1965 National Association of Educational Broadcasters Convention; Building a Local ETV Program Schedule

OK. Testing one two three for testing one two three four have a testing one two three four minutes go OK this back and forth. I'm with the president by not standing I'm a little burger and I'm a systems manager for program development operations the WTU in Tampa which is to say that I find that I've gotten uncomfortably far away from the production and programming end where most of us where many of us started. If you excuse me just going to do anything hard like their morning. Yeah. I'm going to ask at the panel who is here this morning with me to introduce themselves before I do. Let me just keynote this session briefly and let me also introduce to you a member here at the table who says you will not be speaking though I hope as with you join in with questions and with comments as we go along. And that is Tom Merrick the committee on TV National Catholic Education Association who is

recorder for the session. We're here to talk about building a local programming schedule. We're calling this morning was talking about keynoting this particular conference on educational broadcasting and the national purpose in this this particular session is the census is relating to educational broadcasting to the local purpose. Some years ago some five years ago I had the opportunity to participate in a paddle on very much of this same topic at a net meeting. At that time we were chiefly concerned with the primmer of literally how to build a community schedule. We were concerned with the nuts and bolts as it were a state of the art has advanced considerably since then. The gentleman who like me on either side are all long time professionals in the business of relating a station to its community and reflecting the needs and the interests of the community. And in discussing

how we were going to structure this thing this morning we felt that. The best thing that we could do with that was to ask each other as it were some of the problems which are common to all of us and relate them to each to our individual problems you'll find in a moment that each of them represents a very different kind of a station. We have in our stations a great variety and audience. And our primary purpose for which we individually were founded in our financing sources in our administrative organizations and in our social and the social environments of which we reflect in which we serve. But there are questions there are problems in building a schedule which the State of the art in the state of the artist. Now as established are pretty common to all of us. And I think that after some 10 or 12 years of educational broadcasting we're beginning to find some pretty broad overall general solutions to these problems which are

again common to all of us. So what I hope will come out of the session will be for these gentlemen's philosophy as well as a practical matter of how to approach the problem of building a schedule in the room with us today are a good many other professionals in the field and I hope that you all will feel perfectly free to address both questions and comments to any member of the panel at any time. I would much prefer that this is not so much a panel discussion as a dialogue on the philosophy and the practice of relating a station to the community in terms of its programme schedule. The only area that I would hope would definitely establish that we will leave out this one it will be the problem of ITV or in the school broadcasting we are concerned with the general community programming rather than our problems in the ITV area. Since this in a sense is already established and established pattern for each of us

but generally I'm going to ask you all then if you will to do introduce yourselves and give us some idea of the background of your particular station. On my right Bill Oxley is going to talk to you first. Thank you and good morning. Also as he feels on comfortably. That apart from programming and production with his new position I feel sometimes that I am on comfortably second close to programming in production and the job I have I AM program director for the Southwest Texas Educational Television Council which is KLR and TV. It's a community operated station that is it is run by a board of trustees not of a college or of a university or of a school system but a separate board of trustees composed of educators and businessmen in the Central Texas area. We are fortunate I think in the aspect that first we are a

multi-city operation we do produce and air programs from two cities Austin and San Antonio which are about 80 miles apart. I transmitters between them and covers the cities and in the one city in Austin we are located our studios are located on a university campus. The University of Texas. This is fortunate in that we have all the personnel and resources available to us that the university can provide and at the same time being a community station we can but we feel we can broaden our scope of programming just a little bit. In the evening hours the studios that we broadcast from in San Antonio are not university oriented and are run strictly by the council. Our air time is Eight thirty a.m. to 11 or midnight on the day the 8:30 to 3:30 time is as you might guess. ITV instructional primarily

and 3:30 to 11:00 or midnight depending on the sign off time is community oriented. Hold asked that we present any special unique things about our coverage area and population. I think that one of the major things in our area is the number of Spanish speaking people in the city of San Antonio for example is almost 50 percent Spanish speaking population and 50 percent non-Spanish be confabulation Austin is not quite that great a percentage but the there is a heavily heavy area Spanish speaking population. Secondly we have two or three towns that have a German base Rumple's in Seguin are the two notable ones but they are other ethnic background definitely is German and a great number of the people still speak the German tongue. Our financial setup is very

we get the money from the schools for our instructional program we get money from the community for community service programs. We do have some contracts and also that help bring in the finances I think that's basically if you go to any good. Now Rand Paul you can't stand it no more with you and we're going to go by stand up and I'm like Joe. Let me just say one thing if you give me it isn't a good thing the door flies open he's going to take us off rapidly. My name's Ron Paul making the Brasco mad tell you a story is one I use a lot in a basket right now we have to tell stories on the basket believing that once upon a time there were two young men who went to Eton College in England. And they were wonderful scholars and the only problem was they just couldn't stand the other one to get one award the other get the other where they were right on through school this way. And finally by the time they were seen as a be hard to tell really which one was a higher student or better scholar distil problem was that they still couldn't stand each other and they went out into the world. One of them became the greatest bishop of the Church of

England and the other one the game the greatest admiral a great British Navy about 40 years later one day the old bishop and all of his roles and fattened beads and crosses and everything looking very pompous was standing at a train station in London. He looked across the way and he saw the old admiral standing there with all of his medals in brocade nothing looking very important. The old bishop said to himself I'll get him this time. So he walked over to the admiral and tapped him on the shoulder and he said pardon me stationmaster but when's the next train to Brighton. Well lemme look down he said twenty minutes Madame Bonanni camel drilling and lap condition. Then we have to have a lot of speeches and it's been speeches in Nebraska they got us really where we are because we started out with probably less than we start out with less of everything than anybody else in the country does anyway right from beginning we had the most conservative history that has ever been known to man practically for a long time we had Channel 12 and Laken on very low power like 35 miles all the way. You know we kept selling the idea of educational

television to Nebraskans in an unprecedented move we were able to get seven channels cleared with the FCC four as five USAn to five these and to use across the state of Nebraska. We're building a statewide network now that even as we were it's 95 percent of the people currently with Channel 12 and Channel 3 that we have on the air now that covers 70 percent of all the brass bands that it takes for other channels across the state to get the other 30 percent Nobbles cattle out there because it's a lot more money with the cattle and as a people. But as our philosophy those 30 percent are across the probably more important than I certainly as important as the people that live in the cities that we're currently serving. So we're a university based station. My production center is owned by the University of Nebraska but we have a responsibility and on these other channels except for a child Well the the five of us are all by a state commission present as program director of the for the commission. They pay me forty nine percent less so in the end University master

pays me 51 percent. And we did it that way so that I could maintain certain benefits at the university. I guess in this group today I represent the university based station which is now becoming a statewide service. What's has changed they will talk about that later. Good bye thanks very much Jack Shafer from Denver the morning briefing background of the OK army which stands for knowledge for the Rocky Mountain area a great number of people have tried to get Denver Public Schools and Families group of opportunities school and those college but it doesn't mean the licensee of course is the Denver public school. We are programming approximately forty eight point five percent in school instructional with fifty one point five community at this time. Currently we started out June 30 in 1956 we were programming 10 hours a week. We are currently programming about 40 to roughly 17 hours of community local

productions. Denver is is a unique area of courses. It's in at the foothills of the Rocky Mountain area where cable into Casper Wyoming I don't know a great deal about these people. They're Cowboys also. And I guess they have wooden sidewalks and horse and buggies like we do. We're also cable in the Leadville which is just the other side of the Continental Divide this is the highest incorporated city or at least it was the last time I checked in the United States it's ten thousand two hundred feet above sea level. We have currently in Denver an hour. We're kind of in a depression business we indicates that one out of every 500 individuals declare bankruptcy and real estate is very bad particularly in the housing from anywhere from fifteen thousand twenty five thousand dollars. Of course the Martin Company and incoming employees had a great deal of do with this. This initially started the problem. And in the community. We had the good

fortune of conducting in an audience survey last year in fact we did too. We didn't want to November and one in April in which we made 18 approximately 18000 telephone calls per survey. And if someone indicated that he was watching Channel 6 at that time we follow this up with a questionnaire and we found out a little bit more about our regular viewers questionnaire of course pertain to regular viewers who watched almost 50 percent of our regular viewers watch K.R. made TV three hours or more a week which we think is exceptionally good. To give you an idea of our our people endeavors 63 percent of our viewing audience these are our regular viewers again are over 40 years of age. This is a little bit higher than the national average is you know it runs approximately 25 to 35. Seventy nine percent of our regular viewers are white collar and professional etc.. 81 percent have had some college on a to a doctorate and 49 percent of their

viewers have an annual income of 8000 or above. This is pretty much our community situation today. We give you another idea of Denver and the people. Vendor Business Week also indicates that we are a year behind and in a clothing style that's why I'm sitting today and. Yesterday. That's OK and that was our last item number. Chris Donaldson from St. Paul does that microphone. Yeah it sure does. We make a bounce bounce we've got a kind of a double course because not all speak loudly are OK for having all that electronic stuff carry a big stick. My name is Chris Gunness and I'm the assistant general manager and program director for the Twin City area educational television Corp. which operates two stations in the Twin

Cities same of Minneapolis we're very careful about that. You can see a channel 2 and more recently our second station ECI. He handles 17 of them on the air now for about six months. We operate them simultaneously doing different programs. We also provide a large number of our program via private relay network to the Duluth area each day which is a separate organization with its own staff management his own board of trustees of which uses a great many of our programs in the severe Wisconsin area. Meanwhile we are establishing additional station in west central Minnesota which will cover a very large area of scarcely a very populated area about 150 miles west of Minneapolis and St. Paul which will be owned by our organization and jointly licensed to our organization and a local organization. In addition our station was those of many but I see represented in our audience today participating in the Midwestern

Educational Television Network developing interconnected educational television. We're in this phase of the brass Iowa Minnesota Wisconsin to a surprising degree. The northern peninsula of Michigan and also more recently who are surprised rather than the state of Illinois. We also exchange programs in that region. We are one of two really operating networks the other day and. I have been with Katie CATV for most of the time since it began operation a little over eight years ago. Prior to that I was fortunate enough to have been on the I was the university staff at that time headed by the Hollywood media war year middle and late 40s of the time the first educationally operated out of the state began operation in the night 50 with apologies to die for. I mention this because I've had a chance to be a little

bit on the fringes of what was said and done by a great many important national educational leaders in the immediate post-war years. I'm talking of course of observations made by representatives and members of the National Education Association very frank who's the American Association of School Administrators the chief state school officers the American Council on Education these and many others formed at that time an organization that now no longer exists because of the need to apparently the neck brace gave evidence and there were many others the Joint Council on Education Television subsequently. And if you remember those of you who made attention to that in those days the talk then was about the need for reservation of television channels to be used for education. And I make this point I think very clear I get into this just a moment later and I'll stop speaking with the backlash over there. Let me make one one point here there is no valid distinction I believe between what some people choose to call Z and

I see and there's five of these in develop this morning. They are one and the same lack of success in a television operation needs Generally I believe that one is not serving education on the underlying. Education may itself be manifested death various ways and I think one of my favorite stories about what education be is and what it needs in the way of service from television educative that it may be best expressed in a story that I happen to hear took place about her years ago. But our organization was attempting to help certain people in the city of Des Moines about 40 miles from Iowa City University in establishing its own educational mom from the avenues they must have on my 54 55. And with a rather naive president the new president the naiad in terms of educational television at our institution and when told by Big O who many of you know the chair of the

board that we should help them in their drive to achieve their own education of one of these in the community the president said but Mr. Howe how do we know that the people of the morning want that every minute of every day. And Mr Hall responded very quickly and rightly by saying they don't we must have. Thank you for this. Thank you very briefly. My own station our station is is a community station. It is in Florida where we have a an audience of resort focused people of small industry. Quite a large rural population and a great bulk of our of our metro area people are retired persons in the St. Petersburg Clearwater area. All of them making for special environmental problems in Florida. Very briefly we have some seven stations. They are not interconnected except that they do

exchange programs through the facilities of an educate state Educational Television Commission and through a rather loosely drawn up network association in the area of cultural programs we are totally dependent upon our community and upon the seven county system school system which we work for are our operating funds. So that my own background is that of a community station and we do not have any formal university Association. We have a new station about to go on the air in our area. Channel 16 of the University of South Florida which has coverage area will be almost exactly the same as ours and should provide an interesting broadcasting dialogue between us I'm sure because we we will be able in that sense to do a double service to our communities. All right gentlemen you

have the background once again let me stress for those of you who come in late that we do hope that you will join into this dialogue as one we have. We see increasingly the requirements which the FCC among others are bringing to the attention of broadcasters to prove that we are matching that community needs and our programming schedules. We had one interesting point raised already this morning that I TV and the TV are indistinguishable. Chris feels and I know that some of you are will question that statement perhaps to a certain extent. I'd like to ask what kind of mechanism you will find as the most efficient first to define community interests and needs. And second do assess the relative importance. I'm sure that with a single channel the most of his control. It's almost impossible for us to do to meet all of the

individual and specialized needs of the community and I think and not only to identify them is important but also to to give some kind of a priority set up. And I'll I'll toss this one I toss it to you believe inside of the Lotus as a starter and gentleman dive in. Well first off I don't believe that there is a mechanism that's most effective I think that what I use to determine where the needs are in the community and what and I'm not speaking at this point of relative importance but just where the needs are. I think the mechanisms are many and varied I think. Studies research studies we just completed a study on Spanish speaking population. And I bring this up because it was a rather large study that our director Mr. shank and our investigator Mr. Malard finished for the office occasion on the on television is an instrument for the continuing education of Spanish speaking

families. This study did nothing but try to determine who the Spanish speaking families were in terms of such simple things as what their attitudes toward education are what kind of they get up in the morning what time are they going to bed at night how much television do they watch and when. I think this kind of thing is important. I think what the other community and civic groups are doing have taken on as projects and responsibilities is very important as a guide to us as to where the needs lie. I think it also in some respects would. Tend to influence our feeling about the relative importance of you have a large civic group working on a problem. Maybe you should think twice before you get in and maybe it's being handled by that group or at least to some degree efficiently. But I don't think that there is any one mechanism I think reports are one community's community project or another and I think that the well that's been our experience that we don't lack for ideas or projects people come to us with ideas and projects all the time what we

lack for is time money and person now to get all the projects done on here. We don't have any trouble finding what the problems are. As to the relative importance that's that's a real problem and I'm going to take the issue because betting on who you talk to or what studies you read relative importance changes on any one particular item. We happen to think that our community the problem of illiteracy ranks very high on the list. We do also in San Antonio as a whole has a large retired population in the city of San Antonio we think that as ours keynote speaker talked about this morning the aging population and the retired population need a service also. And like to extend a little bit on the whole IF I mean regarding community service organizations we have a problem. Course you can't talk about educational television without bringing up problems with financing. We've had great difficulty in the past almost 10 years indicating the people of this is a community station the

licensee of course the Denver public schools but we program of course to suburban areas such as our battle with you know with several We've had great difficulty convincing these people that this is their community station and we've begun a project I think which has a great twofold purpose. Number one we're going to service organizations right now we're starting with the Junior Chamber of Commerce because we feel of this organization is quite aware of issues and problems within their own city or our suburban area. And we're having them investigate what issues or what problems they'd like to present via our station. Now this only knowing makes people aware of the fact that this is the station's services their community or their suburbs but also give us a good insight into some problems that they're having within their community. How many of you have had formal surveys such as when the bill was talking about. I've made a survey of your audience in this in this very formal sense that yours are many.

You haven't Not recently no. We work from the premise that every person is paid at the same we're all paid in time. You may have more money than I do but I have guys time and my time is the most valuable thing that I have and so when I thought philosophical standpoint we figure that you invest the best thing you have your time every time you watch a television program and therefore the station has a very big responsibility to all persons to make that time worth your time. So therefore we think in terms of you know creating primetime out of all time. For instance when I see Bob he's back there and one of the most successful programs we have a right now is something we got from his station. It's called frites TV science. We had never produced a program like that although we are far and many of you are farm areas but. We put that again Sunday afternoon at 5 o'clock against the cartoons and our four aged people said if we can get a thousand kids to join this club and cynical and cost money because it cost 12 cents apiece to send the kids a booklet

they cost a dollar and a half one hundred I think it was for the pins the kids got and they said if we can get a thousand people youngsters register we'll feel like we really made some inroads and help these boys get well at the last count we had seven thousand three hundred sixty five people youngsters would register in the parades. People are going out of business because they don't have enough money to buy the books and the pins as they were prepared to answer. But it is and so we now suddenly our 5 o'clock hour which I never had I don't have any indication what 5 o'clock was like before suddenly is very important to us and we feel like we really are doing something thanks to this acquisition that we got from the Other Education Television Station. Right now at 8:30 on every Friday and this is something wrong looking for underwriting I know and this just came right out of the blue. Our state retail merchants association came up with the idea with our help but they came with the idea that they're the sales people all over the state. You know a good shot in the arm you know to be a better sales person so many people been selling for 25 years and they think you can tell me anything. But they should be

reminded of little things like courtesy and tact and the latest things have been developed in in sales for instance and so we designed a course called preparing you for your promotion. It's designed for the sales people and that figure is the people in this one impression too much we have 2000 people registered but these are just sales people in Lincoln all the Hakani whole these little towns like York Nebraska had a hundred people registered you know. Well I know what that course is really doing a job and we know it's a job because the stores are that one thing this association is paying for it they gave us enough money to produce it well and to hire some be able to hire some people that can act pretty well and come in and act out these vignettes verses and things that we could have done without the money. We also know it's doing well because the store said their sales are going up and now they want to do this right before Christmas which is getting a little commercial and saying to me you know we won't but if we're going to be done in October. So with this present course. But there's an occasional of serving in this case business by TTN and there at 8:30 on Friday mornings never

meant anything to me particularly and now it really has a meaning. You consider their nighttime time and I think most people consider well there are men and women available your biggest audience is available at night. Then I think you have to be very careful about the programs you put in because I think they want to compliment what is already on you don't want to compete for the same audience. I just yanked out our symphony New York Philharmonic Syfy on Thanksgiving night and put it Thanksgiving afternoon because I found out that a commercial station to go in for a lot of trouble a tape the army Symphony for instance one I didn't think was fair to the Omaha Symphony for people to have to make the choice for Leonard Bernstein and what's his name was. But so you want to be of service and write one of the things that well I wanted to about this poem too and it's an old war horse but you need programs like this to give you a shot in the arm to get feedback from people you know cultural programs as far as they are seldom getting the kind of response in return that everybody needs that people going to work on that office and it's letter isn't it.

It's mail it's phone calls and things that really keep people going I think in any organization. We do a program on Monday nights. We do it for money night right straight through the year. The man from the agriculture camps and we can do it during the summer and fall when the women take over. And that's a state services trip where people can call the University station anytime during the year and have questions answered on the air about their water garden problem. We just finished the series is called back and forward. This year we had almost 5000 phone calls over fifteen hundred layers where we know we really help those people in that particular time. We were very careful when we put the program so that it's of most use. So basically I guess we think in terms of trying to make trying to to to create prime time any time during the day and use that valuable time to the best advantage right through the day. Well part of this program. You're talking about route of actually originally what was the first idea. How did it start was it a was it he planned

presentation with by quite by accident. They approached you. The state distributed education people had a course on paper called Creative selling that had gone pretty well as a nighttime high school class for adults. It was a noncredit class that people could take and it's just a natural for TV because you can do a lot with it visually. You can show lots of interesting examples by acting on situations and things and they did come to us on that first and then we went out and talked to the state retail people and they are paying for this and they had well they should because the University of Nebraska prince doesn't have a vested interest in helping sales people the state but the state has a responsibility to all the people of the people will help share in bringing this to the public. They have to share by helping us pay for because we can't afford to do it without their help. So we feel we're justified in letting them pick up the tab on it. And we know that we're doing a good job with them and they're making a lot of friends in the business world by doing it.

The reason I wanted you to bring that out is because I'm I think that when you're talking about a local program schedule one of the things that we should do is to talk about needs what are they and who your audience is and what have you. This is one thing that you look into and then it just similar to what commercial broadcasters do they work up a presentation. This is where they get their sponsors. They go to prospective clients with a formal presentation and layout cards the whole thing is plain. I mean I think we ought to do more of this sort of selling and then if it's that an idea that will appeal to the community you'll get it back and you can do a good job on it with all sorts of promotion because this is this is important in terms of promotion making people aware that something is going to be televised. And let's face it you're competing with the commercial stations for your audience. The problem of poverty is after you know by a

beast to get up there I thought to give back something of Bradley lost. People a while ago you were talking about the mechanisms for determining the educational needs of the community and not one of the other makers mentioned the one infallible mechanism and that's go ask the educator and sell it every one of our community colleges universities to assist with various educational agencies is to organise a very business is determining and serving the education of the venom of what we've got to sell them if I may use the term use of the and then out the other. They will we have a tool to sell the used to do their job better. I want to see others with real hard because I think if there's anything wrong with the look of it and never has been one other remark made here you will go about the financing problems of it because it's a fact that if there is a financing problem in education or that of the state operations it very likely is because we're not

serving it you think. Now it's true I'm sure that the educator may not always know all the needs of the community but you can help to buy the homes and I'm sure there are gauging where we go out and create the need for some of our services. At the same time I think this is something that those of you I notice that there's not too many of these beers there so obviously most of you maybe you know who we are. I do think it would be of interest to you to know that the only reason for having educational television is to serve educate and this is something I think we sometimes get a little too far away from as one critic put it in mastery of an article recently. One of the problems with one particular sector of education of the mother whose name I will not mention that we have that affiliated with them for about five years. Is that they too often drive or do very badly in large order he what the networks do very

well in small corps perhaps we can get off the track. All of us all the time. The thing I'm saying is that in our educational evidence the one thing we must do we have not done well enough is to remain our single soul purpose and that is serving education. You know all these broads kind of believe in the use of shootings and types of things that must be done. He wouldn't take that up because I think this does not necessarily follow. All of us all of your ideas of of the primary function of educational television to the extent that many of us feel that it is is this depends uniquely on the earth. Perhaps the the the for everybody give a station. I know that that our station is not is not concerned entirely with this guy. I must call it the fixed

definition of educational responsibility. We stress more the fact that we are a known commercial station crest rather than any that an educational station present. We have our duty to the needs of formal education but in the areas of have continuing education and a broad community service the educator is not the one who can identify the community's needs. I think a great deal has to be said has to be clarified here also into how broadly we wish to press. Interpret this word education I live in a and a political society such as ours I think information to the people be a just narrative if it is information is education. Do you when you interpret this is education or are you speaking of a more strict continuing formal education. So I do know as I say education has many field types organization

and I think this is probably what it's are all ready to go out there the superintendent of a political information that I think is inverted here and if you in your community probably don't already view superintendents of schools or principals of schools or managing directors of community are you to do that if you happen to be government employees of organizations like the Veteran's Administration for example or the community of or various community agencies welfare even if you will who have certain instructed jobs to do this is that you. Already you have conductors of the managers of community Symphony Orchestra as perhaps you are is your job. If you carefully look at your 5 0 7 3 See the term in a tax exempt status you'll find that your job is you are a Jew. If this is the guide read them and says this is it.

In this sense is this with the educator that you are talking about going to probably know better because a lot of their work with a lot of I don't have a argue with that you know I mean I was I just did not know whether his remark was being restrained. Chris met and finally Chris Chris mentioned that we should be concerned with ITV and my divorce community television and search for what he did. OK I'm sorry to hear that you said that we shouldn't be concerned with trying to copy or compete with commercial. I think what I said was that there is no valid distinction between I know. And I think there should be in one respect primarily right now. I think that's in children's programming I realize that there's going to be a panel discussion on children's programming or part of education is certainly developing taste and and rich in the lives of our children. I think this is a large void and a whole

in most stations as far as programming this is for children's programming. I think we need to be concerned about competing with commercial television programs. The cartoons that are occasionally interrupted by high powered and well planned commercials we're starting to do this now where we're going opposite a children's program in Denver that's been on for about seven years and has a very good audience. But I want to we're going to divorce ITV from this from this block of programming there in our presentation each day. And I don't want any association I don't want the children in our community to associate these programs with a classroom or the teacher where we're going about it with two experimental projects I think one we're taking some outstanding talent I believe in the form of a Galton. Briefly plays five music Wiseman's writes Wrong music etc.. She is a professional television performer. She's running twice a week. We're trying to experiment with taking a professional television performer such as we did with Max Morales and

making an educator if you will for foreign educational television station. Then we're doing another experiment on a Wednesday afternoon. We're taking a teacher who teaches instructional eye TV and school programming during the afternoon. Art and music and we have impressed upon him that we'd like to divorce him self from the classroom from a teaching situation and present community enrichment for children. And this is another experiment that we're going to do and I think this is what we have to do we have to find programming in the form of what's new the affiliate stations in the form of what's new because they have they're presenting information but less formally than ITV is and I think this is what we have to do but their age level is the age. Roughly eight to 12 years of age I want to start doing a 4 5 6 and 7 year old because the four year old when he's four year old he starts. He becomes a free agent he turns the television set on and on himself and he begins to associate ITV with educational television or vice

versa. But he associates entertainment and Richmond programs and develops a taste for commercial television because we're not offering as educational broadcasters anything for the child in this age level and I think we have to do this and I think we have to begin right now. That's all we we all have except the the the fact that and building and building our local programming schedule we keep in mind our basic function of. Leading the public in terms of knowledge and you just mentioned meeting them in terms of public leaving the public in terms of taste to what extent is this a conscious act in building your schedule. Do you feel that there is a responsibility for breaking across television customs for and normal television mores. Is is there a responsibility as you build your schedule of your station actually developing new horizons in the broader Brust as the world the word taste in terms of your own

particular public this is something that you consciously do run. Yes we consciously do it I have a reason for doing it probably more than a lot of people here and that in Nebraska we need a TV worse than they needed in Boston from some standpoint because we have a brand new people. People have never had an opportunity to see a decent play in all their lives youngsters come to the University of Nebraska and they seldom darken the door of University theatre for instance which does some pretty good work. Right now it's doing who's a very Virginia Wolf. Well the kids don't have it in their background to appreciate drama and drama good drama courses one of the best essences of life and they must have it and I have found that people in the Lincoln area know that I've had the benefit of the center culture cultural affairs package of a number of years. These youngsters are coming to college now with a better appreciation because we plot all of this kind of programming through the school systems at all the colleges and there are 12 colleges in our area so even if they are going to watch it sometimes at home they will they watch it in school or for assignments and I think that in

Cultural Affairs at least they are better informed. Then they were I think it's I have two short axioms that control almost every program that I do and that is one is not doing a program is often far superior to doing it. And it depends on what that man in front of the cameras like whether he's with a good television tell him or not. Because if he has any god willing you just don't have anything. And I think that in local programming particularly building a sketch I think you have to be very critical and if it's better not to do the program than have somebody who may really have a wealth of knowledge but just cannot communicate with people. And if he isn't any good on camera I think you have to admit it to yourself and to him and not use him. Look and wait until you get somebody else to do it. What about the public controversy matters of public controversy is the responsibility of the station we're getting into the areas where what we're saying in a sense is that are you building into your program

schedule consciously from a local standpoint at least by the selection of certain areas of of. Leading the public taster of public controversy you are in a sense taking in editorials and in an editorial stance. And is this a function is it a conscious function of building your schedule. It absolutely is as far as we're concerned. We're we're taking topics that commercial television cannot do. And I am speaking of things such as trading stamps were going to do a special on trading stamps the value of trade stamps. We did a special on credit commercials television can't do these kinds of programs because they're cutting off their most Despite the face we're doing a special on the commercialization of Christmas. We're supplementing I think we should supplement commercial TV because with the example of public affairs programs they will give you the unwed mother and the illegitimacy rate they will tell you the number of really committed relinquishment that were made in Denver

or 1965. They won't tell you why and I think this is of a need and I think we should be fulfilling this kind of service. Why were there 600 relinquishment in Denver. As far as illegitimate children how can we how cut this number this is the kind of a program program that I think we should be aware of and we should watch commercial television see what they're doing and what they're not doing and extend and supplement their program. It may have had something to do with the green thing. I think we have a an a and m an opportunity of flexibility of course we've all talked about flexibility to do about what you want to do that will best suit your publics needs in a recent example we had a debate on urban renewal in our area. And you know some people wonder but he also didn't so we had put a program on the air in o'clock at night and then it ran and ran two and a half hours that was we got phone calls from people that they wanted questions answered that long and this was a that was tangible

evidence of using a television facility to really serve the people you're serving. I believe in having open ended programs and getting a response from people and making them a part of what you're doing. Yes I'd like to give you. We haven't seen it lately. While I wait in Nebraska we will never be able to do that we have a very active Nebraska Broadcasters Association who who doesn't agree that Gina Lollobrigida is culture. Yeah and I know there are some films that really are just this can be construed as I don't want to upset the restaurant cancers that much and I hope I would There are so many other things to do that I mean worry about i don't we does far as we're concerned we don't need feature films. We did have the play of the week but that's different because those are the best contemporary

plays that have ever been produced for TV and they are produced honestly they were produced with the author's intent in mind and no superimposition of a sponsor's idea. So if swearing was indigenous they use it and you know how good it was. We thought that was truly an educational experience but feature films for us are out and we are using feature films but with a great deal of restriction on the types of films that we select is the far more overriding feature of the selection rather than the cost of your running film such as Pride and Prejudice Tale of Two Cities. This kind of film we will not either get to you along Gina Lollobrigida or the better rights films we had it was either going to be a large bowl of really the worry of King Henry the Fifth. Would it be all right. I don't see very good anime right. It'll be tough

but are you just going to you ha. Well I would certainly like to run features. I think this is a portion of our schedule and we should be doing the classics as an example but right now I'm more concerned with satiating the needs of our community as far as local ground we just don't have the time in our schedule more than money at this time to do it. But it's something in the future I think we should be doing if you like let me add to that. Clearly I think it is evident to you one of the distinctions that a lot of the DVDs they've brought that that light is but aside from the course but one important fact that I suppose all of us the fact that it is too popular you're in trouble and this is really not a very good reason. In fact it comes right back to the challenge and what I raven which nobody seemed to want to answer that of of the because we're here for the first live. Let me add that with things like a couple of moments ago the engine was made here by one of our. That was well we don't want to you know we don't visualize ourselves as an educational

safe necessary and more like a lot of the Murphys face of Mr. that you might look at your life as you find that you are in the commercial education of the station here in life on a couple of other things. And this is not necessarily argue the view you have no idea how close we are in some of these things. Right. Because I think that means you are in and you people sometimes get that we are in it with the you know the other side of the gun what someone has referred to not too long ago as perhaps the the the baseball of what will someday be American DC that is something else I think entirely. Most of our stations I think have actually staffed by of course most with of the Rs have excellent staff many of them are know that many of you have more you beat by them or in the university to look at all the evil of wide experience in the near field at the same time despite an excellent staff of a rather large and I think I don't think that we

have anyone. It was more about let's see. Working with the kindergarten age child and the people who do this every day. Educational institutes are an advocate of it and certainly I don't that is why I don't think that all there are several former professional musicians or staff and having that record lower that's a supergroup I don't imagine that any of us probably know any more about music. Even for entertainment purposes and the heads of the chairman of music the Bartons in the zone I mean how is the universe of these in our immediate area or for that matter the maestro of the Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra who occasionally hear talk in this war. I have an idea that even though many of us have tastes that are wired that we ourselves as a staff and certainly our individual know nothing more about the cultural meat or the cultural attitudes of our area and

the people who actually deal with this from day to day as part of their own where I live. Urson hooves of U.S. and Arkansas who's from. I think what I'm trying to say in the process here is something that I'm afraid we all believe in myself sometimes lose sight of the really very often we largely programming evil in evolution's ways and begin to think of ourselves as the purveyors to our community of what we feel is good for them. I don't think we usually know what we have as a higher authority but as a coordinator as a gourd as a function I think this is a mistake I think Chris that is that we tend to make as programmers over and over again. It's one of the reasons why I was interested to come back to this topic after some five years because as I say not only has the State of the art changed a lot but it seems to me that since the State of the artist of the profession in the business I

think that there are professions it's quite true that we are both noncommercial and educational stations but we are a broadcasting station. We are not an educational institution per se. We are not a symphony orchestra per se. We are not. The local art museum director per se. We are a broadcaster. I said you agree with me. Oh yeah but we are a broadcaster and therefore therefore the function which we which we have to do exercise as programmers is exactly the function of the selector of those materials. We ensure that the problem if we had endless airtime and endless facilities the problem would be compounded but at some point you still have to make a selection of which and this is the process of building a local TV programme schedule and I see no reason why the programmer is not a professional cannot be a professional and cannot exercise the judgement and must exercise the judgment of which you

are saying it has to be appealed to the higher authorities. I think you have to listen to a higher authority but the judgement has to be exercised by the professional in the broadcasting business and that is the general of the table including yourself. I don't think it can be passed off to anybody else. Sooner or later a selection has to be made and the selection is our responsibility and and it's the responsibility of a professional broadcaster not of a professional educator or professional musician. It's my view that anyone I rather imagine we are going to have to kind of bring this to a close I'm going to ask each of you to make a quick closing thought of them. Good life I guess if I get that. How they are or you will go without life. Then we have everything you

eat. Our view that we bow without desirable really no value but rather believe. You say you know that you are. You are rather bloody road for the last three years we have made you the high level you are you hearing that rating are you guys were still alive and I heard the rain the other day by day.

But the other day that your birthday area over the verse there that is out there. They love their new power. One of the ways we grew there. Oh yeah one of the other thing Jane they're like oh my god I need this wild wild way that they gave rise to a new area and lead the way. You are bang on the way there. Though I agree with Brit knowing the answer but I think we have got Say that again and it's. Unique. Only before there were

vile me. I imagine your behavior that most of our cases this is a matter of cost. But even though your piece I know that you're offering the schools the role and purpose is none the less your obligations to the community have rather than that I realize. As a major school system that you are I should think that if you have the finances to do so and then provide the staff to do so you should operate with one interesting rule that goes way back into radio for the most or the loss of my program. How loud you are and also second to that but only say that one hour drama if you're there all the time. He will soon begin and accept the fact that you are there as opposed to this it will be very bad I think beyond just a very few hours of this as most people even when they're looking for instructional broadly edit the material and whatever happens to be usually find their most frequent homes in those nations which are almost always on the

air. I say our readers much as you and there are a number a number of waves from some of the news services available to all of us now that the key regional networks exchange amongst the NFL for these program services. You're north of the morrow. All these I think were provided really material to make this possible. A few years ago that have been the horrendous thing for Newsday. You know it's hard to believe you've got the money to run these if you like make a supposition on this weekend then. And this is just a guess on my part but I would think that in our affluent society today there is a credible group of people who do not view much nighttime programming during the week and I think that there are groups of people that are meeting attenders if you will and this type that we can reach easier more

easily on the weekend and we could at night especially. We had a question here I'm afraid some of these questions of whether they're quite good are not going to get done we have a question here on what is primetime I think runs for prime time being a total schedule a while ago. We get an awful lot of response late at night and yet we're not we going off as I said between 11 and 12 winning on the night. Maybe this is too early to go off. This is this is another things bothered me. Or maybe the weekend would compensate for this with the people who don't come to us very late. You know why great about weekend programming I think if you can't afford it then our philosophy is to go to Sunday first and do the best job you can with Sunday afternoon. Maybe for only three hours and I think at least where I live there's a good three hours that people really need something else something better than. Well there are a lot of people who won't watch football all the time or whatever's on. I think you have a responsibility to give them a choice and so maybe from 2:00 to 5:30 or something is a good thing. They did well inside and that rather

than Sunday night. Well we have thought now of just staying until 7:00 p.m. and it's been the feeling that the programs that the commercial stations have on are not that bad but they really are very good this year. I mean they're awful. I guess all of them. Something like this is as I thought of was my line then anything other ways yes. Jack do you have coming along and same line of course on the questionnaire. We were concerned about attempting to go on Saturdays and Sundays so we asked the questions of the station or on the air Saturdays and Sundays how many of the weekend programs do you estimate you would personally watch. Forty nine percent indicated they would watch a few of the programs 20 percent we didn't get any response at all so I don't feel in our community were ready to go on Saturdays and Sundays I don't think we have the viewers I don't think there's a need at this time. Also in the survey we found very little difference the number of sets tuned in from

6:30 to 10 o'clock. It varied something like the top was about 40 46 percent at 6:30 it was around 43 percent. At ten o'clock it was around 43 percent so as far as being on in the evening you got just about the number of sets on throughout the evening. This is play a part in what you schedule and when you schedule a mile is that a lot. Dr. Walter Palmer really if you do. Every move along your way here and it is regrettable that you think that all of you. Why this he wouldn't but live right here between the hours of 8 or 45 and even that up from the seat of the vans by our bottom classroom. Too bad it's out of the love we did there. I don't stock shares in any of the questions are going to influence I think we're supposed to dismiss what I love and 30 in it is that I didn't when I be gathering your thoughts if you have a plan like you'd like to make.

Check that you have a couple of announcements. Those of you who are in the session this morning. The opening sessions to a very deep but they're worth pressing again don't forget that a fund raising luncheon at twelve fifteen it was announced this morning there are only 10 tickets left and this may leave may have gone but the judge is hopeful to get more chairs in and it's a it's an important luncheon and those of you who are not in it as we did not hear that at 6 o'clock this evening there will be a special conducted tour of the U.S. I ate in some of these which are in the Old Post Office Building and 12th and something else. They've got to rethink government Pa.. You're asked to use a 12th Street entrance that's from 6:00 to 7:30 and let me call to your attention also the color television and the Japanese American Progress train service programs this evening in the Dover I'm beginning beginning at 8:00 a.m. as I expected. These are important things for the day.

Thank you very much for coming in to those of you who have not filled out a to take part before you go would you do so we are making we're trying to find out exactly what this kind of audience is composed of which will enable us to structure this kind of thing more specifically for the audience that we draw in the future itself would you be sure to fill out a pickguard with your name your station and your position for us before you go and leave my doors to leave. Ladies and gentlemen I think you will make it. A lottery.