1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-25; Part 1 of 3

thepayisa new painterandthen similar senatorwho weighs thirty the famous subprimes wall came fromengland and also is well known in this country but nomy homeland party is a bb king of england came in and without hispension i'mdown in my thinkingand this isan investigation

as actingindividually or in combination with others in the presidential election of nineteen seventy twocampaign related tothingsgood evening it's a brave manwho comes to debate the constitution and the powers of the presidency with sam irvinbut john ehrlichman did that today about a second day before the senate committeewere spending legal arguments in an attempt to justify the burglary of daniel ellsberg'spsychiatrist by the white house numbers the rest of the time and spend undernine the testimony of other witnesses and accusing the late j edgar hoover abureaucratic country he accused john dean of line and john mitchell other than a hazymemory and he reiterated that he had no complicity in the watergate cover up

with and it will spend at least another day we are at one and possibly twooutside the caucus room world and ehrlichman and wilson versus urban it is applaudingaudience there were other developments related to the watergate crisis president nixon met thismorning with a republican congressional leadership vice president agnew was there and so asrepublican national chairman george watch when the meeting broke up gop senate leader if youscott said he felt the urban committee was correct and reselling the subpoena of white housetapes and documents but he predicted that the president would ultimately try up in the supreme courtthe republican house leader gerald ford said he did not feel that the president'sdecision to withhold the tapes was having any adverse effect on the president's support in congresshe said there'd been a celeb the case of republican backing of the president thesenator robert dole of kansas was his predecessor as head of the republican party set onthe nbc's today show that he felt the president should tell all about watergate

it the president's not involve one and inform some of us i think it's long past that we cansave the watergate will just collect service and also a new harris pollreleased today and tang among other things the results that sixty percent of its applehill at the president should released the tapes and papers the next round of the confrontation willcome tomorrow and peter gave a report on that mr will bring anothermilestone in the continuing constitutional battle among the white house the senate watergate committeeand special prosecutor archibald cox subpoenas direct president nixon todeliver presidential documents and tapes to the committee and talks by ten o'clock tomorrow morningbut nobody really expects that to happen instead senator sam irvin toldreporters today that he expects the white house to seek to quash the subpoenasthat legal maneuver would propel the thing and a federal court and eventually to the us supremecourt if the white house doesn't act levin says the committee has twochoices faster walk and seething contempt citation by the whole senate against

president of iran and he's he doesn't want to do that the other alternative is to seek adeclaratory judgment your judgmentall rightpapers they will sink in and that will give the president that willmake though all that thesupreme court should render such a verdict and in the favor of the senate committeethat the president would intend to have played wellon that sort of the i don't think the work of thewar now going on the same grounds has already sidedthere is a separation of our battle of the supreme

court says that his position that allof vindication that there was no such lawand i feel that's ralph about you're going to be treated the forty three minutes of it but over theconstitutional powers of the president united states john cameron first anniversarylaw center is with us now is gordon guidance can you offer an understanding as artassume you're a supreme court justice and the basic issue you have to decide for thebreak in of mr ellsberg's psychiatrist office justified when europepower residing in the president to waive the fourth amendment rights the more we protect your home inyour office against unauthorized intrusions yesterday there was a question abouthow the day she will see and involving all all of hisconcern is whether or not the constitution authorizes the president said that the first questionis does the power exists and will hear some talk about the steel seizure jason it's aboutpowers of the president are quite limited to talk about the new york times' case with the president about how to get the

first man was limited then the question arises is it exists whether its preconditionmachinery three which are gone over very heavily in the testament first of all there must besome special authorization by the president and here we have a president one a twenty secondsaid i have no time through a break secondly the matter must involve national securityand a question here is who decides whether national security is at stake is not the presidentalone from a good judgment be reviewed by the courts the third issue is even if it is this howcan be directed against innocent third parties we're not themselves a source of concern for nationalsecurity has placed a psychologist and finally in power existswhat are its limitations does that extend as far as robbery murder back to be discussedbut then you'll see the argument for yourself you are in a basically between mr wilsonsuburban you can make your own decision john cramer will be back at the closer to livebroadcast to talk about this and other subjects so concerning today's hearing session you'll be joined atthat time around bar longtime washington

mr lee one of the few evenings are replaying endsbefore midnight here as i might a summary of the day's quality in the firsthour chairman of the non lawyer john wilson i do about presidential powerswilson suggesting that the president holds a reservoir constitutional power isnot going to find in colognethere's an instance of domesticresistance training and then the second hour he says he never discussed an incentive for the watergate sevenbecause the president's marching orders were that there would be no clemency and heargues in earlier testimony saying he did not propose the destruction sensitive documents fromsites that were given their wealth every play isreally had no thought in any previous marriages the fbi investigation thepentagon papers saying about this report from j edgar hoover to people wasnothing that said senator is not the end of a

secondtiernowi amdavis eyesi cansee is a

twenty fiveyes he wasi would not rely on what i thought of themas a source of how it's ait's a recognition of the possibility of a source of poweri want itthe mistake securityin today's

caseyou're onlya guest it isnineteen forty sevensecondsseventhe decisionis a tremendous issuewith that

douglasdavisidon't knowwhygood morning butthere is a certain onesixth of that is probably centuries ago in nineteensixty eight is a question

which recognizesin the state'sfinancesanticipating that eventtwenty one years ago a disabilityandkatie davis and they might apply in that casedoes it is

the defenseand then they'll be finetoday isthatday and inthose casesbecause there is a reservoirrecognize upby your measure by bikepacked up in the

key decisionmakers the chairman of the judiciary committeereportingit wasn't made by anylaws whatis itmississippi'slegislation about it isthere anysecurityon the cia headquarters in chicago

illustrated buying spree of oilthe supreme court saidleonahelmsleythe massive security purposeshe waswire tapping of a

domestic security cases as you out of that was alot about thestatus of this is just the civil warand that yet he doesn'tbelieve his areathough i must saythey are facing invasion thesecond item on the jobah and you knowsay his widow reasonable maybe don'tyou know i was that was that the hallwaysat why sicily you know the rest

of the army and probably thewarrior as unisex the handsthe city awayhe did not have a one one us andhe didn't have a lot of the search and so there is something inthe idea of sectors and seizuresbut coming to renovate theiranians they came up in thisad he's explaining everything thati don't rememberevery even before youhad this very political thing although the president

in the fall in the second i wasas a saucer now you know itsays that was a mistake and iam not that chairman is that way asi do not have any case where a sauce of a cannow add a drop on the linewell as a reporter whether that not a lot of the supreme courtwill do just as well as now on the language of the old as asauce how at it as a source of poweras the report says years back andwe began in the united states as oneof the two section one of the constitution

that the constitution of the united states as well it was in thenineteen eightiesvery gentlythere's raisinsthedomestic security innineteen eighty fouras thomas

bit's still aroundnowas that aresaying that are incertain diseases mentioned the area thepresident'swiretapping lawtheydo yeahit is

falsenow the medianone at thisquestion of a use of thereservoir a possible reservoirthe polls in the rest of it tofind outas they decide thatquestion one reason is that

there is this massive oil patchinnineteen sixty eightand indignation that that existed in areservoir of how the time goes up well i sayoh miss my love letters of the presidentto a crimeto a tiny nation againstforeign governments have anow i know i'm i'm open to the fact thathe shoots somebody on the street

that's rightmr mueller yesas a formal invasionapprentices a question was on herand less and workplaces like that you're wrongand now thisinvestigation wiretapping is another kind of invasionof the virus they don't have a sense of the man whoseconversation is being solow leethey're saying

that it is the positionyou realize what they'resaying isthatin andthere's anotherreason is not getting froman inmate through his job lossesand you know bythe sort of linethatisthat is right

national security that'srightthe scientistsnational security informationtheysettled thecase and say thatthat's rightthis is

say it againhe's whitejusticei do veryextreme placesthat many carsasbess

yeahoh yeahand there's anso thosecasesthe united states against terrorismcases and they usein februarynineteen seventy one sales requestsfor one thing

i mean in your interpretation of the case of humansversus humans because people in this was vacantpositions long maintained up all the originalmissionpatientsvictims rightlegislationthesecurities law

this isthe problemyou knowyou're welcomewhat aboutitso the americans

believe thati don't think thatithink bothwell nowe willit was atlanta

and he'sit isnowyouknowallright all rightit was

because of youthey don't have it and you about a lotof inflation there's an argumentthat the nation willand the videomikewelcome and hethought

they don'tdo you knowwelcomeidon't knowi think there's a part of thepopulationyou're welcomejuan williams

you hear thatyou get theidea to my friends and i want to suggest toisrael when you do it in thestate like your spiritto begin with the chairman is on the pointing outthat he's just a country lawyer your letters tosay he graduated from harvard law school went onatarea it isthe

planhe's very young lawyer arguedbefore the us supreme court his first time during very eloquentlypersuasively that you just a sad young man that's not allthepope raisins committee that both of you have identified a basic andfundamental element that is the court has noton their version of anelection yearthere's no doubt that there is a lot of powerthis time mr this

committee sets by reason why now is there is no waythe authority of a congressional committeethat this investigation was necessarythecurrent situation and now threegenerations that don't hear the answeryou know recent yearsthereis here andnow notnecessarilyand the national

security structurethankyousenior centerand they wereableto protect him insecurities of thedetermination of foreign intelligence activity we have a father'sconstruction to reconcilethose veryvery explicit in the right went to seeif we can

and that we can'treconcile and then we resort to the most important and determinewhat the otter design construction firmin legislative history only ashort sale thenit's estimated we have afactual question it is entirely possible toconstruct an attractively the president does or does notthis reservoirand two yearsago we really then atagainst a range of national security

andgoing to prisonyesveryor areason to believeali khameneior what the president'sexecutive he believed that a secure communication systemfor four hours about the national league a pre emptive nuclear strikepowellsituation the situation the very importantthemes during the situation might look different holler

at the radio station is todayoh yeahif we knewwhereit is the occasionalsituationssince thiscommitteeand there isan issue that is

one of asia's what basis was therethat there was a quorumyou knowwhat what is a reasonable basis believe ininternational security promises tone of what brandi doi don't knowidon't want you and i don't think

that you know i'm in law andwe'rein the description of thelawthingslikei am yeahi'm at his elbowsand hiskneesjust as our discusses a thing of atime he's given up while i mean it i think the

mistake that security and nationalsecurity is a misleading weren't so because thatis your name i know but he recognizes thati'll bethat is becauseof the pollsi thinkyou're sayingitwas necessary to protect the nationso i'm doing that

exercise of his reservoirby foreign intelligence caseallow thatraises this question which is which is differentnow there isnow this isolationit's okthe genesis of this isa messwell certainly

finding nemoi was like ok greatit isa satisfyingexperiencesurveillancethat sense nothing in the legislation say don't

understand about president to act in this area and the finalseconds military says that may be deemed afilibuster as a very nature of the nation becomeartificial limb international relations and internalsecurity guards stay as gemma may ihave a lawyeri was testifying lasttime and one of a spanish voyager'slatest they say wastestified against him and he's thawed out by saying i'm justan angler when he said thati said well i'm going to raise money

and send a lay said well mr wilson i've seenyou assholes space of lifeand i don't think the violencelike thisis bigsame law will probably bejustified yesterday the president has the talkagaini don't think i'd have very much to themuch more of the discussion this morning i was referring to this body

of law that has been discussed in this more us is indifferentnow and matters involving night securitypresident of forgery well again you'regetting me into that area obviously issubject to the experts and as mr wilson pointed out this morningthe question of degree here and be carriedthrough and reasonable lang so i'm i'm not prepared answer word that lineepisodes obviously judicial question you don't thinki don't knowwhere the line is yousir detray

the investigationpreviously that should also includeto ascertain the contents of thesefiles there's nothing in there about the means to be pursued and my testimonywas and continues to be my assumption was that there could be done bycompletely conventional investigatory linecovert operation beyond taken to examine all of themedical while it's still held by gilbert is thathow do you think you've examined medical file wellthis occurred in a sense because i don't ask this question before that theone way that it could be done this through false pretensesdozens of

another someone whonow i'm not a korean investigativesenator and and what i know from my own experience is thatpeople who are korean investigators as i mentioned yesterday insurance adjusters people of thattime i have over the years brought to attorneysinformation of this time which they had been given an assignment thatday and simply was not in publicas dettheythink that you owe and you're surethecovert operations beyond taken to examine all of the medicalpossibility of bio of bird psychoanalyst

welcome sirand that is i was lucky do youhave anyone go out and be fighting white house as a whitehouse that's unique and i think that was somenow you write that the orion who were right againand you don't know exactly where that followed be limited you don't think you couldinclude murder of a crafty on puerto ricans areways to check on tvwell it isright now ithink very definitelyyou are senator

you lose thirty the famous findslaw came from england and also is well known in this countryknow my homeland is a big new king of englandcan enter without its attentionit'sbeennow us arises in the name of national securityugly we believe that we have a serious national security problemat that time is what relationship about the field in nationalsecurity well the cia has perfected the technique as iunderstand it again and that's that's what was in whichthey

foreign a foreignofficial someone who is the object of their investigation forthe device out what they call a psychiatric twopeople and especially in history and experiencewould use these profiles that they felt strongly that in thiscase where there were so many unknowns we don't know whether we're dealing here with theus iran or just the individualwho are whether we were dealing with aig serious and penetrationthe nation's military knows secretsin such an uncertain situation this time it notpositively but might get some important additionalingredients with which would help understand the dimensions of the bow you know i

can't forget that i mean therewas no doubt about the psychiatry isknow what i can't second guess i guess second guess theinvestigation experts who had used this technique and as i say they think the ciamaintains the staff and they do this thing on a regular basis and it is used in our governmentnow those include testimony before the committeethat bbc's position is that they have not ever used it beforein a case of espionage involving united states says i don'tknow this or not but in any event the people involvedthere were very concerned about what they were dealing withand they felt that he didn't think thebuilding was is security risk to the country of coursethe being identity of the individual there had nothing to do about

the cia had prepared a psychiatrichelpful and it was not how and when mryoung and went back to the cia and said this is not helpful is that we don't have enoughraw material to go you're going to have to get us some are factualinformation out and so this was then an expansionthe original covert investigation of this individual and hisco conspirators and his pattern of how we got these documents and so on toinclude the assemblage of such other information that might be helpful to the ciain finishing this psychiatric let me give you some of thesituation and see how you would compare for someone tomovies they had rented the box inone of the blanks here and watch an ad would change but thedocuments and that law calls involving a nice if you think

that if you live far did rabobank go in and take those documentsi had any idea what the extentsuch a power would be don't you think it'snot a medical records in one instance notgetting a vision documents and by my guest with youi don't think anybodyrightall rightany interrogation

the chapelwas the usual regardless of what feelingsand emotions of the audience may be those committees and he didn'tfind as thing fiat them on the show i'm in painto go around trying to find out what if ourrevenue united states is breaking and on the work conditionsand well i guesslatelyisn't itreally it makes it in aweekduring the trial

the objectivity and even handedness with which we try to takeour joint with the chairman and chairman of makingthat observation i very much hope that the gas and this may present today afuture guest committee will scrupulously atthe mission here public television's coverage of thesenate hearings were continue after a brief pause frustration over the vacation on agreat coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations ofpbs for public broadcasting servicefb topayto

paythepointfrom washington and fight continues its coverage or hearings by the

senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondentrobert mcneil senator john mccain's inquiringabout the authorizationif you have bought the lack of profiles themunlocks a bank in washington you wouldn't authorize the endms jarrett i wonder if we couldperhaps escalate this to the level of seriousness of that was viewed in the government at thetime that this was not simply and in aneffort to pick up cause this was an effort to crack whatwas at that moment the largest rain on top secret documents that had ever beenmade that made history the star i thinkthe one that i

suggest the magnitude of the crow magnitude might be this kind of asituation i suppose that you know it in a safe deposit boxthere was either a device or the conclusive information aboutsome attack that was going to be made in a nuclear attack that was going to be madethe next step now does the power of anextent getting into that safe deposit boxes or do we say a man fall is hiscastle is a composite is his castle and solar power if you thinkthat you know the documents were doingi think thatthere might be over or someonewho without really matter would have a permanentdavid president has mediatedthat he has set up oh

mani happened at the stake in that as theseriousness of the problem is presented i think you're exactly right in your suggestion andyou couldn't lose the cooperation of individuals to avoid payingthe cracking of the bank or the cracking of the doctor's officeand my reaction when i first heard about thesewas this because that certainly wasn't in my familybut there was not a b rating in an area near my competition from that from the beginning wasthat this could be done without adding a lot of that againannan expressed her sales are now at least not to my knowledge i don't thinkthe rest of the night and the irony is that at no i've heardtestimony hear it and i would not be totally responsive to your question however

if i did not at one thing i mean one importantally how i sat in a meeting where the president gave mr croweis for his instructionsi must say that the president would have to master govery slow that he wanted to mr coburn andthe people in this human to take such steps as were necessaryand i canrecall in that conversation specific weapons to the use of progressand summary procedure for the dischargeof federal employees who might have been involved in this episode mymemory presents the line to europe taken from the congressional record maytwenty third nineteen seventy three as president

i assume responsibility for suchthat despite that lawit canbe i think it's important in that same connectionhowever to lead the previous two paragraphs which say at aboutthe time the unit was created daniel ellsberg was identified as the person who had given the pentagonpapers to the new york times i told mr crow this is the mississippi as amatter of course are our unit should find out all the good about mr ellsbergassociates and his motives because of the stream gravity of the situationand not then know what additional national secrets mr ellsberg mightdisclose i didn't impress upon us to grow their vital importance to the national security itis a sign i did not authorize many illegal means to

be used to achieve this goal however because of the emphasis put on thecrucial importance of protecting the national security i can understand how highly motivatedindividuals would have felt justified engaging in specific activities and iwould disapprove of a bit about my attention that refers to this july twenty fourconversation between the president inthat i think that is a fair characterization ofemergency which the president expressed a mystical and undoubtedlyit recognized israel situationmight well boeing and he had been charged with taking extraordinarymeasures to meet with the president was right and very graphic terms ofalso at the same time the strategic armslimitation fried negotiation documents and income isso that the president by the twenty fourteen so i knew

that is negotiating position in the strategic armslimitation treaty negotiations or no to the russians and that andliterally the negotiations have been discussed with mrbrolin director says the disadvantage in which he foundhimself now in trying to combat this country's foreign policy and work out those armslimitation having had the secrets this point mrwittman isn't that if i assume in hereis greg but againit is needed to fightso i did not everauthorize a wiretapor any other extraordinary measures

on my own space when i answered<unk> yesterday about whether i had authorized such incidentin no case was out on my own storiesinevitably in every case in whichi transmitted an authorization to theattorney general it was after referrals are the president and hisgroup was the field and brakemenisaiah said yesterday center on over two days but it was on vinyl everyweek september nineteen forty one in any event nineteen seventy one years now one wasin the new york times is dry and authorize the publicationof those papers in the new york timesi don't think i have to it was june nineteen hundred and seventy

one i don't have the data decision about i can't disagree with that if ibreak in the day afteri think two things happenedone investigation was not preventednewspapers from publishing the pentagon papers because that was of course anaccomplished fact the investigation here was to find out who had stolen top secret documentsand disseminating them in the newspapersat that time star reason to believe that the documents delivered at the soviet embassywere not the same documents as work but in the new york times i think you knowsenator that there was that there was a disparity there was a difference between what was printed in someof the newspapers and one and what was for instancethat delivered to the fans of the other and there were actually about threedifferent versions of these documents are in existence

and by versions i mean different different documents in different sets fireand so it was entirely reasonable that billythat the soviet embassy had received more sensitive documents and thosethat have been printed in the new york times but the main point here is that the investigation was notto stop publication newsweek investigation here was to determinehow so many top secret documents that get out of thefederal government standard is at the end of the hands of a foreign power somen for the sake of argument to an erect don't believe the premise which i didall i could conceivably get on november eight but itconceivably get on it now iunderstand as i said before investigativetechnique year of the psychiatric profile require informationjust as the

determination of who the co conspirators were require various kinds of informationnow you might go to a service station that didn't getinformation about vous mr ellsberg friends were that doesn't meannecessarily that this service station attendant was a co conspirator oneand certainly there's no suggestion here that the psychologist was in any way a co conspiratorwas the holder of what they considered to be importantinvestigation information science day well i thinkthat yesterday thesituation was a unique onein which the director simply refused to permit istopical biden particularly to conduct interviewsosama mr ellsberg's and itwas a it was a situation where the case was not being treated as a

primary place by that go and enlist the cocaine doesn'tsaid i can't move beyond the us with the kind of cooperation that this case deservesunited fan but the united states and helpless and trying to get cooperation offbi i'm saying that the attorney generalreported that the present an extremely difficult situation with a directorwhich he felt could lead to the resignation of some of thetop people in the beer that while the attorney general feltthat he could reverse the director's decision with regard to the suspensionhe did not think that he couldforce in america celebrationandi'm making any way shape five billion that's one

rule was ending anyway saul on communism andi've heard clearly was not thatat the same time it appears that droz was a very close friend of europe's and i think everyone will know thedirector new of his loyalty to his close friends as chairman mike grahamisn't my unit has taken his three friendsare mrrobinson's word on this i wouldlike to clarify the rocket yesterday just abit as i understand it you testified in response to questions from usthat that the justice department will be taken and compete is thehead of the information about the old rate than a year ago

forinstanceanywaybecause of course this is a very seriousallegations or just use thechief of the criminal division he hasmade an affidavit under soviet but understand this is a fallen eldercaged in a city of mosul and iwould like to salute the affidavit at this point and they recognizedhim whatelseyu says a little information no information

and ninetiesinto the office of daniel ellsberg's psychiatrist until april sixteenth nineteen seventythree the allegation contained in a moment we'll alsosubmitted to mate information as youcan and in the case of the united statesbeforein about nineteen seventy to see arequest made by the prosecutor stansell and

information the changes thesignificance of thedatesecurity division marchtwenty six nineteen seventy three and it's not thatbecome apparent to look at what made the cia material in the regionon about may third nineteen seventy three yearsrusso as a result of the disclosure of the memorandum of april sixteennineteen seventy three and me mrdavid which ishow he came to have knowledge of religionis good suggestion that force was not until the

vision here senatori certainly have brought you only hear saidi did it not for the purpose of the truth of that of the stateand i did it in response to a question about what i thought at the timeabout who knew about this now with the affidavit doesn't saythat you all might be able to determine is whether ornot mr bean was correcting what he told me about what those pictures youbecause he told me that one of the pictures was a picture of the gordon liddystanding in front of the building's main body and that the other pictures werepictures all up ransacked premisesnow if in fact the affidavits collected and they gotthese things in the justice department back in october nineteen seventy two whichwould have been some time ago i would be standing in the

foreground i know that my tests more dignitya promise for beings statement that made them than just thinking about thepoem again i i hesitate to say over those years that idon't love for the truth the witness that means only about as i guess at that that you what ithought of my introduction of the other day thatwas in the way to beat your chest in charlotte mr peterson as an entirelydifferent viewpoint is which i think is important from his point of view as well isthe justice department also raises an interesting point to about how it'sbeing could have found that a year ago if the justice department settlement to theinformation until octoberbefore

one of the important piece of testimony that we havemostly in these involve this whole matterwhether the president ever authorize thatanybody can offer executive clemency to any of the defendants news i'm surethis has costmr chew had meetings were jumping on januarythird nineteen seventy three or four and gender if iwould you tell a primitive walker each subject of those meetingswere beginning with the lawon january third i met

places to be once alone at noon and once at seven pmwhen the polls themeeting with mr golson related to aletter which has been had told me about that ourearlier briefly and this was aletter which i believe mr golson had received fromit was a verymelancholypassionate and where i think the letters and writers matter fact that ittalks about as being abandoned by his friend and so on and there itwas on the heels of mr about having lost his wifemr colson was genuinely

concerned and shaken by this he had a long friendship with the huntsboth mr mestas and he had proposed thatwe get together with friends or withus attorneys to registeris continuing friendship and his and hiscompassion for hunts loss of his wife and so on and the settlement would notreally been abandoned by a friend this is the thing thatwe discussed it with vegetables that evening at seven o'clocki took it as a as almost agiven in the meeting that there would be some timeand tothe polls and it was simply a question ofwhat we would be under the circumstances

they obviously delicate to have a white housecontact one of the defendant's right at this particular point in time sowas discussed and it was discussed in terms not of a personal meeting between themwhich is what lester hunt apparently one of them in the letter but mrgolson talking with who was thenon to turn an unvarying this message ofsupportmr dean raised thecautionary warnings that if anybody from the whitehouse and the situation like thatthere was an inevitable opportunities formisunderstanding as to the purpose of the meeting as differencesthat might or might not be given some clancy was

obviously the forefront of everybody's mind in this meeting as one of the thingswhich was a potential danger and advicepeople at the meeting between the minister calls a previous conversation that i had had with thepresident on that subject and indicated that wasback in july was yes sir indicated to them that the substance ofthat conversation which was that the president wanted no one in the white housetoo get into this whole area ofclemency with anybody involved in this case and shirley not make any assurances that itwas goals and said that he was sure that he could avoid that pitfalland having to have a conversation he was advised by describing toeither take notes or makeshift metal most of the conversation that he can reconstruct theconversation with it the question never came up and that is

what polls do it we had a subsequent meeting where and before we go to most ofthe time would you be a little more explicit in your testimony is to followthe discussion and rose about executive clemency who brought it up and who saidthat the gender of that meeting i can say who broughtabout senator we were going overthe the pope mental problems that would come from that because i'm having a time thateither witnessed their majorities of turning it had beenhis firm practice not to have anycontacts because the implication there becausefrankly everybody knew they were closed but they had been closefriends and a lot of suspicion that somehow mr golson might be implicated in the watergatebecause he was a close friend of his treatments mr golson really over backwards do everything hecould to avoid getting any credence or credibility to the suspension so

when we get into the debateandi think it was johnnyyou're very common reaction whether you'rewilling to do in the future andit was in a row what kinds of problems are you live within five and you better be ready forthis and i look out and what's what's responsibility i think both being ihad some mental reservations about the desirability of this but mrgolson have a very strong upfriendship or sadistic and here was this is really moving lettera and he was saying i just can't leave his fellow without hearing from now how we go

about our meeting on giant generated for the nextsubject so now that included attorneygeneral findings and it had nothing to do andi don't think it was ever meant to i see a meeting tounlock the word forthwith the pros did you discuss watergate inany fashion i don'trecall senator thatwould have been my first meeting with the president after icame back from about two week absence i guess it isabout anhour that obama's policy of the president mr polman thenthere came in about forty five minutes of that meeting and i

believe that was a catch up sanctions on libyalong absence and i just don't have any recollection specificfox oh well i do but they're they're not in mycustody and so like andalso ann and suck up at the contents and then from somewherecrying and regurgitate it say it is alaborious process because we as you know are not in a position to make anynotes or or being easily the most of themeals and all i can all i havefbfb