know why you'rehereirony ironyhe'll spend just a mobchairman of mine mine actually before electric here but this iskelly audience and although president is entirely serious about maintainingdecorum and this character it is inappropriate for the audience to respond inany way to the statements made by the wetness by counselor anything else on the express explicit instructions the chairmanwas in the audience that may well not preventdemonstrations i'm
robert siegeland we used the meeting withlast year mississippi division of the rublealso concerning again and i was in his office and wantthat lawwe're calling itwell i'm satisfied mr golson waspresident i have an onslaught system that lost people in and out of mydoor and i'm in actuality basis of speechlong timeso it would be for
summer but i think it may be a practical certainty that he was there in fact i was muchmore interested in whether or not he had any recollection of such a conversation and i think they'retwo important things in a conversation that you kind ofscapegoat one was the fact that this could be triedthis story of the polls which goes to my answer tosenator bernie the other day that at a point in time around it'ssecond third week in a poem of being was very busily engaged in planningstories here and there as he accepted the plant this story with me that that i supposedly orderedhim to have a cup second thing is on the matter of immunityi had been consistently taking their positions sincethe twenty second a market that no one in the white house should seecommunity in in any thoughts or and it was extremely inimicalto the interests of the president and the white house for someone in the
white house staff to in anyway seek to be excusedfor his actions under any circumstances and my efforts and ishare that i should have said this in response to senator burns question few minutes ago with respectto what we were talking about her at day's aprilfifteen to thirty one of the things that we were talking about was alsothat might be involved in any one in the white house seeking to beimmunized from the consequences of his act as an inducement to test and i feltstrongly than they like continuing to feel strongly that that wasgoing on one ofthe questions on the new is it truethat you somehow oreven an ex presidents and you know the legal communityprior to april court well i
recall we got quieter calling mr klein least on abouttwenty eight march an inquiring about proceduresin securing emily and then at some point in time iconveyed to him the president'swell no one in the white house should be extendedi can certainly not the president's position but you personally suggeststhat as opposed to appoint a new questionbecause i was strongly stating that point you could possibly through this very tough and did you because of thatand the revelation of the president's statement was seventeen and whichnobody white house that will befineit would be great
and it's the first time in europeanintegrationnowi knowyoui think your testimonyi'mleaving the areasat that i did you when you made those activities asgossip with them as patients imagine the great
hallyou're rightactivitiesinvolving the lyric out on thefirst was that it was reported some ofyou mr mitchell up on this special investigation brett laceywe get in that and a promise not just for seats in that questioni discuss the so called commerce activities andmr libby with mr mitchell would be quite different than the firsttime i heard of or discuss these other thing iswell i had a notch or the questionis at what i wanna testify to an answer to the question was that
the existence of a special unit and its functions upsets thepresident conceded and charter which he did grove and twenty fourth of julywas discussed with several agency heads and cavanaugh says almost immediately thereafteri don't think i was asked the questionellsberg regime as such mr mack idon't recall ever doing so well the question that the missilesthat money not the event of the plumbersnone of these operations involvingcable and the other chainsand these are the first line of that political whitehouse far onjune twenty four hour all the next day on june twenty second youmet with mr mcgregor of the socialist image of mime and then he had asecond meeting with mr michel laberge we finally when asked about that meeting or if i
was a phone call and julie and the question of what it was becauseof that meetingmr mcbridewhat he made in a new report about a possible white house wasabout to need a little protective actuallyi mean i can recall specific atreason that mr mitchell palmer i call him a get together now i'm forty five andi can say this now with with reassurancesi never knew that we know that there was just five can heargordon liddy had had some are in the lead and ijust never heard that from anyone nor had i heard about this this cableuntil it was either or discussed in the press as a lead for mirrors
that corals in the end the testimony here wanna be acontemporaneous with all of that aside i was not aware of either of those eventsno sirand even backto the tableandservices well parksdatabase east to work for mr programmer me and especially in and around the point ofseptember and i don't know the dates of those events that my hunch is that theywere later and then i would just respected and i i don't knowwell i can tell you that my own now will be ripple land when you were
counting on the nineteen fifties a time when we nowknow did not affect them and it but i don't think we did six i think there was a lot ofconfusion and i think it's going to go back in and checks rightnowdespite your time mr and yet so many things to do thecentral and your focus you do seem to have beenbusy on what it matters since on the next day in quiteuseful in the war on alevel that testimony the car with me with thecivil wars and thequestion of whether the cia involvementwhat was that like the back of a preamble to
request because any answer that i might get my teen to adopt its assumptionsthere isn't any disputeindians that in the twelve days before i leftwatson went to california and i had a number of meetings with regard towatergate with mr dean and on this occasion withwith intention of the country but if you look at my longand you look at the other letters you'll see that once the twentysixth of june came and i left that they say that twenty ninegame and i like that that might frequency so they droppedall actively desert so i would walk to be the little leagueinto question given by the false impression that youknow alsoand the reason that i was having
now once weonce we get to this town's water again i think youknow the that meeting was convened by the players because there is concernhere about the jeopardy of the cia's integrity seatedsecrecy of its operations and he wanted to be absolutely sure thatthere's all out fbi investigation to go forward without jeopardizing massacresohoh with thefbi well iget a chance to ask you about that cia letter of life
sex and why it was that it was not then for another six daysuntil a cia gave birth to the fbi that there was no ciaexpose all you know the reason for that istheir testimonybut based onyour direction on the patio andusing the israelis is justone euroand that's going to be onlinemaybe energyand resources but we're not sureand he was
rightherewe arewhat is thisdevicemr pollack nicejust the time senator bakerspoke i was in the process of pointing out the counsel that you have to eat every subjecthere one is direct cia involvement right and the otheris possible and rowing cia activities which might bedisclosed by a vigorous fbi investigation now i think
it would be very funny director halmcrae discuss the previous day what was we discussed at this meetingat how things now about this meeting and what it was that there was no talkabout race tomorrow thank youwe're into hip hopit is aneed welltoday's break for food business owners and council which
is the glue or tempers of their public television coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continueafter a pause for a station identification on average coverage of these hearings isprovided as a public service of the member stations of pbs a publicbroadcasting servicefb thethe
that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaignactivities you again correspondent jim lehrer as thehearing more questions about john ehrlichman contactthe popehas been who hasbeen ifbusinesses byyou you
said that the meetingwas going to be talking today and that we hadindicated to general dollars that mr dean would be contacts from that pointfour and the general theycall you whenever youspeak to fifteenhe either happen that way or i told him at the time and themeeting on the twenty thirteen with his contact one of the other right eyeand whites sure that i indicated our waters the deal with the white house aman who was looking after their skills and were youaware of the fact that the general or on june june twenty sixteen
now iunderstand that we're in it i was not aware of that series of meetings until this recentreports you know in thenow on july eightyou recall at thatmeeting not specific wayi surmise that one of them was simply aninformational meeting knowing that i was about to leave town for anextended period of time as i recall there was aconversation and whether it was by meeting for or what it was like oh ican't recall but on the same day that we met with that day and later we had aconversation about turning over the contents of unsafe just bury
it than you do i'mfinei don'tknow you know iknowjust a finalquestionyou're rightyes
and your answer was that was in aprilof this year presidentrep cleaver they go about empathy yeahi was in the president's deal b oand you know whydo you askso i called that time of the liver of thefifth grade in the subject of this conversationbetween the attorney general and the president and that mr dean toldabout that may be deliberate mr graysaid whoa whoa whoawhoa and he said well if he says that i will
deny itobviouslyi've destroyedandherevery clearthat if you tell the truth about thatnow isn't it true that that was not thenext time that you had a conversation with ityou
again you your irani think you're referring to theybe a rather old white reference and mr grace fallreportedly bought his confirmation hearing perhaps that's why wediscussed it and i'm in a much less specific way interms of what he was testifying to in the confirmation hearings about whether he delivered all thatthe documents that the fbithe conversationonto the people that you havewhat in the conversations i just read
itand i'm not given an inch and you know those areas and i think youknow john was the simple right now and be very careful about what he saysthat's the absolute loser are you know the law that hedelivered everything he had been at the er and don't make any distinction betweenwhat that he delivered everything in the eye and to say rightabsolutely youknowall right you know i'm doing
just thatso before imade any statement that was madeyou do not doing well mr grey you did when you weregoing back to that just happened that dayi was there and i saw there was an interviewwhy why whywellthe big conversation with great as i read afew days ago was racing teammate i'msaying that the fbi can't always done which is which is true but i'm not making any nicedistinction about the fact that we came in in two parts now i
suppose that from a mindset standpoint there was therethat he had some other problem with it is that and i didn't i didn't pick up and ididn't understand what he was concerned about so i talk about whatthat was all about was simply mr gray sayingand it certainly was tovolunteer anything that in any way would disrupt that testimony with the interval arerejected the fact that in fact that the media two parcelsincentive in one part and then you really think about identifiedbecause you've called this begin shortly afterwards and maybe fall according to the transcriptand the conversation as is follow the news todayyou know i just haven'tthe widget are
correct they've all really and hesays that makes your the old on the big these days very veryvery honest story and delivered every document the fbi it doesn't startmaking nice things in between at and let the you know the little wary of ajob was just doesn't want there to be any question he says he's hanging very firmand there's a lot of problemsnowwhat ray ohthat you were to be the busy somethingpersonally as he was trying to emulate or later in a discussion whenyou're going to the president's office you think almost everyindividual must be i knew that cell to carry that message was tobeing the family minister gray once mr david you're just
anti i make no distinction between fbi agents and directors that all went to thefbi and therefore were you in fact or dissipating and to covernot that situation in which it was given that record which later would destroythat so as far as i was concerned there was that it wasperfectly happily knowing about delivering these documents to the fbiand any concern that lead that you know the field officer the lowerechelons of the fbi were leaking this stuff all that would mention the director was it was aperfectly appropriate that i don't know where the cover up and that idon't apologize for it or why i was invited toparticipate in the call from the president's office was a quite another night and this was thiswas a very suggestive minnie i never got up and all i had ever doneit i just when the decision is really saying something terrible
is saying let's not make that distinction and let's make it clear that when thefbi so that no one ever think about how i don't think you can read a lot ofus didn't see anything theredorothybut because i have welcomed if he had testified he cameinto puzzles and i have one i have one has nothing to do withwatergate that i'm holding is one person that they will zero in on that as a serbian anotheraspect of this thing at that open it up and get politically embarrassing documents andexploited us well i hope so andthat was the whole idea of delivering it in two parts and so you're going outand
cover up up with delivering to mr gray separate sense of the politicallegwork there was no no intent here doit anywaywhile isinvitation only i've been with him in the story that you never get the documents in the firstplace against a background of this having destroyed and aftera hug before i don't well i got to just make this is clearestpossible and i'm not really is andwhether that in oregonthere's the gray had no i did not it did not come inso far as i know that was discovered in this phone
conversations great first time i heard testimony here to the effect that i knew backin january or some time that these documents have been distraught and others that is totallyincorrect and had i known anything about thedestruction of american snack at that time i dare say that my recommendation tovarious degrees nominationthere's no questionand if you did in fact carried out at therequest of the messaging that were such a waythat they shouldn't make a distinction between fbi agents and directors andjustices have indicated to keep frombeing asked what lee gurleynow on july twenty fifth you get the well you have madeand by that time by the
time already ok i take itnowmr deane come to you and say that he wanted todo well and one answer this question in anyway that might seem to a doubling the preamble to just livei have i testified a couple of times about the conversation and actuallyhave witnessed the end this connection very simply a fireball was a phonecaller made out of one of these information meetings he said iwish you'd back me up john mitchell feels very stronglydefense fund raisingnow that allow it allowed to come back at least thecomeback and then allow anybody to do anything
that was enough to make to commission anybody to do anythingand those are un toll that's onecomeback by that i never used to chant their interview that you wrestled a lot going tocome back and i think that testimony is that in order to protect us to come back from being imposed uponthat you would so to get it done is original art and they can come anddo other thoughts on racing without getting any approval to youmr fisherso many things wrong what what actually happened is a biginvestment couple times is that whenthe april seventh campaign financing law doesn't wascoming into effect the comet let us know or let me knowthat that he didn't want to do any more farmers in the campaignwere stands was pressing in bar to help him very tough job or
wanting to be relieved that that anyone would be some other kinds of shorts and againby more interesting and so we agreed that if eitherinstrumental or four by then i think it was a seamless was instrumentalstill in an amnesty stands approached her with her good newsthe volunteers excuse he was workingfor us and we were backing them with their estimate myquestion was that i said that you knowi think that when no way of questioning your questions to datewith thanks a lotnowyou know on how much money we women would be a law no you
know if you think you knowdirect no no no youknow we're speaking now i'm in my conversation that they would haveif you were you know at the timeor were among theioc until i'm an observer sincei think the public record well i tried to i can't really getinto itagain did you have a special purpose two fifthand the thought of having perversejour scott we are here saying they're involved inhonor of activity and they are now being involved
here were you concerned that unless they werefilthy they might well now as irecall may be a context in which this was discussedwas primarily a cubanemigre stimulated defense fund which john beentold about that was being created in florida and will be the vehicle for that soand so if anything my focus would have been on those criticisms innocent that particularconversation and one of my moneyso there's no question this at all it wassomething that that was just left over less thanhuman thank you as a time of his mind would beon the city that it just was not a question that i've asked myself and one where theother you are really weird it was that kind of thing
thepiecesbut no rightnowyou get the onepoint six nine others at the meetingmr with combat have testified here and hetestified that because of a clandestine manner in which he was beingasked to have this miners were you really became concernedand that he really wanted to check on this to be his apartmenthis testimony was dramaticconfrontation with you which to my eyes
an hour later or whichspoke today spoke about that meeting is that still your testimonyhas to come back to that did not come to you and expressthanks renee i wanted to ask youwould you respect question was twenty one a point thatit has to come back and youand as he expressesit is continuing and raising thismoneythere's i have no recollection of any conversation with mr
cromartie and on this day or on the fourteenth when we met and i believe discuss the scienceof in which he asked me to vote for the propriety of what he wasdoing as i explained before to senator mccain i would be veryvery slow to assure her company proprietorof any undertaking analysts i myself was satisfied either because herb isthe last poll in the world i would want you involved in something that was improperso i just don't recall that happening and i doubt very seriously that neverdid happen in those kinds of terms your previousquestion can add something in it about john dean's of warthat's the reason i wanted to repeat the question i'm notaware anypossible question of
john green's authority to ask mr camargo to do soas as being an issue between us at any time it doesn't makesense it doesn't it's not relatedto awkward part for relationship in any wayfor someone to come in is it is not john dean have already asked me to dothis it's out of whack with what was our realrelationship which was a republican when he wanted to do but thatif we want an excuse we'd be his excuse not to vote andit is to develop the grievances and he waswell mama rose city is starting back in gentlemen here we're talkingabout the third week in july and he's been doing this all thistime that is more character is it seems to me apart relationship which was that hewas a free agent could do anything you wanted but it was looking for an excuse we've
is excuse not to obesity specialist visits the john be anauthority is what really got meand because of that he had come here tocheck on the farm that when most of the news that ask them to do something oryou that he felt that people saw at the white house that was like coming from the presidentand that he would follow these instructions because he wanted to be of serviceor the prime minister that our relationshipwith her drama was never one of the principal an agent orrecently issued instructions to him when we wanted him to helpit was also very much on the peer relationshipwhere if there were a project we're it's been having and how one kind or another big legalwork or anything else we requested and he didn't feel comfortable with that or he
hadn't had this relationship in the office as iraqis or he justdidn't like the sound of that he felt very free to say no thank youand this business of marching orders from the white housejust doesn't ring true i refer you to your telephoneconversation with his to come back on april nineteen nineteen seventy threeand as you look at the page for page forthat i'll agree withyoubut i think the point at which i will make in the futuregiven the chance that you are not under our control any sort of slavery sensebut that we agree that you would not be able to combatand through that i only on whether
and you know on the record and this is something that you know potentially important andthat you were assured that will get the proper i would take it onthat and you about the presidentand you're like yeah well i think we arerelying entirely on the i meannonoreally us whoreally you know i mean are they still going they were usually arenow you've got to find one that it was not ourit didn't act and to do that the question of propriety nevercame out right here that the comeback talking to you and yours buthe's stating that i actually on order and you know on the record and this is
something that you felt sufficiently important and that you're looking at aproper i would think about going now at that pointthat the propriety issue you based on the you know independent judgmentand knew that bob hola make an independent judgment i take it that'swhere the testimony that we're hearingand itis reminding that he acted on orderswhat i remind him your money back to your money thatyou rely on winning iowa are reminding him is thatyou were notit
didn't taste likenowso muchrobertyes it was important to do it and that it was it was that's the cypriotand that if they didn't do it that way it might have inmy recollection before he testifies to sign this is notnow in august nineteen seventy twoit'sbeen it'sbeen
This record is featured in ““Gavel-to-Gavel”: The Watergate Scandal and Public Television.”
1973 Watergate Hearings
Part 3 of 6
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Robert MacNeil and Jim Lehrer anchor gavel-to-gavel coverage of day 31 of the U.S. Senate Watergate hearings. In today's hearing, John Ehrlichman and H.R. Haldeman testify. Note: Only reels 1-5 of 6 exist.
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Anchor: MacNeil, Robert
Anchor: Lehrer, James
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Chicago: “1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-30; Part 3 of 6,” 1973-07-30, Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed May 19, 2019,
MLA: “1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-30; Part 3 of 6.” 1973-07-30. Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. May 19, 2019. <>.
APA: 1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-30; Part 3 of 6. Boston, MA: Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from