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Comments on a minority Klux Klan hasn't been too strong in recent years in almost day areas of the South. I think there has been. A resurrection of the Klan in some of some areas. The White Citizens Council. By citizen councils have come. To mean that they made a seventy nine hundred to four and some and some states are calling the state right as they they take several different names. The voice is that of Dr. Benjamin IIM-A president of Morehouse College in Atlanta Georgia and an outstanding leader of the American Negro community. Dr. Mays was interviewed during a visit to DePaul University in Greencastle Indiana during the fall of 1958 by our producer E-W Richter in the portions of the interview with him which we hear today. Dr. Mays speaks of the forces operating both for and against segregation.
Frankly I I think he is a very thin veil. Between the two cars clad in the White Citizens Council this is a personal. Reaction. Both groups believe in segregation. Now you may have a. Little more. Or are on the part of the White Citizens Council but I'm of the opinion that both groups believe in say the nation so strongly that if they had to get violent in order to maintain it they would so it is for that reason that I. I don't know whether the veil is. I think the veil is pretty thin. I suppose you would call the Law and Order group that you that you mention. We might evolve for argument said that they are the
moderates. There is hardly any way you can know how many people in this cell who believe in segregation but who if they were free would go along with law and order under a court order. Now I state that for this reason. I believe if the political leadership had taken that position if the political leadership of the Deep South and I mean by the political leadership I mean the governors and the attorney generals and your legislator was. If they had taken that position that although we believe then in segregation we also have respect for federal law and we will go along with with federal orders to desegregate.
I think you would have a large number of people with that kind of political leadership who would go along with US law and order decision even though they believe it is a we gauge now how many they are. I don't know I am of the pinion that the vast majority of white people in the Deep South believe in same gauge. I also think that there is an exceptionally large number. If they had had the right political leadership at the top to go it would have gone along. Now the next question about those who will believe that segregation is wrong. I like to believe to believe that there are more of those people than we know and there is no way in the world we can find out
because the liberal person is so who who really believes this segregation is wrong all that is is that it is morally wrong that it is undemocratic and that it is unchristian. And really that it is an economical. That person has been driven underground and if he came out frankly and followed rightly and said that he believed this segregation should be abolished. The community would make it my hot fun if you can get in his statistics on that push. Now that may be a discouraging picture but I think you want reality and as a Southerner living in the south and have elected to live in the south I'm giving you the picture as I see it.
That's what we want. And. The Southerner I think is troubled in mind from what I've been able to see. I've spoken with some people who felt that the law and order should prevail who had an idea that the negro was being mistreated in the south. And yet who recognized that their background their environment their heritage within the Southern framework was such that they might accept it intellectually but would not be able to accept it emotionally I remember one person saying Well I think segregation is wrong when I if a Negro sat down next to me in a bus I don't know what I'd do. This person wouldn't never known a negro and had rather vague feelings in the background. Does this give you something you'd like to talk about. Well I I think it has been overdrawn
if you could hear the testimony of thousands of Southern white people who got over that feeling in a relatively short time maybe by attending a conference where intelligent negroes were participants all by going to college in in the north in the border states where Negroes were students. I think if you would could hear them speak they would tell you that it wasn't as painful an experience as they expected it to be. I I remember years ago and in a Deep South state. I was a
Southern. White man and myself were making a study of the community. It was under the auspices of the Urban League when I was a little league secretary and this young man and I had never in all his life had a meal with. With negroes and when we were having. A dinner that night to talk about our research project he was in a dilemma and he he said to me that I don't I don't have to eat. I'll just come to the meeting and insisted that we'll be very glad to have you eat with us. And I didn't know that it was his face time.
So he made up his mind who is to eat with us and he sat next to me when he got through he ate all right. Nothing happened. The food didn't come back. And he said after that he said you know this is the first time I've ever done this I didn't feel funny. Well let's let's talk about the about leadership in the south. Anti segregation leadership integration leadership this leadership is divided in many ways. You have the white person who speaks out verbally he's not in the majority by any means as a matter of fact he hardly constitutes a minority. So you have the. Negro leaders within the various communities that both lay leaders and church leaders. You have the leadership of such organizations as the Urban League and the National Association for the bounce for the colored people I didn't mention On the one of the white organizations working in this context that is the.
Southern Regional Council. Yes. And the various bodies which are related to this regional council on a state wide on a state basis. Would you like would you like to discuss the relative importance of the work and the effectiveness of the work of these various groups. Well certainly the the liberal minded leader in the white south today though there are a few of very important people. I could mention. At least three newspapers which I shall not name although the editors do not always go as far as I think they ought to go. And as far as I think they could go because I
always believe you can go yes just a step further than you think you can. Those voices are very helpful and constructive and sometimes they speak out in just the right moment. So you you can't you can't negate them. They are important. The Southern Regional Council. Is a quiet wholesome influence. Waking honestly and sincerely to to bring about larger opportunities for Negroes and believe that the Supreme Court's decision should be implemented. There they work.
In Adrian's where the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People could not work and could not go. They bring in do their memberships in a number of the other Southern liberals who have no other way hardly of expressing their liberal views and then their blood tendency. So we need the leadership of the Southern Regional Council. Now in addition to the to the organizations that I have just mentioned that is to the southern region Council and part of the liberal newspapers in the south. I come to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Now this organization has been been criticized and as you know in a number of Southern states trying to put they are going ization out of
business. But the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Moved all the way he says in the area of law. Is not a radical our organization. It uses the machinery of the law the federal Constitution as interpreted by federal judges to bring the gains of civil rights against an equal. They have argued and won most of their cases in the federal courts and in the Supreme Court because they have been successful. They have many many enemies if the in ACP had not gone into the
federal courts. We no doubt would have very few negroes in southern Utah State University perhaps in many sections of the South we would still be without the ballot. The move towards the equalization of salaries public school Souter's and education will come that way despite what we said about the NAACP. There is no other single album ization in America that are brought as many civil rights privileges to Negroes as has the NAACP. Now it has been supported of course by negroes and liberal
minded white people. And the churches have always given the in a c p a platform from which to speak. The white church is well you know I mean the Negro church is indeed which it is. And that you see has put the the two forces the forces of the Negro church right behind the movement for civil rights. And in addition to to that you know what happened in Montgomery that was not the National Association for the Advancement colored people that was a local group with fine leadership. So it is. Martin Luther King and Reverend Abernathy and others. What is whatever one may think about that movement in times
that you can get a movement where people fight for their rights in love and goodwill in patients and without violence. You can't condemn that and ization is if the oppressed if the ex-Pirate are oppressed and the exploited. Cannot win. Through To all the processes of the law. And if they cannot win through love and goodwill and nonviolence what recourse do they have. So I find myself. Really in sympathy with all these movement working towards a better sells and a better America Mr Rector asked Dr. maze to compare the north and the south in terms of the position of the
Negro be. The fundamental. One of the fundamental. Differences in the north and south. Is the fact that the. That the Southern states to deep southern states. And practically all of them support their segregation by law. Is written. Into the Constitution. And in the laws of the state. They can back up their segregation. In hotels and restaurants employment and. Many other areas. They can back it up with state law. And they can all still a bagatelle would force. If this law is violated.
Now in the north. You have your prejudice but you don't have the state behind it. I think it's it makes all the difference in the world. If I am refuse meals in a restaurant in an office where there may be a state civil rights law against it where I can talk with the management about it and not get the police invited in. That's different as the US has different from a situation where you know you are you insisting on something that is against the law and you could be and would be if you insisted on it being being put in jail. I think that's one of the
fundamental differences you. You must eradicate discrimination and segregation based on the law. And that is part of the of the battle in this nation now the negro doesn't want to be stigmatized by the law. Well what do you think General temper. Of the Negro in this country is today. Do you think there has been any change in his feelings and his attitude and his. Well it was a militancy since 1954. I don't think there's been any change in his militancy. You see it was his militancy that brought about the May the 17th 1954 decision. I I think the
where the negro has been disappointed. Is isn't that the that the mood towards the segregation hasn't gone as fast as it might have gone. I think where oh here we are great that is still is not between whether the segregation goes 10 miles an hour or are 60 miles an hour. If I might use an automobile but is between weather whether desegregation goes at the pace of 10 miles an hour are zero. Some people would would lead you to believe that that the that the crucial point is it between how fast you go.
That has never been the issue. And I think that people who try to argue that way they are not honest. They know that isn't the issue. The issue is is whether you move gradually or whether you will at all. Really the issue is between gradualism and never is. And and that's where we are. Terrible terrible it is step. We are We are disturbed again because the negro leadership in the deep south has been almost completely ignored. There hasn't been any at tempt to bring the gather the white and Negro leadership in a local community and say Look.
The Supreme Court has ordered these segregation in public schools. Well you know this community it's put a tough problem. Suppose we sit down and talk about it and have a series of conversations and let us together decide when and where we will begin. Did he segregate. That's good faith. But when the white leadership takes over. And say that under no condition and under no circumstances will there ever be desegregation in this state and this community that rebellion. And that's what disturbs us in the Deep South.
And we are. In this situation as in almost all others. We have been ignored as if we didn't exist. My belief is that the negro leadership would have been reasonable not to not to rebel against a Supreme Court. These I mean the by the leadership. Yeah the negro leadership would have been reasonable at that they would not be unreasonable. Where there is rebellion but the negro leadership would have been reasonable at any honest attempt to grapple with the problem and to begin. And where we have not been given an opportunity that that is exceedingly disturbing and
that I think is is the crux of the matter. It isn't even too late now. But when said states say that we are going to have it on in a condition then that's quite disturbing. Well what do you think the future holds if we accept it at the present time and only certain areas of our country there is a deadlock which the Negro says we want some effort made and the white leadership says never. What do you think the future holds in a situation like this. Now you know that said the toughest question of all. I think when Where do we get a chance to look at I was said was we we're going to move on.
You see never as a long time. And I don't believe in a man that is wise enough to predict and there never be any segregation in his state. When a man talks like that he is easy as he is assuming the role of God. And I don't think that anybody has a right to play God. I I think that we will and ever to boldly move towards desegregation. In every area of American life. A lot of hate. I don't know. If we do not move that way.
We should give up our leadership in the world as a as a great democracy and we should stop talking to the people in ajor and Africa about freedom. And about democracy and we should stop trying to evangelize to either us. So our I will moral leadership in the world is is is at stake. And as long as we hold on to to the American Constitution and it long as we. Preach Christ and talk about God being the father of all mankind we can't
we can't stop working on this problem to make it possible for every American to have the right to grow and to develop unhampered in keeping with his abilities and with his power. We we can't move any other way unless we are going to become a fasces state and that America can't afford. Thank you very very much Dr. Benjamin Mays president of Morehouse College Atlanta Georgia. You have been listening to comments on a minority. I heard today was Dr. Benjamin E. maze president of Morehouse College in Atlanta Georgia. Dr. May's remarks were taken from a longer interview recorded by our producer E-W Richter during the fall of 1958 in connection with the production of the radio program
series the last citizen of the Negro in America produced under a grant from the National Educational Television and Radio Center. Comments on a minority was produced and recorded by radio station WBA a Purdue University. The preceding program was made available to the station by the National Association of educational broadcasters. This is the end AB Radio Network.
Series
Comment on a minority
Episode
Benjamin E. Mays
Producing Organization
Purdue University
WBAA (Radio station : West Lafayette, Ind.)
Contributing Organization
University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip/500-qz22h44h
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Description
Episode Description
This program features an interview with Benjamin E. Mays, a minister, educator, sociologist, social activist and the president of Morehouse College in Atlanta, Georgia.
Series Description
This series explores minority issues in the United States in the mid-20th century.
Broadcast Date
1960-11-08
Topics
Social Issues
Media type
Sound
Duration
00:28:55
Embed Code
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Credits
Guest: Mays, Benjamin E. (Benjamin Elijah), 1894-1984
Interviewer: Thompson, Ben
Producer: Richter, E.W.
Producing Organization: Purdue University
Producing Organization: WBAA (Radio station : West Lafayette, Ind.)
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 60-51-10 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:28:55
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Citations
Chicago: “Comment on a minority; Benjamin E. Mays,” 1960-11-08, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 29, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-500-qz22h44h.
MLA: “Comment on a minority; Benjamin E. Mays.” 1960-11-08. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 29, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-500-qz22h44h>.
APA: Comment on a minority; Benjamin E. Mays. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-500-qz22h44h