Exploring the child's world III; More of Harry

There is little doubt in the minds of those who work with disturbed and delinquent children that planning for placement must be based on the needs of the children. The attitudes of the child usually prompt his activities and tailor them. This is why it is important to learn as much as one can about a child if one wants to understand his behavior. The best informant then is the child themselves. The boy you are about to hear is presently in the detention home awaiting a hearing on charges of auto larceny and running away from home. He is 13 years old and in the seventh grade in public school where he's a disciplinary problem in the house the boy is patterning himself and his uncle Harry for whom he was named. The uncle is 18 and has already spent two years in jail for robbery and assorted offenses. How he describes his female relatives as screaming people who must disapprove of him since they disapprove of everything he done has little support is offered by the community in which Harry lives. The boy exhibited considerable difficulty in discussing affection or love even for his own father and mother. When revealing his self-image Harry feels that he is as good as other boys when asked what he meant

by good he equated good with getting good grades in school. He also admitted that it would be pretty difficult to get worse grades and he gets like all boys Harry is extremely sensitive to unfair treatment. He resented being punished for two obvious accidents in school once he broke a plant accidentally and another time he failed to return to school on time because his mother was involved in an automobile collision in which both might have been killed. The boy was not allowed to visit his home on four weekends on both these occasions. Here then to take her story further is Father Duffy. It was once said that there's no such thing as a bad boy. This statement has never been allowed to die. A cynic would probably reply that there's no such thing as a good boy either. The truth probably lies somewhere between the optimistic and the pessimistic viewpoint. The same sort of debate could issue over the question of the responsibility of parents for the misbehavior of their

children. Parents who have no delinquent children would tend to blame delinquency on parents or parents of delinquent children would probably deny any responsibility on their part. Parents of delinquent children often recites a litany of what they did for their children and what they gave them. It is true of the children whose needs are met by their parents. Rarely become delinquent except by accident or by association. Even in these cases delinquency is rarely a recurrent thing. It does not become a prevailing pattern with the child whose needs are met. Again it is not likely that parents will fulfill their children's needs if they do not recognize what any child needs. The parents who fulfill their children's needs even though they do not know what these are do so by accident or by chance. But they are betting against overwhelming odds and they happen to be winning at the moment.

Are children so mysterious that we don't know what their needs are. It's fairly clear the children need security. They will not feel secure if their parents are divorced or if the parents are together but continually fight and argue threaten each other get intoxicated children need to grow into a pattern they must establish patterns of thinking feeling acting that are acceptable in the society in which they live. One element in the pattern is language. A child will learn to use the kind of language that he hears. A child learns by associating this brings up to another need which every child has the need to be loved in such a way that it never occurs to him to ask whether he's loved or wanted or welcome. A child also needs to have a limit set for him. The spoiled child is the one who gets love and gets things but no limits are set for him.

The child who receives limits without love is apt to become neglected dependent or abused. A child needs to grow in areas of responsibility. He must learn that he does not live for himself alone. He has to share his surplus with others. He has to learn to give himself when there is no return. He has to learn to take charge to meet the needs of others and to do for other people. A child has to become interested in the welfare of other people because his welfare is tied in with theirs. If sociology teaches anything it teaches us that man is not altogether independent. He is rather interdependent. A child needs to learn that there are advantages to the idea of postponing urgent demanding insistent needs in order that he can acquire more important more lasting and more rewarding satisfactions later on. The whole Judeo-Christian system is based on the idea

of the world being attesting Irina in which one learns to postpone sense gratifications now for heavenly rewards later. The boy in the interview that follows is a product of the factors which Professor de Mayo outlined. One might say he's a victim of a household in which apparently each one is out to meet his own needs in in the full sense of the word. What has this system done to the boy. You will hear him weigh the value of having a wife against the value of having a car he chooses the car. You will hear him weighing the value of living with screaming women against the value of becoming a man. As though these were opposed. So he smokes. He lifts weights to be a man and he stays out of the house to avoid the women. You will hear him say he doesn't want to fit into the pattern suggested by his father that is going to college. The father is a college graduate but in the boy's mind he has abandoned the family. Another relative was not a college man he was a truck driver but he stuck with the

family so the boy wants to be a trucker. Harry then narrates his secret list of law violations. He admits that it's pretty long for such a little boy in exploring his dreams Harry finds that he gets disturbed for in his dreams his beloved automobiles turn against him and destroy the ones that he loves his mother and his mechanical friends who put her around all cars and souped them up. Still he would love to buy a 937 car which is all stock inside and which he says it runs like new. Here then is Harry's second interview. What did you say you want to be when you get 0 0. I always like to be a charger my dad says Ahmed. He wants me to go to college. He's got the money already put away for college and you have a pretty good brain injury. Yeah you often get bored in school

so pains. Me it doesn't go fast enough when you're is knowing something. Sometimes it goes fast but the things I want to go faster just drags along. Like on Fridays I'm always glad to get on a school dress and I guess you might think it's about a month before the dog gets out. When you think about women in general I don't like girls that you know you mean big ones are all old ones or one your own age. I don't like girls don't you. I'm only interested in cars and motors stuff but you're surrounded by girls and you know your grandmother and your aunt. I'm very much I you know is that why you need only times I'm home is when I eat and when I go home from after school. Was that why you don't shine your house because there's so many women. You know I guess.

Up in the attic it looks you know I mean Perry he isn't for you you just throw out right up there and no one comes up to clean it so well right now when it sees what I got I waits in the middle of the floor and the record player everything scattered. Up there. Who want you to wait primarily for Christmas she got me and she don't you know I record player last Christmas. Did you tell you won the weights or was it her idea. I told her I'd like to have sent a whites. I like to lift light so I can only guess £75 a question but first I just start. Well do you want to wait so you can prove something you know I just want to done. Because I was damned fat Nahyan I thought I could listen. Then. And there's that one kid. I am I wearing marry him and he's about 12 same age as me and he is talking about girls and everything. Once I just grabbed him and knocked him all over the place I can't stand

people who are. Not nice thing girls are the greatest things in a world where he was for them and you're against him I said. I mean against them I just train for them. I want words that once you're about to meet you get to on your nerves. It may not when it gets on my nerves just in. Time for you know either help me kid rebuild transmission or all different stuff from where you go if you're going to do you're going to get married or you aren't. Most people do. And I am no thanks So when I grew up Ana I want to have someone. Tell me I got commanding can't get drunk and all that stuff. And that's what women do is yeah they went on you know.

I I you know on television you hear all that and my mother used to always say to my dad don't go to the salon and staff and student loans and have everything done. Don't don't let me catch you come home drunk tonight and stuff I guess. Well this isn't dealing type-A women. There are women are kind and thoughtful and women who don't try to change you that these women try to change you and they're not married to you. Today they try to change you don't prove what you do. Don't promise I'm sorry for my friends and you. I used to approve the charter but now I think he's he's gets in too much

trouble. So if your mother had been a little patient you would have seen this yourself when you know. She used she likes his brother and that she thinks she's a nice kid and she used to think Jimmy was a nice kid and not him that he's a nice kid. He eats and travel a lot but you know not her big things like stealing cars and wrong and stuff from that. Now my girl you're not but you know he just like him given the height cation only he likes to fight but he never gets caught or not and he does whatever you can do you remember who were my company's men. Oh I don't smoke you know. Right. I'll buy a pack of cigarettes every gun I get you know. Oh.

You mean like a pack a couple parts from a pack a week Ashmont you know smuggled back big enough and I don't even smoke outside the house I just like when I'm working in the garage. I smoke Annette who has a pink smoke. Harry shrugs. I Schmoke when I was little but that was because all the kids that don't smoke want to. Look outside with kids kids I just smoke in one hand like a man. My mother says I shouldn't but. It's kind of nice to be to double cross her in now when I nice and double crosser wants to know why I like to dish out more I mean not wrong like that. I'm sure you are independents. Oh yeah. Show that you're on your own and you don't have to depend on her for everything will depend on her for most things but I mean there are some little areas little pockets if you want to keep independent

of her. And this is one of them where you smoke. Yeah I know. You know quite a sharp kid smoke outside in the house and you know in in the main street you know I think you know a little kid in the secure it. Yet not one right in the heart can say no and because you know that most kids when they are many and when they were small smoke when I was little. Oh well. Much you know the snake shot once in a while. He's going to tell me about the kind of time you were most scared of all the time to your life. Bar. Yeah right. I just remember Jerry told me you know him if he could only last like that. Me and Jimmy was on the board track for Rockies 14 years might get in no trouble. He was in trouble

with me once and he just want to told me. But you know if he. I probably would have told on and him you know if the cop said he was gonna rejuvenile called if you didn't want to. So he did and we had one in the end if you want to rob the house now. We we jacked up the truck up out with motors and try to take powers off and we was going to you know hide from when another truck should have to put him back on it. You were going to take him away. Waitress we went there I not right I could do what I could get on to some kid that I leant on a one page that looked like an idiot room want to tire mystery. I broke in the house once and the number of chance they said Jimmy broke you know. A night like blind me for said I was there but I wasn't there.

Let's start out with the first time you have in trouble with the Burmese What was that. Saying I like when I was about 8 I had to be in a 7 or 8 o'clock and I didn't commit till by 10 and then they said send you home again now what was the second time you had to leave. After like. Oh some guy was going to kill me but was had over me his kid used to live together we used to take stuff out of glove compartments and that you know like to draw our pennies and stuff. We get two dollars altogether you know. We didn't take flashlights and stuff just yet sometimes that leave orders and stuff in there. How old were you then. About two years ago was heard about him in a room there a time. Robin to kids.

And how did you do this. Or little couple kids one year Robert and Kim was a really good friend of rush and they told me to stay outside and watch. So I stayed outside and watched from the other kids broke in a cellar when they rang and the kid told us what a key was was undermanned when we put the key there and while they went out one night and knowing that my you know get caught was Charlie cry for spilled a can of chocolate star and they told us she touched the ice box and I tore off that lose it was going to happen fingerprint and catch us. They didn't know it was ash. Now I just want to ask the town. So we got scared and we all went down. Told him you don't want to you know you don't

know him you know. I had all kind of beer and stuff they took like beers and what happened I'm pretty good so they lay there. And what about the fourth time with you. Then another time Grammy winner beat me at the cops when they got drunk and he grabbed me and he was wounded. Those are the same that was going to kill me you say and the guy never did like me and he said he start shaking and pull and I went out and told my mother and she called the cops and they had a hearing or something over it. And the guy on Ally said that I beat up the daughter on her own siphon gas on the car. Meanwhile he's got to walk on for his good pull.

Then what we take in a car. And this picture. What do you think of when we think of tires the truck was made in between. Yeah that still wish that they had us for parking meters watching my dad paid $53. Kids are broke in the three of them and someone else broke into a whole lot of them. And my dad in the dock paying for all of them. And what about the card. You mean you take a car and get a can you have your kid took it and I was standing up the road hitchhiking nature stop pick me up and I only rode for a walk in 20 minutes and they weren't with you weren't really with him to begin with. Get the car you are watching most from when they stole what and you know I didn't know they still want me there. I didn't even think they were going to steal when I told Lisa we're going to take a car.

Hitchhike on and I never thought any time what happened to her car especially when it was parked right in front of them open the window. So although I took it not obviously enough or. I wanted to get in the front seat you know so someone came out to get out on the quit. But I ended up riding in the back you know the back seat and I rode them for about 16 minutes 20 15 20 most of could have been was a half an hour or so and they dropped me off. And I went and you make a map the next day to do They made it that night. Thank you. Well drilled on us and then used the six number six. Only the second time I've been in here. Yeah but as it says six of a series of troubles even the jumper wire prevented a lot of trouble.

But for such a little boy in the meantime you go to church on time every Sunday every Sunday. Most Sundays I missed back to Sunday for you know how long a time. Punish her Sundays every year Christmas and Easter and that you know I'd be sick want to numb Sundays and I'm like go away I don't want him Sundays I never skip church or nothing like you and you go to the sacrament of the sacraments regularly I go out once a month pension go to confession and communion with my. You know I'm not a boy or a choir boy. I used to be in awe of what I never served in math you know just the procession. When that sensor and when Pete and Kelly about any dream scary or pleasant I write usually during a phone in a well where some.

You know times I dream it or work on the car in a car or something. What these do to your brother killed that kid. I'm with my dad. I don't even think you get out of the car to change it I've only been enough enough and there's no car in your dreams ever run over any of the women in your life. The window however if you look. Once I dreamed of my mother. See there was a big that in the back of a shopping center and I dreamed of her. I jumped that and. She got back in a car a car whenever you know when I woke up right after that I was so scared. One time stares going to drink water. For a wow you know. So I get real power and I could fall right back. I think buying wanted dream that knowing where that gets me Gary and the big people ever give you trouble.

Already made and God help me. The big people seem to like you guys like you. I don't know. Kids I love with New York are the ones I never. The only when I'm around then I just work on cars and you know I go on I can be around cars and stuff. Why would you keep on coming like to work on cars and stuff and then 37 and I want a car. It was blocking it was the only one it's $60 for it for a period. Having it was perfectly reached toward the six cylinder engine.

You know because this is the car engine and how long it will be when it ran like no we're not in the modern music so didn't get in a plenty or what was you know what form it will look like in the song. OH MY GOD or cars. More kids got a warning long ago. In Harry we see a boy who's pretty badly mixed up and confused in this interview we learn that Harry's father plans to send the boy to college without consulting the boy's wishes and aspirations. In the circumstances it would seem advisable for the father either to encourage his boy to be the best truck driver in the state or else try to motivate the boy so that he will want to go to college. College should be Harry's idea in other words not merely his father's. I'm sure you noticed how Harry drew a concept or mental picture of all women

on the bases of the women he knew at home and on television. The picture is such that at 13 he's pretty well determined not to get married when he grows up. Also he became rather aggressive I felt towards the other little boy who thought that girls are the greatest thing in the world. Harry's mother disapproved of his choice of friends. However he did approve of them but after associating with them for a time he felt that they weren't good for him and now he disapproves of them. But he knows why he still resent his mother's disapproval of his friends. Because in a way he read her attitude as one that disapproves of him too. One way in which Harry reacted to his mother is that he smokes. He smoked for a variety of reasons first he wanted to get even with her. Second because his uncle smokes and he is growing up to be just like his uncle. Third he smokes because he wants to do something that is wrong but not bad. Fourth he wants to show that he's a

man and men smoke. Lastly he wants to demonstrate his independence of his mother at least in this one little area. Harry listed all his delinquent actions completely when he was encouraged to do so. This illustrates a rather general observation relative to human beings. Sometimes we get involved in behavior that causes shame embarrassment or guilt. It's quite painful to live with these memories but often it's more painful to discuss them with other people as long as this is true. We put up with our problems when we can no longer tolerate our painful problems. It becomes less painful to talk about them with someone else. At this point we usually begin talking about them. Talking about one's problem is the first step I think in facing them realistically in handling them in solving them or in reducing them. One has to talk about his problems if he's going to do something about them. If he's going to seek recovery

forgiveness restitution or peace. Harry's dream content was rather interesting. He has few lives among these are his mother. His voice friends and cars in his dream. The car often turns against him in one dream it killed his mother. I believe we would all agree that this could be a rather terrifying experience for a little boy. And in the case of Harry the terror in the dream reflects some of his waking fears. It appears then that Harry relates with older boys especially if they have cars when he's with older boys he doesn't get into trouble. I mean time he's powerfully trying to de cars. He even has his heart set on acquiring an 1037 dodge. But that's the way boys are. Next week we will present a final interview with Harry. You have been listening to exploring the child's world. A program in which the child speaks. Father Francis Duff a professor of sociology at Duquesne

University has conducted the interview with the child and to find the outlines of this world in the summaries that followed. This has been a production of the radio service of Duquesne University in cooperation with U.K. and sociology department technical director Frederick Williams program director and announcer. Our older man listen again next week for another in the series exploring the child's were. The was. The preceding program was made available to the station by the National Association of educational broadcasters. This is B N A B Radio Network.