The American journal; American spokesman, part 1

The American Journal produced for a national educational radio under a grant from the National Home Library Foundation in collaboration with the University of Wisconsin radio station WAGA and Riverside radio WRVA are in New York. Well. I think we live in a country with the last generation of London Paul a lot about but no country is ever in the world preoccupied with size and all that. We're all out out on the floor laughing. I believe that love is something that our company come up with people over the world desperately hungry to know something about virtue.

Or. The American Journal. I look at the fine arts and the not so fine arts in America today. This series is not a history not a diary not a seminar not a critique. It's a few people in four hour long programs talking about the fine arts will not be hard. Or precious or obscure oblique or obtuse far out or far yes or anything but honest about the whole business. We could say this series is dedicated to all of the Fine Arts Theatre literature meeting music poetry but that's pretty precious right there. And it's only half the truth to boot. This series is really dedicated to the proposition that the finest of all ours is living how to live a fuller life without emptying out your

neighbors. That's where the art comes in. In 20th century America one is hard put to find a man who speaks for our age. The man from IBM has one viewpoint. The poet in the coffeehouse has another. And yet neither is a whole man in the artistic sense. Where is the American spokesman. Practical enough to move successfully in the corridors of power and yet poetical enough to understand what the hell it all means. Where do we find this hip character. The Pentagon Broadway General Motors Cape Canaveral. There's a growing feeling afoot that this 20th century American Paragon is not an American at all but a British or a character named Charles Percy snow a

scientist who writes books and swings with the best of them. Some people regard Sir Charles as a scientific novelist. Others call him a novelistic scientist. Is English contemporary William Cooper simply says the piece no is a novelist of unique experience at a period of history when the worlds of literature and of science and technology all sharply separate from each other. He has come to hold a key position in both worlds simultaneously a novelist by vocation. He is also a scientific administrator and man of affairs. A molecular physicist Sir Charles has served Britain both in industry and in government. Yet for him the scientific man is not the complete man. The stars mean astronomy and poetry too. In his writings Sir Charles is concerned about the struggle for power among men. So you might add are 90 percent of the expense account executives in this country.

But snow is also vitally concerned with the moral problems that the ambitious man constantly faces and that is Robert Frost used to say has made all the difference by way of credentials Sir Charles has taught English of all things at the University of California Berkeley of all places. And his novel The affair was a book of the month selection. It's hard to get more American than that even if you were born here. Here's our man Studs Terkel talking to Sir Charles a while back in London. Here's here is your protagonist defending someone who may not be too in Dering who is not too popular maybe not too good a man and yet and. And an act of injustice is being done. And a sense of virtue here too seems to be. Yes that's the point of it is that this is a man whom no one could really like. But a lot of people for your own a lot of the of the characters going to feel it. It is. Significant and necessary. They

should do something for him because he's been treated badly but remember these aren't Superman. These aren't people who are living in a moral vacuum at all for comparatively selfish human beings will often find their own immediate concerns get in the way of. Doing virtuous acts but nevertheless. Virtue is pressing on their conscience as approaching them and most of them do contrive within their human limits to behave fairly well and I believe many people are capable and perhaps to search out what has fascinated and attracted many Americans and others readers to do your work for your novels the fact that when you treat men of science these are flesh and blood men with frailties not not cartoon Superman. Fact that these are. Men we recognize. Yes that's my intention for now as well if you know that just just as you would as well but with all your interest

above the burden of that as a no get out of Moscow with an enormous additional hundred thousand copies not just saying exactly the same things that you said above I think I think in a way the dark room of the affair could be a microcosm of the world couldn't it. I'm just wondering if it was of course intended in symbolic significance as well as the media to try to stick significant perhaps search out we could even expand on this I remember it was an article I read in American magazine and The Nation article of yours perhaps is a reprint and you spoke of the world of the England today being a kinder one the one to which you were born in one thousand five hundred now about the human species. Yes I this is. It reminds me of something I was listening to in hospital and one has to get up much of the last awake much earlier than I would normally do it at home so at 7:00 I was listening to a Catholic priest. Called Father Desmond Wilson. Talking very much indeed of the way I myself because I've never met him but he

obviously shares many of the same attitudes. He was talking he was proud of the passionate concern of our time. But that he meant the passionate concern of a large part. Of the world for the less likely. Remember this is quite a new thing I mean in the 18th century you had treated the poor as though they were animals. And it was a rare and Radha cranky thing to do anything for them at all and think of them as anything but responsible for their own misfortunes. This is gong to a very considerable extent from. Our sort of society that's a very good thing it has grown. I mean the food was poor. Leisure was. Almost nonexistent. My grandfather was a very intelligent man and educated himself but entirely by himself. And this was the human condition very very recently. And. I. Think we're all extremely lucky. To have been born a little later.

What are the problems today we're faced and you point out. Aptly the three problems of the hunger the great enclaves of hunger in the world outside of the highly industrialized countries. In which you and I live. That's one the population explosion and of course that there are that overhanging mushroom. Yeah. Now we may perhaps. The approach to the hunger of the world. The way we live today. Yes well I think that the. Best guess is that it's. Probably a. Rather more than one half of the world's population haven't really enough to eat. That is they're not eating comfortably enough to keep them in full condition and probably about a third are really hungry to a man nutritionally or let's a brute. And simple thing. And we mustn't. Bruton's simple things it's very easy when you're living comfortably to. Try animal slide these things away. But this is until we get this problem settled men of decent

good will. Oughtn't to rest easy. None of it is simple fact is that two fifths of the world's adult population still can't read. Let's bet it is striking and it may not seem that it matters to us to be able to read we think rather foolish cloud cuckooland when simple Arcadians just Dom's whatnot. It isn't what the world is like if you can't read and if you haven't enough to eat. Then in effect you have a vet in my piece done for the major respirations of man. I suppose the word democracy the word freedom and liberty may have a secondary meaning a man whose stomach is grounding. That is. Very of at a second rate if you are shy if you are hungry and you can't read then in fact you're going to. Rectify that by the most violent means of people willing to help you to rectify it by peaceful means and that's where we come in. How then we come in. Well. There isn't enough knowledge in the

world. To produce food. And. Modest domestic Amine that is for the whole of the human race. If we can only solve the problems of getting to work at it. And this of course is not exact. We never announced. There was a great deal of good will in the world of the United States has done a lot. But. It is nothing like enough. And. We probably can't solve it. Whilst we have great. Troubles which are consuming. Great an enormous amount of that emotional and psychological resources that is whilst the United States and Russia. Are the two greatest and best role using not only their material resources I do that is important but not it's not the whole truth as long as when I was using an awful lot

of the best man the best will. Even. The strongest emotion was in preparing for a Cold War then in the face many problems which could be solved but. I'm more hopeful about the outcome now than I and I think I ever have but I believe unless we get. The spread of these bombs control order. Then probably some of them will go off. But I'm nothing but a. Beast for a appreciable time for the next 10 or 15 years I think the governments of the United States and. Soviet Union are both. Very cool headed. Very irrational governments and I believe that while they can hold the majority of the overwhelming majority of these things. It's unlikely that we will have anything like a major catastrophe. And the sooner we.

In my view that we spend less on the rather absurd. And expensive competition bike space races and more on things which are going to do. Immediate and vital good. For immediate and vital needs then I believe the world will be a better place when they search out perhaps explore another problem that it's in the minds of many in the minds of men. Our population explosion so to what extent this explosion happening and how. Manners are ways and means. The explosion I think is. Real or it does seem to happen. None of us quite know why. In the very early stages our own. Improvement in a population explosion is a sign of course that things are getting slightly better. That is that the population of. Them. Multiplied by about four between 1760 and the end of the 19th century with the industrial revolution I think it's probably because

you get elementary medical care and the children don't die so fast that's probably the most important single part of it but no one understands or complete the island which was desperate for same. I was in fact include increasing creasing it's population but a farce. Anyway it's happening now and it's happening all over the world in. All countries except all countries of Western Europe you're having a mild population explosion yourself an alien medic and population going up much faster than anyone would have thought. Possible 30 years ago we've all think in the medical reached a static state which it hasn't. Leveled off a bit. Now somehow. This can't go on forever on this my There's a point beyond which this can't maintain an indefinite break but I believe the actual. Permissible population is rather bigger than most but I'm

not quite as pessimistic on this issue as many people I don't regard it as anything like as if the other two problems were brought up not immediately but over the ultimate plan. But we've just we've just got to spread the knowledge we've just got to say the world cannot see you or the bowels that mankind can bring you and we've got to we've got to use reason and sense such as you mention education. You dwell on this a good deal. Very perceptively indeed in America at the moment something that interesting is taking place perhaps sad I was asked to comment on this ever since Sputnik efforts have been to send as many kids as possible into the schools of. Which the physical sciences are being emphasized and something at the expense of the humanities. Is this. You're feeding on this since your foot is not where. I've thought a lot about American education and more thought about it closely believe very much in Anglo American exchange and we've got a daughter at an American college

at this moment and both boys will go. When I was twenty one and the other 10 will go to some American institutions later in their career. I've got. A great respect for a great deal of education I think a college education and. In principle at least and in many respects and is as good as anything the world's signal is right at sea for a long time. I do think primer and high school education leaves a good deal to be desired. We've seen that we've been truly lived in. Various parts and had children and I think. You are. Not doing as well as you should. Popular for good reasons I mean the concept of educating everybody which is I believe right. But promptly oddly enough truly an American good nature. Don't you want to make children happy and you don't believe that children are happy if they work. Now I should have

thought that in fact children are usually more unhappy if they if they don't work when if they do. And we're always appalled at how little children up to the age of say 12 in the very valuable years between 6 and 12 when. At least professionally teach their children an awful lot of friendship that in simple mathematics and so on. Whereas I must have been a medic in high schools only 12 when they sing be happy but. It didn't seem to have the benefit of the phrase we use it out of adjustment and that's a matter of the way we look for that. Well I just did man by Wonder just to what extent he's a man that's not working. Will you go. Course we have the same type of problem you have to bring in people from all over the world to make them into country and that obvious to meant an extra effort which most countries have been spurred on one can understand that and I think you're getting something from this I think it is true. When you get to

college or an American boy or girl usually won't know as much in certain specialized subjects as an English or French boy or girl of the same age but in fact. There are more prepared to cope. With life with people around them then the European equivalent to Mexico. I don't I don't think you ought to laugh that off. It can be made of course entirely absurd when you see people adjusting madly and doing nothing else. Paula what's it all for odd points a chance much at all for you in this point since Sputnik this thing we call adjusting to the realism of the world today the realities of the world today this continuous shouting program is something we call a crash program that has to for the kids to learn the science as much as possible but that seems to be as a result of an outside Yes AB side impetus rather. Yes I must. The idea that everything ought to be regulated. Kind of majorly contests between you and

me. The Soviet Union that is not a good reason for alternate education I think is an awful lot but you can learn from Soviet education one can learn from your will but I don't want to be done because you think this is good as educational not because it means to be 6 months to the moon. Is something I was taken with such out as another point yet connected. You were talking about the Cassandra's of our day it was in the two cultures the scientific revolution and man again man's impotence in face of the overwhelming developments and you drew a line here and I like that. The line between the human condition and the social condition and this great confusion on our part that it. Yes that I said I stand by every word that I think we all know who are grown up appalled at a certain parts of our. Own individual alone the condition which is. Not rectifiable it's not controllable by will. It's not a thing which we can do anything about simply because we are human and this is our this is our fate.

But that is not a good reason. And it's although it's been made an excuse for not doing anything about the things we really can't handle just because one is going to die a finite time that isn't a good reason why lots of other people in the world should. Learn before they need twenty or thirty die in childbirth children. That is no reason at all to not. Media rating the social condition and making. As a model is first start making with the most people in the world live as close as we've managed to do in our bits in the United States ning. This points are the. Sort so often the confusion between the two. As an old spiritual American old lonesome valley you've got across that lonesome valley and you've got to do it by yourself. This refers to a man dying alone this is the human condition we can't help you but you you are emphasizing that need so much emphasis that man can work to

improve himself. Now this is the social convention about this we can do something. Exactly. And indeed I would but I don't believe the moon is fully a man and most of it is doing something about it was going to show an awful lot of lives is not live in immediate recognition of our own individual lone Moses lived human effort in human relations which are directed to purposes in order in the ordinary attempts to be like the better of them. Animal Man or abuse of any important role these are vital to infect the human Geim speak of virtues you know and this is perhaps they seem unfashionable and in our day of so much passion lessness and cynicism and there's affirmation here that is fresh and there were probably a centuries old but you speak a certain virtue. I remember that somewhat of a lecture given magnanimity. And this because of all the virtues that's the one you would most like to

have magnanimity. Yes for that I did and I would say it again and I would say going back to the point you introduced. I think people in. Our country the last generation have learned an awful lot about vice. No countries have ever been more preoccupied with vice in all its forms and all our art and almost all our thinking. I believe that. Lots of people in our countries and lots of people all over the world are desperately hungry to know something about virtue. But possibly in 20th century America we have an American

who speaks for all. In 20th century America an American who speaks for our age after all we are

the generation which shut down our own president in the back we break laws and fix parking tickets padded expense accounts and shaved basketball points. We invented payola kickback grease we can kill for money or kill for kicks. You name it we've been there. You can see it in our eyes. That's why Robinson Jeffers that old lone wolf of the West Coast. That's why he may be the guy who speaks for our America. While this America settles in the mold of its Vaal Garrity heavily thickening to empire and protest only a bubble in the molten mass pops and sighs out and the mass hardens. I sadly smiling remember that the flower fades to make fruit the

fruit rots to make earth out of the mother and through the spring exultant ripeness and decadence and home to the mother. You make haste on DK not blameworthy. Life is good. Be it stubbornly long or suddenly a mortal splendor. Meteors are not needed less than mountains shine perishing Republic. But for my children I would have them keep their distance from the thickening center. Corruption never has been compulsory. When the cities lie at the monster's feet there are left the mountains and nothing so moderate as in love man. A clever servant

insufferable master. There is the trap that catches Nobelist spirits that caught. They say God when He walked on earth. Are we becoming decadent. Have we lost our sense of value. Are we better than we used to be or worse. That is the question as it's been phrased for popular debate in recent years. We worse than we used to be. The trouble is someone here is a lair. Turpentine the cat who threw snowballs at my neighbor who did that. The trouble is somewhat ironic. Talk to them like that. Children good Lard. Then try adult.

Who is it cause the wreck attend to me. She did it is clear that someone did it but no one will admit it. Someone around here is a liar who spills the acid on the laboratory floor who cracked the glass in the boss's door who clog that toilet and will clog it some more if they had exactly a working man to protect his job for his family and who is it steals those office stamps or let someone else take the blame who are working through us to take care of ourselves no one else will. Two signals whose partner won playing a bridge or screws golf for one under the bridge held back the payment due on the fire for a fun time. Whose fantasy mistress has scrawled buried here who imagines a lover when her husband is not there which happy young marrieds dream an affair but swear they care. Somebody around here is a liar. You are so right.

But the living. And why does a new baby cry and live every day. We have some time. But you couldn't live without life. I'm in favor of lies of some kinds at the proper times now and then. Not like that. But you have to like the things I should like the things I should but can't. Like that never will. Dreadful don't I'm doing what I want but I always will

anyway. Like there's a million people starving to death and I'm fat. Things like that. I think of it sometimes when I scrape the garbage your balance.