Seeds of discontent; Episode 20 of 26

This is the 20th in a series of programs entitled seeds of discontent presenting the program tonight as Harvard Smith Jr. assistant professor in the School of Social Work Wayne State University Professor Smith. The world of the 20th century is replete with instances and symptoms of revolutionary strivings on the part of mankind. All dynasties have tumbled and new political coalitions and power clique assumed ascendancy for a while only to be replaced by other regimes supposedly designed with the intent of making life a little better for those who have been left behind in the sharing of goods and services. The Russian world of the czars and the established order of Japan China France Germany and others have undergone striking changes. Latin America is now in the throes of change. The same is true for Africa and Asia. One of the most striking and yet common features about what has occurred on the world singing and the tearing away of the old order was the role of the university students are the intelligentsia. They were in the vanguard of movements that demanded

change. They formulated issues and brought what had been lying dormant for many years into the open for their publics to respond and react to most of their early revolutionary machinery and organization was a brain thrust of these university students are intelligentsia. Until the 1960s the story was different in America. There was nothing resembling an intelligentsia. Our activists student population men of letters referred to American students as docile lambs the quiet generation and conformist. Since in 1906 However American universities and colleges have been the center of issues dissent and a rising level of discontent among young people both black and white picket lines sit ins bus ins and other forms of demonstrations and civil disobedience. The million during the height of the civil rights movement had its genesis on college campuses throughout the land. The rising chorus of protest against the war in Vietnam. But Selective

Service draft. Received its major impetus from student demonstrations and protests in the hallowed halls of Ivey are no longer silent. And there is anger restlessness and confrontation with us stablished authority. Students from Berkeley the University of Michigan San Francisco State Harvard and many other major schools in the east and the West North and South have assumed an increased activist and protest oriented role and both local national and international affairs. Wayne State University here in Detroit has also seen an increased level of protest and dissent on tonight's program. We shall present the concerned feelings and voices of three student activists who have had some kind of confrontation with Wayne State University during the past year and who by their own words have many gripes with the established order as if they did exist in our society today. The three students are R. Johnson editor of the Wayne State University student

newspaper the southland. Chuck Larson who recently resigned as the chairman of the student faculty Council the student governing body of Wayne State University and Lonnie Pete the chairman of the emerging Association of Black students on a one state university campus are intent in presenting the students is not for the SOA purpose of presenting facts. The purpose is not to examine whether or not there is a basis in fact for what they are saying. What is important is their perception and feeling about the environment around them. It is basically on this level that action for better or for worse is spawn and is on this basis that we may be able to understand the roots and totality of their discontent. Our program opens with comments by the students regarding their version of the recent conflict and confrontation with the university. Well in the past two years A.J. We had some confrontation with the university. I'd like for each of you to tell us a bit about. What

that confrontation. It was about what were some of the issues involved. How do you feel university like it started with you. Our croquet is as we sit here talking Byron here going to the university attorneys meeting right now with the dean of students and some other university officials to discuss what to do about the problem my problem is you know me and the paper the south and they're talking about such things assume closing down the people all together as illiterate as dealing with a white thing. So you were closed down. Well basically because they don't like what we're doing. They don't like the kind of newspaper where we're trying to put out we're trying to create a student newspaper at Wayne State which is has a relevancy to.

To the needs and the problems of the students at Wayne it also has a relevancy to this society around the newspaper which can can bring the issues the real issues of American society to the students and make them realize that they have decisions to make you know they can escape making decisions make them realize they have to think about certain things make them realize they have alternatives. This is this is basically what we're trying to do the university doesn't want this the university wants to see you know an actual student newspaper that reported you know which team is retiring and who died and what new building is going up. That's. So we're having problems. What about the problem of sense. Now. Powell has his major Camelot. Well you know they don't they don't you know there used to be four IQ and they don't anymore it sends a copy you know I won't stand for it. Up to now they haven't

they haven't tried to close the paper down. They have in the past that they've they've censored whole issues in the past university but you know it's the whole free speech thing and so they're trying to make an illusion of free speech but actually they're they're really curtailing the people in the background you know through structural and mechanical methods you know they're screwing us financially and everything doing everything they can to try to render us as and effective as possible to the extent of trying to start up another student newspaper which they didn't which which is which failed. All right now we're trying to start up with a metropolitan student newspaper for the whole Detroit area which our paper which our weekly paper which we distribute all the campuses in the trade area and universities trying to stop this to try and stop any kind of any kind of progress they're not making any effort at all toward tore down. Letting the paper become independent of the university right now the people are

really tied to the universities put it only at the whim of the president. It's really and is an archaic fiscal fiscal relationship between a people University and University is making no steps to change this at all. Chuck you during the past year. Had a running battle with the university a number of years I can recall having seen some of the. Some of the counties in the local newspapers before they went on business I wonder if you could go into some of those mayors and also tell us a little bit about. Why recent times to the front. He probably didn't hear much about me really. Even though I was president like for two years now. The reason that you probably would've is that I live probably most other people university had a good deal naive faith in the ministration thought they were basically good guys like talking to the thought that if we could work together that

the weight of our ideas would then surely you know bring us to the truth and that we would operate together in this kind of naive or idealistic manner I did that for a year as treasurer and for a year almost a year as chairman last year before I got re-elected this year. I found out towards the end of that nativities that that wasn't exactly what was happening. I found that out by myself Shockey kind of unease like having the vice president of student affairs you know get involved in manipulating and lying to me just on numerous occasions you catching him in those double talking lines understanding what kind of guy he was and how he was starting to operate and then right towards the end of that last year in the spring we found a couple things out about the universe that really shocked us. He despite the fact that for three years they've been saying that they weren't above keeping security files and students files about the political activities in the finals about whether homosexuals or not. Then we discovered those files we have a minor sitting on the 11th floor and we asked the vice president they were there and he said no. We said we knew they were there because we had inside information. So we took him over there we found him.

And the president that time said that those files didn't exist you know they weren't there when he said he found them he says he was surprised and didn't know what we found out afterwards the president knew those files were there. We found out from good sources who had him deal with those files. If I look at the guy he was he was like the rest of it he was given a story about a week after that we found that the university at some time had cameras in laboratories and we discovered that and then covered it as a cover care was a laboratory to take pictures of a lot of homosexuals or people they thought might be involved in home sexual activity of the way they were using that was even more ludicrous they were using it to get you know confessions from people and then they were going to take those confessions to court which is probably legally three cuts on bases that we study in some fundamental understanding the university just to experience not at this point a logical understanding logical mistake he came later and maybe we're going to at some other point reason I resigned was numerous reasons I was I knew this. First of all it became increasingly apparent is to go was totally powerless the city government has no structural power in the university and as most student governments across the country you need to make

recommendations. Some stimulus don't even do that seems to go as planned dances were at least one step above the absurd we can recommend policies that have absolutely situational power. And when our consumers as they often aren't ethical to the consumer the ministration there's no chance that they're going to be accepted in fact there's hardly any chance it would be considered that because I resigned with the reasons I resigned said read written rather than 1000 major policy statements the president keeps lengthy letters involving policy recommendations. It's one of the circumstance the president never answered back. It's been about six months and that demonstrates to me at least how powerless that organization is they totally refuse even to answer the letters it means possible for the cooperation obviously to take place in that situation but also in the administration. In my estimation tends to be a fairly devious crew and you know that they're doing it behind behind doors. Johnson's paper discovered just two or three or four days ago how they were setting a policy about having security police at organizational meetings and how disagreeably they told to see if what would they would send in the organization meetings we would see guys with guns

and Johnson's paper uncovered done you know plotting to set right into policy just between two administrator the student ever being involved. That's indicative and I pointed that out to the student government when I resigned last Thursday and then we also read some things down about some of the other manipulations involved in such as when they knew that I might resign someone of the fact that members who didn't want to serve and yes I've seen resign get a call from the vice president told me to be there you know told me to vote in favor of me resigning and the guy said I don't want to serve the guy so you be the vice president is be there and so the guy was there and he voted to accept my resignation. But again you students can't even you know the students are powerless but they can't even play their own part of this game without the ministers having to put their fingers in it without them trying to line people up and trying to manipulate the situation. Well almost became intolerable situation for me. Became clear to me that I wasn't serving students I won the souvenir mechanism. So often it's in government a course of action that I thought would try to make them slightly more powerful. Student Government tends to get people by fairly selective process through probably only three or four what you call radical people. The rest of them are as naive as I was never so long ago

and they just can't accept those kinds of things they're rejecting the proposal and in fact the members of course rejected the proposal for other reasons I think the students that need it most the students except three or four of them except the proposal so they rejected my proposal for making stronger had no alternative but to me to resign or resigned and is chairman and from the student government and myself and those people who have some sympathy with what we're trying to do or trying to organize a student union maybe we get that later also we try to organize a student union to give students the kind of voice for these to get what we think the sinew we think. The Voice and universe we think of the money. Recently your organization sponsored. What was called a black symposium. Prior to the had a number of. Critical statements had been made about the previous symposium that had been developed by the university in charge of it. Representativeness of the causes and the concerns of. Rest and urban city. Aside from this.

I'd like you to explain any particular difficulties that you've had this far in organizing and the reasons more for your confrontation in the last three weeks. I think that. It's quite evident historically speaking that an institution such as Wayne State. Is more or less a tool or a segment of the white power structure. And we realize it before but I think because of the complacency of the black students and because of their psychological conditioning where they thought that they could possibly at obtaining some type of educational processes resources and expertise attempt to pseudo assimilate into the white power structure they were more or less willing to let a lot of policies and procedures that the institution itself utilized go and challenge. But there has definitely been an awareness.

When black students are throughout the country that were no longer willing to sit back and to allow certain policies and procedures to go unchallenged. So a group of us got together and formally an organization owns dissociation of black students on wings campus. Now we're probably very biased and probably very prejudiced because we're concerned with the plight of the black students and relationship to the plight of the black community which surrounds Waynes campus. So we think that it is our responsibility to the black community first of all to utilize our resources and expertise and to channel these resources and expertise to the black community. We also feel as though it's a responsibility of and institutions such as Wayne State to open up its doors and to serve the community where it is geographically located. I guess it's two things to decide is the geographical location and also the economic thing. Because the black people

within the state of Michigan within the city pay taxes. And since when is the institution that is supported by the tax power we feel is that it is very necessary that Wayne do certain things to alleviate certain conditions that do exist within our community. Are we going to undertake various programs who are initiating these programs now. What is going to be a Curriculum Study. Program where we are going to actually study various courses as they are being taught. Study the attitudes of the instructor. Study the type of text that he uses the type of assignment so on and so forth. And we want to determine if it is relevant to the actual contributions that black people have made in this particular course and also if it is relevant at all to be taught to black students by naturalists to deal with the sociology courses are historical courses things along a particular line. And it's quite evident that there are certain instructors who teach one way

who have been conditioned and who still potential way to a very high feeling of white supremacy or white racism in the course of that they teach art for example about three weeks ago. It came up before the English department whether or not they should teach nigger literature. And it was a tie vote. And the chairman of the department wrote it now because she said it would be racism in reverse. You know which is kind of indicative of the way so many instructors feel. So we're going to deal with this on one level and then we have some complaints from individual students who actually show that there has been some real prejudice directed against them solely because they are black. And so we're going to undertake this and deal with this on this particular level. Now Wayne State also is deficient in some course that we think ought to be taught. They don't teach any African language. They teach a Arabic it to written type of Arabic This is the only thing

close and have African language they teach. And it seems to me you know like Africa is a pretty large country. And it it's a come to be a very powerful country or countries within a country and I can understand. While in institutions such as Wayne was trying to do certain things are doesn't have the African languages taught. So we're going to demand that certain Afro languages be taught and we have recommendations for the people who are qualified to teach these languages. And so we will confront university with this along with a couple of other proposals. We think they are very necessary in dealing with institution as it does exist. But we feel as though the institution must be changed if it's going to do anything so for relevancy its concern to the black students involved see to the black community. And this is our responsibility as you Association of Black students. What would you say has been a response of any version to you up to this point.

Well openly you know like universities welcomes us open arms because they said it you know this is really can really be a meaningful organization and we would much rather have you recognize you know like a bar ground you know so they can surveil us and see what we're going to do. But you know our point is that we have been conditioned long enough by the rules of the game that we know why certain people acts in ways a certain time. So we're not going let us all of them affect our activities. They have been receptive to a point thus for. Because I don't think they are really convinced. US uncertainty and our dedication to the black community. It's been an age old fallacy within black people that you don't jeopardize your position and you don't jeopardize your future. You know you only say certain things at a certain point and you back down because maybe a scholarship can be taken away or maybe you might be kicked out of school or maybe you might get a D or E in class. Well we as black students have reached a point where we don't care about this anymore because our original priorities now are to our

community. So consequently the university I think is going to change its image of us because they think they will might possibly be a social organization or maybe just really plain so they will pacify us to a certain extent to see exactly who are we coming from. Like I say like right now we're coming from a real strong revolutionary thing because the whole institution itself must be changed as it exists as I mentioned before when is very indicative of the white power structure. So I'm assuming within the next few weeks as we start to make into Manso university that the university will more or less change is image of us and they want Smilers too much more because you see like we're not playing and we're dead serious. The worst there is he has already had some tasty pair of glasses I think when they had a symposium in a typical university. The perspective of black people in the city and they're going to come up with a symposium for black people that talks about black people and deals the problems of black people. Of course no black person ever was involved in planning it. The very thing they didn't only get with people in the black community when they wanted them to

speak and I had no conception of really one of the paternalism that they were exhibiting. They just planned the blacks imposing with absolute no black people there and said This is what black people are concerned about you know and these are the people as people of a community where the black students you want he was involved in that one I think very rightly got to stirred about that issue of a picket line around the symposium what happened last fall and other black people and John Conyers and the other people you know many on wouldn't cross that picket line into the deal with the black students so the university had to hold up the whole thing with good old Jim and William standing around waiting until they can make a deal and finally the black students and I'm going to participants in university can some sort of agreement that they've already had a taste of what the black students can do in the close on that symposium. That's it was it was going nowhere and will but people said it was going go on I want to you can look at your own situation and take a kind of a national look. Certainly you know Berkeley exploded

and even got as far east as Hallam hall from. Harvard. I wonder if we can just talk a bit about you know what is happening in university in America. You know university people in the past have been looked at as. You know the fraternity crowd. You know cultish and all that kind of thing and suddenly there is real tension real confrontation and and and and challenge to to the authority of the university. I want to we can just look at this and in terms of a kind of national movement if you will or a developing kind of thing the national level. Students students in America. Are gradually coming to realize and I think this is going to take another 10 years or so. But people such as Chuck Larson seem to gradually begin to realize that they constitute a church a group

an interest of yours. I see you know pluralistic society in much the same way. Are some of the same ways. It's just analogous but black people are trying to the black leadership are trying to make make the black people realize that they are you know they are just like anybody else. They are a different group you know they are different group with with specific problems. And in that specific things have to be done they have to work as a group so all these problems will students are coming to the same realization that they are there specific group they have specific problems and this is a pluralistic society and they have to act as you know for themselves as students if they're going to if they're going to act for their own interests not students still have interest in you know education and as you may say if nothing else what's happening not only at Wanat all across the country and you see this when we talk with students across the country students are becoming a you know disillusioned with this

artificial mechanism which which isn't really going to be in Diaspora something more meaningful and that's all across the country students are talking about student unions and the sort of things you know meaningful ways of giving students the power to deal with the society and the and the interest groups which are trying to mold them. Can we compare the crew to me that ever since like 1870 when you know when it when this chart tells started building up the business complex near the end of our 1910 a cuppa Titian died America forever and hasn't competition since then for the world worse in which in which the military industrial complex of the gether protected the lead World War Two when finally the Korean War the end of the enemy's war on we can see that the military industrial complex is coming closer together. The government and high industries are working so much closer together. I suspect it like you're pretty certain that's with a major power within a society like those of the people who make the basic decisions about the society and those of the people who were giving the guidelines for the society that values those conflicts that exactly could universities merely emulate that

industrial military complex as we call it it is merely just a product that is merely just socializing tool that is of that complex. That the U.S. university not to produce to use you know students being defined rather narrowly as those people you know who are searching for truth you have open minds. But the inverse has been used as a training ground for technicians and people to learn how to add columns of figures and they don't become accountants when they learn how to put certain radicals together and also they become physicist or chemist you know and that's what they're trained for not trying to fight and even trying to think how they will apply their own their use of the chemistry guys and trained to think about whether or not it's making a point that is just totally unconcerned about social issues he's only concerned about the chemistry and he's trying to be so so to Titian takes on a very bizarre character I suppose a character attack for quite some time. But neverless bizarre when you give like the reasons are supposed to exist with you except like the political claptrap you know about university being the place of reason please where people come together offer dissenting points of view and it is no longer that place is purely a training ground for what we call technicians and most the students here are technicians. And it

has become you know just just the place where they keep down the set them a little bit the scent here is manipulated to set them in you know look at what's happened with in student government where a possible vehicle for dissent you see even if you know ministries manipulating shiftiness Well this is happening is that so real dissent doesn't exist in a compass a real opportunity I think you know for people to to exist to explore different ideas doesn't exist. I'm just another example of briefly is that is that if it's going to be a place where people come to look at all of our society and reevaluated there ought to be some freedom some autonomy from from civil authorities. Yes like our police department our security police department you know which looks much more formidable than it will place because they get these hard helmets and you walk around you know in a very hard man you know they're the ones who are helping bust students and marijuana in the bus students run kinds of other other um. Experiments at the Trent tried to be invented and I would defend that experimentation on that occasional basis and say that the students are had a chance to experiment in these different areas so they can evaluated our society because

everything to be the dynamism of the society. And let me just say there has to be done as we've given the change is only a dynamism in society's going to have to come from some group of people that tells NCA it has been able to evaluate the values and suggest changes. Well this isn't happening there because of the you know the inability to deceptive because the system is coming down so hard because the police are making you follow the straight and narrow line because educational solution only offer certain kinds of courses and doesn't allow you to experiment the way you'd want to. So this was happening to the university and the students are reacting to that and they're reacting to the authority they're reacting to the lack of freedom. You know I think as artists of the city become more sophisticated over the generations and as I understand it they have you know the intelligence to get to make decisions about their own lives I mean they're having them tell us decide who they want to read and when they want to read them what they want to get out of them. And that does not that he was in a building with a university and that's what the people are reacting to is happening across the country people at the top Cisco blew up took over university for a day. People in Madison Wisconsin were put in jail like 60 people were put rather in hospitals because they were having demonstration university

couldn't take it and call the police down the police really pizza heads over people broke and beat back the police because university could stand the scent all across the country helping people become much more radical. It couldn't just have ideas that come together. University brings the police down the beats and heads of people learns like black evolution for generations you know learns what it means to them to faces as one might call honky cuffing a luminosity peanut head like Uttam used tear gas on people becoming much more militant was more radical meekly much more intolerant of what's happening around us. In our presentation thus far certain key words and phrases have been mentioned quite consistently. Power and the power to determine one's life relevancy and manipulation and taking these words and phrases to their final conclusion. It seems apparent that a university is but a symbol of what they feel is wrong. There is basically a commentary on what lies beyond the university. It is a questioning of the overwhelming features of authority in the contemporary world. There is a fear of the impersonal

forces that define their existence. And there is anger and resentment because as yet there is no clear evidence to them at least that they can determine and influence the course of history as it applies to their own personal lives which is at least a part of the American dream. Next week we will continue our conversation with these students by taking a more in-depth look at the causes of their discontent. And by listening to their comments on what lies ahead for all of us. You have just heard Harvard Smith Jr. assistant professor in the School of Social Work Wayne State University. Seeds of discontent is engineered by David Pierce and produced by Dave Lewis for Wayne State University Radio. This program was distributed by the national educational radio network.