A conversation with...; Bernard Haitink, part two

Resume a conversation with her not heightening hearers yards. Do you still perform composers such as daughter. No he was a composer but he was there and he has goes on from there and obviously I think the band has become the afterword ones and I think the Little by little that you learn about now back on his vest and this is interesting. Let's talk a little bit. You remember the performances. Yes when I was a boy. Or worse than that although it was earth very impressed by him and after the war he didn't call that anymore. It was a very sad Can I sing stupid thing from him because the people who banned him.

But that's what's the big what with x. So I only have a good impression of him than knowing the full record. Well it is not easy to 96 he said. Who were the jokes about the music making that is the 90s started because it is so different that many back then and it was after him. This is just black and lights. If none of that was a typical dissenter I don't know. Because of that I love live than before and after Nicky's were very much more straight as none other than that I think a metal bag the wire in a box with him is because he hoot and the orchestra in a way that has been surpassed because with all his rule and written it was an archer on the uppercase everybody played like one man. If you like the way you think.

I think he's good. People tell me that is the greatest kind was 26 when he gave all the performances or when he gave and he performed all the miles and isn't going to succeed in that Garnet's as it seemed to be that people go through yours. The reason why the merriment for much is because he has given him Saddam good ones in that moment tradition he has made many people as a man is an excellent and I think that is something which is better suited to Mahler and who many other composer we could mention. Perhaps those thick of those expressions will be very well. Of course he was a that's a great conductor but then you hear a recording of it because Mahler is mental back I don't know whether or not it is a recording from

1939 and then he was already sixty five and I think his greatest crime was when he was 30 40 45 and what we have here that supported already the series of The Complete Mahler's of a lot of control 90 and in I want to you know in that was 96 and here are all those records who were given people who worked with him downs girls speak about it and it was an article that he made from everything. He made a real gamble on actually what he wanted to abortion was whether or not only that what he wanted that the public would hear what what he was doing. I was told by a musician well that on the day that in his command of the orchestra he was a peer of Toscanini's he was barely in their absolute control of the orchestra. Yeah we're on an equal footing of course they were

diametrically opposed in their approach and their music that that. That's because slaves were both tyrants that would get an orchestra and everything they wanted the power but I think their work as a musician of 1960s and movement and as much much as a musician that kind of unity and the fight and I think both of those beneath that then know what the moments it will be much more difficult to do that only this early this was this terrible story and I think the miracle that is that I have to try to find their way and I think that they lived with the Earth you have to be the earth is the Nisei that go I think a very good example in this way after the war he was a musician with his musicians and those that were

within those who are the more the media as well as a very integrated in the U.S. or the as you say who first look at the square and it was written the one for those who like to those of you couldn't write it will be the first out of no if you're with your guys with two Afghans of my own music so that your god isn't any of the six. And here it is united and revenue Matthew and it's very interesting to compare that with the riots the circle has because 70 years of its own conduct as every conductor has with his special things is all marketing because one conductor is right and when there is a little bit earlier it was and it was not in this way or that new and

and and there's always an opportunity to really examine all the basic you know at this it's very interesting that he noted that so many things so I don't think you have to do with so many things of your own that you want to take a new word you know that you know the conductor or how do you go to prepare that with the orchestra. Which is when I got the news girth of the phone that I really like like a like a like a Texan with eyes who I read what they can be evidently of I just read it over a few times and then I go start to study that. All right you're looking now at the hearing in the mind in the year.

Yes it isn't that easy at all and I don't want to return to the everything that I am very difficult and very lucky that the people whether it is a slow person is in the bigs leagues and leagues and it will be there for them to start the new and so you get the picture then and then to further as a continuance. And you see that you have that nothing that you have other than a runway or recruitment and it's quite aware that with it. On the news wars which are submitted to you you find that a lot of those just isn't real it was where the man doesn't doesn't know there's grass. Well I have to make my choice. And here again is the thought has is a very lucky consider that he had because he's going to use it as a little bit and you know what it was really no other than I mean of course you guys because who are we that includes either some confusion out of the area in the concert

because those days is here in Chicago all their lives with included it with yours of the day this brother was used to live in or the hoodlums were in the little wares we can or is getting near and very likely it was a man Id their press the local manager and perhaps you have made a mistake and in our current events because the person was I think is your government at least and it's not a neo symphony. A little nervous as there's no tickets. You must be one other program and you can't play for all these are people in the room that we do when you meet its owners and then the order is kind of which are very good people and they do the kettledrums or it for me but I'm very

sad that they don't present me with the you mention the crabbers and this brings to mind another question. In looking over some information about the orchestra I find that you have listed two concert masters and you explain the significance of this. Yes that has that this crevasse when crevasse came as a beacon from the Hague and there were two leaders all of the very things that also as you have or most have in their accustomed and I was as I said I'd like to but there were only one and I get also the same as I had in The Hague. So that's the reason you have your direction. And I would be honored to be there who might be the case then for half the time yes. One man is acting as concert master and is the other outcomes or dies it as was orderly opportunity than any of the solo work with which

is that this is that and let him is the man who like he plays how the guns were and he's not glad we haven't another person sort of had it all. What about such a man as BB us or you are yourself not a man or is he does the great god does he also enjoy this kind of arrangement that enables him to earth who can ignore the ethical. This I think is a good arrangement because so many of these people are great soul artists. They're great and some of the players. But this gives them the opportunity to enjoy the best of both worlds when it is a wonderful thing. Yes and they have the opportunity also to get new people in who can learn this guy from the older people and sort of tradition as as one woman told them I think that's very important. The condition of playing you know the Netherlands.

I found in my encyclopedia lies neither is roughly the size of our state of Maryland and the union and they thought it was there. It is this is something that is one of the many who really there are many because they have not been good enough musicians in these organs or that many of the current people nor because of who or do something very well but they should go through because no goo to have workers as because of war because that is their present life and the myth that we need 6 of us because that just because of who we are as the men that are the men of leg. But still I should like you who we have not you know it's a little you have one American one. There's a section. First we had a ball who's now in the ranges and has merits the little one

of her up players an hour after the successor is doing breaks as you're both musician. They're very glad to have that. Don't think I don't like that than it was at the front of the snow I should like to have that's people as well I understand your point this is in a very real sense the National Orchestra of the note has been and has reason you know deal with it and be desirable if it were were dodging answers in that. But this has merit in that he's even very much at home and home. Well I think it will take prisoners and in a lot of in this country we define major orchestras and that is the Symphony Orchestra League major orchestra is one with an annual budget of over $500000 and as I look at this long list of orchestras in the

Netherlands the the Hague Philharmonic. Or do you call that there is here and your reasons are just other than your recommendation. The builders in that as you know Israeli as has a 3 for president and those who belong to a rather major land yesterday in the city and have no nerves up to they have to go in and the other offices have succeeded so well for them in the Hague and all that. We're going to have states and cities in what is the the size of these orchestras do they run to about 80 players arriving on this one hundred and fourteen and I was on the ice you know they say in Oregon has I think an earth than her and I was going through and that is all have I think 80 75 there haven't you. The the piper piece that will be playing

on this to hear that you are leaving me as a second is to is a work which really ought to be in the newest country these delightful his very brief very very very succinct they say so much is a little thought. Yes yes that's true it is has an experiencer and I think that one of the best things he has written and her very well as you say very recently concentrated only or your previous two are you. You do the Dutch conductor do the army that entre Bowser years old. I think the work of Mr. or will he has and this or you can get a piece of bad things is trending and he can do you have. And he hall at all is there any audience of interest in the Netherlands in the American voices were the same as was the Dutch people or lie or lie that heard that there is yes

we have and I missed it very literate who can bowl well and you were going to you have her as a place called Clinton or Harriers and. And as you know if you're interacting as or if you pay them as they are in her and was as old as Wharton Earl Brown and Milly's or the other. Yes and I know that in all of Europe look all the other ones that you know that you're in the know there are you know they're well milking her the piece but I can't remember the name of the North American League nor some of the hunger out of the Earth ridden movie you know and it will be interesting to move for example in the k's such as Copeland has here is

just well a part of our musical scene for so long you know that we take anything likable for granted and it will be interesting to know which of his words been more popular. So there is a third simple yes you know yes. The didn't pay that. It is radio stations and musical and of course pieces like either he's very very aware of the conduct of the author in the course of the early years of the mill and the trouble is I did look at the new one and gurgles where the trouble is that when you're looking at it every day you have to work using it every day and other trainers who can even or who don't have the time given who didn't die or him and then I don't know how to serve it is well known in the gotten

to measurement of this in the simple nervous not at the moment as we can do when there are really very mixed and we'll have to do with really at least how the near horizon. You are committing suicide. How do you feel about it was it was because of the unity is because anything that is of course. Doesn't the Hearns a very big difference but not so much as people say anything new to today's news that is dramatic another another somewhat amusing is sometimes as dramatic or as an order. But of course you have that the hook of that because if it has to come along you're saying a story that two of the bad ones are there in the better in this new work with soldiers. You have mentioned this that there is a thing of leading others struck the hands on when you

have solos with your orchestra. How do you approach the problem of the meeting of the Moonies. Well he had a gas manager who was in and how bad it was or was this much more pleasure because two players and then you play the men that are scarred that you learned early on. It has now moved to impose whose light is your only I mean it from the minute we got instances he hasn't been grossly Sort of us has such a good idea about it that these also went there for the viewer so you have to go in until the end of that. And so was not the group that has been involved with and because he will not follow you because in the group so leave it to me. In either case you treat the man as you would guess he has a GED and they're going to use it out of that hurt as I think another

thing to hear your own idea of his native handle but the idea of her as you invites other men to listen to him and try to go with him then. Then you meet him sort of he doesn't see that. How do you feel about recording you locally. That depends on the way the right to ignore them. And there's very quiet looking the course is always the same illusion. Mystical it is ingratitude. In the beginning it was perhaps the death well but now we have and then the team together and the Jews exactly know what we want from each other and then go on to do records five bars of perfect music and then stop and start again. And then the news rather than the title you have to do that for 20 minutes and then we will see what what has happened for example in the south with

those of you if you notice you know it goes with what God's will that is in that minute who get to know her actions and all that was on the floor the music was there and they're all there happens by wasn't well with a little you know when I hate recordings that is when you have to do it over and over again that you are. Room is not communicable. Then I hate it when you make a recording like a simple forms. After a few gifts of growth and when you go along with them when you record in your home you see the orchestra on stage as you know who are mostly nuts we have done this a few gardens with mostly resident in the hole in the middle of the whole work of art that was the destination with whom and now we will arrange the chorus or the will of the Lord that we have the courage.

The women courage was just this period in Iraq after the US hear rhetoric and it's not political or at most a couple of those behind the cuss words that the birth occurs once in the States very far away and think that they are very very well and I think really very far away from coming back into the very scene again there is no place for them to vary and thinking of what we know refer to the classical composers of the what is in the end of the others and then the zero as it is in the Schoenberg Baird and Newman and all sorts of the bells you played with the this group. Well we have. And there you have it again he's under a lot of us and of course that is your burden and author and the truth I'm barren and higher than the

here as there are very important in the for the new work of an article or you know it's sort of starting point and knew how you feel about the letter they were instantly you know you have to say it was as though he was really is is well I think we're into this is worthy of that there really is this is a different kind and there the better the difference and that's the thing that has been it's been I mean the very thing that the people always ask me about whether or not it will that I get to be a specialist I think there's a danger in this profession to only look like there's a famous kook when he only is he feels about his chicken. Also in the French music and I think

because they can sing it is business in this profession is the very heavy of music statement you that made you perform more modern music than in New York where I was and I have another Hedley there's this statement that is the only thing I'm not happy this because I'm not sure it is true and that's me when I saw them sitting about the orchestra because we invite people as an advantage and as MUA who's very famous a lot of you are looking at a music on the back of that if you do that when workers go there and there was a bottleneck of and I was not happy I'm not sure if I have said this because in order to try to do new music and. Will and let her have it was as if it was evil so you do that quite a lot. That's true and it should be said that American audiences are no different from Dutch audiences in their attitude toward modern music and there is a core of people

who can be comfortable and to turn out and hear the very latest whether they understand it whether actually they really enjoy it I don't I don't know whether anybody knows but it is the thing to do therefore they do it. But the low really where the meat and potatoes of the current a given business in this country remains that great classic and romantic literature and everybody knows and apparently loves and I assume this is true all the more. Yes and that's the form with it we have to create and then return it to the music there's newer ideas of when you perform in a seasoned country with him her and one with someone who are acceptable to her already very lucky because you have already something because you haven't. In terms of the mic and I think we have to do with and with very little to do with them as they have

developed an ear for the music. That's because the ear of the public in general is limited to certain ideas or it live in a hurry and they realize that this is this can be extended and that they can raise their own horizon here. Listen there's a reason and there's our new series of not a musically. Try to. Given that no they don't I would do what we get in the introductory note and then the whole than and the whole and I think really people are coming in and they hear the tapes of the works that are at home they're going to sleep and that have to stimulate interest and understanding of the music. I'm one of them and if there's a composer can that there's such as here and there's Louise in the years that. He brings the conduct not only is the new music that he is or absorbed it with those of then the basic whether there is a bigger the

division has is that the people who are not happy with him that he is and he made it as an attitude and I think it is very good to have in the man that is in the musical The You're merely the life and being on the earth where it is because he created the earth. No business of touring is a girly difficult. No it is not. Or there is nothing I should and would like to do as every season is referred to as with ones in Israel to make a coup or worry that one as it happens we organise exams for me and every day or whether the INS is interesting to you to your more frequently than those on the continent. Well the two are quite a lot but the crowd who will have been happy medium between our appearances on Absalom

and are doing so every of the Likud who at least really and the makers more to do with them than rooms are in which I think we are at it when you're dead. As with most interesting discussion there are those of us who are grateful for their lives. I'm most interested to hear your experiences really as good or as good as they get here again. This has been a conversation with Bernard hyping the brilliant young permanent conductor of the Amsterdam concert to give our orchestra and the principal conductor of the London Philharmonic Orchestra participating where Aaron Parsons program annotator for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and professor and chairman of the department of theory and composition of Northwestern University's School of Music and Georgetown. Program director of Zenith radio corporation's radio station WABE

at AM. This program was distributed by national educational radio. This is the National Education already on network.