Exploring the child's world II; 6

The Duquesne University Alumni Association present. Exploring the world. The child is father to the man as we hope for a world of men of good will. We must look to the conditions of the child's well to achieve it. So we search for the law's ways and means the sources of the capable spontaneously whole adult. It is not strange that the world of the disturbed child throws light on childhood in general. Although Father Francis Duffy chairman of the

Department of Sociology at Duquesne University was not at first looking for this light when he started working with the disturbed child. He found however that it is not that the disturbed a delinquent child is completely removed from society. Rather that his position is more extreme and so its obviousness offers us a sharper clearer insight into the world of children to share the fruit of his research funded duffing into Cain University presents a series of recorded interviews with delinquent children followed by a short discussion in which the child and his problems are explored for insight. Here is Father Duffy to preview the problems of this child who speaks in exploring the child's world. Father Duffy. The girl in the interview that follows is 15 years old. She's white Catholic third generation Irish American. There are seven children in the family. Two of these have married and moved out of the household Coney's father is a

rather weak and ineffectual individual. The mother has had a series of nervous breakdowns and one of the sisters is a feeble minded child. This child describes her so her mother as selfish inconsiderate and unresponsive. There is considerable fighting in the household Conny relates spontaneously and warmly however to anyone who shows an interest in her. She's able to discuss her problems objectively and with no sign of embarrassment. Technically now she is classified as a sex delinquent. I feel that in her case sex is an obvious but secondary problem. There are many more serious hidden or latent problems including the feeling that she is not worth while that she's not wanted that she's not loved. Her life seems to consist in an all out attempt to prove that she can be needed by other people by offering to satisfy the needs of others in a narrow area of sex. She hopes to gain satisfaction of her own needs and these

are much broader than sex but then sex is the only calling that she has to offer. Let us listen as Konnie unravels a strange story of her young life in detail as we further explore the child's world. How old are you Connie. Fifteen. And do you think that most of your trouble is with your mother or what. Well I think it's all of us a whole family. And what's the matter with the family. Well we just don't seem to get along. None of us I mean well sometimes when we get manned I think it's all my mother's fault and I get in here and get up and walk out and everything. But I guess it's within all of us. And how many are in the family finding to married. I see. Plus my baby. You have a baby of your own. Yes father. You didn't get married though to anybody. No. You know who the father is. Now is this a cause of some of the trouble between you and your

mother. Not really no because she loves my baby but she doesn't seem to love you though. I think that sometimes but I guess she does. Do you love the baby. Yes I do very much father. And how do you show it to the baby. Well by giving her good things and trying to give her all the love. But being here I guess you know what I was trying to say was that your mother doesn't treat you this way the way you treat a baby at least she hasn't done it lately. You know she don't your affection outwardly for her I mean she's very self-centered and keeps to herself. I see. And she just don't show them outwardly to me. Of course I haven't been noticing her not give me any affection in the past three years and I sort of resent that. Since you were about 12 or so I mean of course I didn't give her nothing to be proud of either because I came in here and then Ever

since I came in here the first time it seemed to be worse. Why did you come in the first time running away from mother mostly her school. Well you see father when I ran away I was planning on going on a picnic the next day and everything. I mean I met a boy whom I liked. You know he seemed to give me a lot of attention and affection at the time. I went out with him on the first time I met him and I met him in a public swimming pool and then I was out with him until 11 and I was afraid to go home at 11 o'clock so I stayed out two weeks. You say you have two weeks because you're free to go home at 11 o'clock. Yeah. And how old were you then was the first time you were in trouble. You know what the court I was about 13 I think. I don't even remember. And we'll wait two weeks with this boy you know for two days. I was with this boy for two days. You know then I stay with the girl I met an older girl. She was 22

she had an apartment of around you know she thought I was older and I lived with her and I went out with her. She said she supported me through everything you know and what demands that she make. What what did you have to do for her. Nothing. Just go out with her. You know when she went out with her boyfriend and all should go to clubs and I go with her where she she was something like a call girl. I see a big girl. She was part prostitute. She wasn't strange. You know where anything she seemed well nice. But when I went away I I had no reason at all to run away. We were going on a picnic the next thing. Everything everything was fine till I met that boy and me and my mother was getting along pretty good then too. And then you went home and faced the music. Well I stayed in juvenile court for about two months here and I thought I learned my lesson and went back to worse. I see I think they should have really sent me

away then of course now the court seems interested in me and I really appreciate it. I was afraid to go to more games because I hate to be locked up. I don't want to go home because I know I'll go right back to the boy that got me in trouble there. You don't think that this is the father of the Baby Doe that I got in trouble this time. No chance of that because I haven't done nothing you know since then. We're kind of embarrassed living in the same neighborhood the same house and having a baby now. Well you see I went to school out of my district. I see the boy don't even know I had a baby or anything. Neither does anyone at the school except the teachers and friends. Did you ever think of having the baby adopted so nobody would know. Yes at first I did. You wanted that. Yes very much. And who stopped us. My mother because she wants a baby home you know

but she doesn't seem to be too crazy about having you there. Yes and you know it's hard dancer. But it counts for the first time what about the second time that you were here or is this a second time. This is the third time I thank your father. Well actually the fourth the first time when I just told you I ran away. Another time I asked to come here because me and my mother got in an argument. Another time you know a girl and some boy was going to run away and they kept us there for half an hour. I see. And that was all two or three years ago. I didn't get in any trouble for two years till now. I was pretty bad told a lot of lies and blame things on other people. My sister in that but I tried to make up for it but it didn't do any good. I don't know father but I would want to go back was because he didn't understand you were asking for something. What we're asking for when you were doing all these things that seem to be pretty bad attention.

Yes I always did things for attention for the fall of the boys. We get the boys use my shape figure closed tight cars and everything else just for tension. I thought all the boys love me. All they did was use me. But I didn't know them till now. And I guess I'm still stupid. If I'd get home I'd probably fall for another line again. That's why I'm glad to go to a catholic come because there will be able to straighten out my problems. You feel that you couldn't do that if you were free. You know I think I would be free there because they don't like you I've been you know but I mean that you want supervision over you want somebody to tell you what to do. And I want to be watched over. You want to be watched. You know that I would never admit it to anyone. No teenager would they like to pretend they're on their own. Most teenagers deep inside want a minute but

they like to have the feeling of security. At least I do. And I think a lot of teenagers do nowadays. Are you about the worst one in your family. Yes. Now yes. Who's the best. My brother little. My older brother 30 he went through high school and he made something of himself and he always you know always treated me good. He was the only one in the family. Father he's a big shot. I mean he can't be bothered with my problems. He he has some of the He's general manager of a big firm. How about telling me something that happened to you when you were a real little baby. My quote father anything you remember when you're really little before you went to school I remember I used to do a lot of things for attention then too. Like what kinds of things would you do. I never got along with the other kids father. They always thought I was different when I went

when I went to school I can remember the kids call me names all the time. What kinds of names would they call you. Kuti and buggy and all that. Did you have any of these animals. No I don't think I ever did but I think her dead father and I says I'd never turn out to be as bad as my sister and I turned out worse worse and she was much worse. I mean I really but I can remember when I saw my shoes one time all of my shoes for a nickel a pair of shoes just to buy candy. I will leave then and I take money off the paper stand. I was about six or seven then I guess and I'd buy candy with it and buy the kids everything I always wanted to to be a big shot you know. Well you were probably buying friends. That's what I was doing. You give them candy you know they'll be your friend. Yeah. So it was all gone. How about something that happened before that around the same time. What

else happened did you have any big scares. I used to be afraid of ghosts. I used to have bad dreams and I was always afraid of lightning. My mother used to say Oh it ain't going to hurt you. And I used to get real scared. Another thing to this day I'm scared of rats and we had mice in our kitchen and stilled of the state. I remember when the last time I was home I went down and you know so that my feet so that so that they'd run away and my mother would but holler at me for doing it. I'm so scared of them and bugs. I get real upset nervous and shaky and Millard dirty these things. Well they're ugly and I was so scared of them. We used to live in an old feller when I was a wee. When I was wee wee little I guess about three or maybe two. We used to have a place where my brother would work on chemistry and I used to have a sign the door keep out rats. You know my brother wrote it there to keep us out of his junk but I always used to be afraid I'd never look in there. One time I half opened the door but

I was even too scared to look and it was damp there. We used to eat good and then my dad would bring fruit and the things my dad would always bring to bring something we'd always hurry up and eat it. And I can when I can remember father still. I did this months ago my mother buy candy and I'd take some and hide it. Because my mother you know would be kind of selfish with it and I'd ask her for peace and that's all she'd give me one piece and hide it. So when I find it you find you're doing the same thing not you mother did now. Yeah I did about two months ago. She had all kinds of candy in the cupboard and I took out a whole pound and I took it upstairs and only I got guilty and put half of it back. I got to feeling kind of been my conscience. I see. Now I want to go to church. I used to get everything to go every morning mass and communion and I had the most wonderful feeling of security. I didn't bother with the boys or anything.

Oh I thought they were sharp and all that but they didn't interest me till after my mother says you ain't going to church anymore and they on Sundays. And then when I got to thinking you know well I wonder if I can get this guy. He sharpened that and everyone wants him. So. I try to be a femme fatale. No didn't do me no good. Just get me in trouble. What were you in for the lot this last time. Now I ran away with the boy they stole the car. We went to Virginia and then he was saying he thought oh I might marry you and all that jazz. How did even knowing that well he wasn't married already was you know it's only a kid's father. He's only 15 or 16 or so mine. But I'm glad that we got we got caught. I knew I'd get current. I just knew it. I prayed I would get caught is he a bad boy does he is it really bad father. He puts on the BVI pretends he bet you know

what I mean is like most teenagers you know dresses sharp. They say bad when a teenager says bad. That means really tough and sharp you know and good looking and all that. It means just the opposite. Even last year one of the most beautiful girls in the school. She was in my homeroom and she couldn't get in. But you got in that way. Boy I felt good. I mean and gee well how did you happen to get it. He started talking to me after school all the voice over teenagers from my school come to me with with their problems before they'll go to their teachers don't come in tell me and ask me what they should do. A couple girls told me they were pregnant or thought they were. What should they do when that they all come to me with their problems. And I got I mean I'd like to help them out. So he told me he says I'm going to run away. You know I have to you know with my dress a little shorter than it should be my one foot out and an

awkward position with my hands folded and just smiling on him with massive flirting you know. He says you want to come then the devil started talking to me and I says OK we was walkin down town is he going you know are we going to case a car and everything else like real big criminals. You know we were really planning it. And they just stole a car and picked you up he said. I was with them when they stole it. I was down a few a few feet about a block maybe there's no other girl just you and the two boys. Yeah. And they didn't make no attempt at me either. Well he tried to get fresh with me. I was surprised that I didn't because I went out with a lot of guys and I did a lot of things but I only had relations with them because they wanted it. I never got a thrill out of it or anything. I was a sec refers to many dang guys father I see. And I'd go back for more. It's stupid. I mean I would fall for it. Even now you me now or or then then not now but I haven't

I'm going to be that stupid now that I think you know how could you. Yes I'd like to know. But it happened. Maybe you were reaching for something. Affection or kindness or understanding towards acceptance. I thought they all love me father for a few kisses I thought and I wanted always to be like the other girls. I never had the clothes they did they used to make fun of my clothes and I always worry about my clothes all the time even now. But if I had have to stuff anyone has I think I put it on to you know show off. In fact I think that if I had everything I wanted. I become Stickney you know snobbish but yet I try to be friendly with everyone father and I try to get along with him. But it seems that everyone doesn't want to get along with me. I mean when I have candy and money or something or can give them my cigarettes then I have my friends. And then when they're gone so are my friends.

You run out of good you run out of friends. Yes. I don't know how to act father. Sometimes I wonder. You never thought of doing anything bad to yourself or killing yourself. Of course I thought of doing it but I don't have the nerve. I'm too scared to do it. And I was so bad I don't know how many guys I went out with. I don't know who the baby is. Who the baby's father is. The court thinks this kid but it isn't the one the court thinks it is. I don't know who it is. It could be couldn't be. But I blamed it on him because I didn't like that kid and he did have relations with me. So there's your problem and there in a couple of years is going to be another problem the baby problem if you'll be trying to find out who she is too. Yeah I miss her so much. I miss her more than anyone in this place. I can't stand it here. Father had a Kleenex and I think I'm getting called.

I hope not well that's about all. All right thank you very much father. And now joining father Duffy to discuss the features of this child's world is his guest Dr. Lawrence R. Hugo of the sociology department at Duquesne University here are Father Duffy And Doctor Hugo. Dr. Hugo you've just heard this young girl. Did you get the same impression I did that this is a good exemplification of the the wishes of WRI Thomas who spoke about the wish for security that wish for affection the wish for love and the wish for a new experience I think he calls them security response recognition and new experience the same things strike you that I thought of those four wishes in fact every time the ending like this you think the chances for a wish but I was wondering which one of these has priority or which one of these might obscure the other three. She talked to security need for security but she also threw in right after that her desire for affection and attention. And

now whether she defines security and affection attention. The same way I don't know but I think there's a difference. Example even her sex to make Lucy's bring up the fact if she's willing to give up give out sex which she doesn't enjoy not for security which she doesn't get in this relationship but rather attention and affection and even as she said earlier which she'd like to be a big shot all you want to be a big shot. Yes it seems that her whole pattern was rotten security which is that we used a lot today. The need for security but her whole idea was that I want attention I want to thank you and I want recognition and my security and it was packed pretty early too when she was 6 years old used to go steal things off of newspaper stands in the way to school. Also her insights were fairly good once something was pointed out to her she seemed to see it right away.

She had all the answers to everything she did but the thing is she never. I did just as I said before I think that her insights were good but they were all in disconnected and unrelated end and I was listening to her commentary at UCLA a very emotionally disturbed and mixed up girl and after you listen to her you are equally emotionally distraught and mixed up till you don't know where she started her shit ending. Yes but I do feel a father Duffy that the one thing that impressed me was it did. That she's going to give anything for attention and maybe even her home life was on the basis of not affection but she wanted more than affection she wanted attention with affection and possibly she had as much security in her home in any one of a number of money quit youngsters. Yes indeed you see to it there was very little support from the home from the family. There was one brother that she seemed to be relying upon for affection but she wasn't willing to test him to see if he would take her into his home. She felt he had his own problems although she says he's very successful and she she

resents that success in other people or as she indicated towards the end she she'd like to have as much success or like to have a lot of things and in that one for which she went these things for and again she didn't indicate she went because you feel more secure and settled but that make her feel like a big shot again. She wanted to have these positions to kind of expose them yet she said she probably become unbearable if she did get them to write walk right down Main Street when I've been in that she owned on her back and yes and and I meant to ask you two of did you get the implication there that really she was actually picked up and possibly being considered for recruitment into white slavery. You know I had fact even when I listen to the commentary of the girl I just made a little note here the metamorphosis of a prostitute is that she herself in her lonely meandering it was determining whether her. Career would be this or something else. Yet we all wonder just how a prostitute starts out her professional career.

And certainly she made no bones about stating that she is going to either give sex or even sell sex if it ever give to her what she wanted and what she wanted was attention and a feeling of being loved the feeling of being desired. She was determined even developing the femme Fatah allied to it to get that attention affection and then what would you see in the line of this baby's hopes for the future what lies in the future for him do you think the baby little girl with as well as she indicates is truly what her mother is if other words are corrupt evasive regarding her mother are correct I don't think that the mother is going to be that the proper one to develop another chip off the old block so to speak because. No matter what you might say about the girls blame or culpability here there is a I don't think any question about that part of the thing as to the credit or mother I mean she helped

mold this young mixed up. A semi professional prostitute. And I don't think that we're being too hard on the girl we say that because she already indicated that she can't even count the number of her conquest. Yes and also she was a child who never really was able to relate at all with the peer group. Apparently she leans a great deal authorities or people to make her do what's right to to protect her and to give her security and these are things I think which we probably have to fight for unearned rather than have them given to us. She never really with her inferiors or peer group do you think father passed because she was fighting for these things but she used the wrong the wrong doing what I've been saying as they might well be. She said she would always different and considered all odd and they color could be a buggy and that maybe these things that she was called a subject to be made her feel as though she was different

possibly no one thought you're different at all that just because of these derogatory remarks from her she began to withdraw in her own little world and then next thing she looked for was another world. And oh boy I don't know. It's very difficult to. Determine what the young mind like that at 12 or 13 does name when it starts to mature and she talked as though she were 21 then she every sophisticated I thought as she her observations were very sophisticated and do you see any special significance in this girl giving out signals at the age of 3 and 4 with this these fears that she had and are at the age of six she started to steal all signals the children will throw out from time to time to ask people you know when are you going to slap me. Danger MARKS Yeah interesting nose I don't know if you get too involved in looking for those same goes I think as a father of five I'd be proud to be all the time looking for singles

and maybe they are signals but the only sad part about it is you don't notice it wasn't to the kids in juvenile court. In retrospect in retrospect at the time they emerge or to show themselves they might just be too meaningful or meaningless little points that you have no idea what they want to do either way in retrospect as you say we can add those things together and get a pretty good day. Score. Well not to you that I'd like to thank you again for being on our program and in summarizing the case it is a case of a young girl who is in very very serious trouble. She's apparently disturbed emotionally and in a variety of other ways she's very sophisticated and she has gotten into serious difficulty and ice for the future we this we don't know she is being committed to a Catholic home for girls where her case will not be known. And in this way she'll have an opportunity to finish her school and placement will be made with the grandparents for the

baby. And it is hoped at a later time she will come out and be able to get herself a job and possibly revert to some kind of stable family living. Thanks again Dr. Hugo it's been nice having you on the program. Thank you Father. You have been listening to exploring the child's world a program in which the child speaks. Father Francis Duffy chairman of the sociology department at you can university has conducted the interview with the child and to find the outlines of this world in the discussion with his guest Dr. Lawrence R. Hugo. Also the Department of Sociology at UK. This is been a presentation of the radio service at Duquesne University in cooperation with the Kings alumni association. Technical director Fred McWilliams program director and I are older may

listen again next week or another in the series exploring the child's world. The interview heard on this program was a recreation exploring the child's world is distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters. This is the end he beat Radio Network.