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MR. MacNeil: Good evening. Leading the news this Wednesday, Pres. Bush said the Soviet agreement on troop cuts in Europe was an important breakthrough, Soviet Pres. Gorbachev condemned ethnic riots in Tadzhikistan, saying the country's destiny was at stake, and Nelson Mandela offered compromise with South Africa's white government. We'll have the details in our News Summary in a moment. Roger Mudd is in Washington tonight. Roger.
MR. MUDD: After the News Summary, we go first to the German reunification [FOCUS - ONE GERMANY] story and we talk with West German Amb. Jurgen Ruhfus and East German political analyst Hans- Joachim Giessmann. Next we look at health claims for food products [FOCUS - HEALTH FOOD?] with an Elizabeth Brackett report on the oat bran controversy and a News Maker interview [NEWS MAKER] interview with Louis Sullivan, Sec. of Health & Human Services, and finally Charlayne Hunter-Gault marks black history month in a conversation with [SERIES - BLACK HISTORY MONTH] dancer Judith Jamison.NEWS SUMMARY
MR. MacNeil: Pres. Bush said today he was elated that his proposal for troop cuts in Europe had been accepted by the Soviet Union. He said it would bring a sense of stability to the rapidly changing political situation in Europe. Mr. Bush told reporters at the White House he was optimistic about reaching a conventional forces agreement known as the CFE Treaty. He said he was particularly pleased that the Soviets had dropped their demand for equal troop levels on each side.
PRES. BUSH: The United States and the Soviet Union each will station no more than 195,000 troops in the central zone in Europe and this will be the overall ceiling for Soviet troops stationed on foreign territory in Europe. The U.S. will be permitted to station the additional 30,000 troops in Europe outside the central zone. Now this is an important breakthrough which removes the major obstacle to the early conclusion of a CFE Treaty and it also establishes the principle that U.S. forces in Europe are not to be treated as equivalent to Soviet forces in Eastern Europe.
MR. MacNeil: Mr. Bush also praised the agreement reached yesterday for talks on German reunification. He said the drive toward German unity had moved faster than he expected.
MR. MUDD: Ethnic violence in the Soviet Republic of Tadzhikistan continued for a third straight day today. The only information coming out of the predominantly Moslem republic is from Soviet journalists. Soviet troops again patrolled the streets in the capital city of Dushan Bay. Muslim protesters there are calling for the deportation of Christian-Armenian refugees from Azerbaijan. The tensions began Monday following rumors which turned out to be false that thousands of the Armenians were being given preference for new housing. There were reports that troops shot at demonstrators today, killing at least eight people. Soviet Leader Gorbachev gave his first reaction to the violence in Tadzhikistan during an address to the Soviet parliament today and he was furious. He said the country's destiny and the safety of our citizens is at stake. "We must do everything," he said, "to put out the fire." On another issue, Mr. Gorbachev made a strong plea to the Soviet parliament to increase the power of the presidency. We have a report narrated by Tom Brown of Worldwide Television News.
MR. BROWN: Gorbachev appealed to members of the Supreme Soviet for a Western style presidential system. After hours of debate on proposing to call an emergency session of the Congress of People's Deputies, which has the powers to broaden the President's role, Gorbachev took the floor. He launched a scathing attack on his critics, claiming democracy will perish if they don't act quickly, and he added the victims from this blast will be those who wanted to go back to the government's former repressive policies. But conservative elements within the national legislature fear Gorbachev's proposed changes would weaken the power of the Communist Party apparatus. The Soviet leader responded by saying he was amazed and upset that members of the Supreme Soviet thought he was up to something sneaky. He said he was talking about presidential powers for whoever was president and that the fate of the country is at stake if the problem remained unsolved.
MR. MUDD: Despite Gorbachev's plea, parliament delayed a vote on convening a meeting of its parent body, the Congress of People's Deputies, to make the necessary constitutional changes.
MR. MacNeil: In Washington, White House Spokesman Marlin Fitzwater condemned yesterday's kidnapping of two Americans in Colombia. The two men were abducted by a leftist guerrilla group which said it was protesting U.S. policy in Colombia. There were reports that one of the men was released, but Fitzwater said the U.S. believes those reports are inaccurate. Pres. Bush travels to Colombia tomorrow for a four nation drug summit with the leaders of Colombia, Bolivia and Peru.
MR. MUDD: Ninety-one people died in a plane crash today in Southern India. The Indian Airlines jet was on final approach to Bangalore Airport following a one hour flight from Bombay. The plane crashed 50 yards short of the runway. One hundred forty-six passengers were on board. The Airbus 320 aircraft had been on service only two months. The cause of today's crash is under investigation.
MR. MacNeil: Leaders of South Africa's main anti-apartheid group, the African National Congress, began a three day meeting today at their headquarters in Lusaka, Zambia. They said they'll discuss what role Nelson Mandela should play in the organization as well as what strategy to pursue with the DeKlerk government. Mandela is expected to visit Lusaka in the near future, but no date has been set. Mandela gave a series of interviews today. He spoke of his willingness to compromise with the government on the details of a post-apartheid system. When asked if the African National Congress would ever settle for anything less than one man/one vote, Mandela responded, "Compromises must be made in respect to every issue as long as that compromise is in the interest not only of one population group, but the country as a whole. That's our News Summary. Now it's on to German reunification, oat bran and the health food claims and dance legend Judith Jamison. FOCUS - ONE GERMANY
MR. MUDD: Our lead focus tonight is on the giant steps towards German unification being taken by East and West Germany and by the United States, The Soviet Union, Britain and France. Yesterday at an East West conference in Ottawa, Canada the two Germanies and the four World War II allies agreed to a formula for unification talks to move forward. And today in Bonn, West Germany meetings ended between West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl and East German Premier Hans Modrow on steps toward reunification especially on the financial front. We have a back grounder on the latest developments beginning with last nights meeting in Ottawa from Nik Gowing of Independent Television News.
MR. GOWING: Europe's military powers from East and West had gathered to finalize an unprecedented agreement legitimizing airborne spying on each others troops.
MINISTER CLARK: And I am very gratified to announce --
MR. GOWING: Canadian Foreign Minister Joe clark announced a deal on future East, West troop levels in Europe. Then word emerged of an agreement first between the two Foreign MInisters of West and East Germany and then among the four Allied Powers in Germany on the way forward to a united German State. The six had agreed on a negotiating process to known as 2 plus 4. Nothing will happen before March 18th, the East German election. Immediately after that the two the West German Government and the newly democratically elected East German Government will start meeting to hammer out details of unification. The four World War II allies who still have residual powers in Germany will join the discussions at a time not yet agreed. They will discuss security and external issues. They won't though finalize a peace treaty. Then next autumn probably in November the 35 nation conference on security and cooperation will meet to formalize an agreement on Europe's future political shape. In Ottawa West German Foreign Minister Genscher gave his colleagues two significant guarantees.
HANS-DIETRICH GENSCHER, West German Foreign Minister: [Speaking through Interpreter] We seek a European Germany not a German Europe. We do not have territorial claims against any of our neighbors.
MR. GOWING: And today on his way back to Germany Herr Genscher called in on Mrs. Thatcher to repeat those assurances and to detail West Germany's view of the unfolding German unification drama. But elsewhere Poland's Solidarity Prime Minister on a three day visit to London threw an unexpected spanner in to the German unification process. He insisted that as Germany's Eastern neighbor Poland must have a seat at the 2 plus 4 negotiations making them 2 plus 5.
TADEUSZ MAZOWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister: [Speaking through Interpreter] But obviously we want to be present wherever the question of the security of Germany's neighbors will be discussed. And our stand is that our security matters can not be settled by proxy for us. We must be present in it.
MR. GOWING: Poland's anxiety is over its border with Germany along the Oda and Nica Rivers. The border was set during the East West carve up of Central Europe after World War II. Before 1939 Germany had extended further east with a pocket deep inside Polish territory beyond the Free Port of Danzig now Gadansk. Poland too extended eastward deep into what is now Soviet territory. The new Solidarity Lead government fears that a unified Germany might use its new power to muscle to force the return of West Poland to Germany and with it large Polish cities. The border issue was raised between Chancellor Kohl and East German Prime Minister Modrow in Bonn yesterday. Herr Modrow said that line stood. East Germans have no territorial ambitions. Chancellor Kohl who personally accepts the line says the issue will be settled by the German Parliament. But from Bonn today the message to Poland from Senior Policy in the Christian Democrat Government was clear.
MICHAELA GEIGER, Christian Democrat, Foreign Affairs Committee: I would say to the Polish Minister, President that he can be sure that the Polish borders are safe. We don't want to change any borders.
MR. GOWING: But with electorial pressures on Chancellor Kohl from right wing and nationalist groups like the Republicans the border issue is likely to simmer unresolved for some time. Right wingers want the Chancellor to honor his constitutional obligation to reclaim all German territory. Few West German politicians believe that is a realistic options. Now to East and West German views on the movement toward reunification. Jurgen Ruhfus is West Germany's Ambassador to the United States and Hans-Joachim Geiesmann is a Senior Researcher at the Institute for International Politics and Economics in East Berlin. He is currently a Visiting Fellow at The Institute for East West Security Studies in New York. Mr. Ambassador we just heard the Polish Officials expressing concern over the sanctity of their border with a newly emerging Germany and they said they want to be part of the negotiations. What would your message be to alay Polish fears on that border?
JURGEN RUHFUS, Ambassador, West Germany: We know about the Polish fears and I think that we have said as far as the Federal Republic of Germany is concerned we have signed the Treaty with Poland. We have made it very clear that neither now or in the future will we have any territorial claims visa vie Poland. That is the present border is valid, it is the valid border of Poland and we just heard that GDR, East Germany has signed a similar contract with Poland. Thus I could imagine that once there is a united German Government or Parliament that this will be expressed and as has been said by our Parliament and by our Government the Polish people and the Polish Government can be assured on the issue of the Frontier.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Geiessmann in New York do you think those assurances are sufficient to reassure the Poles about the sanctity of their borders on the River.
HANS-JOACHIM GIESSMANN, Political Analyst, East Germany: I think the Polish people have the right to get their national interests respected in whatever European agreement on Germany will be achieved. I would agree with Amb. Ruhfus that the present treaties which have been concluded should and will not be violated by any future Government of Germany. But the signals which have been sent in the last weeks within the Federal Republic of Germany were to a certain degree a source for concern in Poland and that is why I would appreciate if both German Prime Ministers or the 4 plus 2 would send a clear signal at the very outsend on the Polish issue.
MR. MUDD: But it sound the Poles want it not to be 2 plus 4 but 2 plus 5.
AMB. RUFHUS: May I go first?
MR. MUDD: Yes.
AMB. RUFHUS: The signals from the Federal Republic of Germany. I think that Minister Genscher has spoken very clearly at the United Nations that the Poles can be reassured and that there is not going to be present or future claims and I think these words have been endorsed by afull majority of the Federal Parliament. There have been no votes against, there have been few abstentions. Thus it has the full backing of the whole Parliament of the Federal Republic of Germany. As to the participation, I think, it is makes good sense what has been arrived at in Ottawa. That it is the two German Governments that they sit down and work out their ideas and that then will be presented to the four powers which have responsibility for Germany. But I think that we take the concern of the Polish people seriously and I think that we have to find other ways by confirming our view and to make sure that there is no reason is for concern on the Polish side.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Giessmann with all euphoria coming out of Bonn, coming out of Ottawa, coming out of Washington do you think the momentum for reunification is out of control and is there a possibility that events are moving to fast.
MR. GIESSMANN: I think the danger exists although I would assess the agreement on the 4 plus 2 to formulate an agenda for negotiations on unification will give us a sort of a guarantee of first having Germany done with unification entered in a broader European frame work and on the other hand to keep the process under control. On the other hand we have in Eastern Germany, the German Democratic Republic at the moment a very difficult situation, politically as well as in economic terms. Politically as it was mentioned in the news the power is executed by a Government which does not have the sort of legitimacy. So the negotiations were postponed until the day after the election in March.
MR. MUDD: March 18th yes.
MR. GIESSMANN: March 18th that is true. So the power to a certain degree lies on the floor and the public has picked it up and put a lot of political pressure on the Government. On the other hand one should not forget the deteriorating economic situation in the GDR which is going from bad to worse every day.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Ambassador do you like speed at which things are moving?
AMB. RUFHUS: The speed is happening. If you recall in November and December we were still speaking about a step by step approach but indeed as my colleague from East Germany just said things have deteriorated, the speed had to pick up and things had to be taken, steps had to be taken. This is why we proposed to have these talks on monetary union and economic union simply because the number coming over to West Germany has grown considerably and continued all over January and February. Let me add to the talks. I think that in Ottawa it was forward 2 and 4 that is to say the two German Governments should then discuss with the four powers and I think that this was taken in full attention because indeed the first steps should allow the two German Governments sit together and work out their ideas and discuss it with the other four. So I think that it is a valid point which is reflected in the Communique of Ottawa.
MR. MUDD: Let me bring up the question of NATO Mr. Giessmann and the question of whether the new Germany will be NATO, neutral or neither? Is that the main obstacle remaining?
MR. GIESSMANN: The issue is very difficult, I mean, we as a matter of fact as was mentioned again in the news Mr. Genscher said that we want to have a European Germany and not a German Europe referring to a saying by Thomas Mann. I think the necessity now is to get future lasting guarantees for having the unified Germany anchored with in the European process. That is why although the Government in the GDR is opting for neutrality I wouldn't agree with that concept. I think that it is extremely necessary to have the unified Germany firmly anchored with the broader European political frame work and that is why I would support the idea to strengthen and to enhance Pan European Institutions which could lead to a broader European infrastructure cooperation.
MR. MUDD: What about the NATO issue Mr. Ambassador?
AMB. RUFHUS: Well I think as far as the Federal Republic of Germany is concerned I think that we have made it clear we remain committed, we remain a partner of NATO. But of course we see that we have to take in to consideration the security interests of our neighbors, of the Eastern European Countries and in particular the Soviet Union. Thus it is going to be an important part and one element which has been suggested and emphasized from our side is that the two German States go together. If other things happen inside the Warsaw Pact NATO should not extend its territory further toward the Soviet Union, further East.
MR. MUDD: You mean that NATO troops would be prohibited from the old East German Territory?
AMB. RUFHUS: Yes basically the NATO line should not be extended beyond its present reach and that would have reprecutions too for the integrated NATO troops indeed.
MR. MUDD: Do you
MR. Ambassador foresee in a unified Germany that all foreign troops would be removed from the new German Country.
AMB. RUFHUS: From East Germany?
MR. MUDD: From both.
AMB. RUFHUS: No I think that as far as the Federal Republic of Germany is concerned we count on continued presence. I think we work for results in Vienna on the conventional arms reduction and this is why it is so important that there has been this break through on the 195,000. We can get the can get the balance down and we do hope very much that we can conclude the present one in Vienna this year and come to the next round next year so that further reductions can be made. I think that this is the solution that we try to envisage.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Giessmann what accounts for President Gorbachev's 180 degree turn on the troop reduction issue. A week ago he was not agreeing to what he agreed to yesterday. What was the pressure on him? What is the pressure on him to do that?
MR. GIESSMANN: Well it is difficult to assess here from New York what the pressure looks like in the Soviet Union but I think the basic idea probably behind is not to let the process break. I think it is very necessary now after having the political kick off of talks between East and West the 4 and 2 on German Unification, I think that there should be no bad impact of that on the arms control issue and it was made quite clear in Ottawa by both the Warsaw Treaty members and NATO members to push ahead the process of arms control and I would see another requirement, of course, to reshape proposals for Vienna too in order to help arms control could bring about not only deeper force reductions and deeper reductions of weapons on both sides but could help create a new peace order in Europe.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Giessmann let me bring up the question of the monetary reunification also announced yesterday the D mark would supplant the E mark in the unified Germany. Did East Germany get taken to the cleaners in that arrangement? What is the advantage to East Germany in that?
MR. GIESSMANN: As I got the news of that from home my impression is that the delegation was a bit disappointed by the results especially since the round table in Berlin has favored sort of a Solidarity contribution from the West which was denied by the Government of the Federal Republic so far. On the other hand it is almost clear that an arrangement on monetary relations between both parts, between both States is extremely urgent and necessary to elaborate it. That is what I think the decision to create a Commission which is now doing its homework on that issue was a big step forward.
MR. MUDD: Thank you, thank you very much Ambassador Ruhfus and Mr. Giessmann in New York. Robin.
MR. MacNeil: Still ahead on the Newshour the oatbran wars and health food claims and black dancer choreographer Judith Jamison. FOCUS - HEALTH FOOD?
MR. MacNeil: Next tonight the oat bran wars and other health food claims. This week the government proposed broad new regulations that would stop many of the health claims now made on food packages. We'll hear from the Secretary of Health & Human Services, Dr. Louis Sullivan. First we focus on the controversy over health claims for oat bran and the Quaker Oats Company. Elizabeth Brackett has our report.
JOHNNY CARSON: But I tell you, if you have oat bran at home, do not throw it away; it makes an excellent grout for bathroom tile.
MS. BRACKETT: When Johnny Carson started telling jokes about oat bran, it was clear just how much of a hit the oat bran craze had taken over the last month. First, the New England Journal of Medicine published a study that said oat bran was no more effective at lowering cholesterol than a good low fat diet. And now the Federal Drug Administration has published a new set of regulations that could eventually lead to a ban on health claims for oat bran products. The oat bran craze had taken off two years ago when the FDA began to allow food manufacturers to make claims about what their products could do to prevent disease. Then a 1988 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association showed that oat bran could be just as effective as drug therapy in reducing cholesterol levels. Oat bran was hot. Everything from oat bran puffs to oat bran tortillas appeared on grocery store shelves. Quaker Oats rescued its hot oat bran from the health food stores and put a strong health claim on its oat bran and oat meal boxes. But Quaker knew it needed a cold oat bran cereal to capitalize on the oat bran mania. Meet Polly Kawalek, 35 year old product manager for oat bran products at Quaker Oats. For the past two years, Kawalek poured her considerable energy into researching, developing, and marketing a cold oat bran cereal for Quaker.
POLLY KAWALEK, Quaker Oats: Bringing out a line of products is an enormous job, it takes a lot of commitment from a whole team of people, people in market research and R&D, and the guys in the plant, and it's really exciting because you get a team of people, they all buy in, they all sacrifice a lot of personal time to making it happen, and we all feel very proud when we see it on the shelf.
MS. BRACKETT: On January 16th, Quaker began the national roll out of the new cold cereal. The high priced marketing campaign featured Robert Kowalski, author of a best selling book on the positive effects of oat bran and cholesterol.
ROBERT KOWALSKI: [TV Commercial] Exercise, a fat modified diet in new Quaker Oat Bran cold cereal, that's how you can help fight cholesterol.
MS. BRACKETT: Two days after Kawalek launched her new oat bran cereal, the New England Journal of Medicine published the oat bran study.
MS. KAWALEK: It certainly got my attention for two weeks and I think for the rest of the company, business went on just as it always does, but for the people working on the oat bran cereals, that was something that got our undivided attention.
MS. BRACKETT: Wall Street also took note.
MR. McMILLAN: The stock was 60 when it came out and now it got below 50.
MS. BRACKETT: John McMillan analyzes the food industry for Prudential-Bache.
JOHN McMILLIN, Prudential-Bache: The net cause of this study has probably been a drop in the stock market capitalization of the company of about $350 million.
MS. BRACKETT: Quaker could be in even more trouble if its health claims are found to be in violation of the tough new regulations proposed by the FDA. The new regulations do allow health claims to be made in six areas, one of which is fiber and heart disease. But they also say that before a health claim can be made, it must be "supported by a sound body of scientific evidence upon which a significant agreement exists." The head of Quaker's nutrition research program insists Quaker's health claims are on firm scientific ground.
STEVEN INK, Quaker Oats: In the case of oats and oat bran, there are over 25 years of scientific research that have appeared in scientific journals across the country and actually internationally as well that clearly show that oats and oat bran can have an independent cholesterol lowering benefit. This independent benefit has been attributed to the fiber in oats and oat bran.
MR. SILVERGLADE: Some studies do show that oat bran may reduce cholesterol levels. Other studies show just the opposite.
MS. WOODRUFF: Bruce Silverglade is an attorney with the Washington-based Center for Science in the Public Interest, a national consumer action group.
BRUCE SILVERGLADE, Consumer Activist: Until there's a consensus of scientific support for this kind of claim, companies should not be allowed to plaster their food packages with promises that their product is some type of magic bullet in the fight against heart disease. The burden shouldn't be on the consumer to decide if this science is upholding the claim. That's the FDA's role.
MS. BRACKETT: The previous lack of FDA regulations on health claims has led to confusion among consumers.
CONSUMER: You wonder about all these claims that are being made, whether or not these are really true.
CONSUMER: It's frustrating because I don't know what the best thing is to buy for my family, but we'll just have to see what further studies show.
CONSUMER: I'm beyond anger. It's just, you know, you roll your eyes, no, not again, here they go, and one day, everybody is just going to throw up their hands and say, what's the point. Just eat what you want. If you're going to die, you're going to die, you know, and that's pretty much the direction everyone's headed I would think.
MS. BRACKETT: The FDA says it will now move quickly to impose its new regulations, but the legitimacy of Quaker claims has already been tested on the state level. [QUAKER TV COMMERCIAL]
MS. BRACKETT: Last fall, the attorney general here in Texas filed suit against Quaker for breaking the state's food and drug law. That law says health claims cannot be made for food products. The suit also says that Quaker's claim that oat bran can lower your cholesterol is false and deceptive advertising.
JIM MATTOX, Attorney General, Texas: [September 1989] We are in the middle of an oat bran craze in this country that was primarily started and prompted by Quaker in order to sell its products.
MS. BRACKETT: Mattox says he thinks his lawsuit prompted the Bush administration to finally move on the FDA regulations. He says he will continue with the lawsuit to keep the heat on both the FDA and Quaker.
JIM MATTOX: But Quaker Oats has an easy way to solve this problem.All they've got to do is walk into my office and say, we agree that we've stepped over the line and we agree that we will step back across the line and not engage in false and deceptive advertising. They don't have to step very far to get back across the line if they will.
MS. BRACKETT: Do you think they will settle?
MR. MATTOX: I think ultimately they will.
MS. BRACKETT: Not likely, says Tom Howell, Quaker's general counsel.
TOM HOWELL, Quaker Oats: I would invite anyone, attorney general or a consumer, to look at any one of our ads and look at exactly what we say, not what the attorneys general and some of the media say we say but look at what we actually say, and decide for yourself whether you think we've exaggerated. We're prepared to do that in court down in Texas when the time comes.
MS. BRACKETT: If the Texas lawsuit or the FDA stops Quaker and other companies from using health claims, it could have a dramatic effect on their bottom line. In the last two years, the oat bran craze has boosted the cereal industry from a $6 billion industry to a $7 1/2 billion industry. Analysts say without the ability to make health claims, that spectacular growth would be slowed. If they lose this case in Texas, what could happen to Quaker Oats?
JOHN McMILLIN, Prudential-Bache: I think their very existence as an independent company could be threatened. There's just too many ways you can break this company apart to make money. I think the lawsuit and the resumption of earnings momentum in calendar 1990 will determine the future of the Quaker Oats Company.
MS. KAWALEK: [In Meeting] The struggle that we're really going to have to fight is we're out there competing for a cereal sale with about a hundred zillion other people.
MS. BRACKETT: Meanwhile Polly Kawalek and her team are hard at work trying to contain the damage and clarify the oat bran message to consumers.
MS. KAWALEK: The Quaker Oats Company is going to stay and fight for the integrity of any product in our line. These are products that we're proud of, they have a real benefit to them. They've been demonstrated in tests, and we'll stand behind them any day of the week.
MS. BRACKETT: With the future of the company possibly on the line, it is not surprising that Quaker has decided to fight hard for its products, both new and old.
MR. MacNeil: Faced with new government regulations, many other companies will be fighting to keep their health claims on food packages. As Elizabeth Brackett reported, some claims will still be allowed. Six areas are exempted from the new regulations because there is agreement on the scientific evidence supporting the claim that foods rich in calcium help prevent the bone disease osteoporosis, foods rich in fiber help prevent cancer, reducing fat helps prevent heart disease, reducing fat helps prevent cancer, reducing salt helps prevent hypertension and foods rich in fiber help prevent heart disease. Yesterday I spoke with Dr. Louis Sullivan, Sec. of Health & Human Services. Quaker Oats and other manufacturers with an interest would have to, under the new regulations, they'd have to come to the FDA and prove that the claims they've been making have scientific backing, is that it?
DR. LOUIS SULLIVAN, Secretary, Department of Health & Human Services: Yes, that's true. In this whole process, we will be creating an advisory committee of experts in nutrition which will work with our colleagues at the Food & Drug Administration because of the complexity of so many of these health claims and health issues, so at this present time, our plans areto look at each situation on a case by case basis, getting the best expertise in the field to help us with this.
MR. MacNeil: But some industry leaders, food industry leaders, say that the FDA doesn't have the personnel to investigate that sort of thing.
DR. SULLIVAN: Well, of course, I know that is a concern, but we don't believe that that is a true perspective on our situation. First of all, we have to pose in our budget to the Congress that we have recently submitted for the next fiscal year starting October 1 of 1990 an increase in FDA personnel of more than 500 individuals. Now they will be scattered throughout the FDA if Congress does support our efforts to get more personnel, but even within our present personnel, we believe that we have the capability of this review and enforcement mechanism.
MR. MacNeil: Another objection that's raised by the industry, I'm sure you've heard it, is that your regulations do not supersede the laws in the 50 states and that a company like Quaker Oats which has been sued by the State of Texas will still have to go through the court system there. Can you comment on that?
DR. SULLIVAN: This is an issue that we will be confronting but we don't believe that our efforts to obtain better information on food labels, which this proposal would do, would really bring us into conflict with state laws, but we anticipate that a greater degree of clarity and completeness along with the scientific review that we would have concerning health labels we believe would make less necessary various state based initiatives.
MR. MacNeil: Well, for instance, let's go back to the oat bran one since we've been concentrating on that. I mean, do you think until that labeling is approved to your satisfaction and they've demonstrated enough scientific evidence to meet your guidelines that all that stuff with those labels should be taken off the market?
DR. SULLIVAN: If the label makes a claim that it has a health benefit that has not been sufficiently substantiated by scientific evidence, then they would have to be removed when the FDA made such a determination. Were they not to have such a health label, then that would not require such action by the FDA.
MR. MacNeil: Why not let the market place take care of this? Some people say that if you go ahead with this kind of regulation, you're just going to slow down the whole movement towards better consumer awareness of the nutritive value of food.
DR. SULLIVAN: I don't believe that that really would be the case. There is great interest on the part of consumers as well as the food industry, itself, in establishing some uniformity of labeling that consumers can understand concerning the various health benefits of various foods. Secondly, the degree of scientific information we do have now of the relationship between foods and diseases has increased considerably. Our Surgeon General's Report on nutrition and health demonstrated this as well as the study from the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine here, so there is broad interest on the part of consumers and the industry for getting such information out to the consumers and therefore, we're responding to that express need.
MR. MacNeil: How are you going to regulate the areas that some people interested in the subject point out where the labeling may promote a healthy product, suppose oat bran, in a product that may not itself be healthy, for instance, beer? I mean, some people have been making beer with oat bran in it.
DR. SULLIVAN: Well, that's one of those complex questions that we would actuallybe looking to our panel to help us, because what really will be the decision there is how does this fit in the context of an overall healthy diet? Certainly, it would not be appropriate, I believe, for us to approve a label that would suggest that consumption of a large quantity of fiber in the form of beer would constitute an overall healthy diet.
MR. MacNeil: Well, for instance, there's another example they give where a soup may be labeled as having very high fiber, but the label may not mention that it also contains a lot of fat and sodium.
DR. SULLIVAN: Yes, that is really one of the concerns that we have. We want to be sure that the label gives complete information on all such ingredients as that. We do know of course the relationship between sodium content, fat content, and for example, the question of cholesterol is one whereby one may have a food whose cholesterol content, itself, is low, but it may be rich in saturated fat which would be converted in the body to cholesterol so that what we want to do in our labeling process is have sufficient information for consumers so that they will not be misled by an incomplete label, thinking that they are consuming a food that is healthy, so we would propose to be sure that we address those situations through our labeling process with the help of our advisory committee of experts.
MR. MacNeil: Just one final question. Your writ extends to labeling. What about advertising of the same products, which -- are there steps going to be taken by the administration to make the advertising of the products uniform with the labeling?
DR. SULLIVAN: We will be certainly making every effort to do just that because the advertising in a sense is an extension of the label. To make an advertisement concerning the value of a food, certainly is influencing consumer behavior, so certainly it would be appropriate for us to be sure that the advertising is supported by the best scientific data that's available concerning that particular food.
MR. MacNeil: Just one other point, some of the critics of these regulations say, look, if you wait for scientific consensus, even on something like oat bran, the generation you may hope to help with this information may be in their graves.
DR. SULLIVAN: Well, I would hope that we would be able to show that that would not be the case. We understand the need to move this process along as expeditiously as possible. There's great emphasis. We want to do everything we can to provide good information for the American consumer, because this fits overall with my priority with health promotion, disease prevention, which does require an informed consumer. Just how long this process will take I can't say precisely, but my colleagues at the FDA suggest that we believe that within a year approximately this whole process should be completed. Meanwhile, we will have interim regulations.
MR. MacNeil: Well, Dr. Sullivan, thank you very much for joining us. SERIES - BLACK HISTORY MONTH
MS. EVANS: February is Black History Month and we close tonight with a Charlayne Hunter-Gault conversation with dancer and choreographer Judith Jamison, who has now become the artistic director of the Alvin Ailey Dance Company.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Tall, elegant and spirited, African goddess of modern American dance, Judith Jamison, the dancer whose name became legend as she glided and rocked and twirled and swirled her way around the stage of the Alvin Ailey Dance Theater. True to his reputation for bold innovation, Ailey had not only created America's foremost interracial modern dancecompany, but he also took an anomaly in the dance world, a tall, big boned black woman and figured out how to use her. The five foot, ten inch dancer performed in a variety of roles, but her signature piece was a tour de force ballet "Cry", created especially for her by Ailey. By the '70s, Jamison reigned as Ailey's uncontested superstar of American dance. The Ailey-Jamison created partnership flourished for 15 years until 1980, when bone weary and restless, Jamison left the company but not the world of dance. Jamison starred in the hit Broadway musical "Sophisticated Lady", and was guest artist with some of the world's top ballet companies. In 1989, at 46, she started her own company, the Jamison Project. Hardly a season had passed, however, when her friend and mentor, Alvin Ailey, died. Not long after, Jamison was named to succeed him. For anyone else, that might have been a tall order, but no one knows these ropes and bars or Ailey's mission better than Jamison. Tell me briefly about Alvin Ailey's mission in dance, as you perceived it, and how you may be changing it.
JUDITH JAMISON: Mr. Ailey was so specific about his African- American heritage that what he had to say through movement became universal because it spoke to the human condition, so that if revelations was done in Russia or in Toledo or in Tokyo, everyone understood what that message was about, that it touched on humanity, it touched on human emotion, that his dancers always spoke to your insides and that made him the greatest communicator of movement as far as I'm concerned, for dance, not just for modern dance. He had a great ancestry, since the beginning of time as far as I'm concerned, of dance, and what I'd like to do in the Ailey is continue that history but not make the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater a museum.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Your biographer, Olger Maynard, wrote that your development as an artist has been dominated by your color as much as by your artistry and technical skills. Now that you are regarded as a mature performer and you've taken on other roles, how do you see all of that fitting into an equation?
MS. JAMISON: Well, I get up in the morning and I see the same face. It's just as brown as it could be. You know, this is it. That in some fantasy world I'm going to wake up and say people are going to recognize me as just a dancer, that's a fantasy, maybe that's in, you know, the year 3000 that that's going to evolve, that people will see each other for the content of their heart and not the color of their skin, but has worked for me as an African- American is that this is like en enhancement, because my history goes back to the beginning of time because I've got a million heartbeats in me which to me is what dancing is about. My folks have been dancing since the beginning of time, so I've got this advantage, you know what I'm saying. So it's an enhancement and all it's done has opened the doors that were supposed to be opened with a little color.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Do black dancers have any broader range of opportunities in the dance world say more than when you were in your prime?
MS. JAMISON: Yes, because there's another company and yes, because the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater now has 28 dancers in it instead of 12. There are opportunities.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But they're not in the larger art world?
MS. JAMISON: They're in the concert dance world and in the concert dance world, you only have a handful of companies, you know what I'm saying. It's not like we're talking about the general world of dance. Yeah, there are some gigs out there. There's Broadway. Every now and then we get a "Black and Blue" or a "Sophisticated Lady".
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Only with black shows.
MS. JAMISON: Mmm hmm.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So what are you saying? I mean, you're saying that there are opportunities but they're still limited?
MS. JAMISON: Oh, absolutely. They're still limited.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: How limited?
MS. JAMISON: There's "Black and Blue" and there was "Sophisticated Ladies" how long ago? That's how limited.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: You and Alvin Ailey both stress diversity in your dancers, that they all don't have to look alike. How unique is that still in the dance world.
MS. JAMISON: Most companies want everybody to look the same. They want everyone to fit the same body type and the same look and the same length hair, and you know, I think part of the beauty of the Ailey company is that whole idea that you should really relish your uniqueness and that's what Mr. Ailey built up these ballets on. I think companies don't try that, they don't try for that different look, some companies.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Looking back over your long and wonderful career, what impact do you think you've had on the dance world, and how do you see that carrying over into this, the next phase of your career?
MS. JAMISON: I just know an awful lot about dance after 41 years of being on the stage. I know a lot about dance and people trust me that I know a lot about it, that I know a lot about what happens in-between the steps. I know a lot about what happens to a finger if it's out of place an inch. I know about how to share what you have inside of you with an audience. I know about how true you have to be to yourself in order to get out something that's recognizable to an audience.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Alvin Ailey was unabashedly committed to telling the story of black history through his dance. Is that still something that's desirable that you want to do?
MS. JAMISON: It's very important, because you've got to know where you just came from to get where you're going. Any of the older pieces, the pieces that were made back in the '60s, have to stay alive and breathing. Dance you cannot hang on a wall and say isn't that a nice picture, because that's not the history of dance. The history of dance means you've got to dance it.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What about young dancers today, are they as intellectually plugged into the reasons behind so many of those dances?
MS. JAMISON: They care about it. They care about the history, some of them care about the history, not all of them, because dancers are very much of the moment, you know. When they realize, however, what has come before them and say, Carmen DeLavelot will walk into the studio and show a movement, that history is right in front of you and you see the mouths drop and you see people gasping, I still gasp because Carmen DeLavelot is one of my mentors and she still leaves the same feeling inside when I first saw her as a child.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Tell me about "Cry". I know you've done it a thousand times.
MS. JAMISON: "Cry" of course was made for Alvin's mother, did you know that? It was a birthday present for her. And it was dedicated to all black women, especially our mothers. The joy of it was teaching it to other women and watching them develop it as their own and seeing what they had to bring to it, and I think that's pretty clear, dedicated to all black women, especially our mothers, from slavery to triumph.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What themes interest you now and what do you think are important ones to explore at this point intime in African-American history?
MS. JAMISON: Children, children. I think that the most important thing to me at the moment besides the salvation of dancers and keeping them happy and healthy and loving what they're doing is this generation that is out there on the street doing what they shouldn't be doing, some of them, and some of them doing what they should be doing, and that they have some exposure to the world of dance and to art and to all the wonderful things that I as a child in Philadelphia had a chance to experience in the world of art and dance and theater and music. This generation I don't want to miss.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Do you think enough black children are being exposed to their culture?
MS. JAMISON: Not yet, but one of the major moves that I want to make with the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater is not just for the preservation of the longevity of a dancer's life, but to educate that generation is to do, make second homes and make third homes and fourth homes for the company. You know, our company is already, has a second home in Kansas City, and we're negotiating to have another home in Baltimore. Now in having these homes that means that the company can stay in one place for five or six weeks and do outreach programs and meet all these children and make dance not just this magical thing that happens on stage, but this dancer comes off that stage and goes into your school and you participate in the master class and you see a mini-performance or an in- formance or whatever and you get a chance to see how it all works, what that dedication is and what that commitment is and how much they love doing what they're doing.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Why is that important and what impact do you hope for?
MS. JAMISON: Why it's important is not so we can turn the next generation of young people into dancers, that's not the whole idea. There are very few dancers in the world. It's a gift. It's a blessing to be able to dance. They're not just all over, to be able to pick them out like this. There are very few of us. I'm talking about real dancers. The idea to me of introducing children to dance, to the theater is discipline, commitment, generosity, spirit. All that goes with whatever you want to do, so during lecture demonstrations, I always say to them, you don't have to turn into a dancer, you can be an architect, you can be a doctor, you can be anything you want to be, but that discipline and that commitment is something that you need in all your life.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: This is Black History Month. How do you feel about black history and how has it informed your life?
MS. JAMISON: I've always had a strength in knowing who I am because I had a mother who knew who she was and a father and a grandmother who knew who she was, and when they weren't there in my household, when my great grandmother who I never met, wasn't there, that history was always passed down about being strong about yourself, about who you are. And as I say, knowing that I've been here since the beginning of time, that this blood that courses through my veins gives me a great deal of feeling of well being knowing that there are so many of us and we've been around for such a long time that we are survivors and more than that, we triumph in our survival.
MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Judith Jamison, thank you, and good luck with the company.
MS. JAMISON: Thank you. RECAP
MR. MacNeil: Once again, the major stories of this Wednesday, Pres. Bush called the U.S.-Soviet troop cut agreement an important breakthrough. Ethnic violence in the Soviet republic of Tadzhikistan entered its third day. Mikhail Gorbachev said it has put the country's destiny at stake, and Nelson Mandela said he is willing to make compromises on every issue as long as it's in the history of the whole country. Good night, Roger.
MR. MUDD: Good night, Robin. That's our Newshour for tonight. I'm Roger Mudd. Thank you and good night.
Series
The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour
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NewsHour Productions
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NewsHour Productions (Washington, District of Columbia)
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cpb-aacip/507-416sx64r73
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Description
Episode Description
This episode's headline: One Germany; Health Food?; Black History Month. The guests include HANS-JOACHIM GIESSMANN, Political Analyst, East Germany; JURGEN RUHFUS, Ambassador, West Germany; DR. LOUIS SULLIVAN, Secretary, Health & Human Services; JUDITH JAMISON, Dancer; CORRESPONDENTS: ELIZABETH BRACKETT; NIK GOWING; CHARLAYNE HUNTER- GAULT. Byline: In New York: ROBERT MacNeil; In Washington: ROGER MUDD
Episode Description
This record is part of the Dance section of the Soul of Black Identity special collection.
Segment Description
The section featuring Judith Jamison begins at 00:44:09. You can use the following link to share or go directly to the segment: https://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-507-416sx64r73?start=2653.25&end=3438.3)
Date
1990-02-14
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History
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Copyright NewsHour Productions, LLC. Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International Public License (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/legalcode)
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01:00:14
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Producing Organization: NewsHour Productions
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NewsHour Productions
Identifier: NH-1667 (NH Show Code)
Format: 1 inch videotape
Generation: Master
Duration: 01:00:00;00
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Citations
Chicago: “The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour,” 1990-02-14, NewsHour Productions, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 29, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-507-416sx64r73.
MLA: “The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour.” 1990-02-14. NewsHour Productions, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 29, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-507-416sx64r73>.
APA: The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour. Boston, MA: NewsHour Productions, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-507-416sx64r73