The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

Intro JIM LEHRER: Good evening. Leading the news this Monday, another passenger on the hijacked Kuwaiti airliner was murdered. President Reaganpraised the Afghanistan troop withdrawal agreement, and the death toll in the Pakistan munitions explosion rose to 93. We'll have details in our news summary in a moment. Charlayne Hunter Gault is in New York tonight. Charlayne? CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: After the news summary, two Middle East experts on what's behind the Kuwaiti Airways hijacking. Then, the first of a series of reports on the candidates' records. Tonight, Democratic Governor Michael Dukakis. And a top L. A. law official tells us about the war on gang wars.News Summary HUNTER-GAULT: In Cyprus, Arab hijackers of a Kuwaiti jet killed a second hostage today and threatened to kill more of the 50 passengers onboard, unless the plane is refueled. The killing came after the eight hijackers aboard the jumbo jet had set two deadlines and demanded nine hours of fuel for the craft to fly to an unspecified neutral country. Despite the presence of three members of the Kuwaiti royal family aboard the plane, the Kuwait government had steadfastly refused to meet hijacker demands that it free 17 imprisoned Shiite Moslems. Today, after the second refueling deadline passed, an English speaking hijacker issued this ultimatum:

HIJACKER: The 30 minutes will be the final 30 extension minutes and after that, either we will receive fuel, or you will receive the corpse. (plane door opens and corpse is thrown to tarmac) HUNTER-GAULT: While an ambulance removed the body of a man described as a Kuwaiti officer from the tarmac, the hijackers forced another passenger to contact the Larnica control tower. The passenger told the tower, ''The hijackers say if you don't give us the fuel, they will kill all the passengers. Please listen to this. '' Late today, still no fuel, still no break in the situation. Meanwhile, in Beirut, a group holding U. S. Marine Colonel William Higgins said it would execute the officer if the Kuwaiti jetliner is stormed. Yesterday, a similar threat was made by the Islamic Jihad against American hostage Terry Anderson and French hostage Jean Paul Kauffmann. Jim? LEHRER: President Reagan had praise and acceptance today for the agreement to withdraw Soviet troops from Afghanistan. The deal is to be signed Thursday in Geneva that will start the removal of the 115,000 troops May 15. Mr. Reagan spoke in the White House Rose Garden.

Pres. RONALD REAGAN: I believe the U. S. can now join the Soviet Union as a guarantor of the Geneva instruments. I have therefore asked Secretary Shultz to represent us at a signing ceremony for the historic accords as scheduled to take place in Geneva later this week. This development would not have been possible had it not been for the valiant struggle of the Afghanistan people to rid their country of foreign occupation. We take great pride in having assisted the Afghan people in this triumph and they can count on our continued support. LEHRER: Mr. Reagan also praised Afghanistan's neighbor Pakistan for taking in thousands of refugees during the Afghan fighting. HUNTER-GAULT: Pakistan declared three days of mourning today for victims of the huge ammunition dump explosion. The blast devastated two cities yesterday, killing at least 93 persons and injuring more than 1100 others. While rescuers searched today for both the missing and for additional live explosives, Pakistan's President Zia denied reports blaming saboteurs for the blast. Zia said the explosion, which leveled large sections of Islamabad and Rawalpindi, was an extraordinary accident. He also described as speculative reportsthe explosives at the dump were stored for anti communist Afghanistan rebels. LEHRER: In the Middle East, eight more Palestinians were deported today from the occupied territories. Israeli authorities said the eight incited violent anti Israeli protests on the West Bank and Gaza. They were sent to Lebanon. The action drew this negative reaction in Washington from State Department spokesman Charles Redman.

CHARLES REDMAN, State Department spokesman: The United States position on this issue is clear. We strongly oppose deportations from the occupied territories. As we have said before, we believe that they are counterproductive, that they are in violation of the fourth Geneva Convention, and that they only further inflame passions. LEHRER: Most Arab businesses on the West Bank and Gaza remain closed today in an anti Israeli protest organized by the Palestine Liberation Organization. Leaflets also appeared calling for a day of firebombing later in April. They were also signed in the name of the PLO. HUNTER-GAULT: Salvadoran President Jose Napoleon Duarte, has revoked the amnesty granted to three men linked to the killing of six Americans in a cafe in 1985. Among them were four off duty Marines who were guards at the U. S. embassy in the capital of San Salvador. A little known leftist group connected to one of the five anti government guerilla armies had claimed responsibility for the killing. The government's amnesty program for political prisoners was part of the Central American Peace Plan signed by President Duarte and four other Central American leaders. The U. S. Government had protested the amnesty for the three men, calling the decision ''morally mistaken and politically damaging. '' LEHRER: Organized crime in the United States has been damaged, but not destroyed, the head of the FBI told Congress today. Williams Sessions told a Senate Subcommittee hearing the ability of La Cosa Nostra, or Mafia forces, to influence the business and political communities has been weakened. He attributed some of the success to cooperation of former organized crime figures. Such a man told the committee today he left because the old code of honor was destroyed by money, drugs and greed. He testified in Italian through a translator. He was hidden from public view by a screen.

TOMMASO BUSCETTA, former Mafia member [through translator]: The mafiosi are not romantic figures like you see in the movies. These people are men of violence, men who let gross amounts of money rule their actions. Until the public really understands the true nature of the Cosa Nostra, its power and its violence will continue. I think there's only one way to overcome the Costa Nostra. And that is to educate people, to let them know what these men are really like and how dangerous they are to a civilized society. LEHRER: Today's hearings were the first of a series to be held this spring on organized crime. They coincide with the 25th anniversary of Joe Valachi, star witness testimony before another senate committee. Valachi was the first mob figure to go public with information about its operations. HUNTER-GAULT: Finally in the news, a spokesman for Republican presidential candidate Pat Robertson said today his campaign organization had complied with the request to turn its financial records over to the IRS. The agency is investigating the tax exempt status of the Christian Broadcast Network, founded by Robertson. That's it for the news summary. Still to come, the Kuwaiti jetliner hijacking, the Dukakis record, and L. A. drug gang wars. Terror on the Tarmac LEHRER: We go first tonight to what is happening on an airport runway in Cyprus. Some 50 people remain hostages to armed gunmen who seized a Kuwaiti Airways 747 jumbo jet six days ago. Two passengers, both identified as members of the Kuwait military, have been brutally murdered, their bodies then tossed out on the runway tarmac. The hijackers are demanding the release of 17 people now serving time in Kuwaiti prisons for acts of terrorism five years ago. It is the same demand made by pro Iranian Islamic fundamentalists who are holding Western hostages in Lebanon. Robin Wright is here to help us understand what drives both sides in this confrontation, the terrorists and the Kuwaitis. She is a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for Peace, and the author of Sacred Rage: The Wrath of Militant Islam. Robin Wright, who are the 17 people being held in prison in Kuwait? ROBIN WRIGHT, Carnegie Endowment for Peace: The 17 were charged and convicted of a series of six bombings in late December of 1983, including the U. S. and French Embassies, as well as Kuwaiti strategic installations. They are predominantly Iraqi, as well as three Lebanese. They are alleged members of DAWA, or ''The Call,'' which is a radical Shiite organization, pro Iranian, very militant. LEHRER: Why are they so important? Ms. WRIGHT: I think they are symbols of the general Shiite cause, fundamentalists' fervor throughout the Middle East. They also were the first known to be captured for the terrorists suicide bombings, hostage takings and so forth. And I think that their brethren are determined to get them free. LEHRER: Any question of their connection, and the overall connection, with the Islamic Jihad who is holding the Western hostages in Lebanon? Ms. WRIGHT: Absolutely. In fact, there -- Islamic Jihad -- the head of Islamic Jihad, a man named Emoudg Hugnia, has a relative among the Kuwaiti 17. And it is not just a political issue, it is also a personal issue. LEHRER: Personal issue meaning? Ms. WRIGHT: He's concerned about his relative. He wants him out. LEHRER: Wants him out. They today, the Islamic Jihad issued a statement threatening to kill the Western hostages, at least two of them, the Americans, if some kind of action was taken toward these terrorists on the airplane. Any reason to believe they couldn't deliver on that? Ms. WRIGHT: Well, the pattern in the past has been Islamic Jihad has not been responsible for outright murder of any of the hostages it has held. One thing we have to remember, however, is that Islamic Jihad does not hold all the American hostages. There are now four different groups involved in holding the nine Americans, and up to eight holding the more than 20 foreigners taken in Lebanon. It's possible that they would carry through, but the one, Bill Buckley, who died when he was held by Islamic Jihad, appeared to be not an intentional murder. He appeared to -- his death appeared to be the reaction, an illness combined with very harsh treatment, and possible torture. LEHRER: He was the CIA Station Chief in Beirut. Ms. WRIGHT: That's right. LEHRER: Okay, thank you. What if anything can be done to end this tragedy is the question we put now to terrorism expert Neal Livingstone. He's an adjunct professor of national security studies at Georgetown University, and head of the Washington based Institute on Terrorism and Subnational Conflict. He has a book coming out soon called The Cult of Counterterrorism. Is there a military option available to the Cyprus government? NEAL LIVINGSTONE, Georgetown University: There is, but it's not a very good one at this point. The Kuwaiti government does not have the capability itself probably to take this plane down. In other words, to free the plane, to attempt a rescue operation. So we'll have to go to another government to do so. And it becomes a losing proposition, whether it's successful or not, for whatever government helps the Kuwaiti government. But as the situation continues to deteriorate, a military option becomes more viable. LEHRER: Why is that? Mr. LIVINGSTONE: Well, there's a rule of thumb that after they've killed the first hostage that all options have to be considered. And because you feel at that point that all of the lives of the rest of the remaining hostages are in jeopardy. So anything that might be done to -- any viable effort to rescue the plane at that point becomes an acceptable alternative. LEHRER: The idea being that some of the hostages are going to die -- may die in the rescue attempt, but they're already in jeopardy anyhow? Mr. LIVINGSTONE: That's right. And this seems to be a very cold and calculating group that is holding the plane, more professional than some other recent hijackings we've seen. And they've indicated now that they will systematically start killing hostages, and they've killed two. LEHRER: Now, from a -- what is a military option in this case? Storming the plane in the cover of darkness? Lay that out. How would it work? Mr. LIVINGSTONE: Well, obviously you would hope that there was some type of negotiation that could bring a successful resolution to this problem without a military option. But most Western governments, and some third world governments maintain specialized, elite hostage rescue units, which have the capability and special equipment and the equipment to storm that plane, to blow the hatches, to use various types of flash grenades and other devices to overpower the terrorists and to rescue the hostages. It's a very tricky operation, it takes a lot of luck, even with the very best units in the world. And it's not a consideration or not an option to be taken lightly. LEHRER: Any units available in that part of the world that could do this? The British, for instance, do they have a unit there? Mr. LIVINGSTONE: Well, the British do have a unit there, stationed on a regular basis, on a British base on Cyprus. The question there, of course, it becomes a no win situation for the British. If they carry out a successful rescue for Kuwait, they themselves become targets around the world of the Islamic Jihad. If they fail in the attempt, and I have to underscore the fact that there's both a lot of skill and a lot of luck involved in carrying these things out, then they lose on both ends. They become a target and they may lose face and passengers in the process. LEHRER: We'll bring Robin Wright back into this. Robin, the Kuwaiti government said again late this afternoon that its position had not changed, they were not going to negotiate, they would never give in to this kind of pressure. Is there any reason to believe otherwise? Ms. WRIGHT: The Kuwaiti government throughout the 1980's have taken inarguably the toughest position on terrorism of any government in the world. It has consistently refused to give in on the issue of the Kuwaiti 17, as well as other demands. I suspect that it is going to try to stick to this, despite the fact there are members of the royal family onboard. LEHRER: Do you agree with that, Mr. Livingstone? Mr. LIVINGSTONE: I do, and I think that the Kuwaitis represent to the rest of the world a model to be emulated, as difficult as that may be right now for them. LEHRER: Well, where does this thing go, then? If the Kuwait -- both of you say the Kuwaiti government is not going to give in, these people clearly are very serious, they've already killed two people, and apparently are prepared to kill more and themselves -- is that right, Robin Wright? Are these folks that kind of people? Ms. WRIGHT: I suspect that they might. They have threatened actually to engage in some kind of suicide operation, crashing on the royal family's palace in Kuwait. In terms of the future, any number of things could happen. I think that the tack now is to try to wear them down. And to involve a group which they will mediate with, be it the PLO now, or perhaps the Algerian Government, or other neutral parties in the future, to get the other hostages off the plane. And then try to come up with some kind of compromise. The Kuwait 17 have consistently been a demand in past terrorist attacks, including the TWA hijacking in 1985, in which 17 Americans were -- 39 Americans were held for 17 days. And the group did subsequently drop that demand. LEHRER: What do you see down the line on this, Mr. Livingstone? Mr. LIVINGSTONE: We have to remember the conditions inside that aircraft, deteriorating rapidly. It's not a very pleasant place, even though they've been able to clean the toilets and they have brought food aboard at different times. The hijackers obviously have suffered already from lack of sleep, frayed nerves. The passengers, some of them are sick, There's probably stench, heat, everything else in that plane. And that is going to suggest that they're going to need some type of relief which is why I suspect they want the plane refueled and they want to take it some place else. I would see a resolution of the crisis earlier rather than later if the plane remains in Cyprus, and I think that's why the authorities are intent on keeping the plane there, and let the conditions work in our favor. LEHRER: Even if it means more hostages being killed? Because -- for those -- we ought to explain that. The kidnappers keep saying refuel the plane or we're going to kill people. The Cyprus government has refused to refuel, and they've been killing people. So -- Mr. LIVINGSTONE: Well, you precipitate action sometimes by not taking any action. If the Kuwait Government is going to remain firm -- and they're the only ones that can meet the hostage takers' demands -- then the Cyprus government has got to deal with it as best they can. If that means holding the plane there, it may precipitate action. Although I will say that recent history has demonstrated that we haven't had that many suicidal terrorists involved in these things. Most of them want to run away to fight another day. And that when we've been able to hold out for a long time and they make their point, they get their headlines and their media attention, that they sometimes -- you can work a face saving solution at that point. LEHRER: You said that these people seemed to be very well trained, better trained than some of the others. Where do they come from? Where do they get that training? Mr. LIVINGSTONE: Well, they get the training from a variety of sources. Most of it is self perpetuating right now, but they do have ties to foreign governments. Not the least of which is Iran. And they, like counterterrorist experts in the West, they study thesethings and they read in many cases the same books that we write. LEHRER: That's what I was thinking, too, we write, right? And so it's not that difficult to learn how to be a terrorist these days, is that what you're saying? Mr. LIVINGSTONE: No, you can do it by mail order. LEHRER: Okay. Well, Mr. Livingstone, Robin Wright, thank you both very much. HUNTER-GAULT: Still ahead, the Dukakis record, and Los Angeles' war on gang wars. Dukakis' Record HUNTER-GAULT: Tonight, we begin a special NewsHour series, examining the records of the presidential candidates. This week we'll have in depth reports on the three contenders for the Democratic nomination. First up is Michael Dukakis. Judy Woodruff has this report on the Massachusetts governor. Gov. MICHAEL DUKAKIS, presidential candidate: My mother and father summed up the American dream for me in eleven words: Much has been given to you and much is expected of you.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Much was expected of the young Michael Dukakis, born 54 years ago to Greek immigrant parents. They had overcome tough odds to become successful professionals. His mother as a teacher, his father a doctor. Growing up in the affluent community of Brookline, just outside Boston, Dukakis more than met their expectations in academics, in sports, in everything he did. When he arrived at Pennsylvania's Swarthmore College in 1951, he was swept away by the campaign of a candidate for mayor of Philadelphia, Joe Clarke, who was running as a reformer, against the city's corrupt old Republican political machine. Dukakis' biographer, Richard Gaines, says the Clarke campaign helped crystallize Dukakis' ideas about his own eventual role in politics. RICHARD GAINES, Dukakis biographer: Massachusetts politics, like Philadelphia politics, was dirty, had a lousy reputation. Mike Dukakis saw himself as a Joe Clarke type figure, honest beyond question, dedicated to public service, desirous of serving the people rather than the special interests, and making government a more effective agent of the people in the democracy. It was very idealistic.

WOODRUFF: By the time he reached law school at Harvard a few years later, Dukakis was absorbed with politics, according to friends like Paul Brountas. PAUL BROUNTAS, Dukakis Campaign Chairman: He was interested in local politics and state politics. Many classmates at that time were interested in what was going on in Washington, and saw themselves as future cabinet secretaries, or Secretary of State, or Supreme Court justices. And Dukakis was going to go off and become the governor of Massachusetts. WOODRUFF: In 1962, just two years after he graduated from law school, Dukakis was elected to the Massachusetts State Legislature. His reputation in the 60's was more as a reformer than as a liberal. JUDY MEREDITH, lobbyist: In those days, we sort of divided people up, in fact, we still do, as what I would call process liberals, rules reformers, people who reformed automobile insurance, opposed to sort of funeral services Humphrey style populists, lunch bucket Democrat liberal.

WOODRUFF: Judy Meredith lobbies for human services programs in Massachusetts, and agrees that reforming auto insurance was Dukakis' chief legacy in his eight years as a state representative. Massachusetts State Senate President, William Bulger, who served with Dukakis at the time, says Dukakis was very serious about everything he did, including what would become the nation's first no fault insurance plan. WILLIAM BULGER, Pres. Mass. Senate: There was an awful lot of opposition, but I think at that time people were so desperate about insurance rates that they were willing to try anything, and he had a new idea. He had a professor from Harvard who had come up with an idea, and he, the governor, now the governor, worked at seeing it put into Massachusetts law.

WOODRUFF: Bulger said while some resented Dukakis's ambitious manner, he found him unusually straightlaced. Mr. BULGER: He's a tough bird. Well disciplined. While somebody else is having a drink on the plane, a smoke on the bus, or something, he doesn't do any of those things. With a glass of milk he goes to bed. He's never seen the street lights on.

WOODRUFF: Dukakis's success with auto insurance reform helped him win the Lieutenant Governor's spot on the Democrat state ticket in 1970. The ticket lost, but Dukakis mounted a campaign for governor four years later, and this time he won. Boston Globe columnist Mike Barnicle covered the 1974 campaign. MIKE BARNICLE, Boston Globe: It was literally asking the voters, you know, Vote for Yesterday, or Vote for Tomorrow. Dukakis was tomorrow. He was running against the establishment, running against the Speaker of the House, running against a guy who epitomized, I think, in many people's minds everything that was wrong with Massachusetts politics of the past and offering them some passport to a brighter future.

WOODRUFF: The optimistic new governor was in for a nasty surprise when he took office in January 1975. RONALD FERGUSON, Harvard University: He found that the budget deficit was much worse than he thought it would be. And his major challenge for the first couple of years in office was to put the state back in good standing fiscally. That involved taking a loan from the Federal Government, it involved changes in employment compensation policy that made him unpopular.

WOODRUFF: But Dukakis's most unpopular move was to go back on a guarantee during the campaign that he would not raise taxes. After a bitter public outcry, Dukakis simply said there was no other way. Gov. DUKAKIS (May 1975 speech): Action on the bond issue and a revenue package to pay for it is absolutely essential. We will be running out of money and are now running out of money, and it's time that we acted on it.

WOODRUFF: The liberal Democrats who had formed the base of his support the year before, found yet another issue that angered them, deep cuts in human services programs also aimed at trimming the deficit he had inherited. Welfare recipient: If you really did care about people, you wouldn't be cutting welfare and unemployment. You'd be cutting the bank, you'd stop giving them interest money, you'd stop paying their debts (applause). Gov. DUKAKIS: We will have to sit down together and go through what is going to be a very difficult job of deciding just where the priorities are in terms of making additional cuts. And it's not going to be fun Ms. MEREDITH: Tough times, gotta make tough decisions, trying to do it across the board. Everybody's gotta take a little --

WOODRUFF: Human Services lobbyist Judy Meredith says Dukakis didn't seem troubled by the cuts he recommended. Ms. MEREDITH: Particularly the cuts he made in (unintelligible) relief, welfare programs, he cut the caseload from 40,000 to 20,000 people. The most vulnerable people in the state.

WOODRUFF: On top of the unpopular moves Dukakis made to get the Massachusetts budget back in balance, he imposed his natural instincts about governing, pressing for controversial causes, like overhauling the state court system. Mr. GAINES: He came to office determined to reform the government, to eliminate political patronage, eliminate political deals, eliminate the quid pro quos. Systematically he offended and alienated every special interest he could think of as he attempted to eliminate the advantages that the special interests had in Massachusetts. And he won himself a huge alliance of enemies from this.

WOODRUFF: Mike Barnicle of the Boston Globe paints a less attractive picture of Dukakis from 1975 through '78. Mr. BARNICLE: In the first term, I think just all of the natural arrogance in him just flooded to the surface. You know, the brightest little boy from Brookline High School is now governor.

WOODRUFF: Whatever Dukakis did, the majority of the voters didn't like it. Conservative businessmen came out of nowhere to embarrass him in the 1978 Democratic Party Primary, 51 to 42%. Dukakis was devastated. Mr. BROUNTUS: I think that was probably the first time that Mike Dukakis did not succeed at what he sought to accomplish. I don't know of any incident of failure, but that to him was a failure. And it was a public failure.

WOODRUFF: Richard Gaines says Dukakis was affected by losing more than most politicians would be. Mr. GAINES: I think his entire value system was destroyed before his eyes. Every assumption that he had held about public service and how a political leader related to the public had been shattered, and it was because he was such an idealist and had such a narrow and unsophisticated view of the world.

WOODRUFF: An invitation to teach from Harvard's Kennedy School of Government gave Dukakis a place to lick his wounds, and to plan his political comeback. But first he had to soak in the lessons of his defeat in 1978. Mr. GAINES: He learned that it was necessary to put together a political coalition, serve that coalition, communicate with that coalition. He learned what leadership was. He learned that the assumption that the people will recognize good work was foolish. Ms. MEREDITH: I was one of the main people called in, a personal meeting, to say I made some mistakes, I wished I had talked to people more, and gotten more input. I would like your support. I'm going to run again. I bet he met with a thousand people. He certainly had at least 35 task forces on every conceivable issue.

WOODRUFF: People who watched Dukakis closely say he completely overhauled his approach to politics. Boston Globe columnist Mike Barnicle says the 1982 campaign against conservative governor Ed King was very different from the one four years earlier. Mr. BARNICLE: He returns, campaigns against a sitting governor, who is an absolute neanderthal. I mean, it was like running against Fred Flintstone. And he wins. Wins with the feeling and the sense within him that there was no deal. Michael Dukakis will not cut the second time around in order to maintain his majority. He makes the deal. He gets along with them. But they get along with them. His legislation is passed, he becomes an incredibly effective politician/governor. Because he doesn't want to lose.

WOODRUFF: This time, Dukakis vowed to work with everybody. Mr. BROUNTAS: He had problems with legislation his first administration. I don't believe that he would leave the governor's office, walk down the hall to see the president of the Senate and talk to him and call me about it. He does that now.

WOODRUFF: Another change in the new Dukakis was his willingness to deal with the business community. JOHN CULLINANE, Culinet Software: There was pretty much an anathema between Gov. Dukakis and business in the first administration. And I don't think that Michael Dukakis, you know, really understood or appreciated the business of the community --

WOODRUFF: John Cullinane, the head of a computer soft wear company, decided to support Dukakis anyway. Mr. CULLINANE: He's established a good rapport with a number of business leaders, both in the (unintelligible) council and the computer soft wear group and others. So he feels more comfortable with them now and understands their positions better than he did in the past.

WOODRUFF: But critics say Dukakis has never been concerned enough about the impact of taxes on the business climate. They point to the high taxes enacted during his first term. HOWARD FOLEY, Mass. Hi Tech Council: We've been called Taxachusetts for many years. Everybody knew about our property tax being the second highest in the country, and everybody said, yeah, we have to fix it. No one really did.

WOODRUFF: Howard Foley is the Director of a coalition of computer companies called the Massachusetts High Tech Council. They and other anti tax groups say they fought successfully to lower taxes in Dukakis's later terms. And now he is taking credit for it. BARBARA ANDERSON, Citizens for Limited Taxation: Now you're hearing and seeing what he feels he should say. But essentially I think underneath he is still the same person who would raise taxes until the cows came home, as we say. Mr. FOLEY: He's government expansionist, and we're generally government minimalists. Fortunately, the legislature and the people of Massachusetts, through the initiative petition process, have prevailed in many of these areas, and consequently our economy's a heck of a lot better than it would have been had the Dukakis policies been implemented.

WOODRUFF: Foley gives Dukakis no credit at all for the so called Massachusetts Miracle. The economic growth and low unemployment rate his state has enjoyed since the mid 1970's. Analysts who have studied Massachusetts' economic performance, say Dukakis helped by putting the state on a sound fiscal footing, but for the most part, they say, the Massachusetts miracle was out of Dukakis's hands. Harvard economist Ronald Ferguson. Mr. FERGUSON: What really turned the state's economy around was the world decided they wanted to buy more of the things that Massachusetts had to sell. Dukakis had almost nothing to do with that.

WOODRUFF: That is a different story from what's being told by Dukakis's campaign commercials. [Dukakis commercial] VOICE: The one presidential candidate who took on the dying economy and helped turn it into a booming international competitor: Mike Dukakis, a president who could deal with tough times and win. Because he already has.

WOODRUFF: Dr. James Howell, the chief economist at the Bank of Boston, says there's very little any governor can do to boost economic development in his state. JAMES HOWELL, Bank of Boston: They don't get on the playing field. The business community gets on the playing field, when it puts capital risk and makes decisions on products yet untested. A good governor cheering on the sidelines can do a lot. And Mike Dukakis from time to time has done a fair amount of cheering. He sees himself as a quarterback, though, and that ain't so.

WOODRUFF: Businessman John Cullinane, however, says that Dukakis has helped create the sort of atmosphere in Massachusetts that attracts business investment. Mr. CULLINANE: Massachusetts attracts, you know, because of the atmosphere, the quality of life, the kinds of support from environmental issues and others that Gov. Dukakis's administration has supported. In addition to the business kinds of issues that attracts a kind of people that we have to hire in order to be successful. Gov. DUKAKIS We have more jobs and people have filled them. We've got a moving economy and I'm proud of that. And I hope I can bring that same kind of boom to El Paso, to West Texas. (unintelligible) states all over this country.

WOODRUFF: But Harvard economist Ron Ferguson says if Dukakis is suggesting he could make the Massachusetts Miracle happen elsewhere, he is misleading voters. Mr. FERGUSON: Other states don't have M. I. T. M. I. T. is a major incubator of new ideas. The state has a business services sector, a health services sector that's unrivaled. And more than two or three other places in the world. Other states can't duplicate that. There's nothing that state policy in other states can do to foster anywhere near the economic base that Massachusetts has.

WOODRUFF: If Dukakis has not given credit for all the good things that have happened to the business community in Massachusetts, he's also criticized for not paying enough attention to poor people. Mr. BARNICLE: I think he's a product of an environment where if you couldn't make it on your own, there was something wrong with you. Ms. MEREDITH: He doesn't believe you solve social problems by throwing money at them. There is not a gut or a passionate commitment to people who are less fortunate than ourselves. Mr. BROUNTAS: Well, I think that's wrong. I think over the last nine years that he has served as governor, he has been responsible for a number of very important social welfare programs. I remember the day that he returned to the governor's office. He talked about the homeless. But he didn't just talk about it, he did something about it. Gov. DUKAKIS: I'm going to convene an emergency meeting of the new cabinet, the Senate President, the Speaker of the House, nonprofit organizations, civic and religious leaders and representatives of the coalition for the homeless. We will begin immediately to put together a state wide effort which will provide the necessities of life to those in desperate need.

WOODRUFF: The program that earned Dukakis national attention, even before he ran for President, was his plan to entice Massachusetts welfare recipients off the welfare rolls and into the work force, with a state sponsored employment and training program. Since 1983, 44,000 welfare recipients have been through the so called E. T. program, one third of the total state welfare burden. And most of them appear to be keeping their jobs. RUBY SAMPSON, surgical assistant: The old movie is dead. A new movie exists, and I am proud, I am glad E. T. was there to help me off, because I couldn't find a way out. Gov. DUKAKIS: There's an old Chinese proverb that I believe in as deeply as I believe in anything. ''Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. '' Mr. GAINES: He was a bootstrapper, and if you show him that you want to get to your knees, he will help you to your feet. He came back to office in 1983, dedicated to seeing that the economic pie continued to grow larger so that he was leading a government that was enjoying the politics of plenty.

WOODRUFF: Observers give Dukakis creditfor saving Massachusetts money with his employment and training program. But they point out it could work only in economically prosperous areas where plenty of new entry level jobs are being created. Longtime Dukakis friend, and now his campaign chairman, Paul Brountas, says he thinks it's the way Dukakis talks that gives people the idea he lacks compassion. Mr. BROUNTAS: He talks fast, he thinks fast. He works fast, he goes fast. And sometimes that message gets lost. I think he's as compassionate, as caring as any person in public life today.

WOODRUFF: Dukakis biographer Richard Gaines sees the candidate differently. Mr. GAINES: He has many attributes of a classic liberal. He believes in enlightenment, he believes in education. However, he is not a poor person's candidate. He is not a New Deal liberal. He was insulated from the depression. He has always had middle class environments around him. He is for the clerks and the little people, he is a reformer and his enemies are the special interests. Whoever's got their hooks into the government.

WOODRUFF: Critics, however, see a rigidity in Dukakis that they find disturbing. Mr. BARNICLE: The cocksureness that we were talking about, that natural arrogance that comes with the fact that he's a very smart guy, much smarter than anybody that he's working with -- I think that is a part of who he is, this inability to say, I might be wrong about this. Mr. HOWELL: Mike Dukakis never had a wishy thought in his whole mind. It's a black and white. I'd like to have a little bit more gray in there.

WOODRUFF: State Senate President William Bulger takes a more charitable view. Mr. BULGER: I think part of the paradox of Michael Dukakis is this: that he does believe in himself, and he does have some very firm understanding of what the right course is, and yet he's always willing to learn.

WOODRUFF: But even Dukakis's closest friends concede it's not easy to get him to change his mind. Mr. BROUNTAS: You don't walk in and tell Mike Dukakis that he's wrong. He's going to ask you ten questions why I should change. And I have seen him take a position and change in the last six or eight years on a number of occasions. He'll say, You know, you're right. But you've got to have a good argument.

WOODRUFF: The bottom line on Dukakis, says columnist Mike Barnicle, is that he doesn't have that indefinable quality called soul. Mr. BARNICLE: He's an accountant. He's a tough, honest, smart, incredibly persevering accountant.

WOODRUFF: Richard Gaines, on the other hand, defends Dukakis. He says the reason people on both sides of the political spectrum criticize Dukakis is that he has no predictable set of political beliefs. Mr. GAINES: He does not believe in ideology. He rejects any notion of left/right politics. He absolutely rejects it. The left/right, from Dukakis's point of view, is vestigial phraseology from the New Deal, which he thinks is not relevant to today's problems. He looks at things from a good/bad, competent/incompetent point of view. His access is vertical, not horizontal.

WOODRUFF: An update. Since the reporting was done for this story, Dukakis has again come under fire in Massachusetts over his handling of the state budget. Facing a revenue slowdown, Dukakis aides last week announced that they were cutting some state spending this year, an unprecedented $230 million, almost half of it from human services programs. Critics say the governor is going to drastic lengths to avoid either a deficit or a tax increase. All because of his political ambitions. Dukakis's administration officials denied the charges and say the spending cuts should be painless. Jim? LEHRER: Tomorrow night we will profile the record of Democratic candidate Jesse Jackson. Gang Wars HUNTER-GAULT: Finally tonight, drug gangs. Once upon a time, street gangs fought each other for territory. Today, youth gangs are now fighting a deadly war of drugs, trafficking and selling cocaine and attacking each other on city streets across the country. Los Angeles in particular has been plagued by drug gang violence. This past weekend, the city's police department fought back, with a massive two day sweep of L. A. 's streets. We'll talk to one of the police officials in charge of the crackdown in a moment. But first, this report from Jeffrey Kaye of Public Station KCET in Los Angeles.

JEFFREY KAYE: Despite a massive police presence on the streets of Los Angeles over the weekend, three people lost their lives in what authorities say was gang related violence. So far this year, there have been around 40 such killings in the L. A. area. Last year, gang violence reached an all time high, and accounted for 387 murders. The killings prompted grandscale police patrols of gang areas. Police went out in force beginning February 26. But when the shootings continued, L. A. 's police chief Daryl Gates last week ordered dramatic sweeps of 1000 officers a night. DARYL GATES, L. A. Chief of Police: It's what we call a sweep, but it really is once again the hammer. Hammering away at gang activities, hammering away at those little characters that are causing all this trouble, and as I said before, if it goes away, we'll go away. But as long as it's out there, as long as people are being intimidated, as long as people are fearful to be on the streets, we're going to be there.

KAYE: This past weekend, L. A. police officers arrested over 1300 suspects on a variety of charges. Operating out of a temporary command post at the L. S. Coliseum, the site of the 1984 Olympic Games, the police task force kept special lookout for weapons and drugs. Police are fielding a virtual army. But law enforcement officials are outnumbered by Los Angeles gang members, who are believed to number as many as 70,000. Many of the gangs have deadly fire power, automatic and semiautomatic weapons. The guns are often used in disputes over drug territories. Police believe the drugs, especially highly addictive rock cocaine, are fueling the gang crisis. ROBERT RIFKIN, L. A. County Deputy Sheriff: Cocaine and drugs are destroying this country. And it's going to get worse. KAYE: Why is it going to get worse? Dep. RIFKIN: Because it's out of control. We are out of control. GIRL on STREET: More killings and it's over money and it's not over territory no more. Now it's over, you know, who I can sell the most drugs to.

KAYE: Counselors who work with gangs believe that massive police deployment is only part of a solution. Leon Watkins would like to see the same money used for services in a community of poverty and high unemployment. LEON WATKINS, Youth Gang Counselor: Money that's been put into gang violence, a lot of them going (unintelligible), they can't get jobs. But you belong to a gang, and that gang's out making money, doing whatever they do, you're going to forget about to read and write. You understand? I can go out and make me some money, and I want a piece of the American dream. I want a piece of the pie. And this is an easy way for me to get it.

KAYE: It's uncertain how long the police sweeps will continue, given their high costs. But many political figures want an even larger police presence, and are calling on the California governor to send in the National Guard. HUNTER-GAULT: Joining us now is the man who led the weekend crackdown on gangs, Assistant Chief of Police for the city of Los Angeles, Robert Vernon. Chief Vernon, how would you describe what happened this weekend? ROBERT VERNON, Los Angeles Police Department: Charlayne, we put out a large task force of over 1000 officers, and we asked them to do two things. Number one, get real tough with the gang members, and whatever we can do legally and professionally, really get on them. And number two, reassure the 95% citizens of our city that are good people, that we are there on their side to help them and support them. So we really went out with two separate objectives, although we think they do fit together rather nicely. And we were effective. We put a lot of people in jail, and the murders are going down. When we started this year, we were averaging about 25 to 26 murders a month, gang murders, that is. And the month of March we only had 16. That's still 16 too many, but that's a 38% decrease from where it was. So we're being effective. HUNTER-GAULT: Of those 1600 people you arrested, how many of them are people who should have been arrested? I mean for gang activities. Mr. VERNON: Charlayne, about 70% of those that we've arrested in his hammer task force, since we started in February, are gang members. The others, of course we could not overlook. For instance, it's not unusual for the officers to come upon a drunk driver who is equally as dangerous to the community, and they must take action. So we can't overlook those. But the people that are out there that just happen to be out there and may be involved in a technical violation, maybe a vehicle code violation, we're letting them go. We're saying We're here to enforce against the gangs. We're here to support you. And so many people are released on technical violations, but not gang members. HUNTER-GAULT: But under what circumstances do you arrest people? I mean -- Mr. VERNON: We arrest people if they're in possession of weapons, if they're in possession of narcotics, if their car isn't up to code. We impounded, for instance, this weekend, 37 -- I'm sorry, 285 cars, seized over 37 guns. So they have to be violations of the law. We're not, as the saying goes on the street, we're not rousting people. We're very professionally and very legally going about this job of coming down hard on the gang members. HUNTER-GAULT: But you're able to get more people in this net because you have more officers on the street involved in making the arrest. Is that the key to it? Mr. VERNON: That's the key to it. And with that presence, with that very large presence, we're able to really take the kind of action that we need to take. And once again, we're being effective. HUNTER-GAULT: What are you doing with the people you're arresting who are gang members? What's happening with those people? Mr. VERNON: The difference is that we're booking them all. All the people we arrest we're booking them into our jail system. And then we're telling the prosecutors we don't want any plea bargaining as far as gang members are concerned, or any kind of conditional release or probationary thing. We want them to get the maximum penalty. And the criminal justice system here is backing us. The prosecutor, the judges are saying we're with you. Because the community is with us. HUNTER-GAULT: But I've also read that the criminal justice system is overcrowded and overloaded. I mean, if you keep arresting people with this rate, what are you going to do with them? Mr. VERNON: Well, the sheriff is having to release certain people, but he's not releasing gang members. He's releasing perhaps shoplifters and those kinds of folks that are in jail, about ready to get out and maybe he'll release them two or three days early. But the gang members are not being released. We're going for maximum penalty on them. HUNTER-GAULT: This effort is costing you -- I read something like $150,000 a day in overtime. The increased man power that you're putting into it. How long can you sustain that kind of effort? Mr. VERNON: Our elected officials here in Los Angeles, our City Council and the Mayor have told us, You keep on doing what you're doing, and we'll support you. They're getting us the support. And we've never seen the kind of public support we're getting. They're literally calling us on the 911 emergency lines to tell us they're supporting us. I was out in the field Friday night, and my assistants and I made arrest of a few people, and as the cars were driving by us, they were rolling down their windows, they were shouting out the windows, Right on, LAPD. Take those gang bangers to jail. So the support is incredible. I don't know of any negative reaction of people that live in the city. Now, we've gotten a few letters from people outside Santa Barbara, San Diego, various places, saying, you know, You're getting tough, and you might be sweeping some innocent people up in your net. But not the people in L. A. The people in L. A. are saying, Keep on doing it, LAPD, we're with you. HUNTER-GAULT: As Jeffrey Kaye reported in his report a few minutes ago, 387 people were killed last year, gangs have more than doubled in the last five years. Why did you take so -- how did it get to this point before you could launch an effort like this? I mean -- Mr. VERNON: We actually launched a task force, most of 1987, of over 100 officers in what we call our crime task force, and deployed them in South Central Los Angeles. What you're seeing, Charlayne, is a gradual increase, an escalation of that force, because we don't seem to be able to get control of it. And so we're going to continue putting more resources and quite frankly, according to what my boss Chief Gates has said, if the thousands person doesn't work, we're going to go for even greater strength. So we're going to continue to escalate until we can get control of this. HUNTER-GAULT: What about -- one of the gentlemen said in the piece said that this situation is just going to get worse. The drug supplies are limitless, the police force is outgunned, outmanned. And has many resources than the police forces. What -- how do you respond to that? Mr. VERNON: I think the root cause here is the emphasis of the important role of parenting. I really think we need to get back to that. So we need to look at the long term solutions, as well as the short term solution. I realize that we in law enforcement are really dealing with the symptom and not the real issue. However, the police department here in Los Angeles under my boss's direction have instituted a program called DARE, Drug Abuse Resistance Education. That spreading nationwide. This program is very unique in that we put officers full time in schools to teach the elementary level school children such issues as self image, long term goal orientation, what the effect ofpeer group pressure has on you, and how to cope with it. And that has a two pronged approach. We frankly originally designed this program to deal with drug abuse. But we find the same causes that cause children to abuse drugs also encourage them to join gangs. And so we're having that program deal with both of these issues. And we've been tracking the children that were in the original study program three years ago, and they are doing much better in coping with this, and refusing drugs and gang membership than the kids who were not exposed that first year. This year all of our elementary schools in Los Angeles have police officers in there teaching these important values. HUNTER-GAULT: But what about what Leon Watkins said to Jeffrey Kaye, that here's a law enforcement remedy that's attempting to -- if you're trying to deal with something that is really a social and economic problem -- now, I know you've just addressed part of that. But he talks about a lack of jobs and how the lucrative involvement in gang drugs and so on is much more attractive to these kids who have no skills, no jobs, essentially no hope. I mean, how do you interrupt that kind of cycle? Mr. VERNON: Well, I see it really being a long term solution and a short term solution. I see law enforcement's role as primarily the short term solution. We just can't stand by when we have a man as one did pull up next to a street corner just a little over a week ago, come out with a carbine and mow down ten people, including a four year old child that was shot three times. We can't stand by and say let's talk about long term jobs and all. We've got to take immediate action on something like that. But I agree with you that many other issues have to be addressed. And once again, not the least of which is this issue of parenting. The job of parenting has been emasculated in the United States. You're considered a nothing if you're a parent. I think that may be the most important role we all have as adults. And that is bringing younger people into the role that they really should occupy as productive, happy members of our society. HUNTER-GAULT: Given the nature of the problem and the number of murders, including three just this weekend, with your dragnet out there, how long do you think this hammer thing is going to have to be out there before you can make a real dent in the problem? Mr. VERNON: Until we win. Until we get this under control. And let me just give you another quick statistic. If you take a look at March of '87, there were 24 murders. March of this year, there were 16. That's a 33% decrease. We're just comparing month with month. And if you look at December, 26. February 19. March, 16. The murders are going down. We are getting control. A crime, where we've had this task force centered really in South Central Los Angeles, we have a 10% decrease in what is referred to in law enforcement as (unintelligible) crime. In the rest of the city we only have a 3% decrease, and really South Central L. A. is carrying the rest of the city for that decrease. So this task force, although I agree with you, it's a bandaid, it's not addressing the root problem, it is working as far as keeping the blood from flowing from this open wound. We are stopping the blood flow. HUNTER-GAULT: Well, Chief Vernon, good luck to you in your future efforts. Perhaps we'll come back and take a look later. Thank you for being with us. Recap LEHRER: Again, the major stories of this Monday. The Kuwaiti Airliner hijackers killed another passenger. The man's body was dumped onto the tarmac in Cyprus where the plane remains, with no break in the impasse in sight. President Reagan praised the deal to withdraw 115,000 Soviet troops from Afghanistan, and said he will send Secretary of State Shultz to Geneva Thursday for the signing. And in Pakistan, the death toll in yesterday's munitions explosion rose to 93. Good night, Charlayne. HUNTER-GAULT: Good night, Jim. That's our NewsHour for tonight. We'll be back tomorrow. I'm Charlayne Hunter Gault. Thank you and good night.