The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

INTRO

ROBERT MacNEIL: Good evening. These are today's main news stories. Several major banks again cut the prime lending rate. Artificial heart recipient William Schroeder was reported to be looking great. Washington resumed diplomatic relations with Iraq after 17 years. The World Court rejected a U.S. plea to drop a complaint by Nicaragua. Jim?

JIM LEHRER: From the top on the NewsHour tonight, there's a summary of the news of the day. Then, from Louisville, a major focus segment with doctors Jarvik and Lansing, two key players in the artificial heart operation. That will be followed by a newsmaker interview with William Bennett of the Humanities Endowment on what's missing in a college education these days; a focus debate between black leaders Clarence Pendleton and Benjamin Hooks on Pendleton's complaint about Hooks, among other things; and, finally, a profile of a most unusual man, the most unusual new mayor of Portland, Oregon. News Summary

LEHRER: There were two developments on the taxes and money front today. The prime rate went down again, led by a big New York and a big Chicago bank, and quickly followed by various regional banks around the country.It was dropped to 11.5%; that is as low as it's been since last April, and was the end result of a fifth cut in the rate since early September. The prime is what banks charge their best and biggest business customers.

Also today President Reagan spent the afternoon with Treasury Secretary Donald Regan talking tax reform. Regan laid out a tax simplification plan which could, if adopted, result in the first major revamping of the income tax system since it all began 17 years ago -- excuse me, 71 years ago. The Regan proposal will be made public tomorrow. They say it's a modified flat tax, lowering the tax rates for all taxpayers, with off-setting elimination of various deductions.

Robin?

MacNEIL: William Schroeder, the second man in history to receive an artificial heart, was said to be in critical but stable condition tonight. Doctors at the Louisville hospital where the implant took place yesterday said his circulation looked excellent. There was no recurrence of the bleeding that necessitated a second emergency operation last night. Schroeder is 52 years old. His own diseased heart was expected to give out within a week. At a press briefing, Dr. Allan Lansing, the head of the Humana Heart Institute in Louisville, described the patient's condition.

Dr. ALLAN LANSING, Humana Heart Institute: I am pleased to tell you that I have nothing to say this afternoon. That is, that Mr. Schroeder has remained very stable all day. He is very alert. His family has been in to visit him; his wife and five of the children have been in to talk to him. He knows they are there. He is able to move and respond in any way that we wish. And he does not appear uncomfortable in any way.

MacNEIL: Dr. Lansing's patient, William Schroeder, is an army munitions inspector from Jasper, Indiana. He had to retire early because of his illness. He's the father of six and grandfather of five. This afternoon his wife, Margaret, told reporters she was glad he'd gone through with the operation.

MARGARET SCHROEDER, wife: Well, it was kind of left to Bill to make up his own mind as to what he wanted to do, and we just kind of sit down and said, "Dad, what do you want to do?" And he said, "I have no other thoughts other than go all the way." So we said, "We're behind you," and from there we just kept going. And we came to Humana, and from there everybody just took over, and next thing we knew we were selected to be the candidate for the heart, and from there he's where he is now. And in the best of hands, we feel, that he could ever be in besides the good Lord above.

MacNEIL: In a few moments we'll be talking to two of those hands, Dr. Lansing and Dr. Robert Jarvik, the designer of the artificial heart. Jim?

LEHRER: In overseas matters today, the United States and Iraq resumed diplomatic relations. President Reagan made it official this morning after meeting with Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz. Then, at a brief ceremony outside the Iraqi Embassy, the flag of Iraq was raised for the first time since 1967.Iraq broke off relations with the U.S. 17 years ago in protest of U.S. support for Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.Iraq, of course, has been involved in a war of its own against Iran for the last four years.

In The Hague, Netherlands, today the World Court ruled it did have the right to resolve Nicaragua's complaint against the United States. Nicaragua charged in April the United States was backing armed attacks against it. The U.S. claimed the World Court had no legal authority to intervene, a position the court rejected in its 15-to-1 vote ruling today. State Department spokesman Alan Romberg said the U.S. still believes the World Court is the wrong place to resolve the dispute. There was no world today on when the court would hand down its final ruling on the complaint itself. The World Court has no power to enforce any of its decisions; it's up to the nations involved to respond on a voluntary basis.

Robin?

MacNEIL: A group of former high officials from previous administrations today gave a cautious welcome to the forthcoming U.S.-Soviet talks on arms control, but continued to attack President Reagan's Star Wars plans. The group included McGeorge Bundy, national security adviser to Presidents Kennedy and Johnson; Robert McNamara, defense secretary in the same administrations; and Gerard Smith, head of the team which negotiated the SALT I treaty in the Nixon administration. At a press conference McNamara said, "I'm delighted the administration is moving towards umbrella talks," meaning bringing all the arms discussions together. But, like his colleagues, he continued to criticize the Star Wars proposal for a defensive shield against a Soviet nuclear attack.

ROBERT McNAMARA, former Secretary of Defense: The overwhelming consensus of the nation's technical community is that there is no prospect whatever -- no prospect whatever -- that science and technology at any time in the next several decades can develop a leakproof defense which will make the nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete and which would make it possible to destroy those weapons. Ultimately, the strategic defense initiative will die of its own weight. But in the meantime, we will have paid staggering costs -- political, financial and military.

MacNEIL: Soviet President Konstantin Chernenko said today that the upcoming arms talks should combine the interconnected questions of space weapons and both medium-range and strategic missiles.

At Panmunjom, Korea, U.S. and North Korean representatives spent four hours exchanging charges following the shooting yesterday in which five were killed. The shooting started when the North Koreans fired on a Soviet student defector, who dashed across the armistice line. The U.S. called it the gravest incident since the Korean War ended 31 years ago.

Negotiations continue in the hijacking at Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, where five hijackers hold 103 people hostage aboard a Somalian Airlines jet. They postponed until tomorrow a threat to blow up the plane. Jim?

LEHRER: Our final item in the news summary tonight is about cars, cars that don't work the way they should. General Motors today announced the recall of 3.1 million of its 1978, '79 and '80 mid-sized cars.They have a rear-axle problem, and their owners will be notified to bring them in for repair or replacement. The National Highway Traffic Safety administration in Washington said it has received more than 1,000 complaints of axle failures with the cars, including 208 accidents and 30 injuries. Also today, Ford Motor Company put out a recall notice for 500,000 of its 1984-85 Ford Tempo and Mercury Topaz models to correct a rear wheel alignment problem. Debriefing the Doctors

MacNEIL: Our top focus section tonight takes us to back to Louisville, Kentucky, where the second mechanical heart implant took place yesterday. We'll be talking to two leading members of the medical team. The operation took place two years after the first implant at the University of Utah, on December 2, 1982. Dr. Barney Clark, the Seattle dentist, was the recipient, and he survived for 112 days before his other vital organs gave way and he died of circulatory collapse. The same man who implanted Clark's heart, Dr. William DeVries, also performed the latest operation. In Louisville, correspondent Kwame Holman has a report on this weekend's developments.

KWAME HOLMAN [voice-over]: Fifty-two-year-old William Schroeder was wheeled into the operating room at Louisville's Humana Hospital Audubon just before 7 a.m. Sunday. He had undergone gall bladder surgery just 10 days ago, and doctors had hoped to wait at least another week before implanting the world's second artificial heart. But they felt certain that Schroeder's severely diseased heart would not last that long.

Dr. ALLAN LANSING, Humana Heart Institute: Mr. Schroeder was desperately ill and, I am convinced, could not have lived more than a few days. He now has a functioning artificial heart that can carry on his body functions. And if we get through the next few days; that is, if we get to the weekend, he will have lived as long as he would have otherwise.

Dr. WILLIAM DeVRIES, during surgery: What we'll do is we'll put the heart down into the chest and then we'll measure it.

HOLMAN [voice-over]: In Sunday's 6 1/2-hour operation, the ventricles, or blood-pumping portion, of his heart were removed and replaced with the artificial implant driven by an exterior motor. If Schroeder continues to improve, he could become the first person to use a newly-approved portable drive system for his artificial heart.

Dr. DeVRIES, to Schroeder: It's all through. The operation is all through. You did really well. Everything went perfect.

HOLMAN: William Schroeder's heart was damaged during heart bypass surgery in 1983. On Sunday his artificial implant was attached to some of that damaged heart tissue and that's what resulted in the massive bleeding and emergency surgery of Sunday night. With that problem apparently behind them, doctors here at Humana Hospital Audubon are looking for any onset of infection or the appearance of a possiblylife-threatening blood clot. Today Schroeder continues to breathe with the aid of a respirator.

Dr. LANSING: The respirator setting is only at eight per minute. Normal breathing for this situation would be 15 to 20 a minute. So he's already breathing on his own. We are just assisting him through this period. We want him to deep breathe, we want him to cough occasionally. We want him to be moving. So we will keep him comfortable, but we will not keep him absolutely asleep and still.

HOLMAN [voice-over]: With William Schroeder essentially stabilized, doctors are talking about going ahead with one of four more government-approved implants.

Dr. LANSING: Yes, we are prepared to go ahead any time with another one, but no, we have no immediate plans. We admitted a patient yesterday for evaluation. We are admitting one today for evaluation. The one yesterday, I believe, was from Tennessee; the one today is from Minnesota. But we are not making any plans. The only possibility of another implant within the next week would be if a patient was critically ill and could not come off heart-lung bypass and if we had already discussed with the patient and the family this possibility before he went to the operating room. I do not see any patients like that in the immediate future.

LEHRER: With us now from Louisville are Dr. Lansing, who is the head of the Humana Heart Institute, and Dr. Robert Jarvik, the designer of the Jarvik artificial heart, which was implanted in the chest of William Schroeder. First, Dr. Lansing, is there any late or new information on Mr. Schroeder's condition tonight?

Dr. LANSING: No, I would say that his condition remains perfectly stable and has all day long with no change in any of his vita signs. He is quite alert. His kidney function is excellent, his lungs are functioning well, and his diabetes is under control. So he remains very stable all day.

LEHRER: What does critical but stable mean?

Dr. LANSING: Critical means that he has undergone an extremely major procedure which may have many complications. But his vital signs remain stable; that is, unchanging, over many hours.

LEHRER: In the immediate, say, 24 hours, what are the potential dangers?

Dr. LANSING: I think that I do not see any immediate potential dangers in the next 24 hours. I would look for a gradual improvement in all his body functions in that period of time. The problems that we are looking at and being concerned are things that might occur a week or more away.

LEHRER: Like what?

Dr. LANSING: Well, the next major thing that we were worried about would be the possibility of an infection occurring primarily because of the major operation, the re-exploration and the fact that he has diabetes. And the second would be the appearance of blood clots going from the pelvis or legs to the lungs and causing a circulatory disturbance, a pulmonary embolus. This can occur in anybody who has a major illness such as his severe heart disease. So those are the two big things we're looking at in the future. For the present, we are looking for slow improvement in all his body functions.

LEHRER: Now, the bleeding problem that was corrected with the emergency surgery yesterday, is that now behind him?

Dr. LANSING: I believe so. He has had some gradual oozing from the large, raw surface area, but he has had no more major bleeding since last evening. And I think that since it has remained controlled for this period of time, it will likely continue that same way.

LEHRER: Does this mean, Dr. Lansing, that in the future, candidates for this kind of operation may not be those who have had bypass surgery?

Dr. LANSING: No, I don't think so. We talked to the family ahead of time that this was an additional risk or hazard as far as his recovery, but it certainly is not a contraindication to the heart replacement program in the future.

LEHRER: Dr. Jarvik, how is your artificial heart functioning so far? Yours -- I mean the one you designed. Obviously it's Mr. Schroeder's now.

Dr. ROBERT JARVIK: Yes. It's functioning very much as expected. It's pumping at the cardiac output that we wish it to pump at. We're controlling it to roughly four to five liters per minute, more in the range of four liters per minute, which is a pre-selected value to be a mosdest increase over his previous output. His systemic pressure is normal; his blood pressure to his lungs is slightly elevated. It was slightly elevated before surgery, so it's approximately where it was. And, all in all, human dynamically he is quite stable and we're very satisfied.

LEHRER: Now, the plan, as Kwame Holman said in his report and as we all know, is to eventually attach the heart to a portable power pack. First of all, what kind of power system is it on now?

Dr. JARVIK: Right now it's on what we call Utah kind of power system is it on now?

Dr. JARVIK: Right now it's on what we call the Utah drive system, which is a relatively large and cumbersome console unit weighing several hundred pounds.

LEHRER: The size of a refrigerator? I mean, how big is it?

Dr. JARVIK: Oh, sort of like a regular TV set, stationary TV set in your living room, or the size of a speaker's podium, for example. The portable unit is about the size of a large lady's handbag or camera case, weighs about 12 pounds, and has within it its own battery power, electrically powered compressor and computer-regulated control system.

LEHRER: Now, Dr. Barney Clark, the first recipient of your device, did not have this portable power pack, correct?

Dr. JARVIK: That's right. It was available at the time of Dr. Clark, and we asked for permission from the review board at the University of Utah, but they decided to table it. They were unable to review it on time to use it with Dr. Clark.

LEHRER: Dr. Lansing, do you have any problems with the power pack?

Dr. LANSING: No, I do not. I think the Utah drive system has proved to be extremely reliable over years of testing. It is used primarily because of its reliability. Naturally, we would all look for a smaller, more portable and, finally, a totally implantable power pack, but until such time as we have proved that the heart itself will function well and that it can add to the length and quality of life, then I do not think that we will be looking for an implantable power source. That, of course, is the final aim.

LEHRER: Sure. Dr. Jarvik, what do you say to those who say, "well, this is -- even if it works and is further successful than it's already been, that it will never be a permanent device, that it will always be a temporary matter until a human heart transplant can be found and performed. Do you agree?

Dr. JARVIK: No, but I think that's a very reasonable thing to do in some cases. I certainly agree with those who have done that before, who believe that in some cases where you can salvage a patient, hold them over for a heart transplant, and really get them going with that transplant, that's an excellent thing to do. I believe the main reason for pursuing total artificial heart is that there just are not enough donors and we're hopeful, ultimately, to provide a system that can be ready and waiting on an emergency basis for the very many people who need it.

LEHRER: Yes. Dr. Lansing, in Mr. Schroeder's case, what is the plan there? Assuming everything goes well, is it to eventually put a human heart in him or stay with the artificial heart, forever if necessary or if possible?

Dr. LANSING: No, the aim is to continue with the artificial heart indefinitely. Mr. Schroeder was not a candidate for a heart transplant in that he was over 50 years of age and he does have diabetes. These two factors would make him not a candidate in any case.Regardless of that, he was selected as a candidate for permanent implantation of the heart.

LEHRER: Now, you don't have anything to add, I guess, since your briefing this afternoon about the possibility of going ahead with another operation in the next couple of days or so, or the next week?

Dr. LANSING: No. We do not have any plans to go ahead with another operation in the immediate future. We are screening possible candidates, but we're looking at them as something that would be days, weeks down the road. So there is no plan, nobody else has been selected. We're not planning another operation at this time.

LEHRER: Then the reports --

Dr. JARVIK: Could I comment on that?

LEHRER: Sure, yes, sir.

Dr. JARVIK: I think it's very important to keep a little perspective on this thing. Despite the fact that we have been quite optimistic today about the hope for a good outcome, we do have a lot of hurdles ahead of us. We do have to realize that this is a research-phase project, a very early thing; there is a tremendous amount to be learned. And I would not like the public to get the impression that because we're encouraged one day that we're immediately ready to move on to a great number of cases. That's certainly not true.

LEHRER: Well, gentlemen, that brings me to this. What are the hundles? Give me a scenario of hurdles. You mentioned, Dr. Lansing, the immediate week ahead of us is infection problems and all of that. Take me from there, the two of you, please, in any order you want to go in as to what are the problems that do lie ahead.

Dr. LANSING: Go ahead, Rob.

Dr. JARVIK: Well, in the first place, just the stabilization now in the immediate post-operative period is very important, and despite the fact that Dr. Lansing and Dr. DeVries are feeling comfortable about the bleeding situation, it still is possible that bleeding could occur. It still is possible that he could have severe pulmonary problems. He does not have that now. It still is possible that he could have renal failure or other complications. Remember, he's had massive transfusions because of the several bleeding that he had, and it's not fair to view that this patient is a standard post-operative cardiac surgery patient. There is a real unknown course. Beyond that, I think we have to see how he feels about it. We have to see what his quality of life is. We have to see how his family views it, how he goes on. Hopefully, he may leave the hospital. He may not. And I don't think we should get so overly optimistic that we are unrealistic, and I don't think we should mislead the public into thinking that this program is at all on the verge of very widespread use. It's a deliberate, careful, scientific program. It has to proceed that way. We hope to work with other perople, but all these step-to-step processes of learning will have to go on, and it's going to be basically a difficult and long course to learn how to deal with this.

LEHRER: Give me a scenario, Dr. Lansing, of problems as they come up, might come up.

Dr. LANSING: Well, we have mentioned most of the major problems. The next will be that of nutrition; that is, getting back his strength and restoring his body tissues; then there will be that of restoring his muscle function -- that is, exercise program. Next would be the problem that if he got well enough to consider leaving the hospital, we would have to find housing for him in the neighborhood so that he could live adjacent to the hospital for some time, and then finally --

LEHRER: How long? How long?

Dr. LANSING: If everything went very well, he would likely live in the neighborhood of the hospital for three to four months before he finally moved back to Jasper. Jasper is about 45 minutes away, and it would be a rush to get back to the hospital, and consequently we'd like him to stay around Louisville for three to four months before he rejoined his entire family in Jasper, Indiana.

LEHRER: All right, keep going, sir. I interrupted you. What comes next?

Dr. LANSING: Well, if he got back to Jasper, then it would be a case of his family adjusting to the total problem of a man who is on a machine, to keep his life alive. His physicians there and his family would have to be trained to recognize and treat the initial problems that might arise before he could be rushed back to the hospital. It would be a tremendous educational program.I must say that his physicians from Jasper are outstanding. The family physician and the cardiologist involved, Dr. Saib and Dr. Dawkins, have really done an enormous job with the family and the community, and I think they would be perfectly capable of helping him if he gets back there.

LEHRER: Dr. Lansing, do you share Dr. Jarvik's warning, though, that, wait a minute, we're only a short time into this operation and it's too soon to be that optimistic?

Dr. LANSING: I think that was very well put and extremely import to emphasize. I couldn't agree more with the fact that it's far too early to be cheering, and we have a great deal to learn. I think Rob put that extremely well.

LEHRER: All right, gentlemen in Louisville, thank you both very much. Robin?

Dr. LANSING: Thank you.

MacNEIL: There are still three segments to come on tonight's NewsHour. Judy Woodruff talks to the author of a scathing report on American college education. We join the bitter debate over the charge that some black leaders have turned racial politics into a profitable industry. And we profile the unusual new mayor of Portland, Oregon. College Education: Culture Gap?

MacNEIL: Last year American public schools got a rotten report card from the President's Commission on Excellence in Education, which said public education was being engulfed by a rising tide of mediocrity. Now it's the turn of American colleges to be criticized. Judy Woodruff has the story. Judy?

JUDY WOODRUFF: Robin, it is a blanket denunciation of higher education in this country and, it comes in a report issued by the National Endowment for the Humanities. In the first place, it charges that a major dropoff in the number of students taking courses like history, English literature and the classics means that the humanities and the study of Western civilization have lost their central place in colleges. It goes on to say that most of our college graduates remain short-changed in the humanities -- history, English literature, philosophy and the ideals and practices of the past that have shaped the society they enter. To remedy this situation the report recommends that college students take a core curriculum including courses in Western and non-Western civilization, literature, philosophy and foreign languages. The chairman of the 31-member panel of educators that produced the report is William Bennett. He is chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities.

First of all, Mr. Bennett, just how bad is the situation? What is it that you're saying students should be getting that they're not getting?

WILLIAM BENNETT: Well, it's pretty bad. I would say that our report -- I don't think it's fair to characterize the report as a blanket denunciation of higher education in toto, throughout. Our emphasis is on the humanities, and, as you listed the subjects of the humanities, we do think it's serious there. We have noted very dramatic declines in the number of students who take courses in these areas, and we think this is a serious problem. This was the work of a study group of 31 people -- presidents of colleges and universities, professors, others interested in the problem -- and it's a matter that's been talked about for some time. We have a lot of figures, a lot of data, a lot of analyses, but in addition to that, a pretty strong sense among the group that we've got to fix this problem.

WOODRUFF: Why is it so bad?

Mr. BENNETT: Well, there were a number of comments about why things are so bad. I think that one could point to a number of things and be quite specific. Somewhere around 1970 or '71 the number of students who were taking courses in the humanities, first those who were majoring in the humanities and then those who were not majoring in the humanities but taking a distribution requirement or expectation in history or literature or philosophy, that number began to fall. It has fallen steadily, unwaveringly since 1971. I think the most logical candidate, the most obvious answer, is that colleges and universities stopped expecting students to take these courses, stopped requiring them, and so students acted like students, and that is they pursued the path of what they regard as the quickest path to a career.

WOODRUFF: So if the finger is not pointing at the students, who is it pointing at?

Mr. BENNETT: Well, we point the finger, and when I say we, the group is comprised largely, for the most part, of people from colleges and universities. We point the finger at institutions of higher education, at deans, the presidents, the provosts, and at faculties. Those two groups -- the administration and faculty -- have the responsibility for saying what the course of study ought to be, and we think they've not done the job that they should have in recent years.

WOODRUFF: Do you realistically think that they're ready to change their thinking on this?

Mr. BENNETT: Well, I think some are. We did point to some bright spots in the curriculum. We pointed to some institutions that have turned things around, and we know this is a matter of discussion among a lot of people in higher education. In everybody's mind, I think, who is involved in a college our university, there is the notion that some experience with some study of these subjects, of literature, of American history, of European history, philosophy, of the ideas and ideals that have shaped our society, that this is part of it, or at least has to be part of it. And there is an increasing sense that for an increasing number of students it is not part of their education.

WOODRUFF: But for so many students who are concerned with -- you know, we have just been through a recession that ended a year or so ago, you know, their major concern is going to be getting a job when they get out of school. How do you expect these colleges to convince, persuade these students that they need to back off of that and think about some broader curriculum?

Mr. BENNETT: There's nothing wrong with getting a job, there is nothing wrong with being interested in getting a job.I would say that I don't think student interest in getting a job was invented in the early '70s or the early '80s, as we hear sometimes now. When I went to college in the early '60s we were very interested in getting a job, too. But the people who were running the universities said to us, "You'll get a job. We'll train you to get a job, but we'll also train you to be an educated person. We'll train you to have some familiarity with the truths of the human heart that lie in literature. We'll train you so that you'll have some idea of the honorable and dishonorable acts in history. We'll train you so that you'll have some sense of the philosophical arguments and debates that had so much to do with the framing of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the institutions that we live with. We're not coming out against people being interested in jobs. I believe with John Dewey that it's not enough for a man to be good. He's got to be good for something. What we're saying is that higher education ought to mean some education in these areas. At most the recommendations that we have, we're talking about eight to 10 courses out of 40 courses in four years. We don't think that's too much to ask.

WOODRUFF: We've just heard over the last couple of years the experts saying that our colleges aren't doing a good enough job in teaching math and science, and now you're saying they're not doing a good job of teaching courses at the other end of curriculum, English literature and history and so forth. What are the students studying?

Mr. BENNETT: Well, there are of course trends that change from year to year. We see a lot of emphasis on computer science these days, a lot of interest in the business major, and I think that higher education does a good job in these and in other areas, and I would say that in the humanities we do a very good job at sponsoring research, and I think our professors are as bright and able as professors anywhere, but we don't do a very effective job of teaching. One of the problems is, and this may cut across other disciplines, although the purview of our report was just the humanities, is that teaching has been discredited. If no longer is the case on many campuses that teaching is the main reason the institution exists. From the point of view of some faculty, they are there in order to advance their own research, and from the point of the students, they are there to get out as quickly as they can and get a job.

WOODRUFF: How do you turn that around?

Mr. BENNETT: Well, that's the function of leadership.

WOODRUFF: A very imbedded --

Mr. BENNETT: That's the function of leadership, Judy, and the thing I think that distressed us the most in the report was to review findings of others and to determine that -- we discovered that -- take those leaders of colleges and universities, the chief academic officers. A recent survey by Clark Kerr and David Riesman points out that 2% of the chief academic officers of colleges and universities say that they are actively involved in the academic direction of the institution. Well, who's minding the store?

WOODRUFF: If they're not.

Mr. BENNETT: Who's minding the store? They've got to.

WOODRUFF: I have to ask you this. As you know, your name is one of the few being mentioned as a finalist for the next secretary of the Department of Education. You want to share anything with us on that front?

Mr. BENNETT: You might have to ask but I don't have to answer. I really don't want to comment.

WOODRUFF: If you did move into the position, what could you do, do you think, from that standpoint, to further the things you've been talking about here tonight?

Mr. BENNETT: I don't want to answer it as a hypothetical either. I hope that we can focus on this report because we think we're onto something that's very important. And we hope this report will be read and taken seriously. So far from the reaction it's certainly being taken seriously, and we're hoping to see some action on campuses.

WOODRUFF: Well, we're taking it seriously tonight. William Bennett, thank you for being with us.

Mr. BENNETT: Thanks very much.

WOODRUFF: Robin? Black Voters Misled?

MacNEIL: And now we come to our final focus section tonight, and with it we plunge into the bitter debate that has engulfed the black community over the election results. Last week the civil rights chief for the Reagan administration took on a host of mainstream black leaders. Speaking in Akron, Ohio, Clarence Pendleton, chairman of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, attacked Jesse Jackson, former Urban League president Vernon Jordan, and Benjamin Hooks, executive director of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

CLARENCE M. PENDLETON, Jr., Chairman, U.S. Civil Rights Commission: The black leaders have made an industry out of racial politics. They created this industry and sold their product, race, primarily to one customer, the federal government and the liberal white establishment who are riddled with fear and guilt. These leaders made and made lots of money, have gained social acceptance and attracted broad-based media attention. Still there is no parity and there is still poverty. And I say to America's black leadership, open the plantation gates and let us out. We refuse to be led to another political Jonestown as we were led in this last presidential election. And I'm saying no more Kool-Aid, Jesse, Ben and Vernon. We want to be free.

LEHRER: The man who spoke those words, Clarence Pendleton, is with us tonight from San Diego. Mr. Pendleton, named chairman of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission by President Reagan in April 1982, is the former president of the San Diego chapter of the Urban League. Mr. Pendleton, taking these things one at a time, how is the election a political Jonestown for blacks?

Mr. PENDLETON: Well, I think the 90-to-9 loss on the part of those leaders who promoted the Democratic ticket and primarily candidates Mondale and Ferraro led us into a political Jonestown for those blacks who followed them, and I think that it's important that we understand that 90-to-9 is a loss and it's going to be very difficult to recover. I think the recovery is possible. I would hope that this administration under President Reagan's leadership would certainly begin to try to continue to do the things they have done in the past and attract to this administration's policies and its programs a sizeable portion of the black community, with or without the black leadership.

LEHRER: But as far as what blacks did by voting the Democratic ticket in November, in the election three weeks ago, you're saying that they committed suicide as far as what the Reagan administration might do now?

Mr. PENDLETON: No, I don't think so at all. I think the political suicide is that that's a kind of a loss.I don't see any retribution at all on the part of the Reagan administration for not getting any more than 9% of the vote. As a matter of fact, I would see great compassion on the part of this administration to begin to let people see that it is an administration of all the people and not just special interest groups.

LEHRER: All right. Now, your comment about black leaders turning racial policies into an industry, give me an example of how that has been done, sir.

Mr. PENDLETON: Well, I think the great cry for the social programs in the '60s and a lot of the black leadership and a lot of the black organizations made a lot of money, hired a lot of people, implemented a lot of programs, and in spite of all of that, as you can read by the evidence in Mr. Murray's book and other material, there is still no parity and there is still a lot of poverty. And this great infusion of dollars into black communities, as well as other communities, has really not gotten the result that we hoped or that was hoped for when these programs were first implemented. This is not the first time I've made this comment about the race industry. I made it in one of my first speeches in Washington, D.C., soon after assuming the chairmanship of the commission.

LEHRER: Now, make sure I understand you correctly here. It is your position, then, that the black leaders, including the three that you named and others, have used their positions to do what instead of correcting the problems of poverty and parity?

Mr. PENDLETON: We still have the same problems and sometimes the problems are even worse. And so therefore the positions in promoting these kinds of programs have not really made the communities better, and I hear more and more calls for the same kinds of programs. I think it's evident now that government-financed social programs are not going to put blacks and other people on the pathway to glory. It's going to take a strong economic program to begin to create those jobs that will allow people to go to work and make a meaningful wage and to take an active place in this country's maintream.

LEHRER: Why did you select Jesse Jackson, Vernon Jordan and Benjamin Hooks as the worst offenders?

Mr. PENDLETON: Well, they have been the most outspoken people about this, heading three major organizations and certainly the talk during the election was everything was anti-Reagan. I can remember during the 1981 Urban League convention in Washington when Vice President Bush said "Bring us some new solutions, we're ready to work with you." There have been people from the administration who have gone to various conventions, who have spoken about the administration's programs.Each time we hear the administration has been lambasted. And in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, the pre-election polls, people were still led to believe that there was some possibility that the other ticket could win, notwithstanding the fact, certainly, that this is a kind of a sad commentary on the 19th anniversary of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. It was my assumption, and the assumption of many people, that blacks would be allowed to exercise the franchise of voting, and these black leaders could have played broker and given people some options. Instead, there was a complete rejection of the Republican Party, and a heavy, heavy promotion of voter registration and the heavy, heavy promotion of the Democratic ticket, and we were the most loyal -- they were the most loyal to the party, and a 90-to-9 loss is quite a loss.

LEHRER: Thank you. Robin?

MacNEIL: One of the leaders Mr. Pendleton singled out is Benjamin Hooks, head of the NAACP, the country's oldest and largest civil rights organization. Before we get to the specifics, in general how do you respond to this, Mr. Hooks?

BENJAMIN HOOKS: Well, it's quite flattering to be told that you along with two other black leaders can influence the vote of 90% of the black voters against their will, against their best interests. I reject that. I think that black voters have shown, ever since they've had the right to vote, a great deal of intelligence and we certainly -- I don't want to sit here and try to take credit for having influenced 90% of the black voters. Secondly, let me hasten to add that the NAACP is non-partisan. We did not endorse Mondale. We did not endorse Ferraro. We did look at the issues. We did look at the Republican platform. But we have never taken a partisan position, and we don't plan to do so now.

MacNEIL: When about the charge that you led voters to a political Jonestown, which is pretty strong language for suicide, leading black voters to a political suicide?

Mr. HOOKS: Well, I think Pendleton is just as wrong there as he's been in the past. He is obviously not in the mainstream of the black community. He does not speak for them. He has had four years to sell his brand of Republicanism or whatever he's doing, and let me hasten to add that the NAACP and I personally have called, on every public occasion that I've dealt with it, for a strong black leadership in both the Republican and the Democratic parties. We believe that if a two-party system has paid off for the white community it ought to pay off for the black community. And to that extent, I think we ought to have strong black leadership in both parties. But going beyond that, it was simply a matter of fact at this point, and one could detect that if you stay with the grassroots of black people, whether you're in the shoeshine stand, the barber shop, the lodge hall, the church, wherever you happen to be, that black people generally had perceived Mr. Reagan as not being friendly to their cause. Let me say I'm glad to see Mr. Pendleton change his tune, because I want to remind him today that Mr. Reagan is the president of all the people. We're not playing European Balkan politics where if you don't vote for the loser you get cut out, and I want to make it clear that black folk don't have to seek sympathy, pity or compassion. We are seeking simple justice and equity. That's all we're looking for.

MacNEIL: Well, he says there is no parity, that after all these years of what he calls you black leaders making an industry out of racial politics and applying for more and more government programs, that there is still poverty, no parity and the blacks, relatively speaking, aren't any better off.

Mr. HOOKS: Well, that's such a pitiful statement. If one looks at the history of the NAACP, in 1909 every 2 1/2 days a black was lynched in this country. In 1909 when we got started there was absolute unyielding segregation by law in the South, by fact in the North. There -- you could not ride a train across this country without being shunted into Jim Crow cars. In the South, where I was raised, you had to sit on the third balcony of a movie theater. We couldn't stay overnight in hotels. NAACP has opened all of these doors so that I can sit here and Clarence Pendleton can sit as the head of that commission that he hads. We have constantly, consistently, for 75 years, been in the forefront of bringing blackfolk into the middle of American life, and we make no apology for that, and there's no record anywhere from the topside of heaven to the bottomside of hell that any NAACP leader has died rich, whether it's Thurgood Marshall, Walter White or anybody else, or Ben Hooks. We don't expect to die rich. And I have no apology to make for the record we have created. And let me just say --

MacNEIL: You said you don't expect to die rich, but in that speech he said you've all made lots of money out of this industry.

Mr. HOOKS: Well, I heard that speech and I deny that. It just isn't true.It is not a fact. And let me say one other thing. NAACP, as a matter of it's own policy, does not receive, does not accept government grants. In the seven years that I've been the head of the NAACP, we've only one time accepted a government grant, and that was a limited grant to deal with police violence in this nation. We've turned down grant after grant. That is not our business. We're not a part of it. We're non-partisan. We do not accept government grants as a matter of policy. And I resent the accusation that black leaders are trying to make an industry out of the government.

MacNEIL: Mr. Pendleton, he says you're wrong on all these points. Let's start with the -- that the NAACP is non-partisan and did not endorse Mondale-Ferraro.

Mr. PENDLETON: Well, it's true that the NAACP didn't endorse Mondale-Ferraro, but Mr. Hooks' comments throughout this whole process of the campaign has been anti-Reagan. A lot of the things have been anti-me, and I understand that, and that's a part of the role he has to play. When I talked about parity, there's constant talk about unemployment, there's constant talk about poverty. There's constant talk about the government having to do all these things for people to try to come up with some government-induced way to deal with poverty or to come up with parity. That's the kind of parity I'm talking about. I would agree with him; in the long history of the NAACP a lot of us are much better off in terms of where we were in this country many, many years ago, especially when NAACP first started. And I think it is very clear that the biggest promoters of the special interest programs were black organizations, certainly not in terms of where Mr. Hooks is, but in terms of where it is that a government has a responsibility to do things, whether his organization would do them or not, I think he is one that has promoted the causing of services to be delivered, and not that his organization has delivered those services.

MacNEIL: How about that?

Mr. PENDLETON: What is very clear --

MacNEIL: You're for more intervention -- government intervention in the economy?

Mr. HOOKS: I have no problem with government intervention because, having been born and raised in the South, we discovered without the Voting Rights Act, for instance, we would not have been able to vote in the South. We had to prove, in getting that bill passed 19 years ago, that we could not do anything with state aid, and when we hear this administration talk about states rights, it's very frightening because we have been through that era.

MacNEIL: But on the poverty question?

Mr. HOOKS: On the poverty question the fact of the matter is that we have not solved it. There's no question about that, but you know, I heard a man say the other day, why in the world do we have all of these churches on every corner when there is still crime and robbery and murder? You know, that's a negative factor that exists. My question would be, where would we be without it? There has been substantial evidence, and many polls have found, that the poverty programs did indeed work, that we're further ahead than we would have been. Now, the fact that we have not reached the millenium, have not reached parity, is something yet to be done, and we do believe -- we have a fair-share program. We have signed more than 80 agreements with private industry trying to create an enterprenurial basis for black people, and we continue to try to deal with private industry in order to advance the cause of black people.

MacNEIL: Mr. Pendleton, is your message that if blacks would wake up they'd discover that by supporting the Republicans and Ronald Reagan they would get out of poverty just as fast or faster than they would under the programs that Mr. Hooks and his colleagues support? Is that what you're saying?

Mr. PENDLETON: I think the Reagan program's on option. When I heard in the last electoral campaign -- I did not hear options for people. I heard it was one way or no way. And what I'm saying to the black people, you don't have to be a Republican or believe in Ronald Reagan, but look very carefully at the issues in the political arena and vote the way you think is most appropriate for you to make the best possible gains. A vote is a very, very precious thing, and I would hope that people would exercise it with much more caution and with much more responsibility. I do think that one of the biggest things that the black leadership could do would be to attempt to get blacks to take their lives back from government, to talk about more self-sufficiency, to look at those programs that leave more money in the private sector and not in the public sector. Government cannot create jobs. It can only take jobs from the private sector and put them in the public sector at a much higher cost.

MacNEIL: Mr. Hooks?

Mr. PENDLETON: And the less government --

Mr. HOOKS: Let me just quickly say it really bothers me -- of course, this is an entirely different speech today than the speech you quoted from the beginning, and there's no question about that. But, secondly, we have mammoth corporate entities that paid not a dime in income tax because of governmental policy. We have mammoth defense contractors that do multi-billion dollars in business with the government -- cost-plus, no competitive bidding. Why is it that the poorest segment of the nation is always told, don't you deal with the government, and the richest segment of the nation continually milks and fleeces the government, charging $15, $18 for a little saw that could be bought for 89"? We have proof that there is over $30-billion worth of fraud in the federal government procurement system, and yet everybody wants to lecture black folk: don't you bother the government.

MacNEIL: We have just a minute, and I want to pick up --

Mr. HOOKS: I'm simply saying that I do disagree with the philosophy. If we were giving away land to railroads, we gave away the air rights to the big corporate groups, we give away taxes, we have all kind of tax breaks for white people, but when black folk simply want enough to eat on until we can make our way -- and, let me finally say I do believe that we're going to try to meet with Mr. Reagan, and let us see whether or not there are programs that black folk and the Reagan administration can work on. I welcome the invitation. I look for Mr: Reagan to invite me.

MacNEIL: Mr. Pendleton --

Mr. HOOKS: -- so we can talk about those things.

MacNEIL: Mr. Pendleton, briefly, come back to Mr. Hooks' point.He says your problem is you're just in a small minority among blacks.

Mr. PENDLETON: Oh, my mail tells me a lot different. It's the same -- if he read the entire speech, some of what he talks about is what I talk about, and at the same time there are a lot of people, the same folks he talks about on the street corners and the churches and the shoeshine people and the busboys and what have you have all said to me, Mr. Pendleton, you're right, and you have just enough guts to take on the black leadership because we think there is a serious problem.

MacNEIL: We have to leave it there. Mr. Pendleton, thank you, from San Diego, Mr. Hooks in New York. Jim? Portland's Mayor: Unusual Politician

LEHRER: We finish up tonight with a profile of Bud Clark.Unless you live in or around Portland, Oregon, you probably have not heard of him, but there is every reason to believe that may soon change. After swamping all opposition in a non-partisan primary, he was formally elected mayor of Portland earlier this month. He is no ordinary politician. Eileen Pincus-Walker of public station KOAP Portland is our profiler.

EILEEN PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: He loks more like a storefront Santa Claus than mayor of the fourth largest city on the West Coast.

BUD CLARK, Mayor-elect of Portland, Oregon [campaigning]: For Bud Clark, friendly Bud Clark for Mayor.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: You won't find a more unlikely politician. At ege 53, this ex-Marine, now a successful businessman, had never held elective office before. Not unless you count a 1949 term as assistant class treasurer at Portland's Lincoln High. Before the mayor's race, Bud Clark was best known as owner of the Goose Hollow Inn, and as a chronic volunteer for everything from neighborhood associations to something called the Veneral Disease Action Council. He also became something of a local celebrity after posing for this popular poster for the arts.

Mayor-elect CLARK: And I was walking down the street and it was raining one morning and I had on a pair of short pants and then I had on a poncho that I wore and it looked like I didn't have any clothes on, but mostly they were all looking --

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: Few took him seriously when he announced he was challenging the incumbent mayor, Frank Ivancie, a 27-year political veteran thought to be unbeatable. Even Clark's close friends had their doubts.

MIKE RYERSON, Clark aide: I was willing to work and do my best, but to be very honest with you, I didn't think he'd win.

GEORGE LEE, Clark aide: I said, when he called me, I don't think you're going to be able to make it, and I've got some other things to do.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: Clark wound up mortgaging his own home to finance the campaign, and, with the help of lumberman Bob McCracken [?], secured an initial $45,000 in loans.

[interviewing] Why did you decide to run?

Mayor-elect CLARK: Because nobody had taken up the challenge. No professional politican had taken up the challenge of running for the office of mayor of the city of Portland, and I didn't think that the person in the office was doing the right kind of job. I thought he'd lost touch with the public and he was not representing the city the way I thought it ought to be represented.

NEWSCASTER [May, 1984]: They are predicting Bud Clark the next mayor of Portland over incumbent Frank Ivancie. Quite an upset in the mayor's race. The polls showed them very close --

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: Election night, May '84. Clark's strategy had been to get enough votes to force a run-off in November.Instead he wound up with a solid victory. Even Clark couldn't hide his surprise.

Mayor-elect CLARK: Well, there the scores are now -- 50%-45. Oh, that's wonderful, isn't it? That's wonderful! Yeah, that's amazing.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: The upset caught local reporters so off guard they were reduced to asking the tough questions after the race was all over.

REPORTER: Okay, some people may wonder, Bud Clark, a mayor? What's his political experience? How can he run a city the size of the city of Portland?

Mayor-elect CLARK: There's no problem.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: Mayor Ivancie had been so sure of an easy victory he didn't even campaign against Clark. Meanwhile, the challenger was busy turning inexperience into a charming asset.

Mayor-elect CLARK: I've always wanted to speak in front of the City Club.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: Clark ran an old-fashioned shoe-leather and press-the-flesh campaign. The secret weapon? Legions of volunteers, many of them faithful patrons of Clark's tavern for years, and a largely unpaid staff. And he did it without help from the city's powerful or their money. He even didn't it without making a single campaign promise other than to listen.

Mayor-elect CLARK: That's a good idea, Mr. Tramp.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: The mayor-elect admits he did not have to address hard issues like crime and unemployment in a campaign that centered on personalities. But he says that does not mean there is no plan for dealing with them.

[interviewing] Youth unemployment?

Mayor-elect CLARK: That's the biggest problem going for us.That's in my estimation.

PINCUS-WALKER: What can you do about it?

Mayor-elect CLARK: There's a variety of things we can do. First of all, we can focus and say this is a major problem and get the whole community focused on it.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: He calls it government from the ground up, and getting people together to talk about problems is about as specific as Clark will get before he officially becomes mayor in January. But there are some indications of his priorities.

Mayor-elect CLARK: But when you see a police car coming up the street you don't feel like they're on your side. There should be a greater alliance, a greater communication between the police and the citizens of the city, because they're a service to the city. They shouldn't be in like the occupying army.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: Clark says he wants cops out on foot patrol around the city and he wants to increase police morale, but not necessarily through bigger budgets.

[interviewing] Again, do they need more money? Do we need more policemen?

Mayor-elect CLARK: I think they've got too much money.

PINCUS-WALKER: Do you?

Mayor-elect CLARK: I said that, didn't I?

PINCUS-WALKER: You did.

Mayor-elect CLARK: Well, I think government spends too much money generally.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: In fact, under that happy-go-lucky image, say his supporters, lies a tough businessman who will keep a tight rein on city finances.

Mr. LEE: I think he's probably a fiscal conservative. I mean, if you want to attach a label to it.

BEN PADROW, Clark campaign manager: First of all, he's a small businessman who came from nothing to an operation where he grosses close onto a million dollars a year. He has the tightest pencil I've ever seen in my life.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: One of the few things he has said he is willing to spend money on is a major convention facility for Portland. He's at least entertaining a recent City Club suggestion the city legalize prostitution and zone it. But his biggest priority is economic development -- that's selling his city to the rest of the country.

Mayor-elect CLARK: But I think that's the mayor's job, is to be salesman of the city, and I think that's what the previous administration wasn't doing. Portland's been undersold. They don't realize what a wonderful place we have here, in most of the United States.

JOHNNY CARSON, The Tonight Show: Would you welcome Bud Clark?

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: The chance to sell his city is why Clark says he's accepted the attention of the national media, which so far seen more attracted by his antics than his message.

DON OLIVER, NBC newscaster: He must exhibit a combination of political and administrative skills, and if he's not up to the task, he may have exposed himself and the city to a host of new problems.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: His critics grumble the national focus on the mayor's eccentricities makes him and his city look foolish.

Mr. CARSON: But as mayor you've got to run a city. I mean, what --

Mayor-elect CLARK: Well, I want you to know I'm taking a course in public administration from Portland State College.

Mr. CARSON: You're taking a course now?

Mayor-elect CLARK: You're darn right. And I don't see anything wrong with that, do you? I mean, isn't that important?

Mr. CARSON: No, that's wonderful.

PINCUS-WALKER: Do you ever feel like it gets in the way of your message? Do people tend to not take you seriously?

Mayor-elect CLARK: No, I think they take me very seriously in many things, and I think the message is that you can act with great individuality and you're still tolerated. I mean, so many people think -- without asking they think of the world as being very straightlaced and you're supposed to be exactly this way, otherwise you're a deviant of some kind. But we're all deviants of some kind.

PINCUS-WALKER [voice-over]: The mayor-elect knows the job won't be easy. That's why he took his first college class in public administration -- to prepare for the job. But after all, he reminds you, he did act that class.

Mayor-elect CLARK: Like I said before, I didn't need the job, but I thought the job needed doing.

MacNEIL: In Bogota, Colombia, a Colombian woman was killed and eight other Colombians were injured today by the explosion of a car bomb outside the American Embassy. Twelve days ago cocaine smugglers threatened to kill Americans if Colombia continued to extradite Colombians to the United States to face drug charges.

Once again the main stories of the day. Several major banks reduced their prime lending rate to 11.5%.

Artificial heart recipient William Schroeder was reported to be looking great, still in critical but stable condition.

The United States resumed diplomatic relations with Iraq after 17 years.

The World Court said no to an American request to drop a complaint by Nicaragua. Good night, Jim.

Good night, Jim.

LEHRER: Good night, Robin. And we'll see you tomorrow night. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.