Couchiching conference; 5

Tonight at the coaching conference the before speakers there subject the Common Market. Bob Wilson here with the welcome once again to share with the 200 people gathered at Geneva park Ontario discussion questioning and consideration of the new Europe the Canadian Institute on public affairs presents the coaching conference annually with a joint sponsorship of the CBC the financial editor of The Toronto telegram David Brenner is the Knights chairman and the speakers will be William dbl Jr. Mr. Professor at all. Mr. Crawford good one to introduce the panel and this evening's discussion. Here is David Gregory. Good evening ladies and gentleman. So far this week we've been discussing the new Europe and how it works. We have looked at the European economic miracle. We have talked about the way it has changed men's lives and their surroundings. We have examined the way the government management and labor have learnt to work together as a team in Europe. Then we have

also learned about the big changes that are taking place now in European industry. At the same time some of our visitors from Europe have cautioned us against taking too rosy a view of Europe's success against viewing it as a kind of North American style affluent society with two cars and a mint coat in every family. Someday that may be true but it isn't true yet. This evening what we are going to do is look at the New Europe from the other side of the hill. We are going to ask ourselves what does it mean to us and what will it mean if Britain joins the Common Market. Taking an even broader view. We're going to ask how the new Europe will fit into the world order. That is why we have tonight as our speakers two experts from North America. One is William dbl to New York and the other Henry Munn from Montreal. Mr. dbl we already know educated on both sides of the of the Atlantic. He has worked with

the U.S. State Department. He's also the author of several books including two major works on Western Europe. He's presently with the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. Our new comer tonight is Mr. Henry Munn who is a consulting and research gonna Myst in Montreal. Born in France he's now a Canadian citizen. He's also the author of two books on economic subjects. Originally it had been planned that we should have with us tonight was he and former chairman of the commission of the European Atomic Energy community. MR. However it was unavoidably called back to Paris later this week. Instead we have on the platform two commentators we see Raymond outlaw and Mr. Crawford Goodwin with your I believe needs no introduction to anyone here. A professor at the Sorbonne in Paris or journalist he has all of these things and he has made a deep impression on us all here by his wit and courtesy.

Crawford Goodwin who studied at McGill University in Montreal and Duke University in North Carolina. Wells through last year assistant professor of economics at York University. He says that he's at the moment unemployed. But you needn't worry about that because next month he'll be joining the teaching staff at Duke University. Without any further delay I hand you over now to William dbl and his topic is the common market. What does it mean to the rest of the world. For 10 years and more as we've watched the efforts at European integration the major question in our mind has been can they do it. I think in the years to come the big question our mind is going to be one of they going to do with it. Because I think we've seen in our previous sessions here the Common Market is here. It's a reality. I

don't mean that there isn't more to do. There's obviously a great deal of hard work ahead of the Europeans in creating all of the arrangements that they want all of those if they decide they should want nevertheless a fact and a very large fact in terms of the world economy is the customs union of Western Europe and the close cooperation in a whole range of economic problems that as we've seen is bound to come with this major new development. The impact on the rest of the world of the Common Market is greatly enlarged greatly increased by the accession of probably accession of the United Kingdom. Because Britain has a central role in the whole world economy just as a market it greatly increases the size of the Common Market as an importer from the rest of the world Britain imports about two

fifths as much as all of the six countries together. And if you look just at foodstuffs It's about four fifths of as much as the other six. I don't need to remind you as we speak here of the problems that may arise regarding Britain Britain's connections with the Commonwealth. There are special problems in Africa as a result of British accession. There will be questions about the place of Sterling in world finance and many others. Now the historic importance of the Common Market is obvious. The fact that this is progress on a large scale seems to me equally obvious by any reasonable historical perspective. It's natural and for that a change of this magnitude should bring other changes in its in its train changes all around the world. These are often listed under the

heading called the challenge of the Common Market and I sometimes think the only interesting question when you see that title is whether you're going to get the speech that says we should worry or the speech that says how do we get in on these great new opportunities. I'm not going to try to get either of those speeches tonight. I want only to talk a little bit about some of the things that we outsiders Canada United States Latin America most of all all of the countries of Asia most of the countries of Africa what we would like to see the common market do in the years ahead in relation to not only the trade problems that each one of us has but the shape of the whole free world economy. Not all of the.

Things will be talking about are directly connected with the common market and its organization they are many of them things that stem from the new prosperity in Europe and particularly the strong balance of payments position in which the major continental countries have a me which which Major Connel countries have achieved way you're familiar not with the kind of responsibility that goes with wealth. It goes with economic strength in a world that is divided troubles facing a large number of problems. The desire. Do you have Western Europe play a larger part than it has in the past in the financing of the defense of the West in the financing of aid to underdeveloped countries these are all matters that have that have been mentioned in our earlier sessions. The closely

associated questions of the cooperation with international financial matters which at the moment take the form of coping with the problems of the dollar because of the balance of payments position of the United States and coping with such other balance payments positions as problems as Canada's and those of other countries. This kind of cooperation much of it being done through the OEC D or less formally among central banks is working reasonably well. It raises questions about the future. The particular problems the trade problems that I want to talk about are however more directly connected with the other position of the Common Market. And it seems to me that as we look at the emergence of these new trading unit in Europe it's fairly clear that there are about five major things. That we the outsiders that indicate the direction in which we

the outsiders would like to see the common market move. Now this is not something that one simply makes a list of and says please be good boys do this. These are matters that ought to be negotiated between us and the Common Market to be negotiated among ourselves. I feel that in a sense almost all outside countries have a certain common interest in these issues. Naturally the interest of a particular kind outside country say Canada may at a certain point clash with those of another outside country say the United States. Nothing that I suggest is to be taken as indicating that there will be smooth sailing or that the problems are easy. But the direction is I think reasonably clear now. The first is of course the problem of the common external tariff of the of the Common Market. As you know in forming a customs union they have.

Taken the first steps towards eliminating separate national tariffs on imports from outside the common market to replace it will be replacing that with a common tariff which roughly speaking is the average of the existing tariffs. We don't need to argue whether that's a good or a bad step forward is an essential step forward in the character of the Common Market. This means of course that those who are outside. Like those who are outside any tariff wall have a disadvantage over against those who are inside our interests the interests of anybody who is exporting to Western Europe is of course to reduce that export that common external tariff as much as possible is a very familiar problem it's not very much different in this setting than it is in now from what it is in national things they brought up. We know all of this is the only way to get that sort of thing done is to come forward and offer concessions on our own part in a in a bargaining process. A second matter Iraq concerns our

agricultural exports to Western Europe these are very important to the United States as well as to as to Canada. This is now not primarily a tariff matter because the new common policy on agriculture the main outlines of which have been agreed in Europe but which remains to be fully worked out in detail is a complicated new experiment. It is quite possible that it will work in a way that will tend to increase the self-sufficiency of the Western European countries. They are already the six are already highly self-sufficient in a number of important agricultural products. Depending on how they set the support prices which eventually will apply to the whole of the common market we may be able to judge what the chances are that foreign agricultural products will over a period of years be squeezed out of

much of the much of western Europe because of the way this policy works and I won't try to describe it in detail now. It is not susceptible to normal bargaining about tariff barriers or or or quotas. The whole purpose of the new flexible tariff that will be put up put around is to control the amount that comes in from from from outside. We all have an important stake in this as I think we are going to find ourselves before the decade is out. Negotiating on agricultural problems over a wide range a wide range of agricultural questions going much more deeply into the internal affairs of Europe and perhaps therefore our own internal affairs will have to be put on the bargaining table in order to make some sense of the agricultural economy of the Northern Hemisphere's and the temperate zone countries of the southern. It's fair. I

think a third thing which has nothing directly to do with the import barriers in Europe concerns they need to take steps towards increasing or maintaining the earnings of underdeveloped countries from the export of raw materials. These are much more important to the underdeveloped countries than any levels of financial aid that they have been getting or are likely to get. The problem is a very complicated one. Everybody knows why you can't do it well. It seems to me that a changed approach in Washington is manifesting itself. As for the last few years beginning before the change in administrations and this is a more experimental attitude a Willing to a willingness to see what can be done at least with regard to certain commodities. This is not something I have no reason to believe that the people in the Common Market are not as interested as we in the possibilities of doing this. They may as is natural have some

greater interest in those products which are produced in the African territories that are affiliated with the common market what is important is that. This if it can be done at all. The stabilization can be done better by cooperation among all of the major importing countries. A fourth thing that I think we are greatly concerned about is one that Mr. Klock mentioned the other night and this is the need before too long to find ways of opening the markets not just the common market but the markets in North America and elsewhere to the low cost manufactured goods that at least some of the developing countries will be exploiting in growing quantities. We are all familiar with this kind of a problem in a long and difficult history that we've had about imports of cheap goods from Japan both before and after the war. The

problem will become probably more acute as manufacturing advances in India Pakistan and some of the Latin American countries. A peculiar effort has already been made in it too to handle some of this kind of a problem in an international context out agreement which is highly ambiguous. It is something that could be used to effect a transition of out of the production out of it by reducing the production of cotton textiles in some of the advanced countries much as Britain has made its own adjustment in Lancashire. On the other hand this same agreement administered differently could become simply an effort to freeze the status quo in this range of problems. The common market because of its. The ability to consume and perhaps because it has been so far less

directly involved in these problems than Britain Canada and the United States undoubtedly has an important role to play and it's a this is a particularly difficult problem because it strikes at all of our economies in their traditional orientation. Now finally we must be concerned I think that there should not that the unification of the European economy should not mean the fragmentation of other parts of the free world economy. It is possible. As each country. Tries to come to terms with the common market that the kind of agreements that it may seek in looking after its own interests each outside country may invite preferential arrangements privileged special features which could be a serious problem

for all of the other outside countries. Perhaps the best example of the kind of problem I'm talking about concerns the African territories. Those that will formally French are with a few exceptions in a special relation to the to the to the Common Market. They have been given free access to the common market for their goods. This is excellent however in some respects the external tariff of the common market has been so drawn up as to give these countries a privileged position by not and not and not to import freely the same goods with they came from British territories or from older UN affiliated countries like Ethiopia or Liberia. I don't want to. Suggest that there is a simple solution to this. The negotiations about British entry might mean that

Britain that the British territories would be put in the same position. In that case it would be a problem for Latin America. It makes very little sense in terms of the organization of the world free world economy that coffee from the Ivory Coast should be treated differently from coffee from Uganda and that both should be treated differently from coffee than coffee from Latin America. The direction in which one ought to be moving is I think fairly clear. It is to open the markets of the advanced countries as freely and as equally as possible to the products of all the underdeveloped countries. Otherwise the degree to which pressure on say the United States to do something special for those countries which are not given equal treatment in the Common Market could become very serious indeed.

It also could happen that because of. The encouragement that this privileged access would give to productive two producers in one country or another sizable distortions in the in the structure of production in the for in in in the underdeveloped countries could a good result. Now it's not going to be easy to change this arrangement because these particular preferences that the African countries have are very much related to the assistance that they are given by France and the rest of the Common Market through the form of price supports as well as a special marketing arrangements and it would certainly be necessary to do any dismantling of this system slowly and undoubtedly I would have to be a financial aid to offset some of the loss of them of privilege. Now if not now these these five things that I have mentioned I

have said said I'm not any of them easy of of of of attainment. They are all things that. Will have to be worked at. Here in North America and in and in Western Europe. It would be foolish to think that we would overnight create a Anything that even remotely resembles a free trading free world economy. But if you think that there is some echo in what I have described of the kind of trading policy that Canada and the United States both urged on Europe and the rest of the world in the years immediately after the end of the war you would be right. The situation is very different now and one of the main differences is this very encouraging one of European prosperity and strength. The ideas of equal treatment and in trade and lower trade barriers are still very good ideas. We didn't get very far with

them in some respects in the in the late 40s but we made some progress. We have with us still one of the major achievements of that time General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade get. Now all of us fall out of grace with GATT from time to time. The United States and Canada among the rest. Nevertheless it's proven to be a pretty good working organization and its rules have turned out to be rather. Rather good kinds of rules to have around to a very considerable extent. The pursuit of the things that I have outlined could be undertaken in Gat. There is another thing I have said that we each of us in his own country in the removal of his trade barriers which is what this amounts to because we were not going to get these things as free gifts from the common market we are going to have to go and bargain for them. We are all going to have difficulties in

carrying this out. Nevertheless the direction in which we ought to move is to is to me reasonably clear. Now I have put this in terms of what we want from the Common Market. This should not this it is this proved a way of exposition that I thought would be helpful. This is not something that is against the common market. Actually as weve heard previous days here and as one can find of the whole history of the common market among the chief leaders of the movement for European integration have been men who have said we must make the Common Market a liberal trading. Unit now not quite everybody in Europe agrees with them any more than in our own countries. And he won. Everyone fully agrees with policies of liberal trading whether one of the important things that happens as the outside world pursues a

policy on this is to affect the balance of forces the balance of argument in another country and in this case inside the Common Market. But if we are going to do this and be effective we have to bring something with us. We spoke the other night of the trade expansion act that is under consideration Congress in Washington. That point said the direction it requires however is a long road. In my country and it's equivalent you know other countries will also require a long piece of work. We have wishes. We need to embody them in policy. Thank you all. Thank you Mr. de Bowl. I think that in a very few short minutes Mr. dbl gave us a panoramic view of the problems and the opportunities that the common market is creating for the rest of the world. It's it's an extraordinary thing that a political economic group such

as the Common Market only five years old should have such an impact on the rest of the world. Now to narrow the picture somewhat. We're not going to take a look at what the common market means to Canada and to do that I'm going to hand you over to Mr. Henry mon Mr. Munn. From what we have heard so far about park the common market is very much like an attractive young lady. See I don't listen it's but ideal rich and beautiful open with everyone. Class cut it to size and we squatted by whole. Even President candidate as Mr. people just saw us to is impressed by your charms. But I want to say that our government leaders in what I well I've been particularly impressed by all that you see. Generally speaking the Canadians have been slow in discovering

the Common Market. They have only just done it. It's now a wheeze a mixed feeling of fear and they and I knew Russians the people which were taking place you up have been particularly ignored for a long time in Canada. Many Canadian did not believe in the success of the Common Market and were skeptical. It was only when Britain took the decision to enter negotiation with the six that's a politician the businessmen and the OP inion walk up to you up you know your duties. Let us say that these are waiting is somewhat rude. One suddenly realizes that you up is not only a continent of cathedral and museum it is also that of economic achievements. Well among the most efficient in the world. The fast expansion rights of the economy of the six. Together we this tech nation out of

Canada since 57. How deserted. Attracting towards you up investment which would otherwise have been directed towards Canada European and American manufacturers and finances. Invest proposition Ilyse in Canada while a Canadian discover European businesses. Some groups are picking participation in Common Market concern. Oh out hitting new industries mutual funds being found here. The purpose of which is to invest in new up securities. This growing interest in Europe. We probably increase in the coming hears and it is likely that capital movements will be much more reciprocal than before. How commercial Chargers are naturally influenced by the Common Market. It's now exposed so what do you up.

I've been crazy lately but on the other hand our protection has to face a more active competition from Europe in the straight on the domestic as well has on the flying markets. I would trade with the United States is consequently affected the stern competition from European products tends to decrease publishing really our imports from the United States in the future. The final application of the commercial policing of the community particularly of its common external type will influence how trained to the extend where it will affect our competitive position. Finally by 10s probable and take into the Common Market will amplify these applications the cloud your limitation of Empower your pc answers obviously means the end of the North Atlantic trade trial. He therefore

allows share of our external trade that is at stake. The good many unknown remains as European economic integration is not achieved. The six to establish a definite i controlled policy and as far of the aspects such as money salaries and fiscal charters are concerned they are still on the stages of principles for the model we have all to entre of Britain and other countries might lead the six to modify some of their engines. One cannot baffle but draw main lines and try and that he's what I shot and diver to do on the subject of Canadian export. The matter that raises most fears nowadays in Canada. Outside with the community I mounted in 61 to slightly over 800 million dollars. Our exports alone total

nearly 500 million dollars. Oh eight point five percent of all our saves. Under the present situation there is a Chinese volume of Kiani apneas vital to the prosperity of our country. It is actually two of the six that our exports have increased in recent years. These figures and for us the importance as well are the possibilities of the European markets. Our exports to European economy community can be broadly classified into secrets. First Industrial Materials and semi-finished products second manufactured goods agricultural products. The first one is by the most important as the tree presents in value about 60 percent of the total. The secondary piece and about certainty and the search only 10

percent. The sixt imports large amounts of raw materials to supply their own industries as a result. Most of these products and to free little imposed on by the common external type. Canada's position in this field. He menaced Hoang particularly as far as metals and asbestos are concerned. One can say broadly that in this respect the Canadian and European economies are complimentary. This pipe competition from other suppliers particularly the Africans one cannot in the future should not only maintain our present position but increase our sales further in these group to products wood pulp and haloumi and which you export in large amounts deserve particular attention. Wood pulp which I wanted free will be charged with a 6 percent duty.

The two main outlets are for our A.M. Germany and Belgium. Well these metal and tell us are protected now by a common type of 9 percent a transition period having been provided full as well as some tiles. The common external tire you should not have any strong impact over the shot. We should also note that Great Britain has hearts of six to abolish the common tie for these two products which import on a large scale. Whether such desires will be satisfied remains to be seen. Get it on manufacturers of paper purp and it will be no. Worried about the protectionist aspects of the external tank. They feel that if it were to be maintained at the current level our export would suffer most specially as competition would

fall from comparable European industries which are experiencing remarkable grows. It is obvious to me that the six want to protect the development of a whole industries. It results from things that if the prospects for our sales of them remain good for the short term they are most uncertain over the longer term. In this respect one should notice that the eventual entry of the Scandinavian countries into the community would consider a bully increase competition for Canadian part. How explode of money pattered goods to the common markets very small. They did however improve in ice and he is particle rates of chemical products following the release of two Taser on imports from the dollar. So considering the diversification of Europe

and production it costs often inferior to us and we have really high external tarrif of the community. The possibilities of increasing our saying Happy are limited. We should probably proceed to consolidation into larger units and specialize ml in the publication of products for which we are joint of youth's advantages in some cases. We should study the possibilities of producing in the common market itself. More important and more complex e the question of Agriculture. Indeed one third of our exports to the six consist of agricultural products mainly wheat in 61 wheat sales to this market rose to 130 million dollars. This is far from being official. Also the principle of a common troll police say were passed at the beginning of this year in Brazil.

A certain number of essential points still remain outstanding. I doubt that the community will adopt a policy aiming at self-sufficiency. It actually imports about a quarter of its food requirements. However improvement in its productivity. We probably lead to supply a percentage of its own needs. It seems that to start wienies it once who protects its agricultural Sutter's and its peasantry against throwing competition. Indeed our production costs are actually below it spoke out best one is probably the quality of our wheat particularly how hard we eat in fact the situation will remain foggy has long passed the agricultural policy of the six does not go beyond the current stage. An

important aspect of the question will be to the price level fixed by the community in the immediate future. The common market because of its part of expansion the competition it causes and certain protectionist aspects of the external tally and the common Tiger told police a problem looks a challenge which has to be met. Canada undoubtably on Joy's natural advantages beauties also there's cheap power plenty of capital advanced techniques to meet successfully the competition from the six and to benefit at the same time. From the development of these vast markets our country has to make the necessary changes. Mr McMullan prime minister of Great Britain said lately if we are not to be left behind and to drop out of the mainstream of the world's life we must be prepared to change and adapt our methods.

This applied to Canada has way. I'm not Dutch or a pessimistic but I don't think Canada is quite ready at the moment to meet the challenge. These require that we put our affairs in order and that we'll evolve as our commercial policy. We must give back a most satisfactory rate of expansion to our economy achieve full employment and prepare our industries to face the US of today and tomorrow with success. I just plays Mr email close later petition costs and make a strong effort regarding research and cheering them as develop a better export attitude. We should have been just days of optimum size with a market outlook not confined to domestic markets but to the potential market of the world. The number of such guns in Canada is probably about 10

percent of Canadian manufacturer in manufacturing and to prices. We should set a target of at least 30 percent. Canada needs a cost to TV long term economic policy. It must set definite goal and give yourself the means to achieve the same. These demands a concerted efforts by the public powers federal and provincial. Together with a chart large active groups of the country business labor universities and so on and therefore requires a minimum of democratic planning. The need to create an atmosphere of confidence is obvious and the top psychological factor is very important. Finally the federal government should review its commercial policy. Canada who owes its prosperity to a large extend to ease to its external trade and cannot afford to isolate ourselves as a matter

of fact no country in the world can afford it nowadays. Mass production techniques which cannot be applied but in vast markets. Make economic isolation impossible. Markets are no longer regional. Not even counting at all. They have world wide. I do not think one should keep living in the past. The presidential type has already lost some of its importance and is probably bound to disappear. So it is up to us to adapt ourselves to the interest in cation of international competition. I see no reason why Canada should not take the initiative. Are the United States already have in making trade openings to what the six of these could take the form of a strong declaration of support for the American attitude. Then I can add I should be prepared to follow it up with concrete action. We could negotiate them with your lowering of

calories. So without our traditional export could still and to Europe without being too heavily taxed. Bargaining power is not negotiable. For instance we could bargain the elimination of pretenses against concession from the 6. Of course the application of a for your type policy would cause difficulties and would lead to a recall version among our manufacturing industries. But it could take place can you really. Then the carrot of the wider market and the stick of the more competition would stimulate undersea our industries would result in a downward pressure on our coasts and it would provoke beneficial groupings. A few years ago France was protectionists many all of us taze the strong German industry and mistrusted that the common market

you have heard this week of a success and progress. These are the object T's which Canada can and would as she we the combine and thought of private onto prices and governments. It is at this price only that our country will be able in the future to meet the common market with success and to play its part in the western world. Ah. At this stage of the proceedings we customarily throw the floor open and ask for questions from members in the audience. But before doing so I would just like to make one comment. I know from experience that there are always a number of people who would like to ask questions who do not get the chance to do so.

So in order that we can fit everybody and would you please keep your questions short and ask one question at a time. If you can do that then the name may be timed it in second question. Mr. Benjamin. Mr. Chairman last Monday evening I asked a question and the request of the chairman to lead it to this evening. I would not like to ask it with one amendment. Leaving out of consideration for the moment agricultural products and having had three days notice. I wonder if some of the gentlemen on the panel could tell me that when Britain joins the Common Market. What will be the percentage of our basic resources that the seven will have to look outside to the outside world in order to carry on their manufacturing. I just don't I don't think I can give a precise answer to that. I didn't have a library of statistics with me but it's a

it is something that varies considerably according to the material because they are completely dependent after all on imports of some materials on many others. They are importing anything from 60 to 90 percent of all of their needs certainly on some other basic materials such as coal. They are more than self-sufficient they are they are they are exploiting. They have a rather substantial Gasper production but if you take gas oil and coal together they are named R R and R on an import basis on account of the. They need the need for oil. But I don't have any specific figure that would answer even with three days notice I'm afraid. I would like to see. I don't believe that even we three weeks we could answer the questions because it depends on some elements which are unpredictable

namely on surprise policy to seek the question of Agriculture. The amount of agriculture which is six of the seven we could use depends largely what the price policy of the Common Market will be and if we take some of the whole matter yours not only is a capacity to produce which enters into the picture but also as a connoisseur of this whole material. As example in spite of the fact that the common market is more or less efficient for cool there has been import of course on the United States because of some question of prices. So I believe that for two time beings a fact that the six of the seven are together does not change their needs a head of import of material from the outside in the long term. Even more difficult to say what with. I think it was you who was the bell. This question is for Mr. DVLA and for MS to air on Misty about you mentioned you'd be quite concerned if the levy on coffee coming from the

Ivory Coast and from say Brazil was different. When I let us suppose there is a difference in level 5 percent and Brazil decided to subsidise our industry to the extent of 5 percent and as Mr. Clark tell us the other day that you've got to assume you've got to allow for misuse of funds that come to certain developing countries from the United States and United Nations on so forth. You've got to live for misuse of those funds. And supposing you found that the subsidized subsidize ation of Brazilian coffee was done with American money. What steps would you suggest the United States should take. And Mr. Aaron do you think that in the long run you could stop this subsidize ation to be in the House of Commons.

I have often heard ministers say that the government doesn't answer hypothetical questions I'm not I'm not government. It's a hard problem because I don't I don't quite. I mean there isn't there is a real difference in the tariffs on coffee. Brazil can't afford to act to subsidize its export of coffee it lives by its export of of of coffee. I don't think that the use of American aid funds for export subsidies has them. I've never heard of its of its of its being done. My own there is now a coffee. There is a there is a conference going on in New York about the growing up of a coffee agreement and one of the key problems has been how much African production would be covered by this agreement. An important other important question has been whether there would be an adjustment not just rules about marketing but an adjustment of production in Brazil. I dont know the details of this I have been given the impression that a rather favorable outcome is expected perhaps not in this in this week but in the course of some months

because the coffee problem is a fairly serious one for a large number of countries. It is a question which was put to me. I believe that they are well aware the subsidy was because was what meant was platens what the common market is giving to the African republics of French expression as we see is left for the export of course nobody like the pleasure ones which are given to somebody else. But measurements did exist in some part of the world before to come and knock if they can be suppressed. Certainly it's not very easy to suppress them. You have also a great expanse of that because when they have been adopted people who enjoy them believe that they are natural. And for the time being so it leaves the African would not like the suppression of trade and say enjoy in the market. The European

community but it has been explained to them that the present situation cannot endure in the present form. Already I believe some concession had been made to other African countries which where former British colonies and I believe that we had to reduce these preferences in the course of the years. But certainly I agree with you. It's never easy to see them never pleasant to supplies them for the people who did enjoy them. I wonder if this is at the stage if we couldn't take another look at this problem of how the common market affects the rest of the world so far we've been dealing with commodities we've talked about wheat and coffee and wood pulp and aluminum and we've talked about the economic aspects and wondering if we aren't leaving something out. The political impact of the Common Market. I would like very much if we could get a view on the political impact of the Common Market on the rest of the world

from somebody who has had a first hand opportunity of studying the common market very closely and that is Professor Ian MacDonald of the University of Toronto. Would you get a comment. Mr. Chairman it might appear presumptuous for a Canadian in the presence of so many outstanding Europeans to draw attention to some aspects of the common market that have received insufficient attention not only at this conference but throughout Canada. However it is quite understandable I think that economic matters should appear dominant in the full flush of success and therefore deserve prior place. However there are some Canadians who would regard themselves as Europeans in the sense of being sympathetic to and aware of the wide impact of the new Europe. And it is this broad flavor of the new institutions which should be the true source of inspiration. I believe them that the common market represents the practical face of a spiritual force if you like

by carrying through the visionary zeal of a number of Europeans on a human to go Sperry. Spock to name a few. A force that as we know has resurrected hope from the ashes of World War 2 and given promise of continued regeneration. That is why I am concerned lest we concentrate too much on the narrow economic consequences of the Common Market. It is true that the Treaty of Rome is an economic document. It is also true that we do not live by bread alone. Even in Geneva part and that the ultimate success of the Common Market may depend upon what happens in political social military and even cultural spheres. And in Canada during the past year we have betrayed the same bias a constant concern for the economic gains and losses arising from the Common Market. I believe that this false limitation has left Canadians with both an

imperfect and an improper view of the Common Market. In the long run the Common Market will mean more than just tariff adjustments. Capital flows and productions to sticks. And I say that with a characteristic modesty of course of the professional economist. And so it is my hope that before this evening is over and certainly before this conference concludes we will consider not only the standard of living and the balance of payments which are after all merely symptomatic of political activity. But we will also ponder questions such as the impact of the Common Market on the cold war on the shape and appearance of Natal on the future of the Commonwealth on tension in Central Europe on the concern of new nations outside Europe that the new Europe harbors imperialism and above all on the prospects for harmony of political interest not only in the North Atlantic but in the whole world. I would merely conclude by recalling the dictum of

Professor Hall Stein about the European economic community when he said that we're not in business or in politics. I should be most grateful that members of the panel would care to consider some of the implications of this dictum. I would think particularly at this time of Professor Errol thank you. I would not like to evade the issues. But you had you have to me so many question about the political implication that I would like to answer your question to you. What is special is a political implication. You want us to consider. Because to answer the implication about the relation between west and east and you know about the Cold War about the need to talk about the uncommitted world for a three minute answer is really too much.

So what is the question you have specially in mind. Otherwise if I make a choice on that you will see that I try to dodge the issue. Perhaps I might then do the dodging for you and I should be quite willing for a start to confine this to a area which has economic overtones. Certainly let us consider the impact on nature on the shape and the future of Natal. Each woman waits for the time being I would say your being community has no direct impact. Meet the many difficulties which are related in the views of Washington to the policy of general of the gold specially the needs of you General de Gaulle. Does the altitude of the American government and its goals both slot

because it's when he sees agreement it is mutual. But it's perfectly clear that these difficulties especially about the French Atomic Force about the number of French division which should be put at the disposal of all these question are as a purely military or political. And if they are not directly affected by the fact that the easy yachting community in the economy treat So my answer was a short one is that for the time being the European community does not change a fundamental problems inside. Secondly I would say that whatever being forces Europe reinforce it. Because after all they need to depend on the Haitian India dependence between Western Europe in the United States

and one of the partners of need to become stronger. I believe its good for need but certainly there is an aspect is a problem which way I will only mention because a discussion will be long and technical. That is a problem of Defense as you well know is the American government is convinced. That's a spreading of atomic weapons is bad is dangerous. As Mr not now man I said the national debt tenants will be expensive prone to obsolescence in not deficient. Very little credibility as you put it on the other side. The French government of the present French government is determined to go on with the production of atomic weapons. The British government was not specially pleased by the speech of Mr. McNamara and of course the secretary of defense if you days later said that what he has said did apply only to the

French that came in force but of course nobody outside the House of Commons and not even in the House of Commons did believe that it was perfectly clear that what Mr McMahon I have was seeing was well lit as well but as the English was a French detail but in spite of the fact the two governments go on with their plan of national that there. I believe that one of the consequences of joining the Common Market is that there will be if you organisation of Defense need I cannot win. We regret that we must leave out with us or at all is making this point. Discussion will continue for two more days of good teaching on the new Europe. If you'd like to attend one of the sessions Geneva parkas Nira Radia UN Terrio. Tickets are available at the doors of Copland hall. David Gregory or financial editor of The Toronto telegram shared tonight's discussion on the Common Market. And these were the participants. William diddled from the

Council on Foreign Relations in New York. Adi Munn a consulting and research economist from Montreal the Director of Studies at they call Prateik is already queued in Paris. Professor emmel at all and from the faculty of the Department of Economics at York University in Toronto proper good one. Later this evening on the CBC television network you may see the first TV program ever prepared it could change. It will be an hour long and several of the panelists heard throughout the week on radio will be taking part. Tomorrow night the conference turns to a consideration of the country's east of the six and the seven the principal speaker on Eastern Europe and a native of Yugoslavia. A lot of nerve up. Coming in this develop its presentation will be professor at all at all. And Marshall Crowe economic advisor to the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce and Toronto will be chairman later this autumn a book based on deliberations here will be published by the University of Toronto press Toronto five its price will be $2 and copies may be ordered from the publisher. Bob Wilson speaking

technical operation for these broadcast from good teaching is by John Skelton. This is CBC Radio the Trans Canada network.