A Federal Case; 5

For the next half hour you're going to get to listen to a man called right path and telling it like it is to have been in Congress for over 40 years as a representative from the 1st District of Texas. Mr. Pacman is a populist and proud to be one. In his book that means working for the people especially the little people. And if you don't think he's sincere listen to the number of times he talks about what's good for the people. It's a theme that runs through everything he has to say. Now Wright Patman is not one of your young sophisticated East Coast liberal members of Congress. He's not particularly fashionable in that way. News men don't crowd around him in the halls of Congress. He doesn't use a complicated rhetoric. He doesn't advocate something that's called a new politics approach. He's the oldest sort of politician of all he believes in that all get us Bergh address cliche about all of the people by the people for the people. Indeed he's full of cliches in the way he harkens back to the Bible. He sounds like a Baptist minister. He sounds more like Lyndon Johnson than Johnson. He

loves homilies and Mr. Patman is easily misunderstood as a simpleton and old man who sees the world as black and white. This congressman has been talking about money for a long time. He's chairman of the House Banking and Finance Committee and chairman of the Joint Economic Committee. He really understands a lot about how our economy works and what's wrong with it. He says big business in this country especially the big banks are very dangerous because they have too much power when they want something they have enough money to twist the arms of Congress to get it right. Papuans arm is one of the few that hasn't been twisted inflation for him is simply too much money chasing too few goods. Sounds easy doesn't it. Mr Pacman doesn't blame any of the usual things like welfare payments. He blames the big banks and a government that goes along with them. He makes those big banks sound like the devil himself. Now he may not tell you the whole story about what's wrong with the

economy but he is going to tell you one very important part that doesn't get talked about enough. And if he wasn't fashionable before he should be after you listen to him now. What's it like to have been in Congress so long as some of the change has been so. Seem like seven years. That's great and I've been working in the public interest where I have know where the business connection. I've heard you call the populous. Yes all right. We have come from. Talk first of all about about the pattern of big business in this country because it's obviously businesses are becoming bigger all the time and it seems to be almost an irreversible trend and it seems like you know uncertain kind of competition not only competition but job opportunities. It's closing the doors of opportunity to people of all ages in this country. Every time there's a merger a lot of good people

knowledgeable people are put out of a job. What do you do to stop. Well I've been doing everything I can. But you see big business of course they have their own lobbies the big big banking lobby is that it is the worst lobby we have in a nation used to it was often said that you could just as well not fight a million dollars you can whip a million dollars. But the people can do it. And one of these days they'll become aware of what's happening to us if we don't do something to stop this big banking lobby. We're going to pay interest rates like we're paying in South America. 15 to 30 percent up to 50 percent interest. The bankers often for about up to us say banking rates are not high here compared to South America but those are not only on economic rates. They will destroy our nation. That's the reason they have

these dictatorships down their case. And these revolutions of course people just won't take those things without limit of time. And here the big banking lobby has too much influence. They have more power and I'm saying this deliberately. After much consideration and much experience the big banking lobby has more power in Washington than all. 535 members of the House and Senate they are calling the shots and are running the show so far is getting done what they want done. They seldom move if they lose it's only a temporary loss. They come back they have ways of making members believe that it's in their interests and the best interest of the country from their standpoint to vote with them. And it's always on something that saw it a day. So I wanted more money more profits

picking the pocket pockets of the poor people and put the money into the hands of the rich. That's what they're doing all the time you never hear of the big bankers lobby being for old age pensions or for veteran's pensions or welfare benefits or anything like that they never mention that except they oppose it always. They want something that is so it is something that is in the way of money and profits. Would you like to see them suddenly get smaller or would you like to see them develop a conch I would like for the members of Congress to ignore them and do what's right toward them and the rest of the people. But keeping in mind the public interest at all times this country can't survive with the interest rates like they have them now and we're heading toward a depression. A serious a bad depression one of make the Hoover Depression look like a team of fire or a Sunday school

picnic on Sunday afternoon in comparison. It's going to be the worst of any depression ever happened in the history of the world. If we don't do something to roll these interest rates back to reasonable rates we cannot endure as a nation we will have to run and going to a dictatorship or some other form of government because it cannot survive this way. We've got to recognize that we've got to realize. Now there are lots of ways to stop inflation inflation can be stopped. It's been floating around. We're trying to stop inflation. How do you do that. Well there are lots of ways of doing it but one sure way is to drain off you know inflation usually is too much money chasing too few goods. Well now in the end we're making it harder to produce. They cut and down on production and first thing you know we have black markets again like we had during World War 2 but the way to stop inflation

is to have excess profits taxes taxes that will siphon off the excess money as any economy that's causing the inflation siphon it off but taxes and pay it on the national debt. Then you serve two purposes. You stop inflation make it easier on the people then you pay the money on national debt and reduce the interest cost on a debt that people have to pay. So we have for people two ways. That's the ultimate. That's a last resort but you can always do it if you want to you can stop inflation if it becomes ruinous and bad to that extent. But if you have a depression and you begin to slide down the mountain toward the pression there's no no no or proven way to stop a depression once it starts. We have tried everything but we can stop inflation. So right now what we need to do is to get the bankers lobby away from

Washington out of Washington and look at this thing from the standpoint of all the people not from the standpoint of just a big banking lobby who are interested in conglomerates and mergers and a few people owning the country. This thing is serious. People must become aware of this awful thing conspiracy now that banks now are trying to get permission and they're getting permission from the regulatory agencies to buy non related businesses having all of these powers. They shouldn't be allowed to be in other businesses. But they're going into other businesses anyway. Now then during their the depression the Hoover depression you know big companies notified their stock holders we're not going to pay dividends this year. We want to save that money and use that money to buy up the distressed properties of our competitors. See they could see this depression coming on

now and then they can probably see another depression coming on and they're going to hold this money and get these powers and then all of the pressure to be a wonderful thing for the big banks where they could own the entire country in a very short length of time that way. You think they would fight it they're not fighting it yet. They're doing everything to make a depression possible. Like high interest rates. It's terrible it's just against conscience. People should and shouldn't sit by and take it. They should raise a disturbance with their people who represent them in Congress. You know therefore people are every person a citizen of the United States has a right to contact here in Washington. Number one he should contact his local member of Congress his representative in the United States House of Representatives and then he should contact his two United States senators and his president. All four of those people were elected in the election process that ever set us

and has taken some interesting man and therefore it's alright for him to contact these four and let them know what he thinks about what's going on now and the poor folks ought to be given a chance. The low income groups ought to be given a chance. And it's we shouldn't be toting to the words of opportunity for all young people in this country which we're doing so when the alarm rates and mergers and the banks buying up all the businesses of the country. Well we've tried anti-trust laws but we've been unsuccessful they have not work sufficiently and adequate to do the job. There are too many ways. You see when a regulatory agency a complaint is filed it takes years you know investigate and see whether or not they're going to file a suit if you like to reorganize the regulatory agency or certainly what regulatory agencies are not effective.

How how would you know right now let me tell you how it works. You see there have this complaint finally a five minute take weeks and months and some time years before they ever come to trial. Went to court and then after stride made a decision against him. But then it take a long time to file a motion for a new trial. Then the appeal to the high court that takes months and years. Then the if they go through the same thing in its appeal to the higher court to the Supreme Court and during that time it takes from 10 to 20 years before a decision is made. And all during that time these concerns are moving around different entities and different forms of getting away from the sued and the time the case is over don't mean a thing. And they've got what they want the regulatory agencies have not proven to be effective. What about the Federal Reserve Board nowadays. Well it's bad. You know for 14 years during Mr. Roosevelt Mr. Truman's time we kept long term interest rates two and a half percent and then never want to but it. And that meant

that you could get home loans for four and when I had 5 percent you know people who build homes have homes and gave perspired and then but now if you have interest rates so that Wall Street bankers just take everything and there's no incentive for you to get out and get a building contract or anything else and make money out of it why they take it all on. So there's not much incentive best destroying incentive. The interest rate during that was 14 years with a good Federal Reserve Board. It helped all the people I don't know what we coulda won that war World War 2 if we hadn't come to the news recently. That's the only time in history that a country had a major war and didn't have a major depression in that it's all because we didn't spend it all in the interest of the bankers. And we had some money we could do some

things with and we took care of the boy who saved our country at the same time we took care of the country. Now if we had those high interest rates we could have done that you think the high interest rate now days are connected in any bad way with Wynona in a most want would be in any other war the bankers have charge and the big banking lobby has charge like you to talk about stupid stupid loans. Well now that would a fine thing but as soon as that was started the bankers came as saying we want more money more money. And finally they got the government to agree on 7 percent guaranteed. The government guaranteeing this and giving them 7 percent now than they were a 3 percent bonus on top of that and they persuaded Congress to give it to 20 ideas can do it cheaper. Well did you know my dear lady that the Congress has put the demand of pastors in a bad fix. Now you will have one place to go to put your money for a checking account. That's demand a

pause that's a commercial banks. They have no competition and that they have a USA only place to go and the Congress passed a law because when we want to have a guarantee of bank deposits the banks that ask will cost us a lot of money and we got to fix it so that the we don't have any interest on demand a pause a second can and of course Congress voted to say that the van apart said no when it was paid him that favor the billions of dollars a year from that their year right then but now then they have over 200 billion dollars of money the people that are paying no interest on it all they should have some social responsibility by reason of that. And certainly they should take care of student loans at 7 percent when the money is costing them nothing but a bank that was certainly there

in other words as too much irresponsible predatory greed there going on in this country and I large part of it is sponsored by the big banking having people understand that well because they just let it do all they want to get along with bankers. They want to get they want to have banking business they want to be friends of bankers. Man in the street they don't understand that they are no they don't they haven't studied it and they hear it the banker say well there's nothing there that you know I know a case where the government is actually taken I pointed money over here and paid for over 50 billion dollars in bonds through the open market committee in the New York Federal Reserve Bank and they have got there was 50 billion dollars in bonds and instead of having a burning of bonds like a church is when they pay off their debts they keep their own bonds and still charge and restore. And I've been paid for want with government money. Now can you figure that out. And of course the

main reason I don't know too much about that. You can get Congress to pass a law to order to Federal Reserve they have never been over it and they handle hundreds of billions of dollars a year and no audit. Now that don't make any kind of sense common book of ours. Neither can I but it's never been never audited. Why because the banking lobby are just so powerful that they persuade members of Congress as you're good. I think it's terrible that the people don't rise up and raise sand about this. People think that the inflation of all the problems of the country are because sometimes because we're paying too much wealthier they well sometimes that's an excuse that they have as an excuse and if they don't they but not everyone have got the things. Whenever you tell them that this fifty billion dollars. Now how can anybody justify paying debts twice. Three times

how can we ever get out of debt as a nation if we let the Federal Reserve Bank of New York take care money and pay for our month keep the bonds and continue to get interest on two or three billion dollars a year. How will we ever get out of that. Yet whenever you tell people that or Congress wouldn't let that happen. But Congresses won't do it. What how much support do I get on things like they don't want to take my side. It might hurt a Missy in politics. Oh and this at the end there's another ways they want to get along with the bankers now bear this man's afraid take issue with a banker because he's always doing business with him. And furthermore he wants a credit rating. You know the banks fix the credit ratings and they have too many advantages they have too many too much. They want an influence and power and strength. But other people don't and they're taking advantage of it.

The banking lobby probably hates you. Well I'm sure they do. I'm sure I've coarseness moment because like me they have a very small number of banks on my side. And over the years but they have very little influence compared to the big banking lobby. See they have the know they have the money served to their control and use in a way they want to. If a member gets like this from apartment from 1st District of Texas where they can spend money to make people believe the most terrible congressman a pair of a tried time and time again. Well fortunately people always take my side and they trust me that there are 3 4 elections you see they get there and everybody moves doesn't work. It had worked ok Wright Patman as a great all crusader and a good guy and a populist. But you know he hasn't stayed

in Congress for 40 years through blind luck. He's a politician don't worry and he understands the system. Listen to the senior congressman from Texas talk about the seniority system and the oil depletion allowance. We feel about the seniority system or seniority system is proven to be about the only system that we know will work. Now there are other systems that have been advocated but it's hard to improve on the man who has been there the longest not being chairman of the Committee For instance if his party isn't you know more valuable than ever. And now there might be disadvantages to that. Same time there disadvantages anything if you elect a chairman every time that you like Speaker of the house you have the worst logrolling that you've ever had in America. You couldn't handle all those log rolling political campaigns at one time you know and if you have a certain system

and of course the committees really are the ones that operate the committee anyway the chairman must abide by a majority vote of a committee so they're not in danger. About the 27 percent oil depletion. It's all I ask for and I'm concerned because we need oil in this country we've got to have. We don't want the energy gap to come up in a way we haven't got enough energy that it contributes to this problem. If there's too much you don't want to be refused. I don't know where I am. I've been convinced over the years it's fair to do it to keep the production of oil which will be cheaper you know by having more oil and. But if it's wrong I'd be in favor of doing what's right. If it should be reduced reduce it should be raised raise it I don't know what the facts are but the Ways Means paste on it and Ways and Means Committee and their committee says they want to reduce 20 percent Well if that's if it's right to do that why let it be done. I'm not I just want the right thing done. But I don't see it.

First I thought of 27 I felt going I think it's proven over the years to be good for the country. Right Badman's philosophy his beliefs become clearer when you hear him talking about people all the people in the country and some special ones like Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon and the secretary of the Treasury David Kennedy finally and depressingly Mr. potman is not very optimistic about the future. You would substitute the phrase like big government instead of big business. Well in the West we have big government now because any government that's operating like we are is necessarily a big government. But as long as the people have control. Other government why they can change it around. That's the reason I am against members of the House of Representatives having a longer term than two years. It should always be that way. Then if there's a bad trend in government or the government doing the wrong thing the

people every two years can change that Tran by electing a new House of Representatives because the House has the most power. Only certain there are certain deals only can be introduced in the house like revenue and appropriations. Things like that. So the people have charge of the purse strings by having a two year election the House of Representatives and so I hope that's never changed for that reason. Did you have any problems with when Johnson was president on monetary matters I felt like Mr Johnson didn't do as much as he could have done against the Federal Reserve when the Federal Reserve defied him. As December 6th 1965 they did you know they went down to Johnson City the board for the purpose of explaining to Mr. Johnson why they felt like they ought to raise rates. He had already let them know that he didn't want the interest rates raised it be against the country and he believed that he was right. But they came down there instead of coming there to discuss it with and they came

there Ted and that they'd already done it. And of course he was expressed displeasure about everything after this point but he didn't do anything further I felt he should have gone to the mat with my tent and said you're not race or race. I'm President United States are elected by our people. Not a one we would have been elected to any office and it could be an odd but I'm elected by the people of the United States. And you're not going to raise a horse race now Truman did that one time. President Truman he called them in when they were going to raise rates and he got them in his office he called them names you know he that was a very tenet about the kind of names you call people sometime and he said you're not going to do it in the number of births that it could have been done and for to that extent I felt like Mr. Johnson didn't do as much but same time I have to say this that whenever you compare Mr. Johnson's record with any other president that don't mean anything you have to compare it with all presidents before him.

He did more than all presidents on certain things. Education and things that have the welfare of our people. Then when you compare his record with as with all presidents do you think that this administration the next administration is we're going to a very different direction. Well it looks like that they're just going in the special interest people in here. In other words the maken the goose the guardian of the shell corn. And you know that's not very good. And making the fox you know go into the henhouse and the White House. I've heard people say that the Nixon administration is going to be in deep trouble in 1772 not so much because of the war is because of inflation and because of their bought of Kerry policies or because of the fact that they're not they're not controlling anything in the interest of any right and I think they are in trouble not only 72 but 1970 and I think they should do something about these major issues if they are not trying to raise any money

and from people that have excess purchasing power that would really help solve the question of inflation if they did and I don't see any real evidence of I'm trying to get through the tax reform bill. Now Mr. Nixon has promised to get through tax reform. And he's even calling this his bail. But his secretary treasurer with our fight that he's bringing people in here who normally are not for the little man and who are not normally not for what you'd call a plain people of the country. Now you take best Fela Kuti do you think that he is shedding many tears about her or about the hardships of people when he's getting more money from the banking part of his life. You see there where he's only paid $60000 a year but the government and I think in this particular case is too much.

But he's paid more than that but the bank that he worked for he hasn't divorced himself from the banking industry. And it's terrible to have a man like that you know that got everything on the other side and supposed to represent the public interest. Hell we have to have a lower interest rate with people like that especially when they're in a particular spot or an island and that's what this next I'm to bring in and he's bringing in people like that and the special interest people who have an axe to grind. And if you put people in places you have a personal axe to grind and I think they all think about that more than they will the public acts to. That's what I'm for a kid and he does have a personal My certainly rusty axe to grind you know. So you know the Bible says that you cannot serve two masters. I just wonder if this is an exception. The banks pay a moment and the government pays him while he is secretary of the Treasury. If you could envision five years from now a pretty good economy how would it

look. Well right now there is Arab life from my standpoint you know it's a concentration of not only banking but business and you know locking directorates between him and a very few people running the country and the number is fewer and fewer every day and every year and five years I don't know what'll happen. This is been a federal case. Your correspondent. Program was distributed by the national educational radio network.