1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-29; Part 1 of 4

it'sbeenyou know mr eamessaysi've sought toprovide this information with all the facts and information that iknow are going to matter to ensure the question's been asked to meand to i'm nothing of my own involvement in this matter andprovide the truth as i knowthis has been most difficult for me because of how to speak against thepresident not a staged some of my friends and some of my formercolleagues i attempted in this governmentinitially from working within the white house and

when that didn't work i took it upon myself to workand without and i honestly pay that this committeereaches the truth in this entire matter and reaches it as quickly as possiblebecause i think that there's a terrible cloud over this government must be removed sothat we rememberin the seventiessinging

there is none good evening tonight we haven'tend of the longest we get all the watergate hearings a week that consisted entirely oftestimony by a single key witness former white house counsel john deanthe basic elements of his testimony was set up monday when do you read at two hundred and fortyfive page statement since then senators sought to have been elaborate parts of thatstate story or detention in a contradiction a test of that truth of thestory will come later other witnessesin today's testimony these emotionally can only when he admitted thatyou can choose to stop you're looking at mayflower hotels in downtownwashington as confusion began understandable when it was learned that there is a mayflower coffeeshop in the statler hotel rather than not being stuck to his guns and hisstory emerged from their ordeal in fact this failure to shake dean's testimonyhasn't answered many observers we can get word as busy not a single

member of the watergate committee as yet they insisted that the president come before to tell hisstory but there've been a lot of suggestions to that effect today sen baker theranking republican noted pointedly that president wilson at the time a senate committeewas considering a treaty of versailles and by committee members to company nowsenator levin noted that president lincoln appear before congressional committee looking in than thoselakes and lowell weicker yeah spoken connecticut republican side in another lincolnprize with funding working on it read a portion of carl sandburg biography of thesixteenth president x or girl with a senate investigation into charges of treasonagainst this is like an incident that astonished the members of that committeefor the for the committee table stood solitary his hat in hishand as valentine abraham lincoln's toit come by some incantation vessel afloat in the pine forests of

announcement could not have been more stunned that there is almost anhuman sadness in the uighurs and above all in his rivals sense iscomplete she was the committee member phil had to do withfundamentals senses of the operation now and spoke for no one knewwhat to say the president had not been asked to come before the committeesuspected that he had information that we were to investigate reports which are truefacts and treason upon his family in the white house at last the morningchorus hooks all in control lower depths of sorrow and the tone of voicei abraham lincoln present of the united states appeared my own volitionbefore this committee of the senate to say that i have my own knowledgeknow that it's untrue that any of my family or treasonablecommunication with me and having a test of this he went awayas violent and soccer a sitcom we sat for some moments speeches

and buy gas agreement know were being spoken the committee dropped all consideration the rumorsof the wife of the president of the training well i'm an interview of senatorweicker by impacts peter kay at the conclusion of tonight's report right nowsenator rikers your calls one of those who routinely criticize the way the watergate probe wasconducted before the urban committee began operations well today three men who had beencriticized for the initial investigation remove themselves from the case theyassistant united states attorney general silbert seymour glanzer and donna campbellalso quoting today was john ingersoll who had been director of the bureau of narcotics anddangerous drugs and the sauce it was unable to make the knicks only in war on drugssucceed because of continued interference from white house aides ehrlichman and all of them but there wasno mention today of why you decided not to stay on now that has two problems weregone we'll also be talking about today's testimony with formerwhite house aide stephen hess and law professor david austin at the close of the hearings

tonight but before we go to the senate caucus room here is our hour by our rundownof today's hearings and the first are we see the confusion of the washingtonhotels at issue is where dean met with president nixon's post military may have a comebackand a more questioning the admits he invoked the fifth amendment before the watergate grand juryand that touched off the debate among the committee members and our number two doingtestifies that after some initial opposition there was a political change of heart and chet huntley isbig sky resort in montana it's an interior department approvalalso in that are deemed justifies that senator edward kennedy was one man on the enemies listwho was admitted to extensive surveillance and the third id revealsthe john caulfield found and then decided i wanted james mccordasked about what he told the president about the cover up because the committee you justdon't live with the president in the fourth audiences expect others to contradict histestimony but is confident the truth is my ally asked about that

september fifteenth meeting he says i was convinced the president knew of a cover upin the faith it admits the money from harvard tumbler that went to watergate defendants wasan improper use of campaign funds also in that hour he says he dropped thecheck your originally put in is say replace forty eight hundred dollars in campaign cashin the six flooding justifies that herbert come back learn the notes that he used tokeep track of payments to watergate defendants and he spends much of that are trying to clearup inconsistency about several trips to miamisecurity proceduresthank you i would like to state that

i have never had a long publicservice where they've all races andi also like to make astatement the committee is discussed a questionablewe were just like a pencil firsttestimony from witnesses and we decidedwe'd make more progress in ways we probably wereracistwellthe committee

asbethsay not just in the spirit of precipitation butwith absolute sincerity and i've said it before i like to say it againi've never in my life worked with management more cooperative they're moresensitive and understanding of the importance of those occasions mr adler like abipartisan effort up these hearings which i think they have been spared a greatprivilege for me to go for in their cellit'sbeen whitewell

you were at the white house that day you had manydiscussions and they provide input into somelegal opinions with respect to movie separationof olives and recently the possibility that the presidentmight tear bees of the night before and a congressional committeeto not get anyone elsedid you have anysuggestions it isand there were several statements issued on monday a policy of executiveprivilege stem from the separation of powers and setand of loosely refer to the

murders executive privilege that isenglish instead referring to the separation of powers that whenwhen we were looking at the executive force orcollateral reviews but not as follows president he's at anappearance per se with the research as much of that as opposed to staffappearances i am i reading thatbut the president's statements let them usethe separation of powers and a mr ziegler in his hair mystatements usually and alsothe year now wasthere any legal opinion with respect to the ground thatthe two facets are two phrases covered wellset i think you'll find that about in mid march the

phrase executive privilege was not been used as muchand that when they began using very publicly separation of powerspress conferences that occurred in mid march the president said that he did not want to use thephrase executive privilege rather he won't use that phrase separation of parliamenthowafraid is exactlywhere that anybody might have advised the president as to whether or not he was subjectto a subpoena of an action committeei amreferring to the yearpresident's news conference on august eight twenty nine nineteen

seventy two and i will quote from alec conferencea reporter asked this question mr president will it wouldn't be a goodidea for a special prosecutor in from your standpoint to beappointed to investigate the contribution situation and also the watergate tapesanswer the president with regard to whois investigating and now i think it would be it would be well to know isthat the fbi is conducting a full field investigationthe department of justice of course is in charge of the prosecution andpresenting the matter to the grand jury the senate banking andcurrency the main reason he meant the house it is conductingan investigation the general accounting office an independent agency isconducting an investigation of those aspects which involve the campaign spendingall now with all these investigations are being conducted i

don't believe that adding another special prosecutor would serve any useful purposenow you stated before that there was a mohelat the white house to try to stop the house bankingand turns the investigation and that youpretended that testimony as to what went on in the white house in the bank rightnow with this going on under auspices of anyone close to the presidentof course on september fifteenth that had a discussion with thepresident about this he asked me about the bankingcommittee investigation he cast me who was hanging from the white houseside reported that mr richard clarke was a man who had formerly worked with thebanking committee is a member of a minority staff or may with members of thecommittee and at the conclusion of ninety oneand that was about the time that he was making a statement

to the press well obviously that's correct because it was september thirteenth at churchthat arose in his office directly and if we're talking about a pressconference in august and bury me following weeksof the white housewhen did the president tell you about this was it beforeaugust twenty nine when he made a statement the press conference or afterwe're not after september mccain was approximately seventeendays later they're doing now in the sameanswers he went along the president says followthe other point that i should makeclear that these investigations the investigation by the gao theinvestigation by the fbi by the department of justice have at my directionhad the political operation the not only the white house but also

of our agencies of the government and i want to give aspecial attention to that this is quoting residents stillin addition to that within our staffunder my direction to the president mrdean has conducted a complete investigation of orleanswhich might involve any president members of the white house or anybody in thegovernment i can say categorically that his investigationindicates that no one in the white house no one in this administrationpresident named lloyd was involved in this bizarreincident not now i ask a questionwith respect to any product that you handleddirectly for the present where a

report was required wouldn't youassume that if this is true that you would have beenrequired to file a report it's her andalso assuming that this was true wouldn'tthat report be available at the white houseand so assuming correctnessall the presidents statement than it necessarilyfollow that if you made a complete investigationand in the hands and for himthat the president should produce that being reportedit really that the white house has indicated there was no theinvestigation i think that is one of a number of statementsbut then it is to you a

question that you were not requested by the presidentto make a report to him or to conduct thisinvestigation not at that timefb i want to go into this over thematter of the sentiment to conferences wellnow did you discuss specificwithdrawal mr erlichman and others who might have been attending theirmatter is directly dealing with meso paulo car i guess we getnow will you is as succinctly as possible the biggestpossible remake for the record now just exactly whatthose discussions were with respect to the car

well we have a lengthy discussion ranking over twodays and i've estimated betweenbut basically we're focusing on how to build this committee at the end ofthat discussion on the last day of the discussion on sundayafternoon that's truei'll beabout seven individuals who have either been convictedor had pleaded guilty would they remain silent during theduration of these hearingsthey're still making money man niceand funny

his responsibilities as moneymr richard moore who is also attending the meetingto go to mr mitchell and lay it on the line that it was mrmitchell responsibility now i assume they get that because mr morrowoh manmike mr moore and the economy areand it raises of mr mitchell mr mitchell

well mr moore and where were these particularconferences actor san clemente designed to death is just a matter ofworking out they were designed to discuss how to deal with thiscommittee he would not unravel appearbefore this committee and ontheposterit's bwisconsin's government money

david greene reportinghe took it last night i believe out of los angeles wemet the next morning the records review so insteadof the mayflower hotel and he was staying at the mayflower hoteland i would assume that if the committee investigators which at thehe was twenty nine yearsit was a learning and also meeting now so there was not aninverted my election as the event at a shortmeeting and the coffee shop as i was to meet him in a coffeeshop and i recall was a very very private in the

so we decided that there's room to discussthe matter and that was there in the middle of thatcommittee has subpoenaed recordsit's boththeproteins butweeksbutwell you're seeing this being a lot of my foil to all dated

june twenty seven nineteen seventy three percent of theus senate office building washington dc tocelebrate in the first of june twenty seven nineteenseventy three of the best of our knowledge our kids do not reflect a master but thecomeback is being arrested yesterday after june one nineteen seventy twothrough july one nineteen seventy two richard leo is reallyso vast have aletter from a statue of health again addressed a namelessalso dozens of peter of the committee was aprosthetic copies of the hotel records of autorecord for most of the copy is not very good is to have to go by theletter itself at any rate here is when it's attached to asignpost that it covers of a previous emptiness of the washington

no registration card and foiled be nine cents for threecomeback was registered in our hotel june twenty ninethere's the nineteen seventy two a ritual for our registration card receiptin prison and so jonah well knownas el telephone number three to four dirge two centsif we're unable to locateyou knowas i recall you have justified three times verypositively did you knowoh youhaven'tms kalmbach often discuss matters

in a code name for example at after our discussionbegan referring to mr hunt as the writer he began referring to mrcoleman as the bush he began referring to mrmitchell as the fight the use of these images of our discussions andthis might explain that if you decided not to use his own name inenglish in the hotel and i think that nick answer that thatdoesn't have a very clear recollection of walking into god help me in thebarbershop you really get agood night's sleep he becamemaintain further privacy i recall him also turning on the televisionactually adjoining door and we sat on the other side of the room and have a conversation inwhich i relate to him everything i knew at that point in time we have to come outof the pan to that question is poisoning the generator it

also occurred to me that that could be the case that he was using an assumed name but then one waya remnant of a suburb record of the statler hilton hotel it justdoesn't make sense that he was coming out of a radio under an assumedname no no he was here and the way to record could befun why in the world would you register under his own at a nearbyhotel the washington hilton and then engaged in a room over the mayflowertwo to meet with us just the samei had testified the mayflower and the vai havefor centuries treatiesup

on the officer has to have room for you sir how long do it inwashington i don't know about ten years and you don't know the difference between a washingtonhilton and i'm a photo i can i continue to getworsewell i would say i haven'twanted a river that yemen has been arrested in unusual anactual memory you have derived from school is right on the islandi refusebut you knowthe substances the fact that themeeting that occurred women and we went from the

discussion of the matterand that is very clear in my recollection the substance of the eventand one of the reasons i'm curious about thosean attempt to try to confuseyou as it is to try to pin it down the busy you haven't tried to conceal the meeting and was thecomeback of course who knows all about two and he's going to testify before thiscommittee has no question about that but i can understand it the confusion inone took place because it's an extremely important meeting obviously this is will cover upas far as the financial part of the first of their usual meeting didn'toccur somewhere else i meanprobably show up with that it was busy wecouldn't find at a booth was quietly went from theshouted his room and that's it

television on because there was a durant joining yournext to the room and then we proceeded to have our conversationcould that particular meeting you speak of at the mayfloweroverturn some of the time for the ventilator maybe a million maybeno sir that that's my recollection this is the firsttime we've ever talk about this matter and these were the circumstances under which we talked aboutit was when he flew in from californiait was fire and we met up with thenewsroom that repeated urgent and then have a discussion and let mejust read a reflection of refresh our recollection could this meeting have takenplace out in front of the hay adams hotel in front of them so you walkedover from your office and he walked over from his hotel and matt outsider hadn't

discussed it with subsequent occasion when we metafter he had money in his possession as he told me and i believe thatwe're going to meet with mystery alaska with that time and that was itthe market that we put up on thebench and we're looking back over towards the white house and talking he had a fetish a case where theymight walk out of my office in the service sometime after this initialmeeting couldn't have been the initial meeting at least according to your collection a storylet's go back a little bitat the crowded and you know we have a discussion on theuse of a forty eight in fifty eight

dollars and it actually were or you couldn't use yourcredit card not allowthe committee staff has brought to my attentionchefsare youit'sbeen thepushback ithink that's important soyours is not yours yes it

isbut we're taking avery four thousand eight hundred and fifty dollars is a check and then the americanexpress company foryes it isyes it isand we go down a little further on the rim of the other checker on tobuy the market for two hundred and fifty dollars and fifty one centsis this also you're checked as saul silver credit card billis down with anothercheck the date november twenty seven nineteen seventy two hundred and six thousand fiftycents is the show chat go for credit andthen and then dropping further down another in march an american express

company for five hundred and seventy one dollars and forty five cents is thefuture that as another in april the american express companyfour hundred and fifty nine dollars and seventeen cents that is correctdo you have any recollectionthe committee i believein my own records will be found the stubs indicating what eachexpenditures for a credit card payment i know that because of theresult of some foreign travel when i did use my credit cards whentraveling abroad some of the for six

months make the paymentduethat isfinancial reformoh mywellthe

like youknowwellwhat does that mean i wanted toweaken i amhumanifit's important senator that particular location of that meeting out tome that was the substance emitting it was important that relate to the committee andfor substance of the meeting and what occurred in the result of the meeting now what is your testimonyis one hotel and it wasmadems smith yes

i have my weaponseptember twenty seventhat i'm expecting certain amount and i live basically on my salary inand do not like to reach into brokerage accounts and capital to make expendituresso as i say i think this will be fully revealed of the committee whenwhen my financial materials are gone through in greatdetail on the committee have that as their development of those recordsit isn't your testimony that you use credit cards onlyfor expenses in connection with your job you do use credit cards also

says the current welcome for example senator when i was at therepublican convention and often travelingon behalf of the government i knew i would be reimbursed for some of those expenses ratherthan to go to some elaborate procedure when you're checking out of a photoso itwas the easiest way to critically when you knowyou're going to be reimbursed because a government expenditure or a governmentexpenditure know i think that that we have that reflected when thepeople you know go through my financial records that was often the case in some of these expenditureswell ari i have no doubt it is i'm sure that will be true of my question was don'tuse credit cards for personal expenses to i guess thatsort of has anotherpoint that i'm interested in india

is this meeting of march twenty first with thepresident which of course was an extremely important meeting iwas veryi'm also a totally confused managers didn't understandsummarizing briefly you mentioned of course thatyou talk with the president about that remain committed you talkedabout the cover up if it was going to continue it would require more perjuryand more money because of the demands that were being made onconvicting peoplesurgery on the cancer itselfeverything two thirds

of islands but then you also made mistakesafter i finished irealized that i have not really made the person on the staff because he asked mea few questions after he asked a few questions he suggested it would be an excellentidea if i get some sort of re think of the cap and he was veryimpressed of my knowledge of the circumstances but he did not seem particularly concernedwhether implicationsthe testimony wasdoesn't seem any sense to me you know if the president was nothey're fully knowledgeable about this whole cover of business anda part of it as i think you have indicated before the committeewhy in the world would you want the cabinetry well as i went into an american notthe conversation the taper down until we were into a light question and answer session

about some of the areas that i've gone into and i must say that ihad a similar reaction and idon't think we would i could give a briefing onthe taliban taking on that he thought that that might be an important that iexplain some of the parameters of the problem and the like it wasn't a lengthy americai felt sometimes carry my presentationthat he was very sort of impressed withthe way i was giving a presentation i tried to i wastrying to really eat it one of the most dramatic speech is that ever given inmy life well it still ismy dad i never did give a briefing in a cabin that withdraw immediately in aconversation i added that stuck in my mind that if one of the points thati really didn't feel i had made the full implications of this

than clear that the sort of thing that as a you know that the testimony didn't know that veryclearly in my mind when the suggestion came up wellbecause to me to maybe the president didn't understand for some reasoni can't imagine a president out its daysas to see for yourselfthe rulingbody in the polluted mitchell all these people being involved in thiscriminal activity and hear or possibly involved in this from a lotof water which is a little bit of that they usea cameratetanus to come back and all of these things when on anything new rightas i understand your thesis is how in the world would have instructed anybody

who had total knowledge of this like you to go before the captain tellon several occasionsno i wish toreport as compelled by this committee the facts as i know them and secondlythis was a part of a dialogue follow i don't think the president have anyintention of sending me and to report in full as i had just recorded himi mean i made it to become a much less money because it stuck in my mindas evidence of the fact that the president not really stillrealize the implications of what i was talking about and i recalled meand explaining that his involvement andhe didn't seem to be won one ever get into it or anything of that nature so that'swhat's in the testimony because it's a soda thank senator if you win the re read the testimony

in my mind the same wayand that same thing occurred to me that maybe even on marchtwenty first eu wasn't totally aware of all the sciencesdivision testified to italy's last friday so that was it i can understand why you wouldhave suggested over the cabinet let's goyoudid do so i did that you had had enough of this business youwanted out of it and families in early aprillate in march early you decided that youget enough of this cover up them and you wanted to get out of the oven anddoing encores as i would put it maybe come clean as anothervillage that's senator what i wanted to do i would i was trying

to work internally within the white house i was very anxious to get thepresident out in front on this issue i have hadconversations from camp david whitcomb or exploringfurther ideas we explore this on countless occasions on how to end itthank youdecisive action andby the time i went to camp david i realized that i have notaccomplished what i was trying to do internally began to think aboutit i might be the one to stand up andthat my own steps and taking your own steps of course willbe revealing and telling all stories in the court you meanthat's correct when it went before the grand jury

last week as you know that is correct you tell em all star idecided to exercise my constitutional right at that point in time what you mean byi invoke the fifth amendment you didn't own anything did you mr kohutnotthe victim because i do think that we ought tohave the rules and has to the women's councilmay be found these constitutional rights that the attorney can testify heremake statementsi willsay he'sright and by so doing out like all theattention the chair the fact that nineteen fifty nine us supreme court decided the caseof united states versus brutal and in that case the supreme court said that it's

not proper cross examination and it's not inconsistent for what thisobligation to take his fifth amendment right and on another occasion testifyand as a result of that decision the case that we reach out to southerndistrict of the oil and then when it made it was they went to the federal bench and menevery track is about that and i'd say to thecounselor just about all the testimony has been present it before this committee what aboutthis witness or any other one that would never be admissible in court of lawwho knewall right

and and not others alongsome questions as to the supreme court while i think the great bulk oftest does it would be admissible idisagree with thatthank youmost ofparliament without social bit of advice such witness one is testifying in his legal writingsare a must listenrandal o'toole a witness at thismoment that i simply estimate thenumber for the grand jury citing ethnicity

and also i was there i tried to convey to the grand jurythat i wish i could tell him the story because everything but i've told thiscommittee would be admissible before the grand jury and the grand jury was very anxious to hear itextensive discussions withit prosecutors about the timing of my appearance before the grandjury the prosecutors themselves were in the middleof the situation or whether there's going to be a special prosecutor no special prosecutor theresolution of that was with mention i think that you'll find in an affidavitattached to a motion filed in court regarding my appearancebefore the grand jury some of the facts that relate to thatbut when the grandjury decisionthat's an unusual cases in this

jurisdiction on the leading case been referred senator toread as to what happened when one way this one's rights in its jurisdiction been anyjurisdiction and then they're looking at theentire picture the reason i felt it was necessary to give alotof them go out like a politiciancommitted to being with the innovationwhodoesn'tthe committeethat's right

the state is that it's improperexamination by crime rates the fact that on a previous occasionsnow that ballis very important to go back that will be uglyitiswell i think the obvious itwas the only answer questions senators why my council and the statewe go on to what's happening here now that's really

interesting here of course we've had testimony forfiber is this is the fifth as a statement of two hundred and fortyfive pages and indeed it you have endeavored totheir talcum at everything of course that you knew about ethics commission isregretful you're testifyingthe committee has made a decision i understand by a unanimous vote theimmunity i don't come before this committee without substantialconsequences on my future legal rights even though i am under immunityhere that'scorrect that is correctwell just a

nice areathe five days againas i understand it at our knowledge do youhave no knowledge that president nixon was ever involved in the planning of the breakdown of what youget is that correct and then inthe year nineteen seventy two economy of ahead of the president on whatit was on september the fifty years that's correct yesi don't thinkin nineteen seventy three two occasions thatrichard to discuss what a gig with him prior to march twenty firstwas that me on february twenty seven is that correctand i'm answering santa's baker's questions yesterday i don't know butyou a pleasant summer i we were going through all of it

circumstantial situations leading up to the meetings that occurred infebruary and march and the fact that realestate at developing strategyoccurred in california after meetings and on the tail end ofthose and consistent with those i had a number of meetings with the president where subjectsrelated to that particular california policy settingmeeting was been continually that imainly direct involvement of a possible criminal activities ofwatergate february twenty seven was the first meeting was not one as youtestified in the question of obstruction of justice came up is not correctthat is correct and youstated that you might be implicated in some way and that and the president said no he didn'tthink so is about the substance of that is correct that ahmad akkad

you also are a lot of money and thenanother meeting on money that you have another conversation with him that involved thisexecutive clemency this is not iraq on marchthirteenth we discuss book clemency and the fact that there was no no money no way toget clemency discussion came up as you recall is at the end of anotherconversation that i raised with them the fact that there were demands been made from moneyfor continued money there was no money around the pet yes weknow you know how much of a macaw so i gave him my best estimate show whichi suppose a million dollars or more you said to meand then he came backmm hmm

you know it's amessage through the game that thebears and seventies that war who's making the principal demandfor this money that one time i said they're constantly coming from mrkun through his attorney and he then turned to the discussion of the fact that the headtalk with mr mcmahon and mr carlsonabout clemency for mature and any western lowland set the fact thatmr olson had come to him contrary to an instruction that i was aware ofthe races with himthis money was deliveredan iphone and that date was laundered been learning aboutthings that chad never known about before and ithought this was quite funny instead of laughing so there were really

two main discussions on watergate the money to cover up money that you'vejust discussed and also they exacted upon and say under stalin was present duringthese discussions well senator not the two were takingaway from your interpretation that a lot ofthe discussion occurred regarding the press conference is theposition for one take on executive privilege and the likeindeed i do but i'm talking about the criminal activity suddenly press conferencesexecutive clemency do not involve any any criminal activity i'm just trying topinpoint the criminal courts and then of course there was a meeting on march twentyfour hours i might add that in them and go to onepoint in time i went to discuss this with counselhe's interviewing

show intention and that's why that's why i'vetried to report everything i know to the committees fully is right now i understanda committee member i'm an extremelyglad you did because i do think it shows a lot of light and it will helpthe deliberations of the committee when other witnesses come before and i'm not through it inanyway deprecating the importance of the events that surroundedthese transactions in watergate that i am try to pinpoint the problemthere are and that really is thesalmon substance of your direct knowledge of direct conversations with the presidenton the criminal activity on the march thirteenth may well i also serve the march twentyfirst outthisis in the series of meetings and the april

no i realize that but it i really i'm not interested now not try to cut you offhere but across the president himself later said the march twentyfirst was the time of the first to really realize the full implicationsof the rationale that came outmarch fifteenth april fifteenthwhen he was in his mindor has been led through a series of rather leading questionswhether president and one point in the conversation he said to me if you recall whenit was that you gave the report onsome of the implications for decadesremember the exact date in march he said i

believe it was twenty first and i said i will not shedit was the next day when i was in his office again that thenew talking about a statement that he was going to put out he said i gotmy confirmation now and then i believe it was the yearthe twenty first time he kept he referred to it at that time becausemy cancer on the presidency statementlead author not so odd referred to it he referred to itor senator bernie has completed his questions about mr deansfinances in that meeting with herbert comeback the debate over what is proper questioning is notfinished and we resume with more of that public television's coverage of the senatehearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on averagecoverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of

pbs the public broadcasting service thepowerisby it'sbeen

and pike continues its coverage of hearing about the senate select committee on

presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert mcneilwe go back to the senator's image on to councils and asia areoffering opinions on what type of testimony is admissible in courtand i think the question does come up from time to time andas we mentioned here by witnesses or by members of the committee as soon as a buildingof certain hearsay evidence right now and a lot has been submitted to allmembers of the committee the leading case that the supreme court is polishversus united states and it has been the position of thecommittee on the counter working on the committee that even hisstatus as the money in the details within this rule

is an exception for the disabled supreme court has ruledthat is where there is a conspiracy and the overpasses and i thinkat this stage there's insufficient testimony of whichwould go to relocate them indicating a conspiracyunder the collar and that there had been other attacks thattherefore the statements of a co conspirator and they further it'san in the course of the conspiracy or hearsay is an exception to thatis a rule on this and that in every court in this country and thereforefollowing up onthe evidence of other witnesses which is that there's a conspiracy and over at the supremecourt that it will influence in other cases that that testimony isadmissible and goes to the jury and is used against the defendants that mightbe charged as conspirators as any other testimony

as an exception to that should be made very clear to ananomalous been given to the committee that the hearsay evidence that hasbeen admitted before this committee will be admissible and anywork on this country under the religious decision acceptingconspiracy co conspirators whatthe chief counsel a sign that some people may be indicted onconspiracies just a similar thingevidence before this committee andi understand it prosecutors includesthe conspiracy led to morsi's engage in the commission of a crime gets aconspiracy and i understand that even as little row who just recently pleaded guiltyguilty to conspiracy count

and the conspiracy is a major crimein this country and it's an incremental but of laughtergerman cars are worthi don't mean to be decisions and i certainly don't intend this tobe critical of mr desouza fine lawyer jennifer jurney findwater and senator this committee's too far gone we'll start worryingabout yourself and we are too deepinto the business of finding the dreaded second guess whether portland mayorhas been a professional lifetime a continually surprised atwhat the courts have made it or didn't admit depending on my point of view i think itwas john oliver wendell holmes who said that hire lawyers spend theirprofessional careers troubling slow and i

have no desire to shovel smoke so i really recommend the germanand once again this is not a criticism of the committee but i recommend or counsel i recommendthat you recommend that we not think of ourselves ormercury or jew and that we try to qualifyfor a really leaves you with a pole or knowledge that what we dowill have little if any effect on how the rules of evidence areapplied if there isn't that litigation years of war criminalbased on the same facts so far i thinkthat rules committee are important to rule against her assailantsexceptions and though there's a rule is richly emasculated hundreds ofexceptions too i make the rules themselves are far less importantthan getting along with the business and so we don'tfall under the business of extensive of objections during the

objections of the arguments about rules of lullabythe quality of the evidence we can takethat milliondollars beand he laidlike thatyou thinkyou're

welcomethat relationshipandthis is thankyou allthat the new legislationon internet chairman good morningedition inadequate conversation moment ago and i'm sure he willnot think that a breach of confidence repeatedly sent our says don't tryto explain your friends don't require it and your enemies won't believe

i thinkthe pointof itandindividualsiknowthat's right

and you mentionedandhe's the reason that was a dozenyears ago and thatwill accept him and the alamothis is a diseasebusinessor for having mein the course of all our testimony to the extent that we have conflictsand i'm reminded of a lawyer in scott county tennesseethere

are so many killingsjust rememberingthe parti diditwasthe peak

i wish that was for the questionisn't about us custody were not prepared by the office of the councilpresidenttestimonyresumes today the following statementas a statement you have depicted all others in thewhite house has excessively preoccupied with political intelligence useof vulgar mother's insecurity and yourself as a restraininginfluence on these preoccupations amnesty this was your responsei do believe i was a restraining influence of the white house havebeen a wild and crazy schemes i've testified to some of themsome of them i've not justify many of the memorandums that came into my office

became a joke in fact some of the things that were being suggestedi think if you talk to some of the other members of my staff or if your investigatorslike to talk to them they would tell you some of the things that we would automatically justfall just like a political animationthan to lose jobsi would do anything so ido view i had some restraint and once i did not have adisposition or like for this type of activitythey don't like about where to a memo dated augustsixteenth nineteen seventy one and it justify the us was prepared formr haldeman ehrlichman and others of the white houseis dated august sixteenth nineteen seventy ones plus about acontroversial subject

i like harry potter because this memorandumaddresses them out of how we can maximize the fact of our incumbency in dealing withprisons known to be active in their opposition to administration's stateda bit more bluntly how we can use the available federal machinery to screw our politicalenemies there's not a lot ofexpertise i knowrather we needed the project coordinator and fullsupport for the project and brief the system would work as follows themembers of the staff francis calls and dan flanagancosponsors should be requested one was asked to hold afew we should be getting a hot time the privatecorporations and determine what's also the deal is these individuals have the federal governmentand how we can best who then france's availability federal

complex litigation prosecution of several holes right saysproject to have the full support of the topofficials of the agency or department and proceeded to do with theindividual this is a very important memorandumis this show it all are straining everyone'sas i said senator in a memorandum originalquestion yesterday picked up a good bit of both before i wouldlike that i have a request that requestafter request to repair thisi thinkso we'renot going to get him

thingsas i say one when the ear thingthey kept sending their political enemies to get back to me that was i never did athing together project coordinator i there was somenowand while it was the conception on themap in some camps and in these things and for my political enemies projectthere was no political enemies product operating out of my office so i thought welli'm only going out and you know satisfy my superior thatsomething is being done in fact it was not being done so i thought there was a riskfree is your testimony then that thisman will describe an activity which in theminds of those areas was considered important it was

not a while or craziest thing it worked and it was awild and crazy surreal because i i knowi didn't operate that way and considered a while creative speedall of those areand your testimony have submitted several exhibits withlists of names politico's members of congressmembers of the media members of the entertainment field ceteraet cetera i'm taking this demotogether with the lives of my emotional center before we go forward i don't believe thatlist is completely allowed itself it just happens to be a part of that ireceived in have the access to files were shutdown and we may well be additional names an additional informationavailable on them it would have been enough

and on one of theexhibits you have a copy of a memo which suggests that thatcertain things can be done such as calling the internal revenueservice now in addition to that you've testified thatand one of your meetings with president nixon youare saying we'll take care of him after the electionwhen the president for anime newsas a characterand as i said and then you give us examples of concreteexamples lead the memo itself was never implemented i never did have apolitical enemies project that losing anyway operational we dohave evidence year low for example a tvcommentator with cbs was an invited orator but internal revenue service just for

the purpose of iris mann is not correctfbi investigationmany timesso we're going to receivei knowi canimagine a lot ofmy own you only in connection with clearingindividuals who voluntarily submitted them in relationship to a

nomination for ohyes we go availabilityof i refer to himfor a long timejon winokur is all of the department of agricultureto quit right in its heels on the big skywas this a political favorand what's the moment in the army was thirty four soi thinkyou're referring to a recent thirty four a minute sequence herei believe that might be in four five six or seven of

bellyou say this isriskyon meat one pointand actually the government that you're referring to the

city that may well answer your question with his line of question wasvery important because so your acceptance of list thehouse a couple hundred names of their distinguished americans most ofthem and so suggests aboutactually looked over these have been caughtup in connection with these names other members of theseven members of the house whose names of the areabut today you've been able to tell us of the possibility ofa man from cbsexamples i'm asking this weekmr colson has gone and suggesting that the list yousubmitted were a socialistthis was so inviting

the names listedwhere he was to coloradobut want the worst enemies and submit them this wasagain because i was receiving through mr heggie industry strongthe minimumwagethrough his lips what the candidates it was goneand i knew that these people were my enemiesand thenbe in again you

knowit was sent back to leave and went back in thefile again ever happened least onea on the top i cannot icannot answer that because i think that it would realize that my mile there'sless enthusiasm for dealing with things like this just to beused music was just an exerciseand that your work in a personal and anagency where no official using these livesisrael usesthe fact that some of the president's friends

and neither and exhibits and i just think of inappropriate right now to mention that inthe individual's names havinga relationship withjesusand inmany waysandnow finallythings

exhibitin the nineteen nineties nowusing names in this instance that they were a question of anaudit was going on that you know somebody who was presidentand there are several peopleandi went to the justicedepartmentfbfb