Seminars in theatre; Episode 30 of 31

This is seminars in theatre a series of discussions with leading members of the theatrical profession who comment on the problems and pleasures of life in the theatre. Here now is the host of seminars in theatre. Richard Pyatt Good evening and welcome to another discussion on Theatre in New York and the country at large. Tonight we and I've called this organization every wrong name before we started dating so the first thing I'm going to do is read the name of a guest of from John Jay College of Criminal Justice. I've gotten that much straight and I have more guests than we usually. But to start off. Professor Ben Turner mean. Who initiated the drama course at John Jay and has directed all of its productions to date. That's a term ean has pioneered in the American Theater Wing with causes and speech communication humanities and drama at Roosevelt Mount Sinai nursing schools he also teaches these

subjects at several institutions here in the city and in the university community off-Broadway stock an Equity Library theater circuit. But as a term menas directed plays of all genre from Guys and Dolls to the cretin woman and incidentally last summer he served as chairman of the information committee of the American educational Theatre Association convention in New York City. Also On Our panel is Professor Flora Schreiber whose career spans a number of activities. Early career was in the theater and she was the recipient of the Skinner scholarship. She studied at the Central School of Speech training in dramatic art in the University of London. Was an assistant director of a production of All's Well That Ends Well at Stratford on Avon in England and for a number of years he was a drama critic of the players magazine. Her later career has been the double life of a professor and a journalist. She's the author of your child's speech. William Schuman a biography of your child's speech Dr. Walter C. Alvarez wrote a marvelous book

that should be in every home where there are young children I might add. It's that model that you should be in every journal dramatic are department of every college the journalistic assignments that have taken ever in the some cases the under-world she's written exposé is about criminal elements. They've taken her from there to the White House. She's written for major magazines about all presidents and their families from Harry Truman to Lyndon Johnson Johnson rather. And the roster of her Johnson pieces include 22 we could go on really without making a platitudinous statement about it about her activities that were just concluded saying that a current article farewell to the snakepit appears in the June Science Digest and it will be followed in July by race and crime and also in July. The July issue of Good Housekeeping carries an article by her about Richard Nixon. Other of our panel include Edward P. powers

a unit training sergeant with the seventy eight precinct captain Harry Bowman pension so well as an illustrator at the. Creative Services then captain and administrative services unit police woman Ethel Brown who has been with the police department and the youth bureau for several years and Senator Robert Byrd was temporarily assigned to the police academy as an instructor and he has also led to a service training which is on Channel 31. WNYC TV one of the longest introductions we've had in a long time and that it is taking up a good five minutes of our show. But let's start off first of all I want to just put a frame of reference around some of our guests. The most recent production of the John Jay College was Sidney Kingsley detective story and

it's present in that production played the life of the detective MacLeod and Lieutenant Robert Burke played in the cloud. And I'm going to have to ask Mr. Powers what part. He played in that production. Unfortunately I was heartbroken because I wasn't and I didn't and apparently you've been in other productions. That's right. Right. And Captain promising Were you in the summer production of this year when I was in the book and that was from last year. Right. OK so now our listeners throughout the state will know why we have policemen on our seminars and theater program or I should say these official sounding titles with captains and all of that. First of all I want to go back just about a few years and determine how you came about setting up a drama department at the John Jay College of Law who's responsible for that.

But as ATTORNEY Well I think that the reason that the drama department was set up was the same reason that you would have in any liberal arts college the fact that drama is a very necessary and important part of the system of education. Well there are many educators who feel the dramas in consequential are not necessarily part of the liberal arts and I think anyone who feels this really doesn't hasn't had too much experience in terms of really living and fully living there you know I think in her and you know the university never had a drama department. But nevertheless I was both it doesn't matter what we did we don't have a drama department we have. We offer two courses in drama where two goes out of here as a drama one in a drama to a drama to a one is primarily concerned with dealing with history of the theatre drama to O2 has to

do with the present acting technique. We're tired of reading him back next to you to it too. Well it's something that I've developed over a period of years. Part of the part of the work has to do with what some people call the method acting. Part of it has to do with the externals. It's a matter of fact I had written an article that was in the trade about 10 or 15 years ago in which I talked about the three in one technique which has to do with the training specific training of the voice specific training of the body and then the integration of that specific training into the acting schools and so that my emphasis isn't just the method although we do spend a great deal of time on that we spend some time. On some of the things that we call moment to moment reality

we spend time on condition this is you know the size of the room cold so for headaches. We spend time on needs and actions. We have a running and a running acquaintance with much of the terms and so forth and the kinds of exercises that we use in what they call the method school but in addition to that we also have very clear direction in terms of the use of the body. The use of the voice. When I was at the American Theater Wing I taught each one of those classes separately that as I would teach let's say the body movement to one group and another teacher would teach. Voice and another one the acting and the three would be integrated this was a part of the program at the American Theatre of all that's quite an extensive 2 0 2 I would say of all the people.

Media town or have they all had classes with you. This was not a day I think will come out to people eventual children to have had two or one who have the two or to just one just one are but what is your what was your reaction to it. I mean assuming that you had no previous introduction to acting techniques or had you know I had when you had these courses What was your reaction to it. Well. The way I interpreted at the end was that it helped to bring together all the other training that I had other words for my psychology sociology course when we were dealing with psychological needs. What does it mean to be a man who has a certain drive such as McLeod had in the plague. How would he react to certain types of individuals and having to understand him. I really couldn't

start to understand an individual unless I had some idea of psychological needs social logical mores or values that people develop. And I think that in this type of course not only did I learn something about the techniques but it also sort of merged all the other liberal arts courses that I had going back to this with everybody. Schreiber I just want to go to a bit of history of John Jay College. What type of college is it is it exclusively a liberal arts college. The granting of B.A. or graduate degrees. Or is there a kind of specialized teaching that goes on there and there is no specialized teaching. It is not strictly speaking a liberal arts college although 80 percent of its courses are in humanities which sounds like a paradox. When I say it is not strictly a liberal arts college I mean that the composition of its student

body is specialized about that. They are studying subjects that any college due to studying and their interest is in learning for learning sake and not for vocational reasons. We are not a trade school. We are a senior college at the City University. Completely autonomous in the same way that Brooklyn Queens and the other senior colleges are autonomous. We report to the City University and through it to the Board of Higher Education. John Jay College of Criminal Justice the criminal justice part is not it is not meaningful it's just sort of a generic. Well it's meaningful in the terms of a composition of Austrian body and also in terms of some of the major fields a student is not majoring in archaeology at John Jay College he will be majoring in the social sciences or in criminal justice and so forth. So that as far as the

basic courses are concerned they parallel those of the other colleges at the City University but the majors tend to be in criminal justice. As a listener the idea goes on a John J in terms of the student body that would go there. Getting to this the last production in the detective story which was I would say a good production and I would say well you got to say something that I think if you ever get there. I didn't really get it now I doubt we had by you. Yes I was there I didn't see you either the production was a good one and I said with reservations because I'm not applying the saying criterion that I would for several reasons because I saw a number of technical flaws in the production and just in terms of movement in terms of eye

level in terms of many many many things but leaving those things aside there is an intensity and reality that I wondered about because I hadn't seen any of the other productions whether the subject of this play was particularly meaningful to the cast because after all it does deal with a form of police brutality and we can't escape the fact that that's what's making the headlines every day. But Lieutenant Bergin. In playing out this kind of drive in the crowd. Did you see or did you. Did you experience a parallel of feeling in terms of getting a different perspective about the interpretation of whatever is going on in our society with law enforcement authorities and the citizens. Well I first of all I didn't feel that McLeod was sadistic. He may have been brutal in his treatment of the

people but he didn't do it out of sadism or an enjoyment of seeing them suffer he did. It was a byproduct of his his drive to get the lay bare their souls get the conviction get this statement. And this is the way I attack the problem. I had to convince myself that you know that this man was guilty and I had to treat him you know be overly aggressive towards him. That's how I saw the role. The same thing when I was faced with the problem of dealing with my wife. The conflict in the in the place where I find out that she has this floor and her character wasn't aware of I had to keep constantly aware of the fact that I couldn't see any thing but my point of view I couldn't compromise. And you know it's interesting that I found this. Once we got before the audience it was all right in rehearsal but before the audience it was very hard to keep this thing going when everybody around me is getting laughs and everybody

likes everybody. Yeah all of a sudden you realize you are that Hedwig. That's an interesting feeling you express because. But I did notice that when certain people game on stage because of familiarity and outside familiarity there were there's laughter from the audience if you didn't know the people you were wondering what what happened there why was everyone laughing. You recognized it as a laugh really a recognition of some aspect of the character that you know on the outside. Well without a messianic Dr. Janet Berg as as evil as a sadistic drive in its consequences are definitely as an artifact. This is something you try to avoid screening candidates. People who would be overzealous in the performance of duty. You want somebody who can be who can see that somebody has done something wrong but you still treat him as a human being.

Just the fact that he's committed a crime doesn't give you the right to abuse him. And this is what the clouds sort of represent this kind of messianic figure. Right. Mr. Powers your unit training sergeant you're certainly a precinct. What basic training are you involved in. Well oddly enough I see Lieutenant Burke nearly every day of my working life on television. And then as I have my discussion following a television program. As to things he's discussed then than precinct conditions to keep any new innovations in the job current practices are history. So each man gets contacted daily as to what they're supposed to do and how to implement whatever policies being put into effect. You've been in previous productions at John Jay. Yes I was in the first drama class at John Jay and listen to some of the discussion particularly I did it. What places did a place say in a cop's role.

For myself it was probably my first introduction to any of the humanities and for myself personally it probably changed my life. And this is that I was well into my 30s when I first came across drama. I signed up for the drama course because I haven't attended school long enough to have a briefing with sociology and psychology. I wanted to make myself as open as possible to new experiences. I found that I signed up for the course and the negativity. I was good at Professor to mean as I said he was going to put a play on. And he wanted to know who would partake. And nobody raise a hand and everybody sat back. And suddenly my hand shot out and I don't think I sent that up and it was standing there and I had it listed for a role in the play. And it's been fantastically good. I think anyone can benefit from partaking in

plate production and any form of drama Well it seems that this form of activity is being used more and more today to work out. There is problems I would question the number of people on the on the possibilities of this technique of utilizing dramatic techniques to work out other social problems for example running right now and we've had them on as a group that runs de top village and sort of a re-entry program for narcotics narcotics an addict and through working this out in a dramatic fashion. They're not only in a sense to help themselves to divert their earlier interest but even come up with an exciting piece of theatre which would interest you to read about the other things in his mind.

This is all I think this is a takeoff on cycle. It's in that field that basically the same although they claim it's quite distinct from psychedelics I asked that question. Maybe getting into semantics or schools of thought but basically it's role playing and understanding someone else's needs. I wouldn't know that any time you get an insight into any other facet of your personality or somebody else's personally such as you would well playing a role or watching someone else reacting to somebody else's role. I think this explains your understanding of anyone or anyone else you know outside your own framework and well kept interesting we haven't heard from you yet and I have also that in previous productions. I don't know one which one was that I was top and he pulled a Korean version of Everest company the bird. Well we're used to when you have a title like that and especially when you're in a localized situation have any experiences with that title from in any of your friends and they give you the first time in.

Well originally this title as you said gave me many sleepless nights. Yeah I didn't join this group for any therapy for myself or for anybody else I joined it purely because it was being offered by the college in a little. It was something that I could. Get my credits for and my primary purpose in taking this course and all course it was to get my eighth. And when we did it during the beginning of the inception of the course I missed a term mean I asked for suggestions as to what play to put on. Originally my suggestion was the 12 Angry Men and there were other suggestions and then we got into readings first readings being a New York fight in this

area I didn't even know what a first reading meant until Materne mean explain it to us. After a few readings and with attorney notified me that I was selected for the part of the DS which was a major part in the birds. I accept. That and with a little bit a little bit of trepidation because I the play itself seemed to me sort of offbeat. I'm like detective story or 12 Angry Man it's something it's different. But I went along with the chorus I had no way of backing out without languishing my eighth. I went along with it and then I became even further to say you're nervous about the situation when I found that the costume and I would have to be on stage in front of people policemen others with a skirt. And I conveyed my

feelings to Materne men and said to him under those circumstances what I have here in a skirt and this is this is one of the things that that around me because after 20 years and as a police officer you seem to get a certain image of yourself and you feel that suddenly you're going to destroy this image in front of people you know. But the die was cast and I found myself doing the pod throwing myself it was so it seemed to me so well done. And there were so many obstacles amateur mean had commanded that I would say to the children or of his ability and I resolved to do all I could to make this player. Success which I know was from the reviews that came out there after a matter of fact I don't see the version but our drummer of the wood did go and gave it a very good review as a matter of fact which leads me to ask you as to me why you would pick a

play like The Byrds with which requires great skill in acting and training etc.. And it isn't as easy to do I would say offhand as the detective story because the detective story is so relevant and so contemporary. Well I think one of the reasons was that this is part of the college program and that the this particular play is so playable water currents acting version of it. It's more like a top banana musical revue and I think this will and Dean Aristophanes approach to it is one grand Saturnalia. And the whole situation is so generic to the whole development of the drama and so forth that as a course for the history of the thing that is the combination of the play that is a combination of of course it is in the history of the theatre. This is an ideal type of thing although as

Captain Blum and suggesting as I said the class did ultimately vote on this. But this sort of goes back to one of the questions that you had earlier the problem of socio drama psychodrama not taken all of them and I had Marino itself you know drama and the damn star appeal when I was saying Elizabeth in New York. Yeah trick work and so forth. All of this business that we all seem to be looking at today as being a brand new venture and this is the way people are beginning to express themselves only shows that we really don't know very much about the nature of drama because drama itself began this very way. It was a an expression a cathartic expression in which the term itself read Creation recreation of people come for recreation and so the actors also have it. It's a renewal it's a development of one's own personality it's a way of seeing

oneself a way of directly communicating with society and I don't understand why people still have to question the problem of why drama. Why do you have to have. Because there is nothing that is more direct and more positive as a means of communication and all of these sort of deflections that we're talking about that seem to be so great you know and I think that really I ever just cautious wary of hardcore of course itself. I think I think there's a lot in what you say because to me however I think we overlook the fact that if we were as a social group. Able to receive the catharsis you talk about from various productions that we see. I don't think it would be a question however. We've moved away from a theatre of emotion and catharsis to a set of ideas and boredom and faulty productions which has in some way prevented theatre from its original purpose. We have to stay that you know and that's where these questions come in

and why are we staying out that we were really moving away from the era of verbal expression and ideas to theater of sort of a sensory theater which is fine but it's a mom bombardment of the senses more or less you know thought of the theater of the absurd and my own feeling is that life itself are so absurd that we need a theater that is not absurd. Give us the organizational integration that we don't have in life. Well one of the problems about the life and theater of the absurd is that verbal expression is such a poor way is a poor way of communication but isn't the whole man it isn't reflective of the whole man but drama in a way does narrow the whole curriculum to fit talk and academic this drama has roots and its roots our society and his Crain religion psychology and sociology are academically this also because you know if you see the oneness.

Well this is the theoretical. Professor Shriver this this is wonderful this is marvelous and this is you know we could we could look into these academic crevices and crannies and we will find that it has a relationship to all of these things but what I'm talking about is when it's on the board and when it's being performed Have you seen a decent production of more than one or two decent productions of anything in the past year assuming that you go to the theater. I would say no. And I'm and it's not being very harsh we have a production coming production hair now. Hair is a success for all the wrong reasons really. But success by default I would say so. You see I haven't seen it so well from the time I get in gratis as I get into hair but the other one of course we haven't heard here and policewoman Ethel Breslin and Captain when as they were talking about it want to break

down any images that he had established over the years in appearing in a skirt. I can well understand that his performance was authentic and real. All the more problems. But being a policewoman is better and acting the part of MacLeod's life. Are you concerned about any image that some of your youth. Because you have you are working with. I see here with members of the bureau with me that you're working with and I assume that some of them must have seen you in this performance. Do you have any concern about your image in this connection.