Georgetown forum; Latin America: Student dissent

Latin America student dissent the topic for the eleven hundred and sixty eight consecutive broadcast of the Georgetown University radio forum. Another in a series of educational and informative programs from Washington D.C. The drudge town forum was founded in 1946. This is Wallace Manning speaking to you by transcription from the Raymond Rice studio on the campus of Georgetown University. Historically as you would see to learning in the nation's capital today's discussion will be a Latin America student dissent participating are Dr. Thomas Dodd assistant professor of history at Georgetown University. Mr. fronts Yvonne Sauer a graduate student from Mexico currently a Ph.D. candidate in political science at Georgetown. Dr. Harold E. de those university professor of Latin American Studies School of International Service the American University and Armando Maan a graduate student from Argentina currently

studying economics at the American University. Headlines in the news media have impressed on us the fact that serious student dissent exists in Europe and at home here in the United States but may not be as well-known is the fact that for 51 years there has been a Latin American student movement characterized by two generations of ferment a movement which is a curious amalgam of various voices. We ask today's guests to evaluate the history and present status of student dissent in Latin America with an emphasis on its unique features its main political thrust and its climate of intellectual elitism if time permits. Our panel may discuss how spontaneous The movement is and to what extent if at all it has been manipulated by forces outside the 21 Latin nations. I plan will attempt a comparison between student dissent in our country and its Latin American counterpart. And

that's actually where we're going to begin asking Dr. Davis. Are there similarities comparisons that might be drawn between the students and in Latin America and here Mr. Fanning. I might respond to that question I think by referring to the manifesto that the students in Argentina issued some 51 years ago that in a sense began what we call this the student movement of rebellion in Latin America. And it suggests some very striking similarities I think to the way our students are thinking and responding and acting today. For example the statement with which they begin in 1918. We are treading over a revolution. We are living an American Power. And then it goes on until now all the universities have been the secure refuge of the mediocre the source of income for the ignorant and asylum for the feeble. A place for all the forms of tyranny and insensibility found a profession

professorial chair to teach them. And then we want to root out from the authority from the university organism the archaic and barbarous concept of authority they go on to say. Youth does not know beg. It demands recognition of its right. I think this is just from the many striking similarities to those of us who have been listening to some of the dialogue going on today. Dr. Davis you have a comment on that. I use what's known as a faculty member. I see striking similarities of course in that manifesto but what interests me very much in reading a manifesto like this I see something that seems to have gone on and on through history the young attempting to control or at least to direct the contemporary society in which they live. Are we seeking to control it or to redirect it in their own interests and for their own objectives.

But I think it's important to note is that the dissent in Latin America is I think considerable more intense or it has been over the years mainly because it is an area of the world which is developing which has reflected I think some very serious and grave. Disparity in society and so forth and therefore students are more sensitive to it and they I think through the years in Latin America have reflected in intensity as I've said the man for not just refer him in a university but also an attempt to redirect the society in rural beyond the university gates of the seat of learning. Thank you Dr. Dot I'm so I'm sorry. Let's let's hear from Mr. von SAR at this point who is from Mexico. Yes well I would like to continue on that Dr. dog's point. I think another area

where you might consider is slight difference from the U.S. experience has been and the cultural and intellectual priority that the student has been given in Latin American society throughout there is to bring out the words you had in your introduction a sort of intellectual elitism that doesn't in my opinion exist yet for the student in this country. In other words to student Occupy is a has always occupied a very important position of very high and respected position in Latin American societies and I asked him you know going sorry if those that come from the fact that. He probably was ahead to begin with. I mean he was he comes from families who were able to to plan and execute his higher education and those on the lower strata are not are not likely to receive such an education.

Well that's perfectly correct. In other words the student already automatically by the mere fact that he does enter a university has traditionally tended to belong to the upper crust of society. But precisely because Latin America has this great to have this vast Abizaid between the lower classes and the upper classes and the student in his leadership trying to reform society has tended to become sort of the bastion for democracy that is to say he represents the democratic aspirations of the people and translates them and expresses them in in the best manner. Dr. Davies I wonder if I couldn't just direct the question Mr. run slower here on this point because until last year. A good many of us who are interested in Latin America were saying that in Mexico all the student population had changed that it was no longer so characteristically an elite

population that students were being drawn from the lower and middle sectors. But they were chiefly interested in their professional careers. So there was little likelihood of the university students of Mexico going out on one of these demonstration binges and then all of a sudden the lid blew off last fall. How do you explain it is the Mexican student body still as much an elite body as as the one in Argentina let's say. Or has it. There is a different well of course say yes to the situation of man out of Mexico I think is slightly different from many other countries in Latin America have a preset predominantly because of the fact that it has advanced so much in recent years. I think the major reason or one of the major reasons was precisely this question of autonomy that played a very important issue at the University of Mexico and has a Since the late one thousand twenty six placed a great emphasis almost a

religious fervor on the question of university autonomy. There had been some dissent in the university between among student groups various student organizations as far as university administration is concerned and the unfortunate thing was that the guards at the police and the army went into the university and this became sort of the rallying point for the students to unite. In other words say the idea that foreign elements I'm saying foreign because they are not university elements that foreign elements of society like the military have stepped into the campus was an affront to university autonomy that helped consolidate the student movement I think it did. It was more this than any Mr. Mr. Manohar Argentinas been the repression heard from here it was from well

there's two of us going from Argentina. I would like to say these are green these elite group was the one who composed most of the student population of the universities I think. One of the main reasons why the student body and the universities were so concerned in letting America with those issues those politically shows that were is so hard. Let's call them over there reflects precisely the fact that the student body doesn't belong to day two of the elite groups Dalit groups would tend to see them here in the United States

as conservatives only guards as we tend to call them. And precisely the type of population that the university has is the reverse of these. They are mostly coming from the middle classes in their lower stratum so of the population. And this is precisely what makes the university students tick the fact that they want to change the situation by precisely fighting against this so called upper groups of the political ruling in the country. So today I think that this is a situation the population of the universities we showed in the group of people that want to fight against can be usually

conservatives like in America Mr. Munn wouldn't you think though that this differs somewhat from one country to another. I think what you are describing perhaps would apply to Argentina. Would it apply equally to Peru let's say. Perhaps I think are old so let's call them democratic or you know they they have student body from all of this drought as a country also Colombia and quite a few new universities in Venezuela today are having students from all the stress. What if I make them a lot of time to read Dr Davis is a question that he just raised. Something comes into mind right away. So many students in Latin America work their not down they must go. And that

perhaps they may be a trend in the direction where those who don't have to work will become the leaders of student movements I wonder if this might not be the case say in Mexico that those who don't have to be employed to sustain and keep their presence in a university might ultimately be the leaders of student movement something competitors. Yes I want to raise this again and I'm not so sure there's a leveling off everywhere and that is it. I just want to raise this point with you and see what how you respond to that. Well I think there is no thank you. I say that there is a yeah. Tendency in Latin America I think one of the seven plagues if you want to hear if Latin American student politics is the fact that you have a large number of professional students to contend with. In other words students that dedicate themselves to be longing professionalised and rising through naturally to high political positions through the

university. I tend to agree with you that nowadays your recruitment in universities tends to come from a more representative base of society. However it's always been. And there have always been certain key faculties or key schools that have played an important role in student dissent. The law faculty for example is very important in that the medicine faculty would tend to be more conservative than the law faculty. The social science faculties tend to breed very much of this professional student who rises to high political positions later. Again Im supporting my statement of how intellectuals do tend to be respected. Is the fact that most national leaders in Mexico for example today I in fact I can't think of any top level leaders in either in the cabinet and the presidency who have not

gone to the university. Who have not emerged from universities from the University student dissent movement often very often from the university to say it's so not you know we said at the beginning that this Latin American student movement is half a century old I think 51 years to be exact rendered it really start to show some some results. Has it over a long period of time or only since we've had similar student dissent movements across the world. I want to be on a diet yes ma'am and I started off in a way and it seems to me that the you know the Cordoba movement of 1918 well directed towards university reform that is structural reform may have reflected. The emerging middle class of the prominence of it in Argentine In that case but what is very

striking and I think worth noting is that the Cordoba movement ignited or precipitated the development of a number of parties. And other countries have different different personalities Yast but I'm thinking of something while in Peru opera which certainly had some very wide ramifications besides of course university reform it reflected an indigenous movement in part. So many acts on democratic and Venezuela different shade different coloration there but I think the movement that Dr. Davis referred to at least his early quote there did develop into something far more significant than just simply university reform it really began to revolutionize party structure in other republics in Latin America don't you think so Dr. me up to that point from I mean I think that the president had to come at us certainly exactly to the point. But I think what I would go one step further and say that

probably was more significant in the in its political influence than it was actually within the university that many of the things that the university reform was demanding they did not get but they did get one major thing which they have had to live with ever since in the university and this was a pattern of university organization in which faculty and students and frequently alumni have participated in constituting the governing board and this is one of the issues that our students today. I talking about a great deal. Who makes the decisions. They are asking and they're proposing a pattern of organization which in many ways is quite similar to what they the students proposed back here and they're in Latin America and what they got in the may well know is they are a success story there that we could pattern ourselves after as far as you're concerned. I'd rather turn that question to our Latin American students hey that's a very you

know it was a mystery. It's already there were well within the university and I am again now only talking in terms of an institution that I'm more acquainted with at the University of Mexico. I mentioned previously the issue of autonomy which was one of the major political issues within the first of all let me interrupt you just and we're assuming that you had this in Mexico now along the lines discussed by doctors Darden Davis and it was what broke down in Mexico. Maybe if we understood that last at the end of last summer prior to the Olympic Games and so forth. What happened. What broke down there. Well I you know unfortunately was not present in Mexico during the entire problem. I was there only at its beginning stages. I do know from talking to Mexican students that the issue as it was initially

presented became much greater. Yeah it became really a yet. Sure a force between the student body and then descend on the part of students primarily based upon the fact that it's softened like in most Latin American societies. You create a group of professionals that is to say you create lawyers architects engineers through the university system and you do not create at the same time institutions whereby these people might make a living later. Therefore you very often come up with a student population that is frustrated that doesn't see a great future for itself either because of the lack of top notch universities throughout the entire country where you can find a teaching positions or the overcrowding of the profession. Lack of technical schools in many countries. In Mexico this is not the case said there is a

great emphasis on technological saying such as that of Monterrey and the police they can be going to Mexico City but. In Latin America in general there has been more of an emphasis on humanities on the professionals what we call here in the United States professional schools then the technological areas where people might work in society within society in a much more urgent way or in the areas that are much more urgently needed. Today in these developing countries what I was going to bring out in the case of Mexico is do you have the success story there as far as I can see has been also the development of opposition parties to what has predominantly tended to be a one party system. The two major opposition parties today grew out of student movements to a certain extent at least the leaders of both parties were major figures in the

university in the Socialist Party. But about all of that no. And the conservative and National Action Party have a remotely or by the name of Comus Martine and the other success story politically within the university itself has been the success of the autonomy question the fact that the university was able to keep its autonomy in the 1030 said despite our duty to do this work for all who didn't do this. The strike begin in Lee in a secondary school. Yes and what what was responsible for the fact that the that the police had to intervene at this point and in the center violating the autonomy. Well I think the the issue of the day this summer in Mexico I was slightly aggravated by the Olympics which were going to be held in that

later on. And of course I don't think this example this case this summer was a failure of the question of autonomy it was merely perhaps an overreaction on the part of the government for fear that if the student dissent within the university the student problems and we've got to remember that most of the games were going to be held near the university or at the university. You had the original email of a You administration worried about the fact that Mexico might not be able to keep up its commitments to the world. So I think this may be an explanation of why it overreacted I don't think it's a manifestation of that a failure on the part of the students on the autonomy question because Sort of us is very well aware of the president of Mexico off off the tee having him inviolability at the top. Autonomy question he can think was a student.

Thank you Mr. Jones are now we may ask Mr. Maher. Does the university system in Argentina evolve from the quote above. Yes and yes you know and how would you measure it there for us as well as I've done to me has been very successful. You know Dana as far as meeting the students express themselves and promoting a political organization many times you know Argentina was one sided in the period from 1946 until 1955. We had a one party system for a new system. It was the students the ones that I believe checked the bridges accessions you know the government did in Argentina the Tanami through say has been violated.

Diamond time again not only no urgency no but just about every working life in America. What can we say about successfulness if successfulness means to be outdone in the US and to our big completely free or filed site influencers. Then we can say that their universities by enlarging like in America have not been successful because they have been interfered by the government time and time again in these cases had been when the. Governments were to one extreme or to the other to be you know didn't you know we do not have done I mean we have their government. We respect state constitution as far as certain liberties are concerned we have complete liberty of expressing ourselves. But the done to me of the university is

not operating today. The professor sorry I signed by the government the minister and. Not they do not permit certain political factions to express themselves freely. If I could insert a very minute Mr Manning this is a change a lot of the present of the recent administration just a year or two ago wasn't it. Oregano changed a law and abolished a university autonomy essentially in July 18 in July of meaning 66. The things being things being what they are may I ask our two guests in the remaining two minutes. Things being what they are. Would you favor the system in this country or the system in Mexico and Argentina. You mean the system of autonomy. Or this city. Yeah

if you wish to break it down. Yes well in general terms. Well I do favor the concept of autonomy for Latin America because it's basically a different issue I think and this is one of the big differences between the Latin American and the US student movements in their Latin America very often and I think most of the time the university depends for its livelihood on the government. And it it depends on on the government so much that you have a sort of a dichotomy. To a certain extent you need the funds and at the same time you don't want to depend on the on the government for funds to where do you where do you get it. I think in the case of the United States there is a more varied situation. So what you're saying is it's a matter of apples and oranges for I'm right right right. And how do you feel about that

Mr. Mann. I feel quite the same way I think I'll Donnelly's something that shouldn't be. We should have it in Latino America but I do not think it is the nation that should be the main one in the United States. University of movement. I do not think that the universities here are oriented in the same way as our words are and I do not think Don I mean one of the points that should be brought out by the student movement here in the United States. Gentlemen thank you very much for your discussion of Latin America and the United States I might add and student dissent. I thanks to Dr. Thomas Dodd assistant professor of history at Georgetown University. Mr. Francis funds are a graduate student from Mexico currently a Ph.D. candidate in political science at Georgetown University. To Dr. Harold E. Davis University professor of Latin American studies the School of

International Service the American University and Mr. Armando. A graduate student from Argentina currently studying economics at the American University. You have attended the weekly discussion program the Georgetown University radio forum broadcast of which was transcribed in the Raymond Rice studio on the campus of historic Georgetown University in Washington D.C. next week you will hear discussed the plight of Soviet Jewry. Our panel at that time will include Dr. Isaac Frank executive vice president of the Jewish Community Council of Greater Washington. And Mr. Leon Volkoff contributing editor for East European affairs and Newsweek magazine. This program has been presented in the interest of public education by Georgetown University. Your moderator. WALLACE banning this program was distributed by the national educational radio network.