Coming of age; Three in a gang

When you join the club why did you join it. Because I went to. The pool ok once. And some some guys grabbed me and they said anyone know. No specs and no news of him. So I said what you talking about. He said Do you know your prejudice on this song. I can stand. Where there were some other. Yeah. So if you join a club. To be protected against them. John I think John is going to be protected. Join the club to fight. This is ban park where the program in the series coming of age about American teenagers today you know in major cities there are three types of delinquent juvenile gangs the criminal gang which is an apprentice group to adult crime. The retreat just gang organized to use narcotics and the conflict gang organized for fighting. This program is made up chiefly of the voices of three boys who are members of an active fighting gang in New York City. At the end of the program Dr. Richard Klauer down authority on gangs gives a brief commentary.

But you're wondering. Whether you can confront you him how many did I hear. Yeah it's not by myself and you know. I want to pops right to cheat just as your first three years were we used weapons. Which years. Usually of a garrison dog and. A knife. And then you know times when bind to study using pieces. Who started using first the older guys. How old were you then fourteen. Anybody been really badly hurt or killed. Around here. There was a case of beer. Somebody get killed. Yeah pretty well publicized. Generally those boys I knew every one of them. Well I was supposed to go to that but you know I had a pigeon cooed. You know when you're raising pigeons that's all you think about is your pictures.

This guy told me let's go dance with the Jesters So I said I can't do it. So I had to go to a branch to feed my birds. Why have my pigeon could pack. So. I went to the Browns. When I came back in the nighttime the next day I got up and it was in the papers. The way the papers told the story they just just wanted. To kill him when they killed the other one got wounded. How many boys jumped into a boy. About 18. Yeah. How come they. Come so many of these are just. Because all of them you know everybody gets to get agreed in them they have to you know everybody wants to hit him at least once a stabbing. Or. Whatever they want to do. Sometimes they even start fights among themselves. You didn't let me you know. It seems to me. Unfair guys jumping to

where everybody can get to him. I would think one of the wounded guys got away and they ran. Well that was the story were there for everyone you know they got time. But I had a guy hires a mine because that was a kick at the time were any of. Us in the narcotics. Maybe one. Because I knew he took it. But it wasn't something that was in that that was that had for me. What about you what he did. Oh I just drank. Whiskey usually narcotics. For. Me. They offered me but you know I was hesitating. You know my grandmother. Told me. Pigeons. Yeah we still keep them. So. My pigeon could. Be. 18. I was just starting out with you know. With this just off the

street. These pigeons I brought in a pet shop. What kind of. Well you train them. You send them out. You know first you keep it about for about two weeks and then you. Maybe two or three and they'll stay around the fly around the pigeon. Did you ever take them a long way away from them and years away with would you take what I took I had a liking Homer. And Big Bird Big white with red eyes pink eyes. I took it for about. Nine blocks to get to a subway station I let it off the platform. When I got back to the day. How long. Two months. How many brothers and sisters do you have. One. She's 19 she's married now. You get along with him since she's married. You didn't get along with him and she's at home.

It was then that. You know she always thought I was. His use was only me because you do this do that. You never thought that I was going you know growing up every day. Getting a little old. Sometimes my family steals things. Thanks the same you know I think I don't know anything about life. I like. It good to talk to my girl tell me not to bring it to the house because I think I might get her pregnant. So tell me this is. Not OK what it's only because I know what I'm doing. And I'm not going to get it because I'm too young to get married and I don't want to be a man no age of 17. I get pregnant because they consider me a man in that sense but yet I'm still a boy. You know. When you think you know. When I reach 21. If you think you get married to this girl.

You are planning on coming up pretty good. I respect that she respects me. What does she want you to do. For a job. I know I work as I've worked before. What kind of career does she want. She doesn't sign. A long as I were. Misusing a word to. Use in these days marriage is not you know all that you know now you know. It's an agreement at the same time. What do you think your biggest problems right now. We got parents and their mothers and mothers pressures as a mom I was always saying. It was hang around with them niggers and spics. Now you know. I wasn't raised that way when I where I was raised it was nothing but colored people. Even the super used to come up and eat my house once and. That's where you raise the who you know who your parents are. Why you find so many clubs are mixed with Spanish in color. There's always those two races

that everybody wants to. Bother. And we never mention any club names. They always mention club names and since we were Spanish in college and we live in this neighborhood I think there were rejection came so they would say we were just you know keep fighting. You have fights at the dances often you know just two times it happens. What kind of dances I was the one with a time here it was a Catholic you know it was a church to you having it in the basement. So they told us they told us. We don't want to collegiate studs and. So they told us you know lower your pants are too high and the guy told me there's no you know but the other guys were with me so what can I tell you what I don't know his name but I mean it was an official of the church. You know it was a gang member. There was a gang of color people the rappers. You know my parents out on you know them for me. So he walked away and then his friend came over

they were trying. To get his friends and my friend I said no I'm here. He said You're Panzers. So I tell them if you don't you won't you know. So he said and he walked outside and picked on this guy named Richie. Here and they call him a suspect. So we got in the fight. There was ten of us but only six of us for the rest of the four rounds. Well let me take them off you know a lot of them because you know. You start the time with you know. I think about. Challenges you know. Off you off your shoes and no cuffs. So they like that their parents were baggy they weren't taping you know that wasn't tapirs they had these big shoes on. Big times you know chest protectors and things like that. So then like the way we dressed but I was just a reason to start a fight.

He said it was one of the fights What was the other one. It was another church. One of those Irish guys they try to rape. The girl in the bathroom. And the girl was with us. So her brother came after the guy my brother hit the guy in the face. Then his boys jumped in and a couple of boys jumped and started flying. There was a costume party and a church and the story kept going. Did you like living in the neighborhood you lived in before. You like living here already like this. No I like this but I notice that the place is kind of rough. A cop hit me once. And I told him if I said it so everybody can hear you just like you can't put his hands in your pocket. And I can't take you know you know. I just got this he's got a reason to tell you the reason where you are taking.

I learned that in school but you can't say that to a cop in these days because he's just lucky. It sounds like the cops three times. Oh well I mean. If I was the capsize I find if I knew as much as the Coptic I tell him to take his. Belt off. And let's fight. I seen a guy do it up here in Amsterdam Avenue and he beat it out when he deck obsolete I can't deny anything about fighting. And you know what the car did more cars came and jumped and then when they got him in the prison they beat they beat a guy. He had to get well to die. They beat him up so much. See. It's just that I can't was so embarrassed from him getting beat up because he thought he knew so much. Garbage All right so he's got to get a lot of responsibilities and he wears a badge and he has a gun. The moment you take that off he's just another man. You go to church you know you go on and about three years I mean I go

sometimes I go off and on. The girls used to drag me they used to make me go off. Well you don't consider yourself religious. I consider myself religious because I believe. But I don't believe in my own way. There's a lot of things about the Catholic religion that I don't like. For instance confessing to another man. When I. Will. He commit sins whether you know it or not you know priest commit sins. And then he has to call confess it to another man. It's not that pleasant to be a priest. It's hard. You should be doing it if you love me. Just when I go to a party. Fights get started at some dances. You'd reckon that depends the neighborhood you live in like I live on the downtown part of this neighborhood. And over there I don't fight it. They just like to enjoy themselves you know dance with the girls. Or they can make it with a girl to try to make it with a girl but up

here all they think is about fighting. I mean once in a while I feel like fighting. But not and again I feel like fighting just one person alone. You mean you want to go and have a fight. Yeah. What is it to the chin that kind of move. Sometimes you know sometimes your family or something. Sometimes you know you don't have a job and you feel that you know no dollar in your pocket. And I get you man. I was. 17. Are you going to be going back to school next fall. No. I quit. I want to work. What kind of a job you want to get. You mean as I get older. Yeah. I mean I don't have any idea what kind of job you want to get right now. I want to get stock boy. You don't have any idea what kind of job you want to get when you're older. You thought about it. You know. How much money. I'd be

satisfied with 70. Never worry about the fact that you haven't thought about what you want to do. Sometimes. You spend much time along by yourself. You know I'm usually just. My girl and me that's all. I don't worry about nobody else because nobody else worries about me. Tell me how old you are. Seventeen. You said you got. A good plan. Right. Yes. If I were again sometime but you know. We don't start. Fight. In the car will start fights just be fights between him and another guy. But if we fight him again won't be because they started it. You know. Calling his name. Car racing from. A runabout alike then we fight and we want to fight and so we fight. Join up with the club for protection. Not in. Hanging around the gallery I first moved around five years

ago. You know I. Got to know on Allagash you know. You just got to look where. You say you lived here for five years where you lived before that but I'm all about. You like living up here but it. Was the. Educational system is better. You know. But. Now living in the south and never having this trouble. You know. Colonnade called A Place in our lives together. With the school and there they was all right were notified and nothing. When I came up in you know you know some a kid my get out the way and they start calling you names in airplane and we mostly hang out with Spanish colored few white B.A.. You know our superiors. And never fight. And never hear of. Anybody fighting and when I was 12 years. So we didn't fight. You suffer just for an opinion are. You one of the things that give you the most pleasure in life.

Well I like to go to parties and gone picnics something. Go fish swim. In sports. Football. And. I do a lot of drawing in some town. I got to catch up on. You take our classes. Yeah I used to I want to award him 115. Best honors in the school. Ever consider doing more that. Pays well. And no but that's if you are. If you do it. Good. Pain. Does not study. You know you don't know it you don't make enough. Better to get a steady job. You know you pay every week. If you're the best artist in the school. Yeah but you know when I get out in the world I don't know. How early I'm 16 how big is your family. I've got. Three sisters and two brothers and. Your dad isn't no

divorce. The same. As your other work. Yes my mother works. Along if she were she'd be with him for about. 10 years 15. Years. You say insanity and we see you down in my 14 years. Yes you're a member of it all. I remember it a little bit. Comment isn't. Right For You. He wasn't. Doing what gives you the biggest kicks. Would you like to do best. Getting hands on the parties. For. When you get. Down why. On anything left on. The first. Yes most. Previous line. Twice a week. With easy to get. In depends the connections you then. I feel. Feel Alright. I mean with you know.

It's good to get things. Done on hand. You know Joy enough when you feel. When they get high like liquor. Different. Like you know what you're doing. Yeah you always know what to do. But you don't. Think. We like to drink. Whiskey. I was drinking when I was about 10 years old. You drink to get higher because everybody else is drinking and like. I'm going to feel. Like the fake. Depends in the morning. Can I eat it. We have to be in the like right. If you drink in the sun then you flake you out or something The trouble with the. Song and. It just goes down fades. Away think the biggest drug.

To me. People I will return to problems in. My bed is fun. Fighting and the risk of. Fame and I scare. Us. Make up my mind to go on the way we're going to go. On the street. Now I know. When. I don't I just it seems that I don't like how they act and think that some of them somebody just know and then they talk and I meet them as something of a person everything in the sun down or like how they dress. Dr. Richard a cloud is associate professor at the New York School of Social Work and co-author of a recently published study of delinquent gangs delinquency and opportunity. Boys in conflict gangs frequently attribute their delinquency to tensions between different ethnic and racial

groups. It is doubtful however whether these tensions are a cause of delinquency as such. This is not to say that tensions between races and ethnic groups do not contribute to delinquency but it is one thing to say that these tensions contribute to delinquency and quite another to say that they cause it. If youngsters are prone to engage in some delinquent at adaptation the existence of racial tensions may then structure the situation leading these predispositions toward delinquency to take the form of strife or conflict between ethnic groups. One very strong impression. That comes through from the interview those concerns the absence of aspirations of Horizons the low expectations regarding the future which these boys exhibit they seem to be apathetic lacking in ambition. Almost

shiftless in their orientation toward life. There is a great deal of hedonism in there ARE intention or as they call it an interest in the kick sometimes delinquency is attributed simply to such low expectations low aspirations. The notion being that these youngsters somehow have a scaped adequate socialization in the home in the school and in the church that they have somehow or another not been in Beeld with those virtues of ambition and persistence and diligence which normally aid young people in making a satisfactory adult occupational adjustment. My view of the situation is somewhat different. I tend to take the position that the apathy the apparent lack of ambition the apparent shiftlessness and the like can all be understood

as modes of adaptation to a situation of extremely limited opportunity. These boys like most American youngsters are exposed to prevailing American success themes themes in which an FSS upon occupational success. Are stressed. The difficulty is that having been led to look upward to consider the possibility of upward social mobility they are nevertheless confronted with a situation of extremely limited opportunity. Opportunity is limited for them both because of ethnic and racial discrimination but also because of stringent socio economic barriers. Thus they react to limited opportunity by in a sense denying interest in the very things which they secretly desire or

covet. The result is the facade of shiftlessness of apathy of hedonistic orientation. The only jobs which they see in prospect for themselves are poorly paid and study boring. They are the dirty jobs which every society must somehow or another get done. The same situation would not be encountered in a neighborhood in which criminal delinquent groups were prevalent where lucrative organize stable protected criminal careers are available. Then one will find ambition persistence diligence and other traits which we come to expect among young people where such a legitimate opportunities are not available. And where conventional opportunities are closed. There one expects the apathy the apparent lack of ambition the shiftlessness and the

Qik orientation to prevail. A second causative factor that is revealed by these interview concerns the problem of masculine identification in at least two of these interviews we note that the youngsters come from households in which a male father figure is absent. These are what we call female centered households. It may be an older sister and maybe a mother. It may be an aunt or a maternal grandmother whatever the case might be. The point is that the boy is subjected to control essentially by female figures in the absence of a stable strong male figure with home he may identify the youngsters sometimes turns to the gang as a way of experimenting with and developing an adequate. Sense of male

ness. What do you find such a heavy predominance of these female Senate House rules. The reasons for this are are several principle among which is however the. Differential employability of males and females in the in the Negro and Puerto Rican groups. Women find employment in the domestic services in the garment industries the needle trades and the like. These forms of occupation tend to be fairly stable such that the female can be a can be considered a reliable source of income for the maintenance of the family. Males on the other hand are subject much more to various types of ethnic and racial discrimination in employment. The last to be hired the first to be fired. Many forms of employment are not open to them that are open to white males and as a

result their occupational careers tend to be much less stable. That is true of the females as a result the female tends to become the one stable figure upon whom the family can depend economically and otherwise. Men who cannot support their families who cannot live up to the traditional roles of protector and provider and the like. Frequently develop so much shame about themselves and their capacity to perform these roles that they give up family life. They desert the the low social status of the male the instability of the male in the female centered household often leads women in these situations to define men as being essentially no good. As a young boy growing up in such a female centered household he is exposed to these definitions of manhood and to the extent that he makes a masculine identification

he in the natural course of things internalizes this degrading definition of men and thus a degrading definition of himself. And this sense of being no good being worthless being devalued can also be a source of the types of delinquent behavior that have been described in these interviews. One further point that I think should be made about the conflict gang is the apparent emphasis among these boys on the use of marijuana liquor and other forms of. Consumption which permit them to get high. Generally speaking conflict gangs gangs that are involved in street warfare bopping and the like do not encourage addiction. Though the reverse is commonly thought by many this is not to say that members of these groups individually or even the groups as such do not occasionally engage in a certain amount of social experiment

experimentation with drugs of one kind or another including heroin cocaine and the like. Its only to say that boys who become hooked or addicted frequently lose status in the group and may on some occasions become estranged from it. However there are many youngsters who participated successfully and very in a very rewarding way. Often during adolescence in conflict gangs who upon reaching young adulthood cannot somehow or another make the grade to a conventional adult status and they continue to find severe restrictions on opportunity. They may continue to feel with the types of opportunities open to them are so limited so dull so boring so on remunerative that they turn to drugs as a mode of escape from a world that otherwise seems organized to defeat them.

Next week the final program a coming of age a panorama of different attitudes and ideas from several American teenagers coming of age is produced for the National Educational Television and Radio Center by the Center for mass communication of Columbia University and distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters. This is Ben park. This is the end E.B. Radio Network.