Voices of Europe; Dr. Carlo Levi and Dr. Riccardo Bauer

Voices of Europe Milton Mayer author and lecturer broadcaster and professor of social research from the University of Frankfurt has been traveling throughout many of the countries of Western Europe recording the voices of ordinary people on a wide variety of subjects. These are voices of Europeans who are alive and sensitive to the tragedy and dilemma of the conditions that surround them. People who can speak directly and candidly of their own feelings and their own aspirations. What is Rome. What is Italy like today almost 10 years after the war. Milton Mayer asks this question in Rome of Carlo Levy author of the novels Christ stopped it ably and the watch. Mr. Mayor. Senior lady. What is Raul. Well it is very difficult to answer briefly to your question him. The answer should implicate the Hulu East Study of the and

Syrian and of the model of the war to deter mine what that thing unique could hardly interiorly combine a civil police role. I don't know another city like heat and perhaps that never will be. That never can be. Let me tell you the reason for this. Rome is called Zia tout city. But why is it that this rule it is oh so misleading. Eternity you know is something that never changes. But all is onerous. Changing So it is not a terminal in that way. No are in the religious and theological stuff of the common truck but it does also or was. This AM ALWAYS 0 mm of all of the ages of the West in the war.

Therefore all of these scientists of all the human conditions. And so it is a paradox. It is a term of the content part of it that these IM A opinion because you are a character from the place of the it terribly present contempt but I need you for the threesome. I crush adore almost this second go from a book the walk tenderly I think the water shore contains all of the possible R Us of the tied game is this symbol of for all in the feasts living in a Jetta can we targeted. This eternal quantum button A.J.. You see for yourself your seat the first day the first tower. You are a role. Model CD ROM is a wonderful model of a city completely alive

fashionable the young exciting. But Paris it goes like this and they think you are called son but as Iris and maybe many other good citizens they work. But all me is unique because you have all of the theories not all the new set against the one and all of them know ancient and modern in competition in other great cities there is a new seat here in the end all when the Model S.. And an ass and the NEP to date population and a primitive population. Here is where all me is different. Your arm of the older than you are or one. You see the same bass and dismayed about the feet. So. All of the ages so we just slide. Already started to experience this and become a part of from this blend into it. I remember my first visit to Rome

as a small boy. Through a little for a very decently southerly physically sailed as a gondola in a suspect and side by side with every day life. Everywhere in the seat. Every little street and passage leads to eat. And again out of the modern ZM sent the media their innocence and the mud up out everywhere it is seated or together or apart of one another. These in Rome is all normal. Look at my home here. A very modern apartment and studio in it. Ansin palace. You're only discussed to me for people who believe in innocent but us Miss Ingate in this it was. Nobody to mock some these disquieted still do not know the fashionable automatic about of things seen here lately.

Coming as I have recently from Germany and seeing everywhere these great piles of ruins all over roll mm. The first thing I'm tempted to think is what terrible bombing Rome must've endured in the last war. And then of course I remember that Rome was not really bombed the center of the city was not bombed at all and that these ruins are 2000 and more than 2000 years old. Coming from America I must say. And seeing the ruins of the Coliseum the Palatine the fort on the Pantheon in the most central sections of the city downtown as we would say in America. I'm tempted to think as an American this is very valuable land and a really modern city would would put it to some good use.

Perhaps even I could imagine that in America a real estate company would buy the ruins of the Coliseum and tear them down and build a skyscraper a 50 story skyscraper called the Coliseum apartments. Real nice so they'd be many periods of peace that we only see their own big destructions. All of the marvelous building self and it's not us where Bear was an ancient mobbers deserted despoiling got a compass of Roman columns sun dress and monuments. People used that as the. Ancient joke he left in their quad known for Sharon to battle buddy Fitzgerald to Barberini to these descriptions about about a house where a neighbor to do reports of the Barberini family they ever done for the building of his

boxing. Bet that. This moment that moment was a moment of caution. Doctor I've gone. Through round of Michelangelo and I fired. And this is fucked. All of us preserve it. The beauty that went before and we're gong to eat. Bringing the old to the new and the new with the old. The thought that. There was always since the growing of protect or from continuity and harmony and this is the reason it all fits together. War somewhere the destruction of us by Mussolini. For his forests a DL for practical Kaunda enough imperial taste of wide spaces. Where is the origin of the destruction of the speed of the bought of the beater of the quartos that I want to be at 73 and that

I will do what he said and that I would have wished oh. But dizzy living in energy or for all Michelle I hated the room and seen the self check to her body. There not grow out of her own which we tourist must. See. Your home as he thinks that jewellers must see not enough the doctor not the ology region he studied natural. This things out he never got an A for all. In those are things out of the daily life for all. Yes. I was thinking just now that. Last night. I attended a symphony concert. In the outdoor amphitheater of a best seller The most NZ all of it seemed to me to be. As magnificent A and M for theatre for modern symphonic performances as anything that could exist in the world and it was certainly very old who where there was a

bill about 20 centers ago. We thought only this son in particular t another city would be extremely conservative. Your god was there good trials stuff and and deep witty and use easy principle concepts used to preserve them to fit. They have stopped leaving. The people are conservative tied directly to the past. But their own. Preserve us and dignity with the eternally present life and for that reason that arm is not a concept but this. Eternal City senior lady this eternally contemporary city as you call it. What does it do to its citizens. What is it like to be a role model. For us. Zero miles up critical people not skeptical but critical to.

What makes them that way. And the ages they are able to leave through the changes they have absorbed and survived. Second they have a sense of. Of. Superiority for this Amory's m s e for out for possible things. All of our lives are in all of the die easy course of history. His sense of superiority is the negative side of couse it keeps them from being enthusiastic even about all of those things which does and. But. It also has a positive side. It gives them stability in the past Specter was a passing natural things. But all MB is seen as done this to mean everything. There almost cannot be led like a mob.

Mussolini himself was never able to women rarely are on their own. A survivor does Caesars Rick up to Junior's rebar barriers up awards to faces the names of everything but what is the relation the senior lady between the city and its people what is the living relationship between the city and its people. You must think of from Issa shell as the most beautiful form of travel the world but inside that shell the animal lives. There are many people and more of his life. A carving of the shell is more. Then it is at all for sainthood the same story. The animal is always small dings in form of the shell to. The piece coughed up a book. But law.

Is a basic form of the shell remains the same whether this unique aroma Durst. To his people is to give them ether own inexhaustible retarget. The pleasures of the moment people out of the sample and natural they are the pleasures of friendship and consideration then conversation. You know Mundell does not want to be into town. He want to sit with this framed in aid to drain him Paul with the poorest toll we're conversationally says great displeasure. You know this is not watching television not bring it up. Painted by a professional. Drop us just say think of this sample human pleasure of civilized man. This vitality of the Romans the chills spoken of senior lady I've certainly seen it in my visits here what is it secret.

Where is it really come from what does it mean. It's examples of a soulless style. This sense of time test of time 0 man draws his rate County from Nino's size of the harmony of die. The continuity of free study which you see and believe all around him the war did not began yesterday. Not to we'll eat in tomorrow. Milton mair interviewed Carlo Levy in a studio apartment at the top of an old palace in Rome. He described it like this. You turn off a busy modern street at the Piazza deli a zoo and you're in an old courtyard. You climb a great wide marble staircase lined with statues and fragments of statues. One of these fragments is in the form of a little finger of a right hand pointing straight upward. It is the fragment of an ancient statue. The rest of which has never or at least not yet

been found. This little finger of a man's right hand in marble is about five feet long. The original statue must have been more than two hundred feet high. But now let's go back to hear the close of the interview. As Milton Mayer talks to the author of bestsellers who was once before fascism in Italy a doctor and a painter. Here is Milton Mayer. And now I've seen your lady it's about three o'clock in the afternoon the time when. Respectable Romans go to lunch. Yes let's go to the closest place where they usually eat. Just as I was a cub. But we mustn't be just around the corner not in Rome that's what Americans would do they would rush just around the corner to the nearest place for lunch. I think perhaps we should eat somewhere historic if you can find me have a historic place an

historic role. But that EPS is in Iceland Davis ball kind of. He's sufficiently study for you. Busy plays to have your season was taped. Thank you very much. Comedy maybe. Milton Mayer interviewed Dr. Ricardo Barr in Milan exactly a week before the collapse of fascism in Italy in 1983. Dr. Barr saw the light of day almost for the first time after 17 years in muscle Ynys prisons and penal lions. Before that Dr bar's career had been varied. The son of a merchant in Milan he studied economics there before the First World War in which he served as an officer of artillery then resumed his studies after the war and became secretary of the social Museum of the famous humanitarian society of Italy. A public organization founded in the last century to help solve

the educational and professional problems of workers lives. This organization was active until fascism and is active again in providing work for the unemployed. But in 1924 the humanitarian society was seized by the fascist government in Milan and Dr Barra left the organization to become a teacher. He lost his teaching job because of his relentless opposition to fascism. And so he revived a famous liberal Philosophical Review il cafe its first issue secretly distributed of course was published in July 1924 immediately after the assassination by the fascists of the great Italian Liberal leader Marty ot the magazine was suppressed by the regime in 1925 and for a while Dr Barr edited a journal of the Co-operative movement. But this too was immediately suppressed. In October 1926 Dr. Ricardo Barr was imprisoned for political activity sent to a penalize island and held there until 900 28 and in

1930 after he had gone on with this political activity against the government. He was again arrested sentenced to 20 years imprisonment and at the outbreak of the Second World War taken to a penal colony on a small island off Italy three days before the Allied occupation of Sicily he was brought back to Rome and held in prison there until the collapse of the fascist government. How did Italy look after 17 years imprisonment. Milton Mayer asks this question of Dr. Ricardo bar that there bar what Italy looked like in August of 1943. It is not there. Is it just some of us in few words the political and social situation in Italy. I shall try to do it to the basic elements of this situation. I left prison when the dictatorship was falling.

It fell as a consequence of the military defeat. When the Allied top's Duke feat in Sicily. If a national and industrial Lang's the monarchy and the Vatican acted together what they conceived since they had their choir they said to do that and this is men and fascism could not to reach the purpose of imperial domination of the world. With the first I've seen you on the saline NG they tried to escape the responsibility they issue by having approved and sustain the dictatorship in all its lawful and learned form of vengeance in and or inter nation of fit. But if history is Jeem left behind itself after its downfall. Every nation. It was impossible to substitute immediately the defeated governing class with a fresh and better one. Because you

know in 20 years the elements of such a class had been systematically suffocated. What was done. Dr. Bauer immediately after the collapse of the fascist regime. The existence is created by the German occupation gave PlayStation after the fall of the immense of the army that had beene of these bands of the death of the dictatorship in all its foolish adventures so for. The politicians coming back from exile and presence could do very little against their non-US deficiency of any political education or for people that burst during silent get periods forced their way from any institution and idea of liberty. The immediate task put before the nation was to give to the

telly and people and the idea of the political action in freedom and buys on it of the atmosphere of violence and insolence in which it had been brought up. The presence of the Germans and the unheard deliberation of most are leaning calls this civil war fund nineteen hundred forty three thousand one hundred forty five. This West a great and sorrowful experience. But notwithstanding hatred and distractions we did and she will it last. If Food for Peace be felt all it demonstrated that a great many Italians were disposed to pay I prize for acquiring new institutional freedom. Secondly it gave evidence of the violence and baseness of fascism. Buddha also had accepted many and many

errors with the position of the mediation of the patient too. But the war of liberation being war would not have that educational efficiency to food which was needed. It allowed that many who had a greater responsibility for the misdoings of patients could be of the ability to get lost in fighting against Germany and they were permitted to use shawm tasks and functions in the political life of the free nation. This fact hinder and still hinders their political and social recovery of the nation which meant Dean's positions that were typical of the dictatorship of the permanent dominion of city called classes of interests on the continent. Their cover of the nation will be possible only by means of a substantial transformation.

Why is so profound a transformation still needed in Italy. Italy is a nation in which the social differences are enough. Yes there are deep splits between one class of citizens and the other. Between one and the other regions between can do it and sit between us and sours. The causes of this situation must be found in this same way of the nation that reached its unity. Only in the second half of the last sentence after centers of political weakness. They prizes of the fishies period suspend of this law progress progress of election of advances institutions political and economic that independence and unity had begun giving a better base of freedom and welfare to the world population. And not only to a privileged minority. Then he barely ssion after the downfall of fascism. Short hair is all

that plus a process. But the absence of good elements impeded this and the political and social life in it it is only formally Democratic It gives British citizens a freedom is they did not fall. During the dictatorship. But it seems not to big capable doors solve the problems created by the distaste in which a great many members of the population are actually living. Democracy is not only a mode of political organization it must be an economic organisation of justice and equality for all. This cannot be if the economic life of the nation is traced to the initiative of the last US and their souls. We did not. Is it in the past to give fascism their powerful support for the defense of their sectional interests and urge of the nation to the disaster. They have to

daily the same fuel and degree stick tendencies. These people do not know that common names can not be felt by means of police and take starting a loss but only by the positive resolution of the social problems which are the platform of the propaganda of the Communist Party. And what should be done of a positive sort to resist communism in Italy. Dr. Bauer. It is clear. And it political the many liberties granted by the Constitution our charter must be honestly applied and defended. But remember that liberty can be defended only by means of liberty and not by means of violence and of oppression and the abuses of power. And economic and social demand. Their cover of the nation can be attained only by an effective and non superficial the new wing of the public administration and institutions. Do we solve the problems of the

masses that are still living in this place. I really hope that this cannot be reached by Indianapolis action but by a continuous effort for the creation of all citizens education to their political beauties with out find that this is meant in dollars and violence to their economic and social duties of serious work and deficiency. This is the reason why we have a revival. Just look at our own money time and now Dr Bauer that you are once again director of Italy's great chair retiring How long do you think it will be before the ideals of the chair are achieved. It does no importance to establish our long this task will be education he said permanent task and it must be initiated and

realized without consideration of success. Thank you very much Dr. Bauer. Milton Maier American author and lecturer broadcaster and professor of social research from the University of Frankfurt has been interviewing Dr. Ricardo Bower director in Milan of the sociate of mana Taria the humanitarian society of Italy. A man who has spent 17 years in muscle Ynys prisons and penalize islands for daring to oppose fascism in Italy earlier in the program Mr. Mayer interviewed Carla Levy Roman who was once a physician but who Before fascism became famous as a painter then exiled from Rome during fascism. Carla Levy wrote his first novel cry stopped and ably a bestseller all over the world. Last year his second novel The watch was published in The New York Times called it the main literary event of the season. The watch is a novel of the place that Carlo Levy knows best. His city Rome

and it was there in his studio apartment at the top of an old palace. But Milton Mayer interviewed him. These two men interviewed today are merely a representative sample of the millions of voices of Europe some of which are being heard now for the first time. These are the voices of citizens of other countries who speak to the American people unimpeded by the artificial screen of cable costs and scarce newsprint. These voices will help us to understand the basic conditions of life in Europe and help us to understand the views the people have of their own problems. The program you have just heard is made possible under a grant from the fund for adult education an independent organization established by the Ford Foundation. These programs are prepared and distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters. In the interests of better international understanding this program was introduced by Norman McKee and this is the end E.B. tape network.