Unfinished business; Why Jails Fail - Program 13

Let me out here. OK if I don't get out of this jail God. Or Unfinished Business A series of programs tape recorder designed to acquaint you with the unresolved social welfare problems produced by the Ohio State University under a grant from the Educational Television and Radio Center and cooperation with the National Association of educational broadcasters today's unfinished business why jails fail. A guard I had to get out of here. It's important I tell you. That if you get there no matter is nobody to talk to. Got to wait for a trustee to get around to bring in your water when you want to drink nothing but bread and water. They wouldn't put me in there with them.

They had a 16 year old kid and then the other day how will the Humax turned 18 last week you got a grandma. There's only one left right across from me. Hey guys you better not sleep on any of these mattresses without a sheet. Look at my back. What is it to me it's the itch got in from the dirty mattress on my bunk Yeah. Pretty hard to get rid of that age to better believe it. You've got almost scrub your skin off. Don't judge it. But don't they give out any sheets every Thursday and it's only four days off. Hey what's your name anyway. How old porn is that mattress filthy. No worse than mine. What are you in for Jim. Not much. Three of us couldn't find any work in our hick town so we came down here my jalopy. We had a couple of good leads for the next day so we swapped my jalopy lights not against the law as it now all but round two in the morning I got cold so we hooked a Red Lantern from where they were fixing the road and put it not cos it was to keep warm. There were three other lads there. Cream OIG all going to have a fall out where they're going to sleep there no more

workouts where they sleep on the floor kid what do you expect we'll have mattresses that for some men is joint but I've seen and I see them and when the when 20 guys with sleeping on a floor no blankets either I'll bet cost not. I think I know what you're thinking. County jails are bad. You're painting them much blacker than they are. It's true that everything we're going to tell you about on this program may not be typical of every jail in lockup in the country but everything you hear about will be based on fact. As actually happened in the past few years and probably is still happening in hundreds of jails today. Let's listen in again as the guard leads an 18 year old girl past the bars of the Men's Jail home on the third floor. Later in the day he wears a guard taking the girl down the hall.

Look at She's only a kid. Hey I know her. That's you. I don't assume this is a street that's all. Is that all. What did the judge to find dollars in court costs. Not enough money with me my mom and sister work and that's enough talking. She wishes she's a swell kidding right to put her in the yeah she won't be in there long but they ought not put her in there with all them old saloon hags. Hey Joe is this the twentieth century of the Middle Age lesson but you read the other day about a fellow who was kept in jail for four months because he told police to sailors and picked his pocket and robbed him of 80 bucks so why would they keep him in jail if you will if you didn't do the robbing now they kept him as a witness and the carry. And then he got paid for it. Yeah dollar a day. What happened to the sailors who robbed him. Nothing but a judge suspended his sentence because they promised to pay him back. They weren't in jail even all that's nothing. The paper said the other day they forgot all about an epileptic and left him in jail for some 8 months when he never even broke the law. Some doc

was supposed to send him to a hospital but forgot to sign the papers so he spends eight months in jail and he probably had one of those docs most jails have you know ask you what's wrong with you and give you some pills. They don't take time to really do a job. Yeah you better get ready for your show you guys Chow I hate the stuff I can eat and still my belly sore when even seeing the menu today. Yesterday it was stew and two slices of bread. Today it may be different. Two slices of bread and stew. Somebody told me you can slip money to the trustees and get it. Is that right. Yeah and they get a good rake off its rack. Who are these trustees anyway. Well they give the sheriff money enough for only one guard at a time. So he needs runners so he picks some guys that don't have much to run away for they love to go out of the building one on one out the other day and got drunk. Oh my belly hurt. I heard that's what the judge sent him up for the judge says I'll send you somewhere where you won't be drink it and maybe when you get out you really take your wife and kids and he got drunk while he was a trustee and only two days after the judge sent him

over. Ain't that something. Oh what's the matter Jim. I get worse. It's like can I get her job back for the got you needs a doctor quick. OK I'll bang on the door with this car. Remember we're on the third floor. Maybe 20 minutes before we get to really coming up here that's what it took the other day to get him into Dr. Ludwig. Right but this is jail. If J. What about the jails in your community. Do you know the actual conditions that prevail. Here's an enlightening quotation about jails and the jail was the first known place of detention. In point of time alone the jail is older than the prison and the reformatory it is the parent of all our penal and correctional institutions and its roots go far back into history. In the beginning imprisonment meant only the deprivation of liberty and was used chiefly for the detention of persons awaiting trial. Conviction might mean death if the offense happen to be a felony a misdemeanor. The punishment might be a

fine a whipping the loss of an ear or a tongue or merely exposure to public ridicule. As time passed societies slowly abandoned most forms of physical punishment and turned more and more to the use of imprisonment for all sorts of crimes. The jail became a place for keeping convicted offenders as well as a detention facility for the untried and accused out of the jail through the prison. Then came the reformatory the juvenile school the specialized institutions for different problem types but the jail remains and it is not very different from what it has always been. Jails are the most numerous of all institutions for every prison and reformatory in the country there are about 100 jails and lock ups of various kinds. In actual numbers there are about 4000 county and city jails in the United States. Furthermore the jail is a sieve through which comes the population of all the other penal institutions and a goodly portion of the mental hospitals. More than 1 million persons pass through the jails of this

country each year for every one person committed to a prison reformatory 10 are committed to jails. The turnover is exceedingly rapid in some areas it is reported to be as much as once every 16 days at any given time something like 50000 inmates may be found in our jails. They include the Old and the young. The alcoholic the drug addict and the sex offender. The vagrant the hobo in the trap. The jail is the first institutional experience of its kind for hundreds of thousands of men women and children. Let's listen to a red blooded sheriff and police chief and a good sized city who dared speak up about what they saw firsthand in dealing with jails and lock ups. Chief you want to. Have responsibility is in the true form of operating the city prison the city prison and the lock up are the same thing correct.

In our case that's right. The. Jail that we operate. Is used only for a short time incarceration of these prisoners in some cases a matter of only a few hours or only in extreme cases would it be as long as three days with our particular operate I'm not sure if you were among your other duties I have responsibility for operating the jail which I rarely do. I'm in the county jail where you have. Cases waiting trial for the county court. And also you have. Prisoners serving short term sentences. Not in our particular county jail most counties you'll find that because of the limited space we have a contract with the city work us to have it so that you can send your short termers down to the city where they work. When our Chief tell us the something about the shortcomings of your city the prisoner a lot as you know from firsthand experience when I was appointed on this job as a patrolman almost 20 years ago and

I recall very well the first day I really I reported for duty it was explained to me that the building we were using for a jail. It had been used for some 12 or 15 years at that time but that the police department had moved into it only on a temporary basis for six months and that was almost 20 years ago. This is approximately 8 blocks from our immediate downtown area. We're still using Maggiolo Fortunately we have a new building on a construction at the present time with the facilities that have been provided to us. In order to serve the prisoners that we put into that jail are extremely poor. The sad part of it is that all too frequently the individual citizen looks at the jail and points a finger at the police department and says Why don't you meaning the police department provide better quarters without realizing that after all it is the citizen who decides whether he provides better quarters or whether he doesn't. In our particular instance we have one lock up into which we must place all types of

criminals rubbing shoulders with each other whether they be first offenders whether they be sex offenders whether they be murderers burglars whatever they may be. That is certainly not the way that any prisoner should be treated as a matter of fact the facilities that we have had to use in our community for. Better than 25 years are such that I certainly know one regardless of what he has done should be placed into any cell such as we have been forced to do it and I sure want to back up your jailing you say that you keep prisoners there awaiting trial for the felony court. I want the bad conditions there. Are you able to separate the prisoners are you able to have preferred sanitary conditions. Tell us about do you have you would you want to know you are our dealer in this county is over 80 years old 80 years old or 80 years old. And for the most part where you're able to segregate the hardened criminals from First of Anderson certainly the juveniles from the

adults in that sense you're a little bit better off and much easier with the city prison. Yes we have a little better set up in the city does the present time. We have one real bad feature of our institution is the fact that female female inmates are not segregated by visually. Or by voice from male inmates and it's a very discouraging situation. I want to but if you do you have some overview and I was under your jurisdiction. Yes we at all times have all five six. Times 10 and 12 Jim's not a good thing I know it's a very bad thing and we shouldn't have juveniles. When I wired this community. Keep. You know offenders. Being out for a few core action why can't they keep them out of here or jail. Well it goes back to the. Fact that it has been proposed for years and years. A new juvenile center which would take care of

all juveniles would mean it would have big potential Yes or the way it is now we have a small attention on here and we at the county jail take the overflow from the detention home and also the their problem is that doing some girls too. Yes we have both the boys and girls and they would be about 16 17 somewhere in there. The older ones yes usually the older ones occasionally will get younger disciplinary problems. Now the boys are they separated from the man. Yes we want not the girls. They're separate or they're separated from the adult women but I live on the same floor on the same floor within their voice through voice contact. But she didn't tell us them are part of your city prison and pretty hard to operate and to secure the fire with health. Thomas tomorrow I could just about answer that by saying yes to all of those questions you ask. Lynn made is unsanitary Aetate is a fire trap to some

extent we are faced with a problem similar to the sherif. However I don't believe our problem is quite as severe as the sheriff as it relates to county as the sheriff has just told you his jail is over 80 years old and 80 years ago the population of this community was a lot different than it is today. And yet we're both faced with using the same facilities that was provided for law enforcement 80 years ago. Suppose somebody in your city prison or a lock up in a diabetic coma while one of your officers thought he was drunk. Poured cold water on me you wouldn't have. Any effect on structure no matter or he wouldn't come into our jail in the first place if you were in a coma. We will not permit any of our officers to bring any prisoner into our jail when he's unconscious or in a semi-conscious condition he was first taken to the hospital. That's true. I do know what about you on that sheriff. Well we we have a little better set up we have a county or a jail physician who is on the county payroll.

He cannot afford time job or no as a part time job for the Dr. Ira he is spends a good deal of his time in the institution. It comes down to four and five times a week and his phone call 24 hours a day. Now is there. Is it possible when you're all to open any kind of program for prisoners who will be with you for 30 60 90 days waiting trousering wait offering any kind of a program activity program. Well I it's pretty difficult in our institution however I feel that we're a little more fortunate than most institutions of our type in our two large cellblock areas we have television sets. And that keeps the inmates pretty well occupied who donated a television set. You're right they were donated by a religious are not accounting for greed. Nothing and we provide meager recreation facilities as far as painting and reading material.

Now I want to buy the famous kangaroo court and or the county jail for the United States that one of the kangaroo court when you're in jail. Let's have a kangaroo court and jail. However it is still in existence in some institutions where the inmates take over and run the jail. When I marry it is your right. Kangaroo court to control the prisoners and mates and probably some of the staff gets an eye. So sharp your prisoners that right that's right that's right the tear that's right and where each prisoner is fine to start with the breaking in jail is. That's right and then the run of the drilling this year and go home at night and sleep before we go the gun was not right. That's what usually occurs if one individual runs the jail and he hands down all fines and disciplinary matter how long you think it's been since you have a kangaroo court here and you're not in jail.

Well I think I don't think it goes back to many years that we've had one right here in this county. I know it occurs in other counties you have to fight it personally when you took office. Well our big problem to begin with was taking all the money out of the inmates hands. Previously they were permitted to have money in their possession. When you take away their money when they don't have too much to gamble with or for one man and I will ask that Chief you mentioned that your department was building or was going to soon occupy the city prison. Would you tell us something about prudence of the particular institution. Well I hear I may sound a little better but anything we have other than what we've been using for a good many years would be a vast improvement. We have a we have a new building under construction at the present time which we hope to do within the next eight to 10 months. That building while Howard was all out of the police

operations and all our civil courts within our city that will include of course the the jail on the top floor of this building. And with that we will have a modern jail that we feel will be too bad for these prisoners to be put into it will be what we feel is a secure jail but at the same time they will have adequate quarters. We will be able to segregate these prisoners into six or eight classifications depending on what type of criminal we are. All right now you have really been appropriate through this thing. Well we just recently had a Monday issue up and it was a defeated again I think for the third month you did have a jail and they're not ready for any jail I guess but we certainly. What's the best way to get the conservative preachers and ministers down Sunday.

Dinner with you would be the best. Well let's do that I'd like to make a comment that's a good question and I wish I knew the answer. For example very recently a professional organization in this community became very much concerned about the manner in which we were handling prisoners because we didn't provide orange juice for the for breakfast. Very sincerely. But they took no exception whatever to the fact that we had hardened criminals along with sex perverts first offenders and everyone else in their shoulder to shoulder but they want to use one for breakfast. How can you handle people like that well maybe we shouldn't. Juice is down to jail and Jerusha. How can we list the interests of the public. There were newspaper crusade this last campaign we ran had the backing of both newspapers that we have here. But still it lost and it lost. CAMP It was very well run. I thought it was. What do you think the reasons were.

Well it it's hard to say. I think it weighed in on ahead of time a way to campaign differently for a new institution. It's hard to determine this time is what the problem was that oh now I have a farmers and people who are conscious of higher taxes. Well I think probably an increase in taxes had something to do with it all or it was clearly presented that it was a very small increase in the tax rate over a long period of time. I remember one community up north of us got a bond issue. They said that they would look with me was three males on my. Reach here for three years with a city work our combined County Jail combined jail farm and everything thrown together. And I have a feeling that in three years they've got a 24 hour bond issue when you think that might work this time. Well it's worth the drive and I often hear and she flipped.

The reason the public does not want a better Jr and a better city prisoner lock up is that they fear that the prisoner has it coming for them doesn't deserve any more than he's getting and that we shouldn't have good housing good housing a lot out of the ordinary had no prisoners. Now what do you think you are as prevalent in your community. Do you think that idea very widespread when you think about it sure. I think that's prevalent here in this community as well as any other one. Our and our institution our inmates are not serving time they haven't been convicted yet and in some cases they will go to a jury trial and be released and not guilty. They're foreign. Do you think they should be given as humane treatment as possible and we attempt to do that.

What do you feel that the public the prison. Lockups good accommodations and good care because well within the city we find that usually groups are divided into two extremes. Either they feel that the prisoner deserves no consideration whatever or they feel that he should be given every consideration and slapped lightly on the wrist and turned loose. They seem to be divided into extremes. But we're concerned of course primarily with the extreme that believes he deserves no consideration whatsoever and I think that we should make every attempt to get the public to realize that regardless of the fact that that man may have committed a crime he is still a human being and certainly we've got a long ways away from the Dark Ages in which those people were thrown into dungeons and forgotten about. We're concerned with for example a first offender some youngster if you put a lot of heart.

We know that many of the very institutions they had were or something of that sort. So certainly these people who feel at the. Very first. Remember when you organize prisoner Aid Society which would be a very good outfit would come around to making calls the night around 11:00 or 12:00 o'clock to see if they could be of help to a newly admitted prisoner in the

city prison or lockup do you think that would be a good idea. Cause some responsible person I don't mean a meddling person I mean want to represent a responsible organization for help to the prisoners would that be a good idea. I think that might be a good idea yes. The words of this person might get him in touch your way next morning with counsel of the necessary might get in touch with the employer the next morning to save the job. That's right that's the experience that you've been reporting to me. Do we have in this community a prison raid society no we didn't. I was already for the program as Dr. Walter reckless author and a nationally know authority in the field of Criminology Dr. wreckless. As you have a ALREADY HEARD OF BAD jail as humans are logical Garton But this bad or logical Garton can be turned in to a very constructive place for human beings. We have the know

how to build and operate better jails which will avoid all these Terribles illogical conditions you have just heard about. But the problem is getting this know how into the right hands into the hands of the sheriff his deputies and jailers. The problem of getting this information into the hands of proper local authorities is a public problem. It's a problem of citizens. It's a problem of county administrators. The jail for many many years has been the forgotten institution and it's now high time that we as citizens we as members of social agencies we as jail administrators we as county supervisors and commissioners can all get our heads together and join together and try to bring the American jail out of its Donald. Evans now we can call a part of the National jail Association

a national jail association is made up of many progressive persons and they will be most happy to give you and share with you the information they possess. The U.S. Bureau of Prisons operates a very fine jail inspection program and you can call upon them and their agents to come and help you. They even have developed correspondence courses for jailers of the U.S. Bureau of Prisons and it's federal inspection jail program has regional Institutes for the training of jailers. Much can be done. We only have to go to the Commonwealth of Virginia to see what miraculous changes can be made in the jails workhouses and lockups of the state with state aid and with local citizen interest and participation. Now the ingredients of a good jail are first of all examination of the inmates a commoner admitted and then proper screening. And that leads to the proper separation and segregation of different types of offenders

young from old sick from well this problem from that problem. We need good sanitation and that can be done in the jail in good food supply. We need ample work projects and activity projects so that people will employ their time properly and constructively. We need some counselling service and we know how to provide that. We need functional buildings in which programs can actually be carried on for constructive use and we need good staff of trained persons persons who are career minded to operate the jails and to have the day in and day out contact with prisoners and this can be done within service training we know how to do this. But the jail is the forgotten institution. Citizens have forgotten and looked out for other drives and other social movements. Now someone has got to get interested in the jail. This is your job and you can carry the jail to a greater development than almost any other institution. At the present

time. You have been listening to fly jails fail unfinished business was put in a spy station w OSA and cooperation with the school of social administration of Ohio State University under a grant from the Educational Television and Radio Center. This program is distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters. Last sponsor speaking this is the tape network.