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it'sbeenmrbenjaminwhat recommendations you make of his mainconcern the new legislation to help prevent the misuse of the centralintelligence agency all ofthem in placethese matters i've never understood how moraldecency can be legislated aboutthe year and washington over the years there havebeen many occasions when the various people have tried to manipulate some
organization or another in the proper wayit's justan investigationreallyreally the watergate committee heard today from twoformer senior officials of the central intelligence agency about how it helped watergateburglar e howard hunt at the request of the white house the request a year before the
watergate break in him from john ehrlichman when i was working for the white house farmers growformer cia director richard helms vehemently denied today that theagency had any part in the watergate and said he was puzzled why it was so difficult to get thatmessage across to acting fbi director grey just after the watergate break inbut helms did disclosed today that one of the watergate burglars uk neilmartinez was on the cia payroll at the time of watergate and was hastily droppedthat was former deputy robert kirsch and now the general commanding the marine corpsdescribe supplying hunt with equipment and use it including at the stars and false papersin the summer of nineteen seventy one for a secret white house project after being asked byjohn erlichman for help cushion also regarded his troubles earlier this winter whenehrlichman said he couldn't remember ever making such a request ocean today confirmed that youget outside the hearings convicted watergate conspirator james mccord
today charged that the fbi followed special procedures in the watergate investigation butslow down the pro record says a newspaper article at the fbi was required toclear all important leader the justice department for pollen them up if this hadn't been thecase as mccord and a page and sensors to his home and carson after his arrest it wouldcome they would have come up with eighteen thousand dollars and one dollar bills and the other cluesto a broken the case wide open i saw the sidelines that come out of these hearingsare as interesting as revelations of major developments today such a topic with what spiestalk about and casual conversation and that's peter kenyon reports that has not beenpretty have you ever wondered what real spies talk about whateverconversation tape recorded july twenty second nineteen seventy one when he's whitehouse e howard hunt went down to the cia to meet deputy director robert each cushion forthe first time out i've been charged with quite a highly sensitive mission by the
white house to visit an illicit information from an individual whose ideology we aren'tentirely sure of the effort to come over here and see if you could get me two thingsflesh documentation and some degree of physical disguise gen grimsleyi don't see why not if you cutmy saying so you seem to have lost a little weight general christian yes i've takensome officers go up and down when i go down it's because i go on the wagon and dodi verymuch at all and others help ailing irving entertaining going embassies and dinners with theonly way i can lose weight is to be miserable really miserable a littlelater in the conversation huntsays if i'm not a physical disguises going to stick i wouldn't be seen walking out of herei'm sure they've got psy facilities downtown freshman a place i usedto be people with an office building under the press club yesterday a nightclub on the second floor andwe used to meet people out there i had a guy who thought it was just lots of fun to be in this
business she used every meeting peopleand the conversation around the transcript of thiswhich was recorded by general cushman incidentally also had the embarrassing revelation that themeeting with top was set up by john ehrlichman of the white house staff affect the christian and reallycouldn't seem to recall during a series of flip flop mammals and testimony earlierthis year by tomorrow peter reports the major witness will be formeracting fbi director l patrick gray more startling result with a forty page statementthat's very critical white house presumably you will also be asked about them in courtcharges that the closer to live broadcast eleven interview with dick cavettwe've just completed a program with for committee members to help you watch the interveninghour series and that's nightly viewing died in our number one formercia director helms says he felt obliged by law to help with the psychological profile anddaniel ellsberg you suggest that law dealing with government leaked the change
baum says that when john being put out fillers about using cia funds issuedorders to john waters that you do absolutely nothing about the cia's reputationnumber two with getting acia monthly retainer to keep an eye on the state he's from cuba helms alsosays he bought when our thunder should request for the use of the cia secretary located inparis and the third unannounced describes as resistance to john dean's inquiriesabout using the site cia to pay bail money and so it's a lot of the defendanthelms says hisoffice turned everything i've learned over to the fbi and the fourth hour of the former deputydirector of the cia agent robert fishman details hard hams request for falseidentification papers for abundant living also in that hour he says he complained to johnehrlichman about hunts requires american city would restrain in the fifth hour questionand justifies the power plant wanted a camera in a tobacco pouch for use on the new
assignment and in our ocean and admits that the profile of daniel ellsberg the only onedominant american that he can recall it's three years but there's adissenter in today's proceedingsthecommittee will comealthough i pray andmark who committed someof the bennett and away allyof the whole week is sort
of an american made it more american of japanese ancestryi don't want on the markethe'd show his devotionabout poetry the waynot only live about living free worldand the second world war he's up aboveso baylor with investigative theapplication of his right arm he wasdecorated with the distinguished service cross for extraordinary heroisma connection with the united statesand it has proved himself in thelatter days as one of the most dedicated americans this
country has ever known not the aleppooffensive yesterday make it appropriate for me to make these remarksconcerning member this committee proves thatone of the most talented of all americans and the us republicanchairman center right mr mann say that i'veknown then only a sense of that in the senate there's no man i thinkis more loyal and dedicated to this country i don't know of anyone on thiscommittee has made their contribution to its efforts and jennifer null andi had a great affection for him as well as a great admirationwe are an attentionfill the atmosphere and it's unfortunate kind of the short termi think the marker of central asia greatness is that i'msure it will not affect is no other consideration matters wrote
our attention i'm sorry that the events of the lastseveral days have occurred how openthink that it would not affect the objectivity and the efficiency of the effectiveness ofthis committee and i commend you forthat matter to the attention of the official recordand i believe now is behind us and we can get on this andyou know for the common coldor director houseyou'rewelcomemike thank you
asrichardit'sbeenfb
isbeingquestioned initially about itmr dave dorsett association councilmark this year
and prior to that we you the director of the central intelligence agencythe director of central intelligence was likea whole new director approximatelysix and a half years was sworn in on june thirtieth nineteen sixtysix and i left office when mr schlesingerbecame director on the second of four were in nineteen seventy threehow long you alone in worrying that the statecentral intelligence agency in the stores opened in nineteen forty sevenyou're very aggressive helms in july ofnineteen seventy one that e howard hunt had made aconsultant to the white house i was informed of this and yourecall how you were not specifically any longer had this iremember being told that he had gone to work for the white house precisely under what
circumstances i was told on one specific date did you have aconversation with a general question concerning our clients in the summer of nineteenseventy onegivinga tape recorderand i asked what purpose in the city won the conductor one time interviewing that you've beenimproperly authenticated by the white house than they were when he was working at theirbest how long have you know inour town i've known him over the years when he worked for the agency and the recallcrossley how long he worked for the agency must work for almost nosomewhere over fifteen years anyway what was general questions position atthat time in july
yourknowledge was the tape recorder and the camera you're goingto listen and i was informed that it was my preoccupation that time was to find outwhether this new normal he says an important by normal i meansimply available in the store in downtown washington kerry is goingthere was something creepy about him and i was assured they're pretty routine straightforward piece of equipmenti might say parenthetically that when the last couple of days intalking with some of the gentlemen the special prosecutor toxins officewas a memorandum about a clandestine campaign having been giveni frankly sir don't want to invest in camera is a camera takes pictures or it doesn'tyou know it was concealed i've been
toldyou advise them any further requestsfor assistance subsequent through this conversation which i'vejust been speaking i learned i believe in a memorandum thatmr hubbard that's secretary who is stationedwith the cia in paris brought back from parisand assigned to him in the white house he also it has to be done that secretly and you didn'twant anybody to know now that delay was an acceptable sawno reason for this scene today that the agency was being useddoingshores of the white house so i got all thefishermen told and i thought this is totally unacceptable i wouldn't stand fori don't recall whether it was then or a few days later
some point this additional requests which onesmaking of the agencies seem to be totally unacceptable and i asked gen gration andehrlichman and finally this we're going to do this anymoresome trouble hereyou to the rear the room perhaps if you could bring michael novel because if you see me thestory of my life and senate committees i don't raise my voice on an awful lotof speaking and bynow indicating that in your conversation with general question inthat you indicated mrjohn ehrlichman to people why wasn't that john erlichman was legalbecause of my distinct impression that he was the one who had arranged with general question andthese pieces of equipmentbass baritone scott
walker the first time and they're an ugly burglary wasbuildings or businesses or psychotic disordersi forget which weekend and that was i think the second weekend of may thesheer nineteen seventy three i was unsure us and ipicked up on sunday and english language newspaperand saw on the front page of a burglary of the office of the psychoticassassin california primary had been done is it's setin a newspaper story with the assistance of cia the first time iremember feelinga do you know of your own olive whetheranybody was used inadvertently that was the property of the cia i've beenassured members of the agency in this assurance wasgiven me when i was back here and i testified before for other congressional
committees that is given the hunt was notused in the portrait of dr albert office the action was physicallynot oppose the officer who has staked out a packed the effect ofhillary's race and and that says he wasn't given any burger at theboys wondering how it was to use thatin the wake of this is one of the things that seems havebeen perpetuated this one that surround here that he somehow got very important for the agency whichoperate in places and i'm not aware of any recordthat helps during the summer of nineteenseventy one you learn about the request on a member of the white housestaff when the central intelligence agency to do psychological orpsychiatric hold on october yes i was familiar with this requestsome time before this is david young
who was one of the assistants at the white house hadoriginally been on the staff and for me that he wasgoing to work and they've beengiven his duties in connection with general security procedures and the governmentclassification of documents the investigation of leakssuch of other such matters a subsequent to that he called winsympathy and i want to get into these things he wanted to find out how the agency andintelligence community have over classification of actions other securityprocedures so that's on the circumstances the best deal at the departmentof the agency's director of securitythis week it wasdoes it did briefly summarize presence on what this pro
quo aswell i guesssearching for havingme puttingtogether a lot of information about a farmer libya foreign states or foreigndignitary and then attempting to analyze what's on the human beinghe was thesepsychological profiles a psychological study that therewas to give insights into what motivated some of these individuals whilemaking things worse david youngtooso
you want to beand i think this is animposition ask us to do this he said thewhite house was very much interested in that is thetrue story about thatwho showed nosigns of those kind of not going andplease note we do so i will sayhere thatnineteen forty seven whichmakes the director responsible for the protection of intelligencesources and methods from unauthorized disclosure of as written into the wall
ms johnstonyes publicinformation things that demonstrate that investigators thatagency estimates that this is purposes and theinvestigation has been a very difficultrelationship back in maylanguagethat was the issuesodid the staff of the central intelligence agency you know they're out there such a
profile and was according to mr youngi understandi'm fineso that was it it was theseconddid you have a conversation with mryoung in connection with the delivery of the second of alli don't call him untilalexis they didn't feel
they're being put in an unfair position theydidn't want their professional reputations put on the line as a result of this kind of anexercise and he was insisting onprofessional reputationto hear it i believe was tapas intotheir late november of nineteen seventy onewhat was your understanding as to the identity of the persons over at the whitehouse were involved in arresting profile and providinginformation to the agency for the profilei knowat the agency that created
this psychologist i'd been consulting with david young at the white house and thepresident on one occasion anyway and that he had specifically asked him not to inform methat the president certainly did not inform his i was totally unaware of his identification of thisexerciseparticipation was made in nineteen seventy three to the best ofyour knowledge experiencewe've got theresourceslike another director attention tojune of nineteen seventy two as you want the first time to hearthe democratic national committee headquarters in the watergate
yesfight backso thatwas a big move and thirty days following abreak and whether conversations at the cia concerning over againas in the first placewithout us and the director of security to inform avictim of the names of the individuals who just writein and also to say that mr hutton some fashion was connected withthat ms joneschardonnay with
director security to inform me whenever anybody in the agency got in any kind of trouble with theirpresent employees are best employees in other ways right now so thati didn't have to catch up with these events like suicides and house break ins andrapes and the various things that happened when employees of any organization in the city like washingtonso this is a pretty routine thing when he heard about the sexy iare great he called me up you know onmonday when i came to the articles that the no mention in the papers of thestore so i got all the stuff you tell me that this was a lot lesstheseguysthose conversations in the agency's we went to work on various requests from the fbiinformation about people go back to farming and
politicians alike wreckage is important also is a former employee of the agency was andwhen the most important and it's there and be the employee of the agencyleft at different times in nineteen seventythey would hire a desirablenow direct your attention to june twentysecond nineteen seventy two which was the day beforeyou're meeting with mr erlichman was haldeman and general walter white houseyou have a conversation with actual raid on that after noon maybe the afternoon of junetwenty second i believe that the committee is in possession of a memorandum which says thememorandum or note for mr gray that says i have this conversation i have no reason toquestion read various times in connection withthis watergate break and i have no reason to doubt that was
one in twenty seventeen and in these conversations the two discuss thepossibility of cia involvement in the break and i sureknow and all right and with mypreoccupation consistently for mentors time to make this point i'mgoing to be sure that everybody understands that doesn't seem to get across for some reason that theagency had nothing to go with the watergate breakin the room heremr helms that's of june twenty third nineteenseventy so and ask you if you recall attending the meeting with mrerlichman was the alderman and john walters i do recall attending that meetingwhere was that he held meetings held office in thesecond weekwould you please describe to us in substance what happens at that
meeting journalists and i arrived first andwaited for a few minutes and then there's the home in thesterling came into the room as best i canrecall what was said and as the mostjobs and whatever mr erlichman contribute in the course of thiswas the not instead of a smile said i just want tointroduce it this way because it's a little bit easier to describems jones a lot of flakabout what the opposition's they'recapitalizing on itunidentified man whoathe agency he even said
that the five men who have been found in the democratic national committee headquarters have beenarrested that seem to be here at what thecircumstances the fbi was investigating what this was all aboutit theyunidentified were concerned about an fbi investigations inmexico you also at that time they say whatto me was in an incoherent reference to an investigation of mexicoan fbi investigation running into the bank because i don't know what thereference was allegedly i have no interest in thebay of pigs that many years later their the information without awhile they ran into in connection with thatat some juncture
in this conversation with almonds a severely affected has beendecided that the general will have to go talk to acting director of the fbiindicating that these operations ofthese investigations of the fbi cia operations in mexicoand it was desirable that that's not happening thatthe investigation therefore should be at the tapered off or reduced to orsomething that was no i'm saying stopthere'sgoing to be references to mexicoapple recognizes that if the white housedoesn't just call somebody an authority that information about something inmexico which i did not have information about possible white house because of healthinformation that would be a thing for me to find out
was going to beeffective and therefore i want to save time to do this and i saythis an explanation of the fact that since i haveconsistently pointed out those ciaoperations have been violated by an investigation of thevery fact that it was a if the investigation continue to go onit might run into something really new mexico possibility always that means there'snobody knows everything about everything so atthis point ithink it was repeated the second time the general wants to go see acting director grey withhis charge i was intimidatedby calling
us should take place as soon as possibleso the conversation which was that we shouldbe balancing grey is just vastly could weleft this meeting is that there was and i went downstairs to theautomobile mrwilliams yeah and find yourself tooreminding agency and the fbi have the limitation andunderstanding for many years the agency runs in the fbi agents areoperations the fbi should be immediately notified of the fbi made anagency agents operationi wasn't sure whether to do with thisi think only about six weeks
the fbithe cia operations in mexico in place of that of the us immediatelyrestrict this conversation that pointprecisely what hedid the journal will have ameeting with actor curtis yet one after this meeting inthe white house because he reportedly owed later in the day about apregnancy the general report what they'vediscussed and then are the first time i learnedacting director brett jordan toward me about someone having been sent tomexicoeven that explanation didn't say what the money was for
let'slisten at this moment anywaywriting for the recordthe information vacuumnow on mondayjune twenty six the general wardhas received a telephone call from john deanmm hmmyou know there's asealall right and it hadn't
been surge in orders that you want to verify my bonafide hits and who i am in my authority to talk to you is called johnehrlichman so by the time morris talk to me he said he had thought theconversation for itand he was going down to say whengeneral motors came back from seeing that again did hetalk about the meeting he reported being raisedthe question of the watergate burglarybut anywaythat was quite clear that some kind ofhuman being put out the cia was an agency and follow up on theweb the agency was
it was at this meetingabsolutelycertain the heat from that nothinghappens in the agency's named facilities or anything else in connection with its businessi said i didn't care what he would be a scapegoat i didn't care what he was prepared to quit overthe issue i don't care anything about that i simply wanted to do absolutely nothingas i told youanybody elseas he reported me and subsequent two conversations beingunknowingly of those but i said though you hang in there
you will see these twomeetings a general walter tagged with a jaunty nineteen twentyseven twenty eight the general was notable you already comedianand review as to what occurred after itit was going totake place either you briefly summarize of courseabout what general was told you with respect to the beating of the twenty sevenand the meaning of the twenty eight my recollection of it wassupposed to do but thatissue first came up over whether or not the cia out of its corporate fundsand provide bail money for the defense in the watergate burglaryknowing that this issue come up
but i also believe that additional point and maybe it would bepossible for the cia to pay the salaries of these individualswell a survey jail sentencesgeneral laurence conversationand don't want to blame for about how he got himself in this matterthat is the theory of the agency couldn't possibly do anything likethat that he had no authority to do it on his own and his authorities derived fromme in the view of my position was inaddition to convincing thegroup forever and last but not least theground rules which we operate with the congress and that the agency operates in thecongress of the united states an exceptional expenditure of this kind have to be identified with the chairmanof the senate appropriations committee and chairman of the house appropriations committee
during thedanger and it was so important to youduring the week of the twenty six june received a telephone calli respect or setting up a meeting between representatives of thetwo agencies yes i doalsoformer cia people that the fbi was trying to be a lot ofleaks out of the fbi for the first time or that i could remember on matters of this kind ofleaks of ongoing operational material and i want to get together with him and some of hispeople to see if we couldn't get some of these things that straightened outso much of it you're walking along in harmonyso we're going to have a meeting the next day the next
morning which i believe was a twenty eight million the second song on the record i'msure he called back and said that he was so busy that he couldn't make the media wasn'tpossible for normal following waitsorry about that because i was planning to leave the end of the weekend which was beginning to go toaustralia and i want to be there the following week we had a meetingof the lawyers now a raresecond to meetings i'm twentyseven and twenty eight when gen walters enlisted the summary thatgave us apply to the two meetings together or was that slowly withers thatimmediately twenty seven i'm not into itthe
second questionlifelong fascination withrussia this ismorning editionyou were that was rick perrymemoranda of these meetings us becauseafter the issue came up a possible jail or paying thesalaries of those were broken in the struggle may but we'regetting into an area here which was very questionable movie andthat therefore these various meetings on to be a matter of record and cases never came up with anyfuture times those that point in a conversation as i recall a generalor i agree that the saudi reasons audience
to write and record i might recommend thatyou did go to australia around the first of july and it sounded soinnocent and that patrick gray did not schedule the meeting between the schedule the meetingbetween the two of you for usanimaland fred thompson wants to compare today's testimony were some earlier statements made by mrhelms public television's coverage of the senate hearings will continue after a pause for a stationidentification on a great coverage of these hearings is provided as a publicservice of the member stations of pbs and public broadcasting service it'sbeen thepoint
fb from washington and drive continues itscoverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here
again correspondent robert reich new as they go back to the areas minority counselfred thompson knows about the question supposebritain'sbeenthe pushbackmichael fazioa conversation with the factory owners in theplacenta give us to see himwas your conversation limited to cia involvement by
candidate you are going to learn that the investigationmight undergo other cia operations but i don't recall everdiscussed this question of cia operations directorbreakin discussion that we had no involvement and i believe the party's conversationsthis is about a mexican lawyer i don't recall anyone specificallymention the mixing our attention about kind of just a gray hat on his mind in some way the ideathat the lesson cia involvement they were running into the regimei said yesi'm scott simonso the next day you have the conversation with the
person iwas first in that conversation i believe you stated itmr herrmann to the origins beenhome to the five menhave been arrested in the same thing obviously thewatergate investigation was was the reason for the meeting wasanonymous what what the investigation might disclose that was the basis for the newguy can only assume in hindsight it was because the family had toidentify donors why whooping cough iraq and waited to hear what somein the usthe investigation
i assumed this environment in amoment ago and i do want to underline this i was totally unfamiliar that time with what weactually do anythingbeforethat'sevident when the mexican lawyers name was mentioned there was never anyimplications for why there were even asking about it so this was not very revealingwhichone of these situationsan investigationso this
ismorning for meforrester researchyou knowthe republicannomineei take it that there is no objection on the part of theparty line or maybe that it does not have the apartment ofevery right to mandate or in part
with themwhatis itthank youjust the letters in the same tone of this
fitting within the same medication agenda war ii arrived andtwo questions in the room together and nowthe mediareportingpeaceit ismrhelms well you can make an intimation of motion picture malignantit was emotional for
self destructioni'm david greeneimentioned the case it's aconversation and no you didnot knowyou knowbut the committee wasso even though there's alot of red in the opposition political
and as we came inmm hmm the governmentsays much the pointof him forhelpjapanwhether you disagree
withthank youanythingnewgood morningi was aware of talk time since announcing their
general of memoranda for the record i thought about this and we went overagain one of the quran and i think that point had forgotten this lead into the conversationand after i'd been away for some time ive been volatile things inmy memory was less than perfect listing for you know i had nointention of you you're a poker anything elseyouknowlowell says
there are regionalsubmitted in which you mentioned is referring to immerseourselves record leave custody of thecommittee which has written several days after twenty threewhich i have not seen at the time that i was testifying italked to in the waters about it i had no reason to at that point toquestion the general warrants and then he has an excellent of the leader ofcollege you know where it is an actual linguistic anacquaintance big five or six languages believe that he can serve at thatlevel apartment recall something for five daysobviously talking aboutthis and i actually forgotten that introductory as
This record is featured in ““Gavel-to-Gavel”: The Watergate Scandal and Public Television.”
Series
1973 Watergate Hearings
Episode
1973-08-02
Segment
Part 1 of 6
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WETA-TV
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Library of Congress (Washington, District of Columbia)
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cpb-aacip/512-930ns0mm7k
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Description
Robert MacNeil and Jim Lehrer anchor gavel-to-gavel coverage of day 34 of the U.S. Senate Watergate hearings. In today's hearing, Richard Helms and Robert Cushman testify.
Broadcast
1973-08-02
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Segment
Genres
Event Coverage
Topics
Politics and Government
Subjects
Watergate Affair, 1972-1974
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Anchor: MacNeil, Robert
Anchor: Lehrer, James
Producing Organization: WETA-TV
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Library of Congress
Identifier: 2341991-1-1 (MAVIS Item ID)
Format: 2 inch videotape
Generation: Preservation
Color: Color

Identifier: cpb-aacip-512-930ns0mm7k__2341991-4-1.mp4.mp4 (mediainfo)
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Chicago: “1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-08-02; Part 1 of 6,” 1973-08-02, Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed May 19, 2019, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip_512-930ns0mm7k.
MLA: “1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-08-02; Part 1 of 6.” 1973-08-02. Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. May 19, 2019. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip_512-930ns0mm7k>.
APA: 1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-08-02; Part 1 of 6. Boston, MA: Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip_512-930ns0mm7k