A conversation with...; Carlo Maria Giulini, part one

A conversation with Carlos Mamani Giulini This is another in a continuing series of programs each of which offers the listeners a rare opportunity to hear an eminent musician informally discussing his own career and expressing his thoughts about a variety of topics related to the art of music. The regular participants in these discussions are Aaron Parsons professor and chairman of the department of theory and composition of Northwestern University's School of Music and program annotated with as you call it was in the orchestra. And George Stone program director for Zenith radio Corp. Sirius music station WEAA FM in Chicago. Mr. Parsons and Mr. Stone have as their guest on today's program the Distinguished Talent conducted in Carlow. Do we need now here is Georgetown. In the recent supplement to the 5th edition of the authoritative Grove's dictionary of music and musicians. Harold de Rosenthal writes There is little doubt that Giuliani must rank as the finest Italian opera conductor of the day in the concert hall he is no less successful. His warm romantic Brahms

is crystal clear Mozart and Haydn and exciting interpretations of the Moderns leave no doubt that he is one of the outstanding musicians of today. Carlo Maria Giulini has returned to Chicago for the fifth time as guest conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. And the qualities of which Mr. Rosenthal speaks have been manifest in his performances of Haydn and Mozart. A moving realisation of killer Binny's C minor Requiem. Romantic music. And a modern work for strings by Mr. Giuliani's compatriot trusty. Americans have had ample opportunity to become familiar with Mr. Giuliani's music making Thanks to numerous recordings. But when this program is over we think that we and you. Will know a great deal more about the conductor himself. Joining me in conversation with Carlo Mario Giulini is Aaron

Parsons. Mr. Giuliani there I'm very pleased to have both of you with us and to do anybody I welcome you especially to this program. This is your fifth time in Chicago. You came about 1955 I believe at the invitation of Fritz Reiner who was then conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Except is he if you didn't invite me Bess and I come here three weeks in this for it was the first contact music record that that had to be due dates and that it is not as I get to go it was a good good experience for me and you know the introduction that Mr. Stone read emphasize the operatic. Conducting operatic experience that you've had perhaps a little more than the symphonic but I believe you began your career as a symphony conductor in Italy. Yeah in radio perhaps.

Yes because my betrothed to conduct and I played in the Sixth Symphony. OK still might get a little room at resting with that and then I started to conduct and I wasn't to put out the class. But after going I started to conduct in the room immediately after that. Brooke and I started to convince here if you are in concert form and then I moved to Milano in your estimate and from that I went to Scotland and I stuck to that lead to the kind of thought that you want to do. When about 1951 52 52. One gets the impression Aaron mentioned a moment ago that in 1955 you made your American debut from some biographical material that I have read I get the impression that 55 was a rather important year for you because

also was that not the first year at which you appeared in Britain where you have since enjoyed tremendous success in festival. You know I'm going to face the company and I prepared to find stuff to perform in a festival. That performs for parents on a company a group in order to move for the best. But the performance wasn't getting the best of a company what it was in that same year. Yes yes yes yes. I wonder if we could look back before you actually began professional conducting and think the training the studies that you had leading up to this you attended these scientists the seediness Academy. Enrollment as this is a music student. Yes yes my instruments.

Many of the instruments was Viola. Of course I started to first died in. But then I did the kids in my time in the you know and I'm in the same time I started to school composition. I mean I see you're not perfect. It means a lot of money and going to London and composition of ghosts and the on going until distinct that got together. But my instrument and which of us are the occasion which they played you know Gates and that there's a bust of you. Did you come from a particularly musical family. Was your father a musician. She asked severely. But a good music attendant but she'd never threated you just like all the good at the time like all the children in us any Texan who dresses her own wonders.

Had you always an interest in music a great interest in music. Yes yes when I was very very that looked exactly as did you but you began with piano lessons probably no no no no I've been wondering about it and finally venue musically I was very very stiff I say yes and I asked for divide and I didn't know excites lots of ideas but because it was an after the lesson is mostly legs and an ass could divide and my thoughts are given me if I didn't like it. But they take it there take it very seriously and Barletta because I thought an ability is but the name and my family's from that if I'm a celebrity gather their own businesses and to most of us they're invalid just for business folk to yesterday is in D.C. I was born but I wanted only one yet than being given back to note the Teddy and I said How old were you when you went to the conservatory.

I thought that because I start the fest in no it's early in the time it's an instant and then but then when I was 15 I went to Google and there's going to conservative but it was again. Was it there you had your first opportunities to conduct. No not the only room yes. Yes but I don't say that I didn't start it immediately to going to because I thought that my greatest in this thing was to get in. OK. Most of us in my great esteem and they must add that when I made that it was 18 I found that the competition for one seat was supposed to create this musicus of expression that they say this is a good it's good for us to go in winning a place in New York and you know and that place was as if the oldest millions in U.S. history. Yes. Now that's interesting you know Frederick Starr who was the second conductor and I know the symphony orchestra was the oldest And so what he believed. Yes he

was he was in the U.S. You studied composition. Yes. That sense acedia Did you have in mind being a composer or were you there was it in performance. No no I stood to completion very very very soon as I get it there and like drift do great teachers and wonderful divided of us putting sheep in that sort of composition was teeny with us. They had a very good teacher a very deep and very bad to be surveyors and but and of course we had what Allah said to us of the scene. I can I can give you their genius but they can give you the meter to be a good composer. Then this is my job too. But then what do we do. Only God can know. But he did he said he did but I mean that I stood had no early sense think important to

say because you can position yourself than the president but the didn't say not to get Don't let us drill us and that was Dean when you studied composition Yes. Was it the complications the complexities rather of music. In the 20s and 30s. That perhaps directed you away from composition. No no no no. I think only not to go say I was really ready as I said I played in the case that we bet a lot of modern music of course and in this time of the day experience from the from the last about the good that was good for us and and the generation we lived in a very exciting musical experience because. But in. It

is mind was used to produce a new musical experience new for peacetime of course deny it all its completion I wrote music and did this style of music a moment but that was not my music you know it was the music that I fared around me in and I certainly did believe that I had nothing nothing confident to say and perhaps my nature of going and that's a definite end to the glade to think that he could compose it. That's an interesting point because not everyone has been wise enough to realize the facility itself is not enough. There has to be something to say. You studied also. Yes.

In Syria now this is a town of discrimination or in some of these all of them some music of course and it was very very interesting. Yes I did indeed I did although because I played in the orchestra I did the chamber music and I also had the opportunity to do this conduct of course which was not to really conduct the grossest was the did music a lot of music in there they made to get in their case they say young and go to least and she was in Sienna last year and she mentioned it and she said that student this is a beautiful musical atmosphere and this done so and of course it was very close to it because there was a marvelous man a great personality. And I conducted and I stuck to it. Wasn't he especially interested in advancing the instrumental music of Italian composers.

I'm searching a lot as opposed to OP. Didn't he do a great deal to help compile years of instrumental works. Yes yes but it was a very very open man for everything you know and you had not understood in this I mean he had very much and also his colleague the composer you know to tell you composers hiim he was a man beat the very very sad as you you know he looked very very sad. And it was a great song and I do want to get this it didn't do it but upskilling it as something to compose it was a good thing to do but the city Memphis man what about Molinari. Minority vote the boasted the pediment conduct of them but your play of gets to the biggest day window on then I knew him. I played and to him very very very well and then I was he said in the

most in the very very good conducting. I should say. A great. Great trainer from est.. He's a big fish that he had this capacity to. Do great good seed and energy. Perhaps not. So they get it fixed as they get things done that you know perhaps it was in the fantasy verse not so high as he's supposed to do work that caused him. Did he work in his conduct and did he work with school or did he kind of the same memory that you

know we associate with Toscanini who knows one another you know. And that obviously. Maestro Giulini you find genuine doctrinal school. Yes but this doesn't this is not it's an important think is to try to good music and we don't go doesn't it. Apparently it does in some quarters that because you know one of the things people always observe is is the score there not so much that they're concerned that it is there but that they take the note of the fact that this war is not conducted in Tosca I mean these case it was a matter of absolute necessity because he simply couldn't see it. Yes but just in the 30s and there this is not the reason he had to have somebody who couldn't do what he did and. He was an artist was very angry but there somebody said these

because he said no if they want us in the last years he couldn't see him. But he's memory of us. Get me this is that it was a true phenomenon. Yes. He goes yes yes yes absolutely. Do you visualize. Do you have a mental picture as it were a photograph score before you. I'm just curious about this because of something that was said on one of these programs previously. You know I you know when I conduct I don't see I think in the music I I don't I don't like to see if it's in. Conscience or shit concentration on the music yes I don't I don't see no not the page but the song. Oh there you go. Just respect your sister there.

Yes the music comes from but it's not their problem. See this and think you know has not succeeded in the series. It's a complete picture. How do you go about preparing a score that you're going to start introducing new work. We'll take the chassis can show to number four for string orchestra or any work for that matter how do you go about. Preparing yourself getting ready to bring that to say first rehearsal with the orchestra. This. You mean for more than a vocal engine in general engine. Do. You see the summer I go on because my it's my agent me my man experience I see that. One of the more I said I need time for study. And now I think. Study is not enough and if I need time for me to meditation

thing. Because you know I see that. Especially for the greater good things. You don't get that enough deep. Because those courses you know they're right to sit in on the music yours is on the notes and also the dynamic duty to do things. Just an indication. Often very often very very approximative that. This indication. If you are normal to sit in this girl. You know that eventually after school. The important point. Is. What's nice behind these in these in this is make this an appearance this is not the reason why they go live with you mean that this is

where I say you asked to me and dance with experience and I see that I need time for a drink from the source that I feed this work like I had to. You know and then I know what I have to do in this moment. In the because the picture of this composition. It's in my blood. You know and then did X enough to focus to the contest between my beach and the contest of the community and I know what they have to do. I don't say what the what they do is today but I think that is so that this can be different that they think in this movement and then that UPS into the essay I hope I would change if it takes honestly thinking Desmonte says this is what I wanted to ask how you use the word meditation.

Through this process do you acquire new insights into works you possibly have performed many many times. Oh yes of course it is so much a constant green you know all this you know this is the magic of to music. This is right. For the musician was for me for the sense of not only a concert but the second I get excited and you know because before you know her sort of dismissed the idea of the sound it is all this new. In every everybody dying for me is too good to her so its a great emotion. Like this under this new heel its impossible to get used to this you know because the music that it damned it is sound. Get the boredom in the air. The same thing is in new experiences and then dismissed city. It is simply what do the music live for.

Indices by also for interpret. It's no never you can say this now. I get this composition because next day. You can. You have to hope to get something and then you have the problem of convene that mystery to the orchestra. Absolutely and you will realize what the mental image of the song that you have it. So I can see how this would be if it was an appalling experience each time. Yes all this time it was capture that it brings to mind another question. I have here almost Maestro during these recordings in our library and it's an extensive one. But one wonders with this attitude of constant building acquiring new insights into the music.

How does a conductor feel. About. Our performance. Really because any recording simply is that one given performance. Do you look back upon certain recordings and feel that you have moved far beyond what you did at that time. Do you think of them simply as a record of a performance this was how I saw the work and for that reason it is perfectly valid for the time it represents. Then yes if you are speaking very soon the scene said yes. Generally I dont like to at least made it a good general. And I do it because soon. But ups. Did it it isn't because who do you reckon it is because I have. Three Sons. And I think that the

life of interpreted is absolute one minute after the interpret it's finished to do its job. He's out. He's forgotten it and I think that perhaps redirect once almost to my three songs we'll have a little of my life then I will let me know here. And there because what they did in Lancaster music. For Adkins because this. Debris thing of the people that are in the hall the contact between the people into the instruments and is this is life. And is it in the record are very important of course and I'm happy to do it. Done excellent and I really do like it. But yes. You say you said it right. Generally when I do then I bet on that I quit I try to do.

Our lead and record when I think that in this moment I am ripe to do this really prepared to do this work. And but of course one minute after you did this that I go to you listen to and do can I could change this I can do this better and say yes but this little never finished you know never you never you know you can't be needed because our verses should be finished with music in the moment and there will be no change no interest no no variety is essential to every performance except in this experience Bruno Valter felt the same way but he too and I think that now you mention your PS.. It's not just your son's. Home you're leaving this well I guess it is an important thing that the artists of today are able to leave a faithful representation sonically speaking of what they did cause. All of us one day will no longer be here.

And the giants of the past we know from what we read of them how wonderful it would be to be able to hear what they did. And this is why I think one of the reasons I think the recordings are important and of course they are important for another reason recordings gave us in this country the opportunity to know part of my journey. Long before he came to the United States and in this sense it's important because it lets you go all over the world before actually you. Physically have to have traveled there. Yes. I think except at the foot of course it's been made my thinking but of course it is but what do you want to say no to this. This chronicle which is very very important for a thousand reasons as you said yes but they didn't then. But to

say take the place of a live performer because the sound of surviving is what's happened with the book on the things. What is the breeder for the clinic and the public who see and did have the same body think this is in there you know. But the simplicity to get no end there is an atmosphere. About a live performance which just can never be captured by anything. No there's not because they're usually somebody's super charged sort of yes and this certainly has been apparent in your concerts here. I was. Noticing that I too did the Caribbean me. That you silently mouthed every word of the entire mass. With with the chorus.

I don't know I don't know what they do when they conductor but I think when they do. And music rises. Of course not because my voice is what I think it is you know the conductors voice. And no but. I sing with them because. You know. In the local music it's. A. Very very important because otherwise why a composer shows text he's eight years it takes because he likes these words and deeds. It is explained this piece of music of feeling through these books and. Then put in Jason the prince's initiative very very important not only for Anderson do it but because he's very close to it to musical expression. And then this is where I live.

We. Just sing is they sing and they try to break it down because singing is a severe beating. They need to be. Well it seemed to me that it would be as you were doing it. And I'm I've never songs but I've been up there in the chorus. It would have been very easy for me to follow because it was so telegraphed by you too. It seemed to make it easy I'm sure there's nothing easy about the great deal of preparation I've gone into. The work of the chorus is the cause was mine and we see the beauty of the bird that got us in the really master plan. Very good. You're listening to our conversation with Carlo Giulini Parsons and George don't we paused 10 seconds more station identification.